Scrapbookpages Blog

February 24, 2014

Archaeologists discover tiles from the walls of the gas chamber at Treblinka — the end of Holocaust denial (updated)

Update April 15, 2014:

A regular reader of my blog provided a link to an article which says that the Star of David tiles, recently found by Dr. Caroline Sturdy Colls at Treblinka, were “an extremely amateurish hoax.” You can read about the latest report on the tiles in this news article.

This quote is from the news article:

The Smithsonian Institutes’ TV documentary division has been severely embarrassed with the revelation that its recently-released “Treblinka: Hitler’s Killing Machine” documentary—which claimed to have “proved” the existence of “gas chambers” at Treblinka because of the discovery of “tiles with Stars of David,” is an extremely amateurish hoax.

The Smithsonian advertised the documentary on its YouTube Channel by saying that “The watershed discovery of Star of David tiles confirms the existence of Treblinka’s gas chambers and becomes the key to reconstructing the death camp’s sinister workings.”

Continue reading my original post.

Original sign that was at the Treblinka camp

Original sign that was at the Treblinka camp  Photo Credit: Yad Vashem

Update March 27, 2014:

On March 29, 2014, a documentary about Treblinka will be shown on the Smithsonian Channel. The film will show the tiles that were found by Dr. Carolyn Sturdy Colls and her team of experts at the site of the Treblinka camp, where 900,000 Jews were allegedly murdered in 10 gas chambers.

The tiles, shown in the documentary, were allegedly on the walls of the fake shower rooms at the Treblinka camp, which was completely destroyed by the Nazis in 1943.  When I first read about the discovery of the tiles, I imagined that they were ceramic tiles, that you would expect to see on the walls of a shower room.

Instead, the tiles, which are shown in the documentary, look like adobe floor tiles. I would not have assumed that these tiles were on the WALLS of a fake shower room.  Who puts adobe tile on the walls of a shower room?

The tiles in the documentary look like the tiles in this advertisement:

http://www.truehardwoods.com/catalog/item/8290345/8993978.htm?gclid=CIuk8OC8s70CFc1cfgodMLYA6Q

Fake adobe stone which is intended to be put on the wall of a bathroom

Fake adobe stone which is intended to be put on the wall of a modern day bathroom

If I were digging at the site of the former Treblinka camp, and found this type of stone, I would assume that this was a floor tile.

According to the documentary, the gas chambers at Treblinka were in buildings made of brick and had adobe tile on the walls.  I don’t think so.

Why would the Nazis have gone to such trouble to kill the Jews, when they could have just as easily built one large gas chamber inside a building in Warsaw?

Continue reading my original post.

Treblinka, the Nazi extermination camp, is back in the news.

You can read about the history of the Treblinka camp on my web site at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Treblinka/introduction.html

I previously blogged about the Treblinka camp at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/new-book-about-a-polish-jew-who-survived-seven-nazi-camps/?relatedposts_exclude=11223

This quote is from a recent article, written by Stoyan Zaimov, a Christian Post reporter, which you can read in full here:

“Dr. Caroline Sturdy Colls and her team […] pinpointed the location of a gas chamber and other physical structures at Treblinka 2, the main extermination camp,” a press release states. [Treblinka 1 was a labor camp.]

“The team uncovered […] pieces of tile with the Jewish star imprint which match eyewitness descriptions of a gas chamber that had been designed to look like a bathhouse.  […]

According to the news article cited above, “The findings are set to air on the Smithsonian Channel in a program called “Treblinka: Hitler’s killing machine,” on March 29, which is part of a special month-long programming block celebrating Women’s History Month.”

So now we know why 900,000 Jews (according to this article) were persuaded to enter the gas chambers at Treblinka. The gas chambers were disguised as a “bathhouse” with tiled walls.

Treblinka is not the only place where the gas chamber had tile on the walls, to make it look like a shower room. My photo below shows the gas chamber at Mauthausen, which had walls covered with tile.

The gas chamber at Mauthausen had tiled walls

The gas chamber at Mauthausen had tiled walls

Up to this point, the only Nazi gas chamber, known to have tiled walls, was at Mauthausen, where the gas chamber was also a fully functioning shower room.  Notice the shower heads on the ceiling in my photo above.

