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September 6, 2015

Rainer Hoess, grandson of Rudolf Hoess, has gone off the deep end

Filed under: Germany, Holocaust — Tags: , , , — furtherglory @ 6:30 pm

According to a news article, which you can read in full here, the grandson of Rudolf Hoess, who was the Commandant of Auschwitz-Birkenau, has truly gone off the deep end.

This quote is from the news article, cited above:

Dad-of-four Rainer [Hoess] revealed: “My grandfather [Rudolf Hoess] sent thousands of kids to the gas chamber and then he came home, hugged and kissed his family and said, ‘How was your day?’”

Hand-picked by SS chief Heinrich Himmler, [Rudolf] Hoess readily admitted killing around 1.1 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and other prisoners.

So Rudolf Hoess readily admitted killing 1.1 million prisoners?

No, Rudolf Hoess made several confessions after he was almost beaten to death by the British Jewish soldiers who captured him, but in none of his confessions was the number of 1.1 million mentioned.

The number of 1.1 million is the number that is claimed by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC. This included 900,000 Jews and 200,000 others including Gypsies.

Rufolf Hoess [Höss] was arrested by the British Military Police near Flensburg in Schleswig-Holstein on March 11, 1946. In the photo below, he is shown while in custody.

Rudolf Hoess is shown after he was captured by the British

Rudolf Hoess is shown after he was captured by the British

On April 5, 1945, Höss signed a sworn deposition, written in English, which was introduced as evidence at the Nuremberg IMT; he admitted to killing 2.5 million Jews in the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, even before the deportation of the Hungarian Jews, which added another 400,000 to the total.

Rudolf Hoess was afraid of the British officers after he was almost beaten to death

Rudolf Hoess was afraid of the British officers after he was almost beaten to death

The following quote is from the sworn affidavit, signed by Rudolf Hoess, which was entered into the proceedings of the Nuremberg IMT:

Begin quote:

I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 – 5/1/1940, when I was appointed Kommandant of Auschwitz.

I commanded Auschwitz until 12/1/1943 and estimate that at least 2.5 million victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3 million. This figure represents about 70-80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries; included among the executed and burned were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of prisoner-of-war cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men.

The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.

End quote

Notice that Hoess includes “citizens” of Hungary in the prisoners who were gassed while he “commanded Auschwitz until 12/1/1943.” Wrong!!!

The first two transports of Hungarian Jews did not arrive at Auschwitz-Birkenau until May 2, 1944. Nevertheless, when Hoess was asked, during cross examination by American prosecutor Col. Harlan Amen, if his affidavit was correct with regard to the statement above, he answered “Es stimmt.” The English equivalent would be “That’s correct.”

The following is a quote from the Judgment handed down at the Nuremberg IMT:

German missions were sent to such satellite countries as Hungary and Bulgaria, to arrange for the shipment of Jews to extermination camps and it is known that by the end of 1944, 400,000 Jews from Hungary had been murdered at Auschwitz. Evidence has also been given of the evacuation of 110,000 Jews from part of Romania for “liquidation.”

Adolf Eichmann, who had been put in charge of this program by Hitler, has estimated that the policy pursued resulted in the killing of 6,000,000 Jews, of which 4,000,000 were killed in the extermination institutions.

Adolf Eichmann did not testify at the Nuremberg IMT. The Judgment at Nuremberg, with regard to the killing of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust, was mostly based on hearsay testimony given in an affidavit, dated 26 November 1945, by former SS officer Wilhelm Höttl.

Höttl stated that Adolf Eichmann, the head of the Jewish section of the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA), had told him in August 1944 that four million Jews had been killed in the extermination camps, and another two million had been killed by the Einsatzgruppen on the Eastern front.

After the German surrender in May 1945, Höttl had been recruited to work with American intelligence.

Rudolf Höss also mentioned in his sworn affidavit, entered into the proceedings at Nuremberg, that he had personally received an order from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, the SS general in charge of all the concentration camps, to exterminate the Jews who were deported to Auschwitz.

Höss wrote in his autobiography that Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler ordered the extermination of all the Jews in the summer of 1941, six months before the Final Solution was planned at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942.

The following quote is from the autobiography of Höss:

The sub-section (of RSHA) concerned with the Jews, controlled by Eichmann and Gunther, had no doubts about its objective. In accordance with the orders given by the Reichsführer SS in the summer of 1941, all Jews were to be exterminated. The Reich Security Head Office raised the strongest objections when the Reichsführer SS, on [Oswald] Pohl’s suggestion, directed that the able-bodied Jews were to be sorted out from the rest.

In an appendix to his autobiography, written in January and February 1947 while he was in prison in Poland, there is a statement made by Höss at a later date and typewritten by someone else.

The following is a quote from a typewritten statement allegedly taken from Höss:

In the summer of 1941, I cannot remember the exact date, I was suddenly summoned to the Reichsführer SS, directly by his adjutant’s office. Contrary to his usual custom, Himmler received me without his adjutant being present and said in effect:

“The Führer has ordered that the Jewish question be solved once and for all and that we, the SS, are to implement that order. […] I have now decided to entrust this task to you. […] You will learn further details from Sturmbannführer Eichmann of the Reich Security Head Office who will call on you in the immediate future.”

[…]

“The Jews are the sworn enemies of the German people and must be eradicated. Every Jew that we can lay our hands on is to be destroyed now during the war, without exception. If we cannot now obliterate the biological basis of Jewry, the Jews will one day destroy the German people.”

In the typewritten statement, Höss went on to say that in the autumn of 1941, a secret order was given to transfer Russian political Commissars in the POW camps to the nearest concentration camp for liquidation. These prisoners were shot in the gravel pit near the clothing warehouses or at the black wall in the courtyard of Block 11 at the main Auschwitz camp.

Höss wrote the following regarding the first gassing at Auschwitz in September 1941:

When I was absent on duty, my representative, Hauptsturmführer Fritsch, on his own initiative, used gas for killing these Russian prisoners of war.

This was the first time that Zyklon-B was ever used by the Nazis for homicidal gassing.

The Auschwitz Museum currently maintains that approximately 1.1 million people died at Auschwitz of all causes, 90% of whom were Jews.

Rudolf Höss testified at his trial in 1947 before the Supreme National Tribunal in Warsaw that Adolf Eichmann had told him a number of times that 400,000 Hungarian Jews were exterminated at Auschwitz.

Based on the testimony of members of the Sonderkommando who had removed the bodies from the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, the Nuremberg Nuremberg Tribunal found him guilty of the murder of 300,000 non-Jews who were registered and at least 2.5 million Jews who were brought to the camp for immediate extermination and were never registered.

For the gassing of the Hungarian Jews between May and July 1944, the gas chambers in Bunker 2, an old farm house near the Central Sauna building, had to be put into operation again, since the four large gas chambers in the crematoria at Birkenau did not have the capacity to handle up to 12,000 victims who were gassed each day during the height of the “Hungarian Action.”

The gas chamber in Krema I was no longer in use, and Bunker 1, another old farm house which was used for gassing in 1942, had been torn down.

