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August 5, 2013

Did 6 million Jews really die in the Holocaust — not according to David Irving

Filed under: David Irving, Germany, Holocaust, World War II — Tags: , , — furtherglory @ 10:20 am

David Irving may have changed some of his writing, in recent years, in an attempt to preserve his reputation as the foremost historian of World War II, and to eke out a living after he was destroyed by the Holocaustians during his libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt a few years ago, but it cannot be denied that David Irving is the best person to know if 6 million Jews really died in the Holocaust.  I’ve met the man.  He is a walking encyclopedia, when it comes to the history of World War II.

Photo of David Irving, 2003

Photo of David Irving, 2003

There has been a lot of discussion recently in the comments on my blog, regarding the 6 million Jews who allegedly died in the Holocaust.  The Nazis didn’t bother to keep records on the 6 million, so the argument continues.

Way back in 1985 and 1988, Ernst Zündel was put on trial, twice, in Canada because he had distributed a pamphlet entitled Did Six Million Really Die?  He was charged with spreading “false news.”  You can read about the two trials of Ernst Zündel here.

David Irving was a witness for the defense of Ernst Zündel in the second trial in 1988.

The following quote is from this website, which gives some of the testimony from the 1988 trial, including the testimony of David Irving:

If the ‘Holocaust’ is represented as the allegation of the extermination of 6 million Jews during the Second World War as a direct result of official German policy of extermination, what would you [David Irving] say to that thesis?, asked Christie.

“There are several elements of that sentence I would dispute,” said Irving. “Firstly, the allegation that it was official German policy. We are not familiar, neither the academic nor the professional historians are familiar with the slightest documentary evidence that there was any such German policy. And I should be familiar with it having spent ten years wading around in the archives of the German High Command and speaking with Hitler’s private staff. It isn’t there. I am not familiar with any documentary evidence of any such figure as 6 million and I think I know how the figure originated because I am familiar with the private papers of the American Chief Justice at Nuremberg, the Justice Robert H. Jackson and I saw the actual interview on which that figure was…arrived at…Many years ago, I wrote a very detailed analysis of the Nuremberg trial and the procedures and the sequence of events at the Nuremberg trial. In the course of which I obtained privileged access to all the private and official records of the American chief prosecutor, Justice Robert H. Jackson, in the course of which I changed my opinion about him. I set off with a bad opinion of him and in the light of what I read in his diaries, I came to realize he was a profound and honest American lawyer.” (33-9349, 9350)

Do you have any opinion as a result of your research as to the number of Jews who died in concentration camps during the Second World War?, asked Christie. Said Irving: “I am not sure that an opinion here would be of use. I have opinions. I have opinions, however, in the kind of statistical orders of magnitude, where you can see there’s a minimum number and a maximum number, and I can only set these two limits and say that to my mind, it must have been of the order of 100,000 or more, but to my mind it was certainly less than the figure which is quoted nowadays of 6 million. Because on the evidence of comparison with other similar tragedies which happened in the Second World War, it is unlikely that the Jewish community would have suffered any worse than these communities. You can weigh the figures in certain ways and look at air raid damage and look at other communities like the gypsies and so on and say, this is the balance of probabilities. But it shouldn’t be necessary to talk about probabilities. All Hitler’s other crimes are documented in statistical details in the archives. This is supposed to have been the biggest crime of all and yet the documents just aren’t there so why do we have to speculate? Why do we have to have opinions about figures?” Irving pointed out that there was documentary evidence to support the German policy of deporting the Jews: “Oh, yes. Quite definitely. In the course of my Hitler research I came across acceptable German archival evidence which met the criteria which Hugh Trevor-Roper had taught me, being authentic documents written by people in a position to know. I came across documents showing that Hitler had given the orders for the deportation of the Jews to the east. This deportation was in full swing by the middle of 1942 and you find, for example, Heinrich Himmler writing to Gauleiters that the Führer, Adolf Hitler, has given me the order to make Europe free of the Jews, clean of the Jews from west to east, stage-by- stage, and it’s quite clearly referred to as Hitler’s order, the deportation.” (33-9351, 9352)

There were, however, no orders for the extermination of Jews: “None whatsoever. I have not found in any archives of the world, including I mentioned the Israeli archives which have been co-operating with me; I also underline the fact even in the British archives, where we were reading the signals, the code signals of the SS units operating on the eastern front, with our code- breaking machinery, not even in the British archives are there any deciphered Hitler orders for the killing of Jews…There are no explicit orders and this is where the academic historians start asking us to read between the lines and find fancy translations for certain words and I wouldn’t go along with those methods. I want in a crime as big as this to find explicit evidence.” (33-9352, 9353)

So there you have it.  A man, who has spent most of his life studying the German archives and talking to people who knew Hitler, says that Hitler did not order the genocide of the Jews, and there is no evidence that 6 million Jews died during World War II.

