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October 9, 2015

On this day in 1981, Holocaust deniers were defeated in court

Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: , , , , — furtherglory @ 8:49 am

The case of Moshe Mermelstein vs. a denial group wound up pulling the rug out from under the feet of Holocaust deniers.

This headline is on the news article which I quoted above:

A U.S. Court rules that the Jews were gassed in Auschwitz

The following quote is from the news article:

On October 9, 1981, Judge Thomas T. Johnson of the Superior Court of Los Angeles ruled once and for all that Jews had indeed been gassed to death in Auschwitz. It was the first time a court in the United States had ruled that the existence of the Holocaust was something that did not need to be proved when it arose in a court case.

Judge Johnson’s “judicial notice”, acknowledging the incontrovertibility of the fact that Jews had been gassed in Auschwitz, came in the case of survivor Mel Mermelstein. He had sued the Institute for Historical Review, a self-styled “revisionist” group, when it refused to pay him the sum of $50,000, which it had promised to pay for “verifiable proof that gas chambers for the purpose of killing human beings existed at or in Auschwitz.”

The notice didn’t mark the end of the judicial proceedings, but it virtually guaranteed that Mermelstein would win his case if and when it went to trial.

What qualifications did the judge have to rule on the existence of gas chambers in the Holocaust?  Had he gone to Auschwitz-Birkenau and examined the ruins of Gas Chamber No. 5, where the relatives of Mermelstein had been gassed?  No, of course not!  The judge was qualified to rule on this case because he was a judge.

Keep in mind that, in 19 countries today, you could wind up in prison for 5 years or more for denying the Judge’s ruling.

Gas chamber number 4 at Auschwitz was exactly like Gas Chamber 5.

Gas Chamber number 4 at Auschwitz was exactly like Gas Chamber 5

The photograph above shows the gas chamber building known as Crematorium IV, or Krema IV, taken in the Summer of 1943 after it became operational.

This building was blown up by Jewish inmates in a camp rebellion on October 7, 1944. The Krema IV gas chamber, disguised as a shower room, was located above ground in the wing of the building which is to the left in the picture. Note that the roof line of the gas chamber is lower than the roof of the main part of the building. Zyklon-B poison gas pellets were thrown into the fake shower room through windows on the outside wall of the gas chamber. (Don’t laugh — the Nazis were very advanced in scientific matters. They had the best engineers in the world.)

Sorry, but I can’t find a photo of Krema V, which was a mirror image of Krema IV.

A group of Jews pause for a photo as they head for the Krema V gas chamber

A group of Jews pause for a photo as they head for the Krema IV or Krema V gas chambers

In the far right hand corner of the photo immediately above, you can see a gate into the section of Auschwitz-Birkenau where the Sauna was located.

My 2007 photo of the gate into the section where Krema 5 was located

My 2007 photo of the gate into the section where Krema V was located (Click to enlarge)

The Sauna was the building where there was a shower room for the prisoners who were not gassed. Across the road, was the place where gas chambers No. 4 and 5 were located.

Are the Jews in the photo above headed to the shower room in the Sauna, or to a gas chamber?  It is impossible to determine their fate. Some of them look as if they are capable of working, but this would not have precluded gassing.  There was no rhyme nor reason for the gassing selections.

The Sauna was located across the road from gas chambers Number IV and V

The Sauna was located across the road from gas chambers Number IV and V

In a book entitled An Uncertain Hour, the author, Ted Morgan, wrote about a survivor named Otto Abramovic who stayed behind when the Auschwitz-Birkenau prisoners were evacuated on January 18, 1945. “He hid out in the area around Canada, which he knew well, and when the Russians arrived on January 27, he was there to greet them, for he spoke some Russian. He became their guide to scenic Canada, with its mountains and rivers – mountains of clothing, mountains of shoes, rivers of hair, rivers of gold teeth.” Other sources claim that the Nazis set fire to the buildings in “Canada” before they left.

At the end of October 1944, Heinrich Himmler had ordered gassing with Zyklon-B to be stopped, according to a guide book sold at Auschwitz; the last “selection” of prisoners was on October 30, 1944.

This decision, according to the guidebook, was prompted by the liberation of Majdanek and the discovery, by soldiers of the Soviet Union, of the incriminating evidence of 500 cans of Zyklon-B and three remaining gas chambers with blue stains on the walls, left by the gas. His decision was also influenced by the camp uprising when Crematorium IV was blown up by prisoners who used dynamite that had been smuggled in by women inmates who worked in factories outside the camp.

Crematorium V was blown up by the Nazis on Jan. 26, 1945, only the day before the 60th Army of the First Ukrainian Front arrived to liberate the remaining prisoners. Crematorium V was outside the barbed wire enclosure of the barracks and across an interior camp road from Crematorium IV.

96 Comments »

  1. Danke sehr für deinen hilfreichen Beitrag

    Comment by Torri Giddins — June 20, 2016 @ 10:40 am

    • What the shit does that mean?

      Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 10:46 am

      • You wrote: “What the shit does that mean?”

        “Danke sehr für deinen hilfreichen Beitrag” means “Thank you very much for your helpful blog.”

        In the future, if you want to translate another language into English, go to the “google translate” website.

        Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 11:53 am

        • Hey I just figured this person can read English,so I figure the individual in question should be able to write English . Then again that’s just the way I see it. Pretty much spoke here. If I go to a Spanish speaking website,I better know Spanish

          Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 12:19 pm

          • I was very pleased that someone wrote a comment in German. They assumed that I could read and understand German. I interpreted that as a compliment to me. Yes, I know a little German. Enough to get by.

            When I was traveling in Germany, the German people seemed to be very pleased when I spoke a few words in German.

            Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 12:26 pm

            • Right on ! Someone gave you a compliment then. Maybe in the future I can find a Dink website. I’m like you. I can speak a little Vietnamese where you speak a bit German

              Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 12:30 pm

  2. Discussing this post if feel necessary to point out the following distinction: CONCENTRATION CAMPS had been established from the beginning of the Nazi rule: the first one had been Dachau. The DEATH CAMPS had been established in Poland for a better secrecy and logistic reasons. The GHETTOES had been established in 1939-40 in order to kill through deseases, forced labor and starvation. When this method seemed not fast enough the Gettoes turned to be TRANSIT CAMPS as inmates still alive had been sent to the DEATH CAMPS to be gassed or to FORCED LABOR CAMPS where the harsh conditions would have done the killing; due to the Liberation there had been a certain number of survivors. So TREBLINKA, SOBIBOR; MAYDANEK; CHELMO; had been DEATH CAMPS and never Transit Camps, AUSCHWITZ, STUTTHOF and some others had been so DEATH CAMPS as Forced Labor Camps.
    I mean that this distinction should be available at any Shoah Business Temple avoiding confusion.

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 11, 2015 @ 11:02 pm

    • I’d like to add something, Wolf. A lot of this depended on available food supplies versus the need for labor. When food supplies were a problem the Jewish inmates were more vulnerable for deportation, when the need for labor dominated then more were kept alive.

      Comment by HCW — October 12, 2015 @ 6:56 am

  3. the barbed wire enclosure of the barracks

    There were only see-through fences at Auschwitz-Birkenau — any prisoner outside a barracks could see what went on around the gas chambers/crematoria — all of that was visible from the soccer field as well (David Cole makes this point in his video).

    Since the end of 1942 his verbal lectures were no longer documented in shorthand, but recorded via phonograph onto wax master plates. These recordings were then typed up by SS-Untersturmführer Werner Alfred Wenn, who corrected obvious grammatical errors and supplemented missing words. Himmler then added his own handwritten corrections, and the thus authorised version was copied up via typewriter in large characters and then filed away…Of Himmler’s three-hour speech of 4 October,1943, 115 pages of the final typewritten edition (one page was lost) were discovered among SS files and submitted to the Nuremberg Trials as document 1919-PS. On day 23 of the hearing, a passage (which however did not concern the Holocaust) was read out. A live recording of this speech survives,…

    Very careless of the Nazis — who were so obsessed with keeping the ‘Final Solution’ secret — to record and make transcripts of Himmler’s speeches — including one where he supposedly talked about ‘exterminating’ the Jews.

    Comment by eah — October 11, 2015 @ 1:12 pm

    • This wasn’t meant for public consumption. The speech was never broadcast, only recorded for internal use.

      Comment by HCW — October 11, 2015 @ 1:28 pm

  4. I don’t recall the video that you said I said the death set Treblinka was 1.3 million I would never have said that there must be an issue there for some reason there were no huge deaths in any of the camps at the most you have probably 350-500000 people that died in all the cans from all causes and half of them might Jew. You say the joke is on me actually the joke is on you. It’s Holocaust Fantasyland when I talk to people like you.

    Comment by jrizoli — October 10, 2015 @ 6:47 am

    • To whom are you replying?

      Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 6:49 am

    • If you don’t know then maybe you need someone to keep track. You definitely need someone to edit. Less is more, Mr. Rizoli.

      Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 8:37 am

    • To Mr. Rizoli:
      I went back to your video and watched it again.
      The audio drops at the beginning so I watched it again with the closed captioning on. The closed captioning picked up the the names of Sobibor and Belzec so you did, in fact, include all three camps for the death toll.
      My apologies. When I watched it yesterday the audio dropped and I did not hear the other two camps mentioned. This was my mea culpa. You were right to include all three camps for the death toll. The odd computer sounding voice was hard to hear.

      Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 9:25 am

  5. I heard someone say hitler signed his name to some official document. They said that was the last time he put his John Hancock on anything. What did he sign off on?

    Comment by tim — October 9, 2015 @ 10:45 pm

    • The Action T-4 Program authorizing the Euthanasia Program.

      Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 8:38 am

  6. How long has this been going on for? The topic of wether the holocaust happened or not. I’m guessing this didn’t start the minute the war ended. Is there any one specific person that can be credited with bringing up the question of wether the holocaust is valid or not.

    Comment by tim — October 9, 2015 @ 10:42 pm

      • I went to your first link — the USHMM website. They quote one of Himmler’s speeches which allegedly proves the Holocaust. As usual, Himmler’s speech is cut off.

        I have a page on my website which gives the full quote from Himmler’s speech: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/HimmlerSpeeches.html

        Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 9:50 am

        • Thank you but I’m not sure I see the point. Your link provides the full text of the speech but does not dispute that Himmler was talking about the extermination of the Jews. CODOH has a translation that changes the word from extermination to extirpation:
          http://codoh.com/library/document/891/

          However here are definitions of that word:
          http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/extirpation
          http://i.word.com/idictionary/extirpate

          Which basically means the same thing.

          Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 11:33 am

          • THE GERMAN WORD “AUSROTTEN” MEANS ONLY “TO EXTERMINATE” WHEN REFERED TO HUMAN BEINGS. When refering to plants it can be translated by “to root out”. At CODOH they manage not to receive objections.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 10, 2015 @ 12:57 pm

            • I don’t really understand the controversy over the word itself, Himmler is obviously talking about extermination.

              Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 2:14 pm

              • HCW! it is to point out that Himmlers delivered that speech at a gathering of SS Generals, obviously all ot them involved in the various extermination actions. Furthermore, HIimmler mentioned also the female auxiliaries of the SS – Helferinen – about which we debated on other posts on this site. Best.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 11, 2015 @ 12:37 am

                • Albert Speer also attended Posen. He stated later that he left before Himmler’s speech so he never learned about the massacre of the Jews. Before he died he admitted that he heard the speech and understood what it meant. Speer was always an odd case, he got off lightly at Nuremberg even though he made liberal use of the Nazi forced labor program.

                  Comment by HCW — October 11, 2015 @ 1:24 am

                • I wrote about Albert Speer on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/did-albert-speer-really-design-the-nazi-gas-chambers/

                  Albert Speer’s book was the first book that I read when I began studying the Holocaust.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 10:07 am

                • How come Speer got off with basically a slap on the wrist? Compared with the other top dogs in the company,that’s what it seemed like to me. Okay. He didn’t stay for the speech. Is he saying cause he did not stay for it, that he was basically ,”deaf,dumb and blind as to what was going on?”

                  Comment by Tim — October 16, 2015 @ 10:41 pm

                • Tim….. why should any of the Germans on trial been given death sentences, they weren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. So you think that Speer should be prosecuted for what he did what did he do wrong. The heavy sentences were given to the Germans to shut them up so the truth wouldn’t come out in the end but in regards to their actions during the war they didn’t do anything wrong.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 12:29 pm

                • Mine are observations . I question what don’t seem to jive (none of this does). What about that ol boy Pieper? What he and his men did was murder. Nothing other units from other countries weren’t doing. They had the hardon from hell for him. He pulled 12 years,yet people that just only had knowledge,got strung up. Yes I heard you say to keep them silent. This shits worse than damn games,little school girls play. These people were supposed to hand Justice . I know military court. I’ve had a little experience with those when I got locked up at the LBJ resort in long binh. Still any courts are hard to get sentences reduced or turned over. Pieper goes from death row to 12 years? Okay. Maybe Herman G knew what was going down. I wasn’t there,I don’t know. So he gets death row for supposedly being one of the big dogs in this whole mess and Pieper gets death row,but later sentence is commuted to a dime plus 2 and his happy ass is out. How f–ked up is that? That’s my point I’m trying to make here. This is damn near good ol boy Justice. I don’t know what kinda case they put on Herman,but his was less serious than Piepers. Justice is blind? BS! They took the blindfold off her. Like I said,I’m taking an objective view here. I’m not siding with nobody. All the facts that may or may not pertain to this case are blurred . 70 plus years and everyone and their dog,have rewritten the facts. We’ve got experts on both sides that people seem to worship like Gods. I’ve seen in life,experts are the worst. Once someone takes their view,they seem to lose all ability to think for themselves. I’d rather read all the shit on my own and then come to a conclusion. A lot of people on both sides get played falsely,because the experts interpret the facts the way they want them. I’m guessing Peiper didn’t kill any Jews,so he was able to cheat the hangman. These people that sat on the bench and handed down sentences,are starting to look like puppets.

                  Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 1:56 pm

                • The first book on history that I read was the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. As I’ve gotten older I now see the flaws in it but it is still a classic.

                  Comment by HCW — October 11, 2015 @ 12:43 pm

              • Go to Google translate https://translate.google.com/#en/de/extermination where you will learn that the Englsish word “extermination” is Ausrottung in German. Ausrottung, translated into English means to “root out” or to “get rid of.” It does not mean “to kill.” Himmler was talking about getting rid of the Jews by transporting them out of Germany, not gassing them with Zyklon-B, the way that you get rid of lice.

                Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 8:02 am

                • Furtherglory! “Ausrotten” means “to exterminate”: “Ausrodden” means to root out; “Loswerden” means “to get rid of”. “Entlausen” means “to get rid of lice” or “free of lice” something or some one. Himmler wanted to exterminate the Jews but also to root them out in order to prevent for all following times their revival. German is my first language, however I checked a qualified dictionary – more than Google translator – before answering. Furhtermore I know a bit better the Nazi aims then anyone in USA. At a meeting of SS Generals Himmer spoke plain German, certainly not that of Goethe or Schiler.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 11, 2015 @ 10:24 am

                • On my website, I quoted the English translation of Himmler’s speech at Poznan:

                  Begin quote: “I am thinking now of the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that’s easy to say: “The Jewish people will be exterminated” , says every Party comrade, “that’s quite clear, it’s in our program: elimination of the Jews, extermination ; that’s what we’re doing.” End quote

                  Why did Himmler include the word evacuation ?

                  Did he mean that some of the Jews would be evacuated from Germany, but others would be killed?

