Scrapbookpages Blog

May 8, 2010

Dachau crematorium — “laid out with deliberate efficiency as if it was an abattoir”

Filed under: Dachau, Germany, Holocaust, World War II — Tags: , , , , — furtherglory @ 9:39 am

I learned a new word today, as I was searching wordpress blogs: abattoir.  I looked up the definition on google and learned that it means “a building where animals are butchered” or “a slaughterhouse.”  The word abattoir was used on this blog by someone who had just recently visited the Dachau Memorial Site.  Here is the full quote from the blog:

“Not many of the original barracks remain but the gas chamber and crematorium are very well preserved. Walking through the holding room, to the showers and then through to the crematorium is eerie – the place is laid out with deliberate efficiency as if it was an abattoir. It is hard to understand how one human being can treat another like cattle.”

Oooh, that’s cold! (as the woman on the Progressive insurance TV ad would say)

Brent, the guy who wrote the blog post, got the impression that the Nazis were “deceitful” because they put a sign that says “Brausebad” over the gas chamber, and a sign that says “Arbeit Macht Frei” over the entrance gate.  Brent thinks that the Nazis sold Dachau to the public as a “work and re-education camp” but after the war, the “true purpose” of Dachau became known. He got that right!  The “true purpose” of Dachau was not known until the American liberators arrived on April 29, 1945 and Albert Guérisse, a British SOE agent, escorted the soldiers to the gas chambers (plural).  It was the British BBC that first told the world about the gas chambers in June 1942, long before the Dachau gas chamber was built in 1943.

The Baracke X building where the gas chambers are located at Dachau, May 2007

The alleged homicical gas chamber at Dachau is located in Baracke X, the building shown in the photo above; it is on the far left behind the white table. The morgue where the bodies were stored is on the right, next to the gas chamber, and the next room to the right is the oven room.  You can see that the building was “laid out with deliberately efficiency” like an “abattoir.”

But what about the first photo of the Dachau gas chamber, taken by T/4 Sidney Blau, that was shown to the public a few days after Dachau was surrendered to the Americans?  The door that is shown in the photo below is located at the far end of the Baracke X building, so far away from the ovens that it cannot be shown in the same photo without using a wide angle lens.

Photo of Dachau gas chamber, April 30, 1945

The caption, which the US Army put on this photo, is as follows:

“Gas chambers (plural), conveniently located to the crematory, are examined by a soldier of the U.S. Seventh Army. These chambers were used by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau concentration camp.”

Note the word “Gaszeit” which means “Gas time,” on the door.  This shows that the Nazis weren’t deceitful at all.  The prisoners could very clearly see that this was a Gaskammer, which is the German word for a room where Zyklon-B poison gas was used.

There was no “deliberate efficiency” about the location of the Gaskammer shown in the photo above.  It was as far away as it could get from the ovens.  But there was proof of the German reputation for neatness and order; the prisoners had to take off their clothes and hang them up on hangers, as shown in the photo below, taken outside the Baracke X building.

Prisoners clothing hung up outside “die Gaskammern,” April 30, 1945

The south end of the Baracke X building at Dachau, May 2001

The photo above shows the spot where the clothing was hung up at Dachau when the American soldiers arrived on April 29, 1945.  The Americans assumed that the prisoners had been forced to hang up their clothes before going into one of the four rooms with the word “Gaszeit” on the door.

Door into Gaskammer is now bolted to another door

The photo above shows the famous door that was shown to the world as a door into a gas chamber where prisoners were gassed.  It has been bolted to another door so that visitors cannot pose in front of it.   The photo below shows a sign over the four doors into the disinfection chambers at Dachau.  In spite of this sign, some tour guides still tell visitors that the prisoners had to take off their clothes and hang them on hangers before entering these chambers to be killed with Zyklon-B.

Sign over “die Gaskammern” at Dachau, May 2003

Note the black pipe that is to the left of the sign in the photo above.  The “deliberately efficient” Nazis would put an unopened can of Zyklon-B gas pellets into this pipe and the can would automatically be opened and emptied into a wire basket; then hot air would be blown over the pellets to activate the gas. After the clothes had been disinfected, the pellets would be retrieved from the wire basket and put back into the can, to be returned to the manufacturer to be recycled.

