Scrapbookpages Blog

February 26, 2016

Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp gets no respect from tourists

Filed under: Holocaust — furtherglory @ 7:51 am
Garbage on the road outside the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial site

Garbage on the road outside the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial site

My photo of the outside of the Birkeanu camp in 2005

My photo of the outside of the outside of the Auschwitz-Birkeanu camp in 2005

judenrampe3

The photo above shows what the gatehouse originally looked like.

The original gate house was later remodeled with additions on each side of the gate, including a new pedestrian gate. The photo above, taken outside the camp, shows the pedestrian gate which is on the left-hand side, as you face the gate house on the outside of the camp.

I am not sure about this, but I don’t think that cars were allowed to drive on the road up to the Auschwitz-Birkenu camp in 2005, when I last visited the memorial site.

My 2005 photo of the inside of the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp

My 2005 photo taken inside the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp

My photo above shows the gate house which is the main entrance into the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp, also known as the Auschwitz II concentration camp.

Beginning around the middle of May 1944, freight trains that were 40 to 50 cars long rolled through this gate, day and night, bringing thousands of Hungarian Jews to be gassed in the four Birkenau gas chambers. The prisoners called this gate the “Gate of Death.”

The gate house, which is shown in the photos above, was built in 1943, long after the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp was first opened.

The first inmates, who were Soviet Prisoners of War, arrived at Auschitz-Birkenau on October 7, 1941. At first, the gate shown in the photo above was for trucks and pedestrians.

Railroad tracks were not laid through the gate until the Spring of 1944, just before transports of Hungarian Jews began to arrive. According to the Auschwitz Museum, 434,351 of these Hungarian Jews were not registered at Birkenau; instead, they were gassed immediately upon arrival. At the height of the deportation of the Hungarian Jews, during a 10 week period, up to 12,000 Jews were gassed and burned each day, according to the True Believer version of the Holocaust.

Both sides of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gate house are identical. When Stephen Spielberg made the movie, Schindler’s List, he filmed scenes of actors exiting from a train which was outside the camp, but it looked as if the train were inside the camp.

The gate house at Auschwitz-Birkeanu is located three kilometers, or about two miles, from the main Auschwitz camp, known as Auschwitz I.

To get to the Birkenau camp from the main camp, turn right after exiting from the parking lot at the main camp. The road curves to the left and goes over the railroad overpass where Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler stood on March 1, 1941 when he selected the village of Birkenau to be the location of a new addition to the Auschwitz camp. At that time, the invasion of the Soviet Union and the alleged plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe was only months away.

From the overpass, the road leads directly to the famous Gate of Death shown in the photos above. The railroad spur line that goes through the gate house begins on the left side of the gate, about a quarter of a mile away, and curves around until it forms a straight line in front of the gate. Trains coming from the west entered the Birkenau camp from tracks on the left side of the gate, as you are facing it, and did not pass the railroad station in the town of Auschwitz.

Trains coming from the opposite direction passed the train station in Auschwitz and then entered the camp on the spur line. The train tracks end only a few yards from two of the gas chambers inside the Birkenau camp.

In the old days, the town of Auschwitz was a major railroad hub, with many train tracks coming into it, and there was a large marshaling yard near the Auschwitz station. Standing on the railroad overpass in 1941, Himmler realized that Birkenau was an ideal location for transporting people by rail from all over Europe, although the plans for exterminating the Jews were not finalized until the Nazis were confident that they would win their war against the Soviet Union.

101 Comments »

  1. Your crematorium information is completely wrong with what they’ve already said the changing in midstream because that’s not what they said happen in the past in the case of the Hungarian Jews they were alive they didn’t die I don’t know what you want me to prove how do I prove they died you have to show me they died.

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 6:29 pm

    • Enough, Jim.

      No more videos on crematorium.

      What I want to know is the following:

      If they didn’t die, what happened to the Hungarian Jews?

      If you have proof they didn’t go to Birkenau, fine.
      Show me.

      If they were transported to Birkenau and then dispersed elsewhere, fine.
      Show me.

      That goes for Talbot or any other denier out there.

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 7:08 pm

  2. Like I was there and I know…..

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 3:01 pm

    • I’m not saying you were there, Jim.

      But, surely some “revisionist…….scholar” has the answers. Surely some “scholar” uncovered a paper trail showing where these hapless Jews went.

      Should be fairly easy to find, correct?

      I’m not asking to know where all of them went,just a substantial portion.

      Let’s say, 80%?

      Maybe, 70%?

      I’ll tell you what, just give me proof where a lot of them went.

      I expect that a small percentage of those Jews that didn’t die were transported out so I want more than just a few.

      Just remember, I’m tired of rhetoric and mocking.

      I want hard proof that a large percentage of those Hungarian Jews were transferred out from Birkenau to other camps.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 3:13 pm

  3. OT

    There was some discussion before re Jews as a race/distinct religio-ethnic group vs Judaism as (only) a religion:

    Times of Israel — Russian-speakers who want to make aliya could need DNA testPrime Minister’s Office says would-be immigrants from former Soviet Union may be asked to prove Jewish bloodlineA number of people from the former Soviet Union wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness, the Prime Minister’s Office said Sunday.

    Comment by eah — February 27, 2016 @ 3:47 am

    • “Times of Israel — Russian-speakers who want to make aliya could need DNA test — Prime Minister’s Office says would-be immigrants from former Soviet Union may be asked to prove Jewish bloodline — A number of people from the former Soviet Union wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness, the Prime Minister’s Office said Sunday.”

      While this strikes me as racist, it’s a little ridiculous considering that Jews share genetic markers with other Middle Eastern people.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 5:10 am

  4. FG writes;- “According to the Auschwitz Museum, 434,351 of these Hungarian Jews were not registered at Birkenau; instead, they were gassed immediately upon arrival. At the height of the deportation of the Hungarian Jews, during a 10 week period, up to 12,000 Jews were gassed and burned each day, according to the True Believer version of the Holocaust.”

    Well, it looks as if “the True Believers” will have to prepare themselves for yet another change in the holocaust narrative, because the Auschwitz Museum today is saying that “from mid-May to the start of July 1944 some 420,000 Jews were transported to Auschwitz. ( note – this is the total number who arrived there, not just those who weren’t registered.) This change comes about because they claim that they have “recently discovered documents from the notes of a Kapo who worked in the Canada Section of Birkenau”.

    This Kapo claims that 52,000 Jewish men, and probably a similar amount of women, were not “gassed” immediately upon arrival; and that up to 50,000 of them were transported on to camps inside Germany. So, therefore, the Auschwitz Museum is now claiming that just 325 to 330,000 Jews were not registered at Birkenau and were immediately sent to the gas chambers.

    That’s a cool 100,000 souls who have simply been abandoned! So, continue to watch this space, folks, for the ever-shrinking holocaust.

    Comment by Talbot — February 26, 2016 @ 12:43 pm

    • FG writes;- “According to the Auschwitz Museum, 434,351 of these Hungarian Jews were not registered at Birkenau; instead, they were gassed immediately upon arrival. At the height of the deportation of the Hungarian Jews, during a 10 week period, up to 12,000 Jews were gassed and burned each day, according to the True Believer version of the Holocaust.”

