Scrapbookpages Blog

September 13, 2015

Why were additional SS soldiers sent to Dachau just before the American liberators arrived?

Dachau prisoners on the day that they were liberated by American soldiers

Dachau prisoners on day that they were liberated by American soldiers (click to enlarge)

Scroll down for an update on why the Commandant was not at Dachau when the American liberators arrived.  He was leading a march of the prominent prisoners to the South Tyrol.  No one knows what happened to him.  He allegedly killed himself, but he was probably killed by the American liberators, whose policy was to shoot first and ask questions later.

Continue reading my original post:

This morning I read a news article which included the photo above, and contained the following quote:

American soldiers executed dozens of German guards at the Dachau WWII concentration camp after screaming: ‘Let’s get those Nazi dogs!’

The US troops opened fire on 50 members of the SS and the Wehrmacht with a machine gun after lining them up and saying: ‘Take no prisoners!’

One commander [Lt. William P. Walsh] shot dead four other Germans and became so hysterical that his own colonel had to hit him with the butt of his gun to stop him battering a fifth.

According to a new book, the Americans took revenge because they were so outraged at what they saw when they liberated Dachau, which was home to 32,000 prisoners kept in horrific conditions.

But what they did themselves on April 29, 1945 became one of the most controversial episodes in the US involvement in WWII.

Note that the article says that the Americans opened fire on dozens of German guards.  Wolf Murmelstein, a regular reader of my blog, wrote this in a recent comment:

I wonder who and why additional SS men were sent to Dachau and what were they supposed to do, as the Nazi SS High Commander surely had not been interested in keeping order at the moment of surrender. Maybe these SS men had been ordered to prevent the surrender, which had been decided upon by the acting Camp Commandant. In those days there had been many SS Officers who refused to obey Himmler –  who had already been removed by Hitler! – and his order to surrender the camps. A critical study of facts is necessary.

I have made a critical study of the facts of the Dachau surrender, and I have written extensively about Dachau on my website, starting in 1998, after my first visit to the former Dachau camp in 1997.

I have a whole section on the liberation of the Dachau camp:  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/index.html

Lt. Wicker surrendered the Dachau camp to American soldiers under a white flag of truce

SS 2nd Lt. Heinrich Wicker surrendered Dachau to Brig. Gen. Henning Linden under a white flag of truce, after which Wicker was killed by the American liberators.

The main Dachau camp was surrendered to Brigadier General Henning Linden of the 42nd Rainbow Division by SS 2nd Lt. Heinrich Wicker, who is the second man from the right in the photo above.

Wicker was accompanied by Red Cross representative Victor Maurer who had just arrived the day before with five trucks loaded with food packages. In the photo above, the arrow points to Marguerite Higgins, one of the American reporters, who was covering the story.

The dead body of Lt. Wicker who surrendered Dachau to the Americans

The dead body of Lt. Wicker who surrendered Dachau to the Americans “liberators”

The liberation of Dachau was America’s finest hour. Americans still brag out it.  The killing of German soldiers who had surrendered didn’t bother them a bit.

Dachau prisoners celebrate their liberation from Dachau by drinking wine

Dachau prisoners celebrate their liberation from Dachau

In the photo above, notice how emaciated and tortured the prisoners are — NOT!

Lt. William P. Walsh was one of the liberators of Dachau.  I have written about him in several blog posts which you can read at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/lt-william-walsh/

Lt. Walsh is a despicable person, who readily admits that he committed a crime by killing German soldiers who had been sent to surrender the Dachau camp to the Americans. But he could care less; he is proud of committing a war crime.

Bodies of German SS soldiers who were killed after they surrendered

Bodies of German SS soldiers who were killed after they had surrendered

An investigation of the Dachau surrender was  conducted between May 3 and May 8, 1945 by Lt. Col. Joseph M. Whitaker. This is known as the I.G. Report, which concluded that the total number of SS men killed on April 29, 1945 at Dachau was somewhere between 50 and 60, including the SS soldiers who were killed after they surrendered at Tower B, shown in the photo above.

Most of the bodies of the dead German soldiers had been thrown into the moat and then shot repeatedly after they were already dead, according to testimony given to the investigators by American soldiers who were there.

No Americans were killed or wounded during the liberation of Dachau. The SS men had been ordered not to shoot and there was no resistance as they were massacred by the liberators.