Perhaps the gas chambers at Treblinka were also dual purpose rooms where some of the prisoners could take a shower, while others were gassed to death.

I wonder if the tiles, which were found by the team led by Dr. Caroline Sturdy Colls, had any blue stains left by the Zyklon-B used in the gassing of the Jews.  Did the Nazis use tile on the walls, so that the blue stains could be wiped off?

Germar Rudolf standing inside a disinfection chamber at Auschwitz-Birkenau

Germar Rudolf standing inside a disinfection chamber at Auschwitz-Birkenau

The photo above shows the inside of a disinfection chamber at Auschwitz-Birkenau which has heavy blue stains, left by the use of Zyklon-B in disinfecting the clothing of the prisoners at Auschwitz-Birkenau.  I can’t tell if these walls are tiled, but I don’t think that they are.

According to the news article, the tiles which Dr. Colls found, “had a Jewish star imprint.”  Did the Nazis use this kind of tile in order to calm the Jews, so that they would not resist when they were put into the gas chamber?  After all, there were 900,000 Jews who were gassed at Treblinka, according to this latest news article.  The latest figures for Auschwitz-Birkenau is that 900,000 Jews were gassed there.

The findings are set to air on the Smithsonian Channel in a program called “Treblinka: Hitler’s killing machine,” on March 29, which is part of a special month-long programming block celebrating Women’s History Month.
Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/archaeologists-discover-new-evidence-of-nazi-death-camp-where-900000-disappeared-115012/#8ZEFhybvQWIqoGe6.99
The findings are set to air on the Smithsonian Channel in a program called “Treblinka: Hitler’s killing machine,” on March 29, which is part of a special month-long programming block celebrating Women’s History Month.
Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/archaeologists-discover-new-evidence-of-nazi-death-camp-where-900000-disappeared-115012/#8ZEFhybvQWIqoGe6.99
The findings are set to air on the Smithsonian Channel in a program called “Treblinka: Hitler’s killing machine,” on March 29, which is part of a special month-long programming block celebrating Women’s History Month.
Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/archaeologists-discover-new-evidence-of-nazi-death-camp-where-900000-disappeared-115012/#8ZEFhybvQWIqoGe6.99

25 Comments »

  1. “Lastly, if that’s not enough, perhaps you can try and explain where the Polish Jewish Community of almost 3 million ended up after the war…did they just “disappear”? Look if they emigrated to the US or Israel/British Mandated Palestine, this would be easy to account, problem is the immigration to these and most countries where Jews live during the Second World War were significantly curtailed. Truth is that the Polish Jewish Community which numbered about 3.3 million disappeared.” Poland was taken by Germany in tandem with Russia. Polish Jews disappeared behind the Urals and reappeared at the end of the war pouring out of the Russian occupied zones with many making a bee-line for the American run DP camps. They ended up all over the world. Before, during and after the war Jews were leaving on boats for Palestine, South America, The Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, and Canada fiirst from Italy and Romania and then only from Romania (Constanta). Jr. senator from Texas Lyndon Johnson was smuggling Jewish refugees into the United States illegally through the Port of Galveston. They were getting off boats in Nova Scotia where harbor masters were told to look the other way. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_Haven_Museum 2.. http://www.jewishjournal.com/lifestyle/article/survivor_hadasa_cytrynowicz 3..http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4642

    Comment by who dares wings — February 25, 2014 @ 12:19 pm

  2. FG wrote: “Treblinka is not the only place where the gas chamber had tile on the walls, to make it look like a shower room. My photo below shows the gas chamber at Mauthausen, which had walls covered with tile.”

    According to Caroline Sturdy Colls and her team and from what I’ve understood, those tiles were supposed to be outside the ‘gas chambers’.

    Transcript of “Treblinka: Inside Hitler’s Secret Death Camp” (1st broadcast at 21:00, Nov 27, 2013):

    “I – But have you ever seen those tiles?

    C – No

    I – Tiles that fit in with the idea that that we are an area of the gas chamber.

    C – What immediately springs to mind is that witnesses who were allowed in the gas chamber area talked about the Star of David actually belong outside of the gas chamber buildings to build up that illusion that people were going to somewhere that was safe. We know for example that the insides of the gas chambers were burnished, as it were. It would have had permanent building material, to give the illusion that people were going into a bath house.

