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April 5, 2016

Jules Schelvis, survivor of the Sobibor death camp and six other camps, has died at the age of 95

Filed under: Holocaust — Tags: , , , — furtherglory @ 8:50 am
Two monuments at the site of the Sobibor camp Photo credit: Alan Collins

Two monuments at the alleged Sobibor extermination camp Photo credit: Alan Collins

You can see some old black and white photos of the Sobibor camp at http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/photos.html

The following quote is from a news article which you can read in full here:

Begin quote

Jules Schelvis, the last Dutch survivor of the Nazi death camp at Sobibor, died on Monday at his home near Amsterdam at the age of 95, according to the BBC.

Some 250,000 people, mostly Jews, were in 1942 and 1943 murdered at Sobibor, one of three secret camps whose entire purpose was extermination that the Nazis established in occupied Poland.

Most of Schelvis’s relatives died in the Second World War, the BBC reported, and he spent time in six additional camps before he was liberated.

After the war, Schelvis began documenting what had occurred at the camp, which had far fewer surviving witnesses than concentration and labor camps.

Schelvis was also a co-plaintiff in the trial of John Demnanjuk, convicted in 2011 of 27,900 counts of acting as an accessory to murder.

End quote

Excuse me! I don’t understand this!

Sobibor was strictly an extermination camp, the purpose of which was to kill every Jew that entered the camp.  Why did those stupid Nazis save this one prisoner? Did they deliberately save one prisoner so that he could live to the age of 95 and testify many years later at the trials of aged men like John Demnanjuk?

The news story continues with this quote:

Begin quote

After the war, Schelvis began documenting what had occurred at the [Sobibor] camp, which had far fewer surviving witnesses than concentration and labor camps.

[…]

He published his first book, Inside the Gates, which described life in the camps, in 1982. He founded the Sobibor Foundation in 1999, dedicated to remembrance of the camp’s victims and survivors.

Once asked why he devoted years of his life to enshrining the memory of the Holocaust, he said: “I did it for everyone who was murdered there. First of all for my wife and the family and everyone else.”

End quote

Note that he dedicated his book to “the camp’s victims and survivors.” Survivors? Plural? What kind of “death camp” has survivors?  The purpose of the Sobibor camp was the kill the Jews, not to save Jews who would become “survivors” and testify at trials of Holocaust deniers.

Sobibor railroad station is on the right Photo credit: Alan Collins

The Sobibor railroad station is on the right                   Photo credit: Alan Collins

Many people, including me, think that the German people are very intelligent.  Not true! The stupid Nazis built a “death camp” way out in the boondocks, where they could kill Jews in secret, but then they left survivors, who would live to the age of 95, allowing them to write books about this “death camp.”  Sobibor was a “whistle stop” on a one-track railroad. Why take Jews way out in the Polish countryside to kill them when it would have been more efficient to kill them in Warsaw?

Could it be that Sobibor was a transit camp, from which the Jews were sent somewhere else, and that’s why there were survivors who lived to be 95 years old?

162 Comments »

  1. FG
    There was a love story about Perchersky and a girl called Luka, in fact she was German by the name of Gertrude Poppert–Schonborn. I had sent you an email, as it was too long for a blog, but failed to deliver

    Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 6, 2016 @ 4:37 pm

  2. Inconvenient History — The “Nazi Extermination Camp” of Sobibor in the Context of the Demjanjuk Case

    No Physical or Forensic Evidence to Prove Traditional View of Sobibor

    …what Matia asserts about Sobibor being an “extermination camp” is based exclusively upon eyewitness testimony…Professor Christopher Browning is considered one of the world’s foremost authorities on the WWII concentration camps of Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor,…In his formal statement for the David Irving vs. Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books libel trial in London in 2000, Browning admitted that documents relating to mass gassings at these camps are scant. The same holds true for the material evidence…Holocaust historian Robert Jan van Pelt also conceded the evidence for the mass killings of Jews at Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec—where allegedly millions were murdered—is very meager. In reference to these three camps, he wrote: “There are few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by [Auschwitz commandant Rudolf] Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.”… — etc etc.

    People who believe Sobibor was a “death camp” choose to believe that — because there is absolutely no forensic evidence for it. None (“based exclusively upon eyewitness testimony”). And the stories told are ridiculous: chlorine gas, diesel exhaust, Zyklon-B, and electricity have all been claimed as the means of murder; “the floor opened automatically. The corpses fell into the cars of a train passing through the gas chamber and taking the corpses to the oven”…

    No fair-minded, rational person believes this stuff — nor would the “evidence” suffice to convict anyone of a crime in a proper adversarial court proceeding, which is what matter most.

    Comment by eah — April 5, 2016 @ 11:46 am

    • How the hell could they get a rail car through the gas chambers? People actually believe that? Where are the pics with the gas house that has tracks going through it. That would have to be the jumbo economy size building to hold a rail car. What happened to the Jews toting the stiffs out one at a time? They’re really coming up with some good ones here. Did they have pics of the gas houses that could accommodate a rail car at the trials. If they wanted to show how massive this operation was,they would’ve had pics like that at the trials

      Comment by Tim — April 6, 2016 @ 2:46 pm

    • People actually believe that?

      From the link:

      …just another falsehood to add to the long list of other Sobibor falsehoods…Unsubstantiated alterations in the traditional Sobibor story are seemingly endless…

      Comment by eah — April 7, 2016 @ 12:13 am

  3. Jules Schelvis personal story does not tally at all with the official holocaust narrative of Sobibor being a “death camp”. He claims that on the day he arrived at Sobibor, he – and about 80 other young men – were transferred to a nearby peat-digging camp called Dorohucza. From there, he went through a Lublin sub-camp and finished up inside a ghetto near Radom where he worked in a print shop.

    This is totally at variance with the standard holocaust version, whereby those chosen to live at Sobibor were used solely as slave workers inside the camp itself. Once they had performed their tasks, then they too were exterminated in the alleged “gas chambers” there.

    We’ve been told that the only survivors were those who took part in the Sobibor Revolt in October 1943. Thus, his is a very strange story indeed: while all the Jews were being transferred from a ghetto to a “death camp”; Mr Schelvis was moving in the opposite direction, from the “death camp” to a ghetto!

    Comment by Talbot — April 5, 2016 @ 10:54 am

    • During the uprising at Sobibor an estimated 365 people managed to escape from the camp, about 200 of them did manage to reach the woods. Only 47 prisoners of the camp, however, survived the end of the war. About 150 refugees became victims and were hunted down by German trackers or had been denounced by anti-Semitic Poles or murdered by them. The 47 prisoners had to go through another odyssey of fear, hunger, cold and privation before they could crawl out of their hiding places or leave partisan groups until the withdrawal of German troops from Poland in the summer of 1944, often pass false identities to start a new life.

      Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 6, 2016 @ 1:15 am

    • often pass false identities to start a new life

      Or re those who settled/were resettled in English speaking countries, they anglicized their names, thus making it difficult/impossible to track/know what happened to (probably) many ‘survivors’.

      Comment by eah — April 6, 2016 @ 4:06 am

  4. Deeply enbedded in the Bronx Jewish community, Michael, once a “shabbes goy” for the synagogue across the steet, has a lot of stunning experiences with Jews of all walks of life and their take on the orthodox Holocaust narrative, and about Jewish power and influence. Listen and be amazed!

    http://www.codoh.com/library/document/4047/

    Comment by Michael Santomauro — April 5, 2016 @ 10:46 am

  5. In 2014 Putin made “Holocaust denial” a crime in Russia, too. Why? Because Russia needs their (Judeo-Bolshevik/Frankfurt School) Nuremburg IMT “victory over ultimate evil” narrative, too….”The revisionists Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf, and Thomas Kues have in recent books described various sources supporting the deportation of large number of Jews to the occupied Soviet Union. This contradicts the politically correct version of the Holocaust according to which these Jews were killed or remained in camps in Poland but also raises the question of what happened to these Jews after the war. “It must be pointed out that of the less than 2 million Jews – some 423,000 of them non-Polish – who were deported to the Occupied Eastern Territories, a considerable percentage no doubt perished during the period 1942–1945 due to starvation, epidemics and various other causes. We remind our readers here of the staggering mortality ratios among the POWs in the east (on both the German and the Soviet side)…. War-related hardships moreover did not end in 1945, as many people died in the immediate post-war era, especially in underdeveloped Eastern Europe, from epidemics, hunger and cold that was the result of collapsed infrastructure, destroyed agriculture and inadequate housing.”
    Regarding the fate of those who survived this: “While a number of the surviving deported Polish Jews may have been assimilated into the local Russian, Belorussian or Ukrainian Jewish communities, with which they shared much in common, or even managed to return to Poland and from there on to other countries in the west or to Israel, a large portion of them, together with the surviving deported Western Jews, were kept as prisoners behind the Iron Curtain and most likely deported to and hidden away in northern Russia or Siberia, so that Stalin could consolidate the myth of the extermination of Jews in “gas chambers.”” These Jews are argued to likely have been taken to camps they were never intended to leave (and likely to camps outside the normal Gulag camp system from which some people returned and therefore not included in the ordinary Gulag documentation). The authors also stated evidence in support for and replied to various objections to this theory such as large scale deportations of whole peoples and large scale deaths in labor camps being common under Stalin’s regime. It is further suggested that Zionist leaders likely were aware of this occurring but were silent because the Holocaust story and Soviet support were needed for the creation of Israel. http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_demographics

    Comment by who dares wings — April 5, 2016 @ 10:22 am

    • “The revisionists Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf, and Thomas Kues have in recent books described various sources supporting the deportation of large number of Jews to the occupied Soviet Union. This contradicts the politically correct version of the Holocaust according to which these Jews were killed or remained in camps in Poland but also raises the question of what happened to these Jews after the war.”

      Yes, they have.
      However, they can’t seem to find evidence of any Jews specifically transited through Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka or Chelmno.
      What a pickle.
      A few healthy, male Polish Jews were in fact transferred to Bialystok. David Cole wrote about them and Rizoli gave evidence about some Baltic Jews that fled before the German Army. I accept that evidence without question because the authors provided evidence of this.
      But, I find it incredibly convenient to say that Jews were imprisoned in the mainland USSR without registration.
      What would blow this open is evidence of railway schedules from the death camps to locations in the USSR, or personnel files detailing SS commanders to camps in the USSR, or even survivors or guards from these camps that can provide testimony of some type of camp system the Jews were sent to.

      See, that shouldn’t be hard if the camps existed, right?

      Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 11:20 am

      • Jeff wrote: “However, they can’t seem to find evidence of any Jews specifically transited through Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka ”

        According to you, through what location(s) did those Jews transit to go there if not through the Reinhardt camps? You know that no train could go from Western Europe directly to Russia because of different railway gauges, don’t you? And how were the alleged German perpetrators supposed to know when they had to kill Jews if ‘resettlement in the East’ sometimes meant ‘resettlement in the East’ and other times ‘kill them all’ as alleged? The Holohoax conspiracy theory is always so lousy [probably the reason why it needs endless inputs of Zyklon B😉 ]…

        And can you provide us with reliable evidence (preferably documents) of the [literally] mountains of wood delivered to the Reinhardt camps (300 kilograms of wood x the number of corpses said to have disappeared from the face of the earth without a trace there) during the war in order to obliterate any physical evidence of the mass murder allegedly perpetrated at those sites? That shouldn’t be hard if the concealment operations in those camps indeed took place as claimed. What?! No delivery note for even a tiny fraction of that? Incredible. Unbelievable…

        Sorry for assigning the burden of proof to the accuser (i.e. you and the other Holohoaxsters) once again. So mean…

        Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 8:11 am

        • “According to you, through what location(s) did those Jews transit to go there if not through the Reinhardt camps? You know that no train could go from Western Europe directly to Russia because of different railway gauges, don’t you?”

          I’m quite aware of the difference in Russian and European track gauges. The Germans expended a great deal of energy converting those tracks to European gauges…..which of course makes it even more important to have very organized schedules in transporting large number of civilians into a war zone.
          I’m perfectly fine with what Cole and Rizoli provided because it shows that Jews were transported, either by the Germans or Soviets, to known locations in the Soviet Union. However, there is a vast difference between deporting or evacuating a few hundred or thousand Jews to transporting some 1.5 million Jews, including women, children and elderly, to some location in the USSR. Especially into war zones or active partisan zones.

          “And how were the alleged German perpetrators supposed to know when they had to kill Jews if ‘resettlement in the East’ sometimes meant ‘resettlement in the East’ and other times ‘kill them all’ as alleged?”

          Over think much?
          The Germans sent healthy adult males and only a few. They could use local Jews far easier for labor.

          ” The Holohoax conspiracy theory is always so lousy [probably the reason why it needs endless inputs of Zyklon B😉 ]…”

          Any lousier than denier theories? Including some sort of nebulous camp system that there is no proof of?

          “And can you provide us with reliable evidence (preferably documents) of the [literally] mountains of wood delivered to the Reinhardt camps (300 kilograms of wood x the number of corpses said to have disappeared from the face of the earth without a trace there) during the war in order to obliterate any physical evidence of the mass murder allegedly perpetrated at those sites? That shouldn’t be hard if the concealment operations in those camps indeed took place as claimed. What?! No delivery note for even a tiny fraction of that? Incredible. Unbelievable…”

          Why?
          The camps themselves harvested local wood for their own purposes. Poland has (and had) an active logging industry that the Germans had access to.

          Again, a big difference between purchasing supplies locally and transporting 1.5 million people across country while AT THE SAME TIME sending millions of soldiers and material into the Soviet Union. This requires coordinating train schedules, collection points, supplies, personnel, etc. Are you honestly saying that the Germans would jeapordize their military operations to send civilians instead of soldiers into the USSR? Ridiculous.

          “Sorry for assigning the burden of proof to the accuser (i.e. you and the other Holohoaxsters) once again. So me”

          I can tell this subject troubles you. That’s good. I think I’ll keep bringing it up.

          Comment by Jeff K. — April 6, 2016 @ 2:11 pm

          • The incineration of between 1.5 and 2 million human corpses with a few bundles of local wood harvested in the vicinity of the Reinhardt camps is another great joke of Reality deniers aka Holocaust believers. Increasingly crazy and ridiculous. Really surreal and absurd.

            And it’s hilarious to see you now deny the existence of some concentration camps after Jew-owned media and academia spent decades bamboozling people by claiming that evil deniers are just crackpots who deny the existence of the German concentration camps (something no revisionist ever did). How does that feel on the other side? Not too cold and uncomfortable?😉

            Orthodox academia has just multiplied the number of German concentration camps and ghettoes by a factor of 6 (7,000 –> 42,500). Still not enough for you?

            Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 6:59 pm

            • “The incineration of between 1.5 and 2 million human corpses with a few bundles of local wood harvested in the vicinity of the Reinhardt camps is another great joke of Reality deniers aka Holocaust believers. Increasingly crazy and ridiculous. Really surreal and absurd.”

              Actually what I said that Poland itself has a major logging industry. Are you saying that the Germans couldn’t get the fuel they needed from Poland?

              “And it’s hilarious to see you now deny the existence of some concentration camps after Jew-owned media and academia spent decades bamboozling people by claiming that evil deniers are just crackpots who deny the existence of the German concentration camps (something no revisionist ever did).”

              Whoever said that?
              German concentration camps are well established. Many remain intact to this day. No one’s ever said that deniers deny the existence of the camps.
              You really went off the rails on that one.

              What I am saying, I’ve always said, is that if the Jews were sent East, where is the proof? I’m not talking about groups of Jews who fled in front of the German armies in 1939 or 1941, or some able-bodied Jews the Germans shipped East for labor. I’m talking about the mass deportations that started in the Spring/Summer/Fall of 1942. The Germans, under orders from Himmler, started mass evacuations from the General Government. Most of those evacuated from the General Government passed through the Operation Reinhard Camps. If they didn’t die, where did they go?

              “How does that feel on the other side? Not too cold and uncomfortable?😉”

              That didn’t make any sense.

              “Orthodox academia has just multiplied the number of German concentration camps and ghettoes by a factor of 6 (7,000 –> 42,500). Still not enough for you?”

              That number includes fly-by-night camps opened and closed within the first years of the Nazi regime, POW camps, labor camps, satellite camps, genuine transit camps, ghettoes, the major concentration camps, etc., etc. Many of those camps had nothing to do with Jews. For example, the first concentration camps were set up for Communists and Social Democrats. Some of those inmates were Jews but that was not the primary function of those first camps.

              Comment by Jeff K. — April 6, 2016 @ 7:26 pm

              • Since you both are on the RR subject, what’s up with the rail cars that went through the gas houses and had the bodies dropped in them? Think Herm made mention of this . Is this the real McCoy or was this something some Jew made up,so the holo would seem more intense? Told y’all,I’m here just trying to figure this out ( I don’t think history will ever give a definitive answer for this subject).

                Comment by Tim — April 6, 2016 @ 7:34 pm

                • They were carts, not railway cars, Tim.
                  Like mining carts.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 6, 2016 @ 7:45 pm

                • How come this is not more widely noted? They always talk about the Jews having to drag the bodies out of the gas house and not this. Did tracks really run underneath the gas house ? Trap door opens and the stiffs fall into the cart underneath the house . I’m just going on what I read here. I figure the tours would want to highlight something like that,even though it does sound like something out of a Rob Zombie movie.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:59 am

                • Tim wrote: ” what’s up with the rail cars that went through the gas houses and had the bodies dropped in them? Think Herm made mention of this . Is this the real McCoy or was this something some Jew made up,so the holo would seem more intense? ”

                  Something some Jews made up about Sobibor, so the holo would seem more intense.

                  http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.be/2011/07/death-camp-sobibors-trap-door.html?zx=1876285efa6ae36c

                  But hush hush. Jeff doesn’t like when people are told or reminded that the alleged gas chambers were only one of the very numerous demonizing lies spread about the Germans during WW2 and the following years.😉

                  Comment by hermie — April 7, 2016 @ 7:19 pm

                • I just figured if something like that was around it would’ve been bought up at the trial. Prosecution could’ve used that to show how efficient they were with the system and how serious they were about production. I guess “Thomas the Train” is out of the picture now.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:25 pm

                • Tim wrote: ” Did tracks really run underneath the gas house ? Trap door opens and the stiffs fall into the cart underneath the house . I’m just going on what I read here.”

                  No, Tim. No tracks run underneath the alleged gas house. That’s a dropped claim, among many other ones.

                  Tim wrote: “I figure the tours would want to highlight something like that,even though it does sound like something out of a Rob Zombie movie.”

                  That’s why this specific lie was dropped. Unsurprisingly, the tours, and the Holo-stuff promoters and benefactors in general, don’t want their dear livelihood-myth to look like something out of a Zombie movie. Even if it often does in spite of their efforts…

                  Comment by hermie — April 7, 2016 @ 7:30 pm

                • It just sounds like something out of one of Rob Zombies movies. He made “House of a 1,000 Corpses”. This just seems like something he would’ve had in that movie. Loading corpses up and moving them around them”basement dungeon”.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:49 pm

                • Tim wrote: “I just figured if something like that was around it would’ve been bought up at the trial. Prosecution could’ve used that to show how efficient they were with the system and how serious they were about production.”

                  Patently too extravagant for the victors, even for the daring post-war executors…er prosecutors.

                  Comment by hermie — April 7, 2016 @ 7:36 pm

                • Like I said,prosecution could’ve could’ve hit a home run with this if it existed. Trap doors that are in the gas house that open and drop the dead bodies into waiting carts. That would’ve shown an elaborate production system that a lot of ” planning” went into. If that existed,Mr. Satan would’ve been envious of that. It wouldn’t make sense that the unit that liberated that prison to destroy it either. Something on that “grand of a scale”,I’m sure they’d break out the ol Kodak and be taking happy snaps left and right.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:57 pm

                • Tim wrote: “Like I said,prosecution could’ve hit a home run with this if it existed.”

                  A very spectacular thing for sure.

                  Tim wrote: “Trap doors that are in the gas house that open and drop the dead bodies into waiting carts. That would’ve shown an elaborate production system that a lot of ” planning” went into. If that existed,Mr. Satan would’ve been envious of that. ”

                  Indeed, Tim. But that could have damaged, if not destroyed, the credibility of the whole Sobibor death camp lie too. I think that the main challenge faced by the postwar holo-courts was the challenge of keeping the stories told by their fanciful Eastern Jews within specific limits by putting the too extravagant & too obviously-fraudulent stories aside.

                  Tim wrote: “It wouldn’t make sense that the unit that liberated that prison to destroy it either. Something on that “grand of a scale”,I’m sure they’d break out the ol Kodak and be taking happy snaps left and right.”

                  Perhaps they would have just used their usual & convenient allegation that the Nazis had destroyed all the traces of their crimes by claiming that the ‘Fascist beasts’ had dismantled their underground tracks at Sobibor just before leaving. During the war, Soviet propagandists even claimed that the entire Sobibor ‘death factory’ had just been dismantled by the Germans and shipped to the Polish city of Chelm (not to be confused with Chelmno), where it had been reassembled and used to murder more Jews, they said. I have wartime newspaper articles about that story. I can post some on here if you want to have fun.

                  Comment by hermie — April 7, 2016 @ 8:24 pm

                • You have news articles dealing with this. Put a few of them on here. I’d like to read them. Like I said,I’m trying to figure this whole event out. I’ll take all the material on the subject I can find.

                  Comment by Tim — April 8, 2016 @ 7:30 am

                • OK, Tim. I’m gonna look into my personal archives and I’ll try to post some stuff about that later.

                  Comment by hermie — April 9, 2016 @ 8:17 am

                • Jeff wrote: “There were a lot of them. Plus, their SS overseers didn’t give a damn about their welfare. Opening the doors and allowing the room to air out for a short period of time would reduce the concentration of HCN in the air enough to make it reasonably safe for men with gas masks to move about.”

                  I wasn’t talking about the welfare of the Sonderkommandos. I was talking about their survival long enough to be able to finish the job, certainly something their SS overseers would have given a damn.

                  Would the introduction of cyanide gas into the rest of the crematory buildings (what your passive ventilation by opening the doors for a while implies) have been a good idea? I don’t think so…

                  Jeff wrote: “Also they would only need to do this if there were bodies blocking the ventilation system.”

                  With or without bodies blocking the air extraction ducts, the main problem with that reverse ventilation system remained unsolved anyway. Understanding that one couldn’t/can’t effectively vent a light gas like HCN out of a room with air extraction ducts close to the floor is not rocket science. Light gases go up and heavy gases go down. Basic physics. With such a ventilation system, the fresh air that had just been pumped in (heavier than HCN) would have been pumped out continuously, while a lethal amount of HCN would have stayed above, quite untouched, floating in the upper half of the room like a killer cloud waiting for the arrival of its next victims.

                  So ridiculously amateurish! So unworkable! So laughable! So nonsensical!!

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 2:59 am

                • Tim wrote: “You have news articles dealing with this. Put a few of them on here. I’d like to read them. ”

                  Hi Tim. I’m back to you. I failed to find such news articles in my own archives (that’s what happens when one has too many archives, I guess), but you can read about that on that blog: http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.be/2013/10/nazis-moved-sobibor-gas-chambers-to.html?zx=f9a60dfa8cda3689

                  Comment by hermie — April 16, 2016 @ 9:12 am

              • Jeff wrote: “Actually what I said that Poland itself has a major logging industry.”

                Great! So there exist Polish delivery notes, German shipping documents, etc. for the huge amounts of wood allegedly delivered to the Reinhardt camps. No? None? Unbelievable…

                Jeff wrote: “Are you saying that the Germans couldn’t get the fuel they needed from Poland?”

                Quite so. Entire forests should have been cut off to get such a huge amount of wood. What forests were devastated to fuel those alleged giant pyres? Can you name some?

                Jeff wrote: “Whoever said that? German concentration camps are well established. Many remain intact to this day. No one’s ever said that deniers deny the existence of the camps. You really went off the rails on that one. ”

                Don’t pretend you’ve never heard that. A quite widespread allegation about revisionists.

                Jeff wrote: “That number includes fly-by-night camps opened and closed within the first years of the Nazi regime, POW camps, labor camps, satellite camps, genuine transit camps, ghettoes, the major concentration camps, etc., etc. Many of those camps had nothing to do with Jews. ”

                How many of those 42,500 camps and ghettoes were fly-by-night camps? Do you have precise information about those 42,500 camps and ghettoes? Or are you just throwing up another groundless allegation in order to avoid that bullet?

                Comment by hermie — April 6, 2016 @ 8:08 pm

                • “Quite so. Entire forests should have been cut off to get such a huge amount of wood. What forests were devastated to fuel those alleged giant pyres? Can you name some?”

                  Wow, is the implication that Jews are more difficult to burn than ordinary people?
                  The Germans used lime to eliminate the stench of rotting bodies. Lime dries out corpses, making it easier to burn them. By the time the cremations started the main chore was to burn dry, dessicated corpses. As I’ve mentioned, nude bodies burn easier. The key is airflow.

                  Jeff wrote: “Whoever said that? German concentration camps are well established. Many remain intact to this day. No one’s ever said that deniers deny the existence of the camps. You really went off the rails on that one. ”

                  “Don’t pretend you’ve never heard that. A quite widespread allegation about revisionists.”

                  No, I’ve never heard this. Not once, not ever. Some deniers postulate that the camps were rather benign places, others state that the camps were harsh places but not intentionally lethal.

                  Jeff wrote: “That number includes fly-by-night camps opened and closed within the first years of the Nazi regime, POW camps, labor camps, satellite camps, genuine transit camps, ghettoes, the major concentration camps, etc., etc. Many of those camps had nothing to do with Jews. ”

                  “How many of those 42,500 camps and ghettoes were fly-by-night camps? Do you have precise information about those 42,500 camps and ghettoes? Or are you just throwing up another groundless allegation in order to avoid that bullet?”

                  Nope, but I’m not going to quote chapter and verse of KL, History of the German Concentration Camps to you. If you want this information get the book yourself. I purchased it as an e-book for 19.99.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 6, 2016 @ 8:21 pm

                • History of the German Concentration Camp. Is that the name of the book?

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:17 am

                • Sorry, it’s actually KL, a History of the Nazi Concentration Camps.
                  It’s by Niklaus Wachsman.
                  It’s very long but it’s very good.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 7:20 am

                • I blogged about this book at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/nikolaus-wachsmann/

                  I have not read this book, and I don’t intend to ever read it. Life is too short. The book seems to be an encyclopedia of Holocaust lies. I now understand why you comment on my blog, as you do. In the short time that you have been commenting, you have written 3 times as many comments as any other reader of my blog. It seems that you read this book and you were driven insane.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 7:49 am

                • “I have not read this book, and I don’t intend to ever read it. Life is too short. The book seems to be an encyclopedia of Holocaust lies.”

                  See, you made an assumption about what the book is about. What it details is the history of the concentration camp system itself, not about the death camps. It does talk about Auschwitz and its role in the Holocaust. I realize you don’t like talking about the cruel things that that the Germans did before or during the war so I won’t mention them.

                  As for my sanity, my wife does question it on occasion.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 8:01 am

                • You wrote: “As for my sanity, my wife does question it on occasion.”
                  Listen to your wife. I think that you are showing signs of manic-depression.

                  You wrote: “What it [the book] details is the history of the concentration camp system itself, not about the death camps.”

                  I wrote about “the concentration camp system” many years ago, on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/overview.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 8:10 am

                • No, my wife just thinks I’m nuts.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 8:20 am

                • You wrote: “my wife just thinks I’m nuts.”

                  You are obviously highly intelligent, and very energetic. You are very well informed about one side of history. My blog is about the other side of history, which you have apparently not studied.

                  “Nuts” is a layman’s term that is not a medical term. You can read about various medical terms for mental illness at http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-types-illness

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 8:30 am

                • Thanks

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 7:52 am

                • KL is an abbreviation for Concentration Camp in English. This is a harmless abbreviation that Wachsmann has turned into a horror.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 8:02 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Wow, is the implication that Jews are more difficult to burn than ordinary people?”

                  No, this is the implication that around 600,000 tons (300 kg* x 2,000,000 corpses) of wood are really a very big pile of logs.😮

                  * (minimal weight of wood for a Hindu pyre with a single body laid on wood fire; very probably much more wood needed for pyres with piled corpses ‘floating’ over a fire like with the alleged Reinhardt pyres)

                  Jeff wrote: “The Germans used lime to eliminate the stench of rotting bodies. Lime dries out corpses, making it easier to burn them. By the time the cremations started the main chore was to burn dry, dessicated corpses. ”

                  What about the ex post facto testimonies ‘reporting’ such a stench? Useless to prove your current point, so just put aside? No longer believe in the probative value of testimonies? Interruption of lime supplies on those specific days?

                  Jeff wrote: ” The key is airflow.”

                  Nice demolition of the fictional Auschwitz burning pits. Soon enough…

                  Jeff wrote: “Some deniers postulate that the camps were rather benign places, others state that the camps were harsh places but not intentionally lethal.”

