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March 29, 2016

Should the Nazi extermination camps have been bombed by the Allies?

Filed under: Buchenwald, Germany, Holocaust, World War II — furtherglory @ 6:50 am

This morning, I found a comment on my blog, which was written by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck, who seems to be very well informed about World War II and the Nazi “extermination camps” where Jews were murdered. His entire comment is quoted below.

Begin quote

THE BOMBING DEBATE
At the beginning of 1944, the War Refugee Board asked Jewish organizations and other groups helping refugees for suggestions on what it should do. Not one suggested bombing extermination camps or rail lines leading to them. There is no evidence that anybody came up with the idea before May 1944. Apparently the first such proposal was made by a Slovak rabbi, Michael Dov Ber Weissmandel, to the Jewish Agency on May 16. At about the same time, two officials of the Jewish Agency in Palestine separately made similar suggestions. Yitzhak Gruenbaum made his to the U.S. Consul-General in Jerusalem, Lowell C. Pinkerton, and Moshe Shertok made his to George Hall, the British under secretary of state for foreign affairs. However, the idea was promptly squashed by the Executive Board of the Jewish Agency. On June 11, 1944, the Executive, with David Ben-Gurion in the chair, overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to ask the Allies to bomb the railroad lines and the death camps, with Ben-Gurion summing up:
“The view of the board is that we should not ask the Allies to bomb places where there are Jews.”

End quote from comment

On April 4, 1945, American soldiers of the 4th Armored Division of General Patton’s US Third Army were moving through the area south of the city of Gotha in search of a secret Nazi communications center when they unexpectedly came across the ghastly scene of the abandoned Ohrdruf forced labor camp.

A few soldiers in the 354th Infantry Regiment of the 89th Infantry Division of the US Third Army reached the abandoned camp that same day, after being alerted by prisoners who had escaped from the march out of the camp, which had started on April 2nd. Prior to that, in September 1944, US troops had witnessed their first concentration camp: the abandoned Natzweiler camp in Alsace, which was then a part of the Greater German Reich, but is now in France.

Ohrdruf, also known as Ohrdruf-Nord, was the first Nazi prison camp to be discovered while it still had inmates living inside of it, although 9,000 prisoners had already been evacuated from Ohrdruf on April 2nd and marched 32 miles to the main camp at Buchenwald. According to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, the camp had a population of 11,700 prisoners in late March, 1945 before the evacuation began.

This photograph below, taken at Ohrdruf on April 8, 1945, shows survivors who had escaped during the evacuation of the camp, but came back after the American liberators arrived.

Ordruf survivors pose with Hayden Sears

Ordruf survivors pose with American Col. Hayden Sears on April 8, 1945

Dead prisoners at the Ohrdruf camp

Dead prisoners at Ohrdruf camp

In the photo above, the prisoners have been partially covered by blankets because their pants had been pulled down, an indication that these men might have been killed by their fellow prisoners after the Germans left. The first Americans on the scene said that the blood was still wet. The liberators all agreed that these prisoners had been shot, although some witnesses said that they had been shot in the neck, while others said that they had been mowed down by machine gun fire.

On April 11, 1945, just a week after the discovery of the Ohrdruf camp, American soldiers liberated the infamous Buchenwald main camp, which was to become synonymous with Nazi barbarity for a whole generation of Americans. Buchenwald is located 5 miles north of the city of Weimar, which is 20 miles to the east of Gotha, where General Dwight D. Eisenhower had set up his headquarters.

The Ohrdruf forced labor camp was a sub-camp of the huge Buchenwald camp. Ohrdruf had been opened in November 1944 when prisoners were brought from Buchenwald to work on the construction of a vast underground bunker to house a new Führer headquarters for Hitler and his henchmen. This location was in the vicinity of a secret Nazi communications center and it was also near an underground salt mine where the Nazis had stored their gold and art treasures.

Buchenwald is located 5 miles north of the city of Weimar, which is 20 miles to the east of Gotha, where General Dwight D. Eisenhower had set up his headquarters.

General Eisenhower views burned bodies at Ohrdruf

General Eisenhower views burned bodies at Ohrdruf on April 12, 1945

The photo above hangs in the United States Memorial Museum in Washington, DC.

There has been some speculation that the Germans might have tested an atomic bomb near Ohrdruf. In his book entitled “The SS Brotherhood of the Bell,” author James P. Farrell wrote about “the alleged German test of a small critical mass, high yield atom bomb at or near the Ohrdruf troop parade ground on March 4, 1945.” The “troop parade ground” was at the German Army Base right next to the Ohrdruf labor camp.

Why did General Eisenhower immediately order a propaganda campaign about Nazi atrocities? Was it to distract the media from discovering a far more important story? The first news reel about the Nazi camps called Ohrdruf a “murder mill.”  You can view this news reel film on the Internet.

 

130 Comments »

  1. The carelsess talk in USA, UK and elsewhere about the possibility of bombing the Death Camps had been followed and reported to the Nazi SD spy central and had the result of … harming the prisomiers still alive in 1944.

    Comment by Wuolf Murmelsteine — April 2, 2016 @ 8:58 am

    • Feel free to prove this one, wolfie. Your groundless claims are always such a joke.

      Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 7:27 am

  2. Tim asked what’s the difference between revisionism and deniers.
    “Revision” happens in history all of the time, Tim. Views on what caused the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, the French Revolution, what caused the First World War, etc. Even views on Hitler himself have changed over time. It’s all about who is doing the research and how it is interpreted.

    What is common is that revisionism does not deny the actual event.

    Some very good examples of revisionism are Goldhagen’s work on the motivations of the Germans involved in killing Jews, Pat Buchanon’s book on the origins of the First and Second World Wars, Gordon Corrigan’s book on the performance of the British during WW I and so on. All of these books challenged the prevailing view on the history. None of these books stated the events did not happen, they just looked at them differently. I’m not going to comment on whether or not I believe what is in the books, they are just good examples.

    Holocaust denial, on the other hand, denies the event ever took place and looks to validate this view. It starts with the premise that there was never a Nazi policy to purposefully exterminate the Jews and looks to prove this.

    I’ve written previously what my issues are with Holocaust denial. I don’t advocate for Jews, Tim, other than my natural sympathy for the suffering they went through. My sympathy extends to the other victims of Nazi aggression, not just Jews. My belief is that the Holocaust does not stand outside of history, rather it is just another example of man’s inhumanity towards others who are different.

    Eastern Europe during the 30’s and 40’s was a particularly lethal time, with Stalin’s manufactured famine in the Ukraine, the Great Purge in the USSR, Hitler and Stalin’s actions in Poland, the deliberate starvation and mistreatment of Red Army POW’s, the Holocaust (I recently purchased a copy of Arno Mayer’s book, “Why Did the Heaven’s Not Darken,” he refers to the Shoah as “Judeocide” which I think I prefer. Maybe the various deniers that post here should read it too, considering how often they misquote the book), the forced expulsion of the ethnic Germans after the war, etc.

    I hope that helps.

    FG, a few random Jews popping up after the war does not explain what happened to most of the Jews “transited” through Chelmno, the ORC or Birkenau.

    Comment by Jeff K. — March 30, 2016 @ 1:51 pm

    • Jeff, I see where you are coming from in regards to the suffering the Jews and others experienced….But for some reason you don’t seemed too concerned on how the Germans suffered.
      I guess Jew suffering is the suffering that counts. They are the most important people in the world they hold the patent on suffering right?
      Well I got news for you WE have suffered even more than them having to listen to their lies and bullshit for the last 75 years and that is just on their HoloHoax stuff not including the thousands of years moaning and complaining about their lot in life on how God has cast them away from his untold blessings, of course they don’t look at it that way… The reason why this is happening… it is the same reason, they are a stiff necked,hard headed, disobedient people.
      They continue to act this way as a whole and they are still suffering for it and will continue to until God brings vengeance upon them and all
      apostate wayward people.

      JR

      Comment by Jamie Rambo — March 30, 2016 @ 2:32 pm

      • First, why are you signing yourself as Jamie Rambo, Jim?
        That confused me until I saw the video.

        Second, I’ve mentioned repeatedly that Germans suffered during and after the war.

        Comment by Jeff K. — March 30, 2016 @ 3:52 pm

      • irizoli. In the deepest hell Master Devils Eichmann, Hoess, Globotchnik, Ohlendorft and Himmler will grant you special tuition on WWII hisotry of genocides.

        Comment by Wuolf Murmelsteine — April 3, 2016 @ 1:00 am

        • I didn’t think that you believed in a fiery hell but I will say this if there is a fiery hell I’d rather be there with all those men you mentioned then in the heaven with you Jews who lie cheat and steal.
          At least I will be in good company with honest people.