    I – Ok, incredible. ”

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259&start=15#p62569

    Comment by hermie — February 24, 2014 @ 9:14 pm

    • Thank you very much for all this information. So the Star of David was on the “outside of the gas chamber buildings”? On my website on this page http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/JedemDasSeine.html I have an old photo of a building at Buchenwald which has a Star of David inside a circle on the outside of a building.

      On the codoh forum, I read that the tile, that was found, was terracotta tile. I don’t think that terracotta tile would have been used inside a “bathhouse” and especially not inside a gas chamber. Remember that a real gas chamber has to have a 40 foot pipe on the roof to vent the poison gas out of the room. A real gas chamber would have had ceramic tile, not porous tile.

      It appears that Ms. Colls is grabbing at straws, to prove that there were gas chambers at Treblinka.

      Comment by furtherglory — February 25, 2014 @ 7:28 am

      • FG wrote: ” So the Star of David was on the “outside of the gas chamber buildings”? ”

        No, it seems I had misunderstood it. The documentary cited above also reported a ‘testimony’ about tiles Inside the ‘gas chambers’.

        “I saw before me a room which was not too large. It looked like a regular shower room with all the accoutrements of a public bathhouse. The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles. It was very fine, clean work. The floor was covered with orange terra cotta tiles. Nickel plated metal faucets were set into the ceiling.” [Abraham Krzepicki: Eighteen Days in Treblinka]

        http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259&start=15#p62569

        FG wrote: “On the codoh forum, I read that the tile, that was found, was terracotta tile. I don’t think that terracotta tile would have been used inside a “bathhouse” and especially not inside a gas chamber. […] A real gas chamber would have had ceramic tile, not porous tile.”

        Good remark. That’s true. Cleaning porous terracotta tiles would have been a nightmare.

        Comment by hermie — February 25, 2014 @ 8:20 am

        • You wrote: “The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles.” This is what is known as “chicken wire tile” in America. It is no longer made. This type of tile came in large sheets which could be put up on the wall or on the floor. Tile, such as the tile on the walls of the Mauthausen gas chamber, had to be set by hand in individual squares, which required more labor and was thus more expensive. Chicken wire tile was used on bathroom floors in America in the 1930s and 1940s.

          Terra cotta tiles are even cheaper. It seems that the Nazis used some very cheap construction for the shower rooms at Treblinka. Probably, more than one Jew complained about the cheap construction of the “bathhouse” at Treblinka.

          Comment by furtherglory — February 25, 2014 @ 8:38 am

  3. “The Holocaust gassing legend is the Golden Calf fart that’s destroying our planet’s critical thinking layer.” – Pat Buttram

    Comment by who dares wings — February 24, 2014 @ 3:31 pm

  4. The French Jew Claude Lanzmann is regarded as one of the most vehement promoters of the established ‘Holocaust’ story. He is perhaps best known as the director of the movie Shoa, a 91/2 hours’ marathon of taped interviews of Lanzmann with individuals who claim to have witnessed a broad variety of cruelties during the National Socialist persecution of the Jews. Not only does the sheer quantity of material compiled by Lanzmann have a tremendous psychological effect on many uncritical viewers, but also the highly suggestive techniques used by Lanzmann, which gives many viewers the impression they saw iron-clad proof for the claims made that were actually not delivered. Proud of his deceptive art of persuasion, Lanzmann told the New York Times, how one of his movie’s viewers went right into his mental trap: “There was one man who wrote to me after seeing the film saying it was the first time he had heard the cry of an infant inside the gas chamber. It was perhaps because his imagination had been put to work.” (10/201985, Sect 2, p. H-1). In order to unmask Lanzmann’s fraudulent methods, we present the analyses of three key witnesses that were interviewed by Lanzmann. After close examination, each one of them turns out to be untrustworthy, either due to their incredible claims or because the circumstances, Lanzmann’s admissions, or his witness’s later confession revealed that their interview was orchestrated.
    About the Shoa-Interview with the alleged Treblinka SS-Man Franz Suchomel

