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September 21, 2015

Woman accused of being a member of the SS is charged with 260,000 deaths at Auschwitz

Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: , , , — furtherglory @ 12:52 pm

There were women in the SS?  Who knew!

I rushed to Wikipedia and looked it up, just to make sure:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_guards_in_Nazi_concentration_camps

Here’s what Wikipedia says:

The Aufseherinnen were female guards in Nazi concentration camps during The Holocaust. Of the 55,000 guards who served in Nazi concentration camps, about 3,700 were women. In 1942, the first female guards arrived at Auschwitz and Majdanek from Ravensbrück. The year after, the Nazis began conscripting women because of a guard shortage. The German title for this position, Aufseherin (plural Aufseherinnen) means female overseer or attendant. Later female guards were dispersed to Bolzano (1944–45), Kaiserwald-Riga (1943-44), Mauthausen (March–May 1945), Neue Bremm (1943–44), Stutthof (1942–45), Vaivara (1943–44), Vught (1943–44), and at other Nazi concentration camps, subcamps, work camps, detention camps, etc.

Wikipedia does not say that women were members of the SS. But it doesn’t matter.  Germany is running out of 90-year-old men to put on trial, so now they are going after a 91-year-old woman.

Was this 91 year old woman responsible for killing Jews at Auschwitz?  Of course — she was there, wasn’t she? That makes her guilty.

I blogged about Herte Botha, a female guard at Bergen Belsen in this blog post:  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/07/20/herte-bothe-a-cruel-female-guard-at-bergen-belsen-who-served-time-in-prison/

Herte Bothe is the woman on the right

Herte Bothe is the woman on the right

I previously blogged about Irma Grese at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/irma-grese/

39 Comments »

  1. The SS MAIDEN – SS Female Members – wore uniform and, it seems, had SS low levell ranks and acted as guards in the Concentration Camps. That woman could result an important witness for history like Groening or Demjanuk.

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 21, 2015 @ 11:12 pm

    • an important witness for history

      Not likely. It could only be more eyewitness testimony, and, really, isn’t there too much of that already? Isn’t that the big problem with the conventional ‘Holocaust’ story? — too much of it relies on eyewitness testimony, some of it impossible to believe — the lack of convincing forensic evidence is the problem, and putting this old woman on trial is not going to fix that.

      Reportedly she was a radio operator — perhaps you are aware that the Allies could intercept and decode German transmissions, including those coming from concentration camps — yet those intercepts have never played a prominent role as proof of the ‘Holocaust’ — there is a reason for that.

      Comment by eah — September 22, 2015 @ 1:39 am

      • eah. After WWII the Allies had no interest to have a radio operator give evidence about the messages transmitted and intercepted refering to things going on in the Death and Concentration Camps. Indeed the Allies did nothing to help the victims. Therefore the statements of this defendant – who in Germany already does not risk to serve prison term – could be very interesting.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 22, 2015 @ 7:37 am

        • could be very interesting

          Sure Wolf.

          Many times in comments here you’ve said that ‘Holocaust’ survivors shouldn’t be questioned too closely — no, that would be traumatic. But you’re perfectly happy to see some 91 y/o woman dragged into court and interrogated, even after 70+ years — for all you know, she could have cleaned toilets there — but let’s put her on trial anyway — it could be “very interesting” — nothing is too traumatic for her.

