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March 1, 2011

What really happened to Ernst Thälmann?

Filed under: Buchenwald, Germany, World War II — Tags: , , — furtherglory @ 10:10 am

Ernst Thälmann was the leader of the KPD (Communist political party) in Germany before the start of World War II.

In a recent comment on my blog, Herbert Stolpman wrote that Ernst Thälmann was shot on the orders of Hitler at Buchenwald in 1944. The death of Ernst Thälmann is a controversial subject which deserves a blog post of its own.

In October 1999, I visited the Buchenwald Memorial Site where I saw a plaque on the wall of the crematorium, which is shown in the photo below.  The plaque hangs at the spot where Thälmann was allegedly shot on the orders of Hitler.

Plaque on the wall of the crematorium at Buchenwald

The day after I visited Buchenwald, I went to the Sachsenhausen Memorial Site where I learned that two of the most prominent political prisoners who were imprisoned there were the Chairman of the German Communist party, Ernst Thälmann, and the Chairman of the Social Democrat party, Dr. Rudolf Breitscheid. Just the day before, I had learned that Thälmann was executed in front of the crematorium at Buchenwald on August 18, 1944 and that Dr. Breitscheid was killed in an Allied bombing raid on Buchenwald on August 24, 1944.  

At the Buchenwald Memorial Site, I visited the Bunker (the camp prison) which is shown in the photo below.

The bunker (prison) at Buchenwald

The camp prison, called the Bunker (Zellenbau), was located in the west wing of the gatehouse, which is shown in the photo above. There were two rows of cells in the Bunker, divided by a central hallway. The cells on the north side had windows which looked out over the camp mustering ground (Appellplatz), but the cells on the south side had only air holes, located on the outside wall.

The black objects on the wall in the photo above, that look like large mail boxes, were designed with holes in the top to let air into the cells inside. This exterior wall of the prison wing was outside the camp. In the background you can see the electrified barbed wire fence around the camp, and the guard tower at the west gate.

The picture below shows a display in the Buchenwald cell that was allegedly occupied by Ernst Thälmann, who was the chairman of the German Communist Party and a member of the Reichstag (Congress or Parliament).

Exhibit inside the Buchenwald Bunker

The photo above shows an exhibit, with Thalmann’s picture, inside the cell in the Buchenwald bunker where he was a prisoner.

Of all the VIP political prisoners at the four main German camps (Dachau, Buchenwald, Mauthausen and Sachsenhausen), Thälmann and Dr. Rudolf Breitscheid were the only ones who died while imprisoned.

The Nazis claimed in their official party newspaper on September 16, 1944 that both Breitscheid and Thälmann had died in the Allied bombing raid on Buchenwald on August 24, 1944.

In 1999, the Buchenwald Museum guidebook stated that Breitscheid died in the bombing raid, but not Thälmann. Breitscheid was a prisoner in the VIP section in the Fichtenhain Special Camp, but Thälmann was imprisoned in a cell in the Bunker according to the display inside the Bunker. As anyone can see, the Bunker was not hit in the bombing raid.

In the Report of a Parliamentary Delegation, the British claimed that 750 people had been killed in the Allied bombing raid on the factories at Buchenwald on August 24, 1944, including 400 inmates.

According to the Buchenwald Report, Ernst Thälmann was arrested in 1933 and sent to the Bautzen prison, from which he was later transferred to the Buchenwald concentration camp, where he was “smuggled into the camp by Goebbels around the time of the bombing of Buchenwald.”

The Mibau factory, where V2 rockets were being built, was located at Buchenwald.  The Germans had built the factory to look like a concentration camp in hopes that the Allies would not bomb it, but it received a direct hit in the August 24, 1944 bombing raid by the British Royal Air Force.

A group of barracks that was reserved for VIP prisoners, called the Fichtenhain Special Camp, was built in the forest at Buchenwald, between the SS barracks and the military garages, outside the barbed wire enclosure of the main camp. Dr. Rudolf Breitscheid, chairman of the Social Democrats in the German Parliament, and Mafalda, the Princess of Hesse and daughter of the Italian king, were kept under arrest in the Fichtenhain Special Camp, beginning in 1943. Both of them were killed in the bombing raid on August 24, 1944.

According to a German report, a total of 384 prisoners were killed in the August 24th RAF bombing raid and around six hundred were injured. Among the wounded were the wife and daughter of the Buchenwald Camp Commandant, SS Colonel Herman Pister.

Again, on February 9, 1945, the Buchenwald complex was bombed for the second time by British planes; this time, the target was the Gustloff Works munitions factory. In this raid 316 prisoners lost their lives out of about 2,000 employed in the factory. Over 80 SS men were killed and 238 wounded during this raid.

On my visit to the Sachsenhausen Memorial Site in 1999, I purchased a pamphlet entitled “From Memory to the Monument,”  which was no longer being sold when I visited again in 2001.

This quote is from “From Memory to the Monutment”:

The Communist Thälmann and the Social Democrat Breitscheid belonged to the “other Germany.” Both were murdered in the concentration camp and both were used in the exhibition as exponents for the ideology of the German Socialist Unity Party (SED).

In other words, this pamphlet (which is no longer being sold at Sachsenhausen) claimed that Thälmann and Breitsheid were both “murdered” in Sachsenhausen, when one of them wasn’t murdered at all, but was accidentally killed by the Allies, and the other has a memorial plaque at Buchenwald which commemorates his death by execution there, not at Sachsenhausen.

In the Buchenwald Report, one of the Buchenwald inmates, Armin Walther, was quoted as saying the following in an interview :

If the Nazi murderers maintain that Ernst Thälmann, the leader of the KPD, was also killed during this bombardment, that is a brazen lie. Thälmann was never in Buchenwald and was surely murdered by the SS criminals in another location.

The Sachsenhausen Museum was claiming in 1999 that both Thälmann and Dr. Breitscheid had been executed in Sachsenhausen in 1944.

The confusion about which camp can claim the “murder” of Thälmann may have been caused by the Nazi party newspaper report on September 16, 1944 that both Thälmann and Breitscheid had been killed in the August 24, 1944 air raid on Buchenwald when the VIP prisoner section suffered a direct hit.  According to the Buchenwald Memorial Site, Thälmann was not in the Buchenwald VIP section at the time that the bomb hit; he had already been shot outside the crematorium.

But why had Thälmann allegedly been singled out as the only VIP prisoner at Buchenwald whom Hitler had ordered to be shot?

The Buchenwald and Sachsenhausen camps were both in Communist East Germany after the war.  Both of the Memorial Sites at these former camps honored the political prisoners, rather than the Jews.

When I visited the Buchenwald Memorial site in 1999, I noticed that there was a heavy emphasis on the Communist and Social Democrat political prisoners with virtually no mention of the 4,000 Jews who were in the camp when it was liberated.

First monument erected by the prisoners at Buchenwald

The first monument to be erected at the former Buchenwald concentration camp, shown in the photo above, was a political statement by the Communists, not a Holocaust memorial. The Buchenwald concentration camp was primarily a camp for political prisoners who opposed the Nazis, not a death camp for the genocide of the Jews.

The Buchenwald monument was erected in April 1945, only 8 days after the camp was liberated. The letters K.L.B. stand for Konzentratzionslager Buchenwald, which was the German name for the Buchenwald Concentration camp.  The Monument has since been moved out of the camp.

Monument at Sachsenhausen honors only the political prisoners

The photo above shows the Monument in the center of the Sachsenhausen Memorial Site which honors only the political prisoners who wore a red triangle.

My personal opinion is that Thälmann was killed in the bombing raid on Buchenwald, but the Soviet Communists could not accept such an ignominious death for a Communist hero, so they made up the story that he was kept in the Buchenwald Bunker and taken to the crematorium to be “murdered” by an order of Hitler before the bombing raid.  The Soviet Communists could not accept the truth, which was that Thälmann was killed by the Allies in a bombing raid, so they claimed that he was killed in two different camps, Buchenwald and Sachsenhausen.