          Jim Rizoli
          CCFIILE.COM

          Comment by jrizoli — April 3, 2016 @ 9:35 am

          • “Better to rule in hell,than serve in heaven “? I still like Dantes description of hell. Level 8 is fraud. Level 9 is treachery. Reckon some of the Jews figure into that?

            Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 9:55 am

        • Tim and Schlageter – appreciate your quick fix to anti-semitism. Not practical but have to give you kudos for dealing once and for all the world’s cancer.

          Here’s a popular poem that applies to the bane of the world’s existence:

          “….. The Jews, a headstrong, moody, murm’ring race,
          As ever tri’d th’extent and stretch of grace;
          God’s pamper’d people whom, debauch’d with ease,
          No king could govern, nor no God could please …..”

          Absalom and Achitophel, John Dryden (1631-1700)

          Wow, Wolf (or Wuolf) you having a bad hair day? A fight with a significant other? Your emotional response/outburst to Jim Rizoli is typical of those who HAVE NO ARGUMENT and wish to just emote! I thought you jews didn’t believe in a hell! And by the way, you are relegated to the same requirement of the WAY to achieving the desired after life that the rest of us are – THROUGH Jesus Christ (“Jesus saith unto him, “I am the way, the Truth and the Life – no man cometh unto the Father but by me.) How you doing with that, Wolf?

          Comment by Diane King — April 3, 2016 @ 11:38 am

          • Hey. I didn’t know the word “anti senetic”wasn’t around back in Shakspeares day. Most people would probably say Shakespeare stereotyped “Shylock” the Jew,from “The Merchant of Venice”. Come to find out,his attitude towards the Jews,actually reflected society’s opinion of them. As for them being “chosen”,wasn’t much to choose from . I don’t think God wanted a bunch of pagans to represent him.

            Comment by tim — April 3, 2016 @ 5:02 pm

    • You wrote: “FG, a few random Jews popping up after the war does not explain what happened to most of the Jews “transited” through Chelmno, the ORC or Birkenau.”

      I wrote about what happened to the Jews, who were sent to other camps on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/02/29/what-really-happened-to-the-hungarian-jews/

      The Jews who were sent to Chelmno, and the Operation Reinhard Camps were sent to the East (Russia) and few of them ever came back. Jews in Auschwitz-Birkenau were sent to other camps, which the records show.

      Comment by furtherglory — March 30, 2016 @ 3:13 pm

    • You wrote: “Holocaust denial, on the other hand, denies the event ever took place and looks to validate this view. It starts with the premise that there was never a Nazi policy to purposefully exterminate the Jews and looks to prove this.”

      What is your proof that there was “a Nazi policy to purposefully exterminate the Jews”. Was this policy written down? Or was this policy made up by the True Believers?

      Comment by furtherglory — March 30, 2016 @ 3:18 pm

      • It all comes down to the plan…..there was NO plan to exterminate the Jews. But the HoloHuxsters want you to believe there was one and it was “a meeting of the minds” wink wink…..type of thing. Most of the exterminationist will admit there was NO plan written down, but they sure make the story move along with their thinking there was a mental telepathy type plan. Now were getting into Twilight Zone type of stuff here….LOL
        In other words according to them( HoloHuxsters) there had to be a plan for all this to happen. All what? Nothing, the putting the Jews in work camps waiting for the end of the war to ship them all out of Europe……Emigration not Extermination…..was the PLAN.
        Of course Jeff our friendly pro HoloHoax blogger here has an issue with this thinking…… if the Jews weren’t exterminated then where did they go? That is the mystery of life.
        They sure ended up ready and able to sign up for reparations so that monthly check could roll in. Bottom line more Jews survived than died…..not a bad deal wouldn’t you say?

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — March 30, 2016 @ 3:47 pm

        • Snore, Jim.
          You sound like a broken record.

          Your plan to ship the Jews out of Europe only makes sense if the Germans won the war, which they did not.

          Comment by Jeff K. — March 30, 2016 @ 3:55 pm

          • Jeff. Got a question. Your mentioned remove the Jews from Germany if the krauts won the war. They wanted a country for just the Germans . I thougt the word, antisemitic had been around forever. FG sent a link to one the articles posted on this site. In this write up,it spoke of Wagner. He wanted Jews to assimilate into the German culture. I got to studying on that one. America is made up of a diverse section of people,from other nations. It would be kinda hard to say “typical American,because you can’t point to any one person and say,”that’s a typical American”. We’ve had so many different cultures immigrate to this country. On the other hand,Germany was populated by true German people back in Wagners day. I’m not trying to be racist here,but do you think it’s wrong for them to want a nation for Germans only? I’m not talking about “Germans,the master race” either. If the country was only Germans, the Germans would be able to plot a course for their own future,by following their ancestors from the past. Here in America ,we can’t do that. Too many nations that immigrated here. If Germany was only Germans,then I think they would all pull together for the greater good. Like I said,”we can’t do that here,because the different ethnic groups”. So what are your thoughts on hitler just wanting a pure German country? Leave the Jews outta this one. It’s just about,a pure German race for Germany

            Comment by Tim — April 4, 2016 @ 7:23 pm

            • Tim, I copied and pasted your statement here to answer it.

              “Jeff. Got a question. Your mentioned remove the Jews from Germany if the krauts won the war. They wanted a country for just the Germans . I thougt the word, antisemitic had been around forever. FG sent a link to one the articles posted on this site. In this write up,it spoke of Wagner. He wanted Jews to assimilate into the German culture.”

              From what I’ve read on Jews in Germany before Hitler came to power is that they were highly assimilated. Jews frequently intermarried with non-Jewish Germans. Jews thought of themselves as “Germans” and were highly patriotic.

              The issue comes from whether or not you think Jews are a race or religion. I look at Jews as a religion, not a race, however, a lot of people that post here look at Jews as a race.

              “I got to studying on that one. America is made up of a diverse section of people,from other nations. It would be kinda hard to say “typical American,because you can’t point to any one person and say,”that’s a typical American”. We’ve had so many different cultures immigrate to this country.”

              I agree with what you say here. The US is a truly multi-ethnic country (I prefer ethnic over race).

              “On the other hand,Germany was populated by true German people back in Wagners day.”

              That’s tricky. What’s a truly “German” people? There is a great deal of mixture between the Poles, French, Czech and so on between the Germans.

              “I’m not trying to be racist here,but do you think it’s wrong for them to want a nation for Germans only?”

              That’s also tricky. The truth is that when you look at Europe before WW II there were many ethnic minorities living in all of the countries of Europe, especially Eastern Europe. The end of the war changed that, with the ethnic Germans forced out of Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc., the Poles forced out of the Ukraine, the Ukrainians forced out of Poland and so on. I think diversity is a good thing but I also believe that countries should have the choice to make those decisions in their own. Of course then you circle back around to what is a real German? Maybe I shouldn’t type when I am tired.

              “I’m not talking about “Germans,the master race” either. If the country was only Germans, the Germans would be able to plot a course for their own future,by following their ancestors from the past. Here in America ,we can’t do that. Too many nations that immigrated here. If Germany was only Germans,then I think they would all pull together for the greater good. Like I said,”we can’t do that here,because the different ethnic groups”. So what are your thoughts on hitler just wanting a pure German country? Leave the Jews outta this one. It’s just about,a pure German race for Germany”

              I think the expulsion of the Jews from Germany was an internal matter. Only after this spread to other countries and evolved into genocide did it become the massive atrocity that is the “Shoah.” After all, the US is not one to preach, considering the treatment meted out to the Native Americans, the blacks, etc.

              Comment by Jeff K. — April 4, 2016 @ 8:15 pm

              • I guess the reason I call the Jews a race,is because they have their own country. I’ve never seen a religion with their “own country”. The closest I can think of any religion that has their own place,would be Joseph Smith and the Mormons in Salt Lake City . Yeah we pretty much shit on the American Indian . We didn’t gas em like Jews,but we screwed em all the same.

                Comment by Tim — April 5, 2016 @ 1:15 am

              • You wrote: “I look at Jews as a religion, not a race, however, a lot of people that post here look at Jews as a race.”

                Jews inherit certain diseases and conditions. You can read about it at http://www.jewishgeneticdiseases.org/jewish-genetic-diseases/

                Catholics don’t have diseases or features that are inherited. Lutherns don’t inherit disease from other Lutherns.

                Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 6:35 am

      • Would it even matter, what I gave you? What I would produce?
        Isn’t it all lies, forgeries, testimony obtained by torture?
        For what? What is the purpose of this grand conspiracy, anyway? Is there any logic whatsoever behind the Holocaust being a hoax? The creation of a small Jewish state in the Middle East? To make Adolph Hitler look bad? To make National Socialism look so horrible it is no longer a viable political option?
        What is it?