The body of a dead SS soldier who was sent to surrender the camp

The body of a dead SS soldier who was sent to surrender the Dachau camp

So get the story straight, all you readers of my blog.  It was the Americans who acted badly and committed war crimes at Dachau.  Those who are still alive are still going around bragging about their crimes.

Update 11:26 a.m

Wolf Murmelstein has pointed out that I did not mention the prominent prisoners at Dachau.  I am adding the following information:

On April 26, 1945, three days before the American liberators arrived at Dachau, a transport of 1,735 Jewish prisoners left on a train bound for the mountains in southern Germany. Then another 6,887 prisoners, half of them Jews and half of them Russian POWs, were marched south toward the mountains of the South Tyrol. According to testimony given at the Nuremberg IMT, the march to the Tyrol was part of a plan, devised by Ernst Kaltenbrunner, to kill all these prisoners.

At the Nuremberg IMT, on January 2, 1946, Lt. Commander Whitney R. Harris submitted Document 3462-PS, the sworn interrogation of Bertus Gerdes, the former Gaustabsamtsleiter under the Gauleiter of Munich. This interrogation was taken in the course of an official military investigation by the U.S. Army. During the interrogation, Gerdes was ordered to state all he knew about Kaltenbrunner.

Lt. Commander Harris read part of Document 3462-PSI, beginning with the third paragraph of Page 2, as quoted below from the transcript of the Nuremberg IMT on January 2, 1946:

“Giesler told me that Kaltenbrunner was in constant touch with him because he was greatly worried about the attitude of the foreign workers and especially inmates of Concentration Camps Dachau, Mühldorf, and Landsberg, which were in the path of the approaching Allied armies. On a Tuesday in the middle of April 1945 I received a telephone call from Gauleiter Giesler asking me to be available for a conversation that night. In the course of our personal conversation that night, I was told by Giesler that he had received a directive from Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner, by order of the Fuehrer, to work out a plan without delay for the liquidation of the concentration camp at Dachau and the two Jewish labor camps in Landsberg and Mühldorf. The directive proposed to liquidate the two Jewish labor camps at Landsberg and Mühldorf by use of the German Luftwaffe, since the construction area of these camps had previously been the targets of repeated enemy air attacks. This action received the code name of ‘Wolke A-1.'”

“I was certain that I would never let this directive be carried out. As the action Wolke A-1 should have become operational already for some time, I was literally swamped by couriers from Kaltenbrunner and moreover I was supposed to have discussed the details of the Mühldorf and Landsberg actions in detail with the two Kreisleiter concerned. The couriers, who were in most cases SS officers, usually SS Untersturmfuehrer, gave me terse and strict orders to read and initial. The orders threatened me with the most terrible punishment, including execution, if I did not comply with them. However, I could always excuse my failure to execute the plan because of bad flying weather and lack of gasoline and bombs. Therefore, Kaltenbrunner ordered that the Jews in Landsberg be marched to Dachau in order to include them in the Dachau extermination operations, and that the Mühldorf action was to be carried out by the Gestapo.

“Kaltenbrunner also ordered an operation Wolkenbrand for the Concentration Camp Dachau, which provided that the inmates of the concentration camp at Dachau were to be liquidated by poison with the exception of Aryan nationals of the Western Powers.

“Gauleiter Giesler received this order direct from Kaltenbrunner and discussed in my presence the procurement of the required amounts of poison with Dr. Harrfeld, the Gau health chief. Dr. Harrfeld promised to procure these quantities when ordered and was advised to await my further directions. As I was determined to prevent the execution of this plan in any event, I gave no further instructions to Dr. Harrfeld.

“The inmates of Landsberg had hardly been delivered at Dachau when Kaltenbrunner sent a courier declaring the Action Wolkenbrand was operational.

“I prevented the execution of the Wolfe A-1’ and ‘Wolkenbrand’ by giving Giesler the reason that the front was too close and asked him to transmit this on to Kaltenbrunner.

“Kaltenbrunner therefore issued directives in writing to Dachau to transport all Western European prisoners by truck to Switzerland and to march the remaining inmates into Tyrol, where the final liquidation of these prisoners was to take place without fail.”

Rudolf Hoess, the former Commandant of Auschwitz, testified at Nuremberg, as a defense witness for Ernst Kaltenbrunner, that he had no knowledge of a plan to destroy the Dachau camp with a bomb or with poison.