                  On this blog post, I wrote about Treblinka being a TRANSIT CAMP: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/the-trains-that-traveled-west-to-treblinka/

                  Some of the trains traveled WEST to Treblinka because it was a TRANSIT camp, not a place to kill the Jews.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 10:33 am

                • Why include the word extermination if this was only about evacuation?

                  Comment by HCW — October 11, 2015 @ 11:57 am

                • Furtherglory, HCW. German is my first language and I know the meaning of AUSROTTEN and AUSRODDEN. Before being killed in the Death Camps the Jews had been EVACUATED from their home towns toward East to be EXTERMINATED in a way to be also ESTIRPATED in order to prevent any Jeiwsh revival. Furthermore, I could not care less about Google Dictionary; better to look in a printed one.
                  In 1938 at Vienna Benjamin Murmelstein realized the need “to think with their brain” when dealing with Eichmann & C. So he could manage in 3 years – from 1938 to 1941 – the emigration of about 120.000 – onehundredtwentythousand – Jews from Vienna and later the survival of the Theresienstadt Ghetto – 17500 inmates and many coming in last days with the Deat Marches the International Red Cross could direct there.
                  In historical debates – like on this site – any explaination must be consistent with the Nazi doctrine of racist hatred and German Aryan supremacy.
                  Furtherglory! For a Nazi the only oath to respect had been (and still is) that of obbedience to THE FUEHRER; certainly not that in courts. In USA You are used to hear even the defendant as witness under oath and credit his statements. This is wrong, specially in cases of Nazis. It had been a damned error that at the Nuerenberg Trial the USA rules had been followed.
                  The THIRD REICH WAR NICHT DAS LAND DER DICHTER UND DER DENKER SONDER DAS DER RICHTER UND DER HENKER – Not the home of poets and thinkers rather that of Judges and hangmen. So expressed by an SS at Buchenwald, quoted by Kogon who too had to realize that.
                  Best.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 12, 2015 @ 7:53 am

                • Wolf, as you are a native German speaker I will defer to you.
                  It’s also obvious what Himmler was talking about. All this nitpicking over the words he used makes no difference.

                  Comment by HCW — October 12, 2015 @ 8:27 am

            • wolf: “THE GERMAN WORD “AUSROTTEN” MEANS ONLY “TO EXTERMINATE” WHEN REFERED TO HUMAN BEINGS.”

              And did the word “exterminate” imply mass murder, and mass murder only, in German at that time?

              In October 1940, the French newspaper L’Appel published an article entitled “Faut-il exterminer les juifs” (Should we exterminate the Jews?) dealing with territorial eviction only (http://phdnm.org/uploads/3/0/0/1/3001973/appel_ext_juifs_titre.jpg). Mass murder was mentioned or implied nowhere in that article. However today no French-speaking people would understand the words “exterminer les juifs” as meaning anything but mass murder. In 1940, the French word “exterminer” had visibly more meanings than it has today, and one of those meanings was closer to the etymology of the word (ex: out; terminus: border). What makes you think that a similar thing didn’t take place in the German language too?

              Even anti-revisionist historians imply that the word “ausrottung” had non-genocidal meanings such as “eliminate” in those days:

              [quote]He thought the Nazi leadership capable of committing any conceivable crime or folly. But the secret Nazi plans for Auschwitz and other camps that became known to a few people during the last week of July were so horrendous that even [Eduard] Schulte, who in his circle of close friends would refer to Hitler as “that madman,” hesitated for a moment. Surely, they would not dare . . .

              The news Schulte learned shed new and ghastly light on the true fate of the Jews. He had listened, like everyone else, to the speeches in which Hitler had promised that he would eliminate (ausrotten) European Jewry. But the term “elimination” (ausrottung) could be interpreted in various ways. It could mean, for instance, resettling them in Madagascar, as some had proposed. Almost no one, not even a committed anti-Nazi like Schulte, believed that “elimination” should be understood literally.[end quote] (http://revblog.codoh.com/2009/06/the-origins-of-%E2%80%9Cthe-holocaust%E2%80%9D-or-%E2%80%9Chow-the-holocaust-was-born%E2%80%9D-2/)

              In English too, the word “exterminate” had non-sinister meanings in those days. For instance, in September 1933, an article in the Pittsburg Press said that the Nazi policies were “designed to exterminate Jews as a controlling influence in the Reich”.

              Anyway, Himmler’s Posen speech is quite useless because Hitler talked about the ‘ausrottung’ of European Jewry on several occasions in public speeches.

              Comment by hermie — October 12, 2015 @ 5:59 am

              • Herr Hermie! i take You are German and so certainly know that in that context the words AUSSCHALTEN meaning TO CUT OUT or TO ELIMINATE and AUSSCHLIESSEN in the meanimg TO EXLUDE had been proper. I am afraid the United Press or The Pitsburg Press offices translated in wrong way.

                Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 12, 2015 @ 9:19 am

                • wolf: ” i take You are German”

                  I’m not.

                  wolf: “so certainly know that in that context the words AUSSCHALTEN meaning TO CUT OUT or TO ELIMINATE and AUSSCHLIESSEN in the meanimg TO EXLUDE had been proper”

                  I didn’t request a lesson on the German language of today. I was talking about the German language of those days. Languages evolve through time. Some new words appear. Some old words disappear. Some new meanings appear. And some old meanings disappear. It just goes that way. My point was that the word “exterminate” had more meanings in the early 20th century than it has today, that in various languages.

