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February 20, 2016

The last survivor of Treblinka, Samuel Willenberg, dead at 93

Filed under: Germany, Holocaust — Tags: , , — furtherglory @ 7:47 am
Samuel Willenberg

Samuel Willenberg, the last survivor of Treblinka camp

Symbolic cemetery at Treblinka

Symbolic cemetery at Treblinka

There are no graves for the Jews who were allegedly killed at Treblinka, but there is a symbolic cemetery that has been built over the ground where the bodies were allegedly buried.  No digging is allowed, so the bodies have never been found.

I blogged about Samuel Willenberg in this previous blog post:  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/samuel-willenberg-91-the-last-living-survivor-of-the-treblinka-extermination-camp/

I also blogged about his daughter who has designed an Education Center for tourists at the Treblinka Memorial Site on the grounds of the former Treblinka death camp. https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/90-year-old-survivor-of-treblinka-death-camp-unveils-foundation-stone-for-future-treblinka-education-center-designed-by-his-daughter/

The original sign at the Treblinka camp

The original sign at the Treblinka camp

The following quote is from a news article about Willenberg’s death:

Begin quote:
Samuel Willenberg, the last surviving prisoner of Treblinka — who managed to escape the Nazi death camp in 1943 — has died at the age of 93.

In 1941, Willenberg’s two sisters were arrested in Czestochowa, while his parents used false documents to escape the Nazi purge. At the age of 19, he was rounded up with the Jews during the liquidation of the ghetto in Opatow in southern Poland, and sent to Treblinka.

Acting on the advice of another Jewish prisoner, Willenberg posed as a bricklayer upon his arrival at the extermination camp. He was the only person from his transport not to perish in the gas chambers.

Willenberg took part in the 1943 revolt at Treblinka, becoming one of the few hundred who managed to escape the camp.

[…]

His daughter, Orit Willenberg-Giladi, was in 2013 named as the architect to design a Holocaust education center on the site of the Nazi death camp.

End quote

Huge monument at Treblinka in honor of the Jews who died there

Huge monument at Treblinka in honor of the Jews who died there

29 Comments »

  1. “No digging is allowed, so the bodies have not been found”.

    Well, the photo of the large Treblinka Memorial suggests otherwise, because a structure this size would require deep foundations, which proves that digging actually was permitted on the site. And didn’t Caroline Sturdy-Colls dig into the ground to find pieces of tile during her discredited archaeological dig, despite the Chief Rabbi of Poland shaking his head sternly at her request.

    Wikipedia says the following about Treblinka;-

    “What remained, wrote visiting Soviet war correspondent Vasily Grossman, were small pieces of bone in the soil, human teeth, scraps of paper and fabric, broken dishes, jars, shaving brushes, rusted pots and pans, cups of all sizes, mangled shoes, and lumps of human hair… The road leading to the camp was pitch black. Until mid-1944 human ashes (up to 20 carts every day) had been regularly strewn by the remaining prisoners along the road for 2 kilometres (1.2 miles) in the direction of Treblinka… When the war ended, destitute and starving locals started walking up the Black Road (as they began to call it) in search of man-made nuggets shaped from melted gold in order to buy bread…

    …The new Soviet-installed government did not preserve evidence of the camp. The scene was not legally protected at the conclusion of World War II. In September 1947, 30 students from the local school, led by their teacher Feliks Szturo and priest Józef Ruciński, collected larger bones and skull fragments into farmers’ wicker baskets and buried them in a single mound.”

    Well, obviously the Soviet and Polish authorities didn’t regard Treblinka as important enough to carry out a forensic examination of the site, nor to preserve it any way. Is this not strange behaviour, when you’re dealing with the alleged “largest mass-murder site in the world”. One has to ask, why was the clearing-up of the site left in the hands of students from a local school, led by their teacher and a priest. None of these people were qualified to do this kind of work – its totally unbelievable what Wikipedia is suggesting here.

