Scrapbookpages Blog

July 17, 2010

A recent comment on my blog

Filed under: Dachau, Germany, Holocaust, World War II — Tags: — furtherglory @ 6:08 pm

I have not been posting or responding to comments because I have suffered a mild stroke. There was a comment made which wordpress classified as spam. I had the option to approve the comment, but I didn’t and deleted it as spam. Now that I am recovering a bit, I have changed my mind, so I am putting up this comment which was originally made on my post about the soldiers who saw Dachau here.

Comment:
Further Glory, I admire the work you have put into your scrapbookpages site, and I admire your effort to be completely accurate. However, I do find certain tendencies on this blog disturbing. For example, your response to the comment above, giving reasons why the prisoners on the “death train” from Buchenwald were evacuated, is misleading at best. “Dangerous to civilians” is a Nazi ideological euphemism, just like the need for a “final solution” to the Jewish “parasite” problem in Europe. It presumes some kind of rationality behind the Nazi murder system. Shunting and marching prisoners around the country does not make them less “dangerous to civilians,” but more so, especially when they are left for days at a time in train stations (a local pastor in what had been Czechoslovakia had time to give bread to the starving inmates, for instance). In any case the death marches in 1945 were a largely futile attempt to keep human evidence of and witnesses to atrocities from falling into Allied hands. That rationale hinged on the illusory notion that the Germans would ultimately defend some territory and in some bizarre way “win” the war. When some responsible German officials realized beyond doubt that the war was lost, they drew the “logical” conclusion and burned the marching prisoners alive, as happened at Ohrdruf, Gardelegen and numerous other places. For them apparently, dead evidence was better than alive evidence. Also: “all Europe was starving” is misleading, as is “enough food to last them until they got to Flossenburg.” I don’t need to quibble with you, but doing some kind of calorie per person per day calculation would show that “enough” is a very relative term, even in comparison with the general lack of foodstuffs in Europe (never mind that KZ warehouses were well stocked). So what is my point? I don’t like the drift of your comments. Saying that Holocaust courses in the US teach students to hate Germans is nonsense. I teach Holocaust and German history courses in the US that certainly do not do that. Isn’t that the kind of blanket statement you are trying to debunk? You closed your comments on other pages, and have no place for general comments (I somewhat expect you will delete this one, I have to say), but I would like to give you an example for another of your pages, about the “Dachau massacre”: “The guards and staff members who survived the massacre at the liberation of Dachau were put on trial by an American Military Tribunal conducted at Dachau and all were convicted of participating in a common design to violate the Laws and Usages of War under the Geneva Convention of 1929.” Only a relative handful of the staff of Dachau were ever put on trial, and certainly not all were convicted under the “common design” charge. You know this–why do you make such a statement? Even your caveat, the staff who “survived the massacre” is designed to mislead–there was never any attempt by the US GIs present to massacre ALL of the Germans/SS/Nazis (yes, many of those shot down were Hungarian SS–but we have no idea whether some of them might not have been brutal guards), so it was not a big deal to “survive” a spontaneous shooting that was never conceived as a blanket massacre, but “merely” a venting of rage and outrage by some soldiers unprepared for and lacking understanding of what they saw. Very different than what the guards of the death marches and trains did to their charges. Sorry for such a long post, but I really am disturbed that someone who does such careful research as you do would write with such denier-friendly carelessness. I have recommended your site to many people who come to me with questions about Dachau, but with this tendency can no longer do so. Sincerely, Harold Marcuse Prof. of German history at UC Santa Barbara
marcuse@history.ucsb.edu
Harold Marcuse
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/dachau.htm
spam
Quick Edit | Edit | Not Spam | Delete Permanently

I will leave it up to the readers to spot what I believe are errors in this reader’s comment. I am too tired to type any more, but if no one can spot the errors in his comment, I will post again and give you the answers.

Update, July 18, 2010

One comment was already made by Rudolfo on the original post here.