        Comment by Jeff K. — March 30, 2016 @ 3:50 pm

      • FURTHERGLORY, JEFF, and other commentators. The EXTIRPATION of Jews while other peoples had to be only subdued had been a basic point of Nazi doctrine To be victim of the Nazi racism it had been sufficient to have grandparents converted from the Jewish to other religion. Furthermore even friends and disciples of Jewish scolars and writers had to face discrimination. That had been the final point of century long hatred preached by Cristian ptiests, monks, pastors, etc. There is a historical line from the expulsion of Spanish Jews until the Shoah; from Torquemada to Himmler.

        Comment by Wuolf Murmelsteine — April 3, 2016 @ 1:14 am

        • Why have the Jews been expelled from so many countries? I wrote about this on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/02/05/how-many-times-have-the-jews-been-exterminated/

          Comment by furtherglory — April 3, 2016 @ 7:10 am

          • This is just a “in your opinion” type question. Would you say Shakepeare was anti semitic? I ask because of the character he came up with in “The Merchant of Venice”,Shylock the Jew . When he wrote that character,he made him one hated man. He was a greedy ass money lender,who’s greed got him in the end. It seems like every time someone brings up hatred of the Jews,the krauts were the ones who got the ball rolling on that one.

            Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 9:17 am

            • Shakespeare was not “anti-Semitic” because there was no such word in his day. Everyone was against the Jews back then. Hatred of Jews was normal thinking in Shakespeare’s day.

              Comment by furtherglory — April 3, 2016 @ 1:39 pm

              • Then could I say,” he is what we would refer to as anti Semitic ?” Okay if everyone and their cousin hated Jews,did the attitude towards Jews begin to ,”soften”,by the time we hit the 20th century? How many people that are around at this moment,do think truly like the Jews . All these countries with the holo laws. How many people in those countries,do you think actually feel holo laws are the right thing,as opposed to those who grudgingly go along with them. Those countries that passed those laws,I don’t see how the people voted as their conscience told them to (as in what’s in the best interest of the people). I don’t care what anybody says,those countries may as well line up with,Cuba,NK,countries like that.

                Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 4:35 pm

                • I wrote about the history of the word anti-Semitic on this blog post:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/06/19/was-richard-wagner-an-anti-semite/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 3, 2016 @ 8:03 pm

                • Wanna see racism? Go to South Florida. I remember the attitude of the hebs towards blacks and the “other races”. America is the infant,when juxtaposed with the rest of the world. We’ve got so many different cultures in this country. So I can’t really say that every culture that comes into this country should assimilate . Too many different communities to assimilate into. I do understand where Wagner was coming from. When it comes to America,a person can’t really say,”typical American “. When the immigrants started rolling into Ellis Island,they bought their culture with them. After a couple of their generations in this country,they didn’t know who the hell they were. A few years back I got together with a few of the guys I served with in Nam. I was talking with Jim Beck. He and his wife are 100% Kraut. The rest of the Germans in Germany may not be proud of being German, but he and his wife are. He called it going back to the “fatherland” ( even though there’s not much left to be able to call it that). How many centuries have the German folks ( not the ones now) been around for? I can understand where Wagner was coming from. Germans got a right to their heritage . I figure these ancestory websites that are around,are doing great,because nobody knows who the hell they are anymore. I gotta side with Wagner on this one.

                  Comment by Tim — April 4, 2016 @ 5:48 am

                • You wrote: “How many people that are around at this moment,do think truly like the Jews.”
                  Virtually everyone in America now thinks like a Jew. American children start learning about the Holocaust in kindergarten; they learn to worship the Jews, every year that they are in school. Forget “Black lives matter.” The only lives that matter in America are Jewish lives.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 3, 2016 @ 8:25 pm

                • Kindergarten ? Why! The “real world”,is gonna slap em in the face soon enough . That’s just wrong. Their minds have not developed enough for that. They can’t process something this serious. They’re gonna end up with nightmares. Do the parents ever speak up? Back when I was that age,it was Buffalo Bob and Howdy Doody. Thank the damned liberals for this one.

                  Comment by Tim — April 4, 2016 @ 4:44 am

              • furtherglory: “Shakespeare was not “anti-Semitic” because there was no such word in his day. Everyone was against the Jews back then.”

                True. The word ‘anti-Semitism’ was coined by Wilhelm Marr in the 19th century, if memory serves me right. Anti-Semites don’t hate Jews. Anti-Semites are willing to oppose the rise of Jewish power (called Semitism) before it’s too late. They are against Jewish domination and hegemony. They hate Jews as much as a caring father does when kicking a child abuser’s ass out of his kids’ playground. Would anybody even try to label such a father as a hater? For obvious reasons, Jewish media and academia have every interest in depicting such a resistance and opposition to the hegemonic rise of their own group as pure & groundless hatred, just as the NAMBLA and similar organizations have every interest in depicting anti-pedophilia as hatred. Mere vilifying trick intended to crush the opponents to Jewish hegemony. Anti-Semites are not Jew-baiters as alleged. Anti-Semites are as much anti-Jewish haters as Marthin Luther King was an anti-White hater and as the US founding fathers were anti-English haters. They are Gentile freedom fighters not planning to become slaves of the Jewish alien. Calling any opponents ‘haters’ is so easy, isn’t it? Easy but deceitful…

                Comment by hermie — April 5, 2016 @ 3:28 am

    • Read my blog post about the testimony of Ernst Kaltenbrunner at Nuremberg: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/nuremberg-testimony-of-dr-ernst-kaltenbrunner/

      Comment by furtherglory — March 30, 2016 @ 3:20 pm

    • Jeff wrote: “What is common is that revisionism does not deny the actual event.”

      When somebody denies that the Germans and their allies gassed to death hundreds of thousands of Serbian civilians in communal gas chambers during WW1 (something claimed by British propagandists in 1916), or that the ‘evil Huns’ turned human corpses into soap in special ‘corpse factories’ (another British allegation during WW1), or that the German soldiers cut off the hands of Belgian kids during the First World War, or that Saddam’s soldiers killed Kuwaiti babies in incubators, isn’t that revisionism? It is? So it seems that revisionism can also deny alleged ‘actual events’ after all.😉

      Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 5:00 am

      • I stand corrected. You are right, though I would say disproved rather than revised.

        Comment by Jeff K. — March 31, 2016 @ 5:04 am

        • Jeff wrote: “You are right, though I would say disproved rather than revised.”

          You’d better say [consensually & generally] dropped rather than disproved. Such things were not disproved. Most people only agreed to stop spreading those specific war lies.

          Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 5:27 am

      • The actual word you are looking for is “disproved.”

        Comment by Jeff K. — April 3, 2016 @ 7:34 am

        • Jeff wrote: “The actual word you are looking for is “disproved.””

          No, Jeff. The actual word is “revised,” whether you like it or not. Stop dancing around the right word. If those war lies had been disproved, you would be able to bring the studies achieving that on here. But you’re not able to do that, are you?

          Comment by hermie — April 4, 2016 @ 6:22 pm

          • No, the proper word is “disprove.”

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disprove

            http://www.thefreedictionary.com/revise

            Comment by Jeff K. — April 4, 2016 @ 7:50 pm

            • Those war lies were not PROVED ‘to be false or wrong’ – i.e. disproved (otherwise, feel free to bring studies disproving those lies on here) – but only abandoned, dropped when no longer needed for atrocity propaganda purposes, what finally altered the narrative of those wars by expurgating its biggest & most embarrassing lies. [In December 1925, British Foreign Secretary Austen Chamberlain didn’t say that he hoped the embarrassing British war lie about German corpse factories and human soap would be disproved. He just said: ‘I trust that this false report will not again be revived,’ what was done until the next world war and Hitler’s Pure Jewish Fat soap.] That process led to a revised version of those wars compared to what was said when those wars were being fought. Definitely a revision.

              Comment by hermie — April 5, 2016 @ 2:54 am

              • The ‘Holocaust’ was disproved. The war lies mentioned above were not. See the difference now?😉

                Comment by hermie — April 5, 2016 @ 2:59 am

                • I guess the proper word to describe Holocaust “revisionists” is “disprovers.” It’s a bit clunky, I think I’ll just continue to use “deniers.”

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 6:24 am

                • You wrote: “I think I’ll just continue to use [the word] “deniers.”

                  Is there any other event that has ever happened, in the history of the world, that has millions of deniers? Is there anything else in the history of the world, which is against the law to deny?