This quote is also from the IHR website:

Irving had read Did Six Million Really Die?: “…I have seen this book before over several years. I have never read it until two days ago when a copy was sent to me by courier in Florida with a request that I should read it for the purposes of this trial. And I read it with great interest and I must say that I was surprised by the quality of the arguments that it represented. It has obvious flaws. It uses sources that I would not personally use. In fact, the entire body of sources is different. This is based entirely on secondary literature, books by other people, including some experts, whereas I use no books. I use just the archives. But independently, the author of this came to conclusions and asked questions of a logical nature which I had arrived at by an entirely different route, so-to-speak. I give one example. On one page, which I can’t remember, he asks the obvious logical question, if you are going to exterminate millions of people, why did you go to all the trouble of shipping them thousands of miles across Europe first? This is the kind of logical question which the academic historian[s] have ducked until now. And if I was to ask what is the value of a brochure like this, I think it is that it provokes people to ask questions, rather as my book on Hitler’s War provoked the historians. I think I am told that this court has heard about the historians’ dispute that has opened up in Germany. That was entirely as a result of my controversial book on Hitler. Until 1977, the German historians had never asked the obvious questions. This is the kind of value which I found this brochure to have. It was asking proper questions on the basis of an entirely different set of sources. But I do emphasize that it contains flaws and it contains also some opinions with which I personally wouldn’t agree.” (33-9347, 9348)

Did you catch that?  The obvious question is “if you were going to exterminate millions of people, why did you go to all the trouble of shipping them thousands of miles across Europe first?”

Specifically, if you are going to exterminate Jews in Holland, why ship them across Europe, in passenger trains, to the banks of the Bug river, to kill them in gas chambers using carbon monoxide, and then bury them 30 feet deep because there are no ovens in which to burn the bodies?

Use your heads, people!  The number one characteristic of the German people, after cleanliness, is efficiency.  The Germans would never have carried out the “extermination” of the Jews in the way that the Holocaustians claim.  And if they had, the Germans would have kept records.  If records had been kept, David Irving would have found them.

Don’t criticize David Irving, unless you have written as many books as he has, and you still have dust in your lungs from years of searching the German archives.

27 Comments »

  1. I’ve met him too and supporters of his who are fleeing just as fast as they can with the “new developments” about limited gassings to which he answers when asked how could it have happened, “I don’t know and I don’t care.” He may have been an authority, NOW his interpretation of the ‘facts’ is seriously suspect, especially when he has dubious (at best) if any proof. I cut off his work maybe about 2012. His ‘findings’ need to be considered WITH A grain of salt largely because they come from the SOVIET ARCHIVES like the Goebbels Diaries.

    SOVIET FAKES

    The Moscow ” Goebbels Diaries”

    There are other episodes discussed here which encompass both documentary frauds and what Trevor-Roper termed “unchecked human testimony.” (H.R. Trevor-Roper, “The Last Days of Hitler”, New York, 1947, p. 197, notes)

    The collapse of the Soviet Union may have seen the temporary end of Russian expansionism, but it did not see a termination to an incredible outpouring of documentary forgeries which have plagued the historical world since the beginning of the Twentieth Century.

    Russian historical experts working for the NKVD and its successor, the KGB, conducted, and still are conducting, a prolific forgery factory in Moscow. These products have sown dissension and confusion in the ranks of legitimate historians and journalists. The former are more difficult to delude, but the latter, eager for sensational material with which to reap profits, are extraordinarily careless in assessing the accuracy of offerings from Muscovite document peddlers.

    Aside from extensively rewriting their own history, Russian forgery experts spent most of their time in producing material designed to delude, confound and mislead their perceived enemies, both domestic and foreign. Much of this began after the Second World War with extensive rewriting, editing and deliberate forgeries of German military and political documents designed to embarrass the United States and its client, the West German government, as well as to elevate the image of their own regime.

    Faked reports dealing with the purported death of Hitler began the deluge and these were followed by endless papers concerning the fate of Martin Bormann who the Soviets claimed was living somewhere in the West, probably protected by the insidious Americans. The same creative writers also heavily edited and enhanced the records of German Army Group Center, captured by their military units, when that entity was overrun during the war.

    The purpose of this exercise was to supply proof that German General Adolf Heusinger, nominated for a high NATO position, had been involved in war crimes on the Eastern Front during the course of the war. The KGB intermingled original, relatively unimportant documents with doctored or completely invented papers, released these through their agencies in the West and awaited the results. Fortunately, other period copies of the original documents were safe in German and American archives and comparisons quickly disclosed the fraudulent nature of the Heusinger attack. (See Security and reduced tension: On the occasion of the 70. birthday of general (ret.) Adolf Heusinger. 4 August 1967. Markus-Verlagsgesellschaft, Cologne 1967.)