      “Well, it looks as if “the True Believers” will have to prepare themselves for yet another change in the holocaust narrative, because the Auschwitz Museum today is saying that “from mid-May to the start of July 1944 some 420,000 Jews were transported to Auschwitz. ( note – this is the total number who arrived there, not just those who weren’t registered.) This change comes about because they claim that they have “recently discovered documents from the notes of a Kapo who worked in the Canada Section of Birkenau”.”

      Why would a Kapo have any idea how many Jews were transported in from Hungary?

      “This Kapo claims that 52,000 Jewish men, and probably a similar amount of women, were not “gassed” immediately upon arrival; and that up to 50,000 of them were transported on to camps inside Germany. So, therefore, the Auschwitz Museum is now claiming that just 325 to 330,000 Jews were not registered at Birkenau and were immediately sent to the gas chambers.
      “That’s a cool 100,000 souls who have simply been abandoned! So, continue to watch this space, folks, for the ever-shrinking holocaust.”

      I’d like to see a link for this story.
      Can you post it, please?

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 2:46 pm

      • Yes Jeff, the idea that a Kapo confined in the Canada block could be regarded as a reliable source, beats me too.
        But that’s what they claim – type in ‘Auschwitz Museum’, then ‘HISTORY’. Page down to ‘Online Lessons’ and select ‘Deportations of Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz’. Finally, scroll down to the second last section ‘The Number of Victims’.

        Cheers.

        Comment by Talbot — February 26, 2016 @ 4:29 pm

      • You wrote: “This Kapo claims that 52,000 Jewish men and probably a similar amount of women were not gassed immediately upon arrival and up to 50,000 of them were transported on to camps inside Germany”

        Auschwitz was the largest railroad hub in Europe. Trains could go anywhere in Europe from Auschwitz. It was similar to North Platte, Nebraska in America. Jews were sent to Auschwitz and transferred out, not gassed and burned.

        I wrote about this on this blog post:
        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/why-auschwitz-was-chosen-by-the-germans-as-the-location-of-their-largest-camp/

        Comment by furtherglory — February 27, 2016 @ 6:42 am

        • “Auschwitz was the largest railroad hub in Europe. Trains could go anywhere in Europe from Auschwitz. It was similar to North Platte, Nebraska in America. Jews were sent to Auschwitz and transferred out, not gassed and burned.”

          Specifically dealing with Hungarian Jews, where were they transferred out to?
          What camps or satellite camps received them if they did not die?
          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 7:29 am

        • “Auschwitz was the largest railroad hub in Europe. Trains could go anywhere in Europe from Auschwitz. It was similar to North Platte, Nebraska in America. Jews were sent to Auschwitz and transferred out, not gassed and burned.”

          Specifically dealing with Hungarian Jews, where were they transferred out to?
          What camps or satellite camps received them if they did not die?
          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 7:29 am

          • How many Hungarian Jews do you think died in Auschwitz, Jeff?

            Comment by Talbot — February 27, 2016 @ 7:36 am

            • I think it depends on what researcher you read but I would say anywhere in the range of 300,000-400,000.
              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 7:42 am

              • Exactly, there is no definitive answer is there – “it depends on what researcher you read”. If some researcher comes along and says 25,000, then than can be accepted, or if somebody else says 550,000 then that’s OK too. No one needs to produce any evidence as to how many trains arrived at Auschwitz, and how many passengers disembarked, or where they went afterwards.

                As I may have said before regarding this holocaust – how long is a piece of string?

                Comment by Talbot — February 27, 2016 @ 8:11 am

                • “Exactly, there is no definitive answer is there – “it depends on what researcher you read”. If some researcher comes along and says 25,000, then than can be accepted, or if somebody else says 550,000 then that’s OK too. No one needs to produce any evidence as to how many trains arrived at Auschwitz, and how many passengers disembarked, or where they went afterwards.”

                  Ok, then. You tell me, proof included, what happened to the Hungarian Jews transported to Birkenau.

                  What I want to know, specifically, are the camps these Jews were transported to. Schedules would be nice, but not necessary. I also want to know numbers, even incomplete numbers will do.

                  Take your time. I will wait.

                  “As I may have said before regarding this holocaust – how long is a piece of string?”

                  I think the string you are talking about is the chain that deniers are yanking.

                  You see, if there is proof I am willing to listen.
                  However, what I see is this:
                  There was no systematic plan by the Nazi government to murder the Jews (bold denier statement).

                  However, the only thing I do see is a lot of speculation.
                  “Well, we think the Nazis pushed all of these Jews East.”

                  No proof of this, just speculation. Not even the esteemed Jett Rucker has an answer.
                  So, why should I believe any of it?

                  Let’s go further.

                  “The Nazis didn’t murder the Hungarian Jews.”

                  Ok. I accept that Auschwitz was a concentration camp, a labor camp and a transit camp.

                  Fine. If the Hungarian Jews weren’t gassed, where did they go?

                  The Nazis deported these Jews to Birkenau in the Spring and Summer of 1944.

                  What happened to them if they didn’t die? Where did they go? Where is the proof?

                  I look forward to your answer.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 1:43 pm

                • Just a question is where did the Hungarians go. Did they have to go anywhere maybe they didn’t go anywhere maybe they want you to think they went somewhere they just vanished like the rest of the six million

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 1:50 pm

                • “Just a question is where did the Hungarians go. Did they have to go anywhere maybe they didn’t go anywhere maybe they want you to think they went somewhere they just vanished like the rest of the six million”

                  Well, it’s easier to conceal them if they are dead.

                  Jim, I’m tired of the speculative BS. The Nazis deported the Hungarian Jews to Birkenau in the Spring and Summer of 1944. If they didn’t die, where did they go?
                  The Nazis no longer had access to the wide open spaces of the Soviet Union so that’s not even a (speculative) option.
                  It’s over 400,000 people. Auschwitz didn’t have the space to absorb that amount of people. If they didn’t die, where did they go?
                  Give me an answer.
                  Or, admit you don’t know.
                  If you can’t say then Holocaust denial is all speculative crap with no proof to back it up.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

                • But Jeff – Have you got any definitive evidence that 300?, 400? or 500,000? Jews were deported to Auschwitz from Hungary in the first place? Are you absolutely certain that these huge totals are correct to begin with? Are there any lists of names of people who were deported, and can we find their former addresses in the villages and towns where they originated? Do we know where they were deported from, and what date they were dispatched? Do we know for certain that all the transports went to Auschwitz – because the only records in existence are those who were registered there ( which is quite logical of course – because you wouldn’t be able to register people who never arrived there in the first place!)

                  To me, there just doesn’t seem to be enough proof that this number of people ever arrived at Auschwitz – and even you have to rely on researchers who have differing opinions about the matter. Why were no railway personnel ever interviewed or interrogated to verify the facts about train movements. There must have been countless numbers of these people – from staff who scheduled the trains, to operatives such as locomotive engineers, train guards, station masters and signalmen. I’m afraid there’s a massive gaping hole in the testimony here – and I, for one, am not prepared to accept half-baked evidence that originates from the piss-poor quality of the investigations that took place back in 1945-46.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 28, 2016 @ 3:52 pm

                • Read this, Talbot.

                  http://www.zchor.org/hungaria.htm

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 5:20 pm

                • Great link Jeff now you have to explain how they just went all poof with no trace and they all disappeared There are two sides of the story people being killed and what happened to them after and if you can’t figure out what happened to them after then your story doesn’t make sense.
                  You have to be able to make sense of them being killed there’s no way they could have been killed in that short amount of time by the methods they say.
                  And after they were killed getting rid of all the remains with no trace whatsoever poof vanish..gone with the wind.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 5:29 pm

                • Read this, Jim:
                  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/furnace-capacity-analysis.html

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 5:44 pm

                • This:
                  https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocTest1.htm

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 5:49 pm

                • Jeff this stuff is so full of b******* it’s hard for me to even have a straight face in reply to conveyor belt comment please where was that. The squirrels running the line must have been off that day.
                  Now watch the process here with a modern version of a crematorium and all the ashes left over now multiply that times hundreds of thousands or millions, what do you think, you think it could be done without a trace don’t think so.
                  I am looking at your links and they are just so laughable it’s hard to believe that people believe this stuff because they contradict something else someone else said so you have all these people saying different things happened. You can’t have several different views of how something went down and that’s your problem you have.
                  .