32 Comments

  1. My question is only, how much money Marcuses are making from the greatest lie ever told. Mister Marcuse, would you tell us how much money you have made on your recent book, maybe.
    Pardon my Yiddish.

    Comment by Gasan — October 3, 2010 @ 9:20 pm

  2. I said I would not comment, but I have to say it is wrong of you to post someone’s email without asking them.

    Paolo

    Comment by paolosilv — July 23, 2010 @ 1:15 am

    • Prof. Marcuse included his e-mail address and the URL of his website in his comment. I posted his comment just as it was written, e-mail address and URL included. It never occurred to me to remove the e-mail address and URL because it can be easily found by doing a google search on Harold Marcuse. His web site comes up first in the search results with his e-mail address at the top of the page. It is wrong to post the CONTENTS of an e-mail without permission, but I’ve never done that. I am the one who told YOU that it is wrong to post private e-mail.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 23, 2010 @ 7:27 am

  3. “Sorry, but the Dachau crematorium chimney was completed in the Spring of 1943 and never destroyed, so it never had to be “rebuilt.” After the war some of the German internees held by the US Army claimed that it was built after the war, but that is an outright falsehood. ”

    I can’t say whether or not the chimney was constructed in 1943 – however I do know the chimney photographed a few days after liberation was much taller than the chimney today – this can easily be seen be comparison of photographs.

    The white banding that is visible today (but not in 1945)I determined (after a visit to Dachau to answer that question) consists of bands of mortar. Hence the chimney must have dismantled to the level of the lowest white band and rebuilt. I presume this was done because the original chimney was showing signs of cracking or fatigue.

    There is nothing necessarily suspicious about this but I find it odd that it was not mentioned either in your book on the history of Dachau or an architect’s report on the Crematorium commissioned by the local Gedenkstaette. This suggests something to hide.

    As regards Majdanek, it is very clear that the chimney was not even present at liberation – nor the ovens for that matter (although there is no doubt a single oven crematorium had existed)

    I draw Prof. Marcuse’s attention to the three part series on Majdanek on my blog littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com.

    Given the document and layout of the two crematorium inextricably links Majdanek and Dachau, if one is fake it is entirely likely the other is.

    Incidently, I have seen a copy of the plans of the original Dachau crematorium in one of the archives in Germany. To the best of my knowledge it is not included in any study of Dachau and may well be otherwise unknown.

    I would be delighted to give Prof. Marcuse the reference – should he so desire.

    Comment by littlegreyrabbit — July 22, 2010 @ 10:17 pm

    • Strangely, you never see an old photo of Baracke X which shows what the east wall looked like just after it was built. There are old photos of the back of the building, showing the west wall, and photos of the north side of the building and even the south side, but no photos of the front of the building showing the east wall. These photos might exist, but they are kept carefully hidden. This is strange because the Germans had the best cameras in the world at that time (Leica and Rolliflex) and they took photos of everything.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 23, 2010 @ 8:53 am

  4. “The photo of Majdanek seems to show barracks that were burned down, leaving only the chimneys of the stoves in the barrack”

    Not exactly, it shows a barrack outside the fence that surrounds all the main barracks. The barrack had two little chimneys in the exact same position of two chimneys that can be seen in the location of today’s crematorium.

    I too doubt that Barracke X was constructed de novo, in fact I am sure it wasn’t. Barrack X was probably a replacement for the disinfection block inside the main fence.

    I am sorry you can so many flames from Jews, should Prof. Marcuse be reading this, I suspect he will be a little more understanding of your position and hopefully will continue to direct traffic to your blog.

    As the Torah says: “By way of deception you shall have the victory”

    Comment by lgr — July 21, 2010 @ 10:00 pm

    • It’s been a long time since I visited Majdanek, so I went to my own web site to review what I wrote at that time (1998). The crematorium is shown on this page: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek05.html

      A good photo of the burned crematorium is shown here: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/index.html

      I don’t know what “two little chimneys” you are talking about.