          Comment by eah — September 22, 2015 @ 2:25 pm

          • eah: Survivors – so victims as perpetrators – at present time should be simply asked to speak without bothering or interreputing them continously with questions like “but mr or mrs so and so had stated that …”. Groening gave evidence about how the personal belonging of victims of Auschwitz – gassed or sent on forced labor – had been handled. Demjanuk in German Court gave evidence about the choice “starvation or enlisting in the SS Auxiliary troops. We know the fate of some Jewish Comunity in Poland only because an aged former SS man – an ethnic German from Russia – felt his duty before passing away to talk about the mass shootings he took part in. But You in USA have no understanding for what happened in Europe at those times of darkness.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 23, 2015 @ 4:04 am

          • The complaint I hear from revisionists is often we rely too much on eyewitness testimony of the Jews in the camps. Well, why not interview the surviving guards? Wouldn’t you be interested in what they have to say? How about this, if she said that no Jews were mistreated in the camps and there were no gas chambers, would that change your mind? Wouldn’t you then take her testimony and say, “See, we’ve been telling you all of these years that none of it ever happened?” Wouldn’t that be worth subjecting her to a little trauma to finally disprove the Holocaust? Or, would you say “No, we can’t trust her testimony, she’s too old and has been through a traumatic experience.”
            I doubt it.

            Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 10:25 am

            • That would make no difference for me. In fact, awaiting ‘trial’, ALL the ‘major German war criminals’ denied that “the Nazis had any plans to exterminate the Jews of Europe.” And at Nuremberg, on the question of whether the SS members recognized the destruction of Jewry as an aim of the leaders, 1,593 out of 1,637 affidavits which mentionned that topic stated that the Jewish problem was not to be solved by killing and that they had no knowledge of these intentions of their leaders. I don’t think that additional denials woud prove or disprove anything.

              Comment by hermie — September 23, 2015 @ 3:54 pm

              • HCW, HERMIE: A story I read years ago: A German father takes his daughter to visit Auschwitz. During the guided visit he explained continously that “this is not exact as it had been so …”. Years after the journey that daughter learned that her father knew the things having been there as an SS guard and after war had served some years of prison term. Clearly victims and perpetrator should not heard toghether but separately; at any way without police style questioning but only listening carefull their account.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 24, 2015 @ 3:09 am

                • I agree with you. The survivors, both guards and inmates, are a fount of historical knowledge and need this information recorded.

                  Comment by HCW — September 24, 2015 @ 7:11 am

                • HCW, Hermie, eah: Furthermore, as I understood, she operated the radio at Auschwitz when the Death Camp had to be made ready for the arrival of the Hungarian Jews, mostly aged persons, women and children to be suddenly sent to the Gas Chambers, So what the Allies could learn from the intercepted radio messages? And why they not even bombed some important railway plants in Slovacchia and Nord Hungary? Note that the same points of railway plants had been important for supplying the German battlefront in the East.
                  Besides, among the person deported from Hungary I have three relatives who, as they were then young, managed to survive.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 24, 2015 @ 11:02 pm

                • Further to my comment on Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz: Among those victims I had also some relatives – of the side of my mother – who did not return. I myself do not know all the names as at home we avoided to speak too much about them; it had been too sensitive for my mother.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 24, 2015 @ 11:20 pm

    • “The SS MAIDEN – SS Female Members – wore uniform and, it seems, had SS low levell ranks”

      There were no SS women. The Schutzstaffel was for men only.

      Another great self-demolition of your own credibility…

      Comment by hermie — September 22, 2015 @ 2:47 am

      • hermie! Kogon in his book mentions expressly SS female sergeants who guarded the Lager Bordell – Camp bothrell. However I never said – it does not matter here – that they had been full members of the SS. In the event You have more information i will apreciate. Best. Wolf.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 22, 2015 @ 7:42 am

        • The information I’m turning up about about female SS members seems a bit ambiguous.
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_guards_in_Nazi_concentration_camps
          I don’t think women could join the SS but the above article states they could join similar organizations. KL, the History of the German Concentration Camps, mentioned that the female guards were not SS members.

          Comment by HCW — September 22, 2015 @ 8:08 am

        • I wrote about Eugen Kogon on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/what-was-it-really-like-at-buchenwald/

          Kogon was a “liar, liar, pants on fire” witness at the trial of the Buchenwald men.