47 Comments »

  1. And were they put trial? Wow! Talk about double standard2

    Comment by Tim — September 13, 2015 @ 12:13 pm

  2. Furtherglory! Thanks for mentioning my comment. In this post I noted another strange fact: the surrender had been offered by acting comander having the low rank of SS 2 Lt, too low for holding comand of an important Camp as Dachau had been. Where the real comandant, having a higher rank, had been? Did that combattant for Great Germany – who installed in last months the Gas Chamber, after those of Auschwitz had been stopped – flee? Seems to be a fault finding question.

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:11 am

    • who installed in last months the Gas Chamber, after those of Auschwitz had been stopped

      Wolf, as you are aware, it is illegal in Germany to deny the ‘Holocaust’.

      From the German Wikipedia page on Dachau:

      Bei einem weiteren Raum war über dem Eingang die Aufschrift „Brausebad“ angebracht…US-amerikanische Truppen identifizierten diesen Raum am 29. April 1945 als eine Gaskammer…Es kam im Lager, selbst zu Kriegsende, zu keiner Massentötung durch Gas. Dies wird auch von ehemaligen Häftlingen berichtet:..Ob einzelne Personen oder eine kleine Gruppe durch Zyklon B oder anderes Gas – beispielsweise Kampfgas – zu Tode kamen, ist nicht nachzuweisen.

      So, basically, it just says that the Americans identified a room as a gas chamber. But there were no gassings in this room. And no proof that it was ever designed as a gas chamber. Even prisoners confirmed this. There is no proof whatsoever that anyone was gassed at Dachau — “ist nicht nachzuweisen”.

      So I guess whomever wrote the above — likely a German — should be prosecuted for ‘Holocaust denial’ — don’t you think?

      The truth is, of course, that there was never a gas chamber at Dachau. The American troops were simply mistaken — influenced by all the heavy propaganda about “death camps”, as well as the horrible scenes they did find there — eg the train.

      Wolf, try to be a little more honest. It will make it easier to respect you.

      Comment by eah — September 13, 2015 @ 11:28 am

      • EAH! i wrote “installed the Gas Chamber ” and not else. Some Camp comanders and Eichmann in Theresienstadt attempted to fasten or start last moment mass murders on their own account. Certainly that true swored follower of Hitler let his men alone at the moment of surrender; why?

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:36 am

        • “installed the Gas Chamber”

          I saw what you wrote. There was no gas chamber at Dachau, Wolf. Initially, it was simply either a) a mistake, or b) a deliberate falsehood — from the Americans. Of course later, as time passed, it is hard not to say it was a deliberate lie. But once such a lie gets started, it is hard to correct — especially in Germany today, where doing so would be seen as aiding ‘neo-Nazis’ — for this reason, IMO the Germans would continue a lie like that rather than correct it. This is why the lie about a gas chamber at Dachaus has never been strongly officially corrected.

          So IMO you were wrong to say ‘”installed a gas chamber” — this is just continuing the lie. “Clear?”

          Comment by eah — September 13, 2015 @ 11:43 am

      • I wrote about the Dachau gas chamber, which had a sign in the shower room, saying that it was never a gas chamber. The sign has been removed and now it is claimed that Dachau really did have a gas chamber.
        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/it-is-time-to-bring-back-the-sign-in-the-dachau-gas-chamber/

        Comment by furtherglory — September 13, 2015 @ 4:32 pm

      • The gas chamber at Dachau was a shower room retro-fitted as a gas chamber to create a movie set for Hollywood director George Stevens who filmed it for newsreels and as part of the motion picture film evidence used to prop up the the German homicidal gassing of Jews propaganda presented at the Nuremburg IMT http://www.mjhnyc.org/ftc/findex.html There wasn’t a gas chamber at Dachau until the Americans arrived. BTW I thought the total of SS machne gunned was a lot more than 50-60. More like 245 which is the low estimate the Holocaust Controversiies group came to after parsing Col. Howard Boucher’s account of it in his memoir HOUR OF THE AVENGER http://www.amazon.com/Dachau-Hour-Avenger-Eyewitness-Account/dp/0913159042. Boucher claimed aprox 500 were shot. Wolf Murmelstein is “furtherglory’s” Mel Murmelstein. http://www.amazon.com/Best-witness-Mermelstein-historical-revisionism/dp/0935036482

        Comment by who dares wings — September 14, 2015 @ 8:32 am

    • The real commandant had left Dachau, leading a band of the prominent prisoners to the South Tyrol. I have added this information to my blog.