    And then you’ve got ask three other question;- 1) Where is this single mound of bones and fragments located today, because when I visited Treblinka in 2012 – it just weren’t there, folks!. 2) Where were the articles such as shaving brushes and human hair that Comrade Grossman identified taken to?. 3) The road leading up from the main road to the site was not “pitch black” with human remains in 2012, so obviously some excavation work had taken place and these remains taken to somewhere – where exactly?. Well, we’ll just have to wait in eager anticipation for a Holocaustian to write in their contribution to Wikipedia.

    Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 9:53 am

    • “Well, the photo of the large Treblinka Memorial suggests otherwise, because a structure this size would require deep foundations, which proves that digging actually was permitted on the site.”

      Why would you think that the memorial was built over a mass grave?

      “And didn’t Caroline Sturdy-Colls dig into the ground to find pieces of tile during her discredited archaeological dig, despite the Chief Rabbi of Poland shaking his head sternly at her request.”

      What is discredited about it? Stolls found a grave at Treblinka I, the labor camp nearby.
      What Colls did confirm (from eyewitness testimony given by survivors and perpetrators) is that the gas chamber(s) were the only permanent structures at the camp. The foundation that she found, with the tiles, confirms the existence of the structure.
      Her INTERPRETATION of the tiles may be incorrect, the misinterpretation of the “Star of David,” but it does prove that the Nazis used local materials to build these structures. As these camps were meant for Polish Jews it made sense they would recognize these tiles.

      Wikipedia says the following about Treblinka;-

      “What remained, wrote visiting Soviet war correspondent Vasily Grossman, were small pieces of bone in the soil, human teeth, scraps of paper and fabric, broken dishes, jars, shaving brushes, rusted pots and pans, cups of all sizes, mangled shoes, and lumps of human hair… The road leading to the camp was pitch black. Until mid-1944 human ashes (up to 20 carts every day) had been regularly strewn by the remaining prisoners along the road for 2 kilometres (1.2 miles) in the direction of Treblinka… When the war ended, destitute and starving locals started walking up the Black Road (as they began to call it) in search of man-made nuggets shaped from melted gold in order to buy bread…

      …The new Soviet-installed government did not preserve evidence of the camp. The scene was not legally protected at the conclusion of World War II. In September 1947, 30 students from the local school, led by their teacher Feliks Szturo and priest Józef Ruciński, collected larger bones and skull fragments into farmers’ wicker baskets and buried them in a single mound.”

      “Well, obviously the Soviet and Polish authorities didn’t regard Treblinka as important enough to carry out a forensic examination of the site, nor to preserve it any way. Is this not strange behaviour, when you’re dealing with the alleged “largest mass-murder site in the world”. One has to ask, why was the clearing-up of the site left in the hands of students from a local school, led by their teacher and a priest. None of these people were qualified to do this kind of work – its totally unbelievable what Wikipedia is suggesting here.”

      Why is this unbelievable?
      The Soviets and Poles neglected all of the sites in Poland, not just the death camps.
      You assume that the Poles and Soviets had the same priorities as the West did, to forensically examine each site. The Poles were busy rebuilding their country, as were the Soviets. They had other priorities. The Soviets were well acquainted with mass murder having practiced it themselves. Nothing the Germans did would necessarily shock them (maybe they felt some envy over what the Germans did).

      “And then you’ve got ask three other question;- 1) Where is this single mound of bones and fragments located today, because when I visited Treblinka in 2012 – it just weren’t there, folks!. 2) Where were the articles such as shaving brushes and human hair that Comrade Grossman identified taken to?. 3) The road leading up from the main road to the site was not “pitch black” with human remains in 2012, so obviously some excavation work had taken place and these remains taken to somewhere – where exactly?”

      Apparently the assumption is that Poland is the land where time stood still.
      So, you think all of these things would be left in place? Over the last 70 years?
      That’s a rather large assumption on your part.

      “Well, we’ll just have to wait in eager anticipation for a Holocaustian to write in their contribution to Wikipedia.”
      Or we can wait with baited breath for some denier to write another book about it…..and make an ass of themselves.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 10:50 am

    • Oh, and Talbot, the website below has pictures taken in 1945.

      Among those included are pictures of skeletal remains.