                  Hitler had already used the words “ausrotten/ausrottung” and “vernichten/vernichtung” in public speeches dealing with Jewry on several occasions when Eduard Schulte allegedly understood those words as mass murder. If those words had meant mass murder and mass murder only, Schulte, any German-speaking people and the entire world would have been aware of that alleged policy of mass murder years bebore it was supposedly revealed by some Zionists. The usual exterminationist allegation about the word “ausrotten” makes any wartime intelligence about the alleged genocide quite useless and superfluous.

                  wolf: “I am afraid the United Press or The Pitsburg Press offices translated in wrong way.”

                  No translation. Just an accurate depiction of the Nazi policy toward Jewry in those days. Or perhaps you’ll claim the Nazis were mass murdering Jews in September 1933???

                  I posted the Pittsburg Press article above only to illustrate the fact that the word “exterminate” had non-genocidal meanings in English too.

                  Comment by hermie — October 12, 2015 @ 7:41 pm

                • Herr Hermie! To the notice printed in PITSBURG PRESS: More than sisty years ago I read the memories of Schacht who says to have submitted to Hitler the request to leave Jews running business. But I think that Schacht never could have expressed the opinion reported in a pubblic statement in the political conditions of 1933 in Germany.I think that is an example how inaccurate USA press reports too ofter are.
                  Furhtermore You are supposed to know that alread in Party Program of 1925 and then in that of 1927 the NSDAP declared to aim the exclusion Jews from Germay daily life. From exclusion to expulsion to extermination to extirpation is chain.
                  At any rate I will look better on this matter for historical research. I think You can give a contribution instead of mocking me or arguing against Zionism.
                  Best-.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 12:33 am

                • wolf: “Herr Hermie! To the notice printed in PITSBURG PRESS: I think that is an example how inaccurate USA press reports too ofter are.”

                  What is inaccurate in the Pittsburg Press article posted above? Weren’t the Nazis indeed exterminating Jews as a controlling influence in the Reich in 1933, when that article was published?

                  The US press reports were indeed inaccurate most of time. But not the way you imply they were. The US press reports were inaccurate because they were full of Zionist atrocity propaganda intended to demonstrate the alleged tragic nature of Jewish national homelessness. Especially true when the British government threatened to close the gates of Palestine because of the Arab riots there. The Zionists claimed to crush the alleged tragedy of Jewish national homelessness. So they crucially needed to paint a tragic picture of Jewish life at some places. That’s where their numerous propaganda organs were used. That’s where the inaccurate press reports were very useful to them…

                  wolf: “From exclusion to expulsion to extermination to extirpation is chain.”

                  Your own chain. Your own conclusion. Were the American WASPs exterminating the Negroes at the moment when the Black people were excluded from social life in the United States? Was the Czar exterminating the Jews of Russia when the latter were excluded from most Russian lands and held in the Pale of Settlement of Eastern Europe? Of course not…

                  Comment by hermie — October 16, 2015 @ 8:42 am

                • Herr Hermie! 1.The Negroes had been esploited first in slavery than – after 1865 and until about 1970 – by denying their civil rights in many states of the Union..2.In 1927 the NSDAP program asked for the EXCLUSION. Once on power the EXPROPRIATION followed, Then came the EXPULSION or though imposed EMIGRATION or, later, by EVACUASTION-Deportation on places for EXTERMINATION or directly by EXECUTION – Gas Chambers, mass shootings, etc. – or indirectly by EXPLOITATION in Forced Labor with the final aim of EXTIRPATION preventing any possible revival. 3. I think that in 1933 as Minister for Economy Schacht had been cautious in any statement and so the notice on PITTSBURG PRESS translated in not accurate way what he actually said; will look in my books. At any rate, have a nice weekend.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 16, 2015 @ 12:41 pm

                • wolf: “1.The Negroes had been esploited first in slavery than – after 1865 and until about 1970 – by denying their civil rights in many states of the Union..”

                  And they were never mass murdered in spite of that. You’ve debunked your own extermination chain without my help. Thanks for corroborating my point.

                  wolf: “2.In 1927 the NSDAP program asked for the EXCLUSION. Once on power the EXPROPRIATION followed, Then came the EXPULSION or though imposed EMIGRATION or, later, by EVACUASTION-Deportation on places for EXTERMINATION or directly by EXECUTION – Gas Chambers, mass shootings, etc. – or indirectly by EXPLOITATION in Forced Labor with the final aim of EXTIRPATION preventing any possible revival.”

                  The last stage of your extermination chain is an empty shell and you know it.

                  wolf: “so the notice on PITTSBURG PRESS translated in not accurate way what he actually said”

                  Did you see quotation marks somewhere? As I’ve already said earlier, that wasn’t a translation of words told by Schacht or anybody else. That was just an accurate analysis of the Nazi anti-Jewish policies in those days by an American journalist very probably writing in his own first language. (Will you try to claim that you know the English language of the 1930’s better than an American journalist of the 1930’s?!?) So my point remains valid: the word “exterminate” used to have non-genocidal meanings in English too, whether you like it or not.

                  wolf: “At any rate, have a nice weekend.”

                  You too.