      Comment by furtherglory — September 13, 2015 @ 11:30 am

      • Furtherglory! The prominent prisoniers had been hold as hostages until the German surrender at May 8 1945. That day in the Tyrol village a Wehrmacht unit had to engage in a real battle with the SS in order to save the lives of those prominent prisoniers. The intention of the SS to murder those prominent prisioniers at the day of general surrender is consistent with the installation of a Gas Chamber at Dachau which could not perform the murders, perhaps for lack of Zyklon B. At any rate that comander tried to go safe leaving his men in the mess. Had he been caught later and put on trial?

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 1:11 pm

        • The intention of the SS to murder those prominent prisioniers…is consistent with the installation of a Gas Chamber at Dachau

          You really are something, Wolf — and I don’t mean that in a nice way. It’s like the left side of your brain does not function at all.

          Comment by eah — September 13, 2015 @ 1:53 pm

          • The prominent prisoners were taken to the South Tyrol to save them, not to kill them. The SS did not have the intention of killing these prisoners. They were taken out of the camp to protect them.

            Around 6 years ago, I was contacted by a man who wanted to start a blog about what happened to the prisoners who were taken to the South Tyrol. He wanted my help in finding out what happened. As it turned out, he never put up his blog because he learned that it had not been the intention of the SS to kill the prominent prisoners. Instead, what really happened is that the American liberators killed the Dachau commandant, then claimed that the man had committed suicide. If he had wanted to kill himself, why didn’t he do it at the camp? He didn’t need to go to South Tyrol to kill himself.

            I believe that he was killed so that he could not testify about the truth of the Dachau camp.

            Comment by furtherglory — September 13, 2015 @ 4:40 pm

            • FURTHERGLORY! Here too we can see how much a thorough study of event in their general background is needed in order to avoid useless and harming debates.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:50 pm

            • Furtherglory! The Nazis in general and the specially the SS nevered cared about the personal safety of prisioniers, they in those circumstances hold them only as hostages for deals they dreamed to reach. You should better consider that Nazism had been a murder ideology.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 14, 2015 @ 7:44 am

              • You have studied only the Jewish side of the story of Nazi Germany. You can read the other side of the story here: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/03/why_did_so_many.html#sthash.3ByyHQwH.dpuf

                Begin quote:
                A well-respected German historian has a radical new theory to explain a nagging question: Why did average Germans so heartily support the Nazis and Third Reich? Hitler, says Goetz Aly, was a “feel good dictator,” a leader who not only made Germans feel important, but also made sure they were well cared-for by the state.

                To do so, he gave them huge tax breaks and introduced social benefits that even today anchor the society. He also ensured that even in the last days of the war not a single German went hungry.

                Despite near-constant warfare, never once during his 12 years in power did Hitler raise taxes for working class people. He also — in great contrast to World War I — particularly pampered soldiers and their families, offering them more than double the salaries and benefits that American and British families received.
                End quote

                When I lived in Germany, I heard many Germans says that Nazi Germany was a paradise. The German people still had photos and paintings of Hitler hanging on the wall — behind a door which would hide the picture when anyone came into the room to inspect. The American military made it a crime for a German citizen to have a picture of Hitler on the wall, but the Germans still had such a love for Hitler that they were willing to go to jail to prove it.

                As such, most Germans saw Nazism as a “warm-hearted” protector, says Aly, author of the new book “Hitler’s People’s State: Robbery, Racial War and National Socialism”.

                Hitler rode through the streets of Germany without guards to protect him and he stood up before thousands of people in Nuremberg and made speeches without fear of being shot down. Has any American president ever done that? American Preident John Kennedy was shot down as he rode through the streets of Dallas, Texas.