    By Jean-Francois Beaulieu

    http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Beaulieu166-168.html

    Comment by who dares wings — February 24, 2014 @ 3:05 pm

    • I got to find out about these “techniques” that the Jew, Claude Lanzmann (sorry French Jew) is using. I mean I need to hire this guy: OK lets try this:

      Mr. Lanzmann, who by the way used translators for many of the interviews that you are contesting, so whatever techniques he used were through other intermediaries. Anyway, when many of those you interview were young adults, dealing with massive trauma (like the deaths of your relatives and prospects for your own mortality), not to mention lots of time, memories can certainly be skewed; this behavior is not unique to those describing events at the Holocaust, most survivors either blocked out memories entirely or likely observed things from a different vantage point, thus their testimony can certainly not be entirely accurate (how many guards, did I go to the left or the right, what the guards looked like, etc…)

      BUT OF COURSE YOU MISSED THE POINT.

      I did not use a victim’s account, rather I used the account of a Jr. SS Officer, an individual who was not undergoing the same trauma that the survivors experienced. Accepting your premise (I obviously don’t), that Treblinka was not a death camp – you have to make a number of assumptions that would, to put it gently require the total suspension of all logic and human nature. Listen to yourself….

      An Officer of the SS, who was already tried an convicted for his duty at Treblinka (so to speak), who served time – would never-the-less give an interview with a private individual (e.g. non governmental/non-police) who was advancing a record that was totally untrue (e.g. Treblinka was a death camp); whereby this individual would then make up extremely specific details related to the operation of the camp as he remembered them in the capacity as a Jr. SS Officer.

      Think about it (assuming your assumption), you just spent 4 years of your life in a jail for a crime that simply did not exist, so you get out of jail, and then 8 or 9 years later as an old man you decide, heck let me speak to this French Jew and tell him all the details about a death camp operation that I was convicted for, served time for being involved in the operation, but really never happened. Most people who get accused of something they didn’t do, don’t go around making up stories about what the witnessed at the event that never happened. Even tt the trial (where the decisions were handed out by non-Jewish Germans- not Americans), you would think that at Mr. Suchomel or one of the co-defendants would have gotten up and said, what the h** are you talking about there was no Treblinka death camp! If there was no camp you would think that some of the individuals would have used the defense, there was no such camp. No the defenses in most of the trials is that yes it happened but I was just a soldier following orders…. I wasn’t in charge… someone else who was in charge (a point Mr. Suchomel gets defensive about during his interview, when he reminds the interviewer that the interview is not about him but about what he saw.

      For your attempt to deny Treblinka was not a death camp, you have to dismiss the testimony of all the actors, a common answer as DB, asserted was they were coerced into making such admissions (weak), but even if that is the case, after Mr. Suchomel served his time, why on earth would he then agree to speak to a filmmaker about what happened at Treblinka when (the truth according to you) nothing ever happened. If Treblinka the death camp never existed, you would think Mr. Sochomel who sat in a prison for 4 years would be a little bitter about the whole thing, not talk to a film maker about all the details, I think the German equivalent to GFYS, would be the more likely response.

      Lastly, if that’s not enough, perhaps you can try and explain where the Polish Jewish Community of almost 3 million ended up after the war…did they just “disappear”? Look if they emigrated to the US or Israel/British Mandated Palestine, this would be easy to account, problem is the immigration to these and most countries where Jews live during the Second World War were significantly curtailed. Truth is that the Polish Jewish Community which numbered about 3.3 million disappeared.

      Please gentleman a little common sense here!

      Comment by Foodforthought — February 25, 2014 @ 6:41 am

  5. http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/l/lanzmann.claude/shoah-suchomel-transcript

    Complete testimony from Mr. Suchomel.

    Comment by Foodforthought — February 24, 2014 @ 12:08 pm

    • Lanzmann documentaries are hardly known for their truthful accounts, quite the opposite actually.

      The barber Abraham Bomba, who cut people’s hair moments before they were gassed is one of the more hilarious interviews

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXweT1BgQMk‎

      Comment by DB — February 24, 2014 @ 12:22 pm

      • In my blog post, I linked to my page about Treblinka on my website. Near the bottom of this page, I quoted Abraham Bomba’s testimony about cutting hair at Treblinka.