                  Comment by hermie — October 17, 2015 @ 7:31 am

                • I am listening to the TV program “The Rifleman” as I am writing this. On this show, the characters speak English as it was spoken in America in the early days. I grew up in the 1930ies when English was spoken differently than it is spoken by young people today. You are correct that English was quite different in the 1930ies in America. Besides that, spoken English in America was quite different from the English used in newspapers.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 17, 2015 @ 7:43 am

                • furtherglory: ” I grew up in the 1930ies when English was spoken differently than it is spoken by young people today. You are correct that English was quite different in the 1930ies in America.”

                  That’s probably true for most (if not all) languages. My first language is French and I remember seeing my grandfather have a hard time at every Christmas, trying to understand what his own half-illiterate grandchildren were telling. Almost looked like two different cultures trying to communicate…

                  Comment by hermie — October 20, 2015 @ 4:18 am

          • I have a page on Himmler’s speeches on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/HimmlerSpeeches.html

            From these speeches, I think that it is clear that Himmler was talking about getting rid of the Jews, not murdering them.

            Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 8:12 am

            • Furtherglory! At summer 1941 the only possible way to get rid of the Jews had been their extermination. So we can understand the meaning of the Goering letter July 31 1941 to Heydrich and also the Himmler speech at Posen at October 4 1943 when when almost all the Jews of Poland, Baltic zone, Belarus, Ucraina, Slovachia, Greece, had been exterminated – ausgerottet – aiming to extirpate – ausrodden – any roots to prevent revival.

              Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 11, 2015 @ 1:04 pm

              • the Goering letter July 31 1941 to Heydrich

                Göring uses the phrase “Auswanderung oder Evakuierung” in his letter. That is all he says re specific measures. That is the only thing to “understand” about his letter.

                Comment by eah — October 12, 2015 @ 1:36 pm

                • I actually agree with you. I don’t think the letter Goering wrote authorized killing, I think it simply turned over responsibility for the Jews to the SS.

                  Comment by HCW — October 12, 2015 @ 4:08 pm

                • Goering refers to measures in order to solve the Jewish Question in the area under German power leaving to Heydrich the decisions of how to carry out that “task”.

                  Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 12:38 am

        • Why would Himmler say that no one should speak of it in public? The Germans themselves knew that Jews were being sent to the East, they saw the transports leaving. Germans helped themselves to Jewish possessions after they left. The transports themselves were hardly secret in any country. Himmler also talked about bodies and what everyone knew what this meant. He also talked about the need to kill the children to prevent future vengeance.

          It seems to me you are trying too hard to force this speech into meaning something that it is not.

          You’ve talked about the remoteness of Treblinka. The only reason to do this is to keep it’s purpose secret, the same with the other camps.

          Comment by HCW — October 11, 2015 @ 11:55 am

    • Tim: ” Is there any one specific person that can be credited with bringing up the question of wether the holocaust is valid or not.”

      One could answer that the former concentration camp inmate Paul Rassinier can be credited for that. But I would answer that the Nazis should be credited for that. In June 1942, a British newspaper (The London Daily Telegraph) claimed for the 1st time that the Nazis had murdered 700,000 Jews in German-occupied Poland, mainly with alleged ‘gas vans’ at Chelmno. On July 13, 1942, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) reported that “the German Government today denied that 700,000 Jews have been executed by the German administration in Poland.” And on July 27, 1945, prior to the beginning of the Nuremberg ‘trials’, the JTA reported: “A report from the place where major German war criminals are now confined discloses that all of them have denied that the Nazis had any plans to exterminate the Jews of Europe.”

      Comment by hermie — October 10, 2015 @ 9:23 pm

      • Herr Hermie! In wich Concentration Camp had Rasienier been inmate? Indeed the Death Camps with the Gas Chambers were all in Poland. Best-

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 11, 2015 @ 10:27 am

        • Paul Rassinier was an inmate at Buchenwald. He became the world’s first Holocaust denier when he claimed that there were no gas chambers at Buchenwald.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 10:40 am

          • And Buchenwald had been a Concentration Camp, not a Death Camp.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 9:25 am

        • You are correct that the six “death camps” were in Poland. Chelmno was the first “death camp.” I blogged about Chelmno on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/chelmno-the-little-known-death-camp/

          Sorry, but I don’t believe that Chelmno was a “death camp.” I give my reasons for thinking this on the blog post cited above.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 11, 2015 @ 10:53 am

        • wolf: “Herr Hermie! In wich Concentration Camp had Rasienier been inmate?”

          Dora and Buchenwald.

          Comment by hermie — October 12, 2015 @ 6:02 am

          • Herr Hermie! Dora and Buchenwald had been cruel Concentration Camps and not Death Camps.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 11:03 am

            • I know that Dora and Buchenwald were not ‘death camps’ in today’s Holo-narrative, wolfie. But Buchenwald – with its alleged human skin lampshades, its ‘Nazi’ Jivaro shrunken heads, and all kinds of ridiculous horror stories conceived by Albert G. Rosenberg and other guys of the U.S. Psychological Warfare Division (SHAEF’s PWD) – was the capital of the Allied Horror Circus in 1945 and the following decades. That’s what made Rassinier become suspicious about Allied assertions.