                Comment by furtherglory — September 14, 2015 @ 8:49 am

                • Clearly I am interested in the Jewish side of that history. At any rate, because of my opinion that the rise on power of Nazism had been due mainly to the bancruptcy of so called “democratic statesmen” I had to face critics from the so called “political correct” side. So, I certainly could not make money writing a book or articles about my life experiences. Historical studies are too often instruments for political propaganda purposes only. Carefull study of historical background hardly meets interest,

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 14, 2015 @ 9:46 am

                • I thought all the Jews split with the Krauts at that one camp,because they didn’t want to be there when the Ruskies showed up. I’m asking because if the nazis were such assholes,why did they leave with them instead of waiting for the Reds to arrive at the camp.

                  Comment by Tim — September 14, 2015 @ 10:23 am

                • The Jews felt safer with the Germans, who were forbidden by law to have sex with a non German, which was called Rassenschande: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rassenschande

                  The Ruskies were not only allowed to rape everyone, they were commanded to do it.

                  The Germans were noted for having nice manners. The Germans still have nice manners, compared to other ethnic groups.

                  Comment by furtherglory — September 14, 2015 @ 11:25 am

                • The Reds have been and always will be savages. I understand why they murdered the entire Czars family,but people have to be low lifes to murder children like that. History wants us to think Ike was so damn great,but he wasn’t. I’m sure he could’ve made a big stink about that stunt the Reds pulled in Berlin,but he didn’t . I don’t give a damn what anybody says,there’s no way in hell every last Kraut knew what was going on. Yet the Reds act as if they did and Ike and the others turn a blind eye. Tell me who the criminals were.

                  Comment by Tim — September 14, 2015 @ 1:30 pm

          • Dachau was the place where many famous, high-level political opponents of the Nazi government were held near the end of the war. They were at first held in a special section at Buchenwald, but were moved to Dachau when Buchenwald was liberated.

            Just before the Dachau camp was liberated, there were 137 of these VIP prisoners at Dachau, including the former Chancellor of Austria, Kurt von Schuschnigg, and the former Jewish premier of France, Leon Blum. They were evacuated to the South Tyrol in April 1945 on three separate trips, shortly before soldiers of the American Seventh Army arrived to liberate the camp.

            Kurt von Schuschnigg was sent to prison for awhile before he came to America where he got a job as a history professor at a college in Missouri where I lived.

            Comment by furtherglory — September 13, 2015 @ 4:51 pm

            • A similar attempt of Eichmann to take about 300 VIP from Theresienstadt to Tyrol had been prevented by SS General and Governor of Bohemia Moravia Karl Herrmann Frank who wanted to have those precious hostages for the deal he was attempting. Fortunately Ghetto Comander Rahm chose to obbey Frank and not Eichmann and so those well known figures stood safe and had been liberated in the Ghetto by the Red Cross at May 5 1945.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:44 pm

          • This character by the name “Wolf MURNELSTEIN” is an obvious troll and provocateur.

            Comment by Gasan — September 13, 2015 @ 8:47 pm

            • PROUD TO ANGER YOU.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:13 pm

          • Satisfied that You do not like me.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:15 pm

          • Eah! Thanks for You wishes for Jewish New Year! You are really very kind to me.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 13, 2015 @ 11:37 pm

            • I don’t follow Jewish holidays Wolf — best wishes for the upcoming (Jewish) year.

              Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 3:05 am

  3. Dachau liberation reprisals (Redirected from Dachau massacre)

    Wikipedia calls what happened “reprisals”. They lefthandedly acknowledge that to some what happened was a massacre.

    A definition of reprisal: (in warfare) retaliation against an enemy, for injuries received, by the infliction of equal or greater injuries

    Decide for yourself if Wikipedia is being honest here.

    Comment by eah — September 13, 2015 @ 10:56 am

  4. As I have said in the past the Americans were the one who should have been on trial for war crimes they did the most horrendous acts against the Germans and are responsible for the death of millions of Germans innocent Germans.

    Comment by jrizoli — September 13, 2015 @ 10:53 am

    • Strictly speaking, I don’t think it was illegal to bomb enemy cities when it was done by both sides in WWII.