50 Comments

  1. Reblogged this on Cbmilne33’s Blog.

    Comment by cbmilne33 — April 20, 2015 @ 6:45 am

    • cbmline33’s
      I have left a rather lengthy comment on your site

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — April 22, 2015 @ 9:38 pm

    • Ernst Thälmann – Hitler’s Rival
      By midsummer 1944, Ernst Thählmann had outlived his usefulness to the Nazi regime. At this point it was clear to any observer that Germany was losing the war and that a negotiated peace with the Allies was impossible, the imprisoned KPD leader could no longer serve as a pawn in German-Soviet relations. Further as the end of the war drew near, Adolf Hitler became increasingly nihilistic, ever more determined that defeat would mean the destruction not only of his “Thousand Year Reich”, but also of Germany itself. In keeping with this sentiment, the Führer wanted to leave no possible successor to replace him. No one should be in position to rebuild Germany in the wake of the most destructive war in European history, least of all a Communist Leader who had long been one of his most vocal critics and a loyal ally of the hated Soviet Union. In Hitler’s mind, the imprisoned KPD chief simply had no role to play in Germany’s future, indeed Germany had shown itself unworthy of any future at all.
      Thählmann’s fate was among the topics discussed at a 14 August 1944 meeting held in Hitler’s headquarters in East Prussia, the Wolfschance, between the German leader and Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler of the Schutzstaffel (SS). Among the items, the twelfth and final record in the SS Chief’s brief minutes is Thählmann’s name followed by the words “is to be executed”. The KPD Leader would be secretly transferred under the cover of darkness from his prison cell in Bautzen to Buchenwald Concentration Camp, where he would be liquidated. On 17 August, the commissioned officer in charge of Buchenwald’s crematorium, Oberscharführer Warnsted, received a telephone call instructing him to “heat up” one of the ovens, apparently they had been shut down in response to Allied activity in the region, in preparation for an emergency cremation. Around midnight, eight SS men entered the crematorium, among them Stabsscharführer Wolfgang Otto and Oberscharführer Werner Berger. According to Polish prisoner Marian Zgoda, an eyewitness standing outside of the crematorium, a “large passenger car” pulled up shortly after midnight. Thälmann got out of the automobile, accompanied by two guards dressed in civilian clothes, one on either side. Immediately after the three men entered the courtyard of the crematorium, Zgoda heard three shots. Thählmann apparently said nothing before his death, nor did he cry out in surprise. All Zgoda reported hearing was a thud as the Communist Leader’s body fell to the ground. Shortly thereafter he heard the fourth gunshot, this evidently from inside the crematorium building Otto and Berger had shot Thälmann. His body was cremated immediately, camp authorities hoping that their crime would go unnoticed among the inmates. All that was left in the oven the next morning was a pile of ashes and a pocket watch, tempered as a result of having been heated in the oven. Efforts to keep Thählmann’s death secret failed., however, and word of the events of the early hours of 18 August spread quickly through the camp.
      Apparently concerned about international and domestic reaction to the outright murder of one of its most celebrated political prisoners, the Hitler regime sought to keep secret the circumstances surrounding the Communist Leader’s death. The 16 September 1944 issue of the official Nazi Party newspaper , Völkischer Beobachter, announced not only Thählmann’s demise, but also that of the prominent Social Democrat Rudolf Breitscheid, likewise the victim of Nazi thugs. This official account, however, refused to accept responsibility for the deaths, insisting, that the two had died as a result of a 28 August Allied air raid. From the outset, almost no one believed the official version of events, and word soon spread concerning the Communist Leader’s true fate. The result was an outpouring of propaganda produced by the Third Reich’s enemies on the political left. The KPD Leader’s death provided German communism with its most significant antifascist martyr. The most immediate result of the events of 17-18 August 1944 was that the KPD Chief, who had long served as the arch-type of the determined antifascist fighter, came to represent all those Communists who had given their lives in the fight against Hitler and National Socialism. Thälmann’s death at the hands of the Nazi assassins made him the stuff of legend.
      [My own opinion: Although he was basically a scoundrel who stole Party Funds for his own use, an effective myth was created later on in East Germany under Soviet rule, very much the same as Horst Wessel for the NS Regime, who in effect lived off the earnings of his prostitute girl friend.]

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — April 23, 2015 @ 8:12 pm

      • What do you know about Russell Lemmons, the author of this book? Whose side is he on? From what I was able to find out, when I googled him, he lives in America. Is he a Communist? Is he a hater of the German people?

        In my blog post, I presented both sides of the story. Does he tell both sides of the story in his book?

        From my research, I learned that Ernst Thählmann was in prison for 11 years, then all of a sudden, Hitler orders his death at a time when the British were bombing Buchenwald. Sounds suspicious to me.

        Comment by furtherglory — April 24, 2015 @ 7:03 am

        • FG
          Russel Lemmons, professor of history at Jacksonville State University, is hardly a communist. His book “Hitler’s Rival ” is well researched and almost accurate to the point of conditions that prevailed in Germany during the Hitler period from 1933 onwards. As I mentioned before Thählmann was in my opinion a despicable individual as far back as his service goes during WW I when he not only absconded, but ensured that he and his (3) mates would temper with artillery ammunition so that they became duds. His assassination was one of the lesser evils that took place during the NS-Regime and was as far as National Socialism was concerned a necessity. His so-called murder did gave East German Leaders the impetuous to create an effective myth of his personality that never existed, it influenced youth, (including my own sister) to an extend that it became a State Religion.
          Admittedly there are still sections of the German population that revere him to this day, monuments and plaques highlighting his struggle can still be seen in a number of cities, yet there was the tendency even prior to 1933 not to be associated with a Marxism-Linism doctrine he preached, that was controlled by the Russians. This was one of the reasons Hitler gave the masses an alternative and they simple changed from Red to Brown.
          PS: Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxenburg founded the KPD in Germany and paid the price in 1919, the official report reads: “Liebknecht shot whilst attempting to escape. Rosa Luxemburg lynched by an infuriated crowd”. This was a typical lie of Nazi thugs.

          Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — April 24, 2015 @ 9:05 pm

      • You might like to read about what it was like when I visited Buchenwald in 1999. I wrote about my trip on this page of my website: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/GettingThere.html

        When I saw Buchenwald in 1999, I was literally speechless. At that time, I could speak German well enough to get along in the former West Germany. But when I got to Weimar in the former East Germany, I found that literally no one could speak English, and no one could understand my American version of German. I was very much aware that I was in the former Communist East Germany. The German people in the former East Germany were not as nice as the German people in West Germany, where I had traveled several times.

        I did not trust the information given at the Buchenwald Memorial Site, but of course, I didn’t say anything, for fear of being arrested.

        Comment by furtherglory — April 24, 2015 @ 7:40 am

  2. Thanks for finally talking about >What really happened
    to Ernst Thälmann? | Scrapbookpages Blog <Liked it!

    Comment by ebooks uk — September 7, 2014 @ 5:33 pm

  3. What evidence is there that he was actually shot?

    Comment by Giordan Smith — September 19, 2013 @ 9:37 pm

    • I was not there and can not answer your question. He certainly did not die of natural causes, nor did he have a state funeral!

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — September 20, 2013 @ 1:10 am

  4. Comrade Charu Mazumdar Amar Hai you probably have lived in a country with a predominately left leaning Regime, which used a systematic use of famine on a massive scale and now enjoy the freedom of speech. Remember that in the period after 1918, only Communist countries experienced such famines, which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, and in some cases millions, of people. And again in 1980, two African countries, hopefully you have been made aware , that claimed to be Marxist-Leninist, Ethiopia and Mozambique, were the only such countries suffered these deadly famines. A preliminary global accounting of the crimes committed by Communist Regimes whose Leaders you seem to admire shows the following:
    1. The execution of tens of thousands of hostages and prisoners without trial, and murder of hundreds of thousands rebellious or workers and peasants from 1918 to 1922
    2. The famine of 1922, which caused the deaths of 5 million people
    3. The extermination and deportation of the Don Cossacks in 1920
    4. The murder of tens of thousands in concentration camps from 1918 to 1930
    5. The liquidation of almost 690,000 people in the Great Purge of 1937-38
    6. The destruction of 4 million Ukrainians and 2 million others by means of an artificial and systematic perpetuated famine in 1932-33
    7. The deportation of hundreds and thousands of Poles, Ukrainians, Balts, Moldovians, and Bessarabians from 1939 to 1941, and again in 1944-45
    8. The deportation of the Volga Germans in 1941
    9. The wholesale deportation of Crimean Tatars in 1943
    10. The deportation and extermination of the urban population in Cambodia from 1975 to 1978
    11. The slow destruction of the Tibetans by the Chinese since 1950
    No list of crimes committed in the name of Leninism and Stalinism would be complete without mentioning the virtually identical crimes committed by the regimes of Mao Zedong, Kim Il Sung, and Pol Pot. Comrade Ernst Thählmann who was a puppet of Moscow would have acted along the same lines if he had ever become Chancellor of Germany, very few people regret his death, no matter how it was executed, and in your case Comrade Hai, I suggest you pack your bag and enter North Korea. Let me know upon your arrival!

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 27, 2013 @ 1:03 am

  5. Ernst Thälmann was a hero just like Claus von Staufenberg. Both men were miles apart, but both fought against Hitler. Many communists supported Stalin because he was the leader of the USSR since 1924. Most right-wing conservatives in the world supported Ronald Regan during the 80’s and George W. Bush between 2001 and 2008. I’m not a Stalinist and I would have criticised Ernst Thälmann for his Stalinist line. But he was a early Stalinist who might have opposed Stalin, had he seen how evil that man was. Hans Beimler was also a Stalinist, but he went to the USSR after 1933 and became very critical about Stalin. Beimler left Stalin’s Empire and fought in Spain were he was killed by either the fascists or by the Stalinist NKVD.

    To say that Ernst Thälmann should not be honoured only because he supported Stalin since 1928 is wrong. Because Claus von Staufenberg supported fascism till 1944. Yes, he was a fascist and supported the killing of communists, social democrats and all left-wing people. The German bourgeoisie supported Hitler, win-out the support of the conservative; German National People Party, the NSDAP could never got the majority in the Reichstag. The capitalists of Germany loved Adolf Hitler, because he destroyed the communists and the social democrats.