              Moreover Buchenwald was still labelled a ‘death camp’ in Western newspapers and TV shows until the 1980’s, if not later. There are many newspaper archives available on the internet now. You can easily check what I’m saying if you want to know…

              Comment by hermie — October 17, 2015 @ 8:06 pm

            • Quite funny debate with a guy who was 9 years old at the end of WW2 and was never sent to one of the six alleged Nazi ‘death camps’ in Poland but claims to know that there were giant homicidal gas chambers at those camps nevertheless. What makes Rassinier incompetent to talk about the ‘Holocaust’ as you imply while any word told by the 9-year-old Theresienstadt Ghetto Boy should be taken at face value? I think my answer to any of your words about anything other than the Theresienstadt ghetto, will be “You were not there!!” from now…

              Comment by hermie — October 17, 2015 @ 8:20 pm

  7. Interesting observation for you furtherglory. When you use the Google German site you will find that your site has undergone a rather Stasi like disappearance.
    https://www.google.de/
    The Stasi German government is rather pathetic don’t you think?

    Comment by peter — October 9, 2015 @ 2:10 pm

    • If you use MSFT’s search engine bing.com and enter “furtherglory” as the search term, this site shows up as the first result.

      Comment by eah — October 12, 2015 @ 1:55 pm

  8. Mel Mermelstein did the wrong thing asking any sum for offering proof of the Gas Chambers at Auschwitz. On the other hand the judge had to respect the Nuerenberg War Crime verdict so as that of the AUSCHWITZ TRIAL – Auschwitz Prozess – in Germany.
    Furthermore Himmler ordered the stop of Gas Chambers having Swiss Past President Jean Marie Musy approdched him mentioning a possible deal with Allied Powers interested to have the SS fighting on their side against URSS and ready to offer a personal chance. The last gassing at October 30 might have been that of the persons who left Theresienstadt with the last transport.
    About twenty years ago David Irwing misspelled thr name accusing Benjamin Murmelstein for having pressed an Insurannce Company for a large amount; only several months later the David Irving organization aknoleedged the error while that insurrance company did not answer any request for information.

    Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 9, 2015 @ 11:50 am

    • You are correct that the gas chambers were included in the verdict of the Nuremberg IMT. So it was proved in a court of law that gas chambers were used by the Nazis to kill the Jews.

      I explained all this on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/proof-of-the-nazi-gas-chambers-given-at-the-nuremberg-imt-on-nov-29-1945/

      Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 6:33 am

      • Furtherglory. About this matter any judge ought to consider also the verdicts of German courts like that of the Auschwitz trial or that against Stangle for his action at Sobibor and Treblinka. In order to reach a better understanding of events both divisions of the SHOAH BUSINESS should be shut down. By the way. Mr Mel Mermelstein is a survivor or only a relative of victims? Best.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 10, 2015 @ 9:53 am

    • Wolf, the IHR opened themselves up to this when they offered up the reward. They have only themselves to blame.

      Comment by HCW — October 12, 2015 @ 4:12 pm

      • HCW! I mean that the behaviour of Mel Mermelstein had been unworthy. Clearly the IHR offer of a financial reward had been a provocation.

        Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 9:29 am

        • This is why I have no sympathy for them. Their advertisement deliberately challenged survivors to come forward. Sadly, this award did not break IHR financially.

          Comment by HCW — October 13, 2015 @ 9:46 am

          • HCW: I mean that it is unworthy for a survivor to ask for such a financial reward offered by such a gang. Again,, I wish Mel Mermelstein to stay in the deepest hell. By this case IHR gained the notoriety it does not deserve.

            Comment by Wolf MURNELSTEIN — October 13, 2015 @ 11:11 am

            • Mermelstein attempted to sue IHR again and lost, he pushed too hard.
              I don’t really have an opinion about him one way or another, as you are a Jewish survivor I understand your feelings in this matter.

              Comment by HCW — October 13, 2015 @ 8:17 pm

  9. Are you kidding me? Show me a real live homicidal gas chamber and how it worked with all the trimmings.
    Where is the document from Himmler that you are referring to, considering that the homicidal gassings never began.
    Just more B/S that the lemmings are forced to believe.

    Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2015 @ 10:32 am

    • Mr. Rizoli, I posted a critical response to one of your videos on the previous post. Feel free to answer.

      Comment by HCW — October 9, 2015 @ 11:10 am

    • The “document from Himmler” was quoted in a guidebook which I purchased at Auschwitz in 1998. I don’t think that the actual document still exists.

      Keep in mind that the clothing of the prisoners was “gassed” with Zyklon-B to kill the lice that spreads typhus. Himmler might have ordered the gassing of the clothing to stop.

      Comment by furtherglory — October 9, 2015 @ 11:33 am

      • With regard to Himmler’ s order to stop the gassing of Jews in October 1944 what forensic hard evidence do we have ? Is there a paper trail?

        Comment by peter — October 9, 2015 @ 2:05 pm

        • Hard to prove a negative……
          There were NO homicidal gas chambers….plenty of fumigation chambers. I’m sure billions of lice were killed.

          Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2015 @ 2:11 pm

          • Well, you certainly know a lot about not being able to prove anything.