    Many documents were prepared over the years in the event that they might be needed for a future propaganda assault and then left secure in Soviet archives.

    In addition to these activities, the KGB experts also concocting material proving that many American prisoners of war remained in Vietnam after the American withdrawal, and Mr. Morris, an American historian, was taken in by these as period articles in the New York Times show. Also produced was a series of badly forged papers proving that US citizen, John Demjanjuk, was a notorious German concentration camp guard, which was exposed in U.S. Federal Court proceedings in Virginia. Both of these projects were eventually exposed as frauds, but the problems they engendered during their brief life span were monumental.

    One of the most ambitious Soviet productions concerned the writings of Dr. Josef Goebbels, Hitler’s brilliant Minister of Propaganda, who killed himself and his family in the Berlin Führerbunker in 1945. Dr. Goebbels was a devoted diarist, setting forth his experiences and thoughts on a daily basis beginning in the 1920s and running through to the final days in Berlin.

    After he became Minister of Propaganda, these records were dictated by Goebbels on the following day and typed by a secretary on special paper using a large-type continental typewriter. An original and two carbons were made and the completed documents carefully stored. It should be noted that with the increasing pressures of his offices, Goebbels no longer had the time to write out his diary by hand, but always dictated it to a secretary on the day following the events he wished to record.

    After the war, in 1946, a book appeared in East Berlin entitled Extracts and Confessions of a War Criminal and purported to be quotes from the Goebbels’ diaries. It was later discovered that the book, which was entirely fictitious, was written by one Max Fechner, a well-known German communist, once the deputy head of the Socialist Unity Party, and a colleague of the German communist leader, Walter Ulbricht, who had spent the war in Moscow amongst his friends.

    In 1967, Soviet historian Jelena Rshewskaja published a book in East Berlin entitled Hitlers Ende ohne Mythos (Hitler’s end without Myth) in which she discusses having inspected “thick folders of handwritten Goebbels material” found in the bunker. In the same year, the pump was further primed by a similar report from Juliusz Stroynowski, a historian from Communist Poland who had fled to the West. He disclosed that he had accidentally discovered “several stacked folders” of handwritten Goebbels’ diaries “in the archives of the Soviet Ministry of Defense.” Stroynowski claimed that he had been permitted to examine the material, but was not allowed to make copies of any of it.

    The stage was now set in the press and interest aroused. The actual purported diaries were disclosed once again, this time to British journalist John Costello, who again was only permitted to look and not to copy, according to a letter from Costello to Robert Crowley in 1991. A copied document is, in the hands of any journalist or academic, a published document. And a published document which has passed from the control of its owner, and in the case of the Goebbels material, its creator, cannot be sold for profit.

    Because handwritten documents on the original, special paper Goebbels used would have been nearly impossible to successfully fake, the new Soviet line was that the documents had actually been typed and then put onto glass negatives. These were hidden by the Germans in cases where the Soviets were able to “discover” them after the war. Having altered the Goebbels’ diaries from “several stacked folders” of handwritten material to a box of more easily forged photographs of typed manuscript, the Russians began to offer their rare, politically-incorrect material to sources in Germany for sale and publication. German experts universally rejected these productions as completely fake.

    The documents originating in Moscow, especially the glass-negative photographic copies, are entirely spurious and were initially designed with political propaganda in mind, though later sold for a considerable sum of money to a British tabloid journalist intent on publishing them as his own political propaganda, and, of course, the unavoidable David Irving tried to make profit from this as well.

    Like the fictitious Walter Schellenberg “memoirs” published under the title The Labyrinth, the dissemination of the equally fake Soviet produced Goebbels’ Papers does a tremendous disservice to legitimate historians and researchers into whose works some of this contaminated material will eventually seep.

    The temptation to embroider historical facts to fit a particular ideological point of view is difficult for some journalists to successfully resist. Some might well accept a faked Goebbels file, if, for example, it were prove that Hitler did not order a holocaustic killing of European Jews, while others might well use the medium of a questionable interview to prove the contrary.

    Based to a very large degree on completely fictitious documentation prepared by the former Soviet KGB as political disinformation, Irving’s biography of Dr. Goebbels is full of pointless anecdotes, s******ing sexual innuendo and leaves an objective reader with the distinct feeling that the book should have been written in the sort of soft crayon supplied to therapy patients in locked wards.

    Fakes & Frauds II: David Irving. The Pathologist’s Report: An autopsy on the remains of David Irving
    __________________
    « Meanwhile, the war against the Soviet Union has allowed us to dispose of new territories for the final solution. Consequently, the Führer has decided to displace the Jews not towards Madagascar but towards the East. Thus, there is no longer any need to consider Madagascar for the final solution. »
    – Franz Rademacher, Feb. 10th 1942, Nuremberg Doc. NG-3933

    « Revisionists are just the messengers, the stupid impossibility of the ‘Holocaust’ story line is the message. »
    – Hannover (CODOH)

    Comment by Diane King — March 19, 2016 @ 10:45 am

  2. A probable reason why the NAZIS would transport JEWS across Europe to dispose of them could be to keep up a certain public appearance.
    No matter how horrible a person is, some, at times, want yo put forth an image that is more positive than what they actually are. Sweeping any “discretions” under the rug and keeping them hidden would be beneficial to the legacy of Hitler and the NAZIS because hated or not, killing mass numbers of innocent people is still a smear on you no matter what spin you put on it.