                  I know what revisionists say. I was talking about what Jew-owned media and academia claim about them. Beside the Chutzpah claim that ‘deniers’ say the German concentration didn’t exist, Jew-owned media and academia even went so far as to claim that ‘deniers’ say no Jew was persecuted by the Nazis.

                  Jeff wrote: “Nope, but I’m not going to quote chapter and verse of KL, History of the German Concentration Camps to you. If you want this information get the book yourself.”

                  Quoting a few figures from this book wouldn’t kill you. Stop fleeing every time you have an opportunity to detail and source your claims.

                  There was vastly enough room in the Far Eastern ghettos alone for the Jews unwanted and unneeded [for the German war effort] from Western & Central Europe. Your ‘No room for them anyway’ fallacy has just died out and it won’t come back. Just face it and move on.

                  Comment by hermie — April 7, 2016 @ 7:54 am

                • “What about the ex post facto testimonies ‘reporting’ such a stench? Useless to prove your current point, so just put aside? No longer believe in the probative value of testimonies? Interruption of lime supplies on those specific days?”

                  You are very much an “all or nothing” kinda person, aren’t you?
                  Hermie, the Germans started using the lime because they wanted to eliminate the smell.

                  Jeff wrote: ” The key is airflow.”

                  “Nice demolition of the fictional Auschwitz burning pits. Soon enough…”

                  Soon enough what? That the world might actually believe the lunacy of Holocaust denial?
                  I wouldn’t hold your breath.

                  Jeff wrote: “Some deniers postulate that the camps were rather benign places, others state that the camps were harsh places but not intentionally lethal.”

                  “I know what revisionists say. I was talking about what Jew-owned media and academia claim about them. Beside the Chutzpah claim that ‘deniers’ say the German concentration didn’t exist, Jew-owned media and academia even went so far as to claim that ‘deniers’ say no Jew was persecuted by the Nazis.”

                  I know you well enough now that you wouldn’t just make something up. Show me what you are talking about.

                  Jeff wrote: “Nope, but I’m not going to quote chapter and verse of KL, History of the German Concentration Camps to you. If you want this information get the book yourself.”

                  “Quoting a few figures from this book wouldn’t kill you. Stop fleeing every time you have an opportunity to detail and source your claims.”

                  It’s an e-book. It’s a little hard to try and pull stuff out on the same device I am typing on but I’ll see what I can do.

                  “There was vastly enough room in the Far Eastern ghettos alone for the Jews unwanted and unneeded [for the German war effort] from Western & Central Europe. Your ‘No room for them anyway’ fallacy has just died out and it won’t come back. Just face it and move on.”

                  No room?
                  My issue is logistics, not space. My issue is the conditions that existed on the Eastern Front, not that there wasn’t room to park Europe’s Jews.

                  Personally I think the Germans would have tried a territorial “Final Solution” had they won in the USSR. The problem is they didn’t.
                  So the idea that the Germans tried to expel the Polish Jews along with other European Jews in 1942, 1943 and 1944 strikes me as far fetched while the Germans were fighting tooth and nail against the Red Army.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 7:48 pm

                • I got a question . Stalin didn’t like uncle Adolph and vice versa. I read hitler wanted to send Jews to the Soviet Union . From what I read,Joe Stalin didn’t like Jews either. Did this idea of sending Jews to the ussr come about when Stalin and Hitler were still on speaking terms? As crazy as he was,I can’t imagine Joe Stalin going along with this. If he did,he ran the risk of being indicted for being an accessory to Hitlers murder.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 8:05 pm

                • Congrats FG! You’ve finally arrived at the point most others have here about the troll. Time to send him on his way, never to return

                  Comment by Schlageter — April 7, 2016 @ 12:36 pm

                • Hey, have you had a chance to ask David Irving where the Jews went if they didn’t die?

                  Oh, wait a minute. It’s Thursday so Irving may actually now believe the Jews did die.

                  Or not? Honestly, the man changes his mind so often it’s hard to tell.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 12:50 pm

                • Don’t disrespect David Irving, just because he is now being attacked by the True Believers. I have written several blog posts that I tagged “David Irving.”
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/david-irving/

                  David Irving is old now and he is losing his memory. He is having physical problems, as he ages. Still, he is an expert on the history of World II.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 2:08 pm

                • He’s also getting rather grouchy.
                  Schlageter relayed a story how he yelled at the archeologists at Sobibor. I thought it was really funny.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 7, 2016 @ 2:10 pm

                • I have written about David Irving being grumpy: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/germany-is-making-a-big-mistake-in-trying-to-ban-david-irving-from-all-hotels-in-berlin/

                  Actually, when I heard him speak, he was a bit grumpy. This happens to people when they get old.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 2:18 pm

                • Walter Mathau and Jack Lemmon. “Grumpy Old Men”. Actually I liked Lemmon better in “the out of towners”. Steve Martin and Goldie Hawn ruined it when they remade it.

                  Comment by Tim — April 7, 2016 @ 3:41 pm

                • Irving didn’t “yell” at anyone at Sobibor. He engaged in a very calm and knowledgeable manner with an American Jew “documentary” maker who asked for an impromptu interview once he realized who David was.

                  Irving did a masterful job of upholding the revisionist case, and he was very respectful with the leader of the dig.

                  Comment by Schlageter — April 7, 2016 @ 4:47 pm

                • You wrote: “Irving didn’t “yell” at anyone at Sobibor. He engaged in a very calm and knowledgeable manner with an American Jew “documentary” maker who asked for an impromptu interview once he realized who David was.”

                  I have met David Irving twice; he gave two lectures on two occasions in the town where I live. Irving’s “knowledgeable manner” is very intimidating. He is literally a walking encyclopedia, and he doesn’t hesitate to correct people who don’t have the knowledge that he has. The “Jew documentary maker” probably irritated Irving by his know-it-all manner.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 8, 2016 @ 6:55 am

                • Jeff wrote: “You are very much an “all or nothing” kinda person, aren’t you? Hermie, the Germans started using the lime because they wanted to eliminate the smell.”

                  If testimonies claimed they did, that must be true…😉

                  Jeff wrote: “Soon enough what? That the world might actually believe the lunacy of Holocaust denial? I wouldn’t hold your breath.”

                  Soon enough that the lie about the physically-impossible Auschwitz burning pits is out. The key of any cremation is airflow, as you rightly said. I fail to see where you can see lunacy in that. I can clearly see your own embarrassment. But I’m afraid lunacy is nowhere on sight.

                  Duck, duck , duck….

                  Jeff wrote: “No room? My issue is logistics, not space. My issue is the conditions that existed on the Eastern Front, not that there wasn’t room to park Europe’s Jews.”

                  14 Jews aggregated in each room of a ghetto instead of 4 as previously. Logistical issue solved. Easy. See?😉

                  The Russians dumped and kept millions of Jews in their ‘Pale of Settlement’ during centuries. The German armies captured the former Russian ‘Pale’ and even more. What makes you think that the Germans would have been unable to do what the Czar and his guys had easily achieved during centuries?

                  Jeff wrote: “Personally I think the Germans would have tried a territorial “Final Solution” had they won in the USSR. The problem is they didn’t. So the idea that the Germans tried to expel the Polish Jews along with other European Jews in 1942, 1943 and 1944 strikes me as far fetched while the Germans were fighting tooth and nail against the Red Army.”

                  The ghettos and camps in Far Eastern Europe needed to be guarded anyway, whether they were half-crowded, fully-crowded or vastly overcrowded. Bringing some trains full of unwanted & unneeed Jews and some additional food in there doesn’t look like an insurmountable obstacle, not insurmountable enough to deter Hitler from implementing his pre-war threat that way. Do you really think Hitler loved Jews so much as to worry about their wellbeing or non-wellbeing in the ghettos and camps of Far Eastern Europe? C’mon…

                  Comment by hermie — April 9, 2016 @ 8:14 am

                • Jeff wrote: “You are very much an “all or nothing” kinda person, aren’t you? Hermie, the Germans started using the lime because they wanted to eliminate the smell.”

                  “If testimonies claimed they did, that must be true…😉”

                  Glad to see you admit it.

                  Jeff wrote: “Soon enough what? That the world might actually believe the lunacy of Holocaust denial? I wouldn’t hold your breath.”

                  “Soon enough that the lie about the physically-impossible Auschwitz burning pits is out. The key of any cremation is airflow, as you rightly said. I fail to see where you can see lunacy in that. I can clearly see your own embarrassment. But I’m afraid lunacy is nowhere on sight.”

                  Well, apparently people burned bodies in pits for a long time:

                  “Mattagono argued that pit burnings were not an effective means of body disposal. He cited a study by H. Frolich in an 1872 German military journal that the attempt to dispose of the bodies of soldiers by opening mass graves and filling them with tar “resulted in charring of the uppermost layer of the corpses, the baking of the intermediate layer, and no effect on the bottom layer.” [277] He ignored the fact that the author of the study gave guidelines for the effective disposal of bodies in pits by using gasoline. Frolich wrote that the grave had to be drenched with gasoline in a tar pit. After three hours, 250 to 300 bodies were disposed of. [278]

                  The Frolich study mentions that this method had been approved of by a Belgian commission. [279] In 1887 Dr. Hugo Erichsen, one the world’s leading experts in body disposal in the late 19 th and early 20 th centuries, wrote of the Belgian government’s efforts along these lines in a battle in 1814. The individual charged with body disposal was named Creteur.

                  [Creteur] determined to cover the graves with a layer of chloride of lime, and to pour diluted muriatic acid upon them subsequently. By this means he succeeded in laying bare the topmost layer of the corpses. He then had large quantities of coal poured into the pit… He then had more chloride of lime heaped upon the corpses, and finally had bundles of hay, previously saturated with kerosene thrown into the pit. Creteur declares that from 200 to 300 were consumed within 50 to 60 minutes…. About one fourth of all the contents remained in the pits, consisting of calcined bones and a dry mass. These were again covered with chloride of lime, and the trenches were closed. In this way 45,855 human and equine bodies were disposed of. [280]

                  Dr. Erichsen then advocated using this technique in time of war. “Under the existing circumstances, I think Creteur’s method would be best. By this means, several hundred bodies would be destroyed at once.” It stands to reason that if the Belgians could do this in 1814, Germany certainly had the capability to improve on the process 130 years later. Deniers like Mattogno would have people believe that the Germans of World War II were incapable of replicating the achievements of an early 19 th century European country.

                  Many of the eyewitnesses to the outdoor burnings at Auschwitz stated that gasoline was used to dispose of the bodies, something that Mattogno did not mention. [281] The Germans used gasoline to dispose of bodies at Bergen-Belsen, [282] Majdanek, [283] and the Operation Reinhard extermination camps. [284] Like Dr.Frolich and the Belgian army in 1814, Sonderkommando Filip Müller addressed the specific problem Mattogno mentioned:

                  …[I]n the pits the fire would burn only as long as the air could circulate freely between the bodies. As the heap of bodies settled, no air was able to get in from the outside. This meant that we stokers had constantly to pour oil or wood alcohol on the burning corpses…

                  About fifteen stokers had to place the fuel in the pit and to light and maintain the fire by constantly stoking in between the corpses and pouring oil, wood alcohol and liquid human fat over them. [285]

                  Sonderkommando Paul Bendel also mentioned using human fat to accelerate the open air burning process. [286]”

                  https://web.archive.org/web/20150325001007/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal

                  “Duck, duck , duck….”

                  Not this time.

                  Jeff wrote: “No room? My issue is logistics, not space. My issue is the conditions that existed on the Eastern Front, not that there wasn’t room to park Europe’s Jews.”

                  “14 Jews aggregated in each room of a ghetto instead of 4 as previously. Logistical issue solved. Easy. See?😉”

                  Logistical issue as in how do you move 1.5 million Jews into an active military zone.

                  “The Russians dumped and kept millions of Jews in their ‘Pale of Settlement’ during centuries. The German armies captured the former Russian ‘Pale’ and even more. What makes you think that the Germans would have been unable to do what the Czar and his guys had easily achieved during centuries?”

                  Well, they would need to coordinate train schedules to move that amount of Jews into an active miliatary zone. Show me the train schedules, that solves your problem.
                  Also, we are dealing with a very specific time period, the Spring of 1942 to the Fall of 1943. When, exactly, did these Jews arrive at the alleged camps in the Soviet Union?
                  Also, are you also saying this is where the Hungarian Jews wound up? A little hard to do, considering the Germans no longer possesed territory in the USSR at the time of those deportations.

                  Jeff wrote: “Personally I think the Germans would have tried a territorial “Final Solution” had they won in the USSR. The problem is they didn’t. So the idea that the Germans tried to expel the Polish Jews along with other European Jews in 1942, 1943 and 1944 strikes me as far fetched while the Germans were fighting tooth and nail against the Red Army.”

                  “The ghettos and camps in Far Eastern Europe needed to be guarded anyway, whether they were half-crowded, fully-crowded or vastly overcrowded. Bringing some trains full of unwanted & unneeed Jews and some additional food in there doesn’t look like an insurmountable obstacle, not insurmountable enough to deter Hitler from implementing his pre-war threat that way. Do you really think Hitler loved Jews so much as to worry about their wellbeing or non-wellbeing in the ghettos and camps of Far Eastern Europe? C’mon…”

                  Of course I don’t believe that Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Eichman, etc. cared about the well being of any Jews. Hitler cared about winning the war in the USSR, though. So much that Himmler had to beg for trains in the Summer of 1942 for his “deportations.” Much easier to send Jews to killing sites in Poland than send them into active military zones in the USSR….

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 9, 2016 @ 4:39 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “Glad to see you admit it.”

                  How could I deny the unimpeachable probative nature of testominial evidence? Impossible! Not after that stuff successfully proved the existence of homicidal gas chambers during WW1, human soap factories during both world wars, women having sex with the Devil himself, Nazi human-skin lampshades and book covers, homicidal gassings at Dachau, Jesus Christ’s mother visiting us, a tall anthropoid ape haunting the forests of North America, alien abductions, ghosts around us, a living plesiosaur (or gang of plesiosaurs) in a Scottish lake, Saddam’s Anthrax-making mobile factories, electric ‘death chambers’ at Belzec, etc. One must be completely mad or stupid not to believe so many testimonies.

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, apparently people burned bodies in pits for a long time:”

                  The world-famous tar pits of Auschwitz. Be sure you don’t miss them new time you visit Auschwitz.😉

                  Gasoline ponds, tar pits, coal craters, nothing even close to what was claimed about that camp. After this claim, don’t tell me again about scarce resources and war deprivations preventing, according to you, any deportation of numerous Jews to Far Eastern Europe…

                  Jeff wrote: “how do you move 1.5 million Jews into an active military zone.”