DEGESH machine used to put poison gas into disinfection chambers

Prisoner clothing was hung on bar inside the Gaskammer

The photos above show the “deliberate efficiency” with which the Nazis disinfected the prisoner clothing at Dachau in an attempt to stop a typhus epidemic, which killed half of the prisoners who died at Dachau. The “true purpose” of Dachau was to imprison people like British SOE agent Albert Guérisse, who was an illegal combatant during World War II, helping the French Resistance which was fighting in violation of the Armistice that the French had signed.

19 Comments

  1. The Nazis and SS shared their food, medicine and much more with the Jews—even until the very last days of the war! The misery and deaths of thousands in many of the camps at the end of the war were the Allies’ own doing. Mass starvation of Germany had been one of the principal objects of British, and later American, strategy from the beginning—and amazingly, Jews died as well. The victors have nothing to be proud of. If Americans really care about finding “mass murderers,” they should look at themselves in the mirror. Ultimately, all that holocaust propaganda and “scholarship” really proves is that when Hitler tried to expel Jews from Germany forever, he certainly had the right idea. The Jews were the ultimate victors of World War 2—but even more stunning is the fact that they also succeeded in portraying themselves as the greatest victims who ever existed.

    The monumental blindness and stupidity, unmatched barbarism and sadism of America and Britain nearly brought a new Dark Age upon a world dominated, not by them, but by the Soviet Union and communism, Although the Nazis and fascists lost the war—their heroic struggle with hardly any resources against overwhelming odds allowed western civilization to survive. After 1945, it was the atomic bomb, beyond everything else, which allowed the west to survive—but before that, it was Adolf HITLER who saved us.

    Even if the holocaust story were true, the war crimes and atrocities committed by the US and Britain were far worse. The US and Britain as a matter of thoughtfully crafted “strategy,” initiated the mass murder of huge masses of totally innocent women, children and babies by deliberately r-o-as-t-i-n-g them to death—and continued these sadistic and cowardly crimes long after there ceased to be any danger to the US or Britain. If the Nazis had murdered people in gas chambers, that would have been humane by comparison. In fact, however, Nazi gassings never happened! The Nazis were the “Good Guys.” The anti-Nazis, especially the Americans, were the ”Bad Guys”—and they still are. Holocaust propaganda is the continuation of anti-Nazi lunacy driven by the most rabidly racist and destructive people on the planet.

    Friedrich Paul Berg
    Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
    Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

    Comment by Friedrich Paul Berg — June 19, 2010 @ 11:46 am

  2. While the quote from Jack Taylor does not indicate he was working on the ovens itself, the only reasonable interpretation of his quote (combined with JC Pressac’s comments)is that those ovens were not operational yet. As having tiles on the floor would not markedly increase operational capacity. To install that oven to an existing chimney would need to rip up the floor anyway to install under the floor flues.

    As for Marcus J Smith, all kinds of nonsense is written by “liberators”, this is more of the same. The furnaces (if they had been built) could only run with a coke supply. Practice was to bury the dead in common trench graves everywhere else.

    Aive Neary or Neave Airey or whoever it was the noble IRA knocked off, also said that defendants were burned at Dachau, now an SS prisoner camp. This is almost certainly wrong and simply a misguided literary device. Irving’s the last battle gives the details of where they were cremated, either Nuremberg or München

    Comment by littlegreyrabbit — May 15, 2010 @ 6:55 pm

  3. 1. From your own site you have Jack Taylor building parts of the Topf ovens: “After Lt. Jack Taylor arrived at the Mauthausen camp on April 1, 1945, he was put to work “setting tile in the new crematorium,” according to his trial testimony.” I think JC Pressac says there is some confusion if this oven was ever used.

    2. “Who investigated in May 1945 and described bins but not their function? ”
    The French army sent an investigative team. I have their report somewhere, their drawings clearly showed the bins, but they did not connect them with introduction of Zyklon B. If we compare with Majdanek, the room after the shower has a hot air blower outsite with vents going in to dry prisoners. It is possible that in Dachua the Germans just used the same shower room for drying prisoners.