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 7:12 am

                • Okay. I was told there is a difference. I don’t deny this event took place. It shouldn’t have happened to anybody. Slavery shouldn’t have happened. I’m not juxtaposing the two. I’m using both of these as an example of mans cruelty towards his fellow man. Not that slavery was a good thing,but some slaves were paid. History doesn’t want to make that known. Just like with the Jews . Not all the facts were given about the holo. It’s just like that one Jew (Ellie I think was his name) who made up all the lies about his involvement in the holo. When people see that there are lies coming out of something,there’re gonna question the rest of it . I don’t know . I guess since humans are curious and inquisitive,they’re gonna question the balance of a topic looking for more lies. I don’t think that puts them in the “denial” category. I’ve said I don’t deny this point in the historical timeline of mankind,I’m just trying to find out exactly what happened. That’s why I listen to both sides here. If I denied this happened,I wouldn’t be doing that

                  Comment by Tim — April 5, 2016 @ 8:26 am

                • Millions of deniers? That seems far fetched.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 8:57 am

                • You wrote: “Millions of deniers?”

                  Yes millions! Holocaust denial is against the law in 19 countries now. Do you think that there are only a few deniers in each of these countries? If so, why have a law against Holocaust denial? More deniers are created every day — by bloggers like me.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 9:25 am

                • I really doubt there are millions of deniers.

                  You said more are created everyday.

                  Why hasn’t it worked on me, I wonder?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 9:34 am

                • You wrote:
                  “Why hasn’t it [Holocaust denial] worked on me, I wonder?”

                  You have written that you have not seen any of the former camps, that have now been turned into Memorial Sites. In this case, seeing is not believing. If you do begin traveling to any of the Holocaust sites, start with Dachau.

                  The first camp that I ever saw was Dachau, back in 1995. I didn’t write one word of Holocaust denial until three years later — I was afraid that I might be arrested and sent to Germany for trial.

                  If you go to Dachau now, you will be told that the shower room, which has been modified by the True Believers, is an original gas chamber. I wrote about the Dachau gas chamber on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/06/21/the-elusive-gas-chamber-at-dachau/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 9:53 am

                • Once again,off the subject here. I read something about there being a fair amount of Jew pilots that fought in WW 1. One that caught my attention was, Wilhelm Frankl. This guy was an ace. He had 20 confirmed kills. I’m guessing Germany had a good relationship with the Jews in WW1. I find it kinda hard to believe hitler single handily changed everyone’s opinion of the Jews by the time WW2 rolled around. There had to have been some Krauts around that remembered their contributions in WW1. Contributions of fighters like Frankl. Hitler was a great speech giver,but I find it hard to believe anybody can seduce a 100% of the population. He did a great job turning Germany around financially and giving them self esteem back,but I don’t think that would put everyone in line with him,when it came to the Jews

                  Comment by Tim — April 5, 2016 @ 11:21 am

                • There were plenty of Jews that served Hitler….Enough said for killing all the Jews…
                  http://rense.com/general43/jewserved.htm

                  JR

                  Comment by Jim Rizoli — April 5, 2016 @ 12:15 pm

                • Did any of these soldiers ever participate in any of the plots to knock off hitler? They got relatives in the camps,yet they go on serving the military that sponsors those camps. Yea. Sound logic I guess . Not much loyalty to family.

                  Comment by Tim — April 5, 2016 @ 2:56 pm

                • Tim wrote: “Did any of these soldiers ever participate in any of the plots to knock off hitler? ”

                  As far as I know, the answer is ‘no.’ The military plots to remove/murder Hitler were mostly devised and perpetrated by [pro-Allied Capitalist] Junker aristocrats (who had at best tolerated Hitler and his People’s Reich for a while only because they were afraid of the German Bolsheviks). Some Jewish terrorists also attempted to murder Hitler, but they weren’t soldiers.

                  Comment by hermie — April 5, 2016 @ 4:22 pm

                • This is where it don’t make sense. Jews fighting and dying for germany,on hitlers command. It’s demonstrable,they’re loyal to him. None of them conspired with the others to kill him. Hell if he has my kin locked down under threat of death,I’d be wanting to drop his ass,but none of them make a move. This is kinda like the civil war. You had blacks fight for the confederacy,but you wouldn’t see any giving orders to a white man. With that in mind how did they let Jew military leaders give orders to Germans that weren’t Jews . I mean they thought Jews were the lowest folks on the planet .

                  Comment by Tim — April 6, 2016 @ 1:02 am

                • Tim wrote: “This is where it don’t make sense. Jews fighting and dying for germany,on hitlers command. It’s demonstrable,they’re loyal to him. None of them conspired with the others to kill him. Hell if he has my kin locked down under threat of death,I’d be wanting to drop his ass,but none of them make a move.”

                  Those ‘Jews’ were not full Jews. They were mixed-race Germans with an amount of Jewish blood but regarded as spiritually and physically German enough.

                  Note that the Junker plotters, who were always looking for a good vilifying excuse in order to justify the murder of their beloved Führer to the German people (the famous ‘Commissar Order’ was one the excuses they used), never used the perfect excuse that the Holohoax was. Quite a surprise given that the Holohoax was in most Allied & Soviet newspapers at that time. They all acted as if they didn’t believe in that atrocity propaganda hoax. Also a surprise given that at least some of them should have seen it and heard of it by their position.

                  Tim wrote: “This is kinda like the civil war. You had blacks fight for the confederacy,but you wouldn’t see any giving orders to a white man. With that in mind how did they let Jew military leaders give orders to Germans that weren’t Jews .”

                  As I said above, they were regarded as German enough to enjoy the same rights as any other German.

                  Tim wrote: “I mean they thought Jews were the lowest folks on the planet .”

                  This is untrue. The Jews were depicted by most Nazi propagandists and educators as parasitic aliens having seized all the power levers of the German state, as dangerous and powerful enemies of the German people. Wouldn’t that be quite ridiculous for your own propaganda to claim that your country has been highjacked by subhumans? The ‘Untermenschen/Subhumans persecuted because regarded as inferior’ card always played by Jew-owned Western media and academia is a lie. But it conveniently prevents most Western sheeple from wondering why their own country is now also owned by the very same alien.

                  Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 6:30 pm

                • I understand they were half breeds, but they usually get treated worse than the full blooded ones. I’ve seen it happen a lot when blacks marry whites or Mexicans and blacks,etc. Most of the time,it don’t come from the whites either. I would’ve figured they’d come down harder on the krauts that married the Jews .

                  Comment by Tim — April 6, 2016 @ 6:43 pm

                • Perhaps they came harder on the Germans who were married with Jews. I don’t know. But they visibly didn’t come very hard on their progeny as far as the latter looked and acted as real Germans.

                  Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 7:45 pm

    • Jeff . Would the courts see a revisionist the way they do a denier and prosecute accordingly.

      Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 9:23 am

      • One and the same.

        Comment by Jeff K. — April 3, 2016 @ 9:44 am

        • Just because a person might question certain aspects of the event? I don’t say this shit never happened,there’s just a few things don’t seem to jive with me about it.

          Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 9:50 am

  3. Ohrdorf facilities
    It is still not clear exactly what projects the prisoners of Ohrdruf were working on. Besides the temporary quarters for the Reichs Leadership, the extensive tunnelling and other works at Jonastal point to an armament factory of some kind. There is a theory, advanced by Rainer Karlsch that the facility was intended as (and was in fact used as) a testing site for a German nuclear bomb.
    Rumours have it that three devices (die Glocke) were found. Apparently Eisenhower himself has stated that the Germans would have had a strategic device in another six months time. Why would he take his entire staff to an concentration camp? They had seen enough dead bodies.
    Strangely as it may seem America (Oppenheimer) tested one device in the Nevada desert three months after the the war finished in Europe May 1945, they dropped one at Hiroshima and another one at Nagasaki. The USA had no further A-bombs in their arsenal at that time.

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — March 29, 2016 @ 6:52 pm

    • The test of an implosion type bomb using Pu (‘Fat Man’) was in mid-July, 1945, in New Mexico (‘Trinity Site’) — I’ve never heard the Germans were anywhere near building a bomb, either a design or generating enough fissionable material — yes, the latter was in very short supply in the US, which did not yet have the capacity to generate much Pu (at Hanford, WA, via a ‘breeder’ reactor) or U235 (Oak Ridge, TN, via gaseous diffusion), which was used in the gun type weapon that exploded over Hiroshima — the US dropped an untested weapon design on Hiroshima — but the design of the gun type weapon (‘Little Boy’) was simpler, and so confidence was higher that it would work.

      As far as I know, you can still visit the ‘Trinity Site’ 2x/year — the 1st Sat in April/Oct — I was there on the 1st Sat in April, 1999.