                  Quite the same way that I bring the vast amounts resources and equipments needed for my troops there. Choo choo. Woof woof. See?

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, they would need to coordinate train schedules to move that amount of Jews into an active miliatary zone. Show me the train schedules, that solves your problem.”

                  Not until you’ve shown me the delivery notes and transportation vouchers for the huge amounts of wood supposedly delievered to the Reinhardt camps. You first!! The accuser first! You know this shit now. You’ve heard it all before…

                  Comment by hermie — April 9, 2016 @ 8:28 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “Glad to see you admit it.”

                  “How could I deny the unimpeachable probative nature of testominial evidence? Impossible! Not after that stuff successfully proved the existence of homicidal gas chambers during WW1, human soap factories during both world wars, women having sex with the Devil himself, Nazi human-skin lampshades and book covers, homicidal gassings at Dachau, Jesus Christ’s mother visiting us, a tall anthropoid ape haunting the forests of North America, alien abductions, ghosts around us, a living plesiosaur (or gang of plesiosaurs) in a Scottish lake, Saddam’s Anthrax-making mobile factories, electric ‘death chambers’ at Belzec, etc. One must be completely mad or stupid not to believe so many testimonies.”

                  You wrote something. I’ll interpret all of that as “duck, duck, duck.”

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, apparently people burned bodies in pits for a long time:”

                  “The world-famous tar pits of Auschwitz. Be sure you don’t miss them new time you visit Auschwitz.😉”

                  “Gasoline ponds, tar pits, coal craters, nothing even close to what was claimed about that camp. After this claim, don’t tell me again about scarce resources and war deprivations preventing, according to you, any deportation of numerous Jews to Far Eastern Europe…”

                  Um, Hermie. Silesia is a major coal producing area, it’s one of the things that attracted the Nazis to the site:

                  “The most important part of Silesia is, however, its southern tip—Upper Silesia, in Poland. One of the largest industrial concentrations of Europe, it has extensive coal and lignite deposits and zinc, lead, iron, and other ores. The industrial area around Katowice comprises such important centers as Bytom, Gliwice, Zabrze, and Częstochowa, and has iron and steel mills, coke ovens, and chemical plants. Opole, the former capital of Upper Silesia”

                  http://www.britannica.com/place/Silesia

                  Auschwitz-Monowitz also produced Methanol, which is also highly flammable:

                  http://www.wollheim-memorial.de/en/was_sollte_fabrik_produzieren

                  The camp also harvested the surrounding forest for wood. Still having trouble figuring out where they got the fuel?

                  Jeff wrote: “how do you move 1.5 million Jews into an active military zone.”

                  Quite the same way that I bring the vast amounts resources and equipments needed for my troops there. Choo choo. Woof woof. See?

                  See, if it waddles and quacks it’s a DUCK.

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, they would need to coordinate train schedules to move that amount of Jews into an active miliatary zone. Show me the train schedules, that solves your problem.”

                  “Not until you’ve shown me the delivery notes and transportation vouchers for the huge amounts of wood supposedly delievered to the Reinhardt camps. You first!! The accuser first! You know this shit now. You’ve heard it all before…”

                  Duck, duck, duck.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 9, 2016 @ 9:32 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “You wrote something. I’ll interpret all of that as “duck, duck, duck.””

                  Got you…

                  Jeff wrote: “Um, Hermie. Silesia is a major coal producing area, it’s one of the things that attracted the Nazis to the site:”

                  I know that. Didn’t I mention that often enough concerning Auschwitz’s industrial purposes?

                  So now coal was used in the fictional Auschwitz burning pits?!? Are you claiming the Nazis used Creteur’s technique at Auschwitz? You’re going beyond the most crazy Holo-propagandists’ extravagant claims to save your dear faith from its own nonsenses. 100% pathetic…

                  Jeff wrote: “The camp also harvested the surrounding forest for wood. Still having trouble figuring out where they got the fuel?”

                  No wood in the alleged Auschwitz burning pits. Human fat only. You’re seemingly confusing the fictional Auschwitz burning pits with the fictional Reinhardt pyres.

                  Jeff wrote: “See, if it waddles and quacks it’s a DUCK.”

                  Double shot.

                  I’m good today…😉

                  Comment by hermie — April 10, 2016 @ 11:27 am

                • Read it again, Hermie:
                  “of the eyewitnesses to the outdoor burnings at Auschwitz stated that gasoline was used to dispose of the bodies, something that Mattogno did not mention. [281] The Germans used gasoline to dispose of bodies at Bergen-Belsen, [282] Majdanek, [283] and the Operation Reinhard extermination camps. [284] Like Dr.Frolich and the Belgian army in 1814, Sonderkommando Filip Müller addressed the specific problem Mattogno mentioned:

                  …[I]n the pits the fire would burn only as long as the air could circulate freely between the bodies. As the heap of bodies settled, no air was able to get in from the outside. This meant that we stokers had constantly to pour oil or wood alcohol on the burning corpses…

                  About fifteen stokers had to place the fuel in the pit and to light and maintain the fire by constantly stoking in between the corpses and pouring oil, wood alcohol and liquid human fat over them. [285]

                  Sonderkommando Paul Bendel also mentioned using human fat to accelerate the open air burning process. [286]”

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 10, 2016 @ 11:56 am

                • “Auschwitz, Commandant Höss was facing the difficult problem of disposing of thousands of bodies. At first, they were buried in a large field, but the graves could not be dug deep enough and the bodies putrefied in the summer heat. Jewish prisoners, such as Otto Pressburger, were ordered to exhume them:

                  “We had to dig the bodies out and burn them. A big fire was made here with wood and petrol and we were throwing them right into it. There were always two of us throwing the bodies in, one holding the legs and one on the arms. The smell and the stench was terrible. The bodies were not only bloody but rotten as well. We were given some rags to put over our faces.

                  “The SS men were constantly drinking vodka or cognac or something else from their bottles. They couldn’t cope with it either. It was terrible.

                  – Otto Pressburger, Auschwitz survivor

                  To deal with Auschwitz’s body disposal problem, Rudolf Höss journeyed in September 1942 to a remote area of Poland near the small village of Chelmno. He wanted to talk with SS Colonel Paul Blobel, an expert in remains disposal, who had been experimenting with a new type of field cremation unit.

                  Polish Barracks
                  New field cremation units helped the Nazis get rid of large numbers of bodies (graphic reconstruction).
                  The units were large fire pits with grates at the bottom on which to stack alternate layers of bodies and wood. Gasoline was used to start the fires. On the whole, the new installations worked very well, allowing the Nazis to dispose of large quantities of bodies.”

                  More info about Auschwitz burning pits.
                  http://www.pbs.org/auschwitz/40-45/factories/1942b.html

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 10, 2016 @ 2:04 pm

                • I wrote about Rudolf Höss on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/History/Articles/RudolfHoess.html He was tortured by British Jews until he confessed to what they wanted him to say. You can’t rely on anything that he confessed after being tortured.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 10, 2016 @ 5:02 pm

                • Really? At his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess blamed the condition of the concentration camps on allied bombing.
                  Do you think someone tortured him to say that?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 10, 2016 @ 5:07 pm

                • Testimonies…the last resort of desperate exterminationists. So sad…

                  Comment by hermie — April 10, 2016 @ 7:49 pm

                • Yes. I know. Confronted by an answer you duck.

                  Easier to just squeak.

                  BTW, I am still looking at the blue print for the corpse cellar.
                  All of the literature I have states the ventilation equipment was in the walls and in the ceiling, nothing about it being on the floor.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 10, 2016 @ 7:55 pm

                • What’s a corpse cellar? I’m guessing it’s self explanatory,but what are the specifics of one?

                  Comment by Tim — April 10, 2016 @ 9:39 pm

                • Originally the gas chambers were designed as morgues, later converted.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 10, 2016 @ 10:08 pm

                • You wrote: “Originally the gas chambers were designed as morgues, later converted.”

                  The alleged gas chamber in the Auschwitz main camp was originally a morgue, which was converted into a bomb shelter for the German personnel in the camp. The Soviet liberators of the camp converted the bomb shelter into an alleged gas chamber.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 6:44 am

                • You are talking about the first Krema, Krema I.
                  The Germans converted the first Krema into a gas chamber, subsequently deactivated it, turned it into a bomb shelter. The Soviets and Poles subsequently recreated the gas chamber.

                  Kremas II-V started as morgues in the original blue prints but then converted to gas chambers.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 8:18 am

                • You wrote: “”The Germans converted the first Krema into a gas chamber, subsequently deactivated it, turned it into a bomb shelter. The Soviets and Poles subsequently recreated the gas chamber.”

                  No, you have it wrong. The alleged gas chamber in the main Auschwitz camp was at first a crematorium, right next to the oven room. It was then converted into a bomb shelter, with a new door being added, so that the SS men could go into the crematorium in case of a bomb attack.

                  After the Auschwitz camp was liberated by the Soviets, they added holes on the roof where they then claimed that Zyklon-B had been thrown through these square holes.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 10:23 am

                • Sorry, you are right. I missed a step.
                  First, it was a crematorium, THEN a gas chamber, then an air raid shelter.
                  After the war the Poles and Soviets reconstructed the room into the gas chamber.

                  http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-04.html

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 10:53 am

                • You wrote: “First, it was a crematorium, THEN a gas chamber, then an air raid shelter.”

                  You give niskor as your source. Niskor is a very old website. I am not sure, but I think that all the people who created this website are now dead and it has not been updated for many years.

                  Niskor has it wrong.
                  The building in the main Auschwitz camp was first a crematorium, THEN an air raid shelter. It was never a gas chamber, until the Soviets modified the building and turned it into an alleged gas chamber, which was never used for gassing Jews.
                  I have explained all this on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08.html

                  There are several pages about the Auschwitz gas chamber, so be sure that you follow the links at the bottom of the page and read it all.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 12:38 pm

                • Well, it’s all a matter of perspective. To me, Nizkor is a very educational site. I’d recommend it to anyone who has questions. There are others….Holocaust Controversies is a good one, they make a point of pointing out denier errors..but I still recommend Nizkor. After all, Leuchter’s report is what, almost 40 years old? You still find it valid, why isn’t Nizkor?

                  As for Krema I, I realize your belief system prevents you from believing what the Germans did during WW II. History records what the Germans did, just as it records what the Communists did. I have no illusions about either, or for that matter, what the Western Allies did. But everything stems from German actions. By invading Poland and the USSR and declaring war on the US Hitler reaped what he sowed. It is a terrible tragedy that Europe got caught in the middle.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 1:06 pm

                • You wrote: “Nizkor is a very educational site. I’d recommend it to anyone who has questions.”

                  Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you. It is badly outdated.

                  I have blogged about Nizkor at
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/nizkor/

                  I also wrote about the Mauthausen gas chamber at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/nazi-mass-murder-the-gas-chamber-at-mauthausen/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 1:44 pm

                • So is Leuchter’s report.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 2:05 pm

                • What’s the difference between a “crematorium ” and a “oven room”? Don’t they both serve the same purpose? The ruskies drilled holes in the roof so they could claim,”that’s where they dumped the zyklon in”. I thought the Krauts had a machine that dispensed the pellets. If that’s the case,why didn’t anyone challenge that at the trial?

                  Comment by Tim — April 11, 2016 @ 4:18 pm

                • Jeff Kross Section is talking about his struggle with the nonsensical design of his so dear gas chambers, Tim. He’s referring to a debate we’ve had on here: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/crushing-the-bones-of-the-holocaust-victims/#comment-61232

                  Comment by hermie — April 11, 2016 @ 3:43 am

                • I’ve gone through Pressac’s book regarding the ventilation system.
                  He did have a conversation with a denier regarding the arrangement of the ventilation systems. I was wrong, your interpretation is correct.
                  However, Pressac solved this issue by simply removing any bodies blocking the ventilation system and then starting the ventilation systems to clear the air using Sondercommando wearing gas masks. The Sondercommando describe instances where they wore gas masks to clear bodies.
                  So, not an insurmountable problem considering the rooms were originally designed as morgues, not gas chambers.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 8:46 am

                • You wrote: “I’ve gone through Pressac’s book regarding the ventilation system.”

                  I wrote about Pressac and the gas chambers in this blog post:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/pressac/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 9:27 am

                • Why, if you wanted a copy of Pressac’s book, you could have asked.

                  https://web.archive.org/web/20110717014945/http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0011.shtml

                  I haven’t read all of it, it’s a bit technical for me.

                  BTW, Pressac leaned in the “revisionist” direction but changed his mind after studying the information at Auschwitz, you know, unlike Leuchter, who didn’t.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 10:48 am

                • I mentioned Pressac on this page of my website:
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08A.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 1:01 pm

                • I read something about him. It said he just he just flat out denied it,until after he visited Auschwitz. Then he changed his tune. Here’s the part that don’t make sense. He’s called the “published authority ” on the gas house at Auschwitz. I thought he was a “chemist”. If that’s the case,why am I listening to him about what a building is or isn’t . I read where he’s telling everyone about how the ventilation system worked . Now he’s an HVAC tech? All I’m saying is,I’m going to a structural engineer if I have questions about a building. Not a chemist. I have seen that both sides here,put people out there that are supposed to experts on certain topics in this subject. Then it turns out the person is not an authority on the subject they speak of. Like I said,it happens on both sides here.

                  Comment by Tim — April 11, 2016 @ 4:44 pm

                • Apparently Faurrison thought enough of him to send him to Auschwitz for him, Tim,

                  I actually understand where you are coming from regarding “experts,” Tim. I’ve never understood using Fred Leuchter to examine the ruins at Birkenau. To me an architect or an engineer plus a chemist makes more sense. Gemar Rudolph at least is a chemist. Someone could have directed Zundel to an architect or an engineer.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 5:12 pm

                • Like I said,both sides are guilty of doing this. Even if an engineer or architect backed this guys book up,I’d be okay with reading it.

                  Comment by Tim — April 11, 2016 @ 5:15 pm

                • Tim wrote: “what are the specifics of one?”

                  A corpse cellar / morgue (‘Leichenkeller’ in German) is a cold room preferably ventilated and, in the case of corpses to be incinerated, located near crematory ovens.

                  In the exterminationist narrative of Auschwitz-Birkenau, some corpses cellars were in fact gas chambers while others were undressing rooms.

                  Comment by hermie — April 11, 2016 @ 4:03 am

                • Jeff wrote: “I’ve gone through Pressac’s book regarding the ventilation system. He did have a conversation with a denier regarding the arrangement of the ventilation systems. I was wrong, your interpretation is correct.”