                  This is just one body…imagine Millions!

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 6:06 pm

                • You are mistaking crematoria with incinerators.
                  Modern crematorium are designed to burn one body and keep the ashes separate for the family’s relatives.
                  The Nazis didn’t care about that.
                  You didn’t give me the proof I wanted.
                  I want to know what happened to the Hungarian Jews.
                  Show me proof they didn’t die.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 6:25 pm

                • Some info about cremations

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 6:17 pm

                • And this:

                  http://isurvived.org/letter-AuschwitzCapacity.html

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 5:53 pm

                • Enough with the show and tell from my end, Talbot and Jim.

                  It’s put up or shut up time from deniers.

                  I want documented proof, like what I showed you.

                  Dates, transport times, whatever you have I want to see it.

                  No more speculation.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 5:56 pm

                • I read the info. on “http://www.zchor.org/hungaria.htm” website, and although full of words, it remains unconvincing to me.

                  Firstly; Michael Honey – the author – is a Czech Jew who went through the Nazi KZ system himself – so he is not really an impartial source for any independent person to accept at face value. Methinks he is a guy with an agenda to push.

                  Secondly; Mr Honey’s evidence seems to centre around two lists which he makes a brave attempt to marry together. The first list consists of the railway records at Kosice Station, which names the origin of each train that passed through, and the number of people on board. Yes, I basically accept this list, there is no question that trains full of Jewish deportees came from Hungary up to Auschwitz – and undoubtedly many of them passed through Kosice.

                  The second list is extremely doubtful in my eyes. It was prepared by a Kapo, named Leo Glaser who claims he worked in the clothing department(?) on the ramp at Birkenau and witnessed the selections. But even if he did, then he wouldn’t be able to fully count the number of transports arriving day and night, because he would be working a shift, and be off duty for at least half the time. And in addition, although he was on the ramp witnessing the selections, he wouldn’t be able to count the number of Jews with any kind of accuracy, nor where they were being sent.

                  Thirdly; and this is really the killer blow for me. Because Mr Honey makes this incredible statement;- “For reasons which are not explained, the Auschwitz Chronicle becomes very sparse in data on the Hungarian Action.” In other words, the official account is sadly lacking, and we have to rely on dear old Kapo Glaser – who himself is hardly an impartial witness.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 28, 2016 @ 7:07 pm

                • Fine.

                  Then prove otherwise.

                  I’ve showed you my documentation.

                  Now show me yours.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 7:11 pm

                • I read the “Holocaust Controversies” Blog, and once again it relies heavily on the testimony of Kapo Leo Glaser. It would also appear the “Holocaust Chronicles” is not an official publication at all, but an account by somebody called Danuta Czech, who I’ve only heard about vaguely before, so I can’t make any assessment of his or her reliability as a witness or chronicler.

                  But the HC Blog states;- “On the other hand, many transports listed in Glaser’s list are not mentioned by Czech and vice versa. This does not prove that Glaser’s list is unreliable, because we should not assume that we have full information about the transports.”

                  It goes on in rather a muddle to say;- “Since we know that Glaser did not mention many actual transports in his list, can we assume that his list of Hungarian transports is complete? The most complete list until now – the list of the Hungarian transports passing through Kosice – contains 136 entries for the period of 14 May to 9 July. Glaser’s list has 142 relevant entries for the period of 16 May to 11 July Thus, Glaser’s information seems to be the most complete information available about the Hungarian transports.”

                  So once again, we have real, credible evidence of transports coming up from Hungary to Auschwitz, but how many people were on board these trains is still very hazy and murky indeed. And to say that most of them were exterminated in Birkenau is just an assertion – a belief – and no more.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 28, 2016 @ 7:38 pm

                • Fine.

                  Prove otherwise.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 7:40 pm

                • So, we have proof that the transports arrived.

                  Show me where they were dispersed to if the deportees did not die.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 7:42 pm

                • No Jeff – it is you who are claiming that these Hungarian Jews died in Auschwitz. It is incumbent upon you to say how many died in total, and how many were killed per day. You have to provide us with a detailed description of a viable weapon of mass murder and a credible method of disposing of the corpses. This you have not done to our satisfaction, and until you do this, then it is quite reasonable for the rest of us to look for more credible solutions to what happened back in 1944.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 28, 2016 @ 9:26 pm

                • “No Jeff – it is you who are claiming that these Hungarian Jews died in Auschwitz.”

                  You say they didn’t.

                  Fine.

                  What happened to them?

                  “It is incumbent upon you to say how many died in total, and how many were killed per day. You have to provide us with a detailed description of a viable weapon of mass murder and a credible method of disposing of the corpses.”

                  This has been done, over and over again.
                  The Nazis transported these Jews to Birkenau.
                  They selected a small percentage to work and gassed the rest in gas chambers originally designed as gas chambers.
                  They burned them in the crematorium, when this didn’t suffice the Nazis burned the bodies in open air pits.
                  That’s the way history records it.
                  Yours is the contrary opinion.
                  It is UP TO YOU to prove otherwise.

                  “This you have not done to our satisfaction,”

                  I really don’t care about your “satisfaction.”

                  “and until you do this, then it is quite reasonable for the rest of us to look for more credible solutions to what happened back in 1944.”

                  Fine.

                  What are your solutions?

                  More specifically, why can none of you answer the questions I have?

                  It’s really quite simple:

                  The Nazis deported the Hungarian Jews to Birkenau in 1944.

                  Do you dispute that?
                  Fine.
                  Tell me what happened and prove it.

                  The Nazis then subjected these Jews to selection. Those not selected were murdered in gas chambers.

                  Do you dispute that?
                  Fine.
                  Tell me what happened and prove it.

                  If you are saying that the Jews did not go to Birkenau, tell me where they went and prove it.

                  If they went to Birkenau and were dispersed from there, tell me where they went and prove it.

                  No more mocking, no more conjecture or guesses.

                  Tell me what happened and prove it.

                  I’ve given you my documentation on this matter.
                  Provide me with counter documentation.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 9:48 pm

              • Supposedly gassed and cremated in 10 weeks all these Hungarian Jews nonsense. Couldn’t happen.
                Another feat that would have to be put in the Ripley’s Believe it or not file.

                JR

                Comment by jrizoli — February 27, 2016 @ 8:19 am

                • Well, the Rwandan Genocide occurred in about 3 months and resulted between 500,000-1,000,000 deaths.

                  The murderers used machetes and firearms.