    That is why I say that Ernst Thälmann is a hero to the working-class. He made mistakes and supported Stalin. But Staufenberg supported Hitler and Winston Churchill wanted to keep the British Empire intact after 1945. Yet Churchill is a hero to many people because he fought against Hitler. After the end of stalinism in 1989, Ernst Thälmann has been forgotten by the Germans. Only the people who lived the German Democratic Republic know him. The cult of Ernst Thälmann in the GDR was wrong and I opposed any cult of personality. But we should never forget that man who lived 11 years in Nazi prisons and never gave up fighting!

    Comment by Jorein Versteege — December 7, 2011 @ 3:11 am


    • This is and was the memory of the East Germans had of Thälmann, I hope you are able to listen to it and decide if you would have him as President of the USA. Another point is, he was in Russia and saw the Stalin System in December 1926 after he stole the Party Funds with one of his friends. Your political philosophy confuses me a bit, the fact remains he was shot during the night from the 17th to the 18th August 1944 at the entrance to the crematorium ovens at Buchenwald and was immediately cremated. Oh yes, his daughter did write children’s stories in East Germany, just guess what she told them!
      I would like to correct my previous figures of the election results,I was wrong about Thälmann’s figure: April 10, 1932, the day of the second round of election for President, was dark and rainy, and a million fewer citizens cast their votes. The results announced late that night were:
      Hindenburg 19 359 983 53%
      Hitler 13 418 547 36.8%
      Thälmann 3 706 759 10.2%

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — December 8, 2011 @ 4:04 am

      • Yes he was part of the Wittorf affair. That is why he was removed from the Central Committee, yet Stalin wanted him as KPD leader so he reinstalled. The Stalinist system in Russia was not all powerful in 1926. Joseph Stalin was strong, but not yet the full dictator. He needed the support of Nicolai Bukharin and others to keep himself in power. Beside the true evil of Stalin came after 1929. The stalinists needed the years between 1924 and 1929 to build their power and remove all anti-Stalin Bolsheviks from leading positions ( like Trotsky ).

        I wonder if Ernst Thälmann would have become like Walter Ulbricht and Erich Honecker? Would he have supported the GDR and the Stalinist bureaucracy? We don’t know! Yet for his fight against fascism he is to be remembered as a hero. Claus von Staufenberg was a supporter of Hitler and of German Imperialism. Yet he started to oppose Hitler and he tried to kill him. I think both men were hero’s. Hero’s are not always perfect and noble. Ernst Thälmann was a Stalinist and Claus von Staufenberg was a supporter of German Imperialism. But their fight against fascism makes them hero’s in my eyes, just like any allied soldier ( both soviet and western ).

        If Ernst Thälmann remained loyal to the ideals of socialist democracy and proletarian internationalism, I would support him. But if he would degenerated into a Stalinist conservative ( Like Ulbricht and Honecker ) I would oppose him. Unfortunately he was jailed and killed before the GDR was founded.

        Comment by Jorein Versteege — March 1, 2012 @ 4:57 am

        • Ernst Thälmann did supported Stalin. But that doesn’t mean he was pure evil. His failure lies in his blind idealism and trust into Stalin. That is the different between stalinists and nazi’s. Nazi’s are evil, they hate and they believe in the rule of the strongest race. Stalinists believe that their dictatorship is good for workers and that the communist party is always right. They are guided by idealism that blinds them from the true. It is still to see how Ernst Thälmann would have lived had he survived world war 2. He would have become a tool of Stalin and Walter Ulbricht. Or he would have supported the workers rebellion in 1953, be jailed or killed by his own people.

          Comment by Jorein Versteege — March 1, 2012 @ 5:08 am

          • FG-Thälmann
            The Buchenwald prisoners Walter Hummelsheim assured, however in 1945, during an inquiry that Thälmann was shot only four or five days after the bombing of the camp, along with nine other communists in the stable area of the camp. The murdered people there had never been included in the official death list (Totenbuch). The Polish prisoner Marian Zgoda did in fact hide behind a pile of coal and has observed directly the executions.. Zgoda testified before the District Court of Krefeld, he heard one of the shooters affirm the question of another, whether it was Thälmann to be shot. According to this statement one of the alleged offenders was the SS staff sergeant Wolfgang Otto. After a multi-year process Otto was acquitted in 1988 in the Federal Republic. The SS Sergeant Werner Berger and SS First Lieutenant Erich Gust were also accused in connection with the murder of Thälmann.
            Whether Thälmann was actually shot on the date specified in Buchenwald, remains unclear. According to recent research, it is equally possible that he was killed by the Buchenwald professional criminals and Kapo Miller or even murdered in Bautzen. Another version says that the order to murder demanded absolute secrecy, so the camp commandant at Buchenwald ordered not an SS firing squad, but the Transport Command, which had brought Thälmann, and ordered them to shoot him on the spot.
            The controversy will remain.
            PS.:Princess Mafalda von Hessen sustained considerable wounds during the Air Raid 24.8.1944 and lived for another four days, due to the loss of blood and a badly performed amputation of her left arm she died 28.8.1944

            Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 2, 2012 @ 7:16 pm

    • It is nonsense that supporting Comrade Stalin would make Thaelmann a non-hero or less than a hero. Comrade Thaelmann was a hero to the working classes as much as Comrade Stalin is. Unfortunately the bourgeois propaganda is such that they attribute to Stalin all the evil they committed in the entire world.

      Colonialists of the Western European countries and Americans caused immense human suffering to further their profits but they never recognize that their leaders are monsters. Who bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Not Comrade Stalin. We never hear a whiff of criticism of the monster Truman who wanted to show American military dominance and used the Japanese cities as laboratories. And for that matter, who raped Nanking? Not Comrade Stalin. The emperor of Japan was not even prosecuted as a war criminal. Who enslaved the entire continent of Africa and rounded up the people there to be sent in chains as slaves? Not Comrade Stalin. Those slave owners and torturers are now regarded in the United States as “founding fathers”. Every American, Canadian, Australian, British, French, Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese and Italian leader who committed genocide driving the native dwellers into extinction should be called a monster. Comrade Stalin is the true hero of the workers and that is why the capitalists are still shivering at the very thought of the mighty leader.

      Comment by Charu Mazumdar Amar Hai — March 26, 2013 @ 5:35 pm

  6. Who was Ernst Thälmann?
    You can read all about him, just google Wikipedia the free Encyclopedia which is in German but is very comprehensive and objective, there are also a shorter version of his life in English. He was a scoundrel, with limited intellect, who wanted to create a workers paradise in Germany after WWI, a Communist linked to the Comintern a member of the German Reichstag and stood for President during the Weimar Republic, but from memory he received only 1% of the total votes in the end.
    My own opinion is that he was shot. There is a hand written note by Heinrich Himmler, of a meeting with Adolf Hitler at the Wolf’s Lair, August 14th 1944, in the show case 4/31 in the former repository of KZ Buchenwald which reads “12. Thälmann ist zu exekutieren” (Thälmann is to be executed)

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — May 23, 2011 @ 12:19 am

  7. “Gentlemen”? I came to this site to find out who Ernst Thalmann was, however, it appears this site is mostly an argument among primarily two people trying to justify themselves. Off the topic by a long shot!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Peter Baranow — May 22, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

  8. Dear Gasan
    I have written my “war time experience and events” which is on my blog:
    http://dachaukz.blogspot.com/
    I will gladly answer any question you or others may have arising out of the comments I have made.
    Kind Regards

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 21, 2011 @ 2:06 am

  9. Dear Gasan
    I do not remember the name of the SS-NCO he was only an Unterscharfuehrer and we addressed him as such and “DU” not the respectfully “SIE” as was normal practice nor ever “HERR” Hauptmann as in the Wehrmacht.This applied to the officer ranks as well.They would reply:”Bei uns gibt es keine Herren”.I think it was done to create a spirit of comraderie.One for all,all for one.
    We were taught and preached the rules of warfare,except when it came to the Russuians.
    It was later on in POW Camps by others(not SS)that some of them had been used as human shields but survived

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 18, 2011 @ 8:47 pm

  10. Mr. Stolpmann,
    This is very impressive. You should qualify for “Das Schützenschnur”. Hope, you will be able to do the same on your next birthday. Do you remember the name of that SS NCO? He did what he had to do under circumstances. Did the American forces use those captured SS PWO’s as “human shields? If so, that would be the most disgraceful tactic ever.
    I believe that you or Günter Grass had not been taught of such tactics in SS units.