    Comment by Shaun Dent — January 16, 2016 @ 9:16 am

  3. “It is a cheap and nasty lie to call me a Holocaust-denier.”

    – David Irving, August 2013
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html

    Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — August 10, 2013 @ 12:27 pm

    • As I wrote, David Irving has changed his opinions about some of the Holocaust stories. He now believes that Jews were killed at Treblinka, for example.

      Comment by furtherglory — August 10, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

  4. NeverAGAIN! wrote:

    “Why not profess your hate for Jews, pray for the next Hitler…at least you would be intellectually honest!”

    I am intellectually honest. I do not profess the hate for Jews and I don’t profess the love of them. Are you looking for unconditional love for jews?
    We are not hating you, but we don’t have to “love” you either. You are not special and must be treated as everyone else.
    You are lying to us and giving us false history lesson about some “holocaust” BS.
    You are openly calling us “goyim” and believe that we will swallow it.
    Not a chance.
    We will destroy your story and find everyone, who was behind it.

    Comment by Gasan — August 7, 2013 @ 10:14 pm

  5. Changing last names and nationality was a common practice for the Jews in former USSR. Soviet internal passports had the nationality identification. The bearer would be able to declare national/ethnic identity by using nationality either of parents. At the beginning of war in USSR in 1941, all Jews were given an option to change their records. This practice was extended even after end of the war.
    I have personally known several dozen of people, who had adjusted their internal passports and claimed other nationality, then Jewish.
    They have claimed to be Russians, Georgians, Uzbek, Azerbaijani’s, etc.

    Comment by Gasan — August 5, 2013 @ 9:42 pm

  6. It takes some searching, but there are books out there about where the Jews of Europe went before, during and after WWII and how they got there. Romania was a clandestine transit point not only to Eretz Israel, but also to the Dominican Republic, Cuba, South America, Mexico, Canada and even America which has more Jews now than any other country outside Israel. They went to China, too, and boarded boats in Shanghai for new lives in the New World making the sort of zany mischief that’s brought every culture they’ve ever gotten a leg up in to it’s knees for over a millenium. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=romania+Jews+immigration+Israel

    Comment by who dares wings — August 5, 2013 @ 8:59 pm

    • And this explains what. . What the Island of Cuba and DR are all full of Jews today? ! Are you fucking kidding me. Wait better yet check out all those Chinese Jews. By the way when you go to the Hospital, do me a favor request no Jewish Doctors or medicine, and while you are at it cease using any invention from a Jew.

      Prozac, Valium, The Polio Vaccine, Radiation, Chemotherapy, the Artificial Kidney Dialysis machine, the Defibrillator, the Cardiac Pacemaker, Vaccination against the deadly “Hepatitis B” virus, the Vaccinating Needle, Laser Technology, Jeans, Lipstick, the Ballpoint Pen, Contraceptives, Instant Coffee, Television Remote Control, Traffic Lights, Scotchguard, the Flexistraw, Sound Movies, Videotape, Color Television, Instant Photography, Holography, Google, the Wire Transmission Facsimilie (FAX) , the Microphone, the Gramophone, the Microprocessing Chip, Optical Fiber Cable, Laser, Cellular Technology, the Videotape Recorder, Drip Irrigation, Scale Model Electric Trains, the Pager, the Walkie-talkie, Refrigerated Railroad Car, High-vacuum Electron Tubes, the Incandescent Lamp, Kodachrome Film, the Blimp, the Adding Machine, Stainless Steel, Tapered Roller Bearings.

      Yeah those horrible Jews….

      At least 178 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize, accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US recipients during the same period. In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world’s population and 2% of the US population).

      Yeah such horrible people!

      Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 6, 2013 @ 11:06 am

      • Every first grade student in American, and some that are in kindergarten, know that an African-American invented the traffic light. This quote is from a website that you can read at http://listverse.com/2007/10/29/top-10-african-american-inventors/

        Begin Quote:
        Other inventors had experimented with, marketed, and even patented traffic signals, however, Garrett Morgan was one of the first to apply for and acquire a U.S. patent for an inexpensive to produce traffic signal.
        End Quote

        You should notify all American schools that an African-American ONLY SHARED credit for the traffic light. It was really a Jew who is credited with this invention.

        Did the Germans want to genocide the Jews because of their inventions?