                  Are you saying the advanced, technologically superior couldn’t do the same?
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 6:23 pm

                • Jeff….. I have a problem wih all these high figures no matter who is swinging them people throw figures around like toothpicks I don’t know how they can come up with them.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 27, 2016 @ 6:32 pm

                • One of my very first blog posts, 5 years ago, was about Genocide: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/rwanda/

                  Comment by furtherglory — February 28, 2016 @ 6:56 am

                • jrizoli writes;- “I have a problem with all these high figures no matter who is swinging them, people throw figures around like toothpicks I don’t know how they can come up with them.”

                  Yes – quite! I remember during the build up to the Iraq war in 2003 how we were bombarded with propaganda of how Saddam Hussein had massacred up to 3 million of his own people – over a million Kurds, and hundreds of thousands of Shi’tes and Sunnis in different operations over the years. Its true, there was an ugly war crime at the town of Halabja where the Iraqi army used poison gas, and the numbers killed there was estimated at 5,000 – but probably even that number is highly inflated.

                  After the coalition forces had invaded Iraq, then teams were sent out to search for the mass graves of these alleged massacres. But all they found were scattered gravesites consisting of no more than dozen-or-so bodies in each – maybe sometimes up to 100, but certainly no more than that. And these victims could well be the result of inter-communal fighting, rather than having anything to do with Saddam, because Iraq society is very tribal in nature.

                  The only mass site they ever claimed to have found was near the town of Hillah, in central Iraq, where they breathlessly announced that a pit containing over 15,000 bodies had been exhumed. But this number quickly became 7,500, and then rapidly melted away to 5,000, then 3,000, followed by 1,500. It was at that point, that local people came and commandeered the site and removed the hundred-or-so bodies that were really there, and carried them back to their own cemeteries.

                  All in all – much ado about next to nothing! I suspect that the Rwanda numbers are grossly over-estimated as well – just like the holocaust.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 28, 2016 @ 6:08 am

                • “Supposedly gassed and cremated in 10 weeks all these Hungarian Jews nonsense. Couldn’t happen.
                  Another feat that would have to be put in the Ripley’s Believe it or not file.”

                  Fine, then.

                  No more bullshit, Jim. No more speculation.

                  Tell me, exactly, where the Hungarian Jews went after the Nazis deported them.

                  I want camp names and numbers.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 1:47 pm

        • FURTHERGLORY. The majority of Hungarian Jews deported in 1944 had been people unfit for work what meant for extermination by forced labor. So they had been suddenly exterminated by gassing. A certain number of those sent to forced labor survived; do someone regret their survival?

          Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 27, 2016 @ 9:35 am

  5. The damned Shoah Business – Tourist Division – turned a place of horror and sorrow into a tourist actraction only for making profit exploiting the pains and memory of the Shoah victims.

    Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 26, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

    • Having people see it has value, Wolf. As more time passes and the survivors/witnesses/perpetrators pass away it will gain even more value.

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 12:25 pm

      • There is NO value to lies. As the older HoloHuxsters die off hopefully their lies will too, but I doubt it.
        Their tall tales will be more acceptable than the Bible.
        When it come to truth vs lies people will always chose the lies. More exciting…..

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 1:03 pm

        • The first casualty of war is THE TRUTH. I might add, in ANY skirmish, TRUTH takes a serious hit when it comes to the lie and the bigger the lie, the more it is believed. (Didn’t one of the fathers of communism say that?!!!) And by the way, to the holohoax worshipper, the lies ARE their Bible.

          Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 1:05 pm

      • No business like SHOAH business – yep – value for the extortionists as they hope the lie will outlive the spinmeisters. I hope the whole thing just kind of collapses on itself like the Soviet Union did, giving relief to tens of millions.

        Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 1:17 pm

        • Here is what a major HoloHuxster writer said about Auschwitz…
          “It is best probably to allow the site to fall apart”..said Robert Jan van Pelt, a prominent architectural historian who likens Auschwitz to a nuclear bomb site.
          end…

          The Jews should start living and stop lying. Get over it you have made billions on your lies. Time to say enough is enough…
          To Jews there is never “enough”….they got to bleed it dry to the last drop.
          I say lets bulldoze the place and build a nice fun park not a Horror Disneyland Park.

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 1:28 pm

          • You said: “To Jews there is never “enough”….they got to bleed it dry to the last drop.” You just described the nature of a true parasite. I’ll leave it there.

            Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 1:45 pm

    • Wolf…..Auschwitz and the other camps were NOT places of horror unless you were a bad Jew disciplined for doing something wrong.
      For the most part the Jews in the camps if they minded their own business and did their jobs correctly they made made it home for lox and bagels.
      The camps might not of been the best places to park their asses but they did have 3 meals a day, a roof over their head and out of the way of the war.
      They actually were spared the horror of those outside the camp who were murdered by the Soviets and allied bombings.
      The Horror Disneyland Camps were made after the war because the figured out that death sells and why not jump on the commercial horror bandwagon and make some serious shekels.
      So again the Jews found a way to turn a not so pleasant experience (working for the Germans) into a big money maker when they left the camps.
      Many went on the write fictitious books and got paid good money on the lecturer circuit spilling their pitiful fictitious horror stories on Elm St..
      Any questions?

      Jim Rizoli
      CCFIILE.COM
      RIZOLITV.COM
      IHR.ORG
      VHO.ORG

      Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 12:27 pm

      • “Wolf…..Auschwitz and the other camps were NOT places of horror unless you were a bad Jew disciplined for doing something wrong.
        For the most part the Jews in the camps if they minded their own business and did their jobs correctly they made made it home for lox and bagels.”

        I’m interested in knowing where you got that information.

        “The camps might not of been the best places to park their asses but they did have 3 meals a day, a roof over their head and out of the way of the war.”

        What were the inmates fed?
        Were they in fact fed three times a day?
        Were there differences in the way the Jews were fed and the regular inmates were fed?
        Also, were there differences in the way the Germans were fed, the Poles were fed, the Soviets were fed, etc.?

        “They actually were spared the horror of those outside the camp who were murdered by the Soviets and allied bombings.”

        When the Germans bombed towns and cities in Poland, the Netherlands, France, Britain, Yugoslavia, Greece and the Soviet Union, was this also murder? Or does it only count if the allies did it?

        “The Horror Disneyland Camps were made after the war because the figured out that death sells and why not jump on the commercial horror bandwagon and make some serious shekels.”

        I’m not sure what you mean by that, are you saying that the Germans didn’t build the camps, the allies did or that the Germans did build camps and the allies modified them in some way?

        “So again the Jews found a way to turn a not so pleasant experience (working for the Germans) into a big money maker when they left the camps.”

        So, it was OK for the Germans to imprison men, women and children in these camps, even though they committed no crimes?

        What Jews now own the camps in question?

        “Many went on the write fictitious books and got paid good money on the lecturer circuit spilling their pitiful fictitious horror stories on Elm St..”

        Do you have any lists on Jews who wrote books and how much money they made from these books?

        “Any questions?”

        See above.

        Jeff

        Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 12:54 pm

        • Jews who wrote books? Seriously. The classic scam artist – ELI WIESEL (pronounced Weasel) who claimed to be in 3 camps at once, who did NOT have a tattoo, has made a fortune on his NIGHT and other fairy tales, to begin with. Those in the camps ate the same, except, no doubt, the Kapos – jewish thugs and Sonderkommandos who threw others before them so they could live another week (Son of Saul). No, it wasn’t meant to be a resort – their leadership threw them under the bus by declaring NOT ONCE BUT TWICE war on Germany. The Muslims in our country haven’t begun to do half of what the jews did in Germany, and we are led to believe they need to be strung up (don’t trot out the jewish instigated incident of 9-11). There was CLEAR justification for getting the jews OUT OF THE REICH, which was the intent (Transfer Agreement) before the war and the ‘Final Solution’ after the war. The nonsense about extermination – not even possible, but sheer fabrication trotted out in the 60s and 70s to rake in the big bucks – ka-ching!

          Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 1:03 pm

          • Lets look at the liars….for another review…
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 1:14 pm

          • “Those in the camps ate the same, except, no doubt, the Kapos – jewish thugs and Sonderkommandos who threw others before them so they could live another week”

            I’m confused, are you now saying you believe that the Nazis did kill the Jews?
            Jeff

            Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 7:32 am

        • Fake Holocaust memroirs….there are plenty tho discuss…..
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 1:09 pm

          • “Most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”

            –Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950,
            Vol. 12, p. 65

            Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 3:27 pm

            • dianeking. This applies to all the Negationist writings and lectures and all your comments too. What we need is serious historical study of backgrounds – economical and social problems in Central-East Europe in the twenthies and thirties of last century.

              Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 27, 2016 @ 1:59 am

              • You are absolutely right Dr. Murmelstein – we need a serious historical study of backgrounds – economical and social problems in Central-East Europe in the 1920’s and 30’s. But, alas, our once respected and independent universities have become so commercialised by money, and politicised by “political correctness” that it is very unlikely that any academic historian will be commissioned – let alone given the financial resources – to research into this dull but essential area of history.

                No – what modern universities want are never ending investigations into the holocaust itself – certainly not any background research, or putting the events of WW2 into any sort of historical context.

                Comment by Talbot — February 27, 2016 @ 8:45 am

                • After reading the plot I think about the burning of the bodies…..too bad they didn’t do some more research on that one….burning bodies would take quite a long time as they were doing it. People just don’t know the logistics of completing such a humongous task. How much wood you would need etc…..to burn one body takes around 400-500 lbs of wood.
                  So how many were killed? How long did it take? Where did they get the wood? Were were the gigantic wood piles stored? Just dealing with bringing the wood over would be a big task and many would have to be involved. Where were the wood trucks loading and unloading? The amount of ash left over from the wood and bodies would be huge also. Did they wheel barrow the ash away? The bones of the bodies would have to be ground up where was that process done, what did the bone crushing machine look like? There is so much wrong with the official Jewish version you would have to be pretty stupid to believe it all.
                  But then again this is Hollywood and anything can happen in a movie……like the disappearance of 870,000 jews in Treblinka…..No trace left, gone, poof, into the air.
                  All buried, dug up and cremated on rail train grids, with wood for the burning source. How much wood for 870,000 bodies 870,000 x 500lbs yikes! No trace of any of that either. The numbers are staggering but then again poof, no trace, gone with the wind. Treblinka happened because it happened. Yup another great answer.

                  How about you HoloHuxsters that are peddling this nonsense show me how all went down with facts like where did all the wood come from? What National Park full of tress did they cut them down from. No mention of that, which would of been a huge logging enterprise in itself.. with hundreds of people involved. Funny no one mentions the trees???? You do need wood to make the fire you know. Oops, must of slipped their mind that day. They must of been on vacation that month.
                  But the answer is The Holocaust happened because it happened. Yup that sure satisfies me…..The sky is blue because it is blue……yup. makes sense to me!

                  For the record….
                  “The cremation is supposed to have taken place in the time period between April and the end of July 1943,430 so that nearly all 870,000 bodies are supposed to have been incinerated within 122 days, i.e. 7,000 per day on two grates, or 3,500 per day per grate. How large was such a grate? In the version of Wiernik‘s work One year in Treblinka published by A. Donat, one reads: “This is the way in which he got the Inferno started: He put into operation an excavator which could dig up 3,000 corpses at one time. A fire grate made from railroad tracks was placed on concrete foundations 100 to 150 meters in length. The workers piled the corpses on the grate and set them on fire.” The particulars given here are clearly the fruit of a later insertion, since in the American translation of Wiernick’s writing compiled in 1944 it simply says: “This is the way he got the hell started. He put a machine for exhuming the corpses into operation, which could, in one motion, dig up many, many dead bodies. A fire grate made of railway ties was laid out on cement foundations, and workmen had to pile the corpses on the grating and set them on fire” If one takes into consideration the fact that 3,000 bodies take up a volume of about (3,000×0.045 =) 135 m3, the claim, according to which the shovel of the excavator could be loaded with 3,000 bodies at a time, will evoke only amusement. The length of the grate (100 to 150 m) contradicts the trial documents. According to Arad, the grate was 30 m wide, but this too contradicts the verdict of the Düsseldorf Jury Court, according to which the grate consisted of “5 to 6 train rails of about 25 to 30 m in length.” Since emaciated bodies, which easily disintegrated, were burned on both grates, the gap between two rails had to be small and could at most be permitted to amount to 50 to 60 cm, so that one can assume a width of the grate of approximately three meters. The width given by Feig – one meter – is obviously impossible. Thus, the two grates cannot have been larger than 30 × 3 × 0.76 m each. As already explained, each grate must have burned 3,500 bodies every single day for 122 days”. and that is just a snipit of impossibilities…..

                  Ya right……in what horror movie did you see this…..

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — February 27, 2016 @ 9:41 am

                • TALBOT. At due time I would have submitted a doctor dissertation about the economical and social causes of WWII. Unfortunately the professor for Economic History had been Amintore Fanfani, a clerico-antisemite, who in 1943 betrayed Mussolini and joined the Cristian Democrat Party where he climbed to high level positions. At his lectures he spoke about the non sense of Jews and Calvinists as inventors of capitalism. So i had to look for another subject for my dissertation.

                  Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 27, 2016 @ 9:51 am

      • jrizzoli. There had not been three meals a day in Lager but only one food distribution at evening after the return from forced labor. And where do you park your ass when writing non sense, as usual?

        Comment by Wolf Murmelstein — February 27, 2016 @ 9:42 am

        • The maids who made the beds and fetched clean towels told me that….
          It’s just as believable as your Holohoax horror show nonsense….

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — February 27, 2016 @ 9:47 am

  6. Well, FG, “garbage in, garbage out”. What do you expect. It isn’t WORTHY of respect!

    Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 10:22 am

  7. The Ballad of Big John (Demjanjuk)

    Every morning at the camp, you could see him arrive.
    He stood 6 foot 6 and weighed 245.
    Kind of broad at the shoulders, narrow at the hip.
    And everyone knew you didn’t give no lip to Big John.

    Big John
    Big John
    Big Bad John

    Nobody seemed to know where John called home
    He just showed up one day wearing the skull and bones.
    He didn’t say much, a strong silent goy,
    And if you spoke at all, you just said “Oy!” to Big John.

    Somebody said John came from the Ukraine,
    Where the Marxist dialetic drives a man insane,
    And a crashing blow that was heavy as lead
    Sent the peyos* flying off a Heredi’s head.

    Big John
    Big John
    Big bad John

    Then came the day when a B-17,
    Dropped a load on the camp, and folks started to scream.
    The barracks were a-burnin’ and the showers stuck fast,
    And the SS thought they’d gassed their last,

    Cept John.

    Through the dust and the smoke of this man made hell,
    Walked a giant of a man that the kapos knew well.
    He grabbed up a canister of Zyklon B
    And stood there alone like a big oak tree.