    Comment by Gasan — March 18, 2011 @ 7:52 pm

  11. Dear Gasan
    I was aware of Guenter Grass’s writings and his so called admission of his “guilt” that he had deceived the public in general after he had received the Nobel Price and pressure was mounting mainly from the Jewish Lobby to strip him of the honors he had received. I have read most of his books.
    As he was one year older than I am he had seen more action than I did. But in respect of his call up into the “hated” SS he had not much choice. Our background are very much the same ,I attended the Gymnasium in Lauenburg at first and then the Staatliche Arndt Schule in Berlin Dahlem when my call-up arrived at the end of 1944 for training at an Reichsausbidungslager to become a Hilfsausbilder which was run by the SS.
    My own fighting was mainly limited to rear action retreats when Wehrmacht Units had deserted the front lines and only small platoons of SS-men would stand their ground and we were often attached to them. I can give you only one typical example when we were under the command of a pleasant SS NCO who had the Ritterkreuz which was rarely received by lower ranks.But when it came to a fight he was a KILLER.
    I had been given orders with another three men to hold a crossroad with a heavy MG 42 at all costs to ensure a fairly save retreat of some of our own company that were trapped behind advancing American armored columns. We never liked their tactics which we called cowboy methods. To make a long story short. One of their half tracks was stopped by us and to get an advantage over us had to cross the road. To do this they (the Americans,we generally called them AMIS), used two captured SS-men to carry jerry cans with petrol across the terrain in front of them and crawled behind them. As we would give a burst of machine gun fire for any movements,we shot and killed two SS-men.
    I did not see the advance and fight that took place, but it was short, swift and ruthless by my pleasent SS NCO to revenge the death of two SS-POW’s. He and his platoon did not take any prisoners!
    How good was my training by the SS? Very thorough. To give you an example,at my last birthday one of my sons took me to his Pistol Club, and I quote out of their Newsletter.November Shoot.”Congratulations to Her who, at 82 years young, and never having shot competive pistol before,out-shot and out-scored all who were game enough to stand in opposition…well done Herb!”
    I never told them of my past, when I was asked were I had learned how to shot like that.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 18, 2011 @ 5:00 pm

  12. Mr. Stolpmann,
    You are correct. The current prime minister of Poland Donald Tusk is an ethnic Kashubian.

    Comment by Gasan — March 17, 2011 @ 10:31 pm

  13. Mr. Stolpmann,
    The name of the writer of Kashubian ethnicity, who has received the Nobel Price is Günter Grass.
    He received the Nobel Price in literature, mainly for his highly acclaimed book “Die Blechtrommel”.
    (“The Tin Drum”) I am translating this for non-German speaking readers of this blog.
    Apparently, has admitted, he was drafted into a SS unit at the end of the war.
    Here is his biography:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass
    I have read several of his books (“Katz und Maus”, “Örtlich betäubt”, “Das Treffen in Telgte”) but never read the “Die Blechtrommel, but have seen the movie.
    Günter Grass is one year older then you and that means he was under eighteen years old at the end of the war.
    Here are some parts of his biography:
    Grass attended the Danzig Gymnasium Conradinum. He volunteered for submarine service with the Kriegsmarine “to get out of the confinement he felt as a teenager in his parents’ house” which he considered – in a negative way – civic Catholic lower middle class.[3][4] In 1943 he became a Luftwaffenhelfer, then he was drafted into the Reichsarbeitsdienst, and in November 1944, shortly after his seventeenth birthday, into the Waffen-SS. The seventeen-year-old Grass saw combat with the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg from February 1945 until he was wounded on 20 April 1945 and sent to an American POW camp.

    Does it sound pretty much as your wartime story?

    Now, it is getting even more interesting:

    Grass was trained as a tank gunner and fought with the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg until its surrender to U.S. forces at Marienbad. In 2007, Grass published an account of his wartime experience in The New Yorker, including an attempt to “string together the circumstances that probably triggered and nourished my decision to enlist.”.[10] To the BBC, Grass said in 2006:” It happened as it did to many of my age. We were in the labour service and all at once, a year later, the call-up notice lay on the table. And only when I got to Dresden did I learn it was the Waffen-SS.[11]” : That makes him a war hero, right? He was a 17 years old tank gunner and patriot who had been chosen to fight in an elite unite. Does it make him a war criminal?” “It happened as it did to many of my age. We were in the labour service and all at once, a year later, the call-up notice lay on the table. And only when I got to Dresden did I learn it was the Waffen-SS.[11] Joachim Fest, conservative German journalist, historian and biographer of Adolf Hitler, told the German weekly Der Spiegel about Grass’s disclosure: “After 60 years, this confession comes a bit too late. I can’t understand how someone who for decades set himself up as a moral authority, a rather smug one, could pull this off.[12]” “Too late” for a “confession”? What confession this idiot was talking about? The seventeen-years old was drafted to an elite SS unit 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg, formerly known as SS division “Charlemagne”and they did not participate in any “holocausts”. What confession should he make? Killing “six million jews” with his tank gun? Unfortunately, Günter Grass, who is a leftist by all definitions, does not defend himself and is accepting his “guilt” of being a member of the SS formations. So sad, for a great writer of the magnitude of Goethe and Schiller.

    Comment by Gasan — March 17, 2011 @ 10:16 pm

  14. Dear Gasan
    Thank you ever so much explaining in detail facts of the Geneva convention which was completely distorted during my school days as well as the military training I received.
    I was aware that Ost-Pommern were I come from was populated what we called “Die Kaschuben”, which had been germanized and are not Poles but a slavic tribe and most enterprizing,yet they pushed those that did not make the “grade” onto the coastal strip of the Baltic Sea.
    A number of prominent German writers(one I believe received a Nobel Price) and scientists are of Kaschuben descendants,so is the present Prime Minister of Poland and the frosty relationship which existed with Germany with those two twins has been resolved.

    I am trying to get my blog regarding my POW time together but my health is not the best and I write only in my more lucid moments after radiation treatment for cancer.
    Kind Regards

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 17, 2011 @ 12:49 am

  15. Mr. Stolpmann,
    Thanks for asking this question. Also, I am very flattered that you are referring to me and other folks here as
    “scholars”. Well, we are trying our best.
    There are four Geneva Conventions of 1864, 1906, 1929, and 1949.
    Here is the list of the countries which signed the first one:
    Baden (now Germany)
    Belgium
    Denmark
    France
    Hesse (now Germany)
    Italy
    Netherlands
    Portugal
    Prussia (now Germany)
    Spain
    Switzerland
    Württemberg (now Germany)
    Only Fourth Convention of 1949 have addressed the treatment of civilian population. Technically, none of the counties participating in WWII could have violated it. There is a legal term “ex post facto” law, or retroactive law, which is prohibited in most of the countries including yours, mine. All Nuremberg Trials fit the definition of “ex post facto”.
    Here is the Article 49 of Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949.
    Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.
    “Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.
    The Occupying Power undertaking such transfers or evacuations shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition, and that members of the same family are not separated.
    The Protecting Power shall be informed of any transfers and evacuations as soon as they have taken place.
    The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.
    The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”
    Mr. Stolpmann,
    There are no specific provisions about settling people close to military installations of any kind.
    Your question was not quite specific as far as which countries you were referring to.
    NS Germany created a new district Warthegau, in the former German territory lost to Poland because of the Treaty of Versailles of 1919. Apparently some of the Polish inhabitants were deported to General Governance of Poland. This is the area around city of Posen (Poznan in Polish).
    This is a relatively small area and the numbers of people deported could not be even close to 50,000. However, after the war, more than 12 million Germans were permanently displaced from the their homeland located now in modern Poland as well as “Czechoslovakia”, which no longer exists.
    And here is something new, a have found, while doing this research.
    The South Tyrol Option Agreement (German: Option in Südtirol; Italian: Opzioni in Alto Adige).
    “On 21 October 1939, Adolf Hitler and Mussolini reached agreement on the assimilaton of the ethnic German and Ladin-speaking minorities in the province. The members of these two language communities had until 31 December 1939 to choose between remaining i

    On 21 October 1939, Adolf Hitler and Mussolini reached agreement on the assimilation of the ethnic German and Ladin-speaking minorities in the province. The members of these two language communities had until 31 December 1939 to choose between remaining in Italy and losing all minority rights, or emigrating to the Nazi Germany, the so called “Option für Deutschland” (option for Germany).

    n Italy and losing all minority rights, or emigrating to the Nazi Germany, the so called “Option für Deutschland” (option for Germany).”

    So, how fair is that? You are given an option being a German, and move out or choose to be an Italian in order to remain in the country. Both Germany and Italy were seeking to build minority-free societies. Apparently, Hitler has no territorial disputes with Mussolini and recognized his right to be the ruler of Italy and those who chose to be the Italians, no matter what was their ethnic background. Those who wanted to remain Germans were given a chance to move to the Reich. I appears to me the same thing happened in Warthegau. The Poles who wanted to become the Germans were allowed to stay and others were asked to move General Governance of Poland.

    Since you have born in Pomerania region of Germany, you know that most of the “Poles” living there are ethnic “Kashubians”, a trilingual minority which speaks Polish, German and their own dialect which is a combination of both.

    I hope you are feeling well and wish you the best.

    Sincerely,

    Gasan

    Comment by Gasan — March 16, 2011 @ 9:59 pm

  16. Dear Gasan and any other scholar
    I have never received a satisfactory answer to my question as to the conduct of war and the Geneva convention:
    Does a country that is waging war allowed to settle it’s own people within a radius of X-number of miles of a military installation on the land that it has conquered?
    If not why not?