                  Everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

                  Jeff wrote: “However, Pressac solved this issue by simply removing any bodies blocking the ventilation system and then starting the ventilation systems to clear the air using Sondercommando wearing gas masks. The Sondercommando describe instances where they wore gas masks to clear bodies. So, not an insurmountable problem considering the rooms were originally designed as morgues, not gas chambers.”

                  No way anybody could perform a physical exertion as significant as dragging a number of corpses with a gas mask of the 1940’s on. Especially true for anti-cyanide gas masks. The anti-Zyklon filter was too ‘fragile’ to bear such a thing. Hyperventilating under such conditions would have saturated the filter very fast, so making it inoperative after a very short while.

                  Comment by hermie — April 11, 2016 @ 4:32 pm

                • “No way anybody could perform a physical exertion as significant as dragging a number of corpses with a gas mask of the 1940’s on. Especially true for anti-cyanide gas masks. The anti-Zyklon filter was too ‘fragile’ to bear such a thing. Hyperventilating under such conditions would have saturated the filter very fast, so making it inoperative after a very short while.”

                  There were a lot of them. Plus, their SS overseers didn’t give a damn about their welfare.
                  Opening the doors and allowing the room to air out for a short period of time would reduce the concentration of HCN in the air enough to make it reasonably safe for men with gas masks to move about. Also they would only need to do this if there were bodies blocking the ventilation system.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 5:01 pm

                • Did they use the same kind of masks the men at the front were using?

                  Comment by Tim — April 11, 2016 @ 5:12 pm

                • That’s an interesting question. I don’t know, I don’t think so.
                  These were specific gas masks. I don’t remember if gas masks were a part of the German infantry kit. I’ll have to take a look.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 11, 2016 @ 5:23 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “There were a lot of them. Plus, their SS overseers didn’t give a damn about their welfare. Opening the doors and allowing the room to air out for a short period of time would reduce the concentration of HCN in the air enough to make it reasonably safe for men with gas masks to move about.”

                  I wasn’t talking about the welfare of the Sonderkommandos. I was talking about their survival long enough to be able to finish the job, certainly something their SS overseers would have given a damn.

                  Would the introduction of cyanide gas into the rest of the crematory buildings (what your passive ventilation by opening the doors for a while implies) have been a good idea? I don’t think so…

                  Jeff wrote: “Also they would only need to do this if there were bodies blocking the ventilation system.”

                  With or without bodies blocking the air extraction ducts, the main problem with that reverse ventilation system remained unsolved anyway. Understanding that one couldn’t/can’t effectively vent a light gas like HCN out of a room with air extraction ducts close to the floor is not rocket science. Light gases go up and heavy gases go down. Basic physics. With such a ventilation system, the fresh air that had just been pumped in (heavier than HCN) would have been pumped out continuously, while a lethal amount of HCN would have stayed above, quite untouched, floating in the upper half of the room like a killer cloud waiting for the arrival of its next victims.

                  So ridiculously amateurish! So unworkable! So laughable! So nonsensical!!

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 3:02 am

                • Pressac’s fix:

                  “ANNEX

                  GAS 3000 PEOPLE IN LEICHENKELLER I OF KREMATORIUM II?
                  IMPOSSIBLE, THE BODIES WOULD HAVE BLOCKED
                  THE LOWER AIR EXTRACTION ORIFICES

                  (Reply to the argument in a letter from a revisionist)

                  Following the exchange of letters and telephone calls with a correspondent who doubts the reality of the gas chambers, I have extracted two of his arguments that appear to me valid.

                  Describing the ventilation system of Leichenkeller I [of the future Krematorium II as per the cross-section on drawing 933], he pointed out to me that the air entered through the upper orifices, then was extracted through the lower ones, and concluded:

                  “This arrangement is perfectly suitable if the room is used as a morgue: the air entering cools, becomes denser, and is extracted from the lower part.”

                  He then asked me to imagine:
                  “the situation in the LK 1 after the gassing of a large number of people: the corpses are heaped on top of one another; they block most of the air extraction orifices; the room is full of warm toxic gas; how can there be rapid and efficient mechanical ventilation? I would say that it is nor possible…”

                  These remarks mean that Leichenkeller I used as a gas chamber had a poorly designed ventilation system and in the case of large-scale gassings [3000 people in 210 m² according to Nyiszli, or 13.3 per square meter], the lower orifices being blocked ventilation would become impossible [a model visible at the Museum illustrates this “maximum” case, though there are probably no more than one thousand victims depicted].

                  The figure of 3000 is theoretical and exaggerated, but if we take it as correct, then so is my correspondent’s hypothesis and the ventilation is blocked and cannot work.

                  What would the SS have done in the case of such an “incident”?

                  They would have proceeded in two stages:

                  1. Open wide the doors giving basement access through the north yard and those of the undressing room, whose ventilation system working at full power would prevent the basement being contaminated:

                  Before putting on their gas masks, the SS would have then ordered two to four members of the Sonderkommando to put on masks, open the gas chamber door and drag bodies out into the vestibule until several of the air extraction orifices had been cleared. Then the gas-tight door would have been closed again, the ventilation restarted, and to improve its efficiency all that was required was to open the Zyklon-B introduction covers, but not until that moment. After verifying by means of a gas detector that there was no longer any danger of hydrocyanic acid intoxication outside the gas chamber, operations would have resumed their “normal” course.
                  2. Once the gas chamber had been emptied, a squad of fitters or bricklayers would have fixed at the end of the chamber, in the southeast corner a steel duct of about 20 cm diameter and 2 meters high or built a brick chimney of about the same dimensions connecting with or protecting one of the lower air extraction orifices and enabling it to take in warm contaminated air from above. The time taken for the “repair” would not have been longer than an afternoon. Such an incident would not have interrupted the “operation” of the Krematorium. As the documents we possess at present make no mention of such work we can assume for the moment that the case of the “3000” never occurred, the number of victims from a convoy always being less than this.

                  The initial ventilation system of Leichenkeller I, which was designed for a basement morgue, is not a “definitive” obstacle to using the room as a gas chamber.”

                  I’m not an engineer or an architect but this seems viable.

                  The SS improvised and used buildings differently than their original function. Nothing wrong with that, it was war time and they had to make do.

                  But to say it was impossible to use these rooms as gas chambers is ridiculous. Again, it isn’t hard to convert a building for this use. Even if the ventilation system did not work as well as it should the rooms could be aired out manually. They were empty concrete rooms, no furniture, carpets, etc. to hold up airing them out.
                  Again, the argument of “well, they were Germans they would have done it differently” holds no weight.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 12, 2016 @ 10:24 am

                • You mentioned Dr.Nyiszli. I believe that Dr. Nyiszli was never at Auschwitz, nor in any other camp. I wrote about him here: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/15/eye-witness-description-of-the-procedure-used-in-the-auschwitz-birkenau-gas-chambers/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 12, 2016 @ 12:09 pm

                • You need to take a trip to Poland, as fast as you can. When you get to the Auschwitz main camp, you need to take a shortcut and get inside the gas chamber before the tour groups enter. The gas chamber is now kept in a darkened condition so that tourists can’t see anything. You will need to stand inside the chamber until your eyes adjust to the light. Even then, you might not be able to see the gas chamber clearly. In that case, you can go to my website where you can see a good photo of the gas chamber: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 12, 2016 @ 12:22 pm

                • I really like the original “Scrapbook Pages” website. You take really good photographs.

                  When I first came across your blog I checked out any links you linked back to your original website. I spent some time browsing through the website, I also noticed that your site comes up when I run “searches.” I still go through your website on occasion.
                  Unlike others who reply here I don’t want you updating the website, even if you could. You mentioned that you could no longer update it.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 12, 2016 @ 12:31 pm

                • They had gas masks. What about exposed skin? They have anything to protect that? I’m asking because I heard this shit can raise hell with the human body by way of the skin.

                  Comment by Tim — April 12, 2016 @ 11:00 pm

                • It depends on the length of exposure plus the concentration of the cyanide. The Sondercommando went into rooms that were aired out so the concentration of the cyanide was low to begin with.
                  Remember, Heinrich Himmler committed suicide with cyanide. The British pumped his stomach, tried to force his jaws open, etc. None of them suffered from exposure to the cyanide that Himmler took.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 13, 2016 @ 8:22 am

                • You wrote: “The Sondercommando went into rooms that were aired out so the concentration of the cyanide was low to begin with.”

                  The Sondercommando went into morgues where dead bodies were kept. The bodies might have been sprayed with Zyklon-B to kill the lice on the bodies. These prisoners had not been gassed; they had died of disease, especially typhus that is spread by lice. The alleged gas chamber in the main Auschwitz camp is the only one that has survived. You can see a photo of this alleged gas chamber on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08.html

                  You can see photos of the oven room on this page of my website: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08B.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 13, 2016 @ 8:31 am

                • “The Sondercommando went into morgues where dead bodies were kept. The bodies might have been sprayed with Zyklon-B to kill the lice on the bodies.”

                  You can’t spray Zyclon B. ZB is a trade name for a pesticide, it was pellets infused with cyanide. You could sprinkle a body, I suppose.

                  The problem with that is that it wouldn’t work very well unless you left the bodies in the room for a bit so the cyanide could diffuse throughout the room to kill the bugs. To kill bugs it takes time, I believe up to 20 hours is what the exposure time is to kill lice.

                  The problem with that is the bodies start to decompose unless you leave them in a very cold room. This of course brings up the problem of how well the ZB would diffuse in a room cold enough to slow or stop the process of decomposition.

                  You are better off stripping the bodies and burning them. That takes care of the lice problem on the bodies. You can then take the clothes to a delousing building and use the ZB there. As far as exposing the Sondercommando to the lice the Germans used a liquid chemical to kill lice on incoming prisoners that they didn’t gas so you could do the same for the Sondercommando. I think the Sondercommando also had access to showers so that would help as well.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 13, 2016 @ 8:51 am

                • The bugs themselves. The eggs are another story. The eggs have such a slow metabolism rate,that the chemical doesn’t really faze the eggs. In order to be effective on the adult bug,the chemical has to get in every crack,no matter how small

                  Comment by Tim — April 13, 2016 @ 3:58 pm

                • This is why the recommended length of exposure is 20 hours, Tim. The recommended concentration is 16,000 PPM. Humans die a lot easier, 300 PPM and 30 minutes. Up the dose humans die quicker.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 13, 2016 @ 4:58 pm

                • Okay so that ups their production numbers,but isn’t the time needed to clear out the bodies gonna affect the production. They get numbers and clear people out real quick,but would having to wait for the gas house to clear out,cut right back into the numbers? If they get the right combination of the chemical mix,they can keep production up,but it’ll never bec100%,because of the time to vent the building. Did they ever separate kids from the adults? I’m asking because it seems like you could pack the kids like canned sardines. Due to the fact their children. Forgive me for how I put this,but it seems to me if they did the kids separate,the Krauts would get more,”bang for their buck”. I just got to thinking about something. All the pics I’ve ever seen of the piles of Jew bodies,I’ve never seen women and children in those piles of bodies. Did the allies not release pics of the women and children that were murdered because they thought it would be too much for the average citizen to absorb? That’s just something I realized just now

                  Comment by Tim — April 13, 2016 @ 7:08 pm

                • You wrote: “Did they ever separate kids from the adults? I’m asking because it seems like you could pack the kids like canned sardines. Due to the fact their children. Forgive me for how I put this,but it seems to me if they did the kids separate,the Krauts would get more,”bang for their buck”.”

                  Excuse me!!! I believe that you are totally wrong about the “krauts.” Have you ever been to Germany? The “krauts” are the nicest people that you will ever meet. They are very considerate and polite. For example, the “krauts” did not send the children to their deaths, separated from their parents. The adults and the children were gassed at the same time. Every Holocaust True Believer knows that. The gas chambers were filled to capacity with adults; then the children were thrown in on top. This meant that the children died quicker, because the gas fumes rose to the top of the gas chamber. Get your story straight, as Sheldon Cooper would say on The Big Bang TV show.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 14, 2016 @ 8:29 am

                • You made the comment one time you were being “sarcastic” about some comment that someone called you down on. You couldn’t figure that out from mine? Quit living in TV land . I don’t give 2 shits about Shelton from Big Bang show. It’s liberal TV anyhow. Get my story straight? I was asking why it is that of all the pics of the stiffs,only show men? I’ve yet to see one with women and children in the pics. What I meant by that was,if the nazis killed as many people as they did,why ain’t there any pics of dead women and children? I’ve said it again and again. I don’t believe or deny this shit happened in WW2. I’m trying to figure this all out. I’m my own person. I’ve always been,so don’t label me true believer or otherwise. As far as “get my stories straight”. I wasn’t telling any stories. Once again I was questioning shit. I ain’t never said the first God damn thing about the Krauts being polite or not. Don’t go jumping dead in my shit,because you think I’m hammering down on the German folks . Many is the time I’ve took their side here.

                  Comment by Tim — April 14, 2016 @ 8:58 am

                • You wrote: “What I meant by that was,if the nazis killed as many people as they did,why ain’t there any pics of dead women and children?”

                  You are correct. I have searched and searched for photos of dead women and children, and have found nothing. There are only two explanations for this: The Germans had great respect for women and children, so they didn’t kill them — or the Germans did not photograph the bodies of women and children, out of respect for them.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 14, 2016 @ 9:53 am

                • The last two lines of your comment is what I was driving towards. A person can’t tell me that somewhere there’s not a pic of dead women and children. If there are dead children,it seems like Ike would’ve made that his ace in the hole. Trying to gather sympathy by using dead children. Out of 6 million ( or whatever today’s number is) people murdered by the nazis,there’s no pics of women and children? The allies were taking happy snaps left and right, but none of the pics have females or children in them. I’m not trying to be morbid,but can somebody produce a pic with dead women and children in it? I figure they would’ve had pics like that at the courthouse. Prosecuting attorney could’ve gotten a ton of mileage outta that. I’m just saying it seems a bit odd that pics like that have never surfaced

                  Comment by Tim — April 14, 2016 @ 10:11 am

                • Here, Tim:

                  Some of these are somewhat disturbing. These are pictures taken by the Einsatsgruppen or their proxies.
                  As far as I know no one ever took pictures of corpses after gassing.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 10:23 am

                • I’ve seen the 3rd picture on a lot of documentaries dealing with the holo. Those folks were killed by being shot,right? The people that were gunned down. Do they figure into the overall number of the dead? Are they part of the 6 million number?

                  Comment by Tim — April 14, 2016 @ 10:38 am

                • There are three parts to the Holocaust, Tim.