          Comment by furtherglory — September 22, 2015 @ 8:23 am

        • wolf: “hermie! Kogon in his book mentions expressly SS female sergeants who guarded the Lager Bordell ”

          And many journalists and historians claim that concentration camp guards were Gestapo guys. What to expect from people unable to dinstiguish between the Gestapo and the Schutzstaffel? So much ignorance around…

          Comment by hermie — September 22, 2015 @ 4:56 pm

          • Agreed. J. Rizoli didn’t know the difference between Sondercommando and Kapos. Such an ignorant revisionist.

            Comment by HCW — September 22, 2015 @ 5:15 pm

            • Shame on him. He should punished for that and forced to inhale a full can of bug spray…

              Comment by hermie — September 23, 2015 @ 2:59 pm

              • I’d agree to that.

                Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 3:04 pm

              • And then forced to read all of the Holocaust Handbooks, all 30 or so, in a 24 hour period.

                Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 3:08 pm

          • Hermie! Kogon stood there in a position he could see and/or hear and learn things. Paperwasters You mention did not stay there. In many Concentration Camps there was a Gestapo Office – Politische Abteilung.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 23, 2015 @ 3:42 am

            • wolf: “In many Concentration Camps there was a Gestapo Office – Politische Abteilung.”

              I was not talking about Gestapo offices in some concentration camps. I was talking about a general confusion between SS men and Gestapo agents on the part of most alleged scholars and journalists. A mistake so widespread that even furtherglory used to make it sometimes until I pointed it out to him on here.

              Comment by hermie — September 23, 2015 @ 7:43 am

              • Hermie! The Gestapo in 1933 had been set up whitin the Prussian State Police by Goering as Prussian Minister of Interior. In 1936 as Himmler unified the various regional polices the Gestapo had been in whole Germany then also in Austria and Bohemia-Moravia. Most of the Gestapo men came from the former polices. The Concentration Camp guards belonged to SS troop – TOTENKOPF VERBAENDE or VERFUEGUNGSTRUPPEN. Best.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 23, 2015 @ 8:38 am

                • Best to you as well, Wolf.
                  I’ve never had conversations with a survivor, there are none in my community, at least not that I know of. Your insight into that time fascinates me.

                  Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 10:43 am

              • I don’t think the SS and Gestapo handed out organizational charts. The confusion is understandable, especially just after the war when everyone was trying to sort out the mess that was the Nazi government.

                Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 10:16 am

                • HCW: The confusion had been part of the design in order so to avoid insight from outside as to put the various “leading figures” in s hard competion whith each other; so Hitler had the controll almost untile the end. For comparision: Mussolini had been ousted through a cospiracy of the leading figures of his regime. Best.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 23, 2015 @ 10:35 am

                • HCW: “The confusion is understandable, especially just after the war when everyone was trying to sort out the mess that was the Nazi government.”

                  The confusion is understandable, as academic twistorians are lazy storyllers merely quoting each others. Their major contributions to historical research are pictorial artworks. Not that easy to embed a bloody swastika in an old photo in black and white…😉

                  Comment by hermie — September 23, 2015 @ 3:09 pm

                • I’m of course referring to the spectacular cover of their books.

                  Comment by hermie — September 23, 2015 @ 3:12 pm

  2. This is off the subject here. The holocaust museum has a “genocide early warning project” going on. They “identify” areas in the world . They either ain’t fully informed or only use the countries that can get enough airtime. I’ll give em credit. They’ve finally recognized the Mayans in Guatemala . They’ve still fallen short on the Montagnards in Southeast Asia. Guess they count.

    Comment by Tim — September 21, 2015 @ 8:20 pm

  3. Wikipedia? Come on FG. You should know better than anybody,they’re the liberal site from hell. Cmon. You were a journalist long before any people that work at that site,were even born. You earned your bones long before any of them did.