      I guess it is an incorrect assumption, that “there are no bodies buried at the site.”

      http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?s=84b5c5b6c0300ee3923b695a5ddf0155&t=4511

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 11:04 am

      • Yes, Jeff, but where are these “skeletal remains” today?. And where precisely on the Treblinka site were they found. How many bodies were exhumed, and were they adults, children, male or female. We need the official report of the dig to find out what was discovered, and why the remainder of the site was not excavated to find out if other bodies were lying there who had not been cremated on pyres as alleged.

        Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 11:33 am

        • “Yes, Jeff, but where are these “skeletal remains” today?. And where precisely on the Treblinka site were they found. How many bodies were exhumed, and were they adults, children, male or female. We need the official report of the dig to find out what was discovered, and why the remainder of the site was not excavated to find out if other bodies were lying there who had not been cremated on pyres as alleged.”

          I went looking for a copy of the actual Polish report, as far as I can tell it does not exist on line.

          This contains excerpts. It tells where the remains were found.

          http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/07/polish-investigations-of-treblinka.html?m=

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 11:55 am

          • This Polish team of forensic examiners claim to have spent just five days investigating a mass murder site allegedly involving the deaths of three quarters of a million people – and that included the time digging pits of up to 6 and 7’5 metres deep. No, I’m afraid that’s not good enough to be convincing at all – plus the fact that it is claimed that scavengers had done a lot of their own haphazard digging there beforehand. In addition, it says that bomb craters and unexploded ordnance was present there as well.

            The report goes on to say:- “In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.”

            Well, one has to ask – were these human bones, including skulls and remains covered with tissue left to weather and decay on the surface, or was a team sent in soon afterwards to bury the remains properly. If they were, then they would have marked the grave in an appropriate manner. But there is no sign of this grave today, nor indeed of the 2 hectare surface area where the remains were found.

            Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 12:38 pm

            • “This Polish team of forensic examiners claim to have spent just five days investigating a mass murder site allegedly involving the deaths of three quarters of a million people – and that included the time digging pits of up to 6 and 7’5 metres deep.”

              They stopped because of inclement weather. The report states that.

              “No, I’m afraid that’s not good enough to be convincing at all – plus the fact that it is claimed that scavengers had done a lot of their own haphazard digging there beforehand. In addition, it says that bomb craters and unexploded ordnance was present there as well.”

              It was also explained that this ordinance was probably brought on site in order to blow craters in the earth to look for “Jew gold.”

              “The report goes on to say:- “In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.”

              Well, one has to ask – were these human bones, including skulls and remains covered with tissue left to weather and decay on the surface, or was a team sent in soon afterwards to bury the remains properly. If they were, then they would have marked the grave in an appropriate manner. But there is no sign of this grave today, nor indeed of the 2 hectare surface area where the remains were found.”

              You already stated in the Wikipedia article that students came afterwards to clean up the site.
              Again, are we to presume that time stopped at Treblinka, that nothing changed?
              I’ve already stated that the Poles and Soviets neglected all of the sites, death camps included. Poland was a relatively poor country during its years under the Communists, why do you think the Communists would spend a lot of money on preservation?

              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 12:49 pm

              • Well, one could ask why wealthy International Jewry could not have done more themselves to carry out a thorough forensic examination of these sites and then establish a proper graveyard with suitable memorials. The three Reinhardt sites, even today, are totally inadequate, if – as it is claimed – there were up to one and a half million Jews who murdered there. In fact, only Belzec seems to have a perimeter fence, or wall, around it, while Sobibor and Treblinka are completely open to the surrounding woodland day and night.

                Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 1:57 pm

                • “Well, one could ask why wealthy International Jewry”

                  I love the way you put that. Now we are back to the amorphous Jewish mass.

                  “could not have done more themselves to carry out a thorough forensic examination of these sites and then establish a proper graveyard with suitable memorials.”

                  Why would you think the Polish/Soviet authorities would permit such a thing?
                  It was Polish/Soviet policy to downplay the “Jewishness” of the victims.

                  “The three Reinhardt sites, even today, are totally inadequate, if – as it is claimed – there were up to one and a half million Jews who murdered there. In fact, only Belzec seems to have a perimeter fence, or wall, around it, while Sobibor and Treblinka are completely open to the surrounding woodland day and night.”