      The text under the photo says that all the prisoners were “liquidated,” but the prisoners had previously been sent to other camps long before the Soviets got there. The prisoners who were killed on the day of liberation were from the nearby Gestapo prison. The survivors at Majdanek were Russian soldiers who had defected and fought for the Germans. They had been left behind when the camp was evacuated.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 22, 2010 @ 5:33 am

  5. I have already mentioned before how Prof. Marcuse neither mentioned the rebuilding of the Dachau crematorium chimney in his history of post-liberation Dachau nor replied to emails querying if he knew anything about it. That is is prerogative, but it does suggest that his teaching and writing of history has a strong propagandistic or political tendency.

    However photos like this
    http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10742/t/Here-we-go-here-we-go-here-we-go.html

    make it very clear that much of what we today know as the Majdanek crematorium complex was in fact fabricated by the Soviets and this provides very strong indirect confirmation that the oral tradition of SS prisoners of Dachau (that the Dachau new crematorium was a post liberation forgery) is correct, or at least close to correct.

    But there is no chance that Prof. Marcuse will be able to change his views or teachings in response to such minor inconveniences like evidence.

    Best wishes to a speedy recovery and better health.

    Comment by littlegreyrabbit — July 19, 2010 @ 10:01 pm

    • I am feeling much better today; thank you for caring about me.

      The photo of Majdanek seems to show barracks that were burned down, leaving only the chimneys of the stoves in the barrack. There are many of these chimneys at Auschwitz. The text under the photo tells about the barracks, so I think the photo shows what is left of several barracks. I think the objects in the foreground are stones, not skulls.

      The crematorium at Majdanek was burned down, allegedly by the Nazis to destroy the evidence, but I think that the Soviets burned it down. The Soviets then rebuilt the crematorium, complete with a gas chamber which has a hole for pouring in Zyklon-B pellets, and this hole is directly over a floor drain. The pellets would have gone down the drain and poisoned the whole camp. Fortunately, the Soviets didn’t burn down the real gas chambers, which I think were for disinfecting clothes. The latest information is that 59,000 Jews died at Majdanek, so who died in all these gas chambers?

      The SS men who were imprisoned at Dachau after the war were allegedly forced to build Barracke X, the gas chamber building. I don’t think this is true. Some of the changes that were made to the Dachau gas chamber were made between May 1st and May 3rd. The bins on the outside of Baracke X were added some time after November 29, 1945 when the gas chamber film was shown at Nuremberg. I don’t think this construction was done by Germans because the construction is very sloppy and not what you would expect of Germans. Visitors to Dachau today are not allowed to see what is behind the west wall of the gas chamber.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 20, 2010 @ 10:22 am

    • Sorry, but the Dachau crematorium chimney was completed in the Spring of 1943 and never destroyed, so it never had to be “rebuilt.” After the war some of the German internees held by the US Army claimed that it was built after the war, but that is an outright falsehood.

      I do not know about Maidanek, but I do know that the Auschwitz I crematorium was reconstructed (note: RE-constructed) after having been partially demolished by the fleeing camp staff, using parts from the Auschwitz II-Birkenau crematoria, which has also been partially dismantled and demolished. I do teach about that.

      A typical strategy used by Holocaust deniers is to take partial truths and misconceptions about one place and generalize them to apply to other or all places. (This is also common for anyone learning about any complex event in history, and historians work hard to debunk such misconceptions.)

      Comment by Harold Marcuse — July 22, 2010 @ 9:41 am

  6. This is a reply to Mr. Tbag’s comment made on July 19, 2010 at 4:25 a.m.

    I deleted some of your one-liners that only consisted of name calling and didn’t really say anything. I deleted the comment about my post about Thomas Jefferson because I didn’t understand what you were trying to say. Now, I see that you were giving me the page where I said that Jews dominate the media and that the Jews have changed America.

    Here is the exact quote of what I said in a comment on my July 3 post about Thomas Jefferson:

    “The term neo-con is a code word for Jews. It is short for neo-conservative, but Jews are never conservative, including the neo-cons.