      But as with other “crimes”, in order to make it easier to put Germans on trial, the Allies made it ex post facto illegal after they won the war:

      CHARTER OF THE INTERNATIONAL MILITARY TRIBUNAL — AUGUST 8, 1945 — [Signatories: USA, USSR, Britain, France]

      (b) War Crimes: namely, violations of the laws or customs of war. Such violations shall include, but not be limited to,…wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity;

      Of course much of the bombing of German cities by the Allies was not militarily justified — there were few ‘hard targets’ there — the aim was to make people miserable and thereby break their will to continue the war. Unfortunately, it was the fanatical Nazi leadership that was deciding that. But like I said, the Allies won the war, so…

      Comment by eah — September 13, 2015 @ 11:08 am

      • EAH and JRIZOLI. The Luftkrieg – Bombing of civilian targets – had been invented by Goering who started the bombing of collums of civiliians fleeing in France and the bombing of London and other British towns; at Coventry there certainly had never been a military target. Then the bombing of Belgrad which had been “open town”: By the way: The Allied Air Forces did not bomb the railway connection from Hungary to Auschwitz in order to contrast the deportations.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 14, 2015 @ 11:32 pm

        • had been invented by Goering

          If so then the Allies perfected it. Of course the Germans bombed cities as well — perhaps Stalingrad being the worst example of that. Also Warsaw, Belgrade, and Rotterdam (as you mentioned) — London as well. However the point is this: the civilian deaths and damage done by the allied bombing of German cities far, far exceeded the deaths and damage wrought by the Germans via similar actions. And the Allies continued this long past the point where it was at all excusable — Dresden was bombed in Feb, 1945, just a couple of months before the war ended.

          Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 3:11 am

          • Right on! I was getting ready to bring Dresden up. No military value what so ever. I’ve heard it said,Kraut soldiers were hiding out there. Great! That’s a few Krauts we don’t have to chase down and take as POWs. Aside from that,the civilians that lived there were non combatants. So that meant,they were murdered. I fought for my country. I love my country. I wouldn’t want to live any place else. However when we pull a stunt like we did with Dresden, it don’t give me a good feeling inside. Far as I’m concerned,there’s only one reason why we never had to answer for any that shit. Ike. Eisenhower would’ve looked like an asshole. Everyone done elevated him to a God like status. He couldn’t claim ignorance on it. He was the supreme commander.

            Comment by Tim — September 15, 2015 @ 3:40 am

        • “The Luftkrieg – Bombing of civilian targets – had been invented by Goering who started the bombing of collums of civiliians fleeing in France and the bombing of London and other British towns; at Coventry there certainly had never been a military target.”

          You’re a liar, Wolfie. The German planes didn’t bomb or shoot the civilians fleeing to south in France. Had they done that, the death toll among so easy targets and among French civilians in general would have been huge, what was not the case. And the bombings deliberately targetting civilians were invented and ordered by Zio-puppet Winston Churchill. Numerous weeks passed before Hitler allowed a similar practice as retaliation. During those weeks, Hitler was mocked in Britain and his lack of response was depicted by most British newspapers as cowardice and even fear. And you look like a clown when bringing the micro-bombing on Conventry and its ridiculously tiny death toll of 568 (out of 320,000 inhabitants) to illustrate your lies…

          Comment by hermie — September 15, 2015 @ 5:36 am

          • When I first started reading your comment, I was barely awake at 7 o’clock in the morning, and I didn’t notice the quote marks. I thought that I was reading what you yourself had written, and my immediate impression was that you had gone insane.

            What Wolf wrote is the complete opposite of what happened. I blogged about the bombing of Coventry at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/the-bombing-of-coventry-and-dresden/

            Comment by furtherglory — September 15, 2015 @ 7:13 am

            • I read your linked post, and re Hitler saw this in a comment:

              (elected by the people of Germany)

              Hitler was not “elected by the people of Germany” — not to be chancellor (head of government), anyway. After the election of 31 July 1932, the NSDAP was the largest and strongest party. In Jan 1933, Hitler was appointed Kanzler by the Reichspräsident, Paul von Hindenburg, and asked to form a government. A short time later came the (infamous) Reichstag fire, which gave Hitler an excuse to enact new laws to crack down on the opposition, and therefore to consolidate his power. When von Hindenburg died a couple of years later, Hitler and Goebbels made sure it was barely noticed in Germany.

              Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 8:48 am

              • eah: “A short time later came the (infamous) Reichstag fire, which gave Hitler an excuse to enact new laws to crack down on the opposition, and therefore to consolidate his power.”