        Comment by furtherglory — February 24, 2014 @ 12:52 pm

  6. “The other Jews, still alive, waited for two days; the small gas chambers couldn’t cope. They functioned day and night in that period. My first impression of Treblinka, and some of the others felt the same, it was a catastrophe. Hackenholt and Lambert supervised the Jews who did the work, the bricklaying at least. Ukrainian carpenters made the doors. The gas chamber doors themselves were iron doors from a bunker. I think they were Russian bunker doors, brought from Bialystok. The old gas chambers still hadn’t been demolished. When there were huge transports, the old gas chambers were also used….And here, the Jews say there were 5 on each side, I say 4, but I am not sure, anyway, only the upper four on this side were in use.”

    -Franz Suchomel … Unterscharführer

    Suchomel was not a Jew. He was convicted in a German court in 1963, and would serve 4 years behind bars. Mr. Suchomel, was not tried by Americans (probably would have met the gallows if he were), Mr. Suchomel did not have to provide this testimony but did so anyway, he was an old man at the time and could not be arrested. His account is consistent with many other accounts of non-Jews. There is plenty of information out there on Treblinka you are ignoring if you are implying that Treblinka was not a death camp equipped with gas chambers. I think a Jr. SS Officer not tried by an American Court is pretty conclusive.

    Comment by Foodforthought — February 24, 2014 @ 11:40 am

    • From the article :-

      ‘The discoveries are part of a six-year endeavor…’

      Six years? And they have produced a tile, A TILE!!, that proves without doubt that almost a million were murdered?

      And from your post :-

      ‘Mr. Suchomel did not have to provide this testimony but did so anyway….and would serve 4 years behind bars…’

      How about if he hadn’t gone along with this nonsense, he would have faced much longer in prison?

      Grow up for crying out loud

      Comment by DB — February 24, 2014 @ 11:51 am

      • Mr. Suchomel CHOSE to provide testimony more than 8 years AFTER he was a free man, he provided his testimony NOT under the threat of a court order but on his own accord. I provided the link to all his words (English Translation).

        Destroying the physical evidence, as was the case at Treblinka, was not very hard to do. What the Nazis couldn’t destroy were all the witnesses (mainly their own). Mr. Suchomel was a free man when he was interviewed, likely toward the end of his life (in the interview there are references that he was not in fantastic health). The Interview took place in March of 1976, Mr. Suchomel died in 1979. If you read the entire interview it is pretty consistent with other accounts by other survivors witnesses.

        Treblinka was closed down by the Nazis in 1943 after a Soderkommando (Jewish guards) revolt and ahead of the Nazi invasion of USSR. In the interview Suchomel, provides anecdotes on how the Germans felt, and the leadership of one of the more sadistic leaders of the camps (we were following orders).

        As for your point about the evidence…it was very easy to raise the entire camp and destroy evidence (this was before D-Day, and the Belorussian Strategic Offensive Operation). There are some photographs that have been collected which collaborate with other evidence.

        But as stated above, the best evidence are the survivors, mostly former Nazi guards. As discussed Mr. Suchomel had no need to provide any further information, he had done his time and was at the end of his life. The details he provided in his interview shows the depravity of the Holocaust. If you wish to review the audio its available here http://wn.com/suchomel , Mr. Suchomel is speaking German, so if you speak/learn German you can hear it in the man’s own words. I trust the translation was fine or their would have been an uproar.

        Another postscript of the individuals tried one notable trial did not end in an ultimate conviction, the one held in Jerusalem. As you can see from the interview there was a reference to a sadistic guard known to some as Ivan the Terrible. There was though that this could have been John Demjanjuk. Turns out that although they got the wrong Nazi, there was evidence that he was in fact a guard at Sobibor, the Israeli government however did not pursue charges. Demjanjuk would be extradited to germany from the United States.

        In the case of the last commander of the camp, Kurt Franz, police discovered pictures of the camp in an album at his home, the album was entitled “Beautiful Years”.

        Comment by Foodforthought — February 24, 2014 @ 12:56 pm

        • Yes we’re all aware of ‘eye-witness’ testimony – it’s the main reason many people disbelieve this hoax.
          The fact is these witnesses can’t get their act together, and the more they speak the more it becomes clear they are lying.