    “The elite media” is a code word for the Jews in the media. The elite media includes all of the famous newspapers like the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. Fox News is not Jewish. The only Jews on Fox News are Geraldo Rivera and a few contributors like Bernie Goldberg.

    The American media is dominated by liberals and Jews. The population of America is mostly conservative and non-Jewish; that’s why Fox News is watched by more people than any other network. Most newspapers are going broke now because they do not publish the views of the majority of Americans.

    Jews have already changed America from what it used to be. Thankfully, I got to live in America as it used to be, and I won’t have to live much longer in America, as it has now become.”

    I think that everything that I said in that quote is true. I am in ill health now and can no longer reply to Jews who want to argue and nit-pick every word that I write. I will continue to delete all posts that consist of nothing but ad hominem attacks and don’t say anything intelligible. If you have something intelligent to contribute, I would be happy to have your comments, but you seem to be nothing but a mindless hater who clutters the Internet with mindless name calling.

    Comment by furtherglory — July 19, 2010 @ 6:59 am

    • It is amusing that you assume that I am Jewish. This says a lot about you, FG! In fact, I was raised Catholic and now consider myself agnostic. You are nothing but a bitter, old anti-Semite.

      Comment by Mr.Tbag — July 20, 2010 @ 7:08 am

      • Sorry, I was wrong about you. I also thought that Joy Behar was Jewish, but she also claims to be Catholic. What do you mean by the term “anti-Semite.” The word Semite means a language group which also includes Arabs. The word anti-Semite was originally coined by a German guy named Wilhelm Marr.

        The title of the Wannsee conference, ordered by Hermann Goering, Hitler’s right-hand man, was “The Final Solution of the Jewish Question.”

        The Jewish Question had been discussed for years in Germany; even Karl Marx weighed in on the Question. The “Jewish Question” was should Jews assimilate into the country where they lived, or should they keep themselves separate in their ghettos and Jewish quarters. The word “anti-Semite” was coined to mean a person who wanted the Jews to assimilate, meaning a person who did not want the Jews to be separate or to have their own country. Anti-Semite originally meant anti-Zionist. I am not anti-Zionist.

        Gotta go now. I’m following the Lindsey Lohan drama that is going on now.

        Comment by furtherglory — July 20, 2010 @ 8:49 am

  7. Regarding the alleged Gardelegen massacre. I found the following on one of the links: “These guards then forced all prisoners into a barn of the Remount School in Gardelegen (carrying in those too sick to make it on their own) and set the whole thing on fire.”

    Except for darkened areas just above the two large doorways, I saw no evidence of fire damage to the building structure in any of the pictures. If the Nazis had deliberately burned bodies i-n-s-i-d-e the large wooden barn, there would have surely been lots of fire damage–and probably a destroyed building. Obviously, there is something seriously wrong with the fairy tale we have been give.

    My guess is that although some of victims might have been shot by the Germans, the vast majority were shot by strafing with 50-caliber machine guns which the western Allies used on all their fighter planes–but not the Germans. That 50-caliber detail is a fact which indicts the Allies for the killings of masses of people on trains as at Dachau and elsewhere.

    The real mass murderers and fiends were the Americans and Brits. The Nazis were the “Good Guys”—-get used to it!

    As to the charge that Furtherglory might be anti-Semitic–so what?

    Friedrich Paul Berg
    Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
    Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

    Comment by Friedrich Paul Berg — July 18, 2010 @ 10:34 am

    • The barn at Gardelegen was not strafed, but the death train at Dachau was strafed by American planes. For this reason, the Americans didn’t do much of an investigation. The barn was not deliberately set on fire, as proved by the photos. The Americans immediately shot all the SS men they could find, but didn’t do an investigation of the barn; they just turned everything over to the Russians because Gardelegen was in the Soviet zone.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 11:50 am

    • The quote about burning the prisoners at the Remount School during the Gardelegen massacre is from a book entitled “Backing Hitler” by Robert Gellately, published in 2001 by Oxford University Press. I did not write this; Robert Gellately wrote it.