      Comment by eah — March 29, 2016 @ 11:54 pm

      • eah
        A 2005 book by Rainer Karlsch, Hitlers Bombe claimed to have located, in the archives of the former KGB in Moscow, Heisenberg’s speech notes from the Harnack Haus conference of July 1942, revealing that Heisenberg was a strong advocate for development of a Nazi nuclear weapon. Karlsch alleged that Diebner’s team conducted the first successful nuclear weapon test of some type (employing hollow charges for ignition) of nuclear-related device in Ohrdruf, Thuringia on 4 March 1945. Karlsch quoted a purported eyewitness named Clare Werner, who claimed to have been standing on a hillside in Thuringia at the time of the test: ‘Not too far away was the military training base near the town of Ohrdurf. Unexpectedly there was a flash of light. “I suddenly saw something,’ she said […] “it was as bright as hundreds of bolts of lightning, red on the inside and yellow on the outside, so bright you could’ve read the newspaper. It all happened so quickly, and then we couldn’t see anything at all. We just noticed there was a powerful wind […] However, Karlsch himself has acknowledged that he lacked proof for the claims made in his book. Other sources cited by Karlsch refer to a previous event in the Baltic sea, at the island of Rügen, in the fall of 1944.
        As a by-note: I read sometime ago that a vessel with Heavy Water destined from a ford in Norway to Germanywas sank by British agents.

        Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — March 30, 2016 @ 1:52 am

        • Edit:
          That should read ‘fjord’

          Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — March 30, 2016 @ 2:13 am

        • Hallo Herr Stolpmann,

          Heisenberg was a strong advocate for development of a Nazi nuclear weapon — yes, I am generally familiar with this, also that Hitler showed only mild interest — I was always a bit surprised Heisenberg was not strongly condemned by the international scientific community for this (working toward a bomb for the Nazi regime) — Diebner’s team conducted the first successful nuclear weapon test of some type — I know nothing of this; wie erwähnt, I am not aware the Germans were capable of producing fissionable material (?) — thanks for the info, I will look into it a bit.

          Allerdings vielen Dank für Ihre Beiträge hier.

          Comment by eah — March 30, 2016 @ 3:16 am

      • The krauts were never gonna realize their dream of a nuke for one reason. They lacked heavy water .

        Comment by Tim — March 30, 2016 @ 6:30 am

        • You wrote: “They [the krauts] lacked heavy water” so they were “never going to realize their dream of a nuke…”

          I wrote about the Germans working on an atomic bomb on this blog post:
          https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/10/15/my-comments-on-bill-oreillys-book-killing-patton/

          Comment by furtherglory — March 30, 2016 @ 7:37 am

        • Tim
          The Norwegian heavy water sabotage
          It was a series of actions undertaken by Norwegian saboteurs during World War II to prevent the German nuclear energy project from acquiring heavy water (deuterium oxide), which could have been used by the Nazis to produce nuclear weapons. In 1934, at Vemork, Norway, Norsk Hydro built the first commercial plant capable of producing heavy water as a byproduct of fertilizer production. It had a capacity of 12 tonnes (13 short tons) per year. During World War II, the Allies decided to remove the heavy water supply and destroy the heavy water plant in order to inhibit the Nazi development of nuclear weapons. Raids were aimed at the 60 MW Vemork power station at the Rjukan waterfall in Telemark, Norway.

          Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — March 31, 2016 @ 12:05 am

      • They lacked heavy water.

        It’s not clear this would have been decisive — you can produce U235, a fissionable material, via gaseous diffusion, ie you do not need a reactor (heavy water is used as a neutron moderator in a reactor) — Pu is easier to produce, but you need a reactor — in summary: U235 is harder to produce but easier to make a bomb with; Pu is easier to produce but more difficult to make a bomb with — to make a bomb with Pu, an implosion device with fairly sophisticated shaped explosive ‘lenses’ was necessary — a bomb made with U235 can be a simple gun type, where one sub-critical mass of U235 is simply shot into another using a normal high-explosive charge.

        Comment by eah — March 30, 2016 @ 7:25 am

  4. The man in the far right ( a prisoner himself) of the picture with Eisenhower I’m told was murdered later by the prisoners for the evil deeds he did in the camp.
    Seems like lot of killing was done by the prisoners themselves. Of course the Germans got blamed for everything. People have to understand that some camps were interment camps for criminals and the inmates that were killed by the Germans most likely deserved it.
    Jews were executed there is no doubt about it but the reason for their executions is the issue here. Many of the Jews were communist, treasonous, subversiveness, or actually a Fifth Column that were hell bent of destroying Germany. If these type of goings on were happening in the USA I’m sure they would of been dealt with harshly also.
    So bottom line the Germans had a perfect right to try to keep things going in spite of all the people trying to tear them down.

    Jim Rizoli

    CCFIILE.COM
    RIZOLITV.COM
    IHR.ORG
    VHO.ORG

    Comment by jrizoli — March 29, 2016 @ 9:52 am

    • “Jews were executed there is no doubt about it but the reason for their executions is the issue here. Many of the Jews were communist, treasonous, subversiveness, or actually a Fifth Column that were hell bent of destroying Germany. If these type of goings on were happening in the USA I’m sure they would of been dealt with harshly also.”

      Jim, does that include women and children? What about the elderly? Were they also engaged in subversion?

      Why are foreign Jews included in this… the French, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Italian, Yugoslavian, Greek, etc.? The Germans invaded their countries.

      “So bottom line the Germans had a perfect right to try to keep things going in spite of all the people trying to tear them down.”

      For a war the Germans started…….

      Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 9:59 am

      • Started the war in the “European theater”,right? I’m asking because I’ve heard people in the past come up with the totally bizzare accusation,that Germany was responsible for the pacific theater too. I’m just wanting to make sure you don’t think that too. I can understand Germany in WW2 (not the Jewish part),but what do you think would’ve happened if the victors of WW1 hadn’t been such assholes to Germany at Versailles ? I know hitler was looking for payback when France gave up in WW2,by making them surrender at the train car Germany did in 1918. The rest of the war ( once again minus the Jew section of that history). Do you think hitler would’ve still had the “axe to grind” attitude he had. I’m thinking if Germany hadn’t got slammed like they did for WW1,hitler may not have even been an issue. The French were being childish assholes. Japan was in a state of ruin like Germany at the end of WW 1, but I don’t see where we were leaning on them for money over Pearl Harbor. Even though I heard Pearl Harbor was considered a terrorist act because we weren’t at war with them yet. We could’ve leaned on the niponese for the scratch we had to spend rebuilding Pearl,but we didn’t

        Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 12:49 pm

  5. It’s a good thing A-B was not bombed — not only would bombing likely have killed many inmates, bombing A-B would also have destroyed all the forensic evidence that has since come to light and served as convincing proof the Germans tried to exterminate the Jews in gas chambers using Zyklon-B.

    Comment by eah — March 29, 2016 @ 9:24 am

    • I wrote about the gas chambers which are still in existence on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/how-many-of-the-nazi-gas-chambers-are-still-in-existence/

      Comment by furtherglory — March 29, 2016 @ 9:41 am

    • It doesn’t matter that the allies didn’t bomb A-B. The Germans blew up the gas chambers themselves in order to eliminate forensic evidence.

      If the contention is that the buildings were not gas chambers, why blow them up? That seems a waste of time with Monowitz close by. Monowitz was an industrial center that the enemy could use. Why leave that in place and destroy worthless crematorium?

      Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 9:53 am

      • You wrote: “The Germans blew up the gas chambers themselves in order to eliminate forensic evidence.”

        I believe that the Soviets blew up the so-called gas chambers at Birkenau. I wrote about this on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/auschwitz-gas-chambers/

        Comment by furtherglory — March 29, 2016 @ 10:01 am

        • Why would the Soviets blow up the gas chambers?
          They didn’t at Majdanek.
          If the intention was to claim intact crematorium as gas chambers the Soviets could have modified them in any way they wished.

          Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 10:20 am

          • I wrote several blog posts about the alleged Majdanek gas chambers which you can read at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/majdanek-gas-chamber/

            Comment by furtherglory — March 29, 2016 @ 10:32 am

            • If they cremated the amount of folks they said they did,where’s all the skels at. Bones don’t burn that easily . Seems like they’d have a backlog of bones around somewhere. All these Jews that cleared out the gas houses,has anyone ever heard of shrinks treating them for depression? I don’t care what anyone says,somewhere along the line there’s gonna be A few of them,with some kind of stress disorder from all that shit. They always talk about how horrible everything was. So it would only make sense that they have psychological problems from the event

              Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 4:19 pm

      • I personally do not believe the Germans blew up these buildings. It makes no sense for them to do that they were in a rush to get out of there plus there was nothing bad going on in those buildings for anyone to see anyway and blowing them up would not hide forensic evidence I think the Russians blew the buildings up so they could hide the evidence that nothing happened there that’s why they did it and then they created their own horror Disneyland Park with all the horror fixings to convince people that the Germans were executing all these people.

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — March 29, 2016 @ 10:05 am

        • You wrote: “I personally do not believe the Germans blew up these buildings.”