        You forget to mention that the Jews invented the concept of the stock market.

        Comment by furtherglory — August 6, 2013 @ 12:04 pm

      • Referring to the inventor that made sound in movie, i was wondering if this is the guy or someone else? I’m just curious, that’s all because we have the same last name and I don’t know if he was Jewish but did have something to do with sound in movies. By the way, I care for the Jewish people because Jesus Christ was Jewish and yes Jesus was real too. Of course some here will try and explain that away somehow…

        Comment by Josh — June 8, 2015 @ 10:46 am

  7. “There has been a lot of discussion recently in the comments on my blog, regarding the 6 million Jews who allegedly died in the Holocaust. The Nazis didn’t bother to keep records on the 6 million, so the argument continues.”

    The 6-million figure is a religious prophecy. That prophecy envisioned that before the Jewish people could reclaim and reconquer Palestine to establish a Jewish homeland called “Israel”, 6,000,000 Jews would first have to perish in a fiery burnt offering (i.e. “Holocaust”), as a sacrifice to their God. (See: Weintraub, Ben. The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism: Keystone of the New World Order. Washington, D.C.: Cosmo Pub., 1995.) Jewish author, Benjamen Blech, confirmed this reality in his book “The Secrets of Hebrew Words” (J Aronson Inc., 1991, p. 241), stating:

    “The Hebrew word for ‘ye shall return’(TaShuVU), seems to have been spelled incorrectly. Grammatically it requires another (vav). It ought to read (TaShUVU). Why is it lacking the letter (vav) which stands for six?. [TaShuVU] without the vav is a prediction to the Jewish people of ultimate return to their national homeland. TaShuVU in numbers adds up to 708: tav=400, shin=300, vei=2, vey=6. When we write the year, we ignore the millennia. In 1948 on the secular calendar, we witnessed the miracle of Jewish return to Israel. On the Hebrew calendar it was the year 5708. That was the year predicted by the incomplete word (TaShuVu), you shall return. We did return, lacking 6 – an all important 6 million of our people who perished in the holocaust. Yet the fulfillment of the prediction of return in precisely that year implied by the gematria of TaShuVU gives us firm hope that the words of the prophets for Final Redemption will come true as well.”

    Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must “vanish” before the state of Israel can be formed. “You shall return minus 6 million.” That’s why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the “6 million” is an attempt to transform the Holocaust story into state religion. Those six million, according to prophecy, had to disappear in “burning ovens”, which the judicial version of the Holocaust now authenticates. As a matter of fact, Robert B. Goldmann writes: “. . . without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State.” A simple consequence: Given six million Jews gassed at Auschwitz who ended up in the “burning ovens” (the Greek word holocaust means burned offerings), therefore, the prophecies have now been “fulfilled” and Israel can become a “legitimate state”. ”

    Regarding the ‘six million’ number you should know the following: In the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies, one can read “you shall return”. In the text the letter “V” or “VAU” is absent, as Hebrew does not have any numbers; the letter V stands for the number 6. Ben Weintraub, a religious scientist, learned from rabbis that the meaning of the missing letter means the number is ’6 million’. The prophesy then reads: You will return, but with 6 million less. See Ben Weintraub: “The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism”, Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3. The missing 6 million must be so before the Jews can return to the Promised Land. Jahweh sees this as a cleaning of the souls of the sinful people. The Jews must, on the return to the Promised Land, be clean — the cleaning shall be done in burning stokes.

    Moreover many prominent Zionists used that myth décades before Hitler’s alleged ‘Holocaust’ even began. For instance Max Nordau, the co-founder of the World Zionist Organization together with Theodor Herzl, during the 1911 (!) Zionist Congress in Balse, Switzerland said the following:

    “How dare the smooth talkers, the clever official blabbers, open their mouths and boast of progress. … Here they hold jubilant peace conferences in which they talk against war. … But the same righteous Governments, who are so nobly, industriously active to establish the eternal peace, ARE PREPARING, by their own confession, COMPLETE ANNIHILATION FOR SIX MILLION PEOPLE, and there is nobody, except the doomed themselves, to raise his voice in protest although this is a worse crime than any war …”

    Some researchers collected hundreds of pre-nazi press articles ‘reporting’ 6 million jews dying or in great peril in one place or another in the world.

    Comment by hermie — August 5, 2013 @ 8:47 pm

    • Wow you are Talumudic Scholar now. Of course there is also this other part that says that the Jews can’t come back to Israel unless the Messiah is to come. Of course there are also Jews who are Boston Red Sox Fans and until there are at lest 1,000,000 Jews who are Boston Red Sox Fans the Jews cannot come home this is total bullshit..

      What isn’t bullshit is your lack of ability to do math.

      Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 6, 2013 @ 10:53 am

      • Good arguments, moron – sorry God’s chosen moron. What a pathetic attempted ‘refutation’ ! Probably the most pathetic one I’ve ever seen…

        The Zionists of the early 20th century were patently not very willing to wait for your fairy tales’ messiah. They prefered another fairy tale – the one predicting Jews will go back to Palestine and seize that land after 6 million jewish martyrs have died in the flames of a purifying holocaust to yahweh. A fairy tale or another one, what’s the difference? The jewish supersticious idiots already believe that another fairy tale made them enter Palestine thousands of years ago (the fairy tale of Moses parting the Red Sea). Logical a new fairy tale enabled the 2nd jewish arrival in Palestine.

        “What isn’t bullshit is your lack of ability to do math.”

        Your equation contains a biased factor (mass immigration in the USA, no mass conversion in the jewish community, and probably also many jews leaving their own community because of widespread atheism and conversions to other religions) and you know it (Your equation wouldn’t have been more biased if you had used the population growth of Ghana or Botswana). But you also know a lie repeated enough times becomes a truth. So don’t stop repeating your ridiculous mantra (“there should be 26 million jews today”). People will probably believe in that absurdity in 2 or 3 centuries. Maybe just on time for your messiah’s arrival? 😉

        Admit that using the population growth of a country that “takes more immigrants than the rest of the world” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hispanic_Whites) to calculate the population growth of one of the most ‘hermetic’ community in the world is not math but a deceitful distortion of reality. If your equation was valid, one could notice the same racial transformation in the jewish community as the one noticed in the U.S. during the 2nd half of the 20th centuty and you know it’s not what can be noticed. Thus I’m afraid you are forced to remove your beloved factor of 0.75% (U.S. population increase) from your equation if you don’t want to look like a fool every time you use it…

        Comment by hermie — August 6, 2013 @ 5:52 pm

  8. Interesting numbers of jews who lived in Latvia at that time.
    According to Wannsee protocol there were only 3,500 living there, while “Wikipedia” shows that 9012 were “killed” in the city of Daugavpils alone.
    Apparently “the protocol” is wrong and it is a fake. Most of the jews fled Latvia before Germans even came there.

    Comment by Gasan — August 5, 2013 @ 8:05 pm

    • So the Germans didn’t have precise records from foreign countries. Surprise surprise. A good place to start is all the homes that Jews used to live in that were empty after the war. You see you fucktards can’t do math. So you find a discprenecy between the Wansee conference numbers and Wikipedia. Just follow the math. 15.5 million would not be 14.2 million today if not for a Holocaust. You cant argue your way out of that.

      Why not profess your hate for Jews, pray for the next Hitler…at least you would be intellectually honest!

      Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 6, 2013 @ 10:55 am

    • You’re right Gasan. According to Lt. Colonel Peter Matunoff, member of the Soviet Legation at Ottawa, “The majority of the Jewish populations of the Ukraine, White Russia and other threatened parts of the Soviet Union were evacuated before the arrival of the Nazi hordes.” He also stressed the fact that in many cases preference on the railroads was given to the Jewish evacuees and the evacuation was carried through very systematically.

      http://www.jta.org/1944/01/19/archive/evacuated-russian-jews-return-to-liberated-areas-in-the-ukraine#ixzz2bF1PYyzQ

      But that’s what was said in 1944, long before the arrival of top-researcher Father Desbois and his “Holocaust by bullets”…

      Comment by hermie — August 6, 2013 @ 6:13 pm

  9. 1. @SAME AGAIN – Comparing Nazis to Israeli’s handling of Gaza requires some crazy reasoming…Israelis don’t strap bombs to their vests and blow German’s up in Cafe’s For that Matter they also don’t fly planes into buildings…but hey you probably believe that was committed by Jews as part of some government conspiracy so I will leave that one alone. In 2005, the Israelis forced their citizens out of any part of Gaza so the Islamists living in and around Gaza could govern themselves. They did, and chose to lob random missiles into populated Israeli towns, usually from schools and Mosques (cowards), so once in a while the Israelis would go in, clean up the mess, and then have to start again. Had the Israelis acted half as bad as the Germans, the Gaza problem would have been solved in about 2 weeks, and the Islamists from Gaza would have ended up in Egypt or Jordan (more likely Egypt), where they would be tormenting Copts. If they were as bad as the Germans the Copts would be safer. Ditto for the current occupied West Bank (which the Israelis should have given back to the Jordanians after 1967; at that point the so called Palestinians could have been massacred again by King Hussein just like he did in the 60’s). Given your command of history you probably don’t know about Black September…LOOK IT UP!

    2. Between 1937 and 1942 Jews left Germany….Where did they go? The United States…well they tried but FDR and company closed immigration down from Europe. The highest estimate I have seen is about 100,000 Jews got out from Germany. The Jewish Population in the United States (pretty much the only place immigration could have occurred) was 500,000.