      The prisoners were first put in the Remount School and later marched to the barn. They were not burned at the Remount School, but I included that on my web site because I include all information, even when I think it is wrong. Many people rely on the Gellately book for their information, so I had to include this quote.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 20, 2010 @ 12:22 pm

  8. “Dangerous to civilians” is a Nazi ideological euphemism, just like the need for a “final solution” to the Jewish “parasite” problem in Europe. It presumes some kind of rationality behind the Nazi murder system. So Marcuse writes.

    These are incredibly biased, ignorant and polemical statements from a Professor of German History at a major University and a supposed “expert” on Holocaust and Dachau. This is unfortunately the nature of our academic departments when they are headed by Jewish professors dealing with this subject matter (which most are).

    Where is the proof that there is or was such a thing as a “Nazi ideological euphemism?” Those desperate to maintain the Final Solution as an “extermination of Jews plan” have invented the idea of euphemisms, since there is no clear language found in any records or writings of National Socialist leaders pertaining to such a plan. Thus, Marcuse’s intent here is to deceive. Where is his scholastic support for such statements? To use the terminology “Nazi murder system” is a sensationalistic trick, a la Nizkor, which he actually recommends on his website for his students’ study.

    “Shunting and marching prisoners around the country does not make them less ‘dangerous to civilians,’ but more so, especially when they are left for days at a time in train stations (a local pastor in what had been Czechoslovakia had time to give bread to the starving inmates, for instance),” Marcuse writes.

    Again, because there is a testimony from someone who says he was a local pastor, or others say about a local pastor, that he gave bread to inmates [are they “inmates” when in a train or a train station? Careless terminology here] doesn’t make it true. There is counter-testimony to this, but Marcuse ignores it. He implies that these prisoners were left alone in the train station. Actually, we’re not sure what he’s implying; he covers his confusion with: In any case ….

    “In any case the death marches in 1945 were a largely futile attempt to keep human evidence of and witnesses to atrocities from falling into Allied hands.”

    Really? Where is the evidence for that? As Rudolfo said in his comment written July 17 at the original blog entry, and which may be missed by your readers so I copy it here:
    Marcuse writes … “When some responsible German officials realized beyond doubt that the war was lost, they drew the “logical” conclusion and burned the marching prisoners alive, as happened at Ohrdruf, Gardelegen and numerous other places. For them apparently, dead evidence was better than alive evidence.”
    The idea that the Nazis killed the prisoners to ‘hide’ evidence is absurd, as there were tens of thousands of live prisoners in the camps when they were liberated. Unfortunately pictures of these prisoners have been systematically suppressed in the media, and you’ve likely never seen them. Google (images) for dachau liberation to see them. –Rudolfo

    Comment by Skeptic — July 18, 2010 @ 9:05 am

    • I have just finished my answer to Prof. Marcuse’s comment.

      Here are the errors that I think he made in his comment:

      1. “why the prisoners on the “death train” from Buchenwald were evacuated, is misleading at best.”

      “your response to the comment above, giving reasons “Dangerous to civilians” is a Nazi ideological euphemism,”

      I believe that the prisoners on the “death train” were sent first to Flossenburg and then to Dachau to prevent them from being released by the Americans; Hitler ordered the evacuation of the prisoners because Buchenwald was close to Weimar, which was an important city to the Nazis. The prisoners on the death train were mostly Russian POWs or Jews because they were considered the most dangerous to the Weimar civilians. You can read the backstory of the death train on this page of my website:
      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/DeathTrain3.html

      2. “Nazi ideological euphemism”

      I don’t think that the Nazis used euphemisms. They meant what they said and they said what they meant.

      3. “the need for a “final solution” to the Jewish “parasite” problem in Europe.”

      The term “die Endlösung der Judenfrage” was written by Hermann Goering in a letter to Reinhard Heydrich on July 31, 1941. Translated into English, it means “The Final Solution to the Jewish Question.” However, at the Nuremberg IMT, Goering testified that the term meant the “Total solution to the Jewish question” which he said meant the evacuation of the Jews to the East.

