Scrapbookpages Blog

February 18, 2016

I’m still waiting to see the movie entitled “Son of Saul”

Filed under: Holocaust, movies — furtherglory @ 10:31 am
Scene from Son of Saul movie

Photo from Son of Saul, a movie about the Holocaust

The movie entitled “Son of Saul” is supposed to play in my city in February 2016.  I keep checking the movie schedule for the theater, in which it is allegedly scheduled to be shown, but there is nothing listed for this film.  I have been waiting so long that I am beginning to lose interest in the film.

This quote is from a review that you can read in full at https://newrepublic.com/article/130019/son-saul-not-just-another-holocaust-movie

Begin quote:

While the premise is relatively simple, Nemes presents it in a radical manner as the film focuses primarily on Saul, presented the majority of the time in medium close-up (from the waist up) with much of the background blurred. Thus, when he is on his hands and knees, scrubbing the bloody stains from the floor of the gas chamber, we see vague images of bodies dragged out behind him.

[…]

What I found more troubling was the narrative leap we’re required to make where Saul’s movements are concerned. He seems to have free range where roaming around the camp is concerned, and while that might be vital to telling the story, it stretches the plausibility of the entire affair. Unnecessary subplots bog down the story as well, as screenwriters Clara Royer and Nemes set the action during the events of Oct 7 and 8, 1944, in which an inmate revolt took place and four astonishing pictures — the only ones known to be taken in any of the camps depicting Nazis disposing of Holocaust victims — were taken. Saul finds himself at the center of both of these events, which distracts him from his primary focus.

End quote

The ruins of Krema IV are a reconstruction

The ruins of Krema IV are a reconstruction

The subject of “the Sonderkommando revolt” is quite controversial. The revolt took place in Krema IV, which was located just north of the clothing warehouses, which were in a section at Auschwitz-Birkenau that the prisoners had named “Canada” because of all the riches to be found there.

Across the road from Canada was the Central Sauna which had a shower room and disinfection chambers where the prisoners’ clothing was deloused. Krema IV had a fake shower room which was actually a gas chamber, according to Holocaust True Believers.

According to Michael J. Neufeld and Michael Berenbaum, in their book entitled The Bombing of Auschwitz: Should the Allies Have Attempted It? the Krema IV and Krema V buildings were 220 feet long by 42 feet wide.

The Krema IV building was completely demolished, blown up with dynamite which several women prisoners had stolen from the factory where they were working. All the bricks from the building were removed by Polish civilians after the war, and the ruins that visitors see today are a reconstruction, according to the Auschwitz Museum.

The prisoners who worked in the crematory buildings, removing the bodies of the victims who had been gassed, were members of a special group called the Sonderkommando. According to Dr. Miklos Nyiszli, who was allegedly a prisoner at Auschwitz-Birkenau who did autopsies, each Sonderkommando group was killed after a few months and replaced by a new crew.

Knowing that they were soon going to be killed, the members of the next-to-last Sonderkommando revolted and blew up the Krema IV building. A sign at Krema IV says that there were 450 prisoners who were killed by the SS during the revolt or afterwards in retaliation.

For some unknown reason, the men in the last Sonderkommando group were not exterminated. Around 100 of them were marched out of the camp when it was abandoned by the Nazis on January 18, 1945. Several members of this Sonderkommando group survived and three of them gave eye-witness testimony at the 1947 trial of Auschwitz Commandant Rudolf Hoess, about how the prisoners were gassed at Birkenau.

 

 

42 Comments »

  1. I certainly will not watch that movie.

    Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 18, 2016 @ 11:43 pm

  2. German contemporary documents tend to show that the events of October 7, 1944 at Birkenau came as a result of a failed mass escape attempt. The contention that Krema IV was demolished in order to destroy an alleged gas chamber and that it was done because the Sonderkommando guys working there were to be liquidated and knew it, is a mere testimony-based narrative as usually. A group of prisoners blowing up their workplace by despair when they realized their escape attempt was not going to succeed, is not evidence of anything other than the dangerousness of desperate men. The events of October 7, 1944 were more an escape attempt that went wrong and turned into a riot than a real revolt as often alleged. Prisoners setting fire to ‘their’ prison during riots are anything but unsual. Neither giant gas chambers nor top secret extermination programs are needed for that.