          I agree with you 100%. I believe that the Russians blew up the buildings, just as you said.

          Comment by furtherglory — March 29, 2016 @ 10:19 am

        • See my reply above, Jim.

          Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 10:21 am

        • izoli wrote: “I personally do not believe the Germans blew up these buildings. It makes no sense for them to do that they were in a rush to get out of there plus there was nothing bad going on in those buildings for anyone to see anyway and blowing them up would not hide forensic evidence ”

          There was nothing bad in the crematoria of Majdanek either. But the Soviets and the Allies extensively used those facilities for anti-German vilification purposes (atrocity propaganda) from summer 1944 in spite of that. Leaving large crematories behind them at Auschwitz would have been the worst idea the Germans could have had.

          Human cremation was not very widespread and commonplace in the 1940’s. A few pics of ovens, piles of ashes and charred corpses were all the populace needed in those days to believe the Germans were in fact bastards. What had happened after the Soviet capture of Majdanek had vastly demonstrated that to the Germans. And what happened after the U.S. capture of Dachau and Buchenwald (where the pics of ovens, ashes, etc. also played a major role in the demonization of the Nazis) only confirmed it..

          Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 2:13 pm

      • Jeff wrote: “The Germans blew up the gas chambers themselves in order to eliminate forensic evidence.”

        The Germans didn’t blow up alleged gas chambers. They blew up their crematoria and left behind themselves their ‘gas chambers’ as the sole structures of Krema II and III only partly damaged but not destroyed. You can still sneak under the collapsed roof of these rooms today if you are not claustrophobic and afraid to be caught by employees of the camp-museum. What a messed-up concealment!!

        And if the ‘gas chambers’ were blown up for concealment purposes as you claim, why were the alleged undressing rooms blown up too. (All the morgues of Krema II and III – i.e. gas chambers and undressing rooms, according to the exterminationist narrative – are in a condition very similar.) Wouldn’t that have been easier to just remove the benches and clothing hooks in there? Dynamite to conceal undressing rooms? Really?!? C’mon…

        Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 1:52 pm

        • Jeff wrote: “The Germans blew up the gas chambers themselves in order to eliminate forensic evidence.”

          “The Germans didn’t blow up alleged gas chambers. They blew up their crematoria and left behind themselves their ‘gas chambers’ as the sole structures of Krema II and III only partly damaged but not destroyed. You can still sneak under the collapsed roof of these rooms today if you are not claustrophobic and afraid to be caught by employees of the camp-museum. What a messed-up concealment!!”

          Perhaps they thought that worked. The Germans stripped the buildings of equipment and then blew up the structures.

          “And if the ‘gas chambers’ were blown up for concealment purposes as you claim, why were the alleged undressing rooms blown up too. (All the morgues of Krema II and III – i.e. gas chambers and undressing rooms, according to the exterminationist narrative – are in a condition very similar.) Wouldn’t that have been easier to just remove the benches and clothing hooks in there? Dynamite to conceal undressing rooms? Really?!? C’mon…”

          Do you think that explosives are surgical? The Germans were also in a bit of a hurry, after all, the Soviets were coming. Better blow the whole thing up than worry about leaving it standing.

          Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 2:25 pm

          • Jeff wrote: “Perhaps they thought that worked. The Germans stripped the buildings of equipment and then blew up the structures.”

            What equipment? The ovens? Some gassing devices?

            Jeff wrote: “Do you think that explosives are surgical? The Germans were also in a bit of a hurry, after all, the Soviets were coming. Better blow the whole thing up than worry about leaving it standing.”

            No rocket science to realize that the safest way to blow up a specific room is by putting explosives in that specific room. Had the Germans really wanted to conceal genocidal activities in some of the morgues of Krema II and III, today you would find large craters where the gas chambers used to be and damages gradually decreasing as you move away from those points, i.e. the exact opposite of one can find there today. The ‘Holocaust’ is always such an amazing disruption of the laws of physics. A unique combination of magics, impossibilities, nonsenses, blunders, cynicism, oddities, stupidities and missing links.

            Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 4:13 pm

            • edit: “the exact opposite of what one can find” instead of “the exact opposite of one can find”

              Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 4:17 pm

            • “The ‘Holocaust’ is always such an amazing disruption of the laws of physics. A unique combination of magics, impossibilities, nonsenses, blunders, cynicism, oddities, stupidities and missing links.”

              Yet, no denier can provide reliable evidence on where the Jews went if they did not die. Some imaginary camp system in the Soviet Union? Some mythical homeland in the Ukraine? Oz? Narnia? The Middle Earth?
              When pressed, deniers say “we don’t have to prove it.”
              This is doublespeak for,
              “We were hoping you wouldn’t ask that question.”

              Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 4:26 pm

              • Jeff wrote: “Yet, no denier can provide reliable evidence on where the Jews went if they did not die.”

                They can provide the very same evidence as that provided by exterminationists for their so dear gas chambers, i.e. testimonies. Funny to see your definition of ‘reliable evidence’ move together with your own political biases.😉

                Jeff wrote: “When pressed, deniers say “we don’t have to prove it.””

                Also funny to see the way a normal burden of proof always makes you go crazy. You look stunned every time.

                Jeff wrote: “This is doublespeak for, “We were hoping you wouldn’t ask that question.””

                Mind-readind and the decoding of imaginary code words & euphemisms are an exterminationist speciality. You have just shown yourself worthy of the reputation of your gang. Congratulations!

                Comment by hermie — March 30, 2016 @ 1:54 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Yet, no denier can provide reliable evidence on where the Jews went if they did not die.”

                  What Hermie says:

                  “They can provide the very same evidence as that provided by exterminationists for their so dear gas chambers, i.e. testimonies. Funny to see your definition of ‘reliable evidence’ move together with your own political biases. ;-)”

                  What testimonies?
                  Cole and Kues both provided evidence of some Polish Jews shipped to the Soviet Union (BTW, I completely accept their evidence regarding this matter). However, neither has evidence that these Jews transited through the ORC (Cole now believes these camps were in fact extermination centers). A few able-bodied Jews shipped to the USSR for labor in no way equals the 1.5 million sent through these camps.

                  Jeff wrote: “When pressed, deniers say “we don’t have to prove it.””

                  What Hermie says:

                  “Also funny to see the way a normal burden of proof always makes you go crazy. You look stunned every time.”

                  What this actually means:

                  “Frankly we don’t have an answer and we wish you would quit bringing it up.”

                  It is simple:
                  True revisionism would have evidence to back up the theory that the Jews were sent East instead of dying.
                  We can argue about gas chambers and methods of killing all day. For every denier “expert” there is another expert to dispute their findings.
                  This is not a court of law. This is history. If there is an alternate theory about what happened to the Jews in Europe then it has to be proved. It is not enough to allege that the gas chambers would or would not work (frankly deniers make it seem as though humans are difficult to kill, that the conditions have to be perfect for this to happen). If you say the Jews went somewhere else then provide the documentation to prove it. Provide eyewitness testimonies. Provide perpetrator statements. Provide some type of proof.

                  Jeff wrote: “This is doublespeak for, “We were hoping you wouldn’t ask that question.””

                  What Hermie says:

                  “Mind-readind and the decoding of imaginary code words & euphemisms are an exterminationist speciality. You have just shown yourself worthy of the reputation of your gang. Congratulations!”

                  What it means:

                  “Duck, duck, duck.”

                  Comment by Jeff K. — March 30, 2016 @ 11:32 am

                • You wrote: “True revisionism would have evidence to back up the theory that the Jews were sent East instead of dying.”

                  I am a “true revisionist” and here is my theory:

                  This quote is from a previous blog post:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/the-trains-that-traveled-west-to-treblinka/

                  Quote from my blog post cited above:
                  When Germany began offering reparations to the Jews for the Holocaust, there were many Jews who claimed reparations but were rejected because they had come from Russia to Germany after the war. According to the official history of the Holocaust, these people were dead, so they could not claim reparations from Germany.

                  Now there are ads on TV asking for donations for the Holocaust survivors in Russia. There is no mention of how these survivors got there, but the scene in the ad, that shows the tattoo on the arm of one of the Holocaust survivors in Russia, has recently been deleted from the ad.

                  Comment by furtherglory — March 30, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

                • I’ve got a question about “revisionist”. Is there a distinction between ,deniers and revisionist. I know there’s a difference,I looked up the definition of both words. Two totally different definitions,but do the Jews and their supporters know the difference?

                  Comment by Tim — March 30, 2016 @ 12:35 pm

                • Deniers vs Revisionist, what is the difference? A revisionist is what you are a denier is what you are called.
                  Here is a video of me being interviewed for a change….

                  Jim Rizoli
                  CCFIILE.COM
                  RIZOLITV.COM

                  Comment by Jamie Rambo — March 30, 2016 @ 2:21 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “What testimonies?”