According to the testimony of Henryk Tauber at the trial of Auschwitz Commandant Rudolf Höss in Poland, up to 5,000 corpses could be burned each day in Krema II and Krema III alone. As many as 3,000 corpses could be burned each day in Krema IV and Krema V. The old burning pits were re-excavated and five new burning pits, which were dug near Krema V, were used to dispose of the remaining 4,000 corpses produced by the gas chambers each day during the height of the deportation of the Hungarian Jews.

Tauber was a member of the Sonderkommando unit which removed the bodies from the gas chambers and put them into the ovens. This information comes from a book entitled Auschwitz Nazi Death Camp, published by the Auschwitz Museum in 1996.

The following information is also included in the book Auschwitz Nazi Death Camp:

In the end, according to a letter from the Zentralbauletung der Waffen-SS und Polizei Auschwitz to Administrative Groups C of SS-WVHA of June 28, 1943, it was found that each crematorium had the following capacities in 24 hours: Crematorium I – 340 corpses, Crematorium II – 1440 corpses, Crematorium III – 1440 corpses, Crematorium IV – 768 corpses, Crematorium V – 768 corpses.

Altogether, the crematoria could burn a total of 4,756 corpses a day.

The Birkenau camp was built on marshy ground but prisoners in a punishment Kommando had been forced to dig a deep drainage ditch, called the Königsgraben, at the western end of the camp near where the burning pits were located.

According to the book Nazi Death Camp, around 100 members of the Sonderkommando who worked in the gas chamber buildings at Birkenau were among the 60,000 prisoners who were marched out of the camp, under SS escort, on January 18, 1945 when the three Auschwitz camps were abandoned.

The Nazis didn’t anticipate that some of these Sonderkommando workers would survive and testify against them in war crimes trials after the war. Besides Tauber, there were two others, Szlama Dragon and Alter Feinsilber, aka Stanislaw Jankowski, who also testified about the gassing of the Jews at the trial of Rudolf Höss in Poland after the war.

Three other members of the Sonderkommando, who were murdered after a few months on the job, had managed to hide their diaries, containing accounts of the gassing of prisoners at Birkenau, in containers which they buried in the ground to be discovered later by survivors.

I find it remarkable that the grandson of Rudolf Hoess believes the lies told about his grandfather.

118 Comments »

  1. Why bother even commenting on your denials? Why? Because I really do not have to, you expose Hoess better than anyone else…
    You seem to find it bewildering that 400,000 Hungarians could have been disposed of by the summer of ’44 since they were not transported before May of that year. Which is it? Were Nazis, in your eyes, efficient & disciplined or were they lax, lazy & counterproductive?
    You also seem to be amazed that Hoess’ confession was typewritten; should it have been handwritten?

    Are you “amazed” or in a “daze”?

    I guess, upon liberating Auchwitz, you would have the liberators hand out cigars & drink cognac with this fraud. What amazes me most is the actual restraint shown; I would have dug a pit, thrown him in it buried up to his neck, letting dogs use him as a fire hydrant!
    As for the grandson, I think he knows the family story a bit better than the likes of you…
    I’m sure there are family photos showing this fraud bouncing his son on his knees, most likely dressed in a Tyrol outfit like a third rate actor in some cheap third rate Viennese operetta. Yes, I’m sure of this…after coming home from a hard days work of overseeing the ovens, I’m sure he came home to the joys of husbandry & fatherhood, basking in the glow of light diffused by a lampshade made of human skin, tattoo et al.

    You seem mostly indignant that an offspring of your hero has dared to tell a truth… you care not a fig that these things happened, you only care that he exposed a family shame.
    I’m sure, in that in space between your ears, you are thinking that you deserve, more than he, to be a grandson of Hoess. You seem to be looking for a family tree, yours I am sure was not as “ilkustrious”!

    Comment by Chaz — August 15, 2016 @ 12:22 am

    • What the shit does,”ilkustrious” mean? It’s a new one on me,or does the spelling of the word indicate,you constantly do battle with how letters and pronunciation of the English language work together. Maybe you have on going issues with the cerebral part,of your physiology. Much obfuscation on your part. I’ve always enjoyed arrogant people. Their arrogance gets on the way of any rational thought that may,accidentally find its way to their brain. They become ignominious towards others,because they clearly can’t structure any kind of and argument. You know. Plato made a comment one time,I’d rather like to share with you.” Wise men speak,because they have something to say. A fool speaks to say something”. You wish to contort people,to your satisfaction. When you discover you can’t do that,your arrogance speaks,to make up for your failures in not being able to make people go along with your train of thought. I love liberals. They think the world should go along with whatever they say. If they don’t ,they cry like a scorned little school girl. If you’re not a liberal,you should be. Book of Matthew,18:9. “If your eye causes you to stumble,pluck it out and cast it to the side”. If you don’t like what you read here,don’t let the door hit your fat ass on the way out.

      Comment by Tim — August 15, 2016 @ 11:31 am

  2. All Nazis suck donkey dicks in hell

    Comment by Dr Pancho — May 27, 2016 @ 6:25 pm

    • Pancho Villa! We thought you were dead. Damn! Where’s “Lefty” ? I don’t think your statement would be a good argument at a trial for the so called “nazi criminals”. You might give it a try . So according to your “name”,you’re a “doctor”. Well speak up son. We can use a medical opinion here. However,if you’re truly a “doctor”,it sounds like your a Mexican doctor from your name. We got enough of yall here in Texas . I ain’t gonna trust a wetback doctor no further than I can throw him. I’ll go to a Jewish doctor before I go to a Mexican doctor.

      Comment by Tim — May 28, 2016 @ 8:37 am

  3. Please contact me re a meeting in Berlin

    Comment by Ninameyerhof — November 25, 2015 @ 3:58 pm

    • He won’t. American racists are white trash and don’t have enough money to get across town on the damn bus, let alone all the way to another continent.

      Comment by Liesl — November 24, 2016 @ 6:09 pm

  4. An article about Rainer Höss (auf Deutsch):

    Rainer Höß — Ein ‘schriftlicher’ Lügner — he’s a fraud artist, sagt die Staatsanwaltschaft Stuttgart (says the prosecution office in Stuttgart).

    Apparently Höss supplied phony documents, including a bank statement.

    A rough English translation here: Rudolf Höss’ Grandson Rainer Höss

    He seems to be someone the Germans would call an Angeber — a bit of a phony, a con artist, he has trouble telling the truth — it often looks like he’s trying to find an angle so he can make a name for himself and make money due to his family’s past.

    Comment by eah — September 9, 2015 @ 5:40 am

  5. I find it remarkable that the grandson of Rudolf Hoess believes the lies told about his grandfather.

    Actually, it would take remarkable courage for him to (publicly, but something said privately can be reported too) declare otherwise — the risk to him would be magnified — his life would immediately become very different and very difficult. As it is now, he’s seen as a Good Person, a sympathetic figure (after all, it’s not his fault his grandfather was Rudolf Höss) — he gets invited to give interviews, make speeches, narrate videos.

    It’s not easy to find a German who will go anywhere near questioning the ‘Holocaust’, even in private — they are well-trained in that regard.

    Comment by eah — September 8, 2015 @ 3:03 pm

  6. For those who can read/understand German, here is an article about Rainer Höss — it shows the kind of activity he is willing to engage in, as well as how low the political left is willing to sink:

    Enkel des Auschwitz-Kommandanten: Rainer Höß kämpft gegen Rechtsruck in Europa

    At the link you can watch a short video featuring Höss, who (apparently) reads from a script in relatively accent-free English.