    Comment by hermie — February 18, 2016 @ 8:40 pm

  3. I don’t know how they did it day in and day out…assisting the herding of hundreds of terrified Jews into the gas chambers and then dragging the befouled corpses out, removing rings and pulling gold teeth etc. and then sliding the bodies into crematory ovens. The Sondercommandos were a special kind of victim, a double victim, forced to kill their families, friends and co-religionists only to be killed themselves every few months. Is it any wonder that one day they just said “No!” to horror and finally revolted? I’m really looking forward to seeing Son of Saul, too, because I’ve read nothing but great things about it. Movies about the Holocaust are usually sad (unless they are slapstick comedies like Seven Beauties or Life is Beautiful) so I’m going to take along an extra hankie.

    Comment by who dares wings — February 18, 2016 @ 5:38 pm

    • “I don’t know how they did it day in and day out…assisting the herding of hundreds of terrified Jews into the gas chambers and then dragging the befouled corpses out, removing rings and pulling gold teeth etc. and then sliding the bodies into crematory ovens. The Sondercommandos were a special kind of victim, a double victim, forced to kill their families, friends and co-religionists only to be killed themselves every few months.”

      It’s nice to see you sympathize with these victims. I didn’t realize you had it in you.

      “Is it any wonder that one day they just said “No!” to horror and finally revolted?”

      No wondering about it.

      “I’m really looking forward to seeing Son of Saul, too, because I’ve read nothing but great things about it. Movies about the Holocaust are usually sad (unless they are slapstick comedies like Seven Beauties or Life is Beautiful) so I’m going to take along an extra hankie.”

      You seem especially empathetic right now. I suggest taking a whole box so you don’t run out. Maybe after the movie you can go home and create some art about it.

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 3:38 am

      • You quoted “who dares wings” who wrote “I don’t know how they did it day in and day out…” I believe that “who dares wings” was writing sarcastically.

        Comment by furtherglory — February 19, 2016 @ 5:37 am

        • I know.
          I was being sarcastic in turn.

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 5:44 am

    • Incidentally I clicked back to your website to look at some of your creations.
      I like the bunny collection. Some of them were very funny, especially the “Hard Drug Hare.”
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 3:47 am

  4. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(2016_film)

    This is the movie about Jessie Owens and the 1936 Olympics.
    I have no urge to see this, I prefer to see movies as pure escapism, plus the inevitable over dramatization makes my teeth ache.
    However, I’m just surprised that FG has not brought this up.

    Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:23 pm

    • Let’s see how honestly the film covers this:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205572/Hitler-shook-hands-black-1936-Olympic-hero-Jesse-Owens.html

      Comment by Schlageter — February 18, 2016 @ 3:27 pm

      • Incidentally, everyone knows to visit the Olympia-Stadion in Berlin, but what is really cool is the rundown remains of the old Olympic Village, a few miles west of the city along the B5 in the Brandenburg countryside nestled in between former Wehrmacht /Soviet kasernes.

        It’s largely overgrown, but as of October of 2015, you can pay a few Euro to wander in between the old buildings. Only Owens’ old dorm room has been preserved and maintained…but all are on relatively good shape.

        Comment by Schlageter — February 18, 2016 @ 3:31 pm

      • I hope the movie is honest about this.
        It’s too bad that a copy of the described photo no longer exists, if it existed at all.
        Owens family was involved in the making of the movie, if he shared this with his family then this story needs to be included.
        But, I’ve already said, I’m not going to see this movie.
        Deadpool is more to my liking.
        Jeff

        Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:37 pm

  5. I find it curious that you haven’t posted anything about the movie “Race,” FG.
    I would think you would have mentioned it by now.
    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 2:45 pm