                  I believe efforts are being made today to improve the memorials at the sites. I believe the Belgian government contributed grant money to one of the sites because Belgian Jews died there.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 2:10 pm

                • “I believe efforts are being made today to improve the memorials at the sites.”

                  Well, its only taken them 70 years to get around to doing this – so its well done Poland, as well as International Jewry, for your commitment and speed!.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 3:20 pm

                • “I believe efforts are being made today to improve the memorials at the sites.”

                  “Well, its only taken them 70 years to get around to doing this – so its well done Poland, as well as International Jewry, for your commitment and speed!.”

                  It’s weird that that the Jews, who run everything, did let it go that long.
                  Or all of those Jewish-Bolshevists who ran the Soviet Union didn’t make a bigger effort.
                  Oh, well. Must have been busy.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 4:06 pm

        • At the risk of getting another 500 comments on this blog post, I’ll repost my link to the perpetrators comments, which includes this from Kurt Franz:

          I cannot say how many Jews in total were gassed in Treblinka. On
          average each day a large train arrived. Sometimes there were even two.
          This however was not so common.

          In Treblinka I was commander of the Ukrainian guard unit as I had been
          in Belzec. In Treblinka as in Belzec the unit consisted of sixty to
          eighty men. The Ukrainians’ main task was to man the guard posts
          around the camp perimeter. After the uprising in August 1943 I ran
          the camp more or less single-handedly for a month; however, during
          that period no gassings were undertaken.

          It was during that period that the original camp was demolished.
          Everything was leveled off off and lupins were planted…

          Kurt Franz was a commandant of Treblinka.

          http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/denial/testimony.txt

          Also testimony from a deputy commander at Treblinka

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Matthes

          Comment by srebrenica — February 20, 2016 @ 12:33 pm

          • “At the risk of getting another 500 comments on this blog post, I’ll repost my link to the perpetrators comments”

            Good times!!!!
            😆
            I especially loved Diane’s hysterical caterwauling.
            Jeff

            Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 12:36 pm

          • I now have a hard copy of “The Good Old Days.”
            It’s a difficult read. However, I’m getting through it, a few pages at a time.
            This book should be required reading for any college course on the Holocaust.
            Jeff

            Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 12:40 pm

          • Srebrenica. If you read Kurt Franz words carefully, you will see that he is not actually admitting to any Jews being gassed at Treblinka.

            He says;- “I cannot say how many Jews in total were gassed in Treblinka.”

            and;- “After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp more or less single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were undertaken.”

            Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 12:48 pm

            • “Srebrenica. If you read Kurt Franz words carefully, you will see that he is not actually admitting to any Jews being gassed at Treblinka.”

              He says;- “I cannot say how many Jews in total were gassed in Treblinka.”

              Saying he does not know many Jews were gassed is not an admission?
              He honestly may not know the complete number. He did not command the camp from its conception, Eberl ran the camp at the start.

              “and;- “After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp more or less single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were undertaken.”

              How could there be gassings at the camp with just one person present? Or just a couple?
              There were at least 20-30 SS men present when the camp was in full operation, along with around 100 other guards, the “Hiwis.”
              Also, after the workers revolted the camp was in shambles and in no condition to receive or gas additional prisoners.
              The camp fulfilled its purpose and was getting ready to be de-commissioned when the workers revolted. The reality is that the last few months were about clean-up, not killing. This is what spurred the revolt in the first place.
              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 1:04 pm

            • Ok Talbot, so here is Franz Suchomel talking about gas chambers:

              From one of the transports that arrived in October 1942, Küttner removed ten or twelve young boys and put them to work at various service tasks in the camp. One of the boys he appointed capo [sic] of the group. After about three weeks, the boy was caught giving gold coins to one of the Ukrainians, and Küttner had him, along with all the other boys in the group, taken to the gas chambers

              And Willi Mentz

              When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
              He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
              than could be “processed” in the camp. That meant that trains had to
              wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
              had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
              result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
              heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
              the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
              and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr. Eberl was no
              longer there…

              For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
              then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
              two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
              branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
              same thing was done along the route from the “transfer” area to the
              gas chambers…

              Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
              were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
              many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
              could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
              that number…

              Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
              shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
              commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
              here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
              present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
              to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
              the occupants had been ordered to get out.