                  1) Death by disease, starvation and physical mistreatment. The Germans packed the Jews into overcrowded ghettos and limited the food supply. That many people packed together increases the chance of disease, malnutrition decreases the body’s ability to fight off disease and of course the Germans subjected the Jews to maltreatment. This is also the primary method used to kill 2 million Soviet POWs in the Summer and fall of 1941 and the Spring and Summer of 1942.

                  2) Death by shooting. The Einsatzgruppen Death Squads followed the German army after the invasion of the Soviet Union. Their original purpose was to kill Soviet Commisars, Jews and other resisters. The reality is they targeted Jews almost from the start, military age men first, then women and children starting in August of 1941. The Einsatzgruppen, Order Police, SS Cavalry and local proxies probably killed close to 2 million Jews from 1941-1943.

                  3) Death by gas. Starting in the Fall of 1941 the SS started experimenting with using mobile gas vans on Jews, culminating in the opening of Chelmno in December of 1941. Chelmno used gas vans to kill but utilized a manor house as a base. This led to the creation of the Operation Reinhard Camps, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. These camps used Carbon Monoxide gas to kill but utilized fixed gas chambers instead of mobile gas vans. In the Fall of 1941 the SS began experimenting with use of Zyclon B. Hoess felt that ZB was a better killing agent than Carbon Monoxide. Majdanek also used ZB. The Germans also used gas to euthanize the mentally and physically disabled, using bottled Carbon Monoxide gas.

                  Holocaust deniers only focus on gassing and primarily focus on Birkenau. There are books written by deniers on the Operation Reinhard Camps but their focus has always been on Auschwitz.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 10:58 am

                • I forgot about these, Tim.

                  https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-sonderkommando-photos/

                  Here is some background on these pictures:

                  http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-auschwitz-burning-open-air.html?m=1

                  Holocaust deniers scream these are fakes. This is the usual response when confronted with evidence.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 10:37 am

                • I don’t think photo 281 is fake. The person who took the photo looks to be standing in the shadows,in the doorway of a building. I figure the person is in that spot so they wouldn’t be seen taking snap shots. The person knew something illegal was going on there and didn’t want to be seen. That’s just my view on the picture

                  Comment by Tim — April 14, 2016 @ 10:46 am

                • Your analysis of the photographers motives are correct. The person risked his life to take those pictures. It was a brave thing to do.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 11:10 am

                • Okay. If they’re handling the stiffs that have zyklon residue on them,they’d still be in danger of the chemical in its dry form,entering through the skin,right? I don’t know how long it takes for the chemical properties of the zyklon residue to break down,but I don’t think it would be in the space of a couple hours. All I’m saying here is,I don’t see how they (nazis) got the production numbers everyone said they did. This chemical is some lethal shit. Everyone says,”let the shit air out for a couple hours and we’re off on the next batch”. Don’t make sense .

                  Comment by Tim — April 13, 2016 @ 3:53 pm

                • That’s kinda like comparing apples and oranges. Himmler to a capsule. The cyanide in the gas house is a huge amount compared to a capsule. They way I see,I don’t think either group ( nazi guards or Jews) held a degree in chemistry,so I don’t think they had any business telling someone if it’s safe or not to go in. The closest I can relate to that would be Agent Orange. By the time I got to Nam that shit was pretty much ancient history. I never had contact with it,but I’ve read about men that did. Clearly no one at the DOD was a chemist. They let people walk on in. Now years later,the men suffer cause of the DODs ignorance. That’s how I look at the cyanide. Nobody at the prisons were qualified to risk someone else’s ass or not. Clearly they didn’t care that much about the Jew inmates,but I don’t think they’re gonna want to keep replacing people due to their own ignorance of the chemical makeup of the gas. If you were to ask one of the prison guards that were involved in that part of the operation,what does “parts per million ” mean,they’d probably look at you like you got a booger hanging on your nose. That’s why I mentioned I don’t think they’re qualified to make those decisions

                  Comment by Tim — April 13, 2016 @ 3:43 pm

                • Tim wrote: “What’s the difference between a “crematorium ” and a “oven room”? Don’t they both serve the same purpose? ”

                  A crematorium is an entire building. A oven room is a specific room of a crematorium. All crematoria of course have a oven room. But crematoria may also have other rooms such as morgues, dissection rooms, storage rooms for funeral urns, waiting rooms for mourners and any other kind of rooms potentially needed in such facilities.

                  Tim wrote: “The ruskies drilled holes in the roof so they could claim,”that’s where they dumped the zyklon in”. I thought the Krauts had a machine that dispensed the pellets. If that’s the case,why didn’t anyone challenge that at the trial?”

                  They had such machines (machines dispensing cyanide gas, not Zyklon pellets), Tim. Machines such as this one:


                  (Dachau)

                  They used a similar machinery to delouse entire trains with Zyklon in large gas chambers for that specific use (special delousing gas tunnels).

                  But surprisingly they didn’t opt for that existing technology when they supposedly decided to mass murder herds of Jews in communal gas chambers. They patently preferred the ‘artisanal way’, the un-German way…

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 3:43 am

                • I read where they used zyklon early on in the last century on the rail cars coming in from Mexico . They used other chemicals on the wetbacks that were coming into this country. I figure if they want people to believe something is a gas house,why drill holes in the ceiling? That would seem like a careless way to handle dangerous chemicals. Clearly the courts were made up of ass kissing fools,that were stupid enough to buy into that.

                  Comment by Tim — April 12, 2016 @ 10:49 pm

                • Pressac’s scenario is pure science-fiction! Ridiculous and even embarrassing. Now I can understand why most exterminationists so rarely, if ever, bring up or quote Pressac.

                  Has any [alleged] witness ever mentioned even a tiny parcel of Pressac’s crazy scenario? Or is it all from his brain?

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 2:17 pm

                • Wait, you would accept an eyewitness statement????????
                  Are you feeling OK?
                  Ok, Hermie. I’ll tell you what.
                  Tell me where the Jews went from the Operation Reinhard Camps if they didn’t die and tell me where the Hungarian Jews went if they didn’t die. Provide proof of transport, verifiable EYEWITNESS statements regarding this, names of the commanders in the Soviet Union or any of the above and I’ll start taking this whole denier thing seriously.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 12, 2016 @ 2:30 pm

                • I wrote about Treblinka on these blog posts: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/operation-reinhard-camps/
                  After seeing the site of the Treblinka camp in 1998, when I was the only person there besides my private tour guide, I am convinced that Treblinka was a transit camp.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 12, 2016 @ 2:47 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “Wait, you would accept an eyewitness statement???????? Are you feeling OK? ”

                  I just wanted to know how much of himself Pressac had put in this extravagant scenario. A lot, I suspect. Don’t tell me you were not a bit embarrassed when you posted Pressac’s farfetched refutation attempt.

                  Jeff wrote: “Ok, Hermie. I’ll tell you what. Tell me where the Jews went from the Operation Reinhard Camps if they didn’t die and tell me where the Hungarian Jews went if they didn’t die. Provide proof of transport, verifiable EYEWITNESS statements regarding this, names of the commanders in the Soviet Union or any of the above and I’ll start taking this whole denier thing seriously.”

                  Wow. I feel I have upset you on this one.

                  Who cares about what you take seriously and what you don’t take seriously?

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 3:24 pm

                • “Wow. I feel I have upset you on this one.”

                  Nope.
                  I’m still looking over the ventilation stuff because it peaked my curiosity. However, as you and every denier out there can’t come up with any explanation on where the Jews went if they didn’t die history still holds.

                  What, you don’t want me to take deniers seriously????? Shocking!!!! Am I not the target audience?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 12, 2016 @ 3:29 pm

                • “I just wanted to know how much of himself Pressac had put in this extravagant scenario.”

                  Well, you did complain recently that I didn’t post something about concentration camps. I thought I’d let you see what he wrote.

                  ” A lot, I suspect. Don’t tell me you were not a bit embarrassed when you posted Pressac’s farfetched refutation attempt.”

                  Not even in the slightest. I realize that Pressac embarrasses the denier community as a someone who started as a denier. Then he actually looked at the documentation and realized what the SS did at Aischwitz….unlike Leuchter, who couldn’t be bothered. I imagine it pissed Faurrison off to no end when his errand boy went rogue.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 12, 2016 @ 3:34 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “However, as you and every denier out there can’t come up with any explanation on where the Jews went if they didn’t die history still holds.”

                  History? What history? The victors’ vilifying fables about their defeated foes? What was found by the mock trials exempted from having to prove their so-called ‘facts of common knowledge’? You can’t be serious…

                  Just your Reverse Burden of Proof Syndrome once again, I’m afraid.

                  In the perspective of a normal burden of proof, where are the delivery notes for the wood supposedly used to conceal the alleged crime itself? Still missing? Perhaps there were no wood supplies and no bodies to make disappear from the face of the earth after all?😉

                  Comment by hermie — April 12, 2016 @ 9:07 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “However, as you and every denier out there can’t come up with any explanation on where the Jews went if they didn’t die history still holds.”

                  “History? What history? The victors’ vilifying fables about their defeated foes? What was found by the mock trials exempted from having to prove their so-called ‘facts of common knowledge’? You can’t be serious…”

                  You know, it LOOKS like you say a lot there but I’m going to translate all of that into a lot of quacking.

                  “Just your Reverse Burden of Proof Syndrome once again, I’m afraid.”

                  I don’t think it’s too much to ask for. Deniers claim that the Germans shipped the Jews East into the Soviet Union. Fine. Where is the proof of this?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 13, 2016 @ 8:28 am

                • “In the perspective of a normal burden of proof, where are the delivery notes for the wood supposedly used to conceal the alleged crime itself? Still missing? Perhaps there were no wood supplies and no bodies to make disappear from the face of the earth after all?😉”

                  Good news, Hermie! I tracked down what happened to 1,000 Jews!!! They were transferred to the Soviet Union!!! Now, this doesn’t tell us where the other 1,273,000 Jews went but it is a start, right? Maybe I’ll take the train to denierville after all!!

                  Here you go:
                  “a transport of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw has arrived for the local Luftwaffe Command.”

                  That sounds promising, right? They probably got a shower and a hot meal. Anyway, let me bring up the full paragraph on what was said.

                  “I should therefore be grateful if the Reichskommissar could see his way to stopping further deportations of Jews to Minsk at least until the danger from the partisans has been finally overcome.”

                  Whoa, wait a minute. That sounds less promising. Doesn’t sound like the Jews are welcome after all.

                  “I need 100 percent of the SD manpower against the Partisans and the Polish Resistance Movement, which together occupy the entire strength of the not overwhelmingly strong SD units. After completion of the Aktion against the Jews in Minsk, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Strauch reported to me this night, with justified indignation, that suddenly, without instructions from the Reichsfuehrer, and without notification to the Generalkommissar, a transport of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw has arrived for the local Luftwaffe Command.”

                  Hhhhmmmm. Ok. Really not promising. Well, maybe I just lack context, right? Let me add the full message:

                  “Re: Combating Partisans and Aktion against Jews in the Generalbezirk of Belorussia
                  In all the clashes with the partisans in Belorussia it has proved that Jewry, both in the formerly Polish, as well as in the formerly Soviet parts of the District General, is the main bearer of the partisan movement, together with the Polish resistance movement in the East and the Red Army from Moscow. In consequence, the treatment of Jewry in Belorussia is a matter of political importance owing to the danger to the entire economy”

                  Wow, somehow I get the feeling these guys don’t like Jews too much. Well, let’s continue and see what else they have to say.

                  ” It must therefore be solved in accordance with political considerations and not merely economic needs. Following exhaustive discussions with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner and the exceedingly capable Leader of the SD, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we have liquidated about 55,000 Jews in Belorussia”

                  Holy crap, these guys really don’t like Jews.

                  “in the past 10 weeks. In the area of Minsk county Jewry has been completely eliminated without any danger to the manpower requirements. In the predominantly Polish area of Lida, 16,000 Jews were liquidated, in Slonim, 8,000, etc.
                  Owing to encroachment by the Army Rear Zone (Command), which has already been reported, there was interference with the preparations we had made for the liquidation of the Jews in Glebokie. Without contacting me, the Army Rear Zone Command liquidated 10,000 Jews, whose systematic elimination had in any case been planned by us. In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest, Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin. The District of Sluzk has also been relieved of several thousand Jews. The same applies to Nowogrodek and Wilejka. Radical measures are planned for Baranowitschi and Hanzewitschi. In Baranowitschi there are still another 10,000 Jews in the city itself, of whom 9,000 will be liquidated next month.”

                  Wow, women and children. That’s kinda gruesome.
                  So, instead of parking Jews somewhere they are killing them. Well, anyway, let’s continue. I’m sure there’s a ray of light somewhere.

                  “In the city of Minsk about 2,600 Jews from Germany have remained. In addition all of the 6,000 Russian Jews and Jewesses remained alive who were employed during the Aktion by various units [of the Wehrmacht]. In future, too, Minsk will remain the largest Jewish element owing to the concentration of armament industries in the area and as the requirements of the railroad make this necessary for the time being. In all other areas the number of Jews used for work will be reduced by the SD and myself to a maximum of 800, and, if possible, 500, so that when the remaining planned Aktionen have been completed there will be 8,600 in Minsk and about 7,000 Jews in the 10 other districts, including the Jew-free Minsk District. There will then be no further danger that the partisans can still rely to any real extent on Jewry. Naturally I and the SD would like it best if Jewry in the Generalbezirk of Belorussia was finally eliminated after their labor is no longer required by the Wehrmacht.”

                  Huh. Sounds like they want to eliminate the Jews, even the productive ones. No ray of light there.

                  For the time being the essential requirements of the Wehrmacht, the main employer of Jewry, are being taken into consideration.
                  In addition to this unambiguous attitude towards Jewry, the SD in Belorussia also has the onerous task of continually transferring new transports of Jews from the Reich to their destination. This causes excessive strain on the physical and spiritual capacities of the personnel of the SD, and withdraws them from duties within the area of Belorussia itself.
                  I should therefore be grateful if the Reichskommissar could see his way to stopping further deportations of Jews to Minsk at least until the danger from the partisans has been finally overcome. I need 100 percent of the SD manpower against the Partisans and the Polish Resistance Movement, which together occupy the entire strength of the not overwhelmingly strong SD units. After completion of the Aktion against the Jews in Minsk, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Strauch reported to me this night, with justified indignation, that suddenly, without instructions from the Reichsfuehrer, and without notification to the Generalkommissar, a transport of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw has arrived for the local Luftwaffe Command.”

                  Oh. I gave it the wrong context. Silly me.