    3. Regards the old crematorium at Dachau. The plans I saw for it were a more substantial building than the depicted shed. Curiously JC Pressac sotto voce suggests the ovens may have been relocated after the war on page 95 of his book on Auschwitz
    “As for the Topf furnace, it could be than it had been dismantled, then reconstructed after the war using the metal parts found in the camp (as was the case with two double-muffle furnaces in Auschwitz Krematorium I) and since no drawings were available it was rebuilt from memory, with some of the components being arranged differently from how they were originally. ”

    4. General Unrein was an SS prisoner at Dachau and then army figure in West Germany. In 1960 he came under strong criticism for saying the New Crematorium and Gas Chambers had been constructed by the Americans after liberation (I assume he means the inside of the building). This has claim has been repeated by various ex-prisoners and occassionaly enters Dachau town politics etc. See Harold Marcuse’s book on Dachau for further details.
    A sample of this kind of claim can be found here from K. J. Fischer
    http://www.vho.org/D/gdvd_4/I2.html

    I tend towards this, but still have reservations. If you look at George Stevens footage the most he shows is a dark interior of the oven room where all that is visible is a naked flame – very arty for sure.

    I also take notice of Franz Blaha’s original statement where he said the crematorium was located behind the SS barracks – some distance away.

    However, my main reason is the strong similarity between the Dachau design of ovens and flues and the Majdanek design. The small amount of documentation that exists links the two as well.

    I am certain that the Majdanek New Crematorium was built rapidly by the Soviets after liberation. If you click on my “littlegreyrabbit” account name you will be taken to a blog where you can see two posts of Majdanek that go through why.

    And since Majdanek is so similar to the Dachau layout, what applies for the one, presumably applies to the other

    Comment by littlegreyrabbit — May 12, 2010 @ 1:49 am

    • 1. Lt. Cmdr. Jack Taylor was working on the floor of the oven room, not on the ovens; he was allegedly setting tile. I have a photo of the tile on this page of my web site:
      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/Mauthausen04.html

      2. I mentioned the French drawings on this page of my web site: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/GasChamber/UndressingRoom.html

      The photo on that page was taken in 2007; in 2003 when I visited Dachau, new information had just been put up on the wall of the undressing room. I read everything on the undressing room wall in 2003, and I don’t remember reading anything about a drawing that showed the bins. That would have immediately attracted my attention. I remember that the drawings showed the “engineer’s room” behind the west wall of the gas chamber. In 1945, the bins (if they were there) were hidden behind a wooden screen. I don’t think that the French investigators went behind the screen.

      3. There is a photo of the old crematorium taken in 1945 a few days after the camp was liberated. The crematorium looks just like it does now.

      I read the book on Dachau by Harold Marcuse and I recall that he mentioned that he interviewed a former SS prisoner in the War Crimes Enclosure No. 1 at Dachau. He said that this SS man told him that the Baracke X building was built after the camp was liberated. I think the building was modified, but not newly built, after the camp was liberated. Germany is still occupied by American and British troops, so no one in Germany is going to say that Americans modified Baracke X.

      I saw some color footage of the liberation of Dachau and there was a flame inside the crematorium; it looked like the flame was inside one of the ovens that had the door open. The American liberators did burn the bodies of the SS soldiers who were killed at Dachau, so the ovens were used in the first couple of days after the liberation. However, the black and white film of Dachau, taken after the liberation, shows body parts inside one of the ovens. I think this photo was staged because the ovens had not been used since October because they had run out of coal.

      Regarding Majdanek, the Germans allegedly burned down the crematorium at Majdanek in order to burn the bodies of prisoners that the Germans allegedly killed on the day of liberation. These prisoners were allegedly brought from the Gestapo prison in Majdanek and killed at the camp. The Soviets rebuilt the crematorium, allegedly according to the original blueprints, and they included a gas chamber which they allege was in the building. The Soviets have never released these blueprints which they allegedly found. I think that the gas chamber in the original crematorium was a shower room, just like the shower rooms that were always included in the crematoria so that the workers could shower after handling the dead bodies.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 12, 2010 @ 8:03 am

      • As far as Majdanek, if you don’t wish to inform yourself regarding the state at liberation and the state of the flues and oven interiors today, I certainly don’t want to force you.
        There are a number of blueprints that have been presented regarding Majdanek. The first was in around 1947 from Yugoslavia which bundled the plans for Dachau Barrack X, Majdanek crematorium and a proposed facility in Belgrade (not built by Kori). Hence you can not separate “new crematorium Dachau” from “new crematorium Majdanek”. If one falls over the other must.