    3. Of the Jews killed, the estimates are 1.3 million were killed in the former Soviet Union. Most of the Jews in the Holocaust killed were living in Poland. Poland had 3.3 million Jews before the war and about 300,000 after. 300,000 alone is enough survivors to produce the handful you accuse being on the lecture circuit (most are far too old to speak on the circuit, but a few did…most like my grandmother did not and told stories to their families…most tried to block the pain from their memories as a means of living somewhat of a meaningful life)…By the way, to the point of further the glory, the building of the death camps in Poland supports the claim that the Germans were indeed quite efficient in their camp structures. Adding Polish and German Jews (where most death camps were), you get about 3,300,000 of the 6 million. Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka – were the worst of the death camps and Polish Jews were by far the ones who suffered the most. Jews from Hungary and Romania and other Baltic states made up close to 1,000,000…they were the “transports” which were set up in the last 2 years of the war.

    4. Russia wasn’t conquered in total but many parts were occupied. Hitler made significant advances into Russia, and many of the Soviet States. The meat grinder that was the Eastern Front saw a lot of Russians die. Russia/USSR had a pathetic military, The one thing they did have was numbers, and cold winters. Far more Russians died during WWII on the Eastern Front than Germans. Just hard to occupy a country that far away from Germany with such a long supply line…that said, not hard to kill people…and the Germans did plenty of killing AND YES PLENTY OF OCCUPYING. The biggest of the killing in the former USSR was Ukraine AND Byelorussian where WHERE 600,000 AND 245,000 Ukranian AND Byelorussion Jews were murdered. THE GERMANS DID OCCUPY BOTH STATES. SO YOU SHOULD BRUSH UP ON YOUR HISTORY, BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO GRASP OF WORLD WAR II. MAYBE YOU CAN ASK YOUR BUDDY IRVING IF UKRAINE AND BYELORUSSION WERE OCCUPIED?

    5. You once again prove yourself to be a math lightweight. The Nazis own numbers support this is there were 11.2 million in Europe, based on US Census data there were about 4.4 million Jews in the US (outside of the US and Europe there were very few Jews around the world). So once again how do we get to only 14.2-15 million today. The same math works…Said it once and I’ll say it again you can’t change the laws of mathematics. Unless you can show me that there were significantly less than 15.5 million Jews on the Planet earth before the second world war…every argument you make is completely and totally refuted.

    6. Based on my simple math there were probably 6.3 million killed but who’s counting.

    Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 5, 2013 @ 3:10 pm

    • Oh yes the wonderful and virtuous Israeli army, how sweet they are. I just wish they’d fight against a real army, they’d soon see how big and strong they are. But oh, they did, and Hezbollah beat them hahahahahahahaha!

      Comment by DB — August 6, 2013 @ 5:55 am

      • If the Israelis wanted to they could take out the Hezbollah Israel fights with one arm tied behind her back. TO think that she is surrounded by oil rich Nations and yet she kicked the living shit out of these nations over and over. Her existence is the reason that the Muslim world is exposed for the intellectual lightweights they are.

        Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 6, 2013 @ 10:50 am

      • http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n2p2_Faurisson.html

        Comment by hermie — August 6, 2013 @ 6:00 pm

  10. Is this a hanging curve ball. Lets try this one more time.

    There were approximately 15.5 million Jews around in 1937. If you are to assume a 0.75% population growth rate (very low for the post WWII baby boomer- area – and let me assure you that Jewish people do know how to reproduce, you should visit Brooklyn)

    So let me try this one more time for the math challenged Jew Haters

    If there were no holocaust and in 1937 there were 15.5 million Jews, then today there would be roughly 27 million.
    15,500,000 * 1.0075^74=26.9 million Jews alive today

    Anyway lets do the math but subtract that 6,000,000 number Mr. Irving is having so much problems with.

    On a good day, or if you punch the right numbers in a calculator 15,500,000 minus 6,000,000 equals 9,500,000
    Also on that same good day if we subtract 1945 from 2011 we get 66 years.

    So lets try the same relatively simple (for people who are not engaged in willful retardation)

    9,500,000 * 1.0075^66 power that number comes in at 14.3 million

    I checked the most current estimates from 2011, there are currently 14.2 to 15.1 million Jews in the world.

    Mr. Irving may have written a lot of books, but anyone can write a book, its the content. That and his obviously disdain for the laws of mathematics.

    As for the notion of efficiency. I have to say the Germans were pretty efficient. For one thing most of the camps were in Germany and Poland. Poland was the place most Jews Lived. In the USSR the Jews were shot and not transported. The only major transports were Hungarian Jews (my grandparents were Romanian but lived close to the Hungarian border and thus were transported accordingly). Frankly the camps were quite efficient, with an added benefit of being more secret. If the Nazis just went town to town and shot Jews on spot, that would have created problems in keeping local populations in check (that and denial). If you study the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, you might be interested to know that the Jews at the Ghetto also flew the Polish flag…this got the Nazis real crazy, because this was the kind of stuff that would get local populations aroused. The Nazis, the coward fucks they were, never engaged the ghetto fighters, they just tear gassed the place and bulldozed it. A lesson to those fucks out there many in my own flock who favor gun control, but that’s also for another day. Perhaps the Germans could have built a death camp in France, but the chose of Germany and Poland were good ones – that is efficiency speaking.