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 15, 2011 @ 12:30 am

  17. Dear Gasan and Harry Bag
    I can not provide you with evidence on a border incedent at Boschpol some few miles south from were we lived,but pictures were published at that time in the “Lauenburger Zeitung” and I have seen them as a yougster mylef and the images are still clear in my mind.As the NS propaganda machine was running at full steam at that time it is difficult to tell what
    was fact,what was fabrication for German public’s consumption.
    I do not for one single moment believe that Germany’s request through the corridor although it was a reasonable one and Polands rejection was reason enough for an attack. As a matter of fact in 1938 with Chamberlain waving his piece of paper”Peace in our life time”,there were massive amoured Tank Units ready to roll into Poland right were we lived and withdrew within a week,how exited I was at the age of 10 to see such a concentration of troops!Hitler held off for another year as he needed a treaty with Russia to avoid fighting on two fronts.The purpose of Hitler’s invasion was to get rid of the Poles once and for all.The only one that was ready to roll through Europe was Stalin,he had over 200 armoured divisions when the non-aggression pact was signed by Ribbentrop which he (Stalin) had to withdraw further east according to the agreement.In other words Stalin would have rolled through to the Rhein within a matter of months!His aim of spreading communism as far west as possible came through at the Potzdam Agreement to carve up central Europe.When the Oder-Neisse-Line was established, (there are two rivers Neisse)he said oh no not that one,here is the border 500 km to the west!
    The territory you are referring to is Oberschlesien,(populated with Volksdeutsche that spoke more Polish than German and had little time for Hitler)which had always been in dispute,rich on coal and other resources.It was absolutely vital that Germany kept it, as it had no access to oil and built the so called Hedrierwerke in Poelitz near Stettin at the mouth of the Oder river to produce Petrol from coal.Barges full of coal flowed on a massive scale down the river. I have been there, one of my uncles had a Milk Treatment Plant in Koepitz and was a constant for allied bombing raids.
    So who can tell what events took place behind locked beween policy makers to fire the first shot.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 11, 2011 @ 7:30 pm

    • PS>a)I made a few errors … the Hedrierwerke were a constant TARGET for allied bombing raids.
      b)Last line should read behind LOCKED doors…
      Also between “friends”one of my sons is married to an American girl,living in Michigan,when she told me that she descended from Polish parents my heart missed a beat,he could not ask for a better partner and we love her.How the world has changed!

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 11, 2011 @ 8:42 pm

  18. Mr. Stolpmann,
    I am apologizing for cutting off this discussion and would like to make some of my points. Since you were living German territory, which was not in dispute between Poland in Germany, it is possible that you have not seen the concentration of Polish troops near your border. Well, Gleiwitz and Beuthen are far South from your former neighborhood and that was the territory Poland wanted.
    It seems to me that you don’ believe that Poland wanted to attack Germany. Please watch this pre-war polish propaganda video. At around 1:40 of running time, you will see the simulated map where Poland absorbs Germany including Czech Protectorate.

    You could also read the documents, such as letters of Polish Ambassador to the USA Count Jerzy Potocki, who has reported that President Franklin D Roosevelt was inciting the war in Europe.
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

    This does explain why Poland was so disagreeable about reasonable requests made by Germany.

    You have mentioned that there were staged attacks on German soil, performed by KZ inmates, dressed in Polish uniforms. How come that we don’t have those pictures and the reports at this moment? Where are those photos and the reprints of German papers verifying the incidents, one way or another.
    I will read the book “Zwischen Krone und Kerker” by Prince Schaumburg-Lippe; it does sound interesting.
    If you feel, that I was somewhat rude or tactless in my responding comments, please accept my sincere apologies. But, your personal wartime story made me even stronger in my opinions of what happened almost 80 years ago.

    Respectfully Yours.
    Gasan

    Comment by Gasan — March 10, 2011 @ 9:44 pm

    • There are many, many books detailing “facts” on all aspects of WW2. There is someting there for everybody, providing “evidence” to “prove” guilt/innocence in respect of many facets of the war – ranging from “who started it” to “was there a holocaust at all?”.

      Gasan clearly comes from the school of revisionist history, with a thinly veiled agenda. Yawn…

      Comment by Harry Bag — March 11, 2011 @ 12:42 pm

      • Yawn right back at you, Harry Bug. Which school do you represent? From your concise and meaningless comment, it is very hard to establish.

        Comment by Gasan — March 13, 2011 @ 8:09 pm

  19. Dear Readers and others
    Regarding the border skirmishes of Poland, these took place on a number of places not only in the region of Gleiwitz or Beuten as Gasan claims. I lived in the far north-east in the county of Lauenburg,where an staged attack of KZ inmates in Polish Uniforms at Boschpol had been performed and well publisized.All “Poles” had been shot.Picture were shown in newspapers.
    My grandfather had land-holdings at Schlochow right at the tip of Germany some land close to the boarder of Poland.We never expected a Polish attack of any kind with whom we had traded with across the border,there were no troop movements on the other side,however,we took precautions by removing irreplaceable heavy harvest machinery and other equipments into nearby woods, as only polish raiding parties could be expected, that would torch buildings etc and leave.Yet nothing ever happened.
    As the country side was fairly flat it was an ideal terrain for German tanks,which rolled through very quickly further south.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 10, 2011 @ 2:46 pm

  20. Dear Gasan and readers
    I think that very few people will have access to the Nuernberg Trials documents nor want to read them,in Germany in general it was considered a sham and would use unprintable language if you only metioned any subject thereof.
    As I am fluent in French,German,Latin, Russian and my English is reasonable, I have often asked myself what and where did Germany go wrong and why.So I try to find answers through books but would never pass rigid judgment or state an opinion what has been written.As I am nearing the end of my expected life cycle I have only one regret that I never informed mothers that their sons were killed or shot for a lost cause,though I had the means and all the information to do so.
    When it comes to W.L.Shirer,within the short period of twelve years,which was the life span of the Third Reich,there occurred the most cataclysmic series of events that Western civilisation has ever known.W.Shirer has had the advantage of being able to read the massive output of memoirs by those who took part in these events.He was present at the Nuernberg Trials.In addition he is one of the few who had have access to the full volume of German official documents captured in tact by the Allies and only made avaiable for a short period by the American authorities in 1955. His writing is accurate and without prejudice,I do not know if he is still alive.
    When it comes to Naujocks he was involved in an undertaking to disguise German soldiers in Dutch and Belgian frontier guard uniforms at the time of the invasion of the West in May 1940.Early in the war,he managed a section of the SD which forged passports.Heydrich eventually tired of him and forced him to serve in the ranks of an SS regiment in Russia,where he was wounded.In 1944 he returned to Belgium as an economic adviser,but his principal function was the murder of Danish resistance fighters.He probably deserted to the American Army in Belgium to save his neck.In fact he had a charmed life.Held as a war criminal,he made a dramatic escape from a special camp in Germany for war criminals in 1946 and thus escaped trial. He has never been apprehended or heard of.There is a German book about the subject “Zwischen Krone und Kerker,but then you do not read books.As you say,sorry all dicussions are over!
    Have a good day

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 9, 2011 @ 2:25 am

  21. Mr. Stolpmann,
    It seems that you are bringing more and more things into the discussion. I am glad that you have accepted the point, that Hitler’s “speech” of August 22, 1939 was fabricated.
    Now, let us discuss the Gleiwtitz incident.
    Naujocks’ testimony, as recorded:
    COL. STOREY: I now offer in evidence Document 2751-PS, which is Exhibit USA-482. It is an affidavit of Alfred Helmut Naujocks, dated November 20, 1945. This affidavit particularly refers to the actual occurrences in connection with the Polish border incident. I believe it was referred to by the Witness Lahousen when he was on the stand”
    Unfortunately, you quoted his testimony not quite correct; maybe you have been using a wrong source of information:
    Your quote:
    “I went to Gleiwitz and waited for 14 days.”
    Original document:
    “I went to Gleiwitz and waited there a fortnight.”
    At the end of document:
    “sworn to and subscribed to before Lieutenant Martin”.
    Let me explain to you: Most of the Americans do not understand British/English word “fortnight”, which means “two weeks” or fourteen night, literally, and this word is not being used in the US at all.
    Read the above: this is Exhibit USA-482. ”
    Another serious blunder:
    “Muller stated that he had 12 or 13 condemned criminals who were to be dressed in Polish uniforms and left dead on the ground at the scene of the incident to show that they had been killed while attacking.”
    and then:
    The incident at Gleiwitz in which I participated was carried out on the evening preceding the German attack on Poland. As I recalls war broke out on the 1st of September 1939. At noon on the 31st of August I received by telephone from Heydrich the code word for the attack which was to take place at 8 o’clock that evening. Heydrich said, ‘In order to carry out this attack, report to Muller for “Canned Goods.”‘ I did this and gave Muller instructions to deliver the man near the radio station. I received this man and had him laid down at the entrance to the station. He was alive, but he was completely unconscious. I tried to open his eyes. I could not recognize by his eyes that he was alive, only by his breathing. I did not see the shot wounds, but a lot of blood was smeared across his face. He was in civilian clothes.”
    Don’t you see a problem here? SS Gruppenführer Heinrich Müller had offered 12-13 fully dressed criminals in polish uniform, but Naujocks received only one in CIVILIAN clothes.
    Naujocks was a traitor to his country and wrote a false testimony. Don’t you see that? He accused SS Gruppenführer Heinrich Müller of just a possibility of killing of 12-13 criminals, but he would be charged for that as a co-conspirator, so, he changed the story to on unknown civilian killed before and there is no guilt of his own. Very convenient. Naujocks lied.
    The bottom line is: Adolf Hitler did not need accident in Gleiwitz to happen after Polish forces had already fired at Beuthen (now Bytom, Poland) and twenty other locations. The WWII was started by Poland and her backers England, France and USA.
    As far as William Shirer book.
    Do you really believe, I need to read that one? You wanted me to admit that he is the acknowledged (I think, you have meant “acclaimed”) as one of the greatest of all American foreign correspondents.
    Sorry, I didn’t read the book which is probably a 50 years old and, most likely, consists only wartime propaganda information.
    Is the Naujocks’ bogus story in that book as well?
    Why would I read Shirer’s book, when I could read original Naujocks’ testimony and make judgement for myself?