    Big John
    Big John
    Big Bad John

    Then with all of his might, he gave it a heave,
    While the commandant shouted out “Ach du lieb!”
    As the canister bounced over a wheelbarrow rut
    And came to a stop in Simon Wiesenthal’s butt.

    Big John
    Big John
    Bad John

    Now they never re-opened that old death camp,
    They just placed a marble plaque near the loading ramp.
    These few words are carved out by hand,
    On the dock in Munich stands a big, big man, Big John.

    Big John,
    Big John,
    Big bad “Ivan the Terrible” John.

    *side curls

    Comment by who dares wings — February 26, 2016 @ 9:33 am

    • That was clever.
      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 11:17 am

    • Brilliant, who dares wings – well composed!

      Comment by Talbot — February 26, 2016 @ 11:38 am

  8. There WERE no plans for exterminating the Jews, finalized or otherwise.

    Comment by Jett Rucker — February 26, 2016 @ 8:38 am

    • Exactly. Thanks, Jett. Nice song, WRONG lyrics because WRONG narrative.

      Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 10:23 am

  9. “Himmler realized that Birkenau was an ideal location for transporting people by rail from all over Europe, although the plans for exterminating the Jews were not finalized until the Nazis were confident that they would win their war against the Soviet Union”.

    There was NO extermination plan just emigration. The Germans wanted the traitorous, seditious, subversive,vicious, and psycopathic jews out of the country.
    As we look back I wish there was an extermination plan….Just sayin….LOL

    Jim Rizoli
    CCFIILE.COM
    RIZOLITV.COM

    Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 8:31 am

    • “There was NO extermination plan just emigration. The Germans wanted the traitorous, seditious, subversive,vicious, and psycopathic jews out of the country.”

      Which country, Jim? All of them, or just Germany?
      Or, all of the lands occupied by Germans, or occupied lands they intended to annex?

      As far as the “emigration” thing, where were they supposed to emigrate TOO?

      As far as the Hungarian Jews (just as an example), where did they go? We know they went to Auschwitz Birkenau. If the Nazis did not gas them, where did they wind up?

      Oh, good morning.

      “As we look back I wish there was an extermination plan….Just sayin….LOL”

      I know you want to whack all the Jews, Jim.
      Hermie is right there besides you.

      Which makes it all the more incomprehensible, you and the others being Holocaust deniers.
      I would think you would shout your appreciation and approval to the stars.
      Yay, Hitler!!!!!!!! Why didn’t you make sure all of them were dead????!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!
      You understand that what you long to do the Nazis had the power to put in action, right?

      Jeff

      Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 8:43 am

      • The Holocaust is mainly about the Hungarian Jews. I wrote about what happened to them on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/how-many-hungarian-jews-were-murdered-in-the-holocaust/

        Comment by furtherglory — February 26, 2016 @ 8:51 am

      • Jeff there weren’t that many Jews around most of them left. All the figures are way off.
        If the Germans won the war they would of shipped all the remainder of them out to Madagascar or some other Hell whole they would of corrupted.
        If you want a country brought down to nothing invite the Jews in. They will destroy the Goyim first then devour themselves.
        The worst anti-semite is a jew.

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — February 26, 2016 @ 8:52 am

        • “Jeff there weren’t that many Jews around most of them left. All the figures are way off.”

          Jim, most of the Jews at the time of the war lived in Europe. Most of those Jews lived in Eastern Europe. There were over 3 million Jews in Poland alone at the start of the war.

          “If the Germans won the war they would of shipped all the remainder of them out to Madagascar”

          But the Germans didn’t win the war.

          “or some other Hell whole they would of corrupted.”

          Huh?

          “If you want a country brought down to nothing invite the Jews in. They will destroy the Goyim first then devour themselves.”

          That’s odd, the German Jews were, for the most part, good citizens, well assimilated, patriotic. Are you talking about non-German Jews?
          One of the things that surprised the Germans when they invaded Poland was the local Jews were very hard working.

          “The worst anti-semite is a jew.”

          Whatever you say, Jim.

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 11:15 am

        • I wanted you to see the distribution of Jews in Europe before the war, Jim.

          http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/media_nm.php?ModuleId=10005143&MediaId=358

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 1:13 pm

          • I think the map is a bit off, especially suspicious since it comes from the illustrious and inglorious holocost museum.

            Benton Bradberry: Well, Mr. White, 4.39 million of them wound up collecting life-time pensions from the German government as "Holocaust survivors," even though no more than 4.5 million Jews ever came under German control. Census figures show that they were all still there after the war. “;…according to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. If the German government under Adolf Hitler had – as alleged – murdered six million Jews those losses should have been reflected in the Jewish population numbers quoted in the World Almanac. The suspicions raised by above numbers concerning the veracity of the allegations made against the Hitler government are confirmed by the official three-volume report by the International…
            Really…. 9 million Jews in the Reich? There were only 500,000 Jews in Germany and 190,000 in Austria when Hitler became chancellor in 1933. By the time the war started, due to emigration, only 160,000 Jews remained in Germany and 40,000 in Austria.

            Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 3:20 pm

            • Your author needs to get a new schtick.
              The World Almanac Gambit is older than Arthur Butz.

              http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/worldalmanac.html

              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 4:22 pm

            • “I think the map is a bit off, especially suspicious since it comes from the illustrious and inglorious holocost museum.”

              Please enlighten me, then. It is a well established fact that the majority of the world’s Jews lived in Europe before the war broke out. Do you dispute this?

              “Benton Bradberry:”

              Why do you attach so much weight in what this man has to say?

              “Well, Mr. White, 4.39 million of them wound up collecting life-time pensions from the German government as “Holocaust survivors,”

              I’d like to see where he came up with those numbers.

              ” even though no more than 4.5 million Jews ever came under German control.”

              There were 3 million Jews in Poland alone.
              Again, I would like to know how he reached this figure.

              “Census figures show that they were all still there after the war. “…according to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. If the German government under Adolf Hitler had – as alleged – murdered six million Jews those losses should have been reflected in the Jewish population numbers quoted in the World Almanac. The suspicions raised by above numbers concerning the veracity of the allegations made against the Hitler government are confirmed by the official three-volume report by the International…”

              I’ve posted a rebuttal to this. Seriously, Mr. Bradberry needs an update.

              “Really…. 9 million Jews in the Reich? There were only 500,000 Jews in Germany and 190,000 in Austria when Hitler became chancellor in 1933. By the time the war started, due to emigration, only 160,000 Jews remained in Germany and 40,000 in Austria.”

              Crap, are you serious?
              Most of the German Jews that emigrated from Germany wound up in countries CONQUERED by Germany during the war.
              The rest of this statement is blatantly dishonest.
              Obviously Mr. Bradberry is being deceitful because he is completely disregarding the fact that Germany, by the end of 1941, completely occupied Poland, a country with a population over 3 million Jews. In addition to that, by the end of 1942 Germany occupied Belorussia, the Ukraine and Southern Soviet Union, an area that held another 2 million Jews. Germany occupied Hungary in the Spring of 1944, bringing another half million Jews under their control. The Germans also occupied Greece, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Italy and France with their own populations of Jews.
              Good grief, it’s sad that people don’t know more about history to avoid getting taken in by charlatans like Benton Bradberry.

              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 4:39 pm

              • Jeff – you are often quoting this “over 3 million” figure for the number of Polish Jews who were caught up in the holocaust. But as I understand it, this comes from a 1931 census held in the pre-war Polish territorial area.

