Scrapbookpages Blog

September 30, 2015

Free speech in America doesn’t include the Holocaust

Filed under: California, Holocaust — Tags: , , — furtherglory @ 12:50 pm

It is well known that America is one of the few countries that still has free speech with regard to Holocaust denial, but that does not extend to college campuses.

Auschwitz main camp

Auschwitz main camp

A news article, which you can read in full here, tells the story of a college student who got into trouble because he questioned the sacred 6 million.

The following quote is from the news article:

The elected student member of the community college system serving the Sacramento region is in hot water after questioning the number of Jews killed in World War II concentration camps and other controversial statements made during an interview with a college newspaper.

It is student trustee Cameron Weaver’s comments on the Holocaust in the Sept. 18 interview that have drawn the most ire and have started rumblings of a recall against him. Weaver was interviewed by the Current, the American River College student newspaper.

“Now I’m definitely not gonna go out and venture and say anything like ‘Oh, Holocaust didn’t happen.’ There are tons of people that make that argument. And from a really non-biased perspective, I completely disagree, but I also completely agree. What I mean when I say both is I don’t know the answer,” Weaver told his college paper.

Weaver, 26, also suggested that some percentage of the 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust actually died during earlier religious persecution. He did not deny that Jewish people were tortured.

Weaver earns a stipend of $8,500 for the one-year term. He was seated in June.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article37005681.html#storylink=cpy

39 Comments »

  1. It is all very simple — really!
    • The Truth is anti-Semitic!

    Thank Thor and Odin that we have internet — still…

    Comment by KolNidre — October 1, 2015 @ 9:53 am

    • Wow, Thor and Odin, that’s a blast from the past, like 1200 years ago blast from the past.

      Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 10:22 am

      • Yes, I like them two old grey Generals…
        We Scandinavians have the only clever religion there is… 😉

        Comment by KolNidre — October 1, 2015 @ 12:03 pm

  2. Here too we see how necessary a strong study of the historical background of those times of darkness is. What is that student study? How at that colledge history, geography and demography of Europe are taught? I would like to tell that unfortunate student that the figure of six milion victim is estimated; maybee we shall say “at least six milion” as rabbis and nazis anwer in different way the simple question “Who is a Jew?”. The rabbis consider religious affiliation to a comunity while the nazis considered racial belonging and hence also who had only Jewish parents or grand parents had been subject persecution,

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 1, 2015 @ 1:42 am

    • Quite funny to see you repeat on and on that all the Gentiles who haven’t swallowed all the Jewish BS that they should have integrated without questioning it, need to be re-educated, wolfie. To you, obscurantist Jews, there exist only 2 kinds of thoughts: the Jewish thoughts and the wrong evil thoughts. Funny to see Jewish ideological tyrants prone free speech when they need it and go crazy every time they hear things they dislike.😉

      Comment by hermie — October 1, 2015 @ 2:24 am

      • Because you are not not a US citizen you don’t understand how often this issue comes up and how often both sides of the political spectrum scream about free speech but only when it suits them. On most occasions it has nothing to do with either Jews or the Holocaust.
        http://m.news9.com/story.aspx?story=7983168&catId=112032
        The politician above was taped saying anti-gay statements. One of her arguments was that as a US citizen she has the right to say the things she did.
        She’s right, of course. She cannot be arrested for saying the things she did. However, it does not protect her from the negative reaction that her comments invoked.

        Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 7:39 am

      • Herr Hermie! I only pointed out that in colleges the historical background of WWI and WWII which includes the Holocaust ought to be studied. A proper study would permit a plain discussion on facts and figures based on statical data etc. My request applies so to USA as schools of many other nations and – You will laugh – to Rabbinical Studies too. For Nazis and Comunists exists only one thought: theirs; any other, considered lousy, had been – or will be – for Concentration and Death Camps. Instead of mocking me think how You could give a serious contribution to sound study of events occured. And my name is WOLF. Clear?