    Comment by Tim — September 21, 2015 @ 7:27 pm

  4. This will make a great Hollywood film ; similar to the Reader. Obviously Kate Winslett would be too young to portray this lady . Maybe they could get Meryl Streep ? She did do a good performance as a demented elderly lady in the film based on Margaret Thatcher

    Comment by peter — September 21, 2015 @ 3:12 pm

  5. German woman, 91, is charged with 260,000 counts of accessory to murder as prosecutors accuse her of being a Nazi SS radio operator who served in Auschwitz

    260,000 counts of accessory to murder

    For being a radio operator.

    When I first saw this story, for some reason I thought of Traudl Junge, one of Hitler’s secretaries — you can see her talk about her time with Hitler in the documentary film Im toten Winkel – Hitlers Sekretärin — well worth watching. I think it’s pretty clear that Nazi military operations were responsible for many times the number of deaths that occurred in the alleged attempted extermination of the Jews. I don’t know exactly what her duties were, but one could ask: Did she type up military orders? Did these orders then cause German troop movements that later resulted in untold numbers of dead and wounded? Over years and years? If so, maybe she should have been charged as an accessory to murder as well. After all, one of the charges at the IMT was ‘Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace’ — basically waging war. Makes as much sense as charging a radio operator.

    Comment by eah — September 21, 2015 @ 1:16 pm

    • Are you seriously? ” Did she type up military orders? Did these orders then cause German troop movements that later resulted in untold numbers of dead and wounded? Over years and years? If so, maybe she should have been charged as an accessory to murder as well. After all, one of the charges at the IMT was ‘Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace’ ” Those are military tasks and she wore an uniform, their duties are covered by the Geneva conventions……..you recall that Great Britain declared war and rejected each peace offer? And for the Soviet Union, it was Stalin who broke the pact, sending the ultimatium to Romania in July,1940.With the rejection of the peace offery by Great Britain and the caltalogue of demands, presented by Molotov in November,1940 it became clear that the Soviet Union will attack.

      Comment by Geomant — September 21, 2015 @ 7:32 pm

      • Britain declared war because Germany invaded Poland. This was covered by treaty. The same treaty also dictated that France declare war on Germany. A secret protocol of that treaty stated thi was only if Germany invaded would France and Britain declare war and only on Germany.
        How does an ultimatum equal the abrogation of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

        Comment by HCW — September 21, 2015 @ 8:00 pm

        • HCW. Declared war but did nothing to help Poland. Then months passed and Hitler could start the Western Blitzkrieg.

          Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — September 23, 2015 @ 8:44 am

          • The fact that Britain and France did nothing came as a huge shock to the Polish who assumed both countries would come to their aid right away. A British General, Ironsides, actually told the Polish in Britain that they didn’t make a very good show of it. Both France and Britain thought the Polish would hold out longer, French plans did not envisage any offensives to come any sooner than 1942.
            Neither the British or French realized the offensive capabilities of tanks and planes and what effect they had on static defenses. The Polish were outmanned and out machined.

            Comment by HCW — September 23, 2015 @ 10:11 am

      • Also, the British had no reason to believe would honor any peace agreements.

        Comment by HCW — September 21, 2015 @ 8:01 pm

        • Sorry, the British had no reason to believe Hitler.

          Comment by HCW — September 21, 2015 @ 8:02 pm

      • their duties are covered by the Geneva conventions

        Two of the Anklagepunkte at the IMT were “1-Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of a crime against peace”, and “2-Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace” — these were charges made up by the Allies for the occasion.

        A pair of high-ranking German generals, Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel, were convicted and hanged at Nürnberg. Both were convicted on the two counts mentioned above, as well as “3-War crimes”, and “4-Crimes against humanity”. There is some evidence that it was conviction on counts 3 and 4 that got them hanged — Rudolf Hess was the only person convicted on just counts 1 and 2 (an absurd conviction, really — eg there was never any evidence that Hitler even bothered to inform Hess of his plans to attack the Soviet Union, even though Hess was Deputy Führer), and he was given life (some say due to the perception of his mental incapacity).

        Comment by eah — September 22, 2015 @ 4:55 am


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