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June 9, 2013

June 10th, the anniversary of the Oradour-sur-Glane tragedy

Filed under: Germany, World War II — Tags: , — furtherglory @ 9:35 pm
The Center of Memory at Oradour sur Glane with the ruined village in the background

The Center of Memory at Oradour-sur-Glane with the ruined village in the background

June 10th is the anniversary of the tragedy in the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane in 1944. I previously blogged about Oradour-sur-Glane at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/oradour-sur-glane-shown-in-the-tv-series-the-world-at-war/

There are two sides to the Oradour-sur-Glane story: the official version and the German side of the story.

The official story of the massacre at Oradour-sur-Glane is told in a 190-page book entitled Oradour-sur-Glane, a Vision of Horror. This is the Official Publication of the Remembrance Committee and the National Association of the Families of the Martyrs of Oradour-sur-Glane, written by Guy Pauchou, sub-prefect of Rochechouart, which is a nearby town, and Dr. Pierre Masfrand, the curator of the ruins of Oradour-sur-Glane.

The book tells the official story of the destruction of the peaceful village of Oradour-sur-Glane on June 10, 1944 when 642 innocent men, women and children were brutally murdered for no reason at all and the whole town was destroyed by Waffen-SS soldiers in Hitler’s elite army.

Read more at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/Story/OfficialStory.html

Ruins of the church in Oradour-sur-Glane

Ruins of the church in Oradour-sur-Glane

One of the first sights that can be seen on the entrance road into the ruined village is the “Tragic Well,” where dead bodies that had been thrown into the well were found.  The photo below was taken from inside the enclosure of an old farmstead; it shows the old well with a wooden cross placed beside it.

The "Tragic Well" at Oradour-sur-Glane

The “Tragic Well” at Oradour-sur-Glane

According to Philip Beck, who wrote a book about Oradour-sur-Glane, entitled Oradour, Village of the Dead, the names of the victims whose bodies were found in the well are unknown. Out of the 642 people murdered in the village by the SS soldiers, the bodies of only 52 were ever identified. But according to defense testimony at the Nuremberg IMT, the SS claimed to have found a number of bodies of German soldiers in the well.

Old car at the ruins of Oradour-sur-Glane

Old car at the ruins of Oradour-sur-Glane

Here is the German version of the Oradour-sur-Glane story:

On 10 June 1944, two platoons of soldiers in the 3rd company of Der Führer regiment of Das Reich division in the Waffen-SS army, under the command of Captain Otto Kahn and accompanied by Battalion Commander Adolf Diekmann, went to the village of Oradour-sur-Glane for the express purpose of searching for another battalion commander, Major Helmut Kämpfe, a beloved officer and a close personal friend of Diekmann, who was missing. It was known that Kämpfe’s car had been ambushed and that he had been kidnapped by members of the Maquis, who were part of the FTP, a French Communist resistance organization, commanded by Georges Guingouin. It was believed that the Maquis was planning to ceremoniously execute Kämpfe that very day.

Diekmann had received information that morning from two collaborators in the French Milice (secret police), who told him that Kämpfe was being held prisoner in Oradour-sur-Glane and that the Maquisards, as the resistance fighters were called, were planning to burn Kämpfe alive. This information was confirmed by German intelligence reports.

Another SS officer, named Karl Gerlach, had been kidnapped the day before by the Maquis and taken to Oradour-sur-Glane, after he had offered to give information to their leader in exchange for his life. In the village, Gerlach saw members of the Maquis, including women who were dressed in leather jackets and wearing steel helmets, the clothing of Resistance fighters. He escaped, wearing nothing but his underwear, just as they were preparing to execute him. He gave this information to Diekmann and showed him the location of Oradour-sur-Glane on a map.

Read more at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/Story/Synopsis02.html

Body parts of victims in church, still wearing unburned clothing

Body parts of victims found in the Oradour church, still wearing unburned clothing

The photo above shows unburned body parts, found with clothing still intact, in the ruins of the Church in Oradour-sur-Glane.

The photo below shows the burned corpse of Dr. Jean Desourteaux, the mayor of the town. His body was one of only 52 victims that could be positively identified.

Burned body of Desourteaux, the mayor of Oradour-sur-Glane

Burned body of Mr. Desourteaux, the mayor of Oradour-sur-Glane

In spite of the fact that the evidence shows that the church in Oradour-sur-Glane was destroyed by bombs stored in the church by the resistance fighters in the town, the official story, that you must believe if you don’t want to go to prison, is that the German soldiers set fire to the church.

Vincent Reynouard was imprisoned because he contradicted the official story of Oradour-sur-Glane.