  6. How Documents Buried by Jewish Prisoners at Auschwitz Tell the Story of Genocide

    By Nicholas Chare and Dominic Williams

    The Scrolls of Auschwitz comprise a variety of documents written by members of the Sonderkommando, or Special Squad, a group of predominantly Jewish prisoners who were forced to work in the crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau. (Son of Saul, which has just been nominated for an Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film, was inspired by the Scrolls.) These writings were buried in the grounds of the crematoria in 1944. Between 1945 and 1980, eight caches of documents by five known authors were discovered, mostly by chance; few who knew their whereabouts had survived. As our recently published book, Matters of Testimony: Interpreting the Scrolls of Auschwitz, shows, the documents buried at Auschwitz provide important new insights into the Sonderkommando and into Holocaust testimony in general.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2016/02/03/pages_from_the_scrolls_of_auschwitz_buried_by_the_sonderkommando.html

    Comment by who dares wings — February 18, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

  7. Sent from my iPad

    >

    Comment by Susan Myers — February 18, 2016 @ 1:40 pm

  8. The official holocaust story claims that Krema IV in Birkenau was blown up by a Sondercommando Revolt on October 7th, 1944.

    The H.E.A.R.T, website gives details of how the explosives were obtained, but my-oh-my, it is a very ragged, incomplete and unconvincing tale indeed! In fact, there are three separate strands of who was involved, and how the explosives were physically smuggled into the compound of Krema IV.

    H.E.A.R.T. says that three female Jewish workers who were employed in the Weischel-Union Metallworke Plant, somehow managed to smuggle out explosive materials ( it claims dynamite ) from the factory, and hand it over to either 1) A Polish Jew named Wrobel, who is described as a member of a Sondercommando; 2) A couple of leaders of the Sondercommando, named Israel Gutman and Jehuda Lerner; or 3) A fellow female worker who handed it on to a Polish Jewess named Roza Roberta, who worked in the Canada section of Birkenau, whose compound perimeter fence bordered that of Krema IV.

    It doesn’t say where, when or how the explosive material changed hands, although there is mention of a food tray with a false bottom where the material was hidden. But the problem is – the female munitions workers were based in the Auschwitz main camp, and the plant lay some distance outside it, whereas the Sondercommandos and the Canada Camp personnel were incarcerated inside Birkenau, and would have no reason or permission to leave the camp. Thus, it is difficult to see – from the information that H.E.A.R.T. supplies us with – how the explosives could have arrived inside Birkenau.

    In addition to this, it is claimed that the Sondercommandos were consigned to live within the Kremas themselves from the end of June 1944. Which means they were basically held incommunicado from the rest of the Birkenau camp within a formidable barbed-wired compound, and thus it would have been almost impossible to have communicated with anyone in order to organise and plan such an operation.

    But supposing it was possible to have smuggled in explosive materials; how would any of the Sondercommando personnel know how to assemble such material into viable “hand-made grenades”. They had no idea at all, that what they were being given was in fact explosive, because they had no laboratory equipment to forensically examine it. They simply had to trust the female workers at the munitions plant, plus the smugglers who brought in the material. But even then, the Sondercommandos still had to make some kind of detonators to make the grenades work – and then hope for the best that the explosions would not be a damp squid, or blow the entire facility – along with themselves to kingdom come.

    Comment by Talbot — February 18, 2016 @ 1:25 pm

    • I think you make very interesting points on your post, Talbot.
      I understand your questioning the Sondercommando revolt at Birkenau, Talbot.
      The one I don’t understand is you questioning the revolt of the Jewish workers at Treblinka.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 2:42 pm

      • On reflection, Jeff, I was a bit too hasty in describing the Treblinka revolt as a fake story. The coincidence of it resembling the Sobibor revolt led me to doubt that something similar could have happened at the former camp. But there is indeed credible evidence from both former inmates and guards that some kind of insurrection, or ” escape event”, took place there in the summer of 1943. Maybe it needs more investigation.

        Comment by Talbot — February 18, 2016 @ 3:09 pm

        • The workers at both camps were driven by the fact that deportations had ended and the clean up operations had almost finished, making the workers fear for their lives.
          The revolt at Sobibor was also driven by the fact it was almost time for the first snows, which would make it easier to track the escaping prisoners.

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:14 pm

        • I keep trying to post this to you, Talbot.