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 1, 2015 @ 8:41 am

        • At the university I went to only history majors really delved in depth on the background you describe, Wolf. I took several classes on European history as well as Middle Eastern and Far Eastern history. I don’t think this is an uncommon occurrence. While I think most people would benefit from a clearer understanding of a history I don’t think this is going to happen. This is why you get a misunderstanding of how things occurred, even from people who should know better.
          Furtherglory writes about Bill ‘O Reilly a great deal and enjoys him as a commentator. O’Reilly writes books on history and yet consistently makes mistakes that he shouldn’t make.
          And then of course we have stupid crap like this:
          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8664738/Glenn-Beck-likens-Obama-administration-to-the-Third-Reich.html

          Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 9:02 am

          • I have written about Glenn Beck several times on my blog, under the tag “Glenn Beck.” You can read all these blog posts at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/glenn-beck/

            Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2015 @ 9:33 am

          • HCW! Bill O Relly simply does not know what the HITLER JOUTH had been.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 1, 2015 @ 1:25 pm

            • I’ve read a couple of O ‘Reilly’s books, Wolf. They are decent but hardly something I would recommend. They are an OK introduction to history for those who don’t know too much about history.

              Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 7:48 pm

        • The Holocaust is taught in schools in America, starting in the 5th grade, although students are first introduced to the subject in kindergarten. By the time that American students are in college, they are experts on the Holocaust, although they know nothing about the other side of the Holocaust, as written by “Holocaust deniers” like me.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2015 @ 9:46 am

          • I thought you preferred the term “Revisionist.”

            Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 10:18 am

          • Furhterglory! Speak about the Holocaust in the Kindergarten is simply horrible and wrong. When asked to adress – in writng – pupils at Elemantary School of about 10 years I started recalling times of their gramdparents and parents were on the battlefield and a piece of bread was very precious in general and, especially for those in Ghettoes. Then I recalled my comrades of that time. At any rate I – myself a survivor – made effort to recall the things in a plain manner avoiding to hurt the sensibilty of children or speak about any evil.
            At higher classes the subject ought to be taught in the frame of General History considering conditions of Europe. How is History and Geography of Europe taught at those levels? Would be interested to see a sample of teaching material relating Holocaust; would this be possible?
            At any rate, I had been advised by doctors to avoid deliver speeches in any kind of gatherings, school classes included; the same as many survivors.
            Best..

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 3, 2015 @ 1:36 am

        • wolf: ” Instead of mocking me think how You could give a serious contribution to sound study of events occured.”

          Yeah, I’m sure that any European or American school would be very happy to let me teach the history of WW1 and WW2 to its students. I’d probably be shot on sight by the school principal himself when coming for lesson 2…😉

          HCW: “Because you are not not a US citizen you don’t understand how often this issue comes up and how often both sides of the political spectrum scream about free speech but only when it suits them.”

          I have a vague idea of it anyway. I’m often amazed by the very recurrent reductio ad hitlerum arguments I hear and read in American media. Things like “grammar nazi” and “eco-fascist” are a surreal sight from Europe.

          Comment by hermie — October 1, 2015 @ 6:01 pm

          • Herr Hermie! You ought to realize that many of Your comments indeed confirm more and more that the Holocaust events can be explained in the frame of WWI and WWII – two phases of the same conflict – which had been the suicide of Europe. So I feel – it seems strange – that we could cooperate. At the end of century XIX Germany saw the choice whether let persons emigrate to USA and South America or start a war to conquer a LIFE SPACE – LEBENSRAUM in a German ruled area from the Marne to the Memel, from the Baltic Sea to Black Sea and from Nord Sea to the Adria. Some one proposed to ship all the Jews of Poland – where German farmers had to be settled – to Palestine (the Ottoman Empire) or to the Island of Madagascar (then French colony): There had been also other conflict. And the Jews had been everywhere between hammer and ambos. Meanwhile the racist doctrine had been developped and so …. it came to the Holocaust during WWII.
            You can find my essays so on the Section of this site in English and on the site “shoa.de” in German – all published some years ago. If You wish at those essays my e.mail adress is available for possible personal contacts in view of a cooperation. I look forward. Best.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 2, 2015 @ 3:48 am

            • wolf: “Herr Hermie! You ought to realize that many of Your comments indeed confirm more and more that the Holocaust events can be explained in the frame of WWI and WWII”

              Do you mean that there was no way out but a general slaughter of Europe’s Jews? Or do you mean – assuming a belief in the ‘Holocaust’ for a minute – that Hitler did what had to be done?

              wolf: “Meanwhile the racist doctrine had been developped and so …. it came to the Holocaust during WWII.”