    Comment by eah — September 8, 2015 @ 6:07 am

  7. It is now disputed that the Nazis planned the Holocaust at Wannsee, the conference was held in January of 1942. The Einsatzgrupen death squads in Eastern Europe had been active since the invasion of the Soviet Union, the Death Camp at Chelmno killed its first Jews in December of 1941 and the Death Camp at Belzec was under construction. Those in attendance instead coordinated the actions between the various departments in order to make things go more efficiently and Heydrich wanted everyone to know that the SS was in charge.

    Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 6:27 am

    • Okay the guy that himmler put in charge,Wackerle. Had those murder charges put on by the DA after Munich PD investigated . The charges were later dropped. Were those murders ever bought up at trial or did they get lost in the shuffle?

      Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 9:54 am

      • I don’t believe that it was ever brought up again.

        Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 9:59 am

        • That don’t make much sense. I figured it would be a gem for the prosecution.,I figure they’d use to point out how long the abuse and murders had been going on

          Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 10:23 am

          • Hey, Tim, had a chance to look up the officer you were talking about. He actually died in combat.
            Here’s his info:

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilmar_Wäckerle

            Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 4:30 pm

            • He didn’t last long in combat. My question is this. Did himmler really give a shit about his widow shacking up with that guy or did he send that guy to the camp to somehow ease his guilt for sending that guy to the front? If that’s the case,then I say he made the decision to send him to fighting,live with the whirlwind of his actions.

              Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 6:10 pm

            • Found out one thing. The guys that run those prisons,don’t have a long lifespan if they leave the prison. The guy that replaced the first one,died in the war zone too. Sounds like they were cursed the minute they took the job

              Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 6:18 pm

            • Who took over the camp after eicke left? I know it said he trained hoss. Didn’t mention who ran the show after him.

              Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 6:25 pm

              • There were a bunch, they didn’t seem to last that long.

                Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 7:42 pm

  8. Furtherglory: Now I will ask some fault finding questions:
    1. What are the differences between the statements – evidences – of Hoess when questioned by the British Information Service, when he had to testify at the Nuerenberg trial and when on trial in Poland?
    2. Can You give me any reference in Internet on this subject?
    3. Indeed do You see any connection between the Allied Governments “not caring” attitude when Jan Karsky informed them about things going on in the Lublin area Camps.?
    Indeed and more important: The first informations reached WJC reppresentative Riegner in July 1942 from SS Ltd Kurth Gerstein – who had been entrusted in supplying the Zyklon B gas to the Death Camps – through a German business man. At a certain moment Riegner had been prevented from transmitting informations to WJC New York and London Headquarters. Worse, Kurth Gerstein “passed away” in 1945 when he stood already in Allied custody; who could so avoid to be called to take responsability?

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 1:48 am

    • “The first informations reached WJC reppresentative Riegner in July 1942 from SS Ltd Kurth Gerstein – who had been entrusted in supplying the Zyklon B gas to the Death Camps – through a German business man.”

      Gerstein?

      The alleged chain of ‘information’ (in fact, an intoxication campaign launched by the Zionist organization called “World Jewish Congress”) was:

      Karl Hanke & Otto Fitzner (Nazis) >> Eduard Schulte (German industrialist) >> Isidor Koppelman (a Jewish business friend of Schulte in Zurich) >> Benjamin Sagalowitz (head of the Federation of Jewish Communities of Switzerland) >> Gerhart Riegner (World Jewish Congress (WJC) representative in Geneva) >> Howard Elting Jr. (American Vice consul in Switzerland) >> Leland Harrison (American ambassador in Berne) >> US State Department (Washington) & British Foreign Office (London) >> Sydney Silverman (British section of the WJC, London) >> Stephen Wise (President and founder of the WJC, New York City)

      Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 8:08 am

      • In every condition where strict secrecy is needed there are such chaines which avoid attention of secret police. Clear?

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 9:43 am

        • Wolfie: “In every condition where strict secrecy is needed there are such chaines which avoid attention of secret police. Clear?”

          Clear. I only wanted to point out your own amateurism and lack of knowledge in the orthodox Holocaust narrative itself. And I think I have successfully achieved that by exposing your nonexistent connection between Gerstein and Riegner.😉

          Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:15 am

          • Herr Hermie! I could not care less about Riegner. But, as already pointed out in an other reply here, Gerstein had been suicided as he stood already in Allied custody; who had interest to prevent him from giving evidence?

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 6:45 am

            • suicided as he stood already in Allied custody

              If by “suicided” you mean murdered, then who had access to him when he was “in Allied custody”?

              Comment by eah — September 8, 2015 @ 7:08 am

              • Someone that had interest that Gerstein could not any more give evidence about his efforts to let know Allied governments about things going on in the Death Camps. Or Allied Secret Services or former SS comrades. And I tell You that I have suspects about other strange suicides too. Less negationist comon places and more critical study would be helpfull so for You as for me. Best.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 10:56 pm

            • Wolfie: “Herr Hermie! I could not care less about Riegner.”

              So why did you bring him on here?

              You’ve messed up and demolished your own credibility. Just get used to it…

              Comment by hermie — September 9, 2015 @ 2:02 am

              • Herr Hermie! I have personal reasons not to like Riegner who already had passed away years ago.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 9, 2015 @ 9:11 am

                • And do you have personal reasons, except ignorance, for making up nonexistent connections?

                  Comment by hermie — September 12, 2015 @ 9:08 am

      • I wrote about Kurt Gerstein on this blog post:

        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/kurt-gerstein-and-heinrich-himmler-both-allegedly-committed-suicide/

        You can read about Gerstein on Wikipedia:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerstein_Report

        I personally don’t believe the so-called testimony of Kurt Gerstein. I believe that it was written by the Allies.

        Comment by furtherglory — September 7, 2015 @ 9:46 am

        • The question is: Who had have interest in the strange suicide of Gerstein? This means that Gerstein had many informations to give in evidences and had been “suicided” by … former comrades?, allied secret services? So the pretest of the “chain of informatio” is very usefull so for negationists as for those which at that time did not care about mass murder and then blamed the Judenrat..

          Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 11:09 am

          • Wolfie: “The question is: Who had have interest in the strange suicide of Gerstein?”

            Persons not wanting subsequent denials or recantations from Gerstein. Dead people can’t, of course, say that they’ve said this or that or signed a prewritten affidavit under coercion, or worse, that they’ve never said this or that or signed any affidavit at all.

            Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:24 am

            • Unless of course he already spoke about it before the war ended. I’ve added a link on one of my comments below.

              Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 6:22 am

              • HCW: “Unless of course he already spoke about it before the war ended.”

                If Mr von Otter said he did, he must have done it. Lie is a nonexistent thing in our beautiful wonderland. That’s why testimonies are always so reliable…😉

                Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 6:43 am

                • The article I posted listed Gerstein’s attempts during the war to get information out. He didn’t just speak to Von Otter. So, regardless of what he did after the war and before his suicide he made attempts during the war.
                  There seems to be an insinuation that the allies murdered Gerstein. Why bother? Apparently Allied interrogation techniques were so good they could force anyone to say anything. That was sarcasm.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 7:13 am

                • HCW: “The article I posted listed Gerstein’s attempts during the war to get information out. He didn’t just speak to Von Otter. So, regardless of what he did after the war and before his suicide he made attempts during the war.”