          These are documents that report on the revolt at Krema IV.

          http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-auschwitz-birkenau-sonderkommando.html?m=1

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:43 pm

        • Jeff, Talbot, regarding Treblinka, here is an interesting debate about what happened – Final Destination Treblinka:

          http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?s=84b5c5b6c0300ee3923b695a5ddf0155&t=4511

          Comment by srebrenica — February 18, 2016 @ 3:43 pm

          • Thanks, srebrenica.
            Those pictures are incredibly telling, the pictures with the remains.
            I’ve noticed that deniers have no logical explanation on why/how those bones got there…..not to mention why at those sites bone fragments continue to come to the surface, especially after it rains.
            Jeff

            Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:50 pm

          • I went to the website which you included in your comment. This quote is from the website: “I have written it to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that Treblinka was an extermination camp devoted to the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Jews within the framework of the Final Solution. Any shortcomings of detail, therefore, must needs be remedied by other treatises.”

            I have been to Treblinka and I doubt that Treblinka was an “extermination camp.”

            I have written FOUR blog posts about Treblinka:

            https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/11/07/the-story-of-treblinka-transit-camp-or-extermination-center/

            https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/was-treblinka-really-a-transit-camp/

            https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/the-trains-that-traveled-west-to-treblinka/

            https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/malkinia-junction-where-the-trains-to-treblinka-stopped/

            Comment by furtherglory — February 18, 2016 @ 4:05 pm

            • My question continues to be:
              Transit camps to where?

              If there were large numbers of Jews passing through these camps, where was their destination?
              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 4:08 pm

              • Treblinka and the other two Operation Reinhard camps, Sobibor and Belzec, were all located near the Bug river which formed the eastern border of German-occupied Poland. The Bug river is very shallow at Treblinka; it is what people from Missouri would call a “crick” or creek, compared to the Missouri and the Mississippi rivers. It is shallow enough to wade across in the Summer time, or to walk across when it is frozen in the Winter.

                The territory on the other side of the Bug river was White Russia (Belarus) and the section of Poland that was given to the Soviet Union after the joint conquest of Poland by the Germans and the Soviet Union in September 1939. This part of Poland was formerly occupied by the Russians between 1772 and 1917; between 1835 and 1917, this area was included in the Pale of Settlement, a huge reservation where the Eastern European Jews were forced to live.

                The tiny village of Treblinka is located on the railroad line running from Ostrów Mazowiecki to Siedlce; a short distance from Treblinka, at Malkinia Junction, this line intersects the major railway line which runs from Warsaw, east to Bialystok. Trains can reverse directions at the Junction and return to Warsaw, or turn south towards Lublin, which was the headquarters for Operation Reinhard. A few Jews from Warsaw were sent to the Majdanek death camp in Lublin on trains that turned south at the Malkinia Junction.

                Comment by furtherglory — February 18, 2016 @ 4:20 pm

                • You said that the Bug River is shallow enough to cross by wading in the Summer, or waiting for it freeze in the Winter.

                  I can see this before the invasion of the USSR but not afterwards. It certainly does not account for the million or so Jews transported out of the ghettos in 1942. Are you saying that the SS transported these Jews to the camps and let them wade or cross the river?
                  If this is not what you are saying, then what happened to these Jews?
                  I simply can’t see how the Germans could or would set up camps for all these Jews, conditions on the Eastern Front does not support this.
                  It also does not account for the Jews sent to Auschwitz, especially the Hungarian Jews.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 3:32 am

                • I wrote about the Hungarian Jews who were sent to Auschwitz on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/the-holocaust-is-mainly-the-strory-of-the-hungarian-jews/

                  If the Nazis had wanted to kill the Jews in Warsaw, they could have killed them in huge gas chambers there. Instead, they transported them to Treblinka, a place way out in the boondocks.

                  I wrote about the Bug river and its importance in this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/malkinia-junction-where-the-trains-to-treblinka-stopped/#more-15471

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 19, 2016 @ 5:51 am

                • Not all of your reply came through but I read the rest of it.
                  You said that if the Nazis wanted to kill all of the Jews in Warsaw they could have done it with giant gas chambers in Warsaw, instead they transported them out to the boondocks.
                  Why would the SS risk resistance and the loss of secrecy by doing such a thing?
                  The idea is that the SS didn’t want anyone to know, so they transported the Jews out to the boondocks.
                  They kept a modicum of secrecy by doing this, risking less of a chance of exposure and possible resistance, even armed resistance (which happened later anyway with the Ghetto Uprising).
                  From what I understand Belzec and Sobibor are even more remote, which makes sense if you don’t want word getting out.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 12:20 pm

                • When I went to Warsaw, accompanied by my tour guide, she warned me that Jews were watching the tourists to see if they acted with proper respect when touring places related to the Jews. After we visited one of the Jewish tourist sites, we got back into the guide’s car and watched while Jews came out of hiding and checked the Memorial to see if we had done any harm. Later, at another site, we saw tourists being attacked by Jews.