              True in a way. During the second half of the 19th centuty and the first half of the 20th century, racist Jewish nationalists called “Zionists” were revulsed by the idea that the Jews of Eastern Europe (the great demographic reservoir of Jewry at that time) would continue to migrate to Western countries and assimilate into the Gentile populations there. To Zionists, Jewish assimilation amounted to racial and cultural annihilation and suicide. They hated assimilationist Jews, claiming that Jews were not a race deserving to have its own country, above all. In their views, they had to act by diverting the Jewish emigration from the Jewish reservoir in Eastern Europe to a Jewish homeland in Palestine. They had to stop the large Jewish migration flows from Eastern Europe to Western countries, mainly the USA and Britain, where Eastern Jews (the only real Jews in Zionists’ views) would surely destroy their own Jewishness by behaving like Gentiles and by interbreeding with Goyim. They had to prevent Fievel (i.e. Steven Spielberg’s grandpa) from reaching the American haven where there were no cats (i.e. antisemites) and where he would lose his Jewishness through Americanization. The main impetus for Zionism wasn’t antisemitism as claimed. The main motive behind Zionism was a very strong Jewish racism and a very deep revulsion for Jewish crossbreeding. So Zionists fueled antisemitism as much as they could, and they finally came up with their Holohoax atrocity propaganda during WW2 in order to demonstrate the full scale of “the tragedy of Jewish [national] homelessness” (as they often put it) to the citizens and leaders of Britain (at that time barring the gates of Palestine with the MacDonald White Paper of May 1939) and America (pressuring Britain for the abrogation of the MacDonald White Paper). As the leaders of Britain had patently not understood in 1939 that Palestine grabbing was vital for Jewry (otherwise they wouldn’t have torpedoed it with their MacDonald White Paper), the Zionists couldn’t come up with anything smaller than the ‘Holocaust’ if they hoped to prevail after the war.

              Comment by hermie — October 2, 2015 @ 10:55 pm

              • I think that you have it exactly right, and you have explained it very well.

                Comment by furtherglory — October 3, 2015 @ 11:25 am

              • Herr Hermie! I am working on an article to place on the proper section of this site to rebuke Your above and other comments and show how things going worse and worse for decades Holocaust is closely linked to WWI, Versailles Peace Treaty and WWII. I will however take account of some of Your advises. Best.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 4, 2015 @ 12:47 pm

  3. Of course ‘Holocaust denial’ is not part of free speech. Doesn’t the location of the U.S. Holocaust Museum itself clearly demonstrate what the ‘Holocaust’ is in reality – i.e. America’s new state religion? The U.S. founding fathers’ concept of free speech was perhaps valid for a protestant country. But America is not a protestant country anymore. The Jewish tyranny now prevailing in America won’t let the challenge of its most crucial founding myth last any longer. U.S. Jewry has perverted the American concept of free speech. Jewry use the free speech thing to have a free hand to spread pornography and corrosive ideas in order to undermine traditional America. But U.S. Jewry labels anything detrimental to its own hegemonic interests as “hate speech” not being part of free speech. Basic parasitic strategy for survival and domination…

    Comment by hermie — October 1, 2015 @ 1:01 am

    • There are in fact several museums in Washington DC.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_Washington,_D.C.

      I haven’t been there since I was a child but I remember the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian includes a natural history museum and a space museum.

      Perhaps you can also make the argument because of these museums we are ruled by dinosaurs. Or perhaps we are ruled by space aliens.

      Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 7:29 am

      • When you were there as a child, you probably didn’t learn about the symbolism in the Museum building. I wrote a long description of the building in this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/punishment-for-a-romanian-holocaust-denier-a-trip-to-the-us-holocaust-museum-in-washington-dc/

        I also wrote these two blog posts about the USHMM:

        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/us-holocaust-memorial-museum/

        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/us-holocaust-memorial-museum-has-a-new-exhibit-on-the-lithuanian-jews/

        Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2015 @ 7:58 am

        • Sorry, I was not clear. When I was in Washington DC the Holocaust Museum was not built yet, I was there in 1981. I have no doubt that Washington has changed a great deal.

          Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 8:09 am

          • After I visited the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in the year 2000, I wrote about it on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/USHMM/Intro.html

            Follow the links at the bottom of the page, cited above. If you had visited the Museum as a child in 1993, the year that the Museum was built, you would have been taken to the children’s section, which is called Daniel’s Story: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/USHMM/DanielsStory.html

            Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2015 @ 8:34 am

            • Thanks, I want to get back to DC eventually.