                  Who? If you’re referring to your link to “The Terrible Secret: Suppression of the Truth about Hitler’s Final Solution”, I haven’t seen the names of other people hearing Gerstein’s story from his mouth, but I haven’t read the whole book.

                  HCW: “There seems to be an insinuation that the allies murdered Gerstein.”

                  Insinuation first made by wolfie.

                  Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 7:58 am

                • Hey Hermie, you don’t need to copy what I say in each of your replies. I wrote it after all. I can scroll if I need to refer. I read this on both my phone and Kindle, when I read it on my phone the longer replies stretch so bad I have a hard time reading what you wrote.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 9:46 am

                • Gerstein didn’t just speak to Von Otter. He also spoke to a Dr. Winter, the coadjutor of the Arch-Bishop of Berlin and the Papal Nuncio of Berlin, Orsenigo.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 9:52 am

                • For HCW; In 1945 Allied Governments – or worse, Secret Services – could not admit to have had informations about things going on in Holocaust. For many it had been easier to blame the Judenrat – allmost all martyrs – for not having opposed resistance or refused to “cooperate”. See the stupid statements of Hanna Arendt or so. Best.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 11:04 pm

                • “He also spoke to a Dr. Winter, the coadjutor of the Arch-Bishop of Berlin and the Papal Nuncio of Berlin, Orsenigo.”

                  Now I remember. The movie “Amen” by Costa Gavras.

                  Did Dr. Winter and Mr. Orsenigo report Gerstein’s statement during the war? Or did that come out later?

                  Comment by hermie — September 9, 2015 @ 1:56 am

            • What persons are you referring to?

              Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 9:12 am

        • Gerstein spoke to a Swedish diplomat named Goran Von Otter after visiting the death camps. This was in 1942. Von Otter passed this information on to his government but no report was ever filed. Von Otter attempted to contact Gerstein after the war but found out that Gerstein killed himself. Gerstein continued trying to get information out throughout the war. Whatever Gerstein wrote after the war was not his first accout. I’ve added a link below.

          https://books.google.com/books?id=ozlBZ2AXUPAC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=baron+von+otter&source=bl&ots=Ng9_KuYrtK&sig=XuUDWU6SuIFNjOmdw7cQ5qpd4Kc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwCDgKahUKEwjfmLv59OXHAhVKCZIKHecvBIo#v=onepage&q=baron%20von%20otter&f=false

          Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 2:58 pm

      • I don’t see how anyone was able to keep anything straight at the trials. I mean one name leads to another and another and another etc.

        Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 10:00 am

      • Where did you get the above information?

        Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 9:10 am

      • Where did you come up with this? You said it exposes a connection. Where is your source?

        Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 9:14 am

    • On my website, I have given detailed information on the testimony given by Hoess, which was different in his several confessions and his trial testimony.
      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/History/Articles/RudolfHoess.html

      Comment by furtherglory — September 7, 2015 @ 8:47 am

      • Here are some of the absurd things in the English language statement signed by Höss:

        As the new crematoriums were only to be finished in late 1942 [Krema II was not finished until March 1943 and Krema III was not finished until April 1943], the prisoners had to be gassed in provisionally erected gas-chambers…The doors were locked and one or two tins of zyklon B were thrown into the room through holes in the wall…It took, according to the weather 3 to 10 minutes. After half an hour the doors were opened…Firewood was stacked between the bodies and when approximately 100 bodies were in a pit, the wood was lighted with rags soaked in paraffin…The fat which collected in the bottom of the pits was put into the fire with buckets to hasten the process of burning when it was raining. The burning took 6 to 7 hours…After the first two big crematoriums [Krema II and Krema III] were finished in 1942…The cremation of approximately 2,000 prisoners in five cremating stoves took approximately 12 hours. [Note: 12h is 720m — that’s 400 corpses per “stove” in 720m, or 1 cremation every 108s.]

        Comment by eah — September 7, 2015 @ 1:16 pm

  9. The discussion about the exact number of victims does not consider that the main fact that bothers Rainer Hoess is that his grand-father had been involved in the genocide – and in an important position. Interesting that a person who commanded murder actions once at home seems a good dad.
    Here I am in contact with a lady who has the surname Heydrich – a grand daughter of a cousin of Reinhard Heydrich and in no way connected with that horrible figure – who too has problems to come along with history.
    How many victims had been gassed in a certain site or had been sent to starvation in forced labor? Numbers can only be estimated by researchers. That the genocide occured can not be denied.
    Descendants of those involved in that action have heavy psicological problems to cope with and deserve respect for their efforts.

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 6, 2015 @ 11:15 pm

    • You wrote “That the genocide occurred cannot be denied.”

      If the genocide occurred, why are there so many deniers? Why do 19 countries have laws against denial of genocide? Why do so many people deny something that happened?

      Why are so many people willing to go to prison for denying something that happened?

      Comment by furtherglory — September 7, 2015 @ 8:58 am

      • First deniers had been accomplices or person who had made profit and then right wing political groups.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 11:21 am

      • You know, when I read your question I went hunting for articles on the psychology of denial, particularly on Holocaust Denial. While they were interesting I just didn’t feel this was the best place for them. Anyone interested can google search them and read them.
        My own view on it, after doing research on the history of denial, reading some of the books written by Deniers, going to the websites, etc. is that it is a mash-up up of slimy anti-Semitism, Nazi/Hitler hero worship, far right wing ideas, etc. Anti-Semetism has existed for centuries and the far right ideas have existed for decades, the only relatively new idea is the Third Reich worship. Of course it crosses all sorts of boundaries and extremes. You have Mr. Rizoli, who seems to be an upright Christian man, then we have Hermie, who seems to be an atheist. It seems to me that denial follows along that fringe area of history, the one that says there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, that 911 was a conspiracy, that Area 51 is where the government is keeping aliens hostage, etc. This is nothing new, obviously a historical precedent is the whole “Stab in the Back” myth that happened in Germany after World War 1.
        As to why there are Holocaust Denial laws, I have no idea. I’m glad there is no such thing in the states, but Europe is a different place with a different history. As for why someone is willing to go to jail, well, it keeps their name in the limelight, it generates sympathy, it gets their ideas out, it generates interest, etc. This is why, among other reasons, I’m against such laws. Without the publicity these fringers would spout their crap into a vacuum, as it is every time they are arrested/convicted it brings them back into the spotlight.

        Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 4:13 pm

        • European governments want to prevent troublemakers to cause riots leading to tragedies like WWII. Austrian Goverment had to prevent Irving from delievering a speech inciting right wing jouth – university students – to harder hatred and possible trouble making.

          Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 6:52 am

          • I understand what you are saying, Wolf. It just seems to me that when you arrest these people you put them back in the spotlight and give them a larger forum to spread their ideas. Also, when you drive something underground I believe it makes it attractive because it is forbidden by the government. There are those that are attracted to things because the government forbids it. Also there are going to be people that will start following it because they believe that if the government forbids it than it is true.
            But, countries determine their own laws for their own reasons. Europe has different traditions regarding government and speech than the United States.

            Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 7:26 am

            • In the twenties the Weimar authorities – in the various regions – did not act with the necessary force against incitement to hatred and violence and so in Hitler rise on power in a lawfull way. Those who commited violent offences against Jewish institutions had not been punished because polices not even looked for them. Now German, Austrian and other governments did not want to repeat the same error. And watching negationist sites one can see how they are inciting people.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 11:13 pm

              • The Weimar government was lax, not only towards the National Socialist but other right wing groups. Weimar left all of the old imperial institutions intact in the form of the army, judiciary, bureaucracy, etc. Members of these institutions, even when they committed blatant treason, received light or nonexistent sentences. This is no more evident than in the case of Hitler after his attempted putsch. Again, I understand what you are saying.

                Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 4:25 am

  10. If 1.9 million deaths finally turned out to be nothing but a mere propaganda hoax (according to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum), what proves that most of the other 1.1 million deaths at Auschwitz-Birkenau were anything else? And if a ‘confession’ could create 1.9 million deaths out of thin air, what is the probative value of testimonial evidence in general? Couldn’t 1.1 million deaths have been created out of thin air as easily as the now-officially-dropped other 1.9 million deaths of Hoess’ ‘confession’ were?

    Comment by hermie — September 6, 2015 @ 9:10 pm

    • Even should the victim had been only ten thousand the fact is that the murder action had occured and had not been properly punished. .

      Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 6, 2015 @ 11:19 pm

      • I said “deaths”, not “murders”, woof woof woofie.

        Not properly punished? Death penalty wasn’t enough? So many typhus-carrying lice gassed to death (death penalty) for murdering numerous inmates, guards, soldiers, etc. with germ warfare. A lot of those entomological mass murderers were indeed punished very hard but fairly by the Germans in insecticidal gas chambers.😉

        Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 6:31 am

        • Herr Hermie! I give one example. At Buchenwald SS Sergeant Sommer – a foolish criminal – had been life sentenced Wha by a German Court. SS General Prince Waldeck Pyrmont who had been the Inspector of Concentration Camps in Middle Germany Buchenwald included …had been released in 1949 as he had been related to British and Dutch Royal families. I do not know and care what and how was doing Sommer in prison. Prince Waldeck Pyrmont found it right – and after he passed away his widow – to arrange great meetings of former SS men at Bad Pyrmont. In my opinion Prince Waldeck deserved at least life sentence and Sommer a lunatic asylum section in prison in order to be followed by doctors.

          Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 11:11 pm

          • Unconnected prating, Wolfie. Stop diverting inconvenient debates day in and day out…

            Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:32 am

    • So, then by Hoess’s statement the SS guards were never punished for abusing prisoners and the SS deliberately starved the prisoners. So even without the Holocaust the SS were cruel tyrants. Thanks for clearing that up. So the Nazis still deserved to be punished for abusing prisoners and starving them.

      Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 6:32 am

      • And by my neighbor’s statement, they didn’t abuse and kill prisoners. So they didn’t do it.😮

        You, Holo-believers, are very funny with your Ufology-like testimonial ‘evidence’…

        Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 8:13 am

        • Your neighbors aren’t Rudolph Hoess. Nice dodge.
          So, accordingly, we can go ahead and discount Hoess’s testimony. The SS tortured and starved their prisoners because that was policy. Because the SS did that to their regular prisoners, we can go ahead and state that they also massacred the Jews. Only with the Jews they also shot and gassed them. Thanks Hermie that helps a lot.

          Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 8:31 am

          • “Your neighbors aren’t Rudolph Hoess. Nice dodge.”

            No, he was one of Hitler’s classmates and close friends. He continued to meet the Führer secretly until Hitler’s ‘death’ (in fact, his departure to Antarctica, where he died in the 1970’s, with the help of Alien UFO’s). Don’t look for evidence of that: with the help of Paul Blobel, he destroyed all the proofs of those secret meetings, of Hitler’s escape, and of Hitler’s post-WW2 life with pinguins. And he told me that during their secret meetings Hitler denied the ‘Holocaust’ (only verbally unfortunately) and added that was just crazy Jewish atrocity propaganda similar to the anti-German atrocity propaganda of WW1. If he said it, that must be true, doesn’t it? Testimonial evidence…😉

            Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 8:56 am

            • You misspelled penguins.
              That was entertaining. It’s also at the level of crazy that I expect from a denier. According to denier websites that I’ve been to, Hitler was either a Jew, controlled by Jews or the Jews best friend. I recently read a book by MS King called the Bad War that stated that the camps Hitler set up for the Jews were actually comfortable way stations that were only temporary until Hitler could ship them to the beautiful tropical island of Madagascar. Of course you believe that the best plan was to have Hitler personally gut every last Jew in Europe and throw them screaming into the crematorium……but that nothing like this ever happened. Denier stuff is so confusing.

              Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 9:10 am

              • The Madagascar plan was real. The following quote is from Wikipedia:
                Begin quote
                The idea of deporting Polish Jews to Madagascar was investigated by the Polish government in 1937, but the task force sent to evaluate the island’s potential determined that only 5,000 to 7,000 families could be accommodated, or even as few as 500 families by some estimates. As efforts by the Nazis to encourage emigration of the Jewish population of Germany were only partially successful, the idea of deporting Jews to Madagascar was revived by the Nazi government in 1940.

                Rademacher recommended on 3 June 1940 that Madagascar should be made available as a destination for the Jews of Europe. With Adolf Hitler’s approval, Adolf Eichmann released a memorandum on 15 August 1940 calling for the resettlement of a million Jews per year for four years, with the island governed as a police state under the SS. The plan was postponed after the Germans failed to defeat the British in the Battle of Britain later in 1940 and was permanently shelved in 1942 with the commencement of the Final Solution.
                End quote

                Comment by furtherglory — September 7, 2015 @ 9:21 am

                • I know it was real. Had Britain surrendered in the Summer of 1940 the Germans probably would have made an attempt to pull it off. King made it sound like Hitler wanted to send the Jews to a vacation spot. Madagascar is not the Bahamas, it is likely that the heat, diseases, etc. would have caused mass casualties among the European Jews not accustomed to the climate.

                  Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 9:30 am

                • Well if you really don’t like someone,send them to Diego Garcia. Place is a first class shithole. Boredom alone will cause them to kill themselves.

                  Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 10:17 am

                • The first time the idea of sending Polish Jews to Palestine or Madagascar had been expressed in an essay of Paul de La Garde – Paul Boettinger – Professor at Goettingen in 1875 advocating the conquer of Poland – war with Russian Empire – in order to settle there German Farmers who so would not emigrate to USA and South America. The Polish Nationalists – clerical antisemites – aided by Action Francaise – submitted their plan of deportation of at least one milion Jews to Madagascar to French Government in 1937. Note: Madagascar is far away from the Holy Land and so that plan took account of Vatican opposition to a Jewish State there. The Nazis thought that Petain in 1940 had been ready to sign a Peace Treaty and so they spoke about such a project in order to get Madagascar to be turned in a Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine Base.
                  How many ships and time woudl have been necessary to transfer all European Jews to Madagascar? Clearly too much. So that project turns out a propaganda trick.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 11:23 pm

              • I’ve always wanted to go there. I wanna check out the hissing cockroach. They’re badass. I hear some people have them for pets. Don’t know why,but whatever gets one through the day. I guess.

                Comment by Tim — September 7, 2015 @ 10:10 am

              • HCW: “You misspelled penguins.”