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 19, 2016 @ 1:22 pm

                • “we got back into the guide’s car and watched while Jews came out of hiding and checked the Memorial to see if we had done any harm. Later, at another site, we saw tourists being attacked by Jews”

                  In 2006 there were around 20,000 Jews in POLAND. I’m pretty sure that most of them have better things to do than hanging around memorials watching tourists. Why were the Jews attacking the tourists?

                  Comment by srebrenica — February 19, 2016 @ 2:10 pm

                • That was my question.
                  Why would Jews attack tourists? That doesn’t make sense.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 3:30 pm

                • The place where Jews were guarding a memorial was “The Umslagplatz.” I wrote about this memorial on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/WarsawGhetto/WarsawGhetto01.html

                  I am trying to remember the place in Warsaw where Jews were attacking tourists. I have this information on my website somewhere, but I can’t find it at the moment.

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 20, 2016 @ 5:35 am

            • FG – The website I posted is a debate between ‘Believer’s’ and ‘Deniers’ about Treblinka. Both sides present their evidence and cross examine the other sides evidence.

              Comment by srebrenica — February 18, 2016 @ 4:52 pm

              • Thanks for telling me this. I read the whole website.

                When I went to Treblinka in 1998, I hired a tour guide, who lived in Poland, from a tour company in New York city. I had a private tour, and there were no other tourists there. I was able to walk around and see everything, so I was able to come to conclusions on my own. The whole place screamed TRANSIT CAMP.

                In 1998, a website was something brand new. The only reason that I knew anything about a website was because I had an AA degree in Data Processing. Back then, a website could only have one photo on each web page and the photo had to be very small.

                To make a long story short, I had a chance to see Treblinka before I read anything about it. I could make up my own mind about what I was seeing — and I saw a transit camp. There was no evidence whatsoever that this was a death camp or an extermination camp.

                Comment by furtherglory — February 18, 2016 @ 5:13 pm

                • Where did the 700,000 Jews that ‘passed through’ Treblinka go to, if it was a transit camp?

                  Comment by srebrenica — February 19, 2016 @ 1:32 pm

                • I’ve asked the same question.
                  No one has the answer.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 3:32 pm

                • FG – any answer

                  Comment by srebrenica — February 19, 2016 @ 3:49 pm

                • She’s busy right now, Bradley Smith just passed away.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 19, 2016 @ 4:21 pm

                • With FG distracted by the sad news of the death of Bradley Smith ( a true gentleman – who had no ill-will towards anyone ), I will offer my own penny-worth of thoughts about what may have happened to the Jews who passed through Treblinka.

                  Firstly, there is evidence from the Shoah Foundation “You Tube” presentations that quite a number of deportees from the Warsaw Ghetto were sent on from Treblinka to Maidanek, where they were distributed throughout its sub-camps at places like Budzyn, Ponitowa, and Trawniki. There, they worked in nearby factories carrying out war work.

                  Secondly, the evidence here is much more sparse – but not entirely lacking. The bulk of the deportees went on from Treblinka, eastwards into the occupied territories of the Soviet Union. It is noteworthy that Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec stood at the very end of the German railway gauge and at the start of the wider Russian railway system. I would suggest that the Soviets found the documents of these eastbound train movements, as well as their destinations, after the war, but withheld them from publication at the Nuremburg Tribunals, because both they ( and the newly-formed Polish government ) wanted to build up the legend of exterminations at these Reinhardt camp sites.