                  “I beg the Reichskommissar (already warned by telegram) to prevent the dispatch of such transports, in his capacity as supreme authority in Ostland. The Polish Jew, exactly like the Russian Jew, is an enemy of the German nation. He represents a politically dangerous element, a danger which far exceeds his value as a skilled worker. Under no circumstances should the army or the Luftwaffe import Jews into an area under civil administration, either from the Generalgouvernement or from elsewhere, without the approval of the Reichskommissar, as this endangers the entire political task here and the security of the Generalbezirk. I am in full agreement with the Commander of the SD in Belorussia that we should liquidate every transport of Jews not arranged, or announced to us, by our superior officers, to prevent further disturbances in Belorussia.”

                  Whoa. Sounds like instead of wanting the Jews sent to the East Kube wants to stop any further transports. Hhhhhmmmm. That’s a bit of a pickle for team denier.

                  So, where did I get this from?

                  Why, David Cole.

                  http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5335

                  Mattagono and Graf also quote the “1,000” which means they believe the telegram from Kube authentic. After all, you are not going to quote from something you believe is a forgery, right? Especially to make a point that the Germans transported the Jews East. Unfortunately they just didn’t use the full document….because the document itself shows that Kube didn’t want any more Jews shipped East….other than the few already there.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 13, 2016 @ 11:55 am

                • I don’t know the reason of Graf and Mattogno to deal with this document as a reliable source (probably their eagerness to prove their case about Treblinka), but the Kube letter, aka PS-3428, is just another one of the dubious ‘certified true copies’ used at Nuremberg.

                  Carlos Whitlock Porter:

                  “The standard version of events is that the Allies examined 100,000 documents and chose 1,000 which were introduced into evidence, and that the original documents were then deposited in the Peace Palace at The Hague. This is rather inexact. The documents used in evidence at Nuremberg consisted largely of “photocopies” of “copies”. Many of these original documents were written entirely on plain paper without handwritten markings of any kind, by unknown persons. Occasionally, there is an illegible initial or signature of a more or less unknown person certifying the document as a ‘true copy’.

                  […]

                  The National Archives in Washington (see Telford Taylor’s Use of Captured German and Related Documents, A National Archive Conference) claim that the original documents are in The Hague. The Hague claims the original documents are in the National Archives. The Stadtarchiv Nürnberg and the Bundesarchiv Koblenz also have no original documents, and both say the original documents are in Washington. Since the originals are, in most cases, ‘copies’, there is often no proof that the documents in question ever existed.”

                  “To me, engaging in complicated arguments about the “content” of apocryphal documents is putting the cart before the horse. To me, the first question is, is it an original? What kind of document is it? Where did the copy come from? What kind of copy is it? And so on. Then we’ll argue about what they say. There are no originals, as a rule, especially, no Nuremberg Trial originals, or very few. And no rules of evidence, no chain of evidence. No requirement that original documents be presented.”

                  “There are no originals of any Nuremberg trial documents, except for a few, more or less insignificant documents. Even the “file copies” are photocopies. Many people have remarked that nobody knows where these documents are. […] There appear to be many original archive documents (hundreds of thousands of them), but they were not introduced into evidence at the trials. In other words, the rule seems to be: if it is an original, it is not incriminating. […] I suspect that the original Nuremberg Trial documents have vanished because the documents were mostly forgeries to start with, but they may have vanished for some other reason.”

                  Comment by hermie — April 14, 2016 @ 8:22 pm

                • I really need to find a duck emoji for you.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 8:46 pm

                • 🐥
                  Sorry, best I can do. Apparently I can’t really access via my phone, all it does is give me a link.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 14, 2016 @ 9:05 pm

                • You need a JPG file if you want your pic to be visible on this blog.

                  Comment by hermie — April 15, 2016 @ 7:29 am

  6. “Sobibor was strictly an extermination camp, the purpose of which was to kill every Jew that entered the camp. Why did those stupid Nazis save this one prisoner? Did they deliberately save one prisoner so that he could live to the age of 95 and testify many years later at the trials of aged men like John Demnanjuk?”

    Well, the Jews revolted, this saved their lives. The same thing happened at Treblinka. Did you forget this?
    Where revolts did not happen, Belzec and Chelmno, the only survivors were those who escaped.

    https://www.ushmm.org/research/the-center-for-advanced-holocaust-studies/miles-lerman-center-for-the-study-of-jewish-resistance/medals-of-resistance-award/sobibor-uprising

    “Could it be that Sobibor was a transit camp…?

    That of course begs the question of where the Jews were sent. No denier has an answer for that.

    It also begs the question of why the Jews would revolt. If this was just a transit camp, wouldn’t the expectation be that they would join their loved ones after the camp closed? In a sense, they would be workers, not prisoners or slaves.

    Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 9:22 am

    • You wrote: “Where revolts did not happen, Belzec and Chelmno, the only survivors were those who escaped.”

      I wrote about Chelmno at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/chelmno-the-little-known-death-camp/

      This quote is from the blog post cited above:
      Begin quote
      On the night of January 17 and 18, 1945, the SS men began taking the 47 Jewish workers out of the granary building and shooting them in groups of five, according to the two survivors, Shimon Srebnik and Mordechai Zurawski. The Jews defended themselves and two of the SS men were killed. According to the survivors, the SS men then set fire to the granary.
      End quote

      This was a minor revolt, but it WAS a revolt.

      Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 9:40 am

      • Sorry, qualification.

        Successful revolts, where some of the Jews managed to get away.

        The Jews at Chelmno did not escape.

        Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 9:43 am

        • Sobibor is about as big as 2 football fields, one end bordering the road and rail line pictured above, and woods on 3 sides.
          Funny none of the revolt “survivahs” can remember where exactly the gas chambers were located.

          Comment by Schlageter — April 5, 2016 @ 10:48 am

          • “Sobibor is about as big as 2 football fields, one end bordering the road and rail line pictured above, and woods on 3 sides.
            Funny none of the revolt “survivahs” can remember where exactly the gas chambers were located.”

            sobibor death camp layout

            The gas chambers were separated from the living quarters. I guess you think that the SS gave the inmates guided tours?
            You seem to have trouble spelling “survivors.”

            Let me help:
            S U R V I V O R S

            Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 11:02 am

            • Fuck off, troll. I’ve been there, have you?
              They’d be close enough to see naked eye from the barracks or the rail head. A tiny area, yet no one could remember where all their friends disappeared to?

              Comment by Schlageter — April 5, 2016 @ 11:21 am

              • “Fuck off, troll. I’ve been there, have you?”

                Tsk, tsk, temper, temper.
                Hey, next time you see David Irving, ask him for me if Sobibor was a transit camp, where were the Jews shipped?

                “They’d be close enough to see naked eye from the barracks or the rail head. A tiny area, yet no one could remember where all their friends disappeared to?”

                The camp areas were shielded from one another, dumbass. That’s why the Jews from one area could not see Jews in another area. The Jews fated to die were forced through the “Tube” into “Camp III.”

                You may have been there but at least I can figure out what the layout says.
                Fucktard.
                Have a nice day, dipshit. Figure out how to spell “survivor” yet?

                Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 11:30 am

                • The camps were shielded…by what, troll? Big giant walls a mile high? How did they know their fellow untermenschen were gassed then if they couldn’t see anything?
                  And your maps have no scales. Maybe your relatives couldn’t see with their hook noses in the way? They were all out in force excavating everywhere but couldn’t find anything.

                  You and your assholic specious arguments…

                  Comment by Schlageter — April 5, 2016 @ 11:42 am

                • “The camps were shielded…by what, troll? Big giant walls a mile high?”

                  No, you Nazi ass-wipe. The site was separated into three sections, each surrounded by barbed wire and camouflaged. Camp III was separated from the rest of the camp by the “tube,” a passageway surrounded by barbed wire. The only two entrances into this section was the “tube” and a separate entrance for the SS and Ukrainian guards.

                  “How did they know their fellow untermenschen were gassed then if they couldn’t see anything?”

                  There was some limited exchange from the delivery of food and smuggled messages, Goebbels-gobbler. Naturally because you are a Nazi ass-wipe you snuck in some racist bullshit because you can’t help being a dick.

                  “And your maps have no scales. Maybe your relatives couldn’t see with their hook noses in the way?”

                  I’m not Jewish, you National Socialist shitbag.

                  “They were all out in force excavating everywhere but couldn’t find anything.”

                  Apparently because you were daydreaming about cuddle time with Hitler you missed where they found gas chambers, an escape tunnel, the remains of the tube, the remains of mass graves, actual bodies, camp detritus, etc., etc. I realize that might be awkward for you so you simply continue to live in fantasy land.

                  “You and your assholic specious arguments…”

                  Go back to dreaming about tickling Hitler’s nuts. You might want to imagine a gas mask, I understand he was prone to farting.

                  Have a nice day.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 3:16 pm

                • “The camps were shielded…by what, troll? Big giant walls a mile high? How did they know their fellow untermenschen were gassed then if they couldn’t see anything?”

                  They couldn’t see because each section was surrounded by barbed wire and then camouflaged, you Nazi ass-wipe. BTW, I like how you made sure to add the racist bullshit because you are, after all, a dick.

                  “And your maps have no scales. Maybe your relatives couldn’t see with their hook noses in the way?”

                  I’m not Jewish, Goebbels-gobbler.

                  “They were all out in force excavating everywhere but couldn’t find anything.”

                  I realize you were daydreaming about fondling Hitler’s nuts so you missed the part where they found the foundations of the gas chambers, the remnants of the “tube,” mass graves of ash, actual bodies, etc.

                  “You and your assholic specious arguments…”

                  Hey, don’t forget to ask David Irving about where the Jews were transited. I thought your story about the grumpy old fart yelling at the archeologists hysterical.

                  Piss off, you National Socialist shitbag.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 3:26 pm

                • “The camps were shielded…by what, troll? Big giant walls a mile high?”

                  Each camp was separated by a barbed wire barrier covered in camouflage. The “tube” itself was also a barbed wire barrier that was camouflaged and was only one of two entrances into Camp III.

                  “How did they know their fellow untermenschen were gassed then if they couldn’t see anything?”

                  The SS limited contact between the other parts of the camp and Camp III. The only contact was the exchange of food that facilitated the passing of smuggled messages.

                  “And your maps have no scales.Maybe your relatives couldn’t see with their hook noses in the way?”

                  I’m not Jewish.

                  “They were all out in force excavating everywhere but couldn’t find anything.”

                  Apparently you missed the part where the archeologists found the foundations for the gas chambers, outlined the ash pit graves, found bodies, etc.

                  “You and your assholic specious arguments…”

                  Schlageter, you are an honest to God, walking, talking stereotype of a Neo-Nazi dickhead who fantasizes about tickling Hitler’s balls.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — April 6, 2016 @ 5:16 am

              • Schlageter
                If you have been there, I wonder if you saw In camp III there stood the stone building with the gas chambers. These contained three large chambers, each measuring about four by four meters square.and could hold up to 200 people when driven into them. Beside it was a wooden shed in which a 200-hp diesel engine was installed, the exhaust gases went through pipes into the hermetically sealed chambers. In addition, there was a kitchen and bunkhouse for the Jewish prisoners who worked there, a log cabin for the SS, a guard tower and a 60 meter, by 20 meters wide and six to nine meters deep pit(Grube) where the the victims were buried. In June 1943 the entire area was mined in a 15 meters distance from the outer fence.
                Also in the early summer of 1943 they started with the establishment of a fourth camp in which a large ammunition depot and captured weapons where meant to be held. This part of the camp was never completed.
                As a side issue, are you aware that a namesake of yours Albert, Leo Schlageter was a German saboteur in the French occupied Ruhr who was eventually betrayed and executed?

                Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 5, 2016 @ 8:47 pm

                • my point was…none of these structures survived. the camp area is relatively small. when I was there, there was a joint Israeli-Polish team digging and digging and digging, all filmed by a jewish documentary filmmaker from the US. One would think, given the crystal clear memories of the alleged survivors in all these places, one would remember through dead reckoning exactly where the locations allegedly were. Moreover, there still isn’t consensus on exactly what method the Germans used to gas the inmates. Yet, months later, the first moment the remains of a structure is unearthed, the news instantly proclaims “gas chambers found! gas chambers found!” ridiculous.

                  And, to your aside, of course I’m aware of A.L.S. the moniker is not accidental.

                  Finally, Herr Stolpmann, I’m not a “denier”, but I certainly am agnostic, and a revisionist. Having taken multiple trips to each and every “Aktion Reinhardt” camp, plus Auschwitz, (and Buchenwald, where my great uncle was murdered by the Soviets in 1950, and Sachsenhausen), my eyes certainly have been opened to the unbelievable fallacies of the “official story”, which I already was starting to doubt based upon multiple sources: my relationship with David Irving, the works of Peter Winter, Germar Rudolf, Fred Leuchter, Robert Faurisson, the Rizolis, and others, along with this blog.

                  All that, combined with the absolutely accurate and devasting scholarship of Kevin MacDonald and others who bravely ID the instrinsically Jewish traits of scamming, lying, and general abhorrant behavior throughout time helped me connect the dots.

                  Comment by Schlageter — April 6, 2016 @ 5:12 am

                • the stone building with the gas chambers

                  Herr Stolpmann, können Sie bitte erklären, wie ist bewiesen, das die wirklich Gaskammern gewesen sind?

                  Could you please relate the evidence that any building remnants that may have been discovered at Sobibor were actually formerly gas chambers?

                  Comment by eah — April 7, 2016 @ 3:15 am

                • You wrote: “Could you please relate the evidence that any building remnants that may have been discovered at Sobibor were actually formerly gas chambers?”

                  On my blog post, I put a photo of two monuments at the top. The large stone monument on the left is supposed to represent a stone building that had a gas chamber disguised as a SHOWER ROOM. The building was torn down long ago. AFAIK, there are no photos of the interior of the building. The alleged gas chamber at Dachau was also disguised as a shower room. However, that has changed now and visitors are now told that the Dachau shower room was actually a gas chamber.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 7, 2016 @ 6:42 am

                • eah
                  GAS CHAMBERS AT SOBIBOR
                  I have published under ‘Dachau KZ blogspot.com ‘Sobibor’ a translation from German which contains evidence of gas chambers. Although the expression ‘Ermordung’ instead of ‘Vergasung’, for effectiveness is is often used, coming from Jewish authors. Nevertheless the gassing began on either 16 or 18 of May 1942, and became then fully operational.
                  The killing was performed with carbon monoxide released from the exhaust pipes of a tank engine.[Read: Schelvis 2007, p. 100: Testimony of SS-Scharführer Erich Fuchs about his own installation of the (at least) 200 HP, V-shaped, 8 cylinder, water-cooled petrol engine at Sobibor.]
                  During his trial, SS-Oberscharführer Kurt Bolender described the killing operations as follows:
                  Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharführer Hermann Michel made a speech to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to give the impression he was a physician. Michel announced to the Jews that they would be sent to work. But before this they would have to take baths and undergo disinfection, so as to prevent the spread of diseases. After undressing, the Jews were taken through the “Tube”, by an SS man leading the way, with five or six Ukrainians at the back hastening the Jews along. After the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the doors. The motor was switched on by the former Soviet soldier Emil Kostenko and by the German driver Erich Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the doors were opened, and the corpses were removed by a group of Jewish workers.’ [Read:Arad 1987, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, p.76.]