                  I was referring to Buehler’s testimony at Nuremberg, Seyss-Inquart’s one, among other ones. I had assumed you could remember our past debates on this topic. Apparently, I was wrong.

                  Jeff wrote: “This is not a court of law. This is history. ”

                  This is the reason why history will always remain mere biased storytelling instead of real science and an accurate depiction of past events.

                  Jeff wrote: “If there is an alternate theory about what happened to the Jews in Europe then it has to be proved. […] If you say the Jews went somewhere else then provide the documentation to prove it. Provide eyewitness testimonies. Provide perpetrator statements. Provide some type of proof.”

                  Pepetrator statements: Am I really supposed to post Buehler’s and Seyss-Inquart’s statements on here once again? You just need to go back to the place where we’ve debated that in past talkings.

                  An alternate theory to the conclusions of a ‘court’ exempting itself from having to prove its own claims, its ‘facts of common knowledge’ as the charter of the Nuremberg mock trials put it at that time, is still as valid as the conclusions of such a ‘court’ as long as it hasn’t be proven with reliable and solid evidence. Posing as an Inquisitorial judge who doesn’t even plan to prove his charges and fleeing a normal burden of proof like you do won’t help your cause, I’m afraid.

                  You are the one having to prove the Korherr report’s “Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces to the Russian East: 1,449,692” in fact meant “1,4449,692 Jews gassed to death in the Reinhardt camps” with solid evidence. You are the one having to demonstrate that this documentation proves your case, not mine.

                  Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 3:21 am

                • Tim wrote: “Is there a distinction between ,deniers and revisionist.”

                  No, Tim. There is none. ‘Holocaust denial’ is just a derogatory term coined by Deborah Lipstadt in order to belittle & ridicule Holocaust revisionists and to deprive Holocaust revisionism of any credit as real research. The hateful vilifying term ‘Holocaust denier’ amounts to calling Black people ‘apes’ in order to deprive them of their status as humans. Calling Holocaust revisionists ‘deniers’ is supposed to deprive the latter of their status as researchers.

                  Doubting the Auschwitz ‘gas chamber’ for tourists was a real gas chamber in its original state – something now conceded by the exterminationist side – was a enough to have Irving called a ‘Holocaust denier’ by Lipstadt. Jeff’s bogus distinction between revisionists and deniers can’t hold water for a minute…

                  Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 4:02 am

                • Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 4:22 am

                • Jeff wrote: ” A few able-bodied Jews shipped to the USSR for labor in no way equals the 1.5 million sent through these camps.”

                  Very rich from someone who is on a side always claiming a few emaciated sick and dead people found by the Allies in the last operational German concentration camps equals the mass murder of around 6 million Jews during WW2. Hard to deny that the exterminationist side very often uses pics of the health disaster at Belsen, Dachau, Buchenwald and Mauthausen as graphic ‘evidence’ supposed to prove its story of mass murder in gas chambers. Never seen so far a sole documentary not using pics of mass graves at Belsen and of corpses stacked like cordwood at Dachau in order to ‘prove’ the ‘Ho£ocau$t’, most often going as far as to imply that such pics are pics of Auschwitz and show gassed people.

                  Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 5:20 am

                • “Very rich from someone who is on a side always claiming a few emaciated sick and dead people found by the Allies in the last operational German concentration camps equals the mass murder of around 6 million Jews during WW2.”

                  A FEW?

                  Also, you are wrong. The Western soldiers who found the camps misunderstood what they were seeing. It is now understood that the condition of the inmates in those camps had nothing to do with mass extermination but neglect on the part of the Germans.

                  “Hard to deny that the exterminationist side very often uses pics of the health disaster at Belsen, Dachau, Buchenwald and Mauthausen as graphic ‘evidence’ supposed to prove its story of mass murder in gas chambers. Never seen so far a sole documentary not using pics of mass graves at Belsen and of corpses stacked like cordwood at Dachau in order to ‘prove’ the ‘Ho£ocau$t’, most often going as far as to imply that such pics are pics of Auschwitz and show gassed people.”

                  Whatever.
                  Still waiting on proof that the Germans deported instead of killing the Jews in Eastern Europe. Seyss-Inquart? Buehler? Men who are on trial for their lives can be excused for downplaying their roles in crimes.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — March 31, 2016 @ 6:17 am

                • You wrote: “Still waiting for proof that the Germans deported instead of killing the Jews in Europe.”
                  I wrote about my belief that some of the so-called death camps were transit camps:

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/jews-were-reduced-to-ashes-within-a-half-hour-of-their-arrival-at-the-sobibor-extermination-camp/

                  Comment by furtherglory — March 31, 2016 @ 6:49 am

                • You wrote: “Hard to deny that the exterminationist side very often uses pics of the health disaster at Belsen, Dachau, Buchenwald and Mauthausen as graphic ‘evidence’ supposed to prove its story of mass murder in gas chambers.”

                  You are right. I have blogged several times about the misuse of photos by the Allies who liberated the camps.
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/photos-dont-lie-but-liars-use-photographs-to-decieve/

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/05/17/beware-of-illustrating-news-articles-with-photos-that-promote-holocaust-denial/

                  Comment by furtherglory — March 31, 2016 @ 6:32 am

                • Jeff wrote: “A FEW?”

                  Yes, a few. Two or three thousand dead bodies out of 30,000 prisoners liberated at Dachau are a few. Focusing your cameras on those dead bodies is pure deception through a magnifying glass effect. Good psychological warfare. Great atrocity propaganda. But quite worthless to document an actual situation.

                  Jeff wrote: “Also, you are wrong. The Western soldiers who found the camps misunderstood what they were seeing. It is now understood that the condition of the inmates in those camps had nothing to do with mass extermination but neglect on the part of the Germans.”

                  The groundless neglect thing is the exterminationists’ liferaft. The terrible scenes in those camps were the result of gross overcrowding, Allied carpet bombings and the transfer of numerous people from epidemic areas such as Poland. Dealing with such a situation would have been very difficult in times of peace. It was impossible in a country at war paralyzed by Allied bombings. When one bombs a country back to the Stone Age, one shouldn’t be surprised to find a health situation worthy of the Stone Age in that same country. Hypocrisy and deception.

                  The guys of the Psychological Warfare Division didn’t misunderstand what they were seeing. C’mon. The U.S. military authorities didn’t powder the liberated inmates with DDT because they believed the terrible scenes in the captured camps were the result of neglect or starvation. That’s ridiculous. They knew what they were facing. The US army didn’t put Dachau under quarantine until July because they believed they were looking at the result of neglect. The British troops didn’t burn down the barracks at Belsen and didn’t buldoze the victims of the Belsen health disaster so fast because they believed they were dealing with the dead bodies of starved people. Reality deniers aka Holocaust believers are such a joke!

                  Jeff wrote: “Seyss-Inquart? Buehler? Men who are on trial for their lives can be excused for downplaying their roles in crimes.”

                  Don’t ask for perpetrator statements if you don’t want to hear about such stuff. Try not to change your evidential standards from a comment to another one. By the way, Buehler was testifying on Frank’s behalf at the Nuremberg Trials, not as a defendant, when he stated that.

                  Whatever. Nice demolition of the probative value of Nazi ‘confessions’ / perpetrator statements in history writing. Not really needed, but thanks for your contribution to the cause of truth nevertheless…

                  Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 7:22 pm

            • “What equipment? The ovens? Some gassing devices?”

              Heaters, the ventilation equipment, etc., anything they could recycle.

              Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 4:28 pm

              • OK. I see. Just wanted to know what you were talking about.

                Comment by hermie — March 30, 2016 @ 1:55 am

    • ACCURACY OF BOMBING-THE AIR RAID ON BUCHENWALD CONCENTRATION CAMP
      During an American bombing raid on August 24, 1944 that was directed at a nearby armaments factory, several bombs, including incendiaries, also fell on the camp, resulting in heavy casualties amongst the prisoners
      The attack of the 1st Bomber Division of the 8th U.S. Air Force at Buchenwald on was prepared in detail and was aimed at the Gustloff-Werk II, the German armament works and facilities of the SS. With this began the last phase of the history in the existence of the concentration camp Buchenwald. Accommodation in the area of the prisoners was not damaged. Only within the zones adjacent to the German Equipment Works as part of the camp there were devastations. What was hit were the crematorium, laundry, disinfection and supply buildings , in which winter clothing had been stored
      At the time of the attack the camp had about 31.000 prisoners the limit of its capacity. A large part of the prisoners had to remain during the attack near the plant, there were no air raid shelters. 2,000 prisoners were wounded and 388 killed by the raid.
      And yes, Germans kept good records!