              When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
              with them. They were told something to the effect that they were a
              resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
              would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
              and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

              Then the transports were taken off to the so-called “transfer” area.
              The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
              women were than led through a passageway, known as the “tube”, to the
              gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
              in their jewellery and valuables..

              And Erich Bauer

              Usually the undressing went smoothly. Subsequently, the Jews were
              taken through the “tube” to Camp III – the real extermination
              camp. The transfer through the “tube” proceeded as follows: one
              SS man was in the lead and five or six Ukrainian auxiliaries were
              at the back hastening the Jews along. The women were taken through a
              barracks where their hair was cut off. In Camp III the Jews were
              received by an SS man… As I already mentioned, the motor was then
              switched on by Gotringer and one of the auxiliaries whose name I
              don’t remember. Then the gassed Jews were taken out.

              and finally Heinrich Matthes

              During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
              The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
              where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
              later burned.

              About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
              were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
              called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don’t remember his name…
              These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
              chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
              was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
              my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver…

              All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
              about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
              the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
              Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
              Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts…

              The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
              stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
              room opened the gas chambers from the other side.

              All four admitted being at Treblinka, and all mention gassings there.

              Oh I nearly forgot – and there was another death camp commander who admitted his guilt, Franz Stangl:

              What I had to do while I continued my efforts to get out was to limit my own actions to what I — in my own conscience — could answer for. At police training school they taught us that the definition of a crime must meet four requirements: there has to be a subject, an object, an action and intent. If any of these four elements is missing, then we are not dealing with a punishable offence… I could apply this to my own situation — if the subject was the government, the “object” the Jews, and the action the gassing, I could tell myself that for me, the fourth element, “intent”, (I called it free will) was missing

              Comment by srebrenica — February 20, 2016 @ 1:32 pm

              • Srebrenica. Yes, these men do refer to gas chambers, but there are homicidal gas chambers and there are fumigation chambers. Were these men induced by the West German authorities to talk about the former, when it was the latter which might have been in operation at Treblinka. These Former SS men were under arrest for the alleged mass murder of up to three quarters of a million human souls. The enormous pressure upon them to conform to the narrative as laid down at Nuremburg must have been overwhelming – how could any human being stand up in those circumstances and publicly say the camp was merely a transit halt, and they were just fumigating and showering the people as they changed trains. By the 1960’s, the whole world had bought into this gas chamber mythology – and for any individual to go against the official dogma would have been unthinkable – almost sacrilege.

                In addition, these men had to consider their own future. Maybe they weren’t facing capitol punishment, but the West German prosecutors could present them with an enticing offer ;- “if you co’operate with the official narrative then you will spend time in a softer prison, and have regular visits from your families. If not, then a much harsher regime is in prospect.” For men getting on in years, there is not much option there.

                I’m suspicious also of the death of Franz Stangl, the Treblinka Commandant. He conveniently died the very same evening after completing his series of interviews with Gitta Sereny. She could then go ahead and publish what he allegedly told her without him being able to object whether he had actually said those words. Another concern for me, is the death of Heinrich Matthes. How is it possible that no one knows the date or place of his death when he was committed to life imprisonment. Even if he was released on license the authorities would know perfectly well where his was, and what day he died.

                None of these former SS men provide any meaningful technical details of how these “homicidal gas chambers” actually worked. Their claims are so vague, and refer to a German civilian driver / mechanic who operated the motors or engines, and he seemed to come and go at will, leaving the task in the hands of a couple of Ukrainian militia guys. This just doesn’t gel with me – surely a major homicidal operation like this would be completely in the hands of properly trained SS gas technicians, and piping and gas flow engineers. In addition, there is no reference to a ventilation system in these chambers, and there is no real agreement on how many gas chambers there actually were, or how many people they could hold. Whenever I hear the testimonies of these so called eye-witnesses – whether they be guards or inmates – I can’t help asking myself “How long is a piece of string”.