                Firstly; we don’t really know if the Germans were using the same criterion as this census for assessing who was Jewish and who was not.

                Secondly; The Germans didn’t arrive in Poland until September 1939 – so that’s eight years later, and during that period successive Polish governments increasingly became more anti-Jewish in tone as well as policy. We have to ask; did sizeable numbers of Jewish individuals – and entire families – decide to leave Poland for pastures new during this period ( such as Palestine, South America, etc.)

                Thirdly; Poland was split between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Once again, we don’t really know how many younger Jews living in the Soviet zone transferred voluntarily, or were deported eastwards into the heart of Russia or Soviet Central Asia. Even in the German occupied zone there were massive upheavals of populations – Germans, Poles and Jews were being shifted about here, there, and everywhere in 1939/1940 as the Nazis set about “Germanising” the former Polish regions surrounding Poznan and Danzig. In this massive transfer of people, it is quite possible that numbers of Jews slipped away, emigrated, hid, or obtained forged papers claiming they were Polish Christians. ( The latter did happen – especially among the more affluent Jews ).

                Fourthly; Although the Nazis started “ghettoising” Jews from September 1939, the ghettos were not all sealed until much later – thus it is possible that many of the younger and more able Jews slipped away and hid, or escaped into the Soviet zone.

                Fifthly; Upon the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, we don’t know how many Jews fled eastwards to escape the clutches of the Nazis.

                A few days ago, Further Glory wrote that there were up to 300,000 surviving Jews living in Poland immediately after the war. I found this number quite surprising – it would mean that no less than one one-tenth of this totemic 3,000,000 number were not “exterminated”. But we’ve always been led to believe that the number of Polish holocaust survivors was miniscule – around 10,000 or so.

                Comment by Talbot — February 27, 2016 @ 6:05 am

                • “Jeff – you are often quoting this “over 3 million” figure for the number of Polish Jews who were caught up in the holocaust. But as I understand it, this comes from a 1931 census held in the pre-war Polish territorial area.”

                  Fair enough.

                  “Firstly; we don’t really know if the Germans were using the same criterion as this census for assessing who was Jewish and who was not.”

                  The Germans used the same criteria as the Poles did.
                  Jewish communities in Poland were easy to locate, they were generally separated from the surrounding Gentile communities. Furtherglory also wrote about these communities.

                  “Secondly; The Germans didn’t arrive in Poland until September 1939 – so that’s eight years later, and during that period successive Polish governments increasingly became more anti-Jewish in tone as well as policy. We have to ask; did sizeable numbers of Jewish individuals – and entire families – decide to leave Poland for pastures new during this period ( such as Palestine, South America, etc.)”

                  How many emigrated during this point?
                  I don’t know but as this is your point I’ll let you look this up.
                  The British imposed a quota on Jewish immigrants to Palestine.

                  “Thirdly; Poland was split between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Once again, we don’t really know how many younger Jews living in the Soviet zone transferred voluntarily, or were deported eastwards into the heart of Russia or Soviet Central Asia. Even in the German occupied zone there were massive upheavals of populations – Germans, Poles and Jews were being shifted about here, there, and everywhere in 1939/1940 as the Nazis set about “Germanising” the former Polish regions surrounding Poznan and Danzig. In this massive transfer of people, it is quite possible that numbers of Jews slipped away, emigrated, hid, or obtained forged papers claiming they were Polish Christians. ( The latter did happen – especially among the more affluent Jews ).”

                  I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, however I don’t think the number would be that large. There is a limit to how many could slip away to someplace like the Soviet Union.
                  However, this is your point and I will let you look it up.

                  “Fourthly; Although the Nazis started “ghettoising” Jews from September 1939, the ghettos were not all sealed until much later – thus it is possible that many of the younger and more able Jews slipped away and hid, or escaped into the Soviet zone.”

                  Again, I don’t disagree but the number could not be that large.

                  “Fifthly; Upon the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, we don’t know how many Jews fled eastwards to escape the clutches of the Nazis.”

                  True. However, again, there is a limit.

                  “A few days ago, Further Glory wrote that there were up to 300,000 surviving Jews living in Poland immediately after the war. I found this number quite surprising – it would mean that no less than one one-tenth of this totemic 3,000,000 number were not “exterminated”. But we’ve always been led to believe that the number of Polish holocaust survivors was miniscule – around 10,000 or so.”

                  I don’t know where you got that information.
                  The numbers I’ve always seen say about 300,000 out of around 3.3 million before the war.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 6:44 am

                • Yes, thinking about it, I’ve probably picked the miniscule number of Polish survivors up from fairy-tale books and movies such Schindler’s List. Towards the end of the film, his workers in Bohemia are liberated by the Red Army, and they ask the Soviet officer on horseback if any Jews remain alive in Poland. But the officer deliberately does not respond, and thus we – the audience – are left with the impression that there are next to none left, but its too painful for them to hear the answer.

                  Comment by Talbot — February 27, 2016 @ 8:00 am

                • “Yes, thinking about it, I’ve probably picked the miniscule number of Polish survivors up from fairy-tale books and movies such Schindler’s List. Towards the end of the film, his workers in Bohemia are liberated by the Red Army, and they ask the Soviet officer on horseback if any Jews remain alive in Poland. But the officer deliberately does not respond, and thus we – the audience – are left with the impression that there are next to none left, but its too painful for them to hear the answer.”

                  I have no real interest in “historical” movies.
                  To me they are over-dramatized to bring in the average movie goer who has no real interest in history.
                  I also don’t read memoirs written by Holocaust survivors. I think interviewing them for research is a good idea but I don’t have any other interest.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — February 27, 2016 @ 8:16 am

      • It’s hard to account for people expelled by their own neighbors (justly or otherwise) and shipped off (forever?) to a wartime labor camp, especially if they afterwards emigrated to America or a new country in the Middle East, usually changing their names in the process. They did NOT enjoy the option of returning to where they came from, if only for the reason that their neighbors (remember the neighbors?) had long since appropriated their houses, possessions, livestock, and so on. The same thing happened to Germans expelled from today’s Poland, and even to Japanese interned in the United States.

        Back off on the exclamation points and question marks, too, Jeff. They make you look like an idiot.

        Comment by Jett Rucker — February 26, 2016 @ 8:58 am

        • “It’s hard to account for people expelled by their own neighbors (justly or otherwise) and shipped off (forever?) to a wartime labor camp, especially if they afterwards emigrated to America or a new country in the Middle East, usually changing their names in the process.”

          Oh, good. Maybe you know. Jim apparently does not, nor does it show up in any denier material I’ve ever read.

          What labor camps and where? When were these camps built and where were their locations? How were these camps supplied? What were the names of their commanders?
          I’m not talking about any camps in Poland. I’m talking where the Polish Jews were transited through the OR camps in the Spring, Summer and Fall of 1942 and the Spring and Summer of 1943.
          While I am asking questions, where were the Hungarian Jews sent, the ones transited through Birkenau?
          Surely you must have the answers, after all, you are one of the esteemed authors listed on Inconvenient Histories.

          “They did NOT enjoy the option of returning to where they came from, if only for the reason that their neighbors (remember the neighbors?) had long since appropriated their houses, possessions, livestock, and so on.”