      4. “the death marches in 1945 were a largely futile attempt to keep human evidence of and witnesses to atrocities from falling into Allied hands.”

      This statement doesn’t make any sense at all since they were plenty of witnesses left behind. The prisoners were marched out of the camps in the order of their potential to attack civilians with those who were the most dangerous being sent out first. You can read about the prisoners who were sent out of Dachau on this page of my website: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscrapbook/DachauLiberation/LiberationDay2A.html

      5. “burned the marching prisoners alive, as happened at Ohrdruf, Gardelegen and numerous other places.”

      The marching prisoners were not burned alive. No one testified to that. At Gardelegen, the prisoners had been on a train and when the train had to stop because the Allies had bombed the tracks, the prisoners had attacked civilians in the village of Kakerbeck which was 16 km from Gardelegan. That’s why the prisoners at Gardelegen were put into a stone barn with a stone floor; prisoners who tried to escape from the barn were shot. The shots caused fires in the straw in the barn, but the barn was not deliberately set on fire. The bodies of the dead prisoners in the barn still had unburned clothing on them. If the Germans had wanted to burn the prisoners alive, they would have put them in a wooden barn.

      6. “all Europe was starving” is misleading, as is “enough food to last them until they got to Flossenburg.”

      It might be “misleading” but these statements are true. I have given the sources for these statements on this page of my website: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/DeathTrain3.html

      7. “Saying that Holocaust courses in the US teach students to hate Germans is nonsense.”

      The end result of all the Holocaust courses in the US is that students hate the Germans.

      8. “Only a relative handful of the staff of Dachau were ever put on trial, and certainly not all were convicted under the “common design” charge.”

      The reason that only a handful of the staff at Dachau were prosecuted is because of the “common design” charge. The accused who were prosecuted were selected to represent each job in the camp, to show that they were all guilty, regardless of what they had personally done.

      The Nazis were not “put on trial,” at Dachau, nor at Nuremberg. The Nazis were prosecuted by Military Tribunals which conducted “proceedings” against them.
      I have explained the difference between a trial and a MIlitary Tribunal proceeding on this page of my web site:
      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/FirstDachauTrial.html

      I have explained that all of the accused were convicted under the “common design” charge on this page:
      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/MartinGottfriedWeiss05.html

      9. “there was never any attempt by the US GIs present to massacre ALL of the Germans/SS/Nazis (yes, many of those shot down were Hungarian SS–but we have no idea whether some of them might not have been brutal guards), so it was not a big deal to “survive” a spontaneous shooting that was never conceived as a blanket massacre, but “merely” a venting of rage and outrage by some soldiers unprepared for and lacking understanding of what they saw.”

      The Dachau massacre was stopped by Lt. Col. Felix Sparks or all of the SS men at Dachau would have been shot.

      We do have an idea that the Hungarian SS soldiers were not “brutal guards” because the Hungarian SS soldiers had been sent to keep order while the camp was surrendered. Hungarian SS soldiers who were sent to Bergen-Belsen to help the British when the camp was turned over to them were also shot by the British “liberators.”
      You can read the full story of the Dachau massacre on this page: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/SoldiersKilled.html

      Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 9:23 am

  9. Thank you Professor Marcuse for stating what I have always believed about the author of this blog. The scrapbook pages are very informative and interesting. However, Mr./Mrs. FurtherGlory is an anti-Semite who believes that Germany should not be held responsible for the atrocities committed during World War II.
    Responses to comments that I have made on this blog show that FG is very anti-Jewish. FG has stated that Jews control the media and are therefore responsible for misinformation that we receive. FG has also commented that the U.S. was a better country before Jews began to dominate the media and he/she wishes that the country could go back in time before this so-called Jewish control took place.

    Comment by Mr.Tbag — July 18, 2010 @ 3:25 am

    • I searched wordpress for the comment by me that you are referring to, but there were 4,044 comments about Jews controlling the media, and I didn’t want to read all of them, so can you please tell me which post of mine that this comment was on?