        As regards SS bodies being burnt in the crematorium – to the best of my understanding all bodies prisoners and otherwise were buried in mass graves in a nearby cemetery. There was also an unfounded rumour in some books that states that Goering et al were also burnt at Dachau when in reality they were cremated in Munich (IIRC).

        As for Jack Taylor he states (from your own website) “We knew that the only thing that kept the number of violent deaths down was the fact that the crematorium couldn’t take care of any more. And we knew that as soon as we finished, the rate would accelerate tremendously because it was a more efficient oven.”
        And Pressac in his book on Auschwitz states on page 110 regarding Mauthausen double Topf ovens.
        “It would appear that they were left in storage for over a year before the furnace was actually built in July 1944. It did not enter service until April 1945, and even then was used very little, or according to some sources not at all”

        As I said, I couldnt confirm that the ovens connected with the chimney stack in another room. As the chimney would have predated the ovens, it must have had another function. As the room where this chimney is, is locked and sticking a camera with flash into various openings in the ovens failed to show any evidence of a connection with flues, there is not much further I can take this, beyond saying what Pressac said: that the Topf ovens were either not used at all or not used very much. I couldnt definitively say it didnt connect either.

        On the other hand the single oven at Mauthausen as a very obvious flue and a very dirty, ashy chimney oven and flue interior

        Comment by littlegreyrabbit — May 12, 2010 @ 6:26 pm

        • There was another crematory oven at Mauthausen. On this page of my web site, I show a photo of the spot where the oven was removed: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Mauthausen/Gas%20Chamber/ExecutionRoom.html

          The quote from Jack Taylor does not indicate that he was working on the oven itself.

          Regarding the burning of bodies in the ovens at Dachau after the liberation, here is a quote from my web site:

          According to Marcus J. Smith, a U.S. Army doctor, who wrote a book called “The Harrowing of Hell” about the days immediately following the liberation of the camp, the ovens at Dachau were used by the American military to cremate the bodies found in the camp, including the bodies of some of the Waffen-SS soldiers who were killed when the camp was liberated.

          Smith wrote that, around May 6, 1945, the disposal of the bodies in the camp began:

          “It is time to dispose of the bodies. Some are carried to the gravel pits. Then the furnaces of the crematorium are stoked and reignited. By increasing the work day for the operators from four to ten hours, 710 corpses are cremated in the next four days. Too slow! A top-level decision is made to bury the dead.”

          The above quote is from this page of my web site: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/KZDachau/CrematoriaArea/NewCrematorium04.html

          The page cited above has photos of the ovens at Dachau. They look like they were not used very much.

          The book “Justice at Nuremberg” mentions that the bodies of the war criminals who were convicted and executed by the Nuremberg IMT were burned at Dachau.

          Comment by furtherglory — May 12, 2010 @ 10:33 pm

  4. Brent wrote that the gas chamber at Dachau “was specifically designed for that purpose…” The Baracke X building was designed in 1942; the Nazis started sending all the Jews to the East, starting in February 1942. By the time that the building was completed in 1943, there were no Jewish prisoners at Dachau. After the camps in the East were closed, the Jewish survivors were brought back to Germany, but they were sent to the sub-camps to work in factories, not to the main Dachau camp. There was no one available to be gassed at Dachau, until the last couple of weeks when the Jews in the sub camps were brought to the main camp, but by then there was a typhus epidemic in the main camp and no need to gas anyone.

    The first camp that was discovered by American troops was Ohrdruf, on April 4, 1945. So the Germans had 25 days to blow up the gas chamber at Dachau to destroy the evidence. But they didn’t. They left the gas chamber, disguised as a “shower bath” for the Americans to find, along with the undressing room, furnished with soap and towels, and the waiting room. So it is very strange that there were three rooms that were completely unused, and the deception about the gas chamber was continued to the end.

    Comment by furtherglory — May 11, 2010 @ 12:08 pm

  5. You focus on the fumigation chambers but largely ignore the “alleged” homicidal gas chamber also located in the barracks. The fumigation chambers were indeed designed for and used to treat prisoner clothing but it is quite apparent that homicidal gas chamber was not.