In 1953, a trial was conducted by a French tribunal in Bordeaux.  You can read about the trial at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/Story/BordeauxTrial.html

20 Comments

  1. It’s always interesting to read the misinformed rantings of deniers. Evidence exists from both sides of this atrocity that confirms the facts that the SS (as the same unit had done on the Eastern Front) systematically destroyed this town and its inhabitants.
    The saddest fact in reading this drivel from “furtherglory” (a fascinating name in itself) is that it suggests once again that these deniers are the very same people who would perpetrate similar atrocities if they got half the chance?
    You should be ashamed with yourself for insulting the memory of over 600 innocent people with your lies.

    Comment by Luke — January 1, 2016 @ 9:53 am

  2. Some things add up and some things don’t. Was Mme Roufanche ever in the church? After escaping through that church window She hid in a garden (in daylight?). Miraculously, the younger woman with a child was shot and killed whilst trying to escape from the church through that same window, only seconds before Mme Roufanche – a much older Woman – manage to climb up to that window. Did Mme Roufanche have any burn marks, cuts or bruises? Yes, the actual incident at Oradour was both horrendous and sickening, but didn’t the French also make sure that there were a lot of unusual items left in plain view right by windows? These were things like the sewing machine on a window sill, the bicycles and that bread container. Could the dead baby inside it have been brought from the church after the fire had been put out? It was natural that the French would pile on the agony after all. It was also natural though, that The Germans would either lie about some things and deny a lot more too. They killed the people after all, no matter how many, 590 or less, but none of The French did!

    I don’t have a website, I can be reached on an English Telephone Number in the B.T ‘phone book for Peterborough, Cambridgeshire.

    Comment by Anthony Godly — June 22, 2015 @ 8:16 am

  3. I found some excellent photos of the ruins of Oradour-sur-Glane on this blog: http://www.findingtheuniverse.com/2012/01/village-of-death-and-memory-in-france.html

    The person who took these photos and wrote this blog post on the blog, cited above, has absolutely no conception of what actually happened at Oradour-sur-Glane. I wish that I could be that way, never really looking at anything, never questioning, never studying the facts.

    Comment by furtherglory — June 11, 2013 @ 10:12 am

  4. http://www.oradour.info/appendix/rikmen01.htm

    Comment by schlageter — June 11, 2013 @ 6:11 am

  5. The article about Tulle & Oradour-sur-Glane in Russian.

    http://www.battlefield.ru/tulle-oradour-sur-glane.html

    Main points: There are no mass graves. There was explosion inside the church.

    Comment by Gasan — June 10, 2013 @ 6:25 pm

  6. You Deniers must love that countries will imprison you for denying the Holocaust, its the only thing you got. OK so they burned only 60 people. Also talk about victimhood crap, I mean really I am a grandchild of a survivor, and I don’t hate the Germans today. Sure I hate the Nazis and the Neo Nazis, but the feeling is mutual I’m sure. That said, Germans are fine today, there isn’t a German alive today that had much to do with the Holocaust, invasion of Europe or Russia or Africa. At best if you are 90 years old today in 1945, you were probably an enlisted man at best, and while some people do make it to 90 don’t. Jews have german friends, and yes they even drive German cars (because they are good cars).

    While I ALWAYS disagree with the European laws regarding Holocaust denial, speech, no matter how stupid, should not be denied, as its important to permit deranged people like yourselves to get your stuff out in the open. So it can be ridiculed and debunked. While I do understand why European leaders would prefer that such ideology does not rise again, I think they are barking up the wrong tree. There will never be another Jewish Holocaust in Europe, because there aren’t all that many Jews left in Europe…the next Holocaust will likely occur in about 150 years when Islamists have a firm hold on Europe vis a vi population and the choice will be to convert, pay a tax and practice quietly or die. But at least you revisionists will have a friend in Holocaust denial, as it will become the law of the land as the Protocol of Zion become required 7th grade reading.

    Anyway your attempt to find any historical record and whitewash the atrocities of the Nazis is like grasping for straws. So the official record does not account for all the bodies (look German’s were good at burning bodies by the way). Oh and the German version…yes those poor Germans just protecting the French from communists…they were just such peaceful loving people just looking for a little last minute R&R in the French Countryside…just before the allies came push them back to the other side of the Rhine….. For every story you pull out, you can find dozens that have eyewitness accounts….sure you don’t believe everyone, and in war eyewitness accounts will vary. Its not like after every event there is a forensic team out there trying to count all the dead the moment after…Armies usually keep moving. . I admit I am not privy to all the facts on this massacre. But heck I can read between the lines…But once again here is where you deniers can’t ever get past. OK – so they uncovered only 60 some bodies….so where did the others go? Did they join Santa Clause’s elves and make toys for all the little children for Christmas. Are they the ones that hid all those Easter Eggs. Perhaps they climbed Jack’s Bean Stalk. Perhaps they took a trip to French Polynesia. Why haven’t these French folks who lived in that famous town during the 2nd world war come out and say hey I lived in that town, there are still a bunch of us around! Answer…there aren’t any because they are all dead!