      I did find this interesting comment which I have copied and pasted below:

      Begin quote:

      And also this:
      Six Jewish Companies Own 96 % of the World’s Media – March 16, 2009
      The power of lies, deceptions and disinformation as Americans pay the price of collective stupidity.
      “You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can’t criticize Israel…”

      Facts of Jewish Media Control
      Electronic News & Entertainment Media
      http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/six-jewish-companies-own-96-of-the-worlds-media/

      Comment by Anonymous — 30/06/2009 @ 07:18

      End Quote

      Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 5:21 am

      • I tried searching Google blogs for “Jews control the media” and found 422,989 results but no results for furtherglory and this phrase. I don’t recall saying that Jews control the media, but if I did, it was a mistake because Jews don’t control anything in America or anywhere else.

        Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 5:50 am

        • I didn’t intend to start a war when I wrote about the American soldiers being taken to see Dachau, but CODOH has now picked up the post, and you can read comments about the comments on my post at http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6109&start=0

          Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 6:28 am

        • July 3, 2010. “Did Thomas Jefferson really father the children of Sally Hemmings?” Please read your reply and stop deleting my comments that show what you really said. Thank you.

          Comment by Mr.Tbag — July 19, 2010 @ 4:25 am

    • Mr. Tbag,

      There is nothing substantial in your comment about the “facts” of the so-called death marches, but only attacks on the intent and personality of the blogger, FG.

      The charge of anti-Semite and anti-Jewish is really tiresome and convinces nobody except people like yourself. You’re going to have to do better than that.

      Comment by Skeptic — July 18, 2010 @ 9:15 am

      • Haters gonna hate, Jew hater!

        Comment by Mr.Tbag — July 18, 2010 @ 1:06 pm

  10. At another point, Marcuse claimed the Nazis “burned the marching prisoners alive, as happened at Ohrdruf, Gardelegen and numerous other places.” Please explain that if you dare to try, Marcuse. That late in the war, the Germans didn’t even have enough fuel to get more than a handful of their airplanes into the air and yet, it is claimed the Germans were using it to incinerate their own workers. That is pure rubbish! The real murderers of Gardelegen and Ohrdruf could only have been the Americans and/or Brits who had lots of fuel and napalm. They had already r-o-a-s-t-e-d hundreds of thousands of civilians in Germany alone–a few more innocent victims would have meant nothing. But, since the victims here were Jews, the true mass murderers did not dare admit their errors. The Jews would have had them in court for decades–so, blame the Germans instead.

    Friedrich Paul Berg
    Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
    Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

    Comment by Friedrich Paul Berg — July 17, 2010 @ 10:10 pm

    • There were no prisoners burned alive at Ohrdruf; Prof. Marcuse is the first person, that I know of, who has made this claim. The prisoners at Gardelegen were killed to prevent them from attacking civilians in the town of Gardelegen. I have written about Gardelegen at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Gardelegen/Massacre.html
      I have also written about why the order was given to kill the prisoners at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Gardelegen/GerhardThiele.html

      Photos show that most of the prisoners died of bullet wounds.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 18, 2010 @ 5:59 am

      • In contrast to Mr. Berg, whose comment makes no sense–the amount of fuel used to burn inmates alive was trivial in comparison to that needed for air raids, and its use by German murderers is well documented on the scrapbookpages page referenced in furtherglory’s response.

        Probably correct, that no prisoners were burned *alive* at Ohrdruf. The charred corpses found by liberators there had probably been dead already, and this was an attempt to destroy evidence of mass murder. I should have done my homework and looked up which of the Kaufering camps it was where US soldiers came upon the charred corpses of inmates who had been running to the perimeter fence.

        As for protecting civilians by committing a horrific atrocity: Why didn’t those brilliant Germans think of how the liberating soldiers might react and treat them after coming upon this ghastly scene at Gardelegen? No, the perpetrators beat it and let mostly uninvolved local townspeople take the rap. So much for “protecting” them.