                Comment by Talbot — February 20, 2016 @ 2:57 pm

                • “Srebrenica. Yes, these men do refer to gas chambers, but there are homicidal gas chambers and there are fumigation chambers.”

                  The OR didn’t have these fumigation chambers. The clothes were washed in boiling water, which is quite effective for the size of the camps involved.
                  The fumigation chambers were installed at the regular concentration camps.

                  “Were these men induced by the West German authorities to talk about the former, when it was the latter which might have been in operation at Treblinka.”

                  See above.

                  “These Former SS men were under arrest for the alleged mass murder of up to three quarters of a million human souls. The enormous pressure upon them to conform to the narrative as laid down at Nuremburg must have been overwhelming”

                  Nuremberg happened what, 15 years years previously?
                  There were other trials. You should update.

                  “how could any human being stand up in those circumstances and publicly say the camp was merely a transit halt, and they were just fumigating and showering the people as they changed trains.”

                  If you are innocent you would.

                  “By the 1960’s, the whole world had bought into this gas chamber mythology – and for any individual to go against the official dogma would have been unthinkable – almost sacrilege.”

                  That’s a generalization. You also make it sound like the Holocaust is a religion.
                  The word “Holocaust” also didn’t come into general use until the late 70’s, after the miniseries. The actual word that Jews use is “Shoah.”

                  Why Treblinka? Or any of the OR camps? Those camps barely exist in the public eye. Most of the world knows about Dachau, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen (Westerners).

                  “In addition, these men had to consider their own future. Maybe they weren’t facing capitol punishment, but the West German prosecutors could present them with an enticing offer ;- “if you co’operate with the official narrative then you will spend time in a softer prison, and have regular visits from your families. If not, then a much harsher regime is in prospect.” For men getting on in years, there is not much option there.”

                  Naturally you have no proof. I think you are trying to start a conspiracy theory, good for you.

                  “I’m suspicious also of the death of Franz Stangl, the Treblinka Commandant. He conveniently died the very same evening after completing his series of interviews with Gitta Sereny. She could then go ahead and publish what he allegedly told her without him being able to object whether he had actually said those words.”

                  That’s hysterical, are you honestly trying to accuse a nice lady of murder?
                  She actually made him soup because he wasn’t feeling well. I think this indicates he was showing the first signs of what would eventually kill him.

                  “Another concern for me, is the death of Heinrich Matthes. How is it possible that no one knows the date or place of his death when he was committed to life imprisonment. Even if he was released on license the authorities would know perfectly well where his was, and what day he died.”

                  Oddly, I’m not familiar with this. I need to look this up.

                  “None of these former SS men provide any meaningful technical details of how these “homicidal gas chambers” actually worked. Their claims are so vague, and refer to a German civilian driver / mechanic who operated the motors or engines, and he seemed to come and go at will, leaving the task in the hands of a couple of Ukrainian militia guys.”

                  Well, they didn’t build them. Why would they know technical details?

                  “This just doesn’t gel with me – surely a major homicidal operation like this would be completely in the hands of properly trained SS gas technicians, and piping and gas flow engineers.”

                  Why? Does it take an engineer or technician to turn on an engine?

                  “In addition, there is no reference to a ventilation system in these chambers, and there is no real agreement on how many gas chambers there actually were, or how many people they could hold. Whenever I hear the testimonies of these so called eye-witnesses – whether they be guards or inmates – I can’t help asking myself “How long is a piece of string”.”

                  The chambers did have ventilation systems, nothing very sophisticated because the only thing it had to do was ventilate exhaust fumes, not Zyclon B.
                  There were at least two generations of gas chambers at each camp, this accounts for the discrepancy in the number of chambers and how many people they could hold.
                  You keep pushing the whole conspiracy thing, Talbot. It helps in not having to provide actual proof of anything.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 3:58 pm

                • Srebrenica. Yes, these men do refer to gas chambers, but there are homicidal gas chambers and there are fumigation chambers.