    Comment by Gasan — March 8, 2011 @ 9:05 pm

  22. Daer Gason and other readers.

    Lebensraum,German for “living space”was one of the major political ideas of Adolf Hitler and an important part of the Nazi ideology,yet the term was coined by Fritz Ratzel in 1901.Hitler’s book “Mein Kampf”(a mumble jumble of political phrases and I have never read it) detailed his belief that the German people needed Lebensraum,land and raw materials and it should be found in the East.It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill,deport,or enslave the Polish,Russian and other Slavic populations who they considered inferior(Untermenschen) and repopulate the land with Germanic people.The entire population was to be exterminated by starvation.Poland and the Ukraine to be cleared of their inhabitants and resettled with Germans.
    As the American historian Gerhard Weinberg noted,the desire for Lebensraum was the key tenet of several nationalists in post-World WarI,notably by the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler and went beyond merely regaining Land lost under the treaty of Versailles and instead embraced calls for the conquest and colonization of all Eastern Europe whether the land had belonged to Germany before 1918 or not!
    The practical implementation of the Lebensraum concept began in 1939 with Germany’s occupation of Poland.Ethnic Poles were cleared out of their houses so quickly that when colonist arrived they found half-eaten meals on tables and unmade beds that small children had clearly been taken from.
    Later Hitler’s starting of Operation Barbarossa in June 1941 to turn large areas of Soviet territory into German settlements. Nazi theorist Alfred Rosenberg proposed to set up so called Reichskommissariats.
    Now I am open for correction and sympathise in regard to the Palistinian problem with Israeli settlements in the occcopied West Bank.Part of the Geneva Convetion stating the method of warfare,I understand states quite clearly if you conquer land during war time you are allowed to settle your own people within a certain radius of a military installation.Now then, a guard box is a military installation, so the question where you settle your own people is purely academic,unless their is a peace treaty
    Am I wrong?

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 8, 2011 @ 8:53 pm

    • Yes, you are wrong. You are getting your information through other sources than the originals. You have admitted that have never read “Mein Kampf”, thus, you have no idea what is written there. It doesn’t even matter, whether “Mein Kamp” is right or wrong, you still don’t even know what is there and you cannot judge it.
      That means that all of you knowledge is coming from secondary sources.
      That means, you do not research, but rely on mass media.
      Sorry, but all discussions are over.

      Comment by Gasan — March 8, 2011 @ 9:18 pm

  23. Dear Gasan
    I hope you will admit that William Shirer is acknowledged as one of the greatest of all American foreign correspondents. He has lived and worked in London, Paris,Berlin, Vienna and Rome.Between the years 1926 to 1941 he was in Germany for the Chicago Tribune and was one of the last to leave Berlin when Hitler declared war on the United States.
    I do not think I missed the point of Hitlers intention to attack and find a reason for it as it was well known that the Gleiwitz incedent was staged by German Agents.It was Alfred Naujocks a typical product of the SS-Gestapo a sort of intellectual gangster who on October 19, 1944 deserted to the Americans and at Nuernberg made a number of sworn affidavits preserved for history the account of the “incedent” which Hitler used to justify his attack on Poland.
    “On or about August 10,1939,the chief of SD.Heydrich,personally ordered me to similate an attack on the radio station near Gleiwitz near the Polish boarder and make it appear that the attacking force consisted of Poles.Heydrich said”Practical proof is nneded for these attacks of the Poles for the foreign press as well as for German propaganda.My istruction were to seize the radio station and to hold it long enough to permit a Polish-speaking German who would be put to my disposal to broadcast a speech in Polish.Heydrich told me that he expected an attck on Poland by Germany in a few days.I went to Gleiwitz and waited for 14 days.Between the 25th and 31st of August,I went to see Heinrich Mueller,head of the Gestapo, who was then nearby at Oppeln.In my prescence,Mueller dicussed with a mannamed Mehlhorn plans for another boarder incedent,in which it should should be made to appear that Polish soldiers were attacking German troops.Mueller stated that he had 12-13 condemned criminals who were to be dressed in Polish unfiforms and left dead on the ground at the scene of the incedent to show they had been killed while attacking.For the purpose they were to be given fatal injection by a doctor empoyed by Heydrich.Then they were given gunshot wounds.After the incedent members of the press and other persons were to be taken to the spot.Mueller told me he had an order from Heydrich to make one of those criminals available to me for the action at Gleiwitz.The code name by which he referred to these criminals was “Canned Goods”
    At noon August 31st Naujocks related in his Nuernberg affidavit”I received from Heydrich the code word for the attack which was to take place at 8’clock that evening.Heydrich said “In order to carry out this attack report to Mueller for Canned Goods”.I did this and gave Mueller instructions to deliver the man near the radio station.I received him and had him laid down at the entrance to the station.He was alive but completely unconscious.I trid to open his eys.I could not recognize by his eyes that he was alive,only breathing.I did not see the gun wounds but a lot of blood was smeared across his face.He was in civilian clothes.
    We seized the radio station as ordered,broadcast a speech of three to four minutes over an emegency transmitter,fired some pistol shots and left.
    Thus was the faked German attack on th radio station at Gleiwitz which was carried out by SS men in Polish unforms under the direction of Naujocks.
    It would be too long to go further in this Blog to the events that follow,however I do not think that I missed the point as mentiond by you, accepting the fact that Hitlers speech to his Generals was fabricated.
    Any reader interested in the events that followed should read the book written by Shirer”The rise and fall of the third Reich”

    I will comment briefly on the expansionist
    policies of Nazi-Germany and Hitlers belief that the German people needed more Lebensraum at a later stage which started with the above events.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 8, 2011 @ 5:18 am

  24. Mr. Stolpmann,
    You are missing the point. There is no proof that Hitler ever made such a statement. It is a lie.

    Comment by Gasan — March 5, 2011 @ 11:44 am

  25. Dear Gason
    I was fully aware of Hitler’s entire speech and quoted only the most salient part,mamely the elemination of an entire people and culture,not that I loved the Poles,yet it affected our own relations that had an estate in Waldeck Kreis Neustadt and was wiped out dispite the fact they were of German descent.
    We are able to trace our ancesters back to the 1300,Gerhard Stolpmann was a Teutonic Crusader Knight and Bishop from 1417-1427 of Pomersania now called Kwidzyn about 75 south of Danzig.It was a territorial Bishopric which started 1249.
    The Perganda clan (Bascs) broke with the catholic church during the Hugonotten massacre 1572 and bought land near Waldeck.No one was ever seen again after the invasion Sept 1939.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 4, 2011 @ 10:43 pm

  26. Mr Stolpmann,
    Let me address this statement for yours:
    “Shortly after the Gleiwitz incident you mentioned, Hitler did have a meeting August 1939 with his Generals at which he said “I have mobilized the Scull Squads and I command without pity and send men women and children of Polish descent and language to death. This is the only way to gain Lebensraum which we need”.

    According to the American journalist Louis P. Lochner, while stationed in Berlin he received a copy of a speech by Hitler from his “informant”, which he published (in English translation) in his book What About Germany? (New York: Dodd, Mead & Co., 1942) as being indicative of Hitler’s desire to conquer the world. In 1945, Lochner handed over a transcript of the German document he had received to the prosecution at the Nuremberg trials, where it was labeled L-3. Hence it is known as the L-3 document.

    Now, here is the full quote:
    “Unsere Stärke ist unsere Schnelligkeit und unsere Brutalität. Dschingis Khan hat Millionen Frauen und Kinder in den Tod gejagt, bewußt und fröhlichen Herzens. Die Geschichte sieht in ihm nur den großen Staatengründer. Was die schwache westeuropäische Zivilisation über mich behauptet, ist gleichgültig. Ich habe den Befehl gegeben — und ich lasse jeden füsilieren, der auch nur ein Wort der Kritik äußert — daß das Kriegsziel nicht im Erreichen von bestimmten Linien, sondern in der physischen Vernichtung des Gegners besteht. So habe ich, einstweilen nur im Osten, meine Totenkopfverbände bereitgestellt mit dem Befehl, unbarmherzig und mitleidslos Mann, Weib und Kind polnischer Abstammung und Sprache in den Tod zu schicken. Nur so gewinnen wir den Lebensraum, den wir brauchen. Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier?