                No surprise as English is my 3rd language.

                HCW: “It’s also at the level of crazy that I expect from a denier.”

                Yet, I tried to make up a Holocaustianity-looking story full of unverifiable claims, unsubstantiated gossips, laughable testimonial evidence, alleged verbal BS filling the holes, and real dubious Holo-characters like Paul Blobel. As you haven’t seemingly seen that, I was just making fun of the ‘Holocaust’ so-called research and evidential standards.😉

                Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 8:58 pm

                • Actually that’s the same crappy standards I saw when I read the Bad War by MS King. King is a denier. So yes, what you wrote is exactly the same that a denier would write. Logic no where to be seen, random claims no one can fact check, etc. Glad to see you have that down.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 3:40 am

                • HCW: “Logic no where to be seen, random claims no one can fact check, etc.”

                  In the purest tradition of Holocaustian storytelling…

                  What a good ultra-realistic joke that was, wasn’t it?😉

                  Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:38 am

                • No, denier storytelling. The books I read are well cited, written by historians. Denier books are written by hacks that wouldn’t know a citation if it bit them in the ass.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 5:08 pm

                • HCW: ” The books I read are well cited, written by historians.”

                  Nice demolition of your previous claim that you have read revisionist books too. From your comments on here, I had already realized that your claim was just a lie. But a confirmation from your own mouth (or rather fingers) is always welcome…

                  Comment by hermie — September 9, 2015 @ 1:48 am

                • Again, Hermie, you don’t have to repeat what I’ve written. I know what I wrote. If I need to refer back to something I’ll scroll to it myself.
                  No, Hermie I really have read denial literature. I can’t say that I’ve read all of the “Holocaust Handbooks”, some of them are over 600 pages long and I do have a quotient for crazy. I know I read the one Treblinka. I tried to read the one on Elie Wesel but frankly it bored me. There were a few others but again they were so goofy and hard to take that they did not make an impression. Of course I read The Bad War, that was recent. Amazon has others that I may take a stab at when I get the time. Naturally I’ve been to IHR and you told me about CODOH so I joined. Haven’t been back there in about 2 months. I’ve been to Stormfront and laughed myself silly. Did you know that the guys that post there are so stupid that one of them didn’t know that you have to dig in the ground to find a foundation? I’ve been to one called “Bible Believers (I think)” that spends most of its time ripping off IHR. So, been there, seen it. Still believe it’s all a load of crap.

                  Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 4:44 am

                • It is considered polite to quote what the person, to whom you are replying, wrote. You are relatively new to my blog, but already you have written 3 times as many comments as my regular readers have written in the 5 years that my blog has been up. You reply to your own comments, which is unusual.

                  I have not been able to reply to comments for several days. I finally e-mailed wordpress and they have fixed the problem.

                  Comment by furtherglory — September 9, 2015 @ 11:17 am

              • HCW: “According to denier websites that I’ve been to, Hitler was either a Jew, controlled by Jews or the Jews best friend.”

                Why would ‘deniers’ – allegedly all Nazi apologists and sympathizers – want Hitler to be a Jew or a friend of Jews? Makes no sense.

                I’ve already seen that claim too. And, from what I’ve seen, it always came from fanciful Holocaust believers trying to reconcile the Holohoax and the postwar establisment of the state of Israel. For them, the convenient Israel-establishing event known as the ‘Holocaust’ must have been perpetrated by a Zionist crypto-Jew or an agent of Zionism. And Hitler must have been that guy, the ‘father of Israel’, in their views. I guess crazy conclusions like that can be expected when almost everybody runs within a false paradigm such as the ‘Holocaust’.

                Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 9:14 pm

                • The tale of a Jewish ancestry of Hitler had been in in the thirties a propaganda slogan of Austrian Nationalists against the Nazis. Hitler had been a pure aryan and from his youth a follower of racial theories.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 7, 2015 @ 11:27 pm

                • Hey, don’t blame me for bringing it up, it’s what I’ve seen over the years. From what I remember Hans Frank actually investigated the claim that Hitler had Jewish ancestry but found nothing.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 3:43 am

                • I was already aware of that, wolfie. But the story has later been retrieved and tailored by various people for their own purposes and interests (Hitler coming from a family of convert Jews, the Frankberger connection, the Rothschild connection, etc.). No surprise in a world full of reductio ad hitlerum, in our Zionist-owned world…

                  Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:46 am

                • That’s the point, Hermie. No legitimate source I’ve ever seen claimed that Hitler was a Jew. I know Hans Frank investigated the possibility but nothing ever came of it.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 5:11 pm

                • Hans Frank had to investigate this tales as steph brother tried to blackmail Hitler with “certain things about our family”. I think that those had been how the parents of Hitler had been really related. Had they been cousins, uncle and niece or nearer?

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 8, 2015 @ 11:20 pm

          • You wrote: “The SS tortured and starved their prisoners because that was policy.” Can you give a source for that information?

            At the Nuremberg IMT, Rudolf Hoess testified about the policy of the camps with regard to the prisoners.

            This quote, from my website, is about the testimony of Rudolf Hoess at Nuremberg:
            Begin quote:
            Rudolf Hoess, the infamous Commandant of Auschwitz, was a member of the Dachau staff from 1934 to 1938. With regard to Dachau and the other Nazi camps, Hoess testified as follows at the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal on April 15, 1946:

            DR. KAUFFMANN: I ask you, therefore, first of all, whether you have any knowledge regarding the treatment of internees, whether certain methods became known to you according to which they were tortured and cruelly treated? Please formulate your statement according to periods, up to 1939 and after 1939.

            HOESS: Until the outbreak of war in 1939, the situation in the camps regarding feeding, accommodations, and treatment of internees, was the same as in any other prison or penitentiary in the Reich. The internees were treated severely, but methodical beatings or ill-treatments were out of the question. The Reichsführer gave frequent orders that every SS man who laid violent hands on an internee would be punished; and several times SS men who did ill-treat internees were punished.

            Feeding and billeting at that time were on the same basis as those of other prisoners under legal administration. The accommodations in the camps during those years were still normal because the mass influxes at the outbreak of the war and during the war had not yet taken place. When the war started and when mass deliveries of political internees arrived, and, later on, when prisoners who were members of the resistance movements arrived from the occupied territories, the construction of buildings and the extensions of the camps could no longer keep pace with the number of incoming internees. During the first years of the war this problem could still be overcome by improvising measures; but later, due to the exigencies of the war, this was no longer possible since there were practically no building materials any more at our disposal. And, furthermore, rations for the internees were again and again severely curtailed by the provincial economic administration offices.
            End quote

            Comment by furtherglory — September 7, 2015 @ 9:34 am

            • That was a jab at Hermie. I brought up the fact Hoess stated during his testimony that guards could be disciplined for mistreating prisoners. Hoess also stated that rations were the same as regular prison rations but things got worse due to the bombing campaign.

              Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 9:57 am

  11. Not to be crass, but if you crush my balls with a pair of pliers i will tell you that i shot kennedy and kicked his puppy afterward..
    I would also admit to anything they wanted to save my family

    Comment by mason — September 6, 2015 @ 8:22 pm

    • Including something they wouldn’t want you to say? Like the prisoners were in bad shape because of the allied bombing campaign? Or that the SS could be punished for mistreating prisoners?