                  See above testimonies

                  Were these men induced by the West German authorities to talk about the former, when it was the latter which might have been in operation at Treblinka. These Former SS men were under arrest for the alleged mass murder of up to three quarters of a million human souls. The enormous pressure upon them to conform to the narrative as laid down at Nuremburg must have been overwhelming

                  No, they were tried in a court of law, and many of their statements are from what they said in court.

                  – how could any human being stand up in those circumstances and publicly say the camp was merely a transit halt, and they were just fumigating and showering the people as they changed trains. By the 1960’s, the whole world had bought into this gas chamber mythology – and for any individual to go against the official dogma would have been unthinkable – almost sacrilege.

                  It wasn’t a transit camp, it was a death camp. Where did they all go if it was a transit camp?

                  In addition, these men had to consider their own future. Maybe they weren’t facing capitol punishment, but the West German prosecutors could present them with an enticing offer ;- “if you co’operate with the official narrative then you will spend time in a softer prison, and have regular visits from your families. If not, then a much harsher regime is in prospect.” For men getting on in years, there is not much option there.

                  Or maybe they said tell the truth instead of “if you co’operate with the official narrative”; who knows – the fact is they testified to what happened there

                  I’m suspicious also of the death of Franz Stangl, the Treblinka Commandant. He conveniently died the very same evening after completing his series of interviews with Gitta Sereny. She could then go ahead and publish what he allegedly told her without him being able to object whether he had actually said those words. Another concern for me, is the death of Heinrich Matthes. How is it possible that no one knows the date or place of his death when he was committed to life imprisonment. Even if he was released on license the authorities would know perfectly well where his was, and what day he died.

                  Do you think Gitta killed him lol? His ‘justification’ for what he did was not to Gitta, it was quoted by Arad. Why does it matter when Matthes died?

                  None of these former SS men provide any meaningful technical details of how these “homicidal gas chambers” actually worked. Their claims are so vague, and refer to a German civilian driver / mechanic who operated the motors or engines, and he seemed to come and go at will, leaving the task in the hands of a couple of Ukrainian militia guys. This just doesn’t gel with me – surely a major homicidal operation like this would be completely in the hands of properly trained SS gas technicians, and piping and gas flow engineers. In addition, there is no reference to a ventilation system in these chambers, and there is no real agreement on how many gas chambers there actually were, or how many people they could hold. Whenever I hear the testimonies of these so called eye-witnesses – whether they be guards or inmates – I can’t help asking myself “How long is a piece of string”.

                  It’s clear they had an engineer.

                  There is testimony from perpetrators and victims, train records, photos, telegrams, Stroop report…..

                  http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?s=84b5c5b6c0300ee3923b695a5ddf0155&t=4511

                  Comment by srebrenica — February 20, 2016 @ 4:24 pm

  2. Sad to hear the old gentleman died. He and the others that took part in the revolt were very brave.
    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 9:15 am

    • Jeff, not sure if you can get IPlayer where you are – I watched this recently, it has interviews with Samuel Willenberg and Kalman Taigman. It’s called Death Camp Treblinka:Survivor Stories. It’s also on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqLME0OP9cQ

      Comment by srebrenica — February 20, 2016 @ 12:47 pm

      • I believe I watched something similar on Netflix.

        It’s very powerful, what these men have to say.

        Jeff

        Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 12:53 pm

  3. The martyrs of Death Camps like Treblinka ought to have at least their rest according Jewish religious rules. So diggings or so had to be avoided. I could not care less about the continous negationist fault looking due to anti Semite hatred.

    Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 20, 2016 @ 8:46 am

    • You wrote: “diggings or so had to be avoided.” No, digging was PREVENTED by the fake gravestones that were put over the alleged burial site. Digging has been PREVENTED because there are no bodies buried at the alleged burial site.

      Comment by furtherglory — February 20, 2016 @ 9:08 am

    • Wolf, in principle I agree with you. However, this is preventing legitimate archeological research from going on at these camps.
      I think what would be better is some exhumation allowed to verify this as a crime scene, with the remains re-interred in a respectful manner.
      Again, no offense. I understand your stance in this matter.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 20, 2016 @ 9:20 am


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