    Our strength consists in our speed and in our brutality. Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter—with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me. I have issued the command—and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad—that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness—for the present only in the East—with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians.
    A Turkish commentary says:

    This so-called Hitler statement is accepted as a “historical fact” and has been quoted by numerous politicians who support the Armenian cause, in parliamentary debates in North America. It also appears routinely in Armenian propaganda publications.
    … The problem with this linkage is that there is no proof that Hitler ever made such a statement. It is claimed that he referred to the Armenians in the manner cited above, while delivering a secret talk to members of his General Staff, a week prior to his attack on Poland. However, there is no reference to the Armenians in the original texts of the two Hitler speeches delivered on August 22, 1939, published as the official texts in the reliable Nuremberg documents. [6]

    On the other side, Dr. Kevork B. Bardakjian, in a publication entitled Hitler and the Armenian Genocide, published by the Armenian-American Zoryan Institute for Contemporary Armenian Research and Documentation, argues that the L-3 document originates in the notes secretly taken by Wilhelm Canaris (a traitor and British spy, by the way) during the meeting of August 22, 1939:

    To conclude, although its author is unknown, L-3 and its unsigned counterparts 798-PS and 1014-PS originate from the notes Wilhelm Canaris took personally as Hitler spoke on 22 August, 1939. … Although not an “official” record, L-3 is a genuine document and is as sound as the other evidence submitted at Nuremberg

    “… is a genuine document and is as sound as the other evidence submitted at Nuremberg”, as genuine as those “shrunken heads” presented at Nuremberg?

    Comment by Gasan — March 4, 2011 @ 5:18 pm

  27. Dear Gason
    To start with lets briefly look at the German Law System as it existed during the Weimar Republic and during Thaelmann’s time when he was arrested and put under Schutzhaft=Protected Custody.There is no Jury system,you are judged by a panel of Advocates. The Vorstand=President has the option to sentence him or her to a dual method of punishment according to the Buergerliches Strafgestzbuch=Penal Code Book,anyone can look up what the penalty will be either jail or Freiheitsberaubung=Loss of civil right or both.In Taehlmann’s case the charge was Treason,which Hitler knew (he still could read) that the court could only pass a sentence of a maximum 15 years of Freiheitsberaubung=loss of civil right,thus Thaelmann was free and would continue agitating.That was one of the reasons that the trial never went ahead,thus he was kept in a number of jails and was finally brought to Buchenwald and on Hitlers orders shot 1944.Thaelmanns wife and daughter were sent to Ravensbrueck,what happened to them I do not know.However with the signing of the Non-Aggression Pact with the USSR she pleaded with Stalin via the Russian Embassy in Berlin for the release of her husband.Stalin had no time for Thaelmann and left him to his fate.
    In other communist countries particular in East Germany Thaelmann was hailed as a SON OF THE PEOPLE,yet a roque that he was he embezzled Party Funds together with another functionary to line their own pockets.
    Victor Suvorov’s comment that he wore a Red Army Uniform would have been during Lenin’s death were he stood as an honour guard at his bier I doubt that it was during a holiday.
    As to the NSDAP Party Manifesto it had in fact 25 points and the main thrust which could not be achieved without war was the Party’s declaration “Die Zurueckfuehrung aller Deutsche zu einem Gross-Deutschen Reich”=The repatriation of all Germans into a greater German Reich.Poland as a State did not exist until 1923 when West Prussia was annexed and Danzig became a Free State.Shortly after the Gleiwitz incident you mentioned, Hitler did have a meeting August 1939 with his Generals at which he said “I have mobilized the Scull Squads and I command without pity and send men women and children of Polish descent and language to death. This is the only way to gain Lebensraum which we need”.
    On the 1st Sept 39 Germany invaded Poland with devastating consequences and the world changed for ever.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 4, 2011 @ 2:22 pm

  28. Mr. Stolpmann, this is your quote:

    “,,,once the NSDAP’s 24 Party Manifesto was strictly adhered to and we all know what happened then”.
    Guess what,
    I am the one who doesn’t know “what happened then” and I am trying to find out.
    So far, I have learned that Poland attacked Germany on August 31, 1939. by capturing Gleiwitz radio transmitter and broadcasting inflammatory messages. Afterwards, there were 21 attacks on the German towns, especially in Upper Silesia region. The city of Beuthen (now Bytom, Poland) suffered the most. Please remember, that those place were not in territorial dispute by National Socialist Government of Germany, but were disputed by the Poles. The German Government wanted only City of Danzig return to Reich and an exterritorial access to it (1 km wide and 100 km long area for the highway and railroad).
    All of the disputed areas are located hundreds miles North from Gleiwitz and Beuthen.
    I hope, your SS instructor have explained that to you, when you were in training.

    Comment by Gasan — March 2, 2011 @ 9:39 pm

  29. Dear Mr. Stolpmann,
    Thank you for the referral to Pierre Broue and Gorkin books. Unfortunately, those books appear to be written in French and I am not at good command of that language to be able to read them. Also, I rarely using the books, written for profit, as my sources of information and rely mostly on authentic documents, or periodic media, preferably published at the time of the events. The circumstances of death of Ernst Thälmann have very little importance, since he was a provocateur and an agent of foreign country. Viktor Suvorov wrote that Thälmann was wearing The Red Army uniform, while being on vacation in USSR. The National Socialist government of Germany should not have any problems bringing him to try him for espionage and treason, the charges which would warrant a death penalty for Thälmann Don’t you agree?
    You have brought up several interesting names into this discussion: Arkady Maslow and Ruth Fischer.
    Arkady Maslow’s real name was Isaak Jefimowitsch Tschemerinski.
    “Isaak Jefimowitsch Tschemerinski was born into a Jewish merchant family. In 1899, he relocated with his mother and siblings to Berlin, where he attended school (Gymnasium) and thereupon completed studies in piano at a conservatory. In 1912 in Berlin, Tschemerinski began studies in science under, among others, Albert Einstein and Max Planck. At the outbreak of World War I in 1914, he was first interned as a Russian citizen but voluntarily enlisted in the German army as interpreter, in which capacity he served in prisoner of war camps.”
    By golly! What a genius he was. I can already hear in my mind how he would play Chopin’s Andante Spianato & Grand Polonaise Brillante in E flat Major. You know, that one from “The Pianist” movie. However, his studies with Einstein and Max Plank makes me worry. A Trotskyite and a Jew with the knowledge of nuclear weapons should be Universal problem, not just Hitler’s.
    Why did I call him a Trotskyite?
    “Following transfer of power to the NSDAP in 1933, Maslow and Fischer first fled to Paris, where they resided until 1940. From 1934 to 1936, Maslow worked closely with Leon Trotsky and served as a part of the movement towards a Fourth International. After the break with Trotsky, Maslow and Ruth Fischer founded a circle with the name, Marxist-Leninist International Group, which lasted until 1939. During the Moscow Trials of 1936 to 1938, Maslow was again accused by the Stalinist press as an espionage agent. After the fall of France in 1940, Maslow fled to Cuba. Unlike Ruth Fischer, he was unable to obtain an entry visa to the USA. On 20 November 1941, Maslow was found dead on a street in Havana. According to an official investigation, he had suffered a heart attack. However, Ruth Fischer and Franz Pfemfert were of the opinion that Maslow was murdered by the NKVD.”

    “Unlike Ruth Fischer, he was unable to obtain an entry visa to the USA”. That’s rated “duh”. The Jewess communist extremist Ruth Fischer had no problems entering USA, while “Arkady Maslow” was not able to change his documents to his original name Isaak Tschemerinski and was denied the entry. At that time, their boss Leon Trotsky was dead and couldn’t help.

    I have mentioned in my last post that Thälmann and Dimitrov were members of the “Third International”. “Maslow” and Fischer were members of the monkey business “Fourth International”. By 1934, Rothschild’s agent Leon Trotsky has lost all confidence of his handlers and he, as well as his followers, became a fringe movement. Trotsky still have lots of money and was able to live in comfortably, but his followers had been persecuted in USSR and chased out of other countries.

    Stalin was a monster and he is responsible for tens of millions of death, but should Trotsky overcome, there would be hundreds of millions. Stalin was an idealist, who believed in universal brotherhood (under his leadership, of course). And he would sacrifice millions of lives to attain his goal. Leon Trotsky did not believe in universal brotherhood. He was member of a “chosen tribe” and have always acted like one. He was a paid agent of Rothschilds.

    Let us imagine for a minute that Stalin and Hitler were defeated by Trotsky in 1933. What kind of World would we have after that? The best scenario has been given by rabbi Ovadia Yosef in occupied Palestine.

    “According to Rabbi, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.
    The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews, according to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

    “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat.

    According to Yosef, the lives of non-Jews in Israel are safeguarded by divinity, to prevent losses to Jews.

    “In Israel, death has no dominion over them… With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money.

    This is his servant… That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew,” Yosef said.

    “Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.

    That is why gentiles were created,” he added.

    Yosef’s Saturday night sermons have seen many controversial statements from the 90-year-old rabbi. In August, Yosef caused a diplomatic uproar when he wished a plague upon the Palestinian people and their leaders, a curse he retracted a few weeks later, when he blessed them along with all of Israel’s other peace-seeking neighbors.”