    The homicidal gas chamber is the one marked with “Brausebad” (Shower baths).

    It was apparently never used for mass murder but was specifically designed for that purpose with smaller groups and individuals possibly being murdered there (according to the website you mentioned at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/GasChamber/UndressingRoom.html.)

    The website states that the homicidal gas chamber leads into the mortuary room next to the oven room (http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/GasChamber/interior01.html). This is consistent with my memory of the layout and why it does indeed remind me of an abattoir.

    To me, the purpose of design of the homicidal gas chamber is clear regardless of whether or not it was ultimately used for mass murder.

    If you haven’t already, I suggest that you travel to Dachau and experience standing inside of the “shower bath” for yourself.

    Comment by Brent — May 9, 2010 @ 3:55 am

    • Scrapbookpages.com is my own web site; when I put up my web site in 1998, it was the first and only web site about Dachau in the Yahoo search engine. (Google didn’t exist yet in 1998.) I have been to Dachau several times and I have examined the “shower bath” for a long time.

      The text on the wall of the undressing room was put there in 2003 at the time that a portable sign in the “shower bath” was removed. This sign said in 5 languages that the gas chamber was never used. In 2003, the museum was enlarged and completely changed.

      Since 1997 when I first visited Dachau, there has been a great proliferation of information signs at the Memorial site and many changes in the exhibits in the museum. All of these changes and additions have portrayed Dachau as more and more horrible. The tour guides are now telling more horrific stories about Dachau. The audio guides have former prisoners telling about Dachau; they are Jewish prisoners who were brought to Dachau from Auschwitz in the last weeks before Dachau was liberated. The museum now sells a different history book, than the original one that was sold in 1997. In other words, the story of what happened at Dachau is constantly changing and getting far worse. The history of Dachau, as told at the Memorial site, is not at all objective.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 9, 2010 @ 7:29 am

  6. As regards trials in Germany. The situation as I see it, provided you are not advocating return of the Nazi party or use their symobolism, do not explicitly vilifying any ethnicity and avoid any blanket statements like “The Holocaust is a myth”, you are free to dispute pretty much anything on the web and a lot in a book. Probably steering clear of Auschwitz would be a good idea, but some German newspaper editor got away with saying the Krematoria of Birkenau were non-functional.

    The most recent case of a trial for Holocaust denial was someone who walked into court and said “I don’t believe in the Holocaust, now try me”

    Of course, having a law on a book even if it is not enforced can inhibit debate.

    You said recently that you believe the Dachau shower room was a regular shower room, do you know if there is a boiler anywhere in the building that supplied hot water to the shower room?
    You also said the first photo of the shower room/gas chamber showed it full of coffins. Do you have that photo on your website or a URL for it, or do you remember it from a book?
    And ditto the gas chamber/shower in Mauthausen that was full of corpses.

    Comment by littlegreyrabbit — May 8, 2010 @ 7:13 pm

    • In 1999, Frederick Töben, a citizen of Australia, walked into the office of a German prosecutor and tried to engage him in a discussion of the Holocaust denial law. He was arrested and put in prison for seven months before he was released after payment of a fine. Is this the case that you are referring to?

      Regarding the Dachau gas chamber, there is a wide hallway that runs behind all the rooms in Baracke X; it was called “the engineer’s room” in the film that was shown at Nuremberg. No one is allowed in that part of the building, so I don’t know if there is a boiler to heat the water for the shower room.

      The photo that shows coffins in the gas chamber at Dachau is on this page of my web site: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/GasChamber/interior00.html

      I saw another photo, in color, that was taken of the gas chamber by one of the soldiers who was brought to see the camp. This photo shows more clearly that the things that are piled up are wooden coffins. I could not get permission to use the color photo on my web site. The photo on my web site is in the public domain.

      I saw the photo of the Mauthausen gas chamber with corpses in it in a book somewhere, but I don’t remember which book.

      The staff members at the Dachau Memorial site are always willing to answer questions in e-mail, except they refused to answer the question about when the wooden screen in front of the bins on the outside wall was removed. There are no photos, that I have ever seen, which show the Baracke X wall without the bins. There are no photos of the building taken just after it was built. This is unusual because the Germans had the best cameras in the world and they took photos of everything. It is pretty obvious that the bins were added after the building was built, but when and by whom?

      I have a page of eye-witness descriptions of the gas chamber at this URL: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/gaschamber/descriptions.html

      Not one person that saw the gas chamber immediately after the camp was liberated mentioned the bins on the outside wall. These witnesses were American soldiers who were escorted to the gas chamber building by the prisoners, but none of the prisoners told the soldiers to look at the bins.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 8, 2010 @ 7:53 pm

      • The HD case was Kevin Käther – a google search will bring up the details. In short 20 months prison but released on probation (ie if he speaks up again he goes to prison).

        Re: rooms you can’t enter. As you probably aware the two topf ovens that the American POW says he helped built in April 1945 are supposed to connect to a chimney stack to the front and to the left of the ovens by flues under the floor. I wasnt either able to confirm or deny those flues when I visited – but the room where the chimney stack was located had a locked door.

        I also have found Dachau helpful inthe past. Re: the bins, if the liberators did insert them, they forgot to tell the investigators in May 1945 of their purpose as they describe the bins but can’t given them a function.

        I still hold out the possibility that General Unrein was correct. I have seen plans for the old crematorium at Dachau, assuming it was built to these plans, then the ovens of the old crematorium were moved from somewhere else to their present location. The plans show a much larger building with rooms for laying out bodies etc.

        Comment by littlegreyrabbit — May 10, 2010 @ 2:24 am

        • Thanks for all this information. I was not aware of the Kevin Käther case, but I looked it up and I will include it in my post today.

          What American POW says that he helped to build topf ovens in April 1945?

          Who investigated in May 1945 and described bins but not their function?

          When I visited Dachau in 2007, I noticed what looks like an interior chimney in the corner where the east wall joins the south wall in the gas chamber, disguised as a shower room. This structure which is built into the wall is about 6 inches deep and 12 inches wide. When the Americans arrived in April 1945, there was a wooden screen around the wall where the bins are now and according to the Army Report, there was a compressor behind the screen. If this is true, then the compressor had to be connected to something inside the building. It might have been connected by a pipe that went under the Baracke X building and then went through what looks like a chimney inside the gas chamber. The ceiling in the gas chamber looks like it is a dropped ceiling that was installed after the building was originally built. The pipe from the compressor probably went up to the origianl 10-foot ceiling and then continued on to its source.

          There is a photo of the old crematorium, taken in 1946 by an American soldier on this web site:
          http://www.thirdreichruins.com/dachau.htm

          What did General Unrein say that you think might be correct?

          Comment by furtherglory — May 10, 2010 @ 10:28 am

  7. Sorry for the multiple comments, but I don’t know if Wilson’s 14 points strictly meant that all members of one group should be allowed to be admitted into the country of their ethnic origin. He wanted to destroy the empires that brought about WW One in the first place, or more strictly, the German and Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. Hence he advocated for ‘self-determination of peoples’. What that meant on paper, is controversial since that would mean border disputes forever. However, I can’t prove or disprove exactly what it meant. I doubt he wanted ethnic groups to be separated into distinct nations, with concommitant expulsion of members of other ethnic groups.

    Maybe fortunately, Wilson developed a medical condition late during the war which rendered him unable to govern further.

    Comment by paolos — May 8, 2010 @ 11:43 am

    • Here is Wilson’s Point #5: “V. A free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the Government whose title is to be determined.”

      Note that the “interests of the population” should be considered. The new country of Czechoslovakia was made up of 6 million Czechs and 2 million Slovaks, and 3 million Germans. The Germans in the Sudetenland had been living there since the 1500s; they had come from Austria. The Sudetenland is a horseshoe-shaped piece of land that is at the base of the Sudeten mountains. The Sudeten mountain range provides natural protection for the people living on both sides of it. In spite of the fact that the Germans in the Sudetenland wanted to be citizens of Germany, their land was put inside Czechoslovakia in order to provide protection from German invasion for the Czechs. Hitler claimed that the rights of the Sudeten Germans were being violated by the Czechs. That’s why he demanded that Wilson’s 14 points, on which the Armistice was based, should be followed. When an Armistice is violated, it means that the war can start up again. America had not signed the Armistice because it included the League of Nations which America did not want to join. So the Munich Pact was signed by Germany, France, Italy and the UK. The Czechs were not allowed at the Munich Conference and they had no say in it, since this concerned the Versailles Peace Treaty, which the Czechs were not part of.