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — March 30, 2016 @ 2:09 am

  6. Ben-Gurion reversed his decision on June 19th and urged the allies to bomb Auschwitz-Birkenau.

    It’s hard to see how bombing Birkenau could have saved many lives. Horthy halted the deportations in July due to pressure so there was not much time to develop plans to bomb the camp even if the allies wanted too (there was opposition to bombing the camp led by John McCloy).

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff K. — March 29, 2016 @ 8:55 am

  7. That place kinda sounds like the civil war POW camp in Andersonville,Georgia .

    Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 8:37 am

  8. Forget about what was or wasn’t bombed in the past. Let’s think of the present. Let’s nuke in NK. The lil girly man over there is launching his short range missiles again. I guess he thinks it’s New Years or something.

    Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 8:30 am

  9. The same Yitzhak Gruenbaum who said: “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe.”? C’mon. Mere theater.

    At least, this Zionist vet disclosed the real aim of the Zionist campaign of Holohoax atrocity propaganda during WW2, when heading the Jewish Agency’s sham ‘Rescue Committee’.

    Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 8:29 am

    • HERMIE. So among friends, as other nations we too have a lot of idiots enjoying free speech and spray idiocies around. In those times of darkness every word could turn out to be dangerous. And this applies to all sides.

      Comment by Wuolf Murmelsteine — March 29, 2016 @ 8:56 am

      • wolf wrote: “as other nations we too have a lot of idiots enjoying free speech and spray idiocies around”

        Idiocies like technically-absurd gas chambers and physically-impossible burning pits?😉

        Don’t try to downplay the prominence of Y. Gruenbaum and the Jewish Agency? That’s ridiculous…

        Comment by hermie — March 29, 2016 @ 1:28 pm

    • And it’s good to know that Gruenbaum/Greenbaum’s son Eliezer was a kapo at Auschwitz. Yitzhak Gruenbaum was visibly not to worried by the lot of his dear son in an alleged giant slaughter house for Jews. But hey! Yitzhak was a Hoax insider. He knew that the whole ‘death factory’ thing was just Zionist atrocity propaganda after all.

      Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 9:41 pm

      • et: ‘not too worried’

        Comment by hermie — March 31, 2016 @ 9:45 pm

        • I got a question(actually two questions) It’s off the subject . Anybody that knows of this,feel free to jump in. Otto Skorzen. He was one of hitlers most favored ss men. Heard he went to work for the Mossad. It said he told Wiesenthal he’d go to work for them,if Wiesenthal tore up the arrest warrant he had on him for war crimes . I don’t know what his “crimes” were,but if the hebs put out the arrest warrant,I’m guessing it had something to do with the holo. He was put on trial at the end of WW2 ,by the Americans,for something unrelated to the holo. He became a contract killer for mossad. I don’t care if you’re a hired gun for mossad or you worked at one of the units in the nazi prison system . Murder is murder. Yet this guy is handed a “get out of jail free card”,because he becomes a killer for Israel .So what’s up here ? You’re going to be arrested for crimes involving the holo,but if take out marked people for Israel,they’ll turn a blind eye to your past transgressions ? I’m beginning to think they weren’t to overly concerned with getting justice for the Jews . How many other nazis did the Jews let skate,because they went to work for them? I know Israel had their own hit people. What. Did they feel like God having a former ss man under their thumb. They pull shit like this,don’t bang on my door looking to borrow a cup of sympathy.

          Comment by Tim — April 1, 2016 @ 10:02 am

          • Otto Skorzeny, once nicknamed ‘the most dangerous man in Europe’, didn’t work for the Mossad, IMO. I need more than mere words told by some members of a race well-known for its great abilities to lie, dupe and deceive before regarding that as a fact. Sounds more like a Jewish perverse fantasy: having one of Hitler’s favorites on board of the Israeli ship surely makes many kikes wet their pants with rivers of cum.

            You’d better drop the widespread misconception that the people arrested and executed by the victorious Allies after WW2 were punished for actual crimes. The post-WW2 masquerade of ‘arrests, mock trials and executions’ was just democratic butchering. The democratic leaders, with their high moral pretenses and boundless hypocrisy, couldn’t just butcher their defeated enemies after the end of the war. Their home public opinion wouldn’t have tolerated such a brutality and such leaders would have been kicked out of office if they had just executed their defeated enemies like in ancient times. The democratic leaders had to show their sheeple that those defeated enemies were in fact human-looking monsters BEFORE being allowed to butcher the latter. Do you know the French proverb that he who wants to kill (drown) his dog first claims the latter has rabies? The whole ‘WW2 war criminals & mock trials’ thing was nothing else. It only aimed at showing to the democratic sheeple that America’s defeated enemies had rabies (were mad dogs) and so had to be butchered for everybody’s sake. As WW2 and the following years brilliantly demonstrated, the only real war crime is now defeat. You were wrong and evil if you’ve been defeated, and you were right and good if you’ve won. No real evil and good involved. Only the age-old treatment meted out on the vanquished by the victor. As simple as that…

            Comment by hermie — April 2, 2016 @ 7:38 am

            • First, I’d like to congratulate you on your use of “sheeple.” I really like the word, frankly, it’s really the only evidence that Jett Rucker is a “word smith.”

              Second, the real lesson from WW II is that if you committ atrocities (Nazis, Soviets) than you better win or the aggrieved parties will make a point of punishing you.

              To me, Stalin was the smart one. Yes, his country suffered enormously from the German invasion but in the end he won and gained Eastern Europe. It’s great when you are the one everyone courts (Nazis, Western Allies).

              Comment by Jeff K. — April 2, 2016 @ 7:52 am

              • You wrote: “it’s really the only evidence that Jett Rucker is a “word smith.”

                Sorry, but I beg to differ. There is plenty of evidence that Jett Rucker is a “word smith” in the articles that he writes, which can be read on the Internet.

                Comment by furtherglory — April 2, 2016 @ 8:01 am

              • To an extent,Stalin kinda reminds me of Charlie Manson.

                Comment by Tim — April 2, 2016 @ 8:59 am

              • Jeff wrote: “Second, the real lesson from WW II is that if you committ atrocities (Nazis, Soviets) than you better win or the aggrieved parties will make a point of punishing you.”

                You’ve decided to believe in the victors’ atrocity propaganda (demonizing myths) and glorifying myths. Your choice. Your point. Your conclusions. Your freedom.

                Comment by hermie — April 2, 2016 @ 4:32 pm

            • I’m just going off what I read on the internet here . When I read on the Internet,I take it with the proverbial “grain of salt”. Then again the old adage goes,”truth is stranger than fiction”. I can’t figure out what they stand to gain by saying he worked for them. Far as I’m concerned ,the show trials back then,still take place today. I’ve seen they’ve always tried to paint the German soldier being “without” honor. I read that story about Joacim Peiper. He was gonna take the heat for all the POWs that were killed. That they killed. Not good enough. They want everyone’s head. This shit kinda reminds me of My Lai

              Comment by Tim — April 2, 2016 @ 8:57 am

              • Tim wrote: ” I can’t figure out what they stand to gain by saying he worked for them. ”

                You can’t figure what they stand to gain by saying a prominent Nazi did israel’s dirty job for the Jews? Really?

                Comment by hermie — April 3, 2016 @ 7:07 am

                • “Tryin like the devil just to find the lord,working like ni–er for my room and board,coal burning stove,no natural gas,if that ain’t country,I’ll kiss your ass”. David Allan Coe to start your Sunday morning. I never said “prominent”. Yeah the assholes probably wanted to play puppet master. Then again that would’ve been a double edged sword the were playing with too. Besides I was told yesterday,he never worked for mossad. That “wiki ” thing on the internet said he did,but that’s a liberal site so I don’t pay attention to them that much. I got the 411 on this man from another site. Somehow,Tesla and the CIA are connected to this man. Still trying to figure out why he lived in Boyton Beach. South Florida,Jew paradise. Then again he might been able to hide among the “Ricans” and Cubans . “Will the last American to leave South Florida,please bring the flag”.

                  Comment by Tim — April 3, 2016 @ 9:47 am

  10. Bombing solves ALL problems. Then, as now.

    Comment by Jett Rucker — March 29, 2016 @ 7:18 am

    • Excellent point! I figure about 5 nukes can end “anti-Semitism” forever–1 for tel aviv, 1 for NYC ,Los Angeles, DC, Miami

      Comment by Schlageter — March 29, 2016 @ 12:56 pm

      • You missed Fort Lauderdale.

        Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 12:58 pm

        • I figured Miami in the greater SE Florida area. A big enough yield to reach Palm Beach and Boca Raton should do the trick

          Comment by Schlageter — March 29, 2016 @ 1:00 pm

          • Definitely Boca and Pompano. The condos on the beach are damn near all owned by Jews .

            Comment by Tim — March 29, 2016 @ 1:18 pm


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