                The Reichstag fire was no excuse. British propagandist Sefton Delmer later revealed the origin of the “Hitler did it” hoax: German Communists quite unsurprisingly, with the help of the Jewish press (sorry for the pleonasm) and the usual ‘Nazi’ confessions (General Franz Halder charging Goering with that at Nuremberg (a few years after trying to murder Hitler but a few years before working for the U.S. Army Historical Division), and Hermann Rauschning’s debunked books). But historians and journalists don’t care. They like the hoax so much. The truth about that event is of no use to them, so they’ve dropped it and they just go on and on with their saucy “Hitler did it”…

                Sefton Delmer, Trail Sinister pp. 185-200, Martin Secker & Warburg, London 1961.

                [quote] I saw the Reichstag fire not only from the outside, but the inside – in all senses of the word. And as a result I formed a view of its origin very different from the legend accepted by historians.

                […]

                Author in chief – of the ‘Hitler, Göring and Goebbels did it’ fiction – was Willy Münzenberg, the propaganda genius of the German Communist Party. He had managed to escape the German police roundup on February 28th and to flee to Paris. […] Then, with the help of a small team of collaborators he proceeded to fake up a number of stories all going to show that the Reichstag fire was a Nazi conspiracy. Every little bit of fact that came the way of the team was seized, twisted and embellished to make up the ‘dossier’ which was promptly published in two ‘Brown Books’.

                […]

                Münzenberg and his team freely seasoned their inventions with Nazi names to give them the stamp of authenticity. Heines, the Stormtroop leader, they said had led a posse of his men into the Reichstag, through the subterranean passage connecting it with Göring’s palace. There they had then poured petrol over the benches in the assembly hall. The story was believed all the world over. The fact that Heines was four hundred miles away at Gleiwitz in Silesia, when this was supposed to be happening, did not detract from it at all. […] When the Nazis tried to contradict the ‘Brown Book’s’ accusations they were too late.

                The legend first sponsored by Münzenberg grew and grew. After the collapse of Hitler, it became standard practice for former Nazi highups to alibi themselves with some new piece of ‘evidence’ proving that the Nazis fired the Reichstag. But in almost all instances they merely elaborated some point in Willy Münzenberg’s ingenious myth.

                Even today, when the ‘Hitler, Göring and Goebbels did it’ legend has been thoroughly exploded as a result of the meticulous and painstaking historical investigation done by the German writer Fritz Tobias,* I fear it will still live on among the historical lumber filling the minds of most people.

                But not, I hope, the minds of those who read this book.

                * Der Reichstagsbrand, 1933. Fritz Tobias. Der Spiegel. Hamburg, 1959.[end quote]

                Comment by hermie — September 15, 2015 @ 2:40 pm

                • As I recall, earlier you said English is not your first language — the word excuse in no way means or implies that the Nazis themselves were responsible for the fire — a native speaker would not assume that.

                  The word pretext works here as well.

                  Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 9:44 pm

                • eah: “the word excuse in no way means or implies that the Nazis themselves were responsible for the fire. The word pretext works here as well.”

                  That’s how I had understood it. I meant that the Nazis didn’t use the Reichstag fire as a pretext. The enabling act was a normal response to a terrorist attack of that magnitude. Any good American president would react that way if the Capitol or the White House was burned down.

                  I first wanted to compare it with the the 9/11 attack and the Patriot Act. But as that was probably a false flag and a pretext, that would have been a very bad comparison, IMO…

                  Comment by hermie — September 16, 2015 @ 2:57 am

              • eah: “When von Hindenburg died a couple of years later, Hitler and Goebbels made sure it was barely noticed in Germany.”

                You’re wrong. Hindenburg’s funeral was a big event in Germany and the Nazis paid tribute to him dramatically.

                Comment by hermie — September 15, 2015 @ 2:58 pm

                • It’s true that there was a state funeral (Speer helped to plan it) at which Hitler spoke — but I have read on more than one occasion that coverage in the popular press — controlled by the Nazis — was muted, ie far less than what one would normally have expected for such a person — this was deliberate, as Hitler used the occasion to combine the offices of Kanzler and Reichspräsident — Hitler was still trying to consolidate his control of the army — this would take a while longer, eg see the Blomberg–Fritsch Affair in 1938 — so at that time Hitler was still careful not to offend the army, whose leadership revered von Hindenberg.

                  Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 9:58 pm

                • Hitler was still careful not to offend the army

                  Of course part of that — Hitler courting the army — was the Night of the Long Knives, which happened only a few days before von Hindenburg’s death.