    You see the problem with Mr. Irving’s attempted assertions are two fold:

    1.) The population data
    2.) the Jews never came back to their homes, specifically the 1.5 million children. To believe Mr. Irving is to believe that the Jews just vanished into thin air.

    ***By the way kudos to Ms. Lipstadt, she could have had the Irving Suit dismissed easily…something Irving was counting on. Instead, she chose to fight, and in the process forced Irving’s hand. As I posted before, she was on the verge of taking out one of your other frauds, Germar Rudolf, as his affidavit was shared during the discovery portion of the trial…Realizing his work was about to be crushed by a lot of scientists in the field, Irving withdrew it.

    Lipstadt didn’t destroy Irving….he did that by himself….He messed with the wrong Yenta!

    Comment by NeverAGAIN! — August 5, 2013 @ 11:20 am

    • sameAGAIN wrote :-

      ‘The Nazis, the coward fucks they were, never engaged the ghetto fighters’

      A bit like the arrogant bastards of the IDF when faced with ‘ghetto fighters’ in Gaza, don’t you think?

      Comment by DB — August 5, 2013 @ 12:19 pm

    • This quote is from the minutes of the Wannsee Conference:

      Begin quote:
      Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:

      Country – Number

      A. Germany proper 131,800
      Austria 43,700
      Eastern territories 420,000
      General Government 2,284,000
      Bialystok 400,000
      Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia 74,200
      Estonia – free of Jews –
      Latvia 3,500
      Lithuania 34,000
      Belgium 43,000
      Denmark 5,600
      France / occupied territory 165,000
      unoccupied territory 700,000
      Greece 69,600
      Netherlands 160,800
      Norway 1,300

      B. Bulgaria 48,000
      England 330,000
      Finland 2,300
      Ireland 4,000
      Italy including Sardinia 58,000
      Albania 200
      Croatia 40,000
      Portugal 3,000
      Rumania including Bessarabia 342,000
      Sweden 8,000
      Switzerland 18,000
      Serbia 10,000
      Slovakia 88,000
      Spain 6,000
      Turkey (European portion) 55,500
      Hungary 742,800
      USSR 5,000,00

      Ukraine 2,994,684
      White Russia
      excluding Bialystok 446,484

      Total over 11,000,000
      End Quote

      Note that 5 million, out of the 11 million total, were in the USSR. The Germans were unable to conquer the USSR, so there were 5 million of the total of 11 million, that the Germans couldn’t get their hands on. That leaves a total of 6 million Jews that were available to be killed in the Holocaust.

      If 6 million Jews had died in the Holocaust, there would be no survivors today. However, we know that there were many, many survivors because they are all out on the lecture circuit today, or at home writing books about how they walked backwards out of the gas chamber and survived.

      Comment by furtherglory — August 5, 2013 @ 1:17 pm

    • You wrote: “If there were no holocaust and in 1937 there were 15.5 million Jews, then today there would be roughly 27 million.”

      In calculating the number of Jews who were killed in the Holocaust, you cannot use the number of Jews who were alive in Europe in 1937. You must use the number that were alive in 1942, when the Holocaust was planned at the Wannsee conference.

      Between 1937 and January 1942, many Jews left Germany and other countries in Europe. According to the numbers that were included in the minutes of the Wannsee Conference, there were only 11 million available in January 1942 and 5 million of them were in the USSR.

      Can you calculate, for us, how many Jews would be alive today if there were only 6 million available to be killed in 1942?

      Comment by furtherglory — August 5, 2013 @ 1:27 pm

      • There were 7.8 million ethnic British living in London in 1938, now in 2013 there are 3.96 million ethnic British living there. There must have been a holocaust of the white British in London !

        Comment by peter — August 5, 2013 @ 5:11 pm

        • The holocaust of white British in London is apparent. Fifty years from now, there will be only jewish oligarchs and africa-born immigrants living in London. Courtesy of Yad-va-Shem.

          Comment by Gasan — August 5, 2013 @ 8:18 pm

    • crapAGAIN wrote:-

      ‘I have to say the Germans were pretty efficient.’

      Were they? At killing Jews, you mean? Have a look over some of the pages in this blog and you’ll see how inept and incompetent they were when it came to ‘killing’ the Jews. The holocaust seems more like it was carried out by badly educated badly prepared bone-idle work-shy East European village idiots rather than ‘efficient’ Germans.

      Comment by DB — August 6, 2013 @ 6:13 am


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