    Do you understand now, what kind of world we would be living if Trotsky and Rothschilds would take power eighty years ago?

    Comment by Gasan — March 2, 2011 @ 9:08 pm

  30. Gasan
    Please note my source of information is:Broue,Le Parti bolchvique, pp180,185;and Gorkin,Les Communists,p.175

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 2, 2011 @ 3:04 am

  31. Dear Gasan
    I may have stirred up a hornets nest by simply stating a fact thatThaelmann was shot on orders by Hitler in 1944.With his limited education I do not think that he (Thaelmann) would ever made President during the Weimar Republic,he would simply be eliminated by any right wing elements that had made an attempt on his life before. One should not forget that a soviet style government did rule the state of Bavaria for over two years after WWI until Hitler started and participated in the so called Putsch from memory in 1923.At that time and the generation after the war the German people were seeking an alternative to a Russian ruled communist system an alternative to better their lives and turned to National Socialism, which initially kept what was promised, but went out of control once the NSDAP’s 24 Party Manifesto was strictly adhered to and we all know what happened then.Going back to my original comments that Thaelmanns Deputy Hans Beimler escaped from Dachau.Upon reaching Spain he helped establish the Thaelmann battalion. He was killed on 1 December 1936 in Palacete, but by whom?Gustav Regler claimed that Beimler fell victim to a bullet from the nationalists.Antonia Stern,Beimler’s companion,who was stripped of her rights and expelled from Spain,diputed this version of events.She claimed that Beimler had spoken out against the first Moscow show-trials and had been in contact with former directors of the KPD,Arkady Maslow and Ruth Fischer,who led an opposition group in Paris.On the basis of a report from the Secret Intelligence Service,a special department of the Catalan Police Department that dealt with informers in the communist ranks,Pierre Broue also believes that Beimler was assassinated by the NKVD.Stalin and his agents cynically exploited the idealism that had brought so many to Spain to fight the Republican cause then abandoned the country and the Brigads to their fate.By then he was preparing his rapprochment with Hitler!
    PS>My interest lies in Spain as the the paternal of my family are Bascs

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 2, 2011 @ 2:45 am

  32. I have never heard before that Thälmann called for violent overthrow of duly elected government of National Socialists, but I have no reasons to doubt it. Ernst Thälmann was representing not the workers of Germany but so called “Komintern” aka “Third International”, which was run from Moscow. The leaders of “Komintern” wanted to establish a “paradise of workers and peasants” all over the globe. At the Leipzig “Reichstag Fire” trial, another communist leader Georgi Dimitrov said to Hermann Göring that USSR is the best country in the world. For whatever reason, Bulgarian national Dimitrov was not living “in the best country of the world” but rather in “Nazi” Germany.
    Let us see what were the living conditions in USSR in 1932-1934.
    The “collectivization” of peasantry brought a failure of harvesting in 1932 and the famine spread all over Southern part of USSR. The areas affected were: most of the Ukraine, Northern Caucasus region, Volga River region and Western Kazakhstan. Several millions died from starvation. The cannibalism became a common thing. Those, who had been caught, were executed without a trial. GULAG camps were established in the Northern parts of USSR. Should I give you the names of those who were in charge of those atrocities?
    Their names were: Lazar Kaganovich, Iona Yakir, Genrich Yehuda (head of KGB at that time), etc.
    And now, we have Ernst Thälmann, who wanted to be a president of Germany? And what would Thälmann do? Make already starving Germans to eat each other? Did he and Dimitrov know what was going on in USSR? Of course, they knew. Guess, what would happen, if Thälmann could seized the power in Germany?
    You have the answer: he called to “violent overthrow of Hitler’s Government”. That means: immediate starvation of the German people, imprisonment of millions of the Stormtroopers and other hostile elements of the society with their families. and possible deportation of all persons, mentioned above, to the sunny coast of Arctic Ocean.
    Ernst Thälmann was a communist provocateur and foreign agent by all definitions. I have not researched yet, why he wasn’t even brought to trial, but it appears that he was spared for some future use. Nevertheless, his crimes and conspiracies against German people are well established, even based on Wikipedia entries.
    Question for reader Herbert Stolpmann:
    Do you really wish that Ernst Thälmann won the election of 1933 and turn Germany in one of the USSR republics, as it was planned?

    Comment by Gasan — March 1, 2011 @ 8:57 pm

  33. The legacy of communism continues through the holocaust mythology. As chaos re-emerges from decades of prosperity, communism will be back as well, with some new twists perhaps, but with more horrors for a world that does not have enough good sense to recognize that Hitler saved western Europe for an entire generation.

    Comment by Friedrich Paul Berg — March 1, 2011 @ 4:34 pm

  34. In February 1933 a Central Committe of the already banned KPD took place in Koenigs Wusterhausen near Berlin, where Thaelmann called for the violent overthrow of Hitler’s government. On March 3rd he was arrested in Berlin by the Gestapo.His trial never took place.Thaelmann spent over eleven years in solitary confinement.In August 1944 he was tranferred from Bautzen prison to Buchenwald concentration camp,where on the 18th August on Hitler’s orders he was shot and his body immediately burned.Shortly after the Nazis announced that together with Rudolf Breitscheid, Thaelmann had died in an Allied bombing attack on August 23rd 1944.
    There is a Ernst Thaelmann statue in Weimar,a monument in Werdau Germany and Cuba named a small Island after him “Cayo Ernesto Thaelmann”.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — March 1, 2011 @ 4:12 pm

    • Ratha’s comment and Thälmann
      For some reasons people seem to come back to the unsolved murder of Ernst Thälmann at KZ Buchenwald. A number of post-trials against alleged participants have been held in West Germany, one of interest is SS-man Wolfgang Otto, he was, what is called in the German Army “Spieß” which is equivalent to First Sergeant in the US Army and more or less runs the day to day activity of a company. His main function 9at Buchenwald) was leader of “Kommando 99”, the execution team of inmates including their own kind. During the Buchenwald Trials he admitted taking part in seven executions including that of Commandant Koch.
      Otto, who led the protocol executions at Buchenwald, testified about the procedures during the 1985 Krefeld-Thälmann Trial the following procedure:
      “Here, I first determined the identity of the condemned by the documents I had and read the name of each and asked if that was he, to be hanged or to be shot. The person in question would either by signs or by an intelligible sound acknowledge that he was”.
      The executions of wall hooks in the basement of the crematorium Otto said:
      “The sight was even less aesthetic than the execution by a rope or trap door. The prisoners were in fact lifted up, then the rope around his neck and onto the hook until death set in”.[An SS-man I knew and now dead took part in the method and claimed that in some cases no rope was used, the condemned was still lifted up without a rope , then hooked through the jaw which penetrated the nasal cavity as the death throes took longer and was deliberately more painful, their hands were tied with thin wire which cut into the tissues during the struggle.sic]
      After the war, Otto was arrested as part of the Dachau trials during the Buchenwald main process which indicted 30 other defendants. On 14 August 1947 Otto was convicted of using and participating in violent crimes in Buchenwald to 20 years imprisonment, which was later reduced to a ten year term.
      The former Buchenwald prisoner Marian Zgoda from Poland in 1947 during a German radio broadcast did a report of the murder of Ernst Thälmann, that the offence was committed by Wolfgang Otto. This declaration was perused by Louis Landwehr, president of the Association of Victims of Nazi Persecution in Lower Saxony, in 1962 a campaign in East Germany due to Otto’s perpetration was re-kindled. Subsequently the widow Rosa Thälmann, who lived in East Berlin, through her lawyer Friedrich Karl Kaul filed a lawsuit against Otto for murder. Starting in 1962 over the next 25 years a total of seven investigations against Otto were set in motion, with the result in the wake of the 1985 trial before the District Court of Krefeld on the 15th May 1986, Otto was convicted to four years in prison for aiding and abetting (murder). This sentence was later squashed, as the witness Marian Zgoda, may have seen four SS-men in the dark and heard four shots, the last one assumed to be by Otto as the cue de grace, he could only identify him by voice recognition.
      A devout Catholic [hard to understand,sic] while in custody in prison for war criminals at Landsberg, Otto worked as liturgically trained organist at the prison church. Otto was released from prison for war criminals at Landsberg for good behaviour. He had several Persil certificates, for example, one from the former Buchenwald inmate Leon Blum , which he had received from him in 1947 because of its linked activity between the camp commander and the prisoners. Otto applied as a teacher in England and received in 1954 due to its Persil certificates, despite his activities in Buchenwald, a teaching position at the Catholic elementary school in Goch near Cleves. Otto, who also taught Theology at the Catholic school, although even to the local school board, he did not conceal his past, however, he glossed over them, by pretending to have done in Buchenwald only paperwork and accounting. On 1 June 1962 Otto was prohibited with immediate effect to perform his official profession. The reason was, that his crime-related allegation at Buchenwald become known.
      He died November 1989.
      PS.: Persil Certificate or ‘Persilscheine’, is one of these ambiguous German expression, we all know PERSIL is a washing powder, yet the expression means :To absolve all responsibility!

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — December 4, 2012 @ 7:11 pm


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