                  SS-Scharführer Erich Fuchs, who spent time installing the killing apparatus at the three Reinhard death camps of Sobibór, Treblinka, and Bełżec, explained how the gassing of victims was developed as follows:
                  We put the engine on a concrete plinth and attached a pipe to the exhaust outlet. Then we tried out the engine. At first it did not work. I repaired the ignition and the valve and finally got the engine to start. The chemist whom I already knew from Bełżec went into the gas chamber with a measuring device in order to gauge the gas concentration. After that, a trial gassing was carried out. I seem to remember that thirty to forty women were gassed. The Jewesses had to undress in a clearing in the woods near the gas chamber. They were herded into the gas chamber by SS members and Ukrainian volunteers. Once the women were locked inside, I attended to the engine together with Bauer. At first the engine was in neutral. We both stood next to the engine and switched it up to “release exhaust to chamber” so that the gases were channelled into the chamber. On the instigation of the chemist I revved up the engine to high RPM making further accelerating unnecessary. After about ten minutes the thirty to forty women were dead. The chemist and the SS gave the signal to turn off the engine. I packed up my tools and saw the bodies being taken away. A small Lorenbahn wagon on rails was used leading to an area farther away to dump the bodies,’.

                  Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 8, 2016 @ 10:15 pm

                • Germany had the best engineers in the world. Why didn’t they build the best gas chambers in the world instead of using such primitive methods? Why didn’t Germany send an engineer to Jefferson City, Missouri to look at a real gas chamber? I was in elementary school when I first heard about the Nazis gassing the Jews. I assumed that they were being gassed in a gas chamber like the one that I had seen in Jefferson City on a trip taken by my 4th grade class.

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 9, 2016 @ 7:57 am

                • Your 4th grade class to a field trip to “the Pen”? Kids are gonna be plagued by nightmares . “Scared Straight;The Pre Puberty Years”. Start kids off early like that. Show them living proof of the old adage,”consequences of your actions”.

                  Comment by Tim — April 9, 2016 @ 9:29 am

                • PS:
                  GAS CHAMBERS AT SOBIBOR
                  Prior to the completion of his trial, Kurt Bolender committed suicide by hanging himself in his prison cell. In his suicide note, he insisted that he was innocent.
                  SS-Scharführer Erich Fuchs was found guilty of being an accessory to the mass murder of at least 79,000 Jews and sentenced to four years imprisonment. Fuchs was married for the sixth time during the trial. Fuchs died on July 25, 1980 at the age of 78.
                  Erich Bauer was on May 8, 1950 in court, Schwurgericht Berlin-Moabit, wich sentenced him to death for crimes against humanity. Since capital punishment had been abolished in West Germany, Bauer’s sentence was automatically commuted to life imprisonment. He served 21 years in Alt-Moabit Prison in Berlin before being transferred to Berlin Tegel prison. During his imprisonment, he admitted to his participation in mass murder at Sobibór and even occasionally testified against his former SS colleagues. Bauer died at Berlin Tegel prison on February 4, 1980.
                  Hermann Michel survived World War II and escaped to Egypt. Some sources[who?] suggest that Hermann Michel died on 8 August 1984, but it has never been conclusively proven.

                  Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 9, 2016 @ 5:24 am

                • Vielen Dank Herr Stolpmann — but when I asked about “evidence that any building remnants that may have been discovered at Sobibor were actually formerly gas chambers” I was thinking more about forensic evidence — your reply mentions eyewitness reports and/or post-war testimony/trials of Germans — re that, see the link I posted above: there are various versions of what happened at Sobibor, some of them ridiculous — also the testimony of Germans is badly tainted by the torture and abuse many of them suffered — so as I said, you must choose to believe that Sobibor was a “death camp” because there is simply no convincing forensic evidence that it was — finding building remnants and immediately saying they were gas chambers is like finding a tile with a Star of David on it at Treblinka and immediately saying it was part of a gas chamber — ie absurd.

                  Comment by eah — April 9, 2016 @ 11:35 am

                • You wrote: “you must choose to believe that Sobibor was a “death camp” because there is simply no convincing forensic evidence that it was”

                  There are also many things, besides evidence, that indicate that Sobibor was a transit camp. I have written several blog posts under the tag “Sobibor” https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/sobibor/

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 9, 2016 @ 3:03 pm

                • eah
                  NO TORTURE AT GERMAN TRIALS
                  The German court in Hagen initiated proceedings on 6 September 1965 against twelve former members of the Sobibor SS camp personnel (about a quarter of the SS men employed at at the camp ), accusing them of crimes against humanity. The verdicts were pronounced on 20 December 1966, based on evidence provided by German historian, Professor Wolfgang Scheffler as well as Dutch historian and Holocaust survivor Jules Schelvis among others.
                  German courts did not use TOTURE, this was done only during war crimes proceedings by Americans, In most cases based on false statements, they just loved their hanging’s at Landsberg prison about 145.
                  In the 1965–66 trial, the defendants claimed that once assigned to serve at a death camp, they saw no possibility to refuse their orders, citing the statement made by Christian Wirth to the personnel at Sobibór (quote): “If you do not like it here, you can leave, but under the earth, not over it.” However, SS-Untersturmführer Johann Klier, who asked to be transferred from Sobibór on moral grounds was not punished but allowed to leave, which proved that the contrary was true.

                  Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 10, 2016 @ 6:50 pm

                • Torture was done by Americans? Then a person has to wonder just how accurate the verdicts were that were handed down in those trials. I always hear people say those trials went by the letter. No funny business going on there.

                  Comment by Tim — April 10, 2016 @ 9:44 pm

                • I wrote about the trial of the SS men at Dachau on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/Introduction.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — April 11, 2016 @ 6:47 am

                • Tim
                  Let me assure you that during the Dachau War Crimes Tribunal almost without exception the accused had been beaten to obtain to some extent false statements, for the sole purpose to obtain a guilty verdict.
                  I lived in Camp Dachau for 10 years and have spoken of a number of SS-men that had been released.
                  The most notorious example is the capture of the Commandant of Auschwitz Rudolf Höss:
                  British soldiers that captured Höss were led by Hanns Alexander, a young Jewish man from Berlin who was forced to flee to England with his entire family during the rise of Nazi Germany. Höss initially denied who he was, until Alexander noticed his wedding ring and demanded to see it. Höss refused to remove it, saying it was stuck on his finger. But when Alexander threatened to cut his finger off, Höss removed the ring. It had the names “Rudolf” and “Hedwig” engraved inside. After being questioned and beaten with axe handles by the British soldiers, Höss admitted who he really was.
                  He stated later:
                  “Certainly, I signed that I have killed 2 1/2 million Jews. But I might as well sign that there have been 5 million Jews. There are just ways that you can reach any admission – whether it’s true or not”.
                  On 15 March 1946 Rudolf Höss signed at two thirty in the morning an eight-sided typed “document” in German ( NO-1210 ) which contains numerous spelling and grammatical errors as well as deleted sentences and apparently is a derivative of a “translation” marked as the English text.
                  The British torturers of Rudolf Höss had no reason to exercise any restraint. After making him sign document NO-1210 at 2:30 in the morning of the l4th or l5th of March 1946, they obtained a new signature from him on March 16, this time at the bottom of a text in English, written in an English handwriting style, with a blank in the space where the name of the place ought to have been given. His guards made him sign a simple note written in English.
                  That same team took the former Gauleiter of Luxenburg, Gustav Simon, from Paderborn towards France, beat him to death, tied him to the spare wheel of their Jeep and handed him over to the French.
                  LONG LIVE AMERICAN JUSTICE!

                  Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 11, 2016 @ 3:10 am

                • Hallo Herr Stolpmann — und nochmals vielen Dank — at this point I will assume, per the link I posted above, that there is no forensic evidence that shows convincingly that Sobibor was a “death camp” — although considering how many people were allegedly killed there, a thorough forensic study (perhaps ground penetrating radar to look for the former mass graves?) is surely overdue, and would surely find something — re the trials, I guess I would have to review the record to see what evidence, eg documentary evidence (again, I assume no forensic evidence), was presented — I understand there were statements by not only inmates but also alleged perpetrators — but re this kind of testimony, see also the link above: there have been so many stories told about Sobibor, given the lack of forensic evidence, to believe it was a “death camp” you must choose to believe that, and once you have decided to believe that, you have to decide which version of what happened there you believe — eg which method (or perhaps methods) were used to murder people there.

                  I’m afraid I am not that credulous.

                  Comment by eah — April 11, 2016 @ 6:10 am

    • It’s interesting that you think ‘deniers’ or as i call us, ‘revisionists’ should prove that all these people were sent to the east but you don’t feel inclined to prove your claims that they were murdered in clearly located sites but which contain no mass graves or means to have killed them. The Caroline Sturdy-Colls debacle did it all really. Pulling a floor tile from the earth and claiming it proved the existence and location of the gas chambers. Nonsense! This about Sobibor from Wikipedia ‘In September 2014, a team of archaeologists unearthed remains of the gas chambers under the asphalt road. Also discovered in 2014 were a pendant inscribed with the word “Palestine”, in Hebrew, English, and Arabic, dating from 1927; earrings; a wedding band bearing a Hebrew inscription; and perfume bottles that belonged to Jewish victims.’ Read this very carefully and start asking questions. A few trinkets found in a known transit area proves not one jot of the holocaust and they so called gas chambers were just a few lines of bricks, nothing more and nothing less. Certainly no proof of gas chambers.

      As for the claimed ‘revolts’ I have my doubts about these heroic acts too. After all these tales of magnificent breakouts are brought to you by the same liars who have claimed the six million, electric chambers, steam chambers, head bashing machines and of course gas chambers. None of which have been proven so why should we believe the claims of mass revolts etc?

      The jews went east and were then stranded in Russia after the end of the war and the cold war started. That few came back to the west is not to be questioned. It’s about time the jews stopped the convenient ‘you can’t dig there’ routine and started delivering proof of claims that as many as 11m people were systematically murdered but zero proof is given.

      Comment by Mr B — April 5, 2016 @ 9:52 am

      • I wrote several blog posts about “The Caroline Sturdy-Colls debacle” at
        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/dr-caroline-sturdy-colls/

        Comment by furtherglory — April 5, 2016 @ 10:12 am

      • “It’s interesting that you think ‘deniers’ or as i call us, ‘revisionists’ should prove that all these people were sent to the east but you don’t feel inclined to prove your claims that they were murdered in clearly located sites but which contain no mass graves or means to have killed them”

        What proof would you accept?
        Archeological digs at Belzec located mass graves. The point of doing archeological research at these sites is to determine where the graves are, where the buildings were, etc.

        “As for the claimed ‘revolts’ I have my doubts about these heroic acts too. After all these tales of magnificent breakouts are brought to you by the same liars who have claimed the six million, electric chambers, steam chambers, head bashing machines and of course gas chambers. None of which have been proven so why should we believe the claims of mass revolts etc?”

        More denier blah blah.

        “The jews went east and were then stranded in Russia after the end of the war and the cold war started. That few came back to the west is not to be questioned. It’s about time the jews stopped the convenient ‘you can’t dig there’ routine and started delivering proof of claims that as many as 11m people were systematically murdered but zero proof is given.”

        I actually agree that the sites need to be fully excavated, Jewish burial rituals or taboos be damned. The area is one massive crime scene.
        However, that is not my decision to make and those that are excavating the sites are restricted from unearthing any bodies that remain, as well as the ash pits.

        But, deniers can end all of this. Prove where the Jews went, not vague conjectures or “we don’t have to prove it.” I believe history, not evasion.

        Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 10:53 am

        • The Holocaust been bery, bery good to Jules Schelvis – for a LONG TIME!

          Comment by Jett Rucker — April 5, 2016 @ 11:06 am

      • “It’s interesting that you think ‘deniers’ or as i call us, ‘revisionists’”

        I prefer to call you deniers. What you spout is denial, not honest revisionism.

        Comment by Jeff K. — April 5, 2016 @ 11:22 am

      • Mr B
        […]from the various traditional writings about the revolt of October 14, 1943, with only slight variations, the uprising can be reconstructed: On this morning, each of the present SS men was asked in the course of the afternoon at a specified time to come into a workshop a warehouse or an office. They may want a new suit or a leather coat or to try on a jacket or a pair of shoes that belonged to a murdered inmate, come and take a closer look and examine the newly-built shelves. At first everything went according to plan. Leon Feldhendler supervised Camp II, Alexander Petcherchersky watching over Camp I. The exchange of information between the two concerned was done by young boys called “Putzer”, which were able to move as servants of the SS within the camps quite freely. Stanislaw Szmajzner pretended to have to repair something on the roof of the armoury. From there he could get inside, and take three rifles and ammunition and have them smuggled out. A Czech electrician cut off all connections to the outside. Hidden money and valuables which should help them move forward after a successful escape were distributed to the insurgents.
        The killing of the SS men initially worked quickly and smoothly as planned. Greed and punctuality were found to be a reliable constant of the plan. After SS Sergeant Josef Wolf was killed first in a warehouse building of Camp II while trying on a leather jacket with a blow with an axe, there was no turning back. The rebellion had begun. In Camp I the 16-year old Yehuda Lerner struck SS Sergeant Siegfried Graetschuss down with a hatchet, who was commander of the Ukrainian guards. Lerner had, after his parents were deported from the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka, previously fled from eight camps before, he was brought together with Russian prisoners of war from Minsk to Sobibor. Also Untersturmführer Niemann deputy to commander of the day, met on his horse one time in front of the assembly hall (Lagerhalle), where he was liquidated. At 16.45 o’clock in Camp II four SS-men had been killed. But SS Sergeant Karl Frenzel did not come as planned into the carpentry and Walter Ryba arrived unexpectedly in the garage and surprised one of the rebels who stabbed him to death[…].

        Comment by Herbert Stolpmann von Waldeck — April 6, 2016 @ 1:41 am


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