                  Comment by eah — September 15, 2015 @ 10:12 pm

                • eah: “this would take a while longer, eg see the Blomberg–Fritsch Affair in 1938 ”

                  wikipedia: “The Blomberg–Fritsch Affair, also known as the Blomberg–Fritsch crisis (German: Blomberg–Fritsch–Krise), was two related scandals in early 1938 which resulted in the subjugation of the German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) to dictator Adolf Hitler. As documented in the Hossbach Memorandum, Hitler had been dissatisfied with the two high-ranking military officials concerned, Werner von Blomberg and Werner von Fritsch, and regarded them as too hesitant towards the war preparations he was demanding.”

                  It starts badly: the Hossbach memorandum was an altered version of a document written by a rabid anti-Nazi officer plotting to kill Hitler or to remove him from power (http://codoh.com/library/document/2057/). Most of the aristocratic clique heading the German army at that time despised or hated Hitler and his Socialist ‘People’s Reich’. Their words about Hitler and the Third Reich are historically as useful as a biography of Obama written and published by the KKK. Especially true for the words they said and wrote just after WW2, when they were running in all directions to save their own neck.

                  eah: “I have read on more than one occasion”

                  And I’ve also read on over a thousand occasions that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews in gas chambers. So what?

                  Even funnier when you know that most academic researchers just quote each others in an endless loop…

                  eah: “coverage in the popular press — controlled by the Nazis — was muted, ie far less than what one would normally have expected for such a person”

                  Original source(s) of this ‘information’?

                  Comment by hermie — September 16, 2015 @ 2:43 am

                • eah: “but I have read on more than one occasion that coverage in the popular press — controlled by the Nazis — was muted, ie far less than what one would normally have expected for such a person — this was deliberate, as Hitler used the occasion to combine the offices of Kanzler and Reichspräsident ”

                  Isn’t the official version quite ridiculous and nonsensical once again? How could such an allegation be proved anyway? Did a foreign journalist supposedly buy all the German newspapers of that day and counted all the articles dealing with Hindenburg’s death? And wouldn’t it have been more useful for Hitler and the Nazis to tell the story of Hindenburg’s death and of the combination of the functions of Chancellor and President in their own way, with their own arguments, in their own newspapers than to keep silence by hoping that almost no Germans would notice the death of their own President, or worse to let others tell that story in their own way? The orthodox narrative is a propagandistic nonsense.

                  Comment by hermie — September 16, 2015 @ 3:31 am

                • Original source(s) of this ‘information’?

                  As I said, I just recall reading it on a few occasions. If you prefer: the Nazis made a big deal about von Hindenburg’s death. But that would seem a bit odd, since there was a massive Führerkult around Hitler — so you’d think they would not want to do that. And as I mentioned, Hitler pushed through a law to combine his office with that of Reichspräsident. Anyway, I’m sure von Hindenburg wasn’t eg brought to Berlin to lie in state — his funeral took place well away from Berlin, and seemed to mostly a military affair.

                  Some interesting fotos of von Hindenburg’s Trauerzug und Beisetzung.

                  Comment by eah — September 16, 2015 @ 3:38 am

                • eah: “As I said, I just recall reading it on a few occasions.”

                  That’s why I asked for the ORIGINAL source of that. Who first claimed that? A German officer who had unsuccessfully tried to murder Hitler on several occasions during the previous years and/or who was trying to stay away from the Soviet-Allied ropes at that time? A Jewish newspaper? A Zionist writer decades after WW2? Who?

                  eah: “If you prefer: the Nazis made a big deal about von Hindenburg’s death.”

                  It’s not that I prefer that. I’m just trying to assess the reliability of this claim.

                  eah: “But that would seem a bit odd, since there was a massive Führerkult around Hitler — so you’d think they would not want to do that.”

                  Why not? Had I been Goebbels, I would have made a big deal of Hindenburg’s death and I would have depicted Hitler as his natural political heir. IMO, that’s what was done most likely.

                  eah: “his funeral took place well away from Berlin, and seemed to mostly a military affair.”

                  No surprise for a military hero like Hindenburg. If Hindenburg wasn’t worth of the Tannenberg memorial, who was? Still doesn’t prove that his death was more or less concealed from the German population…

                  Comment by hermie — September 16, 2015 @ 5:19 am


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