    Reality prospective – In that time was the Allies were on the beach and the Germans were becoming more aggressive on trying to get resistance fighters in the country they invaded (enough to fight the Americans but they certainly didn’t want to deal with other pockets of resistance)….Patton’s Third Army was on the move, and they had enough to worry about, the orders from Berlin were get aggressive.

    So what about this “German version”…well known, it was likely necessary to keep the cheese eating surrender monkey government (aka Vichy government) from not surrendering again, this time… to the Allies, who were 100 miles from Paris. The German’s probably and correctly feared that their so called puppet government was not so much ideologically connected with Nazism, but more about self-preservation. Also, it would be interesting to know if the Germans ever resumed their search for the comrade they were looking for, or after the official explanation did this Nazi search for Private Ryan or Kampfe or who ever the were searching for end after the massacre/explosion?. But again all I need to know is where did these 600+ people end up? Show me a number of those people alive today, and perhaps we can start taking the German side of the story a little more seriously. You guys love to pick and choose your sources, sure believe the SS, discount everyone else. But like with so many of your revisions, the first test rarely passes the smell test… e.g. if those people weren’t murdered where are they today? The fact is those people from that town were never heard from again including woman and children)….so as you sort through all the facts, I think the real account you dismiss is likely closer to the truth of what happened.

    Comment by NeverAGAIN! — June 10, 2013 @ 2:40 pm

    • sameAgain! wrote :-

      ‘in war eyewitness accounts will vary’

      Yes exactly. My friend recently wrote a book about his time in the military during the 80s. I was present at a lot of these incidents, and all I can say is his recollections are different to mine.

      Stressful situations, explosions, fearing for your life, the unknown, memory loss etc, the mind works in different ways…………..especially with anti-German/Nazi lies that you know will be believed, especially if people are threatened with prison for refusing to….

      Comment by DB — June 11, 2013 @ 1:51 am

    • You wrote: “OK – so they uncovered only 60 some bodies….so where did the others go? Did they join Santa Clause’s elves and make toys for all the little children for Christmas. Are they the ones that hid all those Easter Eggs. Perhaps they climbed Jack’s Bean Stalk. Perhaps they took a trip to French Polynesia. Why haven’t these French folks who lived in that famous town during the 2nd world war come out and say hey I lived in that town, there are still a bunch of us around! Answer…there aren’t any because they are all dead!”

      You have apparently misunderstood the counting of the number of dead bodies and the number of survivors. There were 52 bodies that were positively identified out of the 642 people who were “missing and presumed dead.” In other words, there are 590 people who may or may not have died in the massacre. Since there were French Resistance fighters living in the town and the surrounding area, many of the 590 people who were “presumed dead” might have been still alive, but had left the town. Others who claimed to be survivors of the massacre might have been safely hiding in their homes on the outskirts of the town and were not actually there when the massacre took place.

      For example, Madame Rouffanche claimed that she jumped out the church window and survived. She testified at the trial of the SS men about how the people were killed in the church. Personally, I think that Madame Rouffanche is a “liar, liar, pants on fire.” I don’t think that she was in the church.

      More than 52 bodies could not be identified because some of the bodies were blown into pieces and other bodies were burned beyond recognition. This allowed the French to claim that 642 people had been killed.

      Comment by furtherglory — June 11, 2013 @ 8:37 am

    • Among the 642 people who were massacred in Oradour-sur-Glane on 10 June 1944 were 393 people living there, including long-time residents and 84 refugees, according to Sarah Farmer, who wrote a book called “Martyred Village,” first published in 1999. The refugees included 26 Communist loyalists who had fought in the Spanish Civil War which ended in 1939.

      Also among the victims were 167 people from the surrounding hamlets, including many school children who were in the village that day for a medical exam. There were 33 people from Limoges who were visiting the village and 25 others who were visiting from other towns; all were killed along with the inhabitants of the village. There were 80 residents who survived in one way or another, according to Sarah Farmer’s book. Of these 80, there were 36 who were gone for the day and 28 who hid in their homes or gardens and did not go to the Fairgrounds that day. There were 5 men and 1 woman who survived the shooting of the villagers, including 2 men in the Laudy barn who were not wounded. The other 10 survived by some unknown way.

      Read more on this page of my website: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/Tour/Sites/Fairgrounds.html

      Comment by furtherglory — June 11, 2013 @ 8:45 am

    • You wrote: “I admit I am not privy to all the facts on this massacre. But heck I can read between the lines…But once again here is where you deniers can’t ever get past.”