                  There is evidence from leading Nazi figures – including Himmler – that the Jews of central and western Europe were to be “funnelled” eastwards out of the German sphere of interest and into territories that would be opened up for settlement beyond the Urals, or the Caspian Sea. The German army obviously didn’t get there, and so what actually happened is debatable. Did the Nazis use some of these Jews in forced labour camps within the occupied territories, but halted other trains in remote locations shoot the unwanted ones? But without the release of all the WW2 Moscow archives we remain in the realm of speculation.

                  The Soviet prosecutor at Nuremburg did allude to many camps inside the Soviet Union – especially up towards the front-line, where large numbers of “Soviet citizens” were held for forced labour. But he left any details of who they were; where they came from; and how many where there, tantalisingly short of answers.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 2:56 am

                • “Firstly, there is evidence from the Shoah Foundation “You Tube” presentations that quite a number of deportees from the Warsaw Ghetto were sent on from Treblinka to Maidanek, where they were distributed throughout its sub-camps at places like Budzyn, Ponitowa, and Trawniki. There, they worked in nearby factories carrying out war work.”

                  I think that is probably reversed, Jews transited through Majdanek to the camps you described, with anyone unable to work on to Treblinka. Arad’s book, “Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, the Operation Reinhard Camps,” mentions that the camp commandants of B, S, and T getting annoyed that others took healthier prisoners, leaving few for them to pick through (they also needed workers).

                  “Secondly, the evidence here is much more sparse – but not entirely lacking. The bulk of the deportees went on from Treblinka, eastwards into the occupied territories of the Soviet Union.”

                  I know we’ve tread over this ground before but what evidence?

                  “It is noteworthy that Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec stood at the very end of the German railway gauge and at the start of the wider Russian railway system. I would suggest that the Soviets found the documents of these eastbound train movements, as well as their destinations, after the war, but withheld them from publication at the Nuremburg Tribunals, because both they ( and the newly-formed Polish government ) wanted to build up the legend of exterminations at these Reinhardt camp sites.”

                  Why bother to do that? The Soviets found Majdanek, Auschwitz and the other concentration camps in Poland. Just as easy and frankly more believable to utilize standing camps rather than the wrecked remnants of the OR camps, not to mention Chelmno. Why did the Soviets go to those locations? Survivors and villagers led them to the locations.

                  “There is evidence from leading Nazi figures – including Himmler – that the Jews of central and western Europe were to be “funnelled” eastwards out of the German sphere of interest and into territories that would be opened up for settlement beyond the Urals, or the Caspian Sea. The German army obviously didn’t get there, and so what actually happened is debatable.”

                  Please provide such evidence so that it can be viewed.

                  “Did the Nazis use some of these Jews in forced labour camps within the occupied territories”

                  Why? There were large numbers of Jews in the Soviet Union within those occupied territories. The Germans could easily utilize those Jews without trucking Jews into those areas from Europe.

                  “but halted other trains in remote locations shoot the unwanted ones? But without the release of all the WW2 Moscow archives we remain in the realm of speculation.”

                  What the Russians have released in regards to places like Auschwitz confirm that it was a death camp.
                  My own personal belief is that the Soviets snatched all of the paperwork they could find, filed it away somewhere and forgot about it.

                  “The Soviet prosecutor at Nuremburg did allude to many camps inside the Soviet Union – especially up towards the front-line, where large numbers of “Soviet citizens” were held for forced labour.”

                  The key words there are “Soviet Citizens.”

                  “But he left any details of who they were; where they came from; and how many where there, tantalisingly short of answers.”

                  I actually agree with you on that one. He only mentions 33,000 in regards to some camps but this number falls well short of the millions of Jews who vanished during the war.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 8:29 am

                • Norman Finklestein’s mother was sent to Majdanek, not Treblinka. I wrote about this on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/jews-from-the-warsaw-ghetto-were-sent-to-the-treblinka-death-camp-except-for-norman-finkelsteins-parents/

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 20, 2016 @ 8:48 am

                • I mentioned Ponitowa on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/photos-of-the-majdanek-death-camp/

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 20, 2016 @ 9:03 am

    • I knew I’d seen this somewhere. Here is some contemporary reports about the Krema IV revolt.

      http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-auschwitz-birkenau-sonderkommando.html?m=1

      I hope this helps.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 18, 2016 @ 3:09 pm


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