        Comment by Harold Marcuse — July 22, 2010 @ 11:56 am

        • The Kaufering IV camp was liberated by Americans, and this is probably the camp to which you are referring. Kaufering IV was designated as a “sick camp” and the sick prisoners from the other Kaufering camps were brought there. Pregnant women were also brought to Kaufering IV where their babies were born. The prisoners from the other ten Kaufering camps were evacuated to Dachau for liberation; they arrived just two days before Dachau was surrendered to the Americans; the women and their babies arrived the day after Dachau was liberated. Dr. Charles P. Larson did autopsies on the bodies at Kaufering IV and Dachau and determined that most of the victims had died from typhus. Dr. Larson did say that 86 prisoners at Kaufering IV had died from burns, but I don’t know why they were burned.

          Comment by furtherglory — July 22, 2010 @ 6:10 pm

        • The Germans tried to bury the bodies to hide the killing of the prisoners at Gardelegen, but there were 100 or more prisoners who had escaped from the barn and they led the Americans to the site. If the Germans had killed all the prisoners, they probably wouldn’t have been caught because the barn was way out in the country, a long way from the town of Gardelegen. This barn was a poor choice for a place to keep the prisoners because there were no locks on the doors. The Germans tried to guard the doors, but the prisoners managed to escape in spite of this. The man who ordered the prisoners put into the barn, to save the women and children, was arrested but never prosecuted. No one revealed his hiding place and he lived to a ripe old age; he was considered a hero for saving the women and children. He never considered what would happen when the Americans arrived. The SS men who were involved were killed by the Americans and the men in the town had to dig up the bodies and bury them in a military cemetery because there were Soviet POWs among them.

          There was no “mass murder” at Ohrdruf. The prisoners died of typhus and the number of bodies did not amount to “mass murder.”

          Comment by furtherglory — July 22, 2010 @ 6:55 pm

  11. I am so interested in these so-called “death marches.” Marcuse totally ignores what is now rather well established which is that a great many of the “marchers,” if not all, wanted to go west with the retreating Germans rather than be “liberated” by the Russians. That is why, for example, according to the Schindler’s List story–if we can believe anything about it at all–the Jews wanted to get on Schindler’s List and go west with him rather than simply hide until the Russians appeared. There was lots of work in those parts of Germany that were still free–so most, if not all, of these people could be put to work helping defend the Reich.

    Does Marcuse seriously believe the Nazis were trying to kill these people by marching them to death from exhaustion? If the purpose were to simply kill them to keep them from talking about their horrible experiences, it would have been vastly more efficient to simply kill them by shooting, or gas, or whatever–and skip the marching charade completely? If you march people around, even for only a few days, you still have to feed them something which means less food for the Nazis or SS and for Germans generally. You can’t get people to march very far, even for just a few hours, on just air–and then, you still have to keep them from running away–unless they really want to go with you. Were these people in handcuffs or shackles of some sort? of course, not. In the US people are routinely handcuffed for minor offenses to keep them from escaping.

    The real killers of people on the so-called “death marches” and on trains (such as the so-called “Death Train” at Dachau) were the cowardly Allied airmen who knew perfectly well that those stumbling civilians on the roads and trains down below were not likely to shoot back at them. That company of German soldiers on the other side of the hill would, if they had enough ammo and a typical high-speed machine gun, tear them to pieces if they got too close.

    Herbert Marcuse is just another quack holocaust historian (Jewish??–why not)–but his book Legacies of Dachau does have some useful information and pictures. It is such a pity, but no surprise, that Marcuse has neither the brains nor the strength of character to put any of it together honestly. That Marcuse ‘s grandfather was that thoroughly despicable bigot and anti-German CIA hatemongerer Herbert Marcuse–“No tolerance for Intolerance”–shows that the apple has not fallen far from the rotten tree.

    Friedrich Paul Berg
    Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
    Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

    Comment by Friedrich Paul Berg — July 17, 2010 @ 8:19 pm


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