      By the time that Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, it only consisted of the states of Bohemia and Moravia because the Slovaks had already broken off and started their own country; the Slovaks were allies with Germany. Bohemia had previously been part of the German First Reich. I am not sure, but Moravia might have also been in the First Reich.

      The Czech president had allowed the Soviet Union to put an air base in what was left of Czechoslovakia, so that Soviet planes were only 5 minutes away from Germany. It was like the Cuban missile crisis.

      Hitler demanded that the Czech president should resign and he did. Then what is now the Czech Republic was made into a protectorate of Germany. The Czechs set up a government of exile in London. Poland took the land where 250,000 Poles lived and Hungary took the land where 500,000 Hungarians lived.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 8, 2010 @ 12:45 pm

  8. OK, since I live in the US, I suppose your right to print whatever you like. I did have one question, because in a different post, you stated that Germany can prosecute anyone for Holocaust denial statements. So if I’m in America and I deny the Holocaust, and I were to travel to Germany, I would be prosecuted despite my US citizenship? That can’t be the case… can it?

    Orwellian.

    Last, I also have to point out that the woman in the ad is not shilling for Geico but for Progressive. She attended the University I went to.

    Comment by paolos — May 8, 2010 @ 11:35 am

    • Yes, an American citizen can be prosecuted for Holocaust denial in Germany if he or she says or writes some denial that can be heard or read in Germany. You can stand on a street corner in America and deny the Holocaust all you want, but if no one videotapes it and shows it in Germany, you cannot be prosecuted.

      You can write Holocaust denial in a book but if no one in Germany can buy the book, you cannot be prosecuted. Hans Schmidt and Fred Leuchter were two American citizens who were arrested in Germany for Holocaust denial, but both skipped bail and got out of Germany before they were put on trial.

      I have corrected my blog and now it reads Progressive Insurance, and not Geico. Thanks for pointing this out.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 8, 2010 @ 12:08 pm

  9. You seem to be disparaging the conduct of the British during the war. Their ops helped save the Western democracies and shorten the war. To call them ‘illegal combatants’ is a bit dicey since the Nazis disregarded the Geneva Convention and all treaties that they had signed (Munich Pact). What did you expect Britain, which had been bombed by the Nazis, to do? The countries that did not resist invasion suffered the fate of occupation, like Norway and Denmark.

    The “gaszeit” sign on the door probably proves that this room was used for disinfecting clothing.

    Comment by Paul — May 8, 2010 @ 10:36 am

    • You’re damned right, I’m disparaging the British. The British SOE was a secret organization; the files of the SOE were not opened until just a few years ago. It was secret because the purpose of the SOE was to help the French resistance which was fighting in violation of the Armistice signed by the French.

      The Geneva Convention pertains to POWs; the Germans followed the Geneva Convention with regard to POWs from countries that had signed the Convention, but not countries, like the Soviet Union, which had not signed the convention and were not following it with regard to German POWs. Illegal combatants, like the British SOE agents and the French Resistance fighters, were not entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention.

      The Munich Pact was an agreement to give the Sudentenland to Germany. This should have been done in the first place because Woodrow Wilson’s 14 points included one point that said that all ethnic groups should be put into the country of their choice. The Sudentenland was the home of 3 million ethnic Germans, who wanted to be citizens of Germany after World War I. Germany invaded Czechoslovakia only after the President had resigned and gone to England to set up a government in exile. Poland and Hungary also invaded at the same time and took back lands where their ethnic people lived — lands that should not have been given to Czechoslovakia, according to Wilson’s 14 points.

      At one point, Britain was the only country fighting against Germany during World War II. Hitler begged the British to surrender, which would have put an end to World War II, but no! The British wanted to destroy Germany for time and all eternity, so they refused to surrender. Germany did not want to fight the British in the first place, but the British declared war on Germany when Poland was invaded. The British did not declare war on the Soviet Union when the Soviets invaded Poland on September 17, 1939. The British wanted to finish the job of destroying Germany, which they started in World War I. Instead, the British lost their empire and Europe is now united with Germany the dominant country, which was what Hitler wanted all along.

      Comment by furtherglory — May 8, 2010 @ 11:00 am


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