            Comment by HCW — October 9, 2015 @ 2:43 pm

            • And what exactly do I have to prove? You’re the one that has to prove this hoax happened I don’t have to prove anything that’s all I know is it didn’t happen

              Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2015 @ 2:46 pm

              • If you expect anyone to take you seriously you need to come up with proof the Holocaust did not happen or people will think you are a joke. Frankly, anyone who’s seen your videos will be inclined to think that anyway.
                Honestly, do you research anything?
                On your video for Treblinka, you put the death toll at 1.3 million.
                Wrong.
                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_extermination_camp
                http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Treblinka.html
                http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/treblinka.html

                You used the total estimated death toll for each camps:
                http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/index.html

                Seriously, that’s just embarrassing.

                Maybe if you spent less time making your videos and more time researching the subject matter you could learn to refute things.
                I enjoy watching them but you are not doing your fellow deniers any favors.

                I’ll have more to come when I can get a chance to peruse your videos in more detail.

                Comment by HCW — October 9, 2015 @ 9:36 pm

                • Seriously? Proving a negative ? You have the burden of proof.

                  Really HCW, grasping at straws now. Weakest argument you’ve put up. Is there any circumcised dick you won’t suck?

                  Comment by Schlageter — October 10, 2015 @ 3:48 am

                • All the resources that you have provided are Jewish sources. There are two sides to everything. After studying Treblinka extensively, I have come to the conclusion that Treblinka was a transit camp.

                  I wrote about Treblinka being a transit camp on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/was-treblinka-really-a-transit-camp/

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 7:02 am

                • Yes I agree Treblinka and the other camps around it were transit camp simple as that but they want you to think otherwise because they have to try to make the Six Million figure work which they can’t so they grasping for straws.

                  Comment by jrizoli — October 10, 2015 @ 8:03 am

                • I wrote about Treblinka on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Treblinka/introduction.html

                  In 1998, at the time that I wrote the web page, cited above, I was not yet a Holocaust denier, but I was already becoming a Holocaust doubter. I think that even a blind person would become a Holocaust denier after a visit to Treblinka.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 8:32 am

                • Wikipedia is not a Jewish source, Furtherglory. You use it frequently. Neither is death camps.org.
                  http://www.britannica.com/place/Treblinka

                  Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 8:53 am

                • I went to the Dachau page on Wikipedia just now. I could not read it because I glanced over at the old black and white photo at the top of the page, and I was totaled out, once again, by a misleading caption.

                  The caption on the photo says: “American troops guarding the main entrance to Dachau just after liberation, 1945”

                  This photo does NOT show the “main entrance” to the Dachau camp. It shows one of the entrances into the whole Dachau complex which included an SS camp. I have the same photo on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/SScamp/Gates.html

                  The caption on the photo says: “American troops guarding the main entrance to Dachau just after liberation, 1945”

                  The caption should say that this is the southwest gate into the SS camp at Dachau.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 9:26 am

                • Mr. Schlageter:
                  No, I do not have the burden of proof, Mr. Rizoli does. He is the one making the assertion that the Holocaust did not happen.
                  If you are the one making the argument than the burden of proof falls to you. Mr. Rizoli has a tendency to simply make proclamations but not provide any proof of what he is saying. When I say something I give links or the titles of books and their authors so that I can be fact checked.
                  You would realize this if you spent less time having sex with your Hitler blow up doll.

                  Comment by HCW — October 10, 2015 @ 9:01 am

                • HCW: “You would realize this if you spent less time having sex with your Hitler blow up doll.”

                  Quite telling about your own evidential standards. The laughable “Hitler is the inventor of blow up dolls” canard is ‘proven’ by nothing but baseless assertions. And as the factory allegedly making such dolls was at Dresden, we’re said, no physical evidence will be required and provided for that one either. How convenient. But I concede that the sex doll factory of Dresden is not less proven that the Zionist fictional homicidal gas chambers of WW2.

                  Gossip history is fun.😉

                  Comment by hermie — October 12, 2015 @ 6:12 am

                • Hermie, I think you took what I wrote out of context. I was not saying that Hitler invented sex dolls, I was saying that Mr. Schlageter was having sex with a doll that looked like Hitler.

                  I’m also saying that Mr. Schlageter now owns a Goebbels sex doll and he has threesomes with it and the Hitler sex doll.

                  I get irritated when someone gets personal, it brings out my creative side.

                  I hope for his sake that the Hitler doll is not anatomically correct, Hitler had bowel problems.

                  Comment by HCW — October 12, 2015 @ 8:35 am

                • HCW: “Hermie, I think you took what I wrote out of context. I was not saying that Hitler invented sex dolls, I was saying that Mr. Schlageter was having sex with a doll that looked like Hitler.”

                  It seems I had indeed misunderstood what you were referring to. I had first assumed that you were referring to the ridiculous baseless story of German soldiers moving around with sex dolls in their bags during WW2. That’s a story spread by clownish newspapers like The Daily Mail some years ago.

                  Comment by hermie — October 12, 2015 @ 7:49 pm

    • I blogged about a real homicidal gas chamber in Jefferson City, MO on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/what-does-a-real-gas-chamber-look-like/

      Your friend Fred Leuchter was a consultant for the Missouri gas chamber. He can tell you how it worked. The alleged gas chambers used by the Nazis were shower rooms, which worked quite differently.

      I blogged about how the Dachau gas chamber worked in this blog post:
      https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/the-method-used-at-dachau-to-input-the-gas-into-the-gas-chamber/

      Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2015 @ 6:44 am


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