              Comment by HCW — October 1, 2015 @ 8:37 am

              • On my website, I have a page which gives a detailed description of the exhibit for children, when I visited the museum in Washington, DC in 2000: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/USHMM/DanielsStory.html

                I think that readers of my blog should go to my page about the children’s exhibit, cited above. Daniel’s story illustrates how the Jews were living before the Holocaust. You can get an idea about how Wolf Murmelstein was living the good life before he was sent to Theresienstadt.

                If I had been sent to Theresienstadt as a child, I would have thought that I had died and gone to heaven. Wolf was sad because his life of luxury as a Jew was suddenly changed to a life of severely reduced luxury.

                Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2015 @ 9:16 am

                • furtherglory: “Wolf was sad because his life of luxury as a Jew was suddenly changed to a life of severely reduced luxury.”

                  Very funny wording, FG. You could have written “changed to a life of pre-1933 non-Jewish German” (probably exaggerated) as well.😉

                  Comment by hermie — October 2, 2015 @ 11:20 pm

                • Most people don’t understand the living conditions of people in America in 1933. Wolf was not living in the conditions of children in America in 1933, which was the start of the Depression that went on until World War II was over.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 3, 2015 @ 11:18 am

                • FURTHERGLORY: At Vienna first and from Jannuaryn 30 at Theresienstadt I had no life of luxury. Not even our worst enemies rose against my Father the accusation of personal profit. Clear once and for ever at last?

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 3, 2015 @ 9:05 am

                • FURHTERGLORY! At the take over of power in Austria by the Nazi Regime – March 13, 1938 – I had been not even three years old. What the hell of a life of luxury could I remember according You and the Shoah Business? By effect of the stupid Versailles Treaty – and foolness of President Wilson – in Austria life had not been easy for the normal persons.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 3, 2015 @ 9:16 am

            • Re the USHMM — I was in Wash DC not that long ago, and never for one moment did I entertain wasting, err spending, time there. I just had zero interest (not to mention all of the other attractions). In fact, I’ve always found it odd, maybe even somewhat objectionable, that a ‘Holocaust’ museum was built at such a location. I mean, is there anything comparable dedicated to American Indians in Wash DC? — thematically, that seems more appropriate to me than something largely dedicated to Jews.

              Comment by eah — October 1, 2015 @ 8:45 am

  4. The fact that we have free speech only means that we have the right to express our views without fear of imprisonment. It does not mean that it protects us from negative reactions. For example, I can be fired from a job if we say the wrong thing at our place of employment. I remember after 9-11 the company I worked for made an announcement that matters regarding Islam were not to be discussed during working hours under the penalty of termination. The company was worried about creating a hostile work environment for the Muslims that work there.
    That being said I disagree with the problems that the student is facing. If he was asked his opinion than he should be allowed to express himself. This is especially true for college campuses, higher education is meant not only to learn but to learn who you are and how to express yourself. If this is his opinion he should be allowed to express it. Others should then be allowed to refute him. Frankly, if the kid is confused about this then perhaps this is a good way for him to learn what happened.

    Comment by HCW — September 30, 2015 @ 1:20 pm

    • he questioned the sacred 6 million

      Don Heddesheimer — The First Holocaust — the 6m figure has been around for a long time — it didn’t just appear at the end of WWII — he should have known it by now.

      Comment by eah — September 30, 2015 @ 8:01 pm

    • HCW: “The fact that we have free speech only means that we have the right to express our views without fear of imprisonment. It does not mean that it protects us from negative reactions. For example, I can be fired from a job if we say the wrong thing at our place of employment.”

      That’s an argument I often use when talking about free speech with Americans. As very few people are willing to face complete social demolition for words they’ve said, American free speech is more or less an illusion. Political correctness and social pressure are as efficient as all the European laws against Holocaust revisionism to prevent such views from being told publicly by most people. European laws against Holocaust revisionism are used very rarely. Political correctness and social pressure are most of time enough to prevent Europeans from expressing such taboo views. The French revisionist Vincent Reynouard was examined by psychiatrists on several occasions when under arrest because all the French leaders fail to understand why a sane man would continue to say and write such things after going through so many persecutions. In their views, only a crazy man could lose several jobs, be imprisoned, be threatened to be killed, be compelled to go on the run and hide, lose his wife, be fined with sums of money he’ll never have, AND decide not to shut up in spite of all those things.

      Comment by hermie — October 1, 2015 @ 6:30 pm


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