      Comment by HCW — September 6, 2015 @ 8:42 pm

    • Well know police questioning techniques make possible such results. How many death sentences – not only in USA – are based on confessions or evidences obtained in such a way? Many victims of “lawful executions” later turn out to be innocent.

      Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 6, 2015 @ 11:23 pm

  12. I got a question. It contradicts what I’ve been told about the prisons. I looked up Dachau after I read this. In April of ’33 this fella Wackerle was running the show there. Himmler told this ol boy To come up with a set of rules for the camp. These rules were hard core. Lotta Jews died because of them. These deaths came to the attention of a Munich prosecutor after this gal Sophie Handschuch started raising hell wanting to know the real reason her son died. He was an inmate there. Well after Munich P D investigated the guy running the camp,they put 5 cases on him. They were all murder. It said because this guy had these charges against him,himmler had to shit can his ass. It said later on the charges were dropped. No surprise. Here’s my question. Why was Munich P D so concerned about the Jews that were murdered? Why was himmler worried about the guy running the prison,so he gave his ass the axe. I’m asking,because the Krauts didn’t give a shit about the Jews. So why did they file charges on the guy running the camp?

    Comment by Tim — September 6, 2015 @ 7:24 pm

    • 1933 the Nazis did not have complete control of the DA’s and judiciary that they would have later. The SA ran the camps in 1933 and the SS was still under the command of the SA and Ernst Roehm ran the SA. Himmler was Roehm’s subordinate. The camps still came under German laws. After Roehm was executed the SS and Himmler gained more power, including police power. The SS took over control of the camps.
      There was a struggle over how much leeway the SS was given in running the camps and there was always the chance in the early years of the Third Reich that the camps would disappear. Hitler wanted them so the camps stayed.
      Pre-war camp populations were relatively small and in fact there were never many Jews in the camps until 1938.
      There were rules regarding punishments but in practice the guards did as they pleased.

      Comment by HCW — September 6, 2015 @ 8:53 pm

      • “There were rules regarding punishments but in practice the guards did as they pleased.”

        Proof of that (the 2nd part), HCW?

        Comment by hermie — September 7, 2015 @ 8:16 am

        • Please read KL, the History of the German Concentration Camps by Nikolas Wachsman. He goes over the rules regarding prisoner treatment and SS guards actions against inmates.

          Comment by HCW — September 7, 2015 @ 11:31 am

          • And on what are his claims about “SS guards actions against inmates” based on? Let me guess. Testimonies, the favorite non-probative material of the Holocaustian clowns…

            Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 4:53 am

            • Look, you asked for my source and I gave it. I generally link or give titles of books where I get my information. If you don’t like it that’s a you problem. Naturally you are not going to read it but it is there.
              BTW, nice recycled denier tactic, falling back on the fallibility of eye witness claims. Maybe you should come up with something new.
              At this point I’m going to remind you that I actually have read books by deniers, gone to their websites, read their articles, etc. Maybe you could return the courtesy, read something written by a real historian. I do recommend the KL book, it’s over 600 pages long but it is good.

              Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 7:05 am

              • What’s the KL book? Hey I managed to make it through “War and Peace” and “Moby Dick”,so I figure I could deal with this one even though it’s 600 pgs

                Comment by Tim — September 8, 2015 @ 7:54 am

                • It’s by Nikolas Wachsman, it’s called KL, the History of the German Concentration Camps. Technically it’s over 800 pages but 200 of the pages are cited works. I think it’s good, you can probably pick up a copy at the library.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 8:02 am

                • Do you know if it’s something you could pick up with the kindle,purchase the E version of it at Amazon? Amazon usually offers samples of books a person can read before they commit to buying the book

                  Comment by Tim — September 8, 2015 @ 10:13 am

                • I found the book. Barnes and Noble has the ebook so I can download it. I didn’t know about the second bunker. I’ve always figured,to satisfy their morbid curiosity,people have wanted to see the place where hitler offed himself. Well they can’t see it,but they can stand in the parking lot that covers his bunker.

                  Comment by Tim — September 10, 2015 @ 5:06 am

                • I’ve borrowed it through my library on an e-version. I’ll check Amazon, see if it is there.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 10:24 am

                • Tim, I checked Amazon. It looks like there is an E-Version. My phone limits what I can see so I couldn’t see the cost but you can download a sample. When I get off work I’ll take another look at it.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 2:30 pm

                • Thanks. I check it out after I finish with the bills

                  Comment by Tim — September 8, 2015 @ 4:34 pm

              • HCW: “Look, you asked for my source and I gave it.”

                My question seemed a fair method for assessing the robustness and reliability of an information. Did you really think that providing me with the title of book would be enough for me to swallow that ‘information’ without questioning it?

                HCW: “If you don’t like it that’s a you problem.”

                That’s not that I don’t like it. I was just trying to know on what kind of evidence your ‘information’ was based. Was I wrong? Wasn’t it based on testimonies (as usually)?

                HCW: “BTW, nice recycled denier tactic, falling back on the fallibility of eye witness claims. Maybe you should come up with something new.”

                Not a “denier tactic”. Only a scientific approach. Or am I supposed to acknowledge the existence of elves and trolls (as I should do with your historical research method) and move to something else?

                Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 8:15 am

                • Posted the wrong video. Better with the comments.

                  “In the past two decades, he (the founder of Iceland’s “Elf School”) has collected hundreds of stories of alleged encounters between Icelanders and non-human entities.”

                  Waw!! Hundreds of testimonies! So probative. Where is the Yad vashem when you need it…😉

                  Comment by hermie — September 8, 2015 @ 8:26 am

                • Hey elves are real. The whole time Hale was locked down in the lunatic asylum he would talk to a green elf about building a telescope. I got a mssg poped up that says the video won’t play because of JavaScript. What’s that?

                  Comment by Tim — September 8, 2015 @ 10:41 am

                • Actually, it’s not all based on the testimonies of prisoners. It also has the testimony of guards, newspaper articles published at the time, documents seized from the Nazis at the end of the war, site investigations, etc. I also don’t depend on witness statements, I evaluate on other materials. Of, course, none of this matters to you because if it doesn’t have the denier stamp of craziness you aren’t going to read it. Read it or don’t, it makes no difference to me. You wanted to know, I told you. Again, if you aren’t willing to accept it that’s your problem, not mine.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 10:02 am

                • Why do you keep bringing up elves, UFOs, etc.? When have I ever expressed an interest in such things? I enjoy Tolkien just like the next man but really. Maybe you need to take a break from this stuff for awhile. Clear your head, take a vacation. You can go visit the Wolfschance????? I’m probably spelling that wrong. Anyway, you could visit Adolph’s headquarters in East Prussia….oh sorry, that was insensitive, it’s not East Prussia anymore it’s now in Poland. Anyway, you could go there as a kind of religious experience….oh wait, you don’t like religion. Damn this is hard. Anyway you could go there so you can picture Hitler directing his indomitable Eastern army to ruin….I mean victory….I mean, well, I can’t say victory can I? I mean, somehow the all great and powerful Hitler managed to trash the once invincible Wehrmacht. Well, anyway you could go look at the ruins and daydream about what might have been. I think it would be good for you.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 5:34 pm

                • You might meet David Irving there. You guys could commune about Hitler and what a wonderful, loving, adorable, cuddly person he was. Then Irving will tell you that the Nazis actually did kill about 4 million Jews but he’ll do it with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge that’ll let you know he doesn’t mean it. Then you can laugh about it like the two denier buds you guys are.