      You can read on this website http://carolynyeager.net/saturday-afternoon-vincent-reynouard-%E2%80%93-new-video-oradour-sur-glane about a new video made by Vincent Reynouard about Oradour-sur-Glane. The woman who narrates the video is speaking in French. I don’t speak French, but if I did, I think that I could easily understand what she is saying, as she speaks very clearly and distinctly.

      I have written about Vincent Reynouard’s arguments about Oradour-sur-Glane on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/Story/VincentReynouard.html (On this page of my website, I am playing Devil’s Advocate.)

      Comment by furtherglory — June 11, 2013 @ 9:47 am

  7. its a pity you don’t understand French because some of the best revisionist videos on Oradour are available only in French. In France the courageous and brilliant Vincent Reynouard once again is being charged for denying the Holocaust and this gentleman with a large loving family is threatened with Jail. For those who do understand French here is Mr Reynouard explaining why again he is being prosecuted.

    Comment by peter — June 10, 2013 @ 1:15 pm

  8. I have searched the news in vain for a news article that tells the true story of what happened in Oradour-sur-Glane. All the news articles are in French.

    This news article at http://www.sudouest.fr/2013/05/17/visite-dans-un-haut-lieu-de-memoire-1055774-2780.php is typical. Here is the translation in English:

    Begin quote:
    Winners of the Resistance and Deportation, students first high school biology St. Louis Wednesday conducted an educational trip in Haute-Vienne, in the village of Oradour-sur-Glane. It was in this town that 643 people were killed by S. S. June 10, 1944.

    “Oradour is a mecca of memory and one of the most emblematic places murderous folly,” says Bruno Charbonnier, the teacher of history and geography. Other high school and college students, rewarded for their work on the subject of school competition, were also present during the event organized by the management of departmental services of National Education.
    End Quote

    So first year high school students in a BIOLOGY class were “rewarded for their work in a school competition.” Was this a competition to see who could write the best article spewing hatred for the German people?

    Were these students in BIOLOGY class taught that the massacre at Oradour-sur-Glane was a LEGAL REPRISAL (under the Geneva Convention of 1929) for the killing of German soldiers by French ILLEGAL COMBATANTS (terrorists)?

    Comment by furtherglory — June 10, 2013 @ 10:17 am

    • FG wrote: “I have searched the news in vain for a news article that tells the true story of what happened in Oradour-sur-Glane.”

      Oradour was a police operation that derailed.

      On 10 June 1944 between 120 and 155 SS soldiers entered Oradour-Sur-Glane because a German officer, H. Kämfe, had been captured and kidnapped by the French resistance not far from there on the previous day. They had good reasons to think their man was kept at Oradour-Sur-Glane. As usually they separated the women and the chidren from the men. They brought the women and children to a safe place, the church of the village, and the men to barns. But the Germans ignored the French resistants were storing explosives in the church. Suddenly and for unknown reasons (M. Reynouard speculates there were maybe resistants hidden in the church who were found by the SS and the store exploded when they were fighting the SS) the explosive store exploded and killed the women and children kept there. When they heard that explosion, the Germans who were in the barns with the French men thought they were attacked, they panicked and they shot some of the French men who were with them. Result: about 650 dead people (including about 500 women and children).

      If the Germans had deliberately perpetrated that massacre in order to terrorize the French populations, they would have endorsed it in order to show they were not joking and French resistance terrorism wouldn’t be tolerated any longer. But they immediately denied it was a deliberate massacre. Moreover on 9 June 1944 (the day before Oradour) the Germans had operated a similar action in the French village of Tulle. But in Tulle 40 dead and mutilated German soldiers had been found. So the Germans had a very good reason to massacre the inhabitants of Tulle but they didn’t do that. As in Oradour they separated the women and children from the men and later hung 99 men (out of about 1.200 arrested men). No women and children were killed. Had the German soldiers been ordered to massacre some French civilians to terrorize the French people, there would have dozens of Oradours, not only one, and Tulle would certainly have been of those terror massacres.

      Comment by hermie — June 10, 2013 @ 3:18 pm

  9. If you think those bodies were mutilated by a major explosion (http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/oradour_bebe_mutile.jpghttp://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/oradour_cadavres-dechiquetes.jpg), you should believe in this German/revisionist version. If you think those people were killed by fire, you should believe in the official version.

    Explosion victims: http://www.phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/oradour_cadavres_explosion.jpg (in the upper part: explosion victims during WW1; in the lower part: Oradour-Sur-Glane victims)

    Comment by hermie — June 10, 2013 @ 4:38 am

    • Thank you very much for the links to the photos. I have added two photos taken in Oradour-sur-Glane which show body parts and a burned body in the town.

      One must be careful about contradicting the official story of World War II, according to the winners, because you could wind up in prison for telling the truth.

      Comment by furtherglory — June 10, 2013 @ 7:06 am


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