          Just because someone repeats something that was said many years earlier doesn’t mean it’s true.

          What about all the comedians who say completely contradictory things about the same place/incidents?

          How many systems did the Germans employ to gas people?
          Many, if you believe the witnesses. That unfortunately is not how Germans operate. But precisely how east European village idiots operate.

          The engineers of rockets, cars, motorway construction, one of the world’s largest militaries, culture etc etc, but complete amateurs with gassing people.

          Laugable

          Comment by DB — February 24, 2014 @ 1:08 pm

          • He was an SS Jr. Officer. If you are going to comment at least stay on point… and if you don’t like Lanzmann, why not listen to the guy doing the talking. Lanzmann ia just asking questions (actually it probably wasn’t Lanzmann), but the bigger point is that this was not a government official? Suchomel could have stopped talking at any time, and in fact warned that he might do so (albeit for health reasons). So to dismiss his recollection without making any attempt to discredit the testimony, is pretty lame. In fact, your first response implied coercion, to wit, you don’t even know that his testimony occurred well after his trial and arrest.

            Comment by Foodforthought — February 24, 2014 @ 2:38 pm

            • Enough to see the camera moving around and zooming in and out on the map of Treblinka (when Suchomel and Lanzmann were looking at the map, the camera enlarged the pointer and followed it exactly as it moved across the map) to realize it wasn’t hidden in a bag as it was supposed to be. Lanzmann later admitted he had paid all the German ‘witnesses’ of his movie. The Suchomel ‘interview’ was theater, and even bad theater. Don’t be a naive child.

              I’m afraid you’ll need more than a paid bad actor (Hadn’t anybody told Suchomel a good actor is not supposed to look directly into the camera as he often did throughout long passages during his performance? ;-)) reciting a text to convince any fully-grown adult that Suchomel’s performance was a testimony (assuming unsubstantiated testimonies – whatever how many – have any probative value anyway).

              The Sasquatch-like (countless ‘testimonies’, a few forged pictures, zero physical evidence and a bunch of gullible believers) ‘evidence’ of the “Holocaust” are always so laughable…

              Comment by hermie — February 24, 2014 @ 8:10 pm

            • It’s well known that innocent people confess to heinous crimes all the time. Also thousands claim to have been abducted by space aliens. Here’s a Harvard professor speaking on his belief in the reality of alien abductions:

              The good question is: what happened to all those Polish Jews?

              Comment by fnn — February 25, 2014 @ 7:56 am

          • You forget…The engineers of rockets – were born out of WWII and the german need to build their mystery super weapon.

            Motorway construction in Germany were the brain child of Americans who skied in Austria and who flew into Munich and found the road poor and treacherous getting into the Tyrol in Austria – read Hitler’s Banker, Haljmar Schact; even he was disparaging of Hitler who he claimed took the ideas from many people (mainly American) who were visitors to Germany and Austria pre-war.

            Yes, the Germans were complete amateurs with gassing people, however by 1942/43 they perfected the art of mass murder, but had plenty of practice in getting it right from 1933 right through until 1941/42. The second Commandant of Treblinka perfected the ‘order’ and ‘procedure’. the Germans employed many systems to gas people, starting with cars, then with the little red house, the little white hut, the german bunker at auschwitz and eventually progressed to the industrialised killed that the world is aware of, well most of the world is aware of other than the revisionists like yourself.

            This series was shown in the UK last year. The site digs are interesting in that they uncovered not only the tiles, but some of the foundations of the structure of the camps.

            Comment by Mogseyward — February 25, 2014 @ 3:51 am

            • Prsident Eisenhower built the US Interstate Highway System in emulation of the Autobahns. This is a well known fact.

              Comment by fnn — February 25, 2014 @ 7:59 am

            • ‘The site digs are interesting in that they uncovered not only the tiles, but some of the foundations of the structure of the camps’
              Wow! But no-one is denying the existence of the camp, so what are you saying?

              And as for gassing people, just give me the name of a state appointed engineer then Mogsey who was involved in this great gassing development process from start to finish,( not some local SS guy doing his own thing in some backwater of eastern Europe).
              Please.

              (And they were using rockets during the war actually, not after it)

              Comment by DB — February 25, 2014 @ 8:47 am


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