                  Comment by HCW — September 8, 2015 @ 5:54 pm

                • HCW: “Why do you keep bringing up elves, UFOs, etc.? When have I ever expressed an interest in such things?”

                  Suddenly, testimonies aren’t probative anymore? I was just using the Holocaustians’ laughable evidential standards.

                  HCW: “It also has the testimony of guards”

                  Testimonies again.

                  HCW: ” newspaper articles published at the time”

                  War propaganda. BS.

                  Reminds me the surreal moment at Nuremberg when Goering said he was not aware of the ‘Holocaust’ and an Allied prosecutor asked him if he had never listened to Allied broadcasts and read Allied newspapers during the war…as if enemy war propaganda had already been a reliable source of information. Predictably, Goering answered that he had never done that because he regarded such stuff as mere atrocity propaganda.

                  HCW: “documents seized from the Nazis at the end of the war”

                  It’s starting to get interesting. Why did Nazi documents deal with excesses of guards if “in practice the guards did as they pleased” concerning punishments? Such documents rather look as Nazi investigation reports used to punish the guards committing such excesses, don’t they? I fail to see why the Nazis would have kept documentary reports of punishments contrary to their own rules if such things were standard procedure.

                  HCW: “site investigations”

                  How could site investigations reveal that “in practice the guards did as they pleased” concerning punishments?

                  HCW: “Of, course, none of this matters to you because if it doesn’t have the denier stamp of craziness you aren’t going to read it. Read it or don’t, it makes no difference to me.”

                  This matters to me. That’s why I asked you to summarize it, so that I can see what you’re talking about. I would need days of 100 hours if I had to read entire books every time somebody refers to books I haven’t read yet. Feel free to bring here any material you regard as useful and reliable to prove your point.

                  Comment by hermie — September 9, 2015 @ 1:39 am

                • Have you booked that trip yet? I understand that Irving gives tours. They seem a little expensive to me but I’m sure he’d give you a denier discount. Then you guys could tour the Bunker in Berlin….you know, where Hitler offed himself after blowing the war. Such genius at work, I can see why people admire him. Perhaps you could take a trip to Moscow and see where the Red Army began its long journey to toss the Germans out on their ass. I understand they have a museum. Or, you could go to the former Stalingrad and see where Hitler made the brilliant decision to leave the Sixth Army to rot in the snow. I’ll think of some other happening vacation spots for you to hit.

                  Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 4:57 am

                • I thought the bunker where he bumped himself off at,was buried under a parking lot now. i ran across several stories about it. Unless it’s underground parking how do they give tours of it. Either way I wouldn’t want to visit. Something just a bit to creepy about a place where someone offs themselves. I guess the neo nazis would go for it.

                  Comment by Tim — September 9, 2015 @ 6:29 am

                • That quote from Goering, where did it come from?

                  Comment by HCW — September 9, 2015 @ 9:09 am

                • HCW: “Have you booked that trip yet? I understand that Irving gives tours. They seem a little expensive to me but I’m sure he’d give you a denier discount.”

                  No, I haven’t yet. I’m fairly educated on this topic to tour such places by myself anyway.

                  HCW: “That quote from Goering, where did it come from?”

                  From the Nuremberg ‘trials’. That was when Goering talked to British prosecutor Maxell-Fyfe if memory serves me right.

                  Tim: “I thought the bunker where he bumped himself off at,was buried under a parking lot now.”

                  It was, You’re right, Tim. HCW didn’t understand that Irving tours another bunker, Hitler’s bunker in Eastern Prussia.

                  Comment by hermie — September 9, 2015 @ 7:26 pm

  13. Hoess stated in his testimony at Nuremberg that Eichman gave him the number of 2 million Jews.
    Hoess also stated that SS guards that mistreated prisoners were immediately relieved and also blamed the condition of the prisoners at the end of the war on the allied bombing campaign. It would seem to me that if Hoess was tortured into confessing everything his torturers would have made him say the opposite.
    Don’t get me wrong, I know the British tortured Hoess. It’s terrible that it happened and has caused immense difficulties since then, now every denier can make the claim that any Nazi that confessed was tortured.
    But, I would think that if the allies had such strict control over Hoess they would have made him say that the SS had a policy of torture and that they deliberately starved the prisoners.
    So, what am I supposed to believe? That the British forced him to say one but not the other?
    I’ve added Hoess’s testimony.
    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html

    Comment by HCW — September 6, 2015 @ 7:11 pm

    • Hoess’s first murder:
      Hoess met friend Martin Bormann, then a farm supervisor, for dinner at a restaurant in Parchim, a small town in Mecklenburg, Bormann and Hoess and two other friends stayed late at the restaurant, drinking beers and becoming increasingly rowdy. They then spotted a former brother-soldier, Walter Kadow, eating at a table nearby. Kadow had left the Freikorps with a black cloud hanging over his name: He was believed to have have betrayed another member, Albert Leo Schlageter, to the French, who in turn accused Schlageter of blowing up bridges in the French-occupied Ruhr. (This was a fact) Five days before the meeting at the Parchim restaurant, the French had taken Schlageter onto the Golzheimer Heath, near Duesseldorf, read out his sentence and shot him.

      Hoess, Bormann and the others joined Kadow at his table, pretending to be eager to catch up with their Freikorps colleague. After they were all fairly drunk, they suggested that they go for a drive, not telling Kadow where they were headed. A short while later they were outside town and entered some dark woods. There they beat Kadow with clubs until he could not stand. When he was half dead and covered with blood, one of the men cut his throat and another then shot him twice in the head with a revolver at close range. They buried the body in the woods and drove back to town. Later, Hoess described this killing in clinical tones: “I was firmly convinced then, and still am, that as a traitor he deserved to die.”

      A few days after the killing, one of the participants called ‘Vorwaerts’ the Berlin-based newspaper of the Social Democratic Party, and told a journalist what had happened. Soon afterwards, Hoess and Bormann were arrested. It was quickly agreed that Hoess would protect Martin Bormann, it is unclear if he offered or was asked, but either way it was an act of loyalty, to take full responsibility for the crime.

      Hoess had been unworried about the arrest. He was convinced that the case would be dismissed, and the government had an unspoken agreement to release any arrested member of the right-wing paramilitary group in their support on the streets. However, this deal was soon broken.

      Hoess was found guilty of manslaughter, in the end he was not found guilty of murder, as even the prosecutor had Kadow’s badly damaged skull, he had been unable to prove whether the victim had died from a cut to the throat, blows to the head or bullet wounds. Hoess was sentenced on 15 March 1924 to ten years of hard labour. For his part Bormann was sentenced to one year in prison.

      Only 22 years old, Hoess was totally unprepared to face the prospect of a decade of incarceration.

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann — September 9, 2015 @ 1:31 am

      • Traitors are usually shot or hung. If they are active military they’re usually hung ( a soldier not convicted of treason would be shot). Whatever their reason,sounds like they were having too much fun. They had other reasons for doing what they did. Even being the arseholes they are,those idiots at the Klan never got that extreme when they murdered black people.

        Comment by Tim — September 9, 2015 @ 7:42 am


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