          Why, certainly, that happened. This was especially the case in Poland, the few survivors that returned, or attempted to return, found open hostility and even attempts at murder. Or were actually murdered.
          Are you saying that 3,000,000 Polish Jews all tried to return to Poland and were turned away? Are there records of these 3,000,000 or so souls that tried to return? Or 2.5 million? Or 1 million?

          “The same thing happened to Germans expelled from today’s Poland, and even to Japanese interned in the United States.”

          I completely agree with the above statement. What happened to the Germans and the Japanese is and was a tragedy. At least the Japanese received some compensation, those Germans never did receive anything.

          “Back off on the exclamation points and question marks, too, Jeff. They make you look like an idiot.”

          Thanks for the unsolicited writing advice but I’ll continue to write in whatever fashion I choose.

          I look forward to your answers to my above questions.

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 9:36 am

          • No you don’t ‘appreciate an answer’, Jeff. We provide you answers, but YOU decide they aren’t the RIGHT answers. Seriously, WE DON’T care what happened to jews out of the transit camps. As Jim and others have said – they were distributed – went to the 4 winds and not in ash form (sheesh). They’ve changed their names, locations and are claiming victim status to the tune of a bazillion dollars in the reparations scam by the millions – seems the further away from the alleged holohoax, the more survivors there are. Maybe like mold spores in the dark, they just spontaneous arise from (even from ‘the ashes’ if you will). Now that IS a miracle or what!

            Comment by Diane King — February 26, 2016 @ 11:23 am

            • “No you don’t ‘appreciate an answer’, Jeff. We provide you answers, but YOU decide they aren’t the RIGHT answers.”

              No, that’s not it.
              What I want is an answer that I can research, something I can see where you are getting your information from.

              “Seriously, WE DON’T care what happened to jews out of the transit camps. As Jim and others have said – they were distributed – went to the 4 winds and not in ash form (sheesh).”

              But, WHERE? Somehow you need to account for them. If they aren’t dead, what happened to them?
              If you say they were “distributed” then you need to explain what happened. Otherwise you are guessing…and not very well.
              You see, if you tell me that logically this is what happened, then you need to account for the conditions in the Soviet Union at the time, not only the conditions under which these camps would be built but the military situation as well.

              “They’ve changed their names, locations and are claiming victim status to the tune of a bazillion dollars in the reparations scam by the millions”

              Be specific.
              What reparations scam? What year, how much, etc.

              “seems the further away from the alleged holohoax, the more survivors there are. Maybe like mold spores in the dark, they just spontaneous arise from (even from ‘the ashes’ if you will). Now that IS a miracle or what!”

              It would be a miracle-but again you need to be specific-what numbers, how much money, etc.

              I look forward to your reply.

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 11:41 am

        • Back off on the exclamation points and question marks, too, Jeff. They make you look like an idiot

          Jett I don’t think you should be giving literary advice to Jeff. I’ve tried reading your posts on CODOH and frankly i’m not impressed at all. Your posts are disjointed and your grasp of the written English language is not that good. Just an opinion but I used to teach English to non-English speakers – I can help if you like lol🙂

          Comment by srebrenica — February 28, 2016 @ 4:24 pm

          • I’ve noticed that the great Jett Rucker also has no proof of some sort of camp system in the East where the Jews were sent.

            Sad to see a denier fail. Oh well…..

            Comment by Jeff K. — February 28, 2016 @ 4:42 pm

            • That’s because 6 million Jews just want proof into nothing they all disappeared with no trace.
              Doesn’t that make more sense…..LOL

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — February 28, 2016 @ 4:45 pm

      • Jeff wrote: “Which makes it all the more incomprehensible, you and the others being Holocaust deniers. I would think you would shout your appreciation and approval to the stars.”

        Don’t you find it as incomprehensible that most Jews and Jew-lovers of this planet want so badly 6 million Jews dead during WW2?

        Comment by hermie — February 26, 2016 @ 9:14 am

        • “Don’t you find it as incomprehensible that most Jews and Jew-lovers of this planet want so badly 6 million Jews dead during WW2?”

          I don’t want six million Jews dead. It’s tragic it happened. In fact, it’s tragic anyone had to die during the war. However, it happened, I acknowledge they died and study the history of the war and who died.

          There, feel better? I don’t want them dead.

          Jeff

          Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 12:38 pm

          • You sometimes behave as hysterically as if your life depended on their death. Quite funny sight…

            Comment by hermie — February 26, 2016 @ 5:30 pm

            • “You sometimes behave as hysterically as if your life depended on their death. Quite funny sight…”

              What, exactly, about my statement is behaving in a hysterical manner?
              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 5:32 pm

            • “You sometimes behave as hysterically as if your life depended on their death. Quite funny sight…”

              That does not make any sense. How do interpret anything I said as hysterical?
              Are you saying that I am acting hysterically?
              Or what I said is hysterical, as in funny?

              Jeff

              Comment by Jeff K. — February 26, 2016 @ 5:42 pm

              • Jeff wrote: “Are you saying that I am acting hysterically? Or what I said is hysterical, as in funny?”

                That you’re acting hysterically. I like when you get emotional and visibly upset. I like your 30 exclamation & question marks in a row. I like your emotional appeals and your provocations. And so on. And so on.😉

                Comment by hermie — February 29, 2016 @ 12:30 am

                • “That you’re acting hysterically. I like when you get emotional and visibly upset.”

                  But, I didn’t do any of these things.

                  I’ve posed simple questions that somehow no one, including the esteemed Jett Rucker, can answer.

                  “I like your 30 exclamation & question marks in a row.”

                  I’m glad you approve.

                  ” I like your emotional appeals and your provocations. And so on. And so on.”

                  What emotional appeals?

                  I was actually mocking Jim. The man obviously wants all the Jews on earth to vanish. You want the same thing so I imagine the two of you get along very well.

                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — March 2, 2016 @ 6:15 am

                • When I talk about seeing all the Jews eradicated from the earth I hope you see I’m joking. I just have to learn to deal with a bad problem that continues to hound us.
                  My problem with them is the fact they are fighters against God and he will deal with them in his due time.
                  There is good and bad with all religion more bad than good for all the trouble religion has caused on the earth.
                  I patiently wait for the show to end.

                  Jim Rizoli
                  CCFIILE,COM
                  RIZOLITV.COM

                  Comment by jrizoli — March 2, 2016 @ 9:08 am

                • For the most part I understand you are joking, Jim.
                  I also joke a great deal.
                  Jeff

                  Comment by Jeff K. — March 2, 2016 @ 9:44 am

    • If you strike at the Jews, you must kill them. Well, the original saying (Emerson) pertained to “a king,” but Jews as a group are kinglike enough that the saying applies.

      The saying obviously pertains to ANYTHING/ANYBODY, group or individual, that is in any position to exact retribution in the event you fail to permanently disable them in your initial assault. The initial “strike” was “gentle” enough; it became harsher as the retribution wore on. The striking ceased in 1945; the retribution will never end. If the (German) striking had been anywhere near as harsh as since alleged, the retribution today would be considerably feebler than it is, I suspect.

      Maybe today’s Turks, also, wish their grandparents had killed more Armenians.

      Comment by Jett Rucker — February 26, 2016 @ 8:50 am

  10. A few cans and goblets on the ground are far from being the most annoying Auschwitz garbage around…😉

    Comment by hermie — February 26, 2016 @ 8:28 am


RSS feed for comments on this post.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Blog at WordPress.com.

%d bloggers like this: