Scrapbookpages Blog

June 19, 2016

the expression “Banality of Evil” is alive and well, still being used

Filed under: Germany, Holocaust — furtherglory @ 11:00 am

The expression “banality of evil” was used in a recent news article.

The following quote is from the news article:

Begin quote

The banality of evil has a new face. The West is so far advanced down the path of cultural relativism that its political leaders do not respond when Islamic leaders suggest killing homosexual people is acceptable if decreed by a committee. We have seen this all before. It was called Nazism.

The banality of evil was a phrase coined by political theorist Hannah Arendt to describe the methodical, bureaucratic nature of the Nazi killing machine.

End quote

This quote is also from the news article:

Begin quote

The Nazi genocide began, as do all genocidal wars, with the deliberate manipulation of language.

The first gas chambers were built in 1939 and grew out of Hitler’s euthanasia program that targeted the mentally ill deemed undesirable by the regime. Arendt records that between 1939 and 1941, about 50,000 Germans were gassed in what Nazis described as a humane program of “granting people a mercy death”. Hitler ­replaced the word “murder” with “mercy”, thereby expurgating guilt in advance and perverting the meaning of virtue so that the killing of citizens deemed undesirable by the regime was transformed into an act of compassion.

End quote

There used to be a website which showed photos of the deformed children who were put to death at Hartheim. Those photos are long gone. They were removed so that people could be led to believe that the children who were killed at Hartheim were perfectly normal, and capable of living at home like normal children.

I have a whole section about Hartheim Castle on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Hartheim/index.html

This page on my website is about the gas chamber at Hartheim: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Hartheim/gaschamber01a.html

The gas chamber at Hartheim Castle

The gas chamber at Hartheim Castle

Hartheim Castle is now a memorial site which teaches young students that the children, who were gassed there, were perfectly normal, although slightly retarded. This is not true; the children who were gassed at Hartheim, were seriously deformed and incapable of normal thought and behavior. They did not walk into the gas chamber; they were carried in because they were so deformed that they could not walk.

Close-up of the pipe that put gas into the chamber at Hartheim

Close-up of the pipe that put gas into the chamber at Hartheim

The following quote is from the news article:

Begin quote:

There is the banality of evil.

As a child, I had an unusual preoccupation with trying to ­decipher the animus of the Holocaust. I pored through books to uncover a single trigger, to capture a solitary truth ­— a concrete precedent to wield like a weapon against the darkness should it ever return. But I didn’t believe it would in our lifetime.

The banality of evil is a creeping nightmare; the gradual ­dilation of totalitarian thought in high places; the supersession of moral virtue by the orderly ­administration of misanthropy. It is Jews marched onto trains destined for camps where they will be forced to dig each other’s graves. It is the tiny body of a Christian toddler held aloft by her wailing ­father after being ­decapitated by Islamic State. It is the pink triangle sewn stitch-by-stitch onto the shirt of a man who is marked for murder simply ­because he loved ­— and was loved in return.

There was no single cause of the Holocaust, no pivotal ­moment in which the fate of millions was surrendered to the darkest forces of humanity. The truth is much worse. There were years of political deals between governments, scores of ominous warnings and innumerable propa­ganda methods designed by the Nazi regime to stir the hatred of the masses and solicit their acquiescence to the murder of fellow citizens the regime deemed undesirable. There is no final solution to the Final Solution.

End quote

 

 

 

518 Comments »

  1. “Anyone who claims the “Uhr” column refers to cremation times of the corpses in other column is wrong, yes. Closed case for me for years and is a bit absurd to see somebody still claiming that in 2016, but when I look at other stuff that “Click” is posting, then I do not wonder.”

    Umm… You do understand the time slip it counting the daily cremation correct? These are not times which account for a short period of time. It’s a simple idea, in the page anon links makes this quite clear… Why exactly this time sheet is new to you, I have no idea.

    As well the cremation time hasn’t exactly changed, as well according to Hdot.org the time the corpses were inside the ash collector was 5 minutes, no an extra twenty. McVay though does claim the total time in the ash collector to be 20 min. The point behind the use of the Gusen time sheet was that it shows quite clearly that the number of bodies which could be cremated in a day was higher then the 48 bodies which Jim wishes to be accurate.

    Zimmerman has quite well addressed the issue that Mattogno tries to push.

    “Mattogno has tried to discredit the idea that the Gusen timesheet supports the idea of a 25 minute cremation by arguing that the numbers on the sheet which represent the times of cremation do not really mean the hours that the cremation was taking place. He writes that because of my

    “utter ignorance of camp thermotechnology, it is not surprising that he [Zimmerman] has not understood anything: First of all, the first column of the document bears the inscription ‘Uhr’ “hour”, but nowhere is it specified to what this “Uhr” corresponds. However, Professor Zimmerman decides to authorize it to refer to the time of cremation, but this is not merely an unauthorized interpretation, it is also technically absurd, because if that were the case the oven would have been able to cremate one cadaver in 8 minutes with grill speed. (Reply, 10, italics added)”

    In fact, the timesheet in question specifies the time that the oven was operating on each day. It does this by clearly showing at what time of day various loads of coke were added. It then gives the total number of prisoners cremated on each day. The timesheet unambiguously shows this information. However, the time sheet does not show how long the last operation of each day took. It only shows the time of the day when coke was added. The exception is the November 7, 1941 operation when 94 bodies were burned in 19 hours and 45 minutes in two ovens. We know the time because the operation started at 11:15 A.M. The last load of coke was added at 5 A.M on November 8. We know that this last burning only lasted two hours because the time sheet for November 8 starts at 7 A.M.”

    According to the time sheet it operated for the time that I have provided and Danny has explained it quite well.

    “Summary: In Gusen camp, which was a sub-camp of the Mauthausen concentration camp, 2 Topf cremation muffles sufficed to cremate 94 corpses in 20 working hours. Contrast this with claims by “Holocaust revisionists”, who allege that it would take two, or three, or four hours, to cremate one corpse.”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20040617222842/http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/

    It doesn’t take very much thought to understand that I have it correct. Perhaps this is why you didn’t reply this directly to me, for a response. The cremation rate doesn’t exactly prove much, not as much as DK wants it to, but it’s still a point.

    As well the issue is beside the point Blake. It’s quite a show though that you were willing to take the time to do that math, I’m not sure. It seems quite pointless, and how your calculations make my point impossible, I’m not sure. Here is my recommendation… Put away the pocket calculator.

    Your effort doesn’t disprove the time sheet, and it’s not much of an outlier. As you would like to claim, the times which they decide to cremate bodies may be different. Depends on how large the pile would be and at what times the people had died. When exactly there was a build up, I’m not aware of a time sheet that records when people died at Gusen, but I’m sure if one exist it would show quite clearly why the numbers were the way they came out. Going off from the estimates of 4 bodies an hour per muffle I can see if we can burn 42 bodies in 7 hours.

    The math is quite simple.

    # hours • Cremation rate per hour • # of muffles.

    7•4•2 = 56 corpses

    Making the number 42 corpses a non issue.

    Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 1:10 pm

    • Click, your starting to fall into my category of typing…

      *It doesn’t take very much thought to understand that I have it correct. Perhaps this is why you didn’t reply this directly to me, for a response. The [number of cremated bodies] doesn’t exactly prove much, not as much as DK wants it to, but it’s still a point.

      Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 1:22 pm

      • The number given was the number cremated on that date, an idea presented by Blake is that the amount of coke couldn’t meet the demand. I put cremation rate, but that was mostly with intent. The rate of cremation which is given off Topfs estimates would quite easily meet the demand.

        “Look at the dates 11/1/41 and 11/2/41. 11/1/41 looks to have coke tallies starting at 10:15 and ending at 19:00. BUT 11/2/41 starts at about 13:00 and ends at, say, 6:45 (?) – the next day. What happened between (11/1/41 – 19:00) and (11/2/41 – 13:00) of the next day? That’s an 18 hour gap. The time period of moving coke on 11/1/41 is about 8.75 hours and the time period of moving coke on 11/2/41 is 17.75 hours. The coke used and corpses-cremated values are about the same though.”

        Now where exactly he get the time and amount of coke in his math, I’m not sure. Maybe he has the amount of coke which was sent to the camp, but I’m not sure. It seems he’s working off Irvings estimates on the demand of the coke. Also I have no access to the amount of coke which was stored in Gusen at that point in time.

        According to Topf the amount which can be cremated in a single double muffle oven in 24 hours is 114 bodies. This number can be grabbed off the cremation total given for Krema one and dividing it by 3. That’s around 57 bodies per muffle.

        Here is my math.

        340 / 3 / 2 = 57 bodies per muffle every twenty four hours.

        The rate of cremation meets the demand. I have done the math and someone can come up with 113 bodies by rounding down but we need to find the total per muffle. This would mean around 2.6 bodies per hour on cremation rate per hour, but since the oven holds two bodies at once we can round it up to 4.

        Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 1:47 pm

      • I think I see where he’s getting his numbers, but they seem beside the point. The amount of Coke used was 249 out of 346. In what measurement this Coke is, I’m not sure. As the document is to fuzzy, it says under “Coke Cart” 1 = 60 (something) though I cannot make out the abbreviation.

        If anyone here can make it out let me know.

        Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 2:55 pm

        • It looks like I’ve confused you. I posted to you below to clear up any confusion hopefully. I think we are, more or less, in agreement. You’ve shown a cremation rate of about 2 corpses an hour per muffle with the Gusen oven.

          I’ve posted this on Rodoh as well:
          https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2548&p=78670#p78670

          Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 4:26 pm

        • BTW, just search for my username “blake121666” to find my below reply. I think I only have a few posts on this page so you’d find it pretty quickly.

          Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 4:27 pm

          • So, the cremation rate per hour is not consistent? Alright, and in what way does this mean the ovens couldn’t reach the math I have provided? I do understand these ovens need heating, but I have provided a rather clear explanation. The corpse supply was most likely not consistent, a corpse pile was most likely fed throughout the day. Mind they were not keeping track of the times at which each body was burned. So your 50 minute cremation time estimates are as good as Rebbis claim that Napoleon gassed Haitians inside ships. It would need to be expanded on.

            As I have said, it’s quite simple that each column means one day. And while we are on the same page in same areas, I do not believe I misused the time sheet. The timesheet was as a retort to Jims Idiotic rants. Not Mattognos book. I think HC did a good enough response to Mattogno and I just wanted to provide something which clearly shows to Jim how much these ovens were able to eat.

            As for 2 corpses per hour, no… My math came out with 3 with a round up to 4 considering the muffles held onto two bodies.

            According to my estimates its 57 bodies every day In each muffle.

            I’ll look up your comment, though if it is the one which claims I misinterpreted the timesheet then I have already see it. I see you have the conversion which I was looking for though, thanks.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 5:12 pm

            • Even with your 94 corpses in 2 muffles in 20 hours estimate, that is 47 corpses (94/2) per muffle in 20 hours (1200 minutes). (1200 minutes)/(47 corpses) = 26 minutes. You might be forgetting that figures are for 2 muffles. As for this statement:

              “My math came out with 3 with a round up to 4 considering the muffles held onto two bodies”

              That cannot happen of course. There is no space to hold multiple whole corpses at the same time. You could do as in my earlier reply: put another corpse in during post-combustion phase of the first corpse but definitely not 2 whole corpses at a time. There are a BAZILLION reasons why you would not do this; not least of which is that cremation rate depends on weight which depends on volume (length cubed) but the heat of cremation works on surface (length squared). It would take you longer to cremate 2 persons at a time than those 2 done sequentially. If we were talking about incinerators, this wouldn’t apply; but we are talking about cremation ovens here – it most certainly DOES apply.

              Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 5:38 pm

              • Follow my math from my post above, it quite clearly shows that for 2 muffles the max is 114 corpses. This would make 57 the max, I’m not going to work off a time sheet to find the number of corpses per hour as its inaccurate.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 5:46 pm

                • The timesheet is HARD EMPIRICAL DATA – there’s NOTHING more accurate than that. If you wish to put your head in the clouds and argue angels dancing on pinheads, have fun with that.

                  By your figuring, the maximum sustained daily total was 94 corpses in what you claim to be, let’s say, 19 hours – even though it’s hard empirical data, interpretations of the EXACT time could vary given how this data has been given – I could see it as 24 hours if I wished and hand wave that. But let’s use 19. 19 hours = 1140 minutes => 94 cremations in 2 muffles in 1140 minutes is 24 minutes per cremation per muffle or about 60 bodies a day.

                  Having just written that, I now fail to see why you appear to be arguing with me here! My numbers are even MORE than your numbers (just for argument’s sake of course). lol

                  That does not compute to 4 an hour per muffle. It is 24 minutes per corpse per muffle (+ one additional 20 minute post-combustion phase at the end … which we’ll just ignore).

                  Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 5:58 pm

                • Total approx Fifty crematories 1 body per hr 20 hrs per day around 1000 bodies per day.
                  Not rocket science.

                  In case you missed it
                  Cremations 101…
                  According to a November 27, 1986, repo­rt of the New Delhi Schenectady Gazette­, cremations and the consumption of wood­ involved therein (due to the lack of c­orpses that will burn by themselves) are­ a serious concern for the inhabitants of India, since entire forests have been­ cut down over time for just this purpo­se. According to this report, the daily ­ incineration of 21,000 bodies requires ­6,433 metric tons of wood, i.e., 675 lb­s. per body. In applying these condition­s to Treblinka, we shall simplify the m­atter somewhat by ignoring the problems ­involved in the prior exhumation of the­ bodies; let it suffice to consider only­ one unreality, namely the incineration­ of the bodies. To forestall objections­ of any kind, we shall reduce the consum­ption of wood for mass cremations from ­675 lbs. to 440 lbs. per body.110 From v­arious eyewitness accounts it follows t­hat the cremation process lasted until ­early August, a total of about 185 days.­ This means that a minimum of 4,700 bod­ies had to be cremated every day, requir­ing 950 metric tons of dry wood daily. ­The engineering handbook Hütte indicates­ a volume of 74.15 cu.ft. per metric to­n for spruce wood,111 and of 109.5 cu.ft­. per metric ton for spruce wood fire l­ogs.112 This means that the volume of t­he wood needed in Treblinka daily for in­cinerating the corpses would have been ­about 104,000 cu.ft. This volume is perh­aps easier to grasp when visualized as ­a stack 3 ft. high, 3 ft. wide and about­ 1.75 miles long. Every day! The cremat­ion gratings, described by Warszawski as­ measuring 13 ft. × 33 ft. and with 1.5­ ft. elevation above the ground, had a ­spatial volume of approximately 650 cu.f­t. underneath the grating. To ensure th­at the firewood would receive enough dra­ft (oxygen), a maximum of 530 cu.ft. co­uld have been placed underneath. This qu­antity corresponds to a net weight of 1­0,600 lbs. and would have sufficed for ­cremating 24 (twenty-four!) bodies. If o­ne assumes that, in this case, the comp­lete incineration of the bodies took onl­y 2 hours (which, however, is far too s­hort to be realistic), then even cremati­ng ‘round-the-clock’ would have dispose­d of 288 bodies at most.

                  The high piling-up of bodies on the gr­ating, as it is described by witnesses,­ would have brought nothing but disadvan­tages, if only due to the inhibited acc­ess granted the flames. But if 4,700 bod­ies had to be burned every day, this wo­uld have required more than 16 gratings ­as described above, with a total surfac­e area of 6,890 sq.ft. Stoking the crem­ation sites with wood, and removing the ­ashes and skeletons, are elements which­ have been ignored to date. Given the he­at of the fire under the gratings and t­he stench of the burning bodies, it woul­d have been impossible to perform these­ necessary tasks while the fire was bur­ning. It is thus safe to say that contin­uous cremation in the manner described,­ and using the burning sites described b­y the witnesses, would not have been po­ssible. Burning the 4,700 bodies would h­ave required at least twice the number ­of gratings. With reference to the numbe­r of bodies to be incinerated, we still­ need to examine the source, processing­ and transportation of the needed quanti­ties of firewood. The total cremation p­rocess in Treblinka would have required ­430 million pounds, or 195,000 metric t­ons, of air-dried (seasoned) wood. Due t­o the short notice and brief time that ­Himmler allegedly allotted for this pro­cess, such a large quantity of air-dried­ wood would certainly have been impossi­ble to get, which is why only fresh (“gr­een”) wood of lower calorific value wou­ld have been available. The calorific va­lue of seasoned wood is 3,600 kcal/kg, ­whereas that of green wood is only 2,000­ kcal/kg.113 Therefore the total requir­ed quantity of wood would have increase­d to 351,000 metric tons, and the daily ­requirement of green wood was thus appr­oximately 1,900 metric tons.

                  Assuming medium-sized trees of 1 cord ­volume and 1,500 lbs., the total number ­of trees needed comes to roughly 515,00­0. There were two options for obtaining­ the required quantity of wood: either t­here was a large forested area near the­ camp where the demand for firewood coul­d be met, and whence the wood would the­n be transported to the camp with suitab­le vehicles, or the wood had to be brou­ght in from other areas by rail. Let us­ suppose for the moment that the wood su­pply was nearby. Assuming that a 15-ton­ truck can make 3 runs daily, allowing f­or loading and unloading of the truck, ­then 126 trips would need to be made dai­ly, using some 42 trucks. None of the e­yewitness statements indicate the prese­nce of such a fleet of trucks. The same ­goes for the labor force required for t­he daily felling, limbing, sawing and sp­litting as well as loading and unloadin­g of 2,800 trees. If, given the primitiv­e conditions that prevailed, we assume ­that two man could have processed – tha­t is, felled, limbed, sawed and split – ­one tree per day (an utter illusion), t­hen the lumberjacks would clearly have h­ad to number at least 5,600. To give an­ idea of how large a forest would need t­o be in order to supply such vast quant­ities of wood, let us assume a yield of ­ 325 cord per acre, which for 515,000 tr­ees would require a forest of 1,590 acr­es, or just short of 2.5 square miles. T­o put it more graphically, such a fores­t would have been 2.5 miles long and 1 m­ile wide. Is it really conceivable that­ the witnesses and the local residents ­could have failed to notice such a large­ deforested area? The site would still ­be apparent today. If one proceeds inste­ad on the assumption that the quantity ­of wood needed would not have been avai­lable locally, then it would have had to­ be brought in from elsewhere, for exam­ple in the form of large fire logs, in r­ail wagons. If one performs the corresp­onding calculations for this scenario, t­hen a freight train of 63 cars of 30 me­tric tons each would have had to be unl­oaded in the camp every day – a total of­ 185 freight trains. In the end the tot­al length of the trains would have reach­ed 116 km, or 72 miles. This begs the q­uestion: where are the pertinent Reichsb­ahn (German Railway) documents about th­ese enormous wood transports? The autho­rities and offices in question would har­dly have dispensed with payment and not­ submitted their accounts. Regarding the­ claim that the 875,000 corpses were el­iminated completely with out any trace, ­we must consider the quantities of ashe­s that remain. The quantities of wood a­shes are considerable, and vary with the­ type of wood. We shall postulate the l­ow value of 6.6 lbs. per ton of dry wood­.112 The wood ashes remaining would the­n have weighed approximately 1,000 metri­c tons; the equivalent of the payload o­f 100 10-ton trucks. The ash content of ­a human body makes up about 5.6% of the­ body’s weight;114 given a 132 lb. body­, this comes to 7.3 lbs. The ashes from ­the 875,000 burned bodies would thus ha­ve weighed 6,387,500 lbs. The total quan­tity of ashes – wood ashes plus human a­shes – would therefore have weighed almo­st 4,000 metric tons, or 8.6 million po­unds, all of which (according to the wi­tnesses) were then mixed with the soil a­nd thrown back into the pits.115 Even i­f this quantity of ash had been mixed wi­th the roughly 3.53 million cubic feet ­of soil excavated from the burial pits, ­it would be easy to find evidence for h­uman remains of the quantity alleged by ­ the witnesses.

                  It must also be noted that in the incin­eration of corpses under the conditions­ specified by the witnesses, the bones ­would not have turned to ash, but would ­have remained as bones. The witnesses h­ave described how the skeletal remains o­f the corpses were broken up, and scree­ned and sifted over and over again to en­sure that no evidence would remain. Giv­en the primitive equipment described by ­the witnesses – wooden rollers and thin­ sheets of metal for crushing the bones­ – it might have been possible for a man­ to break up and sift two skeletons per­ hour in the manner specified. Thus, if ­one Jewish laborer had pulverized 20 sk­eletons per day, 240 Jewish laborers wou­ld have been needed for this task alone­. Adding up the required personnel – 5,6­00 Jewish laborers for obtaining the wo­od, 240 for pulverizing the bones, and ­150 to stoke the fire sites – fully 6,00­0 Jewish workers were needed to complet­e all the required tasks in a solid seve­n-day work week. Additionally, further ­hundreds of Jewish workers would have be­en needed to carry out various other ta­sks reported by witnesses: excavating an­d filling trenches, camouflage activiti­es, sorting the valuables of the murder­ed Jews, cutting the hair and extracting­ the gold teeth of the victims, renderi­ng services to the SS, administration, r­ations and supplies for the camp, etc. ­There would also have to have been reser­ve labor standing by at all times. Thus­ the camp would have had to have a perm­anent workforce of at least 8,000. This ­number stands in glaring contrast to th­e mere 700 Jewish laborers attested to f­or Treblinka.116 And finally, we must n­ote that the teeth of the supposed victi­ms could not have been destroyed by the­ primitive methods attested to.117 Even ­if each of the alleged victims had only­ 20 of the usual 32 teeth left at the t­ime he or she died, there would have bee­n at least 17.5 million teeth to be dis­posed of at Treblinka. This means that w­e should still be able to find some 5 t­eeth per cubic foot of the 3.53 million ­cu.ft. of material excavated at the all­eged site of the crime. All these calcu­lations are based on the number of victi­ms (875,000) specified by the Jerusalem­ court. If, on the other hand, one were ­to postulate the 3 million Treblinka vi­ctims alleged by Grossmann and others, t­hen the data ascertained in the previou­s must be multiplied by a factor of 3.5,­ meaning: 6,650 metric tons of wood dai­ly to cremate the corpses; a total of a­pproximately 1,200,000 tons of firewood,­ i.e., almost two million trees, for wh­ose transport trains totaling about 252 ­miles would have been required. The are­a of the forest thus required amounts to­ 9 square miles. There would have been ­roughly 13,700 tons of ashes to hide, c­ontaining at least 60 million teeth. And­ where on earth were the 20,000 Jewish ­laborers needed to do all the work invol­ved?

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 6:06 pm

                • I have stated again that it doesn’t tell use how long the corpses cremated per corpse. It’s a very inaccurate estimate. I don’t plan to expand anymore.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 7:23 pm

                • The timesheet is HARD EMPIRICAL DATA – there’s NOTHING more accurate than that. If you wish to put your head in the clouds and argue angels dancing on pinheads, have fun with that.
                  By your figuring, the maximum sustained daily total was 94 corpses in what you claim to be, let’s say, 19 hours – even though it’s hard empirical data, interpretations of the EXACT time could vary given how this data has been given – I could see it as 24 hours if I wished and hand wave that. But let’s use 19. 19 hours = 1140 minutes => 94 cremations in 2 muffles in 1140 minutes is 24 minutes per cremation per muffle or about 60 bodies a day.
                  Having just written that, I now fail to see why you appear to be arguing with me here! My numbers are even MORE than your numbers (just for argument’s sake of course). lol
                  That does not compute to 4 an hour per muffle. It is 24 minutes per corpse per muffle (+ one additional 20 minute post-combustion phase at the end … which we’ll just ignore).”

                  Alright, let me make my reply more readable.

                  Divide your way down the Topf calculations from Auschwitz for Krema 1. Relying off the the Timesheet as explained is not reliable. The times listed on the side are times of operation and not direct estimates for the time it took to cremate a single body at once. So the best estimates we can grab are off from Topf. This is ignoring the fact that these are not single body ovens, which I’m sure has been explained to you countless times.

                  The 40 minutes number can reach 4 bodies an hour quite easily, as it can have the mixing of ash. It’s two bodies cremating at once from the start. I’m quite sure you have read Pressac and understand how the muffles were loaded.

                  As to continue Zimmerman has a retort essay against Mattognos writing, which Bob obviously hasn’t read. Which clearly shows that Zimmerman is correct and the Mattogno was wrong.

                  Anyway, I’ll just leave it at that.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 9:05 pm

        • Miss Click. What is the coke,you keep referring to? I’m pretty sure the Germans weren’t packing themselves with nose candy. The only other thing I can come up with,it’s a reducing agent for smelting iron ore,in a blast furnace. They use it to make “water gas”. I ain’t gonna lie. Don’t have the first clue what water gas is.

          Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

          • It’s a form of Coal, you can find its wiki page by searching “Coke (fuel)”. It never really had an original intention and was first used for cooking, then moved onto metal work. In the late years of the 1800’s it started to be used for crematoriums. Depending on the grade Coke can reach temperatures between 1800*F and 3600*F.

            The grade used in the Topf ovens was the 1800*F grade. That is just my butchered explanation.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 25, 2016 @ 3:07 pm

            • More truth about cremations….
              http://www.whale.to/b/crematoriums_h.html

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 3:14 pm

              • Doesn’t this site also advocate the US government tried to destroy the black community’s with Crack?

                Comment by Lóegaire — June 25, 2016 @ 6:44 pm

                • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

                  I love conspiraloons, don’t you?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 7:05 pm

                • Typical Jew think…..you dismiss the whole website for something else the site talks about…..
                  How fair is that? Lets deal with the article on hand but no you throw the red herring across the trail to try to sidestep what the real article is about. Who cares if the blacks were set up on crack by the Govt. thats not what this topic is about. But again this is how the Jews work to divert your attention from the main article. Why do they do this? Simple they been beat by the article and they don’t want to you see it for what it is.

                  Congratulations you HoloHuxsters you’ve proved our point exactly on what you real purpose is here.
                  You don’t want open debate you want to spew your HoloHoax crap to people who have no clue whether they are coming or going on the topic, so you throw out more confusion.
                  Sorry to say, many of us here don’t fall for your methods. We deal with truth and not creative lies.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 7:19 pm

                • I always tell everyone if they want a site that’s only got one view, hit one ran by the United Klans of America or the ABs. FG is very fair here . I’ve told her,she’s one of the few remaining journalist left,that actually perform like a “true” journalist. She allows both side to make their case and people to decide by the evidence both sides present here. She guarantees “freedom of speech” here.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:27 pm

                • I don’t know if you’re American or not,but you give our leaders,way too much credit. Crack was bought on by the drug dealers. I was in south Florida when it hit the streets . How the hell you think Escobar got so damned rich? Castro cleaned out his prisons and dumped all his trash on us. They rushed all the Cubans through tent city in Miami . They got on the streets of south Florida . There was always shit between them,Jamaicans,Puerto Ricans and the local drug dealers. Crack hit the streets and South Florida became Dodge City. Ever see the movie “scarface”,with Al Pachino? The beginning of the movie,you had the shootout in the street. That pretty much hit the nail on the head. I was at Penrods ( a club on the beach) one night. I heard gun shots outside . I rushed to see what was going on. Doorman told me,”you leave out,you gotta pay a cover charge to get back in”. That’s how common place the shit was. A few people got shot,but he was worried about his cover charge. Blow will keep your ass going all night . Yet it can’t touch crack. Dealers are always looking to stretch their product. Crack was the answer. They discovered how to cut it and cook it down. You’re in paradise for about 15 minutes ( depending on how it’s cut). You come down,you want another hit. Crack is equal opportunity. White,black,rich,poor,male or female,all are welcome. No,the American government is too stupid to cook up a conspiracy like that. That’s why Pablo Escobar went into high gear with the coke he had coming into this country. People that get strung out on this shit will tell you,”I ain’t a crack addict,I’m a rock monster”.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:53 pm

                • “Typical Jew think…..you dismiss the whole website for something else the site talks about…..”

                  I never dismissed the entire site…. I just asked a simple question… Also I have read this site before, and Its pretty much a copy paste of a good amount of Irving’s work.

                  “How fair is that? Lets deal with the article on hand but no you throw the red herring across the trail to try to sidestep what the real article is about. Who cares if the blacks were set up on crack by the Govt. thats not what this topic is about. But again this is how the Jews work to divert your attention from the main article. Why do they do this? Simple they been beat by the article and they don’t want to you see it for what it is.”

                  You do it as well, in fact you have dismissed a good amount of the things Click has provided…. As well what red herring could I make exactly? could you explain this to me? It was a question cause I remember this site holding pretty much every last conspiracy theory advocating it as fact without providing evidence, and it pretty much just copies pages from Irving and Zundel…

                  “Congratulations you HoloHuxsters you’ve proved our point exactly on what you real purpose is here.”

                  Congratulations Jim, You have over-exaggerated my question, not to mention you have lied your ass off here as well. You have dismissed quite a lot, as shown with Click.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 26, 2016 @ 10:14 am

                • Pay close attention to the caption:

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 10:18 am

              • ”No HIV virus has ever been proven to exist…. AIDS is not a new disease, but a collection of old diseases renamed, and that the real threat to the public’s health are the worthless HIV tests and toxic HIV/AIDS drugs.”—–Curtis Cost

                http://vwww.whale.to/aids.html

                Yes this site is fully ‘accurate’ Jim…. I see why you use it.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 9:58 am

                • According to whale, Hitler was a British agent, Reinhard Heydrich was a homosexual and Goering was both a British agent AND a transexual.

                  Oh, and the Poles created Auschwitz.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 10:13 am

                • Actually the Jews created the horror Disneyland Auschwitz.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 10:17 am

                • Actually, according to whale it was the Poles:

                  Read the caption, Jim

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 10:26 am

                • I would imagine the Jewish influenced Poles were the ones responsible for Horror Disneyland..
                  That’s not that hard to figure out is it.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 10:29 am

                • Lol the Polish death camp theory! I love that one!

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:22 am

                • Click head I do agree with that post on that guy said about AIDS is no doubt about it when you really do the research to find out about it but again you’re too stupid to do that so why bother. Again I see that you dragged the red herring over the trail again to take people off topic here you refused to comment on his Holocaust facts not an honorable person you’re very Sly and dishonest and what you do.
                  Why don’t you just deal with the fact that the Holocaust is the biggest scam that ever came down the pike and all the Holocaust Survivors are just big fat Liars they would never ever survive in a court setting because it would be just blown apart by their lies but then again so would you.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 10:13 am

                • “Click head I do agree with that post on that guy said about AIDS is no doubt about it when you really do the research to find out about it but again you’re too stupid to do that so why bother.”

                  Or maybe I’m more sensible then you are. Jim, I have worked with HIV in a class before. Epidemiology was a Minor I too last year and dropped out from. Your a fucking idiot who believes he has to be able to see it to believe it. HIV has been proven quite well.

                  “Again I see that you dragged the red herring over the trail again to take people off topic here you refused to comment on his Holocaust facts not an honorable person you’re very Sly and dishonest and what you do.”

                  The point still stands… This site has no credentials to it as well… Its a copy paste forum as Anon as mentioned. There is no real reason to expand on the point as we all have explained to you countless times that you are wrong about cremation. Its not us being dishonest, Its us having a good laugh. Now crawl back into your shell dumb ass and let the big boy Blake try and tell how the cremation worked…

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:21 am

                • From the brilliant minds at whale:

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 10:24 am

            • This is what fuels the ovens ? If it’s used for smelting,I’m guessing it keeps a pretty constant temperature .

              Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:20 pm

              • Some of the ovens, not all of them. Majdanek has 5 coke muffles and 2 oil ovens.

                Anyway it lasts a good amount of time and burns pretty persistently. Coke doesn’t always create smoke so when a ‘revisionist’ tells you there needs to be a smoking chimney, don’t take them seriously. Also mind that witnesses of the chimney didn’t see it all to often.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:02 am

              • Each muffle of each oven is burning off the same source. So its basically burning 3 bodies for the price of one (meaning if they only held one body in each muffle.).

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:04 am

                • You wrote about the cremation ovens at Auschwitz. I have photos and information about the ovens on my website at
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08B.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 10:31 am

                • Thanks I guess… But I don’t really intend to look at a reconstruction. I’ll stick with Buchenwalds muffles. There is plenty of photos and footage, and they show quite clearly the amount of room the muffles had, and they are not poor polish reconstructions.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:51 am

                • You wrote: “I’ll stick with Buchenwalds muffles. There is plenty of photos and footage, and they show quite clearly the amount of room the muffles had, and they are not poor polish reconstructions.”

                  I have seen the Buchenwald ovens in person. I took photos and described the ovens on my website at
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/Ovens.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 12:52 pm

                • “I have seen the Buchenwald ovens in person. I took photos and described the ovens on my website at”

                  Alright…

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:04 pm

                • Back in the 9th century,the Chinese were using coke. They used it for heating and cooking . Around the 11th century,they began to use it at their Yellow valley iron works plant. That solved their problem for material needed to run the iron works. U S Steel (AKA Carnegie Steel,before Andrew sold it) said they used the coke that had the lowest amount of impurities yet had the highest thermal energy. In order to make coke,you need an oxygen deficient environment . Has to kept at a temp of 1200 degrees. They took selected coal from certain mines,to make coke of the highest quality. I’m brining all this up,because did they ever employ chemist to select the coke for them? I mean they wanted to keep production numbers up,so they’d have to employ someone,that knows what quality coke is. That make sense

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 11:47 am

                • The German government paid for the coke off from companies. Then they shipped coke to places like Auschwitz. According to Van pelt the ovens were heated and for each new body three and a half kg was used. Its not exactly a happy figure, but its a good show that Coke lasts. And against Jims wishes the oven is able to cremate a corpse quite well. As Blake has mentioned it was 20 min in the muffle, with an extra 20 minutes if the operator wishes to leave the ash in the grate for a period of time. This is a huge reason behind why people must be careful with figures.

                  As for the chance the nazi’s had a program for the production of coke, this would be something new for me to hear. I am aware of a good amount of bureaucracy in this so it wouldn’t be very shocking. As for quality coke, I believe they wouldn’t exactly care. The German were not working with steel when it comes to these ovens.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 12:13 pm

                • click head ….
                  you must be on crack today,. to think that you can burn a body on that little amount of coke you need around 70 pounds for just one body to do it correctly.
                  Are you that stupid to believe that you can do it with just a few pounds????? Unbelievable! But again you have to make everything fit your story the amount of people that you can jam into one crematory how little amount of coke you need because of the fact that they were no high piles of coke on site, you have to be stupid and make statements like that complete nonsense I’m getting so tired of hearing you out here it’s ridiculous what you’re saying.
                  I don’t mind having a conversation with you here but if you honestly think you can burn a body with just a few pounds of coke it’s just so stupid…. I’m still thinking what’s going on with this guy, girl. Gay whatever. Maybe the coke came From the Planet Krypton.

                  JR
                  .

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 12:22 pm

                • You do understand what “According to Van Pelt” means, right? I haven’t made the claim it was Van Pelt. I will decided later if he is correct once I get “The Case for Auschwitz”. (Not Mattogno’s book.)

                  Also no, you are completely ignoring the countless documentation presented to you which clearly states that a body only lasts 20 min inside the muffle. As I have also stated earlier “20 to 30 kg” according to Irving, and I also stated the best estimate that I can give is 60… This doesn’t mean that the coke wouldn’t last long enough to move onto the next body. I also mentioned 3.5 was “ADDED” not the actual amount which the body burned on… the 3.5 kg was added with each body after a preheating. This again is still something I’m looking through to correct on. Its been a while since I have taken the time to go through the transcript.

                  Regardless of your idiotic dreams Jim the amount of bodies which could be cremated has been well stated. It was also shown at Gusen, and it was shown in the operation manual. Its just you don’t care about real history.

                  “Now the pulsed air blower situated to the side of the furnace should be switched on and run for about 20 minutes, ensuring that the two cremation chambers do not receive too much or too little fresh air.

                  Regulation of the fresh air is by means of a rotary valve in the sir duct. In addition, the air intakes, to the right and left of the chamber doors, should be half open.

                  As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further 20 minutes to be fully consumed, then the ashes should be placed in the container and set aside to cool.”

                  Cremation took 20 min which is against your early on assertion.

                  And since you which to complain about Van pelts estimates I found you this.

                  ” [Giwer] “You are the one supporting 2 kg of coke for each body after the first. ”

                  According the Walter Müller, of the engineering firm Allach, in regards to the fuel consumption of incineration furnaces:

                  “Müller claimed that there was a direct relation between increased use and increased economy. If the cold furnace required 175 kilograms (kg) of coke to start up a new incineration, it needed only 100 kg. if it had been used the day before; a second and third incineration on the same day would not require any extra fuel thanks to the compressed air; and those that followed would call for only small amounts of extra energy…” (Anatomy, pp.185-186.)

                  How small is “amounts of extra energy?” Two kg of coke’s worth?

                  It is also interesting to note that according to the Operating Instructions for Coke-Fired Topf Double-Muffle Incineration Furnace that:

                  “After each incineration, the temperature rises in the furnace. For this reason, care be taken that the internal temperature does not rise above 1100C (white heat)…. Thsi increase in temeprature can be avoided by introducing additional fresh air.” (Technique, p.136.)

                  This, of course, supports the assertion that the combustion of the corpses acted as fuel for the incineratoin process, thus reducing the amount of coke needed to heat the furnace.

                  In addition, Henryk Tauber, a Sonderkommando in Krema II, testified:

                  “…As I have already said, there were five furnaces in Krematorium II, each with three muffles for cremating corpses and heated by two coke-fired hearths. The fire flues of the hearths came out above the [ash] collection boxes of the two side muffles. Thus the flames went first round the two side muffles then heated the centre one, from where the combustion gases were led out below the furnace, between the two firinf hearths. Thanks to this arrangement, the incineration process for the corspes of the side muffles differed from that of the centre muffle. The corpses of <> or wasted people with no fat burned rapidly in the side muffles and slowly in the center one. Conversely, the corspes of the people gassed directly on arrival, not being wasted, burned better in the center muffle…. During the incineration of such corpses, we used the coke only to light the fire of furnace initially, for fatty corpses burned of their own accord thanks the combustion of the body fat. On occasion, when the coke was in short supply, we would put some straw and wood in the ash bins…under the muffles, and once the fat of the corpse began to burn the corpses would catch light themselves….” (Ibid. p.489.)

                  “…At the begining of the cremation process, the furnaces were heated only by their fireboxes and the charges burned slowly. Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the fires were generally extinguished. When this type of body was charged into a hot furnace, fat immediately began to flow intop the ash bin, where it caught fire and started the combustion of the body. When > were being creamated, it was necessary to constantly refuel the fireboxes….” (Ibid. p.495.)

                  Here, we can see that Tauber has indicated that the “incineration of fat bodies” did not require much, if any, extra fuel. ”

                  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/cremation-009.html

                  Also mind that 3.5 Kg per corpse isn’t exactly awful, it builds up to Irvings estimate quite well.

                  3.5 X 6 = 21 kg.

                  Mind this is after a pre-heat.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:03 pm

                • Is a “muffle” an oven?

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 1:57 pm

                • “Is a “muffle” an oven?”

                  The whole thing is an oven, and the areas in which you place the corpses. Here is a very rough drawing.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 2:07 pm

                • You wrote: “According to [Robert Jan] Van pelt the ovens were heated and for each new body three and a half kg was used. Its not exactly a happy figure, but its a good show that Coke lasts.”

                  I wrote about coke being used to burn bodies at Majdanek.

                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek05.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 1:02 pm

                • “I wrote about coke being used to burn bodies at Majdanek.”

                  Majdaneks ovens were not created by Topf… That is if I remember correctly, I would have to read pressacs essay again.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:05 pm

                • One of the best articles on the topic for those that missed it before….
                  Or you can believe the HoloHuxters who think you can cremate one body in
                  twenty minutes, and use only 5 lbs of coke for the process. Hard to believe anyone can believe this crap.
                  Must be the miraculous never ending variety that goes on and on and on………

                  http://codoh.com/library/document/2556/

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 1:10 pm

                • Jim your and Idiot, If you really believe this. Not even Blake would support you here. Also mind that I again never claimed 3.5 kg was used… This is pelts estimate. Also mind that Mattogno said cremation took 40 min, which I haven’t argued otherwise, you just don’t understand cremation continues past the muffle. Carlo came to this estimate completely based off the same document I have provided you.

                  Mattognos argument is well over, and you even ignore good portions of his claim. It also ignores that Pressac uses the document he uses for his 40 minute calculation in his book, making Mattognos argument idiotic.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:19 pm

                • You wrote: “Jim your and Idiot, If you really believe this.”

                  The correct way to write this sentence would be:

                  “You’re an idiot if you really believe this.”

                  Is English your second language?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 1:24 pm

                • I’m not really looking to type perfectly FG. At least for the comments of a wordpress. I am trying to spend the bare minimum (time wise) when it comes to posting. I just pretty much want to read Jims posts, respond, and then not bother to correct anything unless I notice it within a minute after posting. Otherwise I am writing an essay for my history class on the roman period and artifacts. The more careless I am typing to anyone here, the more time I get to spend on my essay.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:31 pm

                • You wrote: “The more careless I am typing to anyone here, the more time I get to spend on my essay.”

                  I taught myself to type on a manual typewriter when I was 13 years old. I could type 60 words per minute when I started High School. I got my first job as a typist; minimum wage was 40 cents per hour back then, but I made 50 cents per hour because I was a fast typist.

                  I can now type 100 words per minute or more on a computer keyboard.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 1:38 pm

                • “I taught myself to type on a manual typewriter when I was 13 years old. ”

                  I didn’t grow up with a type writer and I’m part of a generation which doesn’t invest itself like yours. I will most likely focus more on making an impression outside my needed work later on in my life.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:56 pm

                • As long as you’re still talking about ovens,how come nobody ever put a case on the company that supplied the ovens ? The prosecutor was going ape shit putting a case on everybody. Why leave the oven company outta the fun. Like I said,if we’re gonna prosecute an RTO,let’s go the distance and nail everybody .

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 3:16 pm

                • I believed some of the staff was charged and the others committed suicide. I’ll see what I can find on it… I can tell you Ludwig Topf killed himself. Ernst-Wolfgang was put on trial but was declared innocent. As for the others… I am not sure.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 4:24 pm

                • When it comes to your sentence structure,just remember this. FG is a journalist. You’re not the Lone Ranger . She’s jumped dead in my shit before over word usage and how I structure my words . I guess all journalists are like that. Don’t engage her in talk about photography. She’s also a photographer . She’ll talk about ancient cameras. The only reason I’ve ever heard about them is because Pop may have owned one of them

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

                • A journalist? Hmm I’m not sure how she makes money from her WordPress, but alright. That is unless you mean she works for a news paper, if she does then that is quite interesting.

                  Anyway jokes aside I wouldn’t say she’s a journalist. I would label her a Blogger, and while she could give advise which is golden, I prefer not to provide to much time to posting. I do love reading her blogs and I do respect her experience, my issue stems mostly against Jim. Spelling and sentence structure doesn’t exactly matter in that case, as he won’t spend more then 10 seconds reading everything then just claim it’s a Jewish lie.

                  As well, I’m not someone like FG who things out her posts or WordPress additions. I write as I go. It’s simple and it’s fast.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 3:49 pm

                • I know a person can’t money off this. Journalist as in her career. It’s been so long since I read it,but she got her degree at some university in Missouri . She’s retired so she can put time into her site here

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 5:47 pm

                • I’m still trying to understand if FG is a she or he.
                  I say he…..

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 5:59 pm

                • “I’m still trying to understand if FG is a she or he.
                  I say he…..”

                  As usual you are wrong.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 6:10 pm

                • Prove it…..

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 6:13 pm

                • You know, Jim, I almost did it.

                  Once, a while back, I started researching this blog.

                  I did it out of curiosity, mostly. I used to investigate food stamp fraud so I know what public records to look for, what websites to look at.
                  Nothing I found is private, everything I found is a public record.

                  I almost, just because I enjoy proving you wrong, showed you what I found.
                  Then, I realized, that would violate FG’s privacy. This is her blog, if nothing else I am a guest.
                  She feels the need to keep her name private. I will respect that.

                  So, believe me. Or not. It doesn’t matter to me.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 6:38 pm

                • I was just wanting to know,because I don’t wanna keep saying FG in my responses numerous times

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 6:42 pm

                • No. You’re sparring partner Jeff ( don’t say anything here) said he researched “further glory” and came to the conclusion FG is a female. Ask him how he came to that conclusion. I figure if she wasn’t a man,she would’ve bit my head off by now

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 6:36 pm

                • Gut feeling…. FG is a guy.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 6:47 pm

                • Ah alright, so she’s retired! And I’ll be a bit more carful of such then in the future.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 6:13 pm

                • Well it don’t matter one way or another,but I thought I’d tell you she was in the journalistic field.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 6:39 pm

                • Its interesting, but as you have said. It doesn’t matter.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 6:42 pm

                • You wrote: “Majdaneks ovens were not created by Topf…”

                  Back in 1997 when I first created my scrapbookpages.com website, I mentioned on this page that ALL the ovens were made by Topf. I had learned this information on a visit to the Dachau camp in 1997. Unfortunately, I was new at writing about the Holocaust and I did not give a link to the website or book where I got this information. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/MemorialSite/Tour/Tour23C.html

                  If the ovens were not made by Topf, what company DID make the ovens at Majdanek?

                  What does it matter what company made the ovens?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 1:19 pm

                • It makes a large difference instruction wise. It would mean different rules would most definitely apply. Meaning that people would need to rely on that companies estimates and not Topfs. From what I remember they were Kori ovens.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:25 pm

                • You wrote: “From what I remember they were Kori ovens.”

                  I did a search on this and found on my own website that the ovens were Kori ovens. This makes sense, since Kori was probably the oven company in Poland.

                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek05.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 1:31 pm

                • I did a search on this and found on my own website that the ovens were “Kori ovens. This makes sense, since Kori was probably the oven company in Poland.
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek05.html

                  I am 100% sure Hans Kori made the metal ovens which were held in the old crematorium. As for the new crematorium I am not sure, at the moment I am skimming Pressacs essacy (The shortcomings and inconsistencies in the “Report Leuchter”).

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:36 pm

                • Yeah the 5 muffle oven was made by Kori. Please forgive the translation, my french is very loose compared to Anon, so I had to use google trans.

                  “The seventh alleged homicidal gas chamber is located in the new crematorium with a massive assembly of five monomoufles Kori ovens can cremate 300 bodies in 24 hours (the official figure is 1,000 per day).”

                  Kori ovens burn bodies around 700*C while a Topf oven burns around 980*C (it only preheats to 800*C).

                  Topfs ovens are made to cremate two bodies at once and use the fat as a supporting heat source. While most of Kori’s ovens are single body muffles.

                  I could go on, but I think you get the point.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 1:52 pm

                • Clickhead………..you still smoking that crack?
                  Fat as a heat source😂
                  This is as bad as them saying Treblinka burned stacks of bodies 30 ft high relying on the fat of the bodies….. complete nonsense.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 3:09 pm

                • Okay Jimbo,you’ve just thrown a monkey wrench into the program here. If I got it correct,I thought Miss Click said flesh and fat would burn pretty quick. Anything left would be bone fragments. Whats this about fat as a heat source.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 3:22 pm

                • Tim for them to even make that comment is absolutely insane but they have to use that because I have no other way to explain how you can burn bodies piled on top of each other. They actually make it look like in Treblinka they were basting turkeys by taking the fat that was dripping off the bodies and putting it back on, these people must be on drugs there is no other way they can say stupid things like this. clickhead must be joking here.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 3:33 pm

                • Jim, Fat that is still hot and braking down would act as a source of heat to the body above it. Combustion would still be happening inside the ash tray. It’s not hard to understand, Coke would still be playing a role.

                  So just like your “Teeth are hard to smash” theory. Complete bullshit.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 3:54 pm

                • Fat burns really well, and it’s shown quite well when obese people set a crematorium on fire.

                  http://gizmodo.com/5915905/dead-obese-woman-carried-so-much-fat-she-set-crematorium-on-fire

                  As well people who cook need to be careful to not set Fat on fire. The cook below does it a few times.

                  It’s also why Animal fat over the years has been used for lanterns. Cause FAT BURNS. The following redneck has a lamp which burns off from Animal fat.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 4:04 pm

                • They ever put a case on the people who made the ovens? I’m asking,because if they’re getting orders for that many ovens,I don’t think they would go with they were going to open a bakery. Prosecution was going ape shit putting cases on everyone else

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:01 pm

                • This fella said 20 to 40 minutes to fire up the body. I guess I read that right. I’m asking because Green Lawn Funeral homes in Springfield,Mo. Said it takes 2 to 2.5 hours to burn a body. They’re using state of the art equipment too.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 1:55 pm

                • “This fella said 20 to 40 minutes to fire up the body. I guess I read that right. I’m asking because Green Lawn Funeral homes in Springfield,Mo. Said it takes 2 to 2.5 hours to burn a body. They’re using state of the art equipment too.”

                  These are different from modern ovens…. These ovens are older and don’t have to destroy all organic material. They mix human ash, cremate two bodies at once, they were not intended for civilian use. Jim’s whole civilian oven argument vs Military oven is as old as time.

                  http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2013/10/viewers-guide-to-auschwitz-surprising_19.html

                  The given link above addresses it quite well.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 2:01 pm

                • The ovens didn’t burn a person completely ? I’m asking because I’m confused. I’m guessing these were intended to be,bake shop ovens. So if they didn’t burn everything,what % of the corpse was left over? If I got everything right ,which I may not

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:17 pm

                • “The ovens didn’t burn a person completely ? ”

                  They burned them down enough that they would be small shards… Like what I was showing in my last chat with Tal. It did burn them down to ash, but some bone fragments survived.

                  https://natanddavetravel.wordpress.com/tag/auschwitz/

                  As for your question, its pretty much everything 99.9% In the end the person would be turned to a shoebox of ash with some bone shards, with a chance of some surviving fat. Modern ovens have to burn bones to where they are completely ash, the Topf ovens just had to brake them down. They were not intended for Baking ovens, though people like “LittleGrayRabbit” would like us to believe that. They were intended to incinerate as many bodies as possible and were created for mass cremation.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 2:28 pm

                • Let me ask this another way. I’m still having trouble with the time frame. You said 20 to 40 minutes to cook a corpse. The funeral home said 2 to 2.5 hours. I’m thinking the ovens now are more efficient . I’m guessing flesh,fat and all that other good shit go pretty quick. You said skeletal structure,didn’t bake all the way. So is that gonna be where the time you say the body burns so far and the funeral home burns it completely . Is that why there’s a big time span between the two. One group burns a corpse to ash. The other one does it just enough to get by. What about bone crushing machine? FG mentioned them before . These things could make the bones almost a powder from what I understand

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:55 pm

                • “You said 20 to 40 minutes to cook a corpse. ”

                  Twenty in the muffle

                  Five to Twenty in the ash collector.

                  “The funeral home said 2 to 2.5 hours.”

                  As explained a funeral home is different. I would recommend reading the Topf instruction manual.

                  “I’m thinking the ovens now are more efficient . I’m guessing flesh,fat and all that other good shit go pretty quick.”

                  How would modern ovens out preform an oven from the past Tim? You have seen the documents and have heard from Blake that one of the leading revisionists which Jim relies on to debunk pressac agrees with what I have presented. Mind that once the bottom corpse falls through the grate another is added on top of the 2nd corpse which has already had time burning. Human fat is quite flammable with enough exposure, it burns away and would help burn away the other body quite well.

                  “You said skeletal structure,didn’t bake all the way.”

                  Correct. but it would be tiny shards to the point that it doesn’t really matter. Bones can still be found around Krema 4 & 5.

                  “So is that gonna be where the time you say the body burns so far and the funeral home burns it completely .”

                  It burns it into ash and the bones down all the way… but it doesn’t mean that its faster at it. Remember the Germans were looking to remove as meany corpses as fast as they could… the faster the body breaks down the faster then you can move onto the next corpse.

                  “Is that why there’s a big time span between the two.”

                  No Modern crematoriums have major factors which make then different.

                  1) Burns one body

                  2) much destroy all organic material.

                  3) The Flames must burn through a Coffin First.

                  The factors above add up time… and the 1 to 3 hour stretch depends on how large the person that is being burned.

                  “One group burns a corpse to ash. The other one does it just enough to get by.”

                  The reasons for why each was build was different. Be mindful these bone shards are smaller then an coin. Here is an example from Chelmno.

                  (mind Chelmno had different furnaces then Auschwitz but had similar results)

                  “What about bone crushing machine?”

                  It was used in places like Treblinka.

                  The crushed bones to the point where they look like this

                  http://www.1000yearsofjewishheritage.com/0_0_0_0_344_258_csupload_64349293.jpg?u=3595756922

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 3:34 pm

                • The bone crushing machine….LOL
                  It was actually a cement mixer I believe or something like that but definitely NOT a bone crushing machine.
                  I see you’ve fallen for all the HoloHoax propaganda pictures……

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 4:14 pm

                • Could you prove it not to be a bone crusher Jim?

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 4:16 pm

                • This came from the same batch of pictures….LOL

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 4:19 pm

                • “On July 16, 1942, the deputy chief of the Gettoverwaltung, Ribbe, sent a letter to “Eldest of the Jews” Rumkowski requesting a canvass of the Lodz ghetto for a bone crusher, “whether manually operated or motor driven”. He added openly, “The Sonderkommando Kulmhof is interested in this crusher”. The ghetto apparently had no such machine, for a few months later Biebow sent to the Lodz Gestapo the papers concerning the purchase of a mill from the firm Schriever and Company in Hamburg. Biebow asked the Gestapo to keep the sales record. “For certain reasons” he himself did not wish to keep it. When Höss visited Kulmhof, Blobel promised the Auschwitz commander that he would send him a mill “for solid substances”. However, Höss preferred to destroy his bone material with hammers.”

                  [The Destruction of the European Jews, Student edition page 250]

                  You have yet to disprove the Bone Mill Jim.

                  http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/12/mattogno-on-chemno-cremation-part-1.html?m=1#_ftnref22

                  That still doesn’t act as evidence against the bone mill. It’s not even the same item as well, you would need to prove it wrong Jim.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 4:47 pm

                • Prove to me the moon is NOT made of cheese?
                  You and your holohuxster buddies can believe what you want.
                  Typical propaganda picture that’s all I can say.
                  Like I said you HoloHuxsters have it all figured out so your good to go with ANYTHING you post.
                  The original picture below has three workers of the company posing in front of it.
                  You know they are not inmates…..look at their boots.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 5:04 pm

                • From what is told the tool is a bone mill. Burden of proof is against you Jim.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 5:10 pm

                • OK smarty pants now show me where it was used…..and I know this is a tough one for HoloHuxsters, show me it being used.
                  There has to be a picture somewhere in the millions they have….LOL
                  I’m sure it’s next to the picture of a homicidal gas chamber…..and Elie Wiesel getting tattooed in the five different camps he said he was in when the camps were liberated. Wait….maybe he was the guy running the bone crushing machine.

                  Holo101…for those that want to get back to reality or should I say HoloHoax reality…..
                  http://vho.org/Intro/GB/Flyer.html

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 5:24 pm

                • The places I know it was used was Chelmno, Belzec, the Łódź Ghetto, and Janowska.

                  These are the places which I can say for sure… I’m not going to bother to dig up photo copy’s of the letters but that is what the bone mill is referred to in documentation.

                  And I never claimed there was millions Jim. Though I have heard reports that it was used in camps the English liberated.

                  There is one displayed in Kiev.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 5:31 pm

                • Oy Vey…..The bone crushing patrol is on its way…..

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 5:41 pm

                • “Oy Vey…..The bone crushing patrol is on its way…..
                  JR”

                  Great Reply Jim! It just shows exactly how well informed you are! Come on! Continue so I can explain more for Tim. I am sure hes loving this information. Also It seems Jeffy is getting a good laugh at yeah. I’m thinking I will stay around just for you.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 7:32 pm

                • clickhead….. I have no problem with you staying around I don’t agree with you but it just shows that most of us can have a discussion here without putting the other person in jail.
                  It’s too bad all Holohucksters out there don’t abide by the same treatment we get here.
                  I’m sure at some point in time all this information that we’ve been writing on the internet, videos excetera will be used against us in a court of law when they will finally get their say on how the HoloHoax is to be treated.
                  They don’t take kindly to any criticism of their cult Holohoax.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 7:38 pm

                • “clickhead….. I have no problem with you staying around I don’t agree with you but it just shows that most of us can have a discussion here without putting the other person in jail.”

                  Remember Jim! your not the only one who could end up in Jail… Holodomor Deniers in the Czech republic can go to jail as well…

                  “It’s too bad all Holohucksters out there don’t abide by the same treatment we get here.”

                  The only person getting abused here is you…. Because you say stupid things. Anyway I think we will be moving to the Chelmno Thread now… Just as a heads up.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 7:48 pm

                • Okay. As long as we’re on free speech,I’ve got the same question I always ask. What is the foundation for holo laws? I don’t know if anyone will have an answer,so I’m just asking people to take a shot in the dark here. Through deductive reasoning I’ve come up with the two most logical answers.im not saying these are the only reasons,it’s just the ones I’ve come up with. My first one is,to hide something. If you don’t want people to find out the truth about something,control how they think. Tell them a certain subject is off limits. Attach harsh punishment to it. You’ll be able to control their thoughts on that one. My second one really ain’t conspiracy type shit. As odd is it may seem,you don’t want them questioning it,because they might hurt someone’s feelings. My answer there is quite simple. Welcome to this toilet earth. Nobodies loved. I’m sure there are other possibilities,but these are the only two I could think of. I’m not saying those are the reasons,it’s just that’s what I came up with. You know me. I’m all ears. I’ll entertain suggestions from either side. Even if someone says there is no clear answer. Confusing as this topic is,i think I’d go along with that one.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 8:26 pm

                • I think that people in America are interested in the Holocaust because there are laws against Holocaust denial. We want to use our right of free speech to talk about the alleged gas chamber. Does anyone think that Germar Rudolf would have devoted any time to studying the alleged gas chambers if there were no laws about Holocaust denial?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 8:37 pm

                • Like I said,free speech. Thats our God given right. Lemmy (he was the front man for the band ,”Motörhead “),passed on this past December . He was a fanatic when it came to nazi memorabilia . He said,” look at the SS. They were the rock stars of their time . He said their uniforms were knock outs. At any rate,he was wearing the Maltese cross. It wasn’t a knock off reproduction. It was the real deal. At any rate,they did a few shows in Germany . Guess what he has around his neck? They came off tour and Lemmy went back to his house in L A. Didn’t take long before the German government was crawling up his ass. He wore that cross everywhere . However no one would accept,he wore that all the time. I guess he passed on before anyone could go putting a case on him. I guess it makes a person appreciate freedom

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 9:05 pm

                • Memory laws started up in the 90’s… It was an idiot response by politicians. Though they did have some denial laws in Germany after the war. This will explain it quite well.

                  Why exactly was it made? Cause people are idiot and preach things past the point of reality. The main reason was cause people were offended by it and hell they decided to talk with their officials. It’s not what Jim would preach, there isn’t a Jewish power trying to push down the ‘outcasts’ (as Zundel would describe it). It it was they were trying to defend the holocaust they wouldn’t have laws as well that prevent Holodomor denial or Armenian Genocide denial. You get what I have said here or no?

                  As for the laws, I personally think they are counter productive… Just as Sir Evens stated during that debate I linked Jim.

                  These laws give people this idea that holocaust denial is forbidden fruit and makes people like Jim even more devoted to their movement. People like Blake are the conservative members of the groups leaching off from people like Jim. It’s exactly like what Shermer wrote in denying history, it’s how a fringe group try’s to enter the mainstream. The longer these laws exist, the longer it’s going to take to finally give Jim that proof he demands, cause every document looses value to him, cause he feels the Jews made it and according to these laws in his mind, the Jews are trying to silence him.

                  Like his YouTube channel being taken down, it’s ‘totally’ not cause he uploaded racist and or offense content. It has to be Jewish interest… He’s like Carto…

                  In 1986 Carto wrote the following in a letter to a white nationalist.

                  “Hitler’s defeat was the defeat of Europe. And of America. How could we have been so blind? The blame, it seems, must be laid at the door of the international Jews. It was their propaganda, lies and demands which blinded the West to what Germany was doing. . . . If Satan himself, with all of his superhuman genius and diabolical ingenuity at his command, had tried to create a permanent disintegration and force for the destruction of the nations, he could have done no better than to invent the Jews.”

                  Just to give one more hint if you don’t get why I’m mentioning this. It’s cause of people like Carto as well that these laws exist. They will preach idiotic things which show a clear agenda and makes it look as if they are antisemitic ( Carto was by the way. He very much hated Jews). Anyway this is the best I can give you Tim I hope it was an interesting read.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 8:53 pm

                • Clickhead….
                  If what the Holocaust deniars say is true don’t we have the right to say it if what Holocaust deniers say is false don’t we have the right to be false. Who are you to tell us what is right or wrong. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me that you Holohucksters are the ones that make the laws for us on what we can say and do. People have a perfect right to be right or wrong in their views in life and they shouldn’t go to jail for them.
                  And in regards to our views towards the Jewish since when do I have the like the Jews they don’t like me so why should I like them. But nothing happens to them for not liking me but if I don’t like them I’m called anti-semetic. Anti-Semitism is not me not liking Jews anti-Semitism is the Jews not liking people like me.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 9:05 pm

                • “If what the Holocaust deniars say is true don’t we have the right to say it if what Holocaust deniers say is false don’t we have the right to be false.”

                  What you say is past comprehension of anyone with a logical though. Even though your are wrong your thoughts should not be squashed, but sadly Jim it’s not my choice of you get to speak. It’s the law. Lucky for you in the US protects your right to free speech.

                  I’m here to tell you exactly what the documents show, I have not cited testimony for what I have used so far, and don’t really need to for Auschwits. I have my sources and I have told you them. I haven’t claimed its my choice that you are right or wrong Jim. I have only stated that you have put a lack of research into the event and have a clear and open Bias. I don’t just go right away and claim your wrong, I explain why you are wrong, and I have even shown you that Mattogno disagrees with you. I give sources, you don’t. And you follow the writing “How to be a revisionist scholar” pretty much spot on.

                  Also haven’t you done the same? You have acted quite ‘superior’ with your ‘vast’ knowledge of cremation. You randomly jumped in between a talk between Blake and I. So don’t start up with this shit.

                  I never said you had to like them. Where in the hell did I say you had to like them? Perhaps you missed my point that your random claim that anyone who disagrees with you has to be a “Jew” in a form of way. Or any document that disagrees with you has to be “Jewish” propaganda.

                  Do you not see the problem with the point above? It’s literally sticking your fingers in your ears so you cannot listen, it’s idiotic. It’s that you label everything I present as automatically Jewish in one form of way or another to the point that it’s quite clear you view them as “the traditional enemy”. Or something which you can treat as a tool so you can dismiss anything against your ideas. I don’t care if your antisemitic… Cause I would understand why someone would call you it.

                  You know why?

                  Your twisted sense of humor, in which you literally dress up like an Orthodox Jew to advertise your website and pretend to be a holocaust survivor. Perhaps you don’t understand Jim, but some people lost family to these camps. While I may not be one of them, I’m sure I understand that the children of survivors look into Auschwits as a symbol of Horror. And most people look into it that way cause they understand what happened there. You cannot even grasp that even with your version of history and you should give at least the slightest respect to these locations, but you do not. You sit in your office chair and look into a camera like all the other retirees that feel their opinion needs to be heard. And yet no matter what version you want to look on at Auschwits was still a hell hole.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 9:38 pm

                • Clickhead
                  Let the people decide….
                  https://archive.org/details/Holocaust_Handbooks

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 9:48 pm

                • Okay Jimbo. If you’re referring to “freedom of speech”,I gotta side with you on that one.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 8:10 pm

                • Anyway, Jim your argument their boots?

                  The names of the people go by the following.

                  Heinrich Chamaides, David Manuschewitz and Moische Korn.

                  Anyway, long story short that’s not evidence. Though Mattongo tries to play it off as a Kugelmühle. The Issue for Mattongo is that a Ball Mill is used for smashing hard objects down with metal balls.

                  A cement mixer wouldn’t make sense, though a ball mill would since documentation does exist for such. Though it being given to Sonderkommando gives the obvious use that its crushing bones.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 5:23 pm

                • Cool gif pic….now show me where it was used and it being used on those nasty bones.
                  This bone crushing whatever it is, means nothing to me…..whats the big deal?
                  What would it prove? You have NO proof where it was used.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 5:31 pm

                • Actually FG made mention of it. The flesh and all that other good shit,will go up on a stiff in no time. The bones are next to impossible to torch up real quick. So FG mentioned something about the bone crushing machine

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 4:55 pm

                • “This fella said 20 to 40 minutes to fire up the body. I guess I read that right. I’m asking because Green Lawn Funeral homes in Springfield,Mo. Said it takes 2 to 2.5 hours to burn a body. They’re using state of the art equipment too.”

                  Tim, modern funeral homes follow strict guidelines for cremation, plus those bodies are clothed and even placed in coffins. There is a separation of bodies so the ashes don’t mix.
                  What the SS did at Auschwitz (and other camps) was incinaration. The bodies were naked with no coffins, speeding up the process. The SS didn’t care if the ashes mixed.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 2:16 pm

                • I understand that. The time frame is throwing me a curve. I’ve seen pics of their ovens that the funeral home uses. I don’t know how the oxygen flow works ,but I’m guessing it has to be the right amount to keep shit between 1400 to 1800 degrees ( I’m going with what the funeral home says on that). I know this is comparing apples and oranges.but I’m trying to get an idea of everything . Length of burn time. How much of the corpse was burned. I thought I read something about they’d dump the ashes in some River . That tells me the body burned completely . Now wether it’s today or 70 some odd years ago,bodies don’t change much . I’ll admit a thin person will take less time to fire up when juxtaposed with two ton tessie. However 20 to 40 minutes ( if I understood that correctly) compared to 2 to 2.5 hours (that’s what the funeral home said) is quite a reach. A rail thin person and a severely overweight person is a reach on my part. I have seen pics where some of the inmates are in better shape than others,so they gonna take a while to burn. This is kind of along the lines here. Was the Doc ever able to totally protect the entire Ovitz family. I ask,because if they cooked any of them,that would be a whole other issue all together. I always thought numbers were pretty safe to mess with. No decoding or shit like that. Not when it comes to this subject. I’ll stick to the other shit. It’s easier to figure out. Maybe sometime in the future someone will bring up the topic of Joachim Peiper. No matter what anyone thinks of him,I admire the hell outta him on one thing. He told the court to leave his men out of everything. You wanna hang someone,hang me. We had a CO one time that would drop everything on us,to save his own ass. That’s why I was surprised the first time I heard about Peiper. In my opinion,he was a stand up man in that respect. All in all,he wasn’t doing anything the rest of us weren’t doing then.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:44 pm

          • According to Irving 20 to 30 kg is enough to burn a body, but depending on the oven, the best estimate I can give is 60. This is dependent on if it’s a single body muffle.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 25, 2016 @ 3:10 pm

            • Thank you

              Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:55 pm

              • “Thank you”

                No problem

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:02 am

    • “As well the cremation time hasn’t exactly changed, as well according to Hdot.org the time the corpses were inside the ash collector was 5 minutes, no an extra twenty.”

      I think you might have confused things. The Topf Manual (that you linked to) has it being 20 minutes for post-combustion:
      https://web.archive.org/web/20040320083013/http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/topf-manual.shtml

      All of your sources say this as well. You’ve confused something.

      Here is what your sources are saying:
      1. Corpse is loaded into muffle
      2. After about 20 minutes or so the burnt corpse falls through the grid it was sitting on and into the ash channel
      3. The cremator then scrapes that into the ash removal door – “ash collector” as you call it. And then loads another corpse on to the grid.
      4. When the second corpse drops (in about 20 minutes or so), remove the first ash from the “ash collector in the front”, scrape up the second corpse into the ash removal door and return to step 1.

      Bob has replied to my Rodoh post. Apparently the oven could only take about 212 kg coke at a time (about 3.5 loads as listed on that sheet, a wheelbarrow load = 60 kg). So entries such as the first on 11/7/41 “11:15 – 11” cannot be the number of loads in the oven that only holds 3.5 (not 11). So my figuring was correct before. Those coke loads are just repositories. I’m inclined to still agree with the general times I’ve agreed to for now though. The times on the left have to be at least somewhat “generally” related to the corpse number – in some fashion or other. I mean the coke loads are for the cremations, right? The HAVE to be correlated in SOME way.

      Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 5:19 pm

      • All nonsense…….keep dreaming.

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 5:27 pm

        • That’s the Topf Manual for crying out loud, Jim! What the hell are you talking about? Do you not believe the Topf Manual?
          https://web.archive.org/web/20040320083013/http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/topf-manual.shtml

          Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 5:40 pm

          • He’s an idiot, the manual doesn’t mean a thing to him. As well Mattognos estimate is nothing new, McVay was saying it in the 90’s. 20 min in the muffle twenty in the ash collector.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 5:51 pm

            • Actually, the Mattogno article I am referencing is from 1994. I’m not talking about “new” things here, just fyi.

              Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 6:42 pm

              • How about talking to people that are in the business.
                http://www.cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html

                They seem to agree with us Holocaust deniers. One to three hrs to cremate one body.

                JR

                Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 6:54 pm

                • “How about talking to people that are in the business.
                  http://www.cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html

                  They seem to agree with us Holocaust deniers. One to three hrs to cremate one body.”

                  Jim, you are comparing apples to oranges.

                  The Nazis didn’t care about mixing ashes or bodies.
                  They weren’t cremating coffins or clothed bodies. The Nazis were incinerating naked bodies, shoving them one after another.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 7:00 pm

                • There is no difference in cremation times with a coffin or without you’ve been shown to be wrong you just don’t want to admit it. Even Ivan legace a funeral director in Canada admitted that you cannot cremate a body in less than an hour but I guess him being an expert in the field doesn’t count.
                  You have to keep your HoloHoax story going so you have to make the figures work however you can do that.
                  So who you going to believe an expert funeral director who does cremations or Holohucksters who have to make that 6 million figure work however they can do it. Sure we can stuff 5 people and one crematoria yeah that will do it.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 7:30 pm

                • Jim a coffin is a huge difference, you haven’t even explained why, but your calling his argument bunk?

                  ” 3. Hello, I’m a Cremation Expert — Claim that the 52 Auschwitz furnaces could not have had the capacity to burn 4,756 corpses per day because modern commercial crematoriums don’t have such a capacity. When its pointed out to you that there’s no comparison between ordinary commercial crematoriums and those built in the camps, for a variety of reasons — e.g. coffins were not used, one can cremate more than one corpse in a single retort, etc. — ignore this and repeat the claim.”

                  Your going outside your borders Jim…

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 25, 2016 @ 5:31 am

                • More nonsense…. I hope you realize that the crematories had to be rebuilt after 3000 Cremations so the revisionist figures are right on with that figure which is approximately 150,000 Cremations were done in those crematories. Why don’t you look that up.
                  With my information none of those crematories were rebuilt and we’re in pretty sad shape at the end of the war.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 5:58 am

                • Because both Blake, Mattogno, Click, and I know your being irrational. It’s like the people who try to argue the incineration grills at Treblinka wouldn’t work. As well the Topf documents tell us otherwise, it’s idiot to not work off primary resources.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 25, 2016 @ 1:34 pm

              • Interesting, though as said its nothing new. Doesn’t exactly matter, as for Carlos essay, Im not sure if it came before McVays post on Alt. Revisionism on the subject, though I would have to ask Anon.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 7:36 pm

              • Mind their estimates from John Zimmerman, whom is what you would call “my source” and he clearly states 25 min.

                “Deniers reject the Bauleitung figures outright. Denier critics have not totally accepted these numbers. However, the Gusen data suggests that the Bauleitung figures may have been more credible than previously suspected. The Bauleitung’s 340 figure for 24 hours for the six ovens of Krema I comes out to about 25 minutes per body burned, the same result achieved at Gusen on November 7, 1941.”

                I don’t recommend using the Gusen one for an estimated as it doesn’t provide an accurate calculation.

                As given from the newsgroup at alt.revisionism and also linked a few times by McVay in the early days before he would pretty much copy paste arguments they had the following.

                http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/cremation-009.html

                It states the exact same as Mattogno but I’m not sure if it came out before Mattognos writings, as some records from the news group on Nizkor could be from before McVay even started there.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 8:11 pm

          • Cremation truth…

            According to a November 27, 1986, repo­rt of the New Delhi Schenectady Gazette­, cremations and the consumption of wood­ involved therein (due to the lack of c­orpses that will burn by themselves) are­ a serious concern for the inhabitants of India, since entire forests have been­ cut down over time for just this purpo­se. According to this report, the daily ­ incineration of 21,000 bodies requires ­6,433 metric tons of wood, i.e., 675 lb­s. per body. In applying these condition­s to Treblinka, we shall simplify the m­atter somewhat by ignoring the problems ­involved in the prior exhumation of the­ bodies; let it suffice to consider only­ one unreality, namely the incineration­ of the bodies. To forestall objections­ of any kind, we shall reduce the consum­ption of wood for mass cremations from ­675 lbs. to 440 lbs. per body.110 From v­arious eyewitness accounts it follows t­hat the cremation process lasted until ­early August, a total of about 185 days.­ This means that a minimum of 4,700 bod­ies had to be cremated every day, requir­ing 950 metric tons of dry wood daily. ­The engineering handbook Hütte indicates­ a volume of 74.15 cu.ft. per metric to­n for spruce wood,111 and of 109.5 cu.ft­. per metric ton for spruce wood fire l­ogs.112 This means that the volume of t­he wood needed in Treblinka daily for in­cinerating the corpses would have been ­about 104,000 cu.ft. This volume is perh­aps easier to grasp when visualized as ­a stack 3 ft. high, 3 ft. wide and about­ 1.75 miles long. Every day! The cremat­ion gratings, described by Warszawski as­ measuring 13 ft. × 33 ft. and with 1.5­ ft. elevation above the ground, had a ­spatial volume of approximately 650 cu.f­t. underneath the grating. To ensure th­at the firewood would receive enough dra­ft (oxygen), a maximum of 530 cu.ft. co­uld have been placed underneath. This qu­antity corresponds to a net weight of 1­0,600 lbs. and would have sufficed for ­cremating 24 (twenty-four!) bodies. If o­ne assumes that, in this case, the comp­lete incineration of the bodies took onl­y 2 hours (which, however, is far too s­hort to be realistic), then even cremati­ng ‘round-the-clock’ would have dispose­d of 288 bodies at most.

            The high piling-up of bodies on the gr­ating, as it is described by witnesses,­ would have brought nothing but disadvan­tages, if only due to the inhibited acc­ess granted the flames. But if 4,700 bod­ies had to be burned every day, this wo­uld have required more than 16 gratings ­as described above, with a total surfac­e area of 6,890 sq.ft. Stoking the crem­ation sites with wood, and removing the ­ashes and skeletons, are elements which­ have been ignored to date. Given the he­at of the fire under the gratings and t­he stench of the burning bodies, it woul­d have been impossible to perform these­ necessary tasks while the fire was bur­ning. It is thus safe to say that contin­uous cremation in the manner described,­ and using the burning sites described b­y the witnesses, would not have been po­ssible. Burning the 4,700 bodies would h­ave required at least twice the number ­of gratings. With reference to the numbe­r of bodies to be incinerated, we still­ need to examine the source, processing­ and transportation of the needed quanti­ties of firewood. The total cremation p­rocess in Treblinka would have required ­430 million pounds, or 195,000 metric t­ons, of air-dried (seasoned) wood. Due t­o the short notice and brief time that ­Himmler allegedly allotted for this pro­cess, such a large quantity of air-dried­ wood would certainly have been impossi­ble to get, which is why only fresh (“gr­een”) wood of lower calorific value wou­ld have been available. The calorific va­lue of seasoned wood is 3,600 kcal/kg, ­whereas that of green wood is only 2,000­ kcal/kg.113 Therefore the total requir­ed quantity of wood would have increase­d to 351,000 metric tons, and the daily ­requirement of green wood was thus appr­oximately 1,900 metric tons.

            Assuming medium-sized trees of 1 cord ­volume and 1,500 lbs., the total number ­of trees needed comes to roughly 515,00­0. There were two options for obtaining­ the required quantity of wood: either t­here was a large forested area near the­ camp where the demand for firewood coul­d be met, and whence the wood would the­n be transported to the camp with suitab­le vehicles, or the wood had to be brou­ght in from other areas by rail. Let us­ suppose for the moment that the wood su­pply was nearby. Assuming that a 15-ton­ truck can make 3 runs daily, allowing f­or loading and unloading of the truck, ­then 126 trips would need to be made dai­ly, using some 42 trucks. None of the e­yewitness statements indicate the prese­nce of such a fleet of trucks. The same ­goes for the labor force required for t­he daily felling, limbing, sawing and sp­litting as well as loading and unloadin­g of 2,800 trees. If, given the primitiv­e conditions that prevailed, we assume ­that two man could have processed – tha­t is, felled, limbed, sawed and split – ­one tree per day (an utter illusion), t­hen the lumberjacks would clearly have h­ad to number at least 5,600. To give an­ idea of how large a forest would need t­o be in order to supply such vast quant­ities of wood, let us assume a yield of ­ 325 cord per acre, which for 515,000 tr­ees would require a forest of 1,590 acr­es, or just short of 2.5 square miles. T­o put it more graphically, such a fores­t would have been 2.5 miles long and 1 m­ile wide. Is it really conceivable that­ the witnesses and the local residents ­could have failed to notice such a large­ deforested area? The site would still ­be apparent today. If one proceeds inste­ad on the assumption that the quantity ­of wood needed would not have been avai­lable locally, then it would have had to­ be brought in from elsewhere, for exam­ple in the form of large fire logs, in r­ail wagons. If one performs the corresp­onding calculations for this scenario, t­hen a freight train of 63 cars of 30 me­tric tons each would have had to be unl­oaded in the camp every day – a total of­ 185 freight trains. In the end the tot­al length of the trains would have reach­ed 116 km, or 72 miles. This begs the q­uestion: where are the pertinent Reichsb­ahn (German Railway) documents about th­ese enormous wood transports? The autho­rities and offices in question would har­dly have dispensed with payment and not­ submitted their accounts. Regarding the­ claim that the 875,000 corpses were el­iminated completely with out any trace, ­we must consider the quantities of ashe­s that remain. The quantities of wood a­shes are considerable, and vary with the­ type of wood. We shall postulate the l­ow value of 6.6 lbs. per ton of dry wood­.112 The wood ashes remaining would the­n have weighed approximately 1,000 metri­c tons; the equivalent of the payload o­f 100 10-ton trucks. The ash content of ­a human body makes up about 5.6% of the­ body’s weight;114 given a 132 lb. body­, this comes to 7.3 lbs. The ashes from ­the 875,000 burned bodies would thus ha­ve weighed 6,387,500 lbs. The total quan­tity of ashes – wood ashes plus human a­shes – would therefore have weighed almo­st 4,000 metric tons, or 8.6 million po­unds, all of which (according to the wi­tnesses) were then mixed with the soil a­nd thrown back into the pits.115 Even i­f this quantity of ash had been mixed wi­th the roughly 3.53 million cubic feet ­of soil excavated from the burial pits, ­it would be easy to find evidence for h­uman remains of the quantity alleged by ­ the witnesses.

            It must also be noted that in the incin­eration of corpses under the conditions­ specified by the witnesses, the bones ­would not have turned to ash, but would ­have remained as bones. The witnesses h­ave described how the skeletal remains o­f the corpses were broken up, and scree­ned and sifted over and over again to en­sure that no evidence would remain. Giv­en the primitive equipment described by ­the witnesses – wooden rollers and thin­ sheets of metal for crushing the bones­ – it might have been possible for a man­ to break up and sift two skeletons per­ hour in the manner specified. Thus, if ­one Jewish laborer had pulverized 20 sk­eletons per day, 240 Jewish laborers wou­ld have been needed for this task alone­. Adding up the required personnel – 5,6­00 Jewish laborers for obtaining the wo­od, 240 for pulverizing the bones, and ­150 to stoke the fire sites – fully 6,00­0 Jewish workers were needed to complet­e all the required tasks in a solid seve­n-day work week. Additionally, further ­hundreds of Jewish workers would have be­en needed to carry out various other ta­sks reported by witnesses: excavating an­d filling trenches, camouflage activiti­es, sorting the valuables of the murder­ed Jews, cutting the hair and extracting­ the gold teeth of the victims, renderi­ng services to the SS, administration, r­ations and supplies for the camp, etc. ­There would also have to have been reser­ve labor standing by at all times. Thus­ the camp would have had to have a perm­anent workforce of at least 8,000. This ­number stands in glaring contrast to th­e mere 700 Jewish laborers attested to f­or Treblinka.116 And finally, we must n­ote that the teeth of the supposed victi­ms could not have been destroyed by the­ primitive methods attested to.117 Even ­if each of the alleged victims had only­ 20 of the usual 32 teeth left at the t­ime he or she died, there would have bee­n at least 17.5 million teeth to be dis­posed of at Treblinka. This means that w­e should still be able to find some 5 t­eeth per cubic foot of the 3.53 million ­cu.ft. of material excavated at the all­eged site of the crime. All these calcu­lations are based on the number of victi­ms (875,000) specified by the Jerusalem­ court. If, on the other hand, one were ­to postulate the 3 million Treblinka vi­ctims alleged by Grossmann and others, t­hen the data ascertained in the previou­s must be multiplied by a factor of 3.5,­ meaning: 6,650 metric tons of wood dai­ly to cremate the corpses; a total of a­pproximately 1,200,000 tons of firewood,­ i.e., almost two million trees, for wh­ose transport trains totaling about 252 ­miles would have been required. The are­a of the forest thus required amounts to­ 9 square miles. There would have been ­roughly 13,700 tons of ashes to hide, c­ontaining at least 60 million teeth. And­ where on earth were the 20,000 Jewish ­laborers needed to do all the work invol­ved?

            Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 5:52 pm

        • BTW Jim, Mattogno has that particular oven’s cremation rate as 40 minutes per average sized corpse and the 20 minute post-combustion. And Topf’s procedure is Topf’s procedure – there is no getting around that. What are you on about? This is a 20 minute difference (40 minute Mattogno vs 20 minute Holocaustian) discrepancy we’re talking about here.

          Read Mattogno’s article for crying out loud, Jim! Just pshawing things based on your ignorance of them doesn’t really help your cause.
          http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

          Do you have some hours-long cremation times rolling around in the back of your head or something, Jim? Read Mattogno.

          Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 5:47 pm

          • Alright, Jim has literally hit borderline psychotic. He’s pushing things that most moderate revisionists posts. Hell he has even been told he was wrong by Blake, who links him a source which he completely relies on to debunk Pressac. This is a good show that Jim is a Joke who’s not even willing to expand his bounds. Just like is idiotic claim against teeth.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 8:18 pm

          • By the way Blake, you should lay down on the claim a bit, even with your 40 minutes claim they would quite easily be able to burn 3 bodies per hour, not just two. Also remember what I have said, the number depends on who you ask. Nizkor states 40 Zimmerman states 25. I don’t exactly care, both are able to pull off the cremation rate that is demanded via the Topf estimates as the time in the ash collector doesn’t prevent ash mixing. If it’s 40 min per body and since we do know it was a dual body burner it’s not very much of an issues to claim 4 bodies an hour.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 8:24 pm

            • Now an expert speaks about cremations

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 8:30 pm

              • We’re not going to listen to your idiotic preaching, it’s quite obvious that you have an agenda. Save yourself for the last few years of your life and stop posting. Your websites are idiotic, and the only one here who’s willing to put a full defense to you is FG. The major argument that she can make is you have interviewed ‘revisionist’ ‘scholars’. Meany of them don’t even care to write real history and the sensor their own website for their own needs. Like Bradley Smith. Codoh is a largely monitored site with no room for any opposing views. All the revisionist with a sense of reality post at Rodoh. They all probably think your an idiot, and it seems that Rabbit, one of their most informed members thinks your an idiot.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 8:36 pm

                • Mat 7-6
                  “Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.
                  Enough said…

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 8:56 pm

                • Your bibles isn’t evidence of anything Jim, and I’m not here for a spiritual teaching. Zimmerman has shown the cremation time to be accurate, and Mattognos figures more or less back him up. That is running of from Blakes “let’s forget the extra 20 minutes” portion. Regardless of what you wish to cram, in your head fact is still fact and the twenty minute muffle time is universally accepted by both informed anti-revisionist and revisionist.

                  Enough said.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 9:11 pm

        • Jim your a fucking Idiot as always.

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 5:49 pm

      • Didn’t I mention that inside my post above? The time in the ash collector doesn’t mean that 4 or so bodies cannot be cremated within the period of an hour. McVay from Nizkor said the same thing, I also mentioned from Hdot that it said 20 min cremation per body + 5 min in the ash collector. It’s not myself being confused at all, it’s just a point out.

        It is not inaccurate from what I have said, and Hdot clearly says 25 min per body.

        “The Topf instructions for their double muffle furnaces envisaged that a body would be added in the oven during the last twenty minutes before the last one was fully cremated. “As soon as the remains of the bodies have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further twenty minutes to be fully consumed . . . In the meantime, further bodies can be introduced one after the other into the chambers.”11
        *According to Topf’s calculations this would result in a 25 minute burning cycle for each body.*”

        Trust me I’m aware it’s 40 min, but again read the portion you quote.

        Regardless the time in the ash collector that still doesn’t change the time in which the bodies are inside the muffle, due to the mixing of ash.

        Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 5:44 pm

      • Blake the document clearly states that it “Can be left” not that it has to be left for twenty minutes. It mentions nothing at all about the post-combustion phase having to be followed. In times they may have followed it, but it certainly gives Zimmerman more credit then before.

        Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 9:23 pm

        • Exposing the HoloHoax
          http://nodisinfo.com/holocaust-against-jews-is-a-total-lie-proof/

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 9:37 pm

          • Jim… I thought you said that you were not going to talk with me, your basically feeding me by doing this.

            Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 9:58 pm

            • You’ve been a good boy/girl transgender whatever so I’m cutting you some slack.
              Giving you just enough rope to hang yourself.
              Everyone deserves a chance don’t you think.

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 10:26 pm

              • Jim, I’m not gay or Trans… I’m clearly saying you have no room to say that Gays are evil.

                And I think this just proves clicks point that you have no humanity what so ever, it makes FG look bad as well for trying to defend you.

                Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 10:30 pm

                • Nobody has to defend me I stand on my own, my views are based on the Bible and what God has to say it’s not me talking don’t shoot the messenger.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 5:49 am

                • That’s very far from the truth.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 25, 2016 @ 9:37 am

                • I’m sure FG is not worried about me and my inner thoughts…..

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 11:02 am

                • No, but your future wife might…

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 25, 2016 @ 1:36 pm

  2. “Its quite easy to see why people imagined that gas vans were being used to exterminate people. I was sitting in my garden one afternoon drinking a lot of Budweiser beer – and probably had a few too many! But then the kids came running in through the gate yelling “the van’s here – the van’s here”. Well, in my inebriated state, I immediately thought that a bunch of local Nazis were sending a gas van round to collect me! So without more ado, I ran off down the road trying to escape my ultimate destiny. Eventually, the kids caught up with me, and said. No Dad – its an ice cream van, not a gas van; could we have some money to by a cornetto?”

    Oh, OK. I now understand what led to your conversion to the denial cult.

    Alcohol.

    You’re a Brit, Talbot. Is Budweiser the best you could do?

    “I’ve no doubt something like that was happening in eastern Europe. Wartime rumours, combined with people drinking far too much Russian and Polish vodka began imagining that quite ordinary trucks, buses and vans – which had these producer-gas boilers fitted on to them due to wartime fuel shortages – were sinister gas vans where dozens of innocent victims were being driven to mass graves in the local forests.”

    We have multiple sources regarding gas vans, Talbot:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150328052811/http://www.holocaust-history.org/19411025-wetzel-no365/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141113170814/http://www.holocaust-history.org/19420326-rauff-sonderwagen/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141113170901/http://www.holocaust-history.org/19420411-turner-wolff/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150325081826/http://holocaust-history.org/19420605-rauff-spezialwagen/

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/gas-vans-in-ussr-some-testimonies.html?m=1

    I’m afraid you’ll have to refute all of the above. You’ll need to prove:

    The documents were forged or altered.
    The witnesses were tortured or pressured.

    Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 8:31 am

    • I chose Budweiser, because this brand of beer would have resonance with the American and International readership of this website. But rest assured, these gas vans are a figment of people’s wild imaginations, which have been harnessed by the Polish and Soviet intelligence units who were investigating alleged war crimes against the Germans immediately after the war.

      I note that you have presented websites galore for my perusal – but I sincerely hope these are credible sources, because your track record so far in producing sensible, well-grounded, and conclusive proof, is, quite frankly, just a little bit above “piss-poor”.

      But I will page up these websites and read them carefully. I’m not expecting very mucho-o – but there is always hope.

      Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 9:46 am

      • You wrote: “these gas vans are a figment of people’s wild imaginations, which have been harnessed by the Polish and Soviet intelligence units who were investigating alleged war crimes against the Germans immediately after the war.”

        I wrote about the alleged gas vans on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Chelmno/history.html

        Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 10:03 am

      • “I chose Budweiser, because this brand of beer would have resonance with the American and International readership of this website.”

        You don’t have to lower your standards for us, Talbot. I myself only drank Budweiser if there was nothing else available.
        Myself, I preferred Guinness, Bass Ale, Samuel Adams and Foster’s.
        I actually don’t really drink anymore.

        “But rest assured, these gas vans are a figment of people’s wild imaginations, which have been harnessed by the Polish and Soviet intelligence units who were investigating alleged war crimes against the Germans immediately after the war.”

        No, they are not. You’ll have to prove otherwise.

        “I note that you have presented websites galore for my perusal – but I sincerely hope these are credible sources, because your track record so far in producing sensible, well-grounded, and conclusive proof, is, quite frankly, just a little bit above “piss-poor”.”

        Yet you can’t refute them. You also don’t have any evidence of your own.
        Prove it.

        “But I will page up these websites and read them carefully. I’m not expecting very mucho-o – but there is always hope.”

        Prove your denier theories, Talbot. You help yourself that way.
        Frankly, I haven’t seen any evidence from any denier that passes the stink test.

        Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 10:26 am

        • Ah, good for you Jeff, a man of good taste when it come to “real” beers. A couple of glasses of Guinness or a Bass ale never harmed anyone in this world.

          Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 10:38 am

          • Combine Guiness and Bass you get a “black and tan.”

            Aaahhh, youth.

            Now if I tried something like that you’d have to pour me into a car.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 10:56 am

            • Franziskaner. I forget which one. Pour half of it into your glass. At the bottom is a small amount of yeast. Swirl the bottle around till the yeast is mixed with the remaining beer. Take that and pour it in your glass. Pour it around the putter edge of the beer in your glass. That’s a beer there. Careful. The shit has a monster bite

              Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 7:40 am

        • You don’t drink anymore. I can’t drink anymore ( I’m sure you can do the math on that) and talbot drinks Bud. Both y’all should expand your horizons. When I was still drinking,it was Spaten and Franziskaner ( I don’t know if that’s spelled right) . Both are brewed in Munich . They make all other beer look like mule piss. If you wanna take a walk on the wild side,go with Red Stripe. Considering the Jamaicans make it,shits pretty good. If y’all still feel like slumming,try Mickeys. Hey. All the drunk ass Irishmen in Boston,on St. Pats give their seal of approval. If you wanna take shots with your brew,Bombay. Great combo. Oh yeah. For future reference,stay away from Jap whiskey. They need to just stick to Sake

          Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 10:44 am

          • “You don’t drink anymore. I can’t drink anymore ( I’m sure you can do the math on that) and talbot drinks Bud. Both y’all should expand your horizons. When I was still drinking,it was Spaten and Franziskaner ( I don’t know if that’s spelled right) . Both are brewed in Munich . They make all other beer look like mule piss. If you wanna take a walk on the wild side,go with Red Stripe. Considering the Jamaicans make it,shits pretty good. If y’all still feel like slumming,try Mickeys. Hey. All the drunk ass Irishmen in Boston,on St. Pats give their seal of approval. If you wanna take shots with your brew,Bombay. Great combo. Oh yeah. For future reference,stay away from Jap whiskey. They need to just stick to Sake.”

            Red Stripe is good. I once tried a beer called “Black Mamba,” brewed in Africa. It was so good I drank 5 more.
            Luckily I wasn’t driving because I don’t remember what happened after that.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 10:54 am

      • The first website shows a letter sent by a Dr. Wetzel to the “Reich Commissar for the East”.

        Oh dear, the Soviet goon who fabricated this document was so dim that he typed in the word “commissar” by mistake on the captured German typewriter. It was the Soviets who had commissars – it is very unlikely that a German official would hold this title.

        Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 10:29 am

        • “The first website shows a letter sent by a Dr. Wetzel to the “Reich Commissar for the East”.

          Oh dear, the Soviet goon who fabricated this document was so dim that he typed in the word “commissar” by mistake on the captured German typewriter. It was the Soviets who had commissars – it is very unlikely that a German official would hold this title.”

          Nice try.

          The literal translation for the German words “1. An den Reichskommissar für den Ostland” is At the Reich Commissioner for the Ostland.”

          I’ve seen “Reich Commisioner” attached to other documents.

          Cut the crap, Talbot. I’m not some gullible denier goofball. Nitpicking words doesn’t do crap for me.

          Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 10:50 am

          • Oh, Mr K – that is unworthy of you. The document clearly says the title “commissar”. No, its time you “cut the crap”, and apologise to us for producing either a completely forged document or a badly mis-translated one. If you don’t mind me saying so – you holocaust proponents are a shabby bunch of individuals who are quite prepared to submit dodgy documents, and then when people point this out, you become indignant, hysterical and shrill.

            Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 11:12 am

            • “Oh, Mr K – that is unworthy of you. The document clearly says the title “commissar”. No, its time you “cut the crap”, and apologise to us for producing either a completely forged document or a badly mis-translated one.”

              Yeah, I don’t think so:

              http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/pflip.php?caseid=HLSL_NMT01&docnum=2121&numpages=2&startpage=1&title=Entwurf%5B.%5D+.+.+.+Betr.:+Loesung+der+Judenfrage..&color_setting=C

              http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/deu/ghi_es_stabilization_ger.pdf

              Both of these documents use the word “Reichskommisar.

              Sorry. You are wrong.

              “you don’t mind me saying so – you holocaust proponents are a shabby bunch of individuals who are quite prepared to submit dodgy documents, and then when people point this out, you become indignant, hysterical and shrill.”

              Nothing dodgy about them. All you have is a word, Talbot. That’s all. It was a title used in the Third Reich. I’ve given you two examples, one which doesn’t even pertain to Hitler’s Germany.
              Sorry, you just lost.

              Try harder.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 12:05 pm

        • The “note” ( not even a letter this time! ) produced in your second website is also suspect. There is no named recipient – it just says that the note is addressed to the “Criminal Technical Institute, Reich Criminal Police Office”.

          The “Criminal Technical Institute” – one has to ask whether such a body even existed in the Third Reich? Where were its offices, Jeff, and who headed this department ?

          There is a named individual called Major Pradel who worked in “section II D 3 a”, and this note was sent to him for information purposes only – he was not the primary recipient. But who was Major Pradel? Is there any corroboration from any other source that he even existed?

          The note is signed simply “Rauf”, which is odd – most official correspondence would include the rank and title of the sender.

          Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 11:00 am

          • The third website produces an alleged letter sent between “SS Major General Dr. Harald Turner, Privy Councillor, and Chief of the German Administration in Serbia – and Karl Wolff, Chief of Himmler’s Personal Staff.

            Now I would invite readers to repeat to themselves the names and their official titles, and I think we can all agree that these are very senior men in the Third Reich hierarchy. So, if this be the case, is it at all likely that they would communicate to each other in an official letter using the following phraseology; – “Already some months ago, I shot dead all the Jews I could get my hands on in this area, concentrated all the Jewish women and children in a camp and with the help of the SD got my hands on a “delousing van,” that in about 14 days to 4 weeks will have brought about the definitive clearing out of the camp…”

            No – I suggest not! This is the kind of low-level language that a couple of hoodlums would use to one-another in a downtown “speak-easy”!

            In other words, this document is a forgery.

            Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 11:45 am

            • The fourth website that Jeff produced, is one that he has submitted before. It is alleged to be a communication sent from a mysterious character named Willy Just to a mere code number ( II D 3 a (9) NI. 214/42 GRS). This apparently is located in Berlin, and is dated 5 June 1942. Note well; that this is the only copy, and it is stamped “Top Secret”.

              But if this is the only copy, then one has to ask why a second copy is being sent on to SS-Obersturmbanfuhrer Walter Rauff for examination and decision.

              So to sum up – we have a top secret document that is sent from a dubious somebody-or-other to a code number, of which only one copy was ever produced, and a yet a second copy is then sent on to somebody else!

              Are you kidding us, Mr K, with your phony evidence?

              But I am now going to have a break and prepare my evening meal. I shall be reading what our zany friends at the “Holocaust Controversies BlogSpot” have to say for themselves afterwards.

              Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 12:19 pm

              • “The fourth website that Jeff produced, is one that he has submitted before. It is alleged to be a communication sent from a mysterious character named Willy Just to a mere code number ( II D 3 a (9) NI. 214/42 GRS). This apparently is located in Berlin, and is dated 5 June 1942. Note well; that this is the only copy, and it is stamped “Top Secret”.

                I’ve addressed the II D 3.

                “But if this is the only copy, then one has to ask why a second copy is being sent on to SS-Obersturmbanfuhrer Walter Rauff for examination and decision.”

                Walter Rauf was involved in the gas van project.

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Rauff
                Naturally he would be included in this.

                “So to sum up – we have a top secret document that is sent from a dubious somebody-or-other to a code number, of which only one copy was ever produced, and a yet a second copy is then sent on to somebody else!”

                Yeah I just explained this earlier.
                Still have nothing on your end.

                “Are you kidding us, Mr K, with your phony evidence?”

                That’s funny, coming from you.
                So, to sum up:
                You still have no case that any of this information is forged. The only person I can’t account for is Willy Just.

                “But I am now going to have a break and prepare my evening meal.”

                Enjoy your meal. Hopefully it will give you inspiration to actually prove these documents as forgeries.

                Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 1:24 pm

            • “The third website produces an alleged letter sent between “SS Major General Dr. Harald Turner, Privy Councillor, and Chief of the German Administration in Serbia – and Karl Wolff, Chief of Himmler’s Personal Staff.

              Now I would invite readers to repeat to themselves the names and their official titles, and I think we can all agree that these are very senior men in the Third Reich hierarchy. So, if this be the case, is it at all likely that they would communicate to each other in an official letter using the following phraseology; – “Already some months ago, I shot dead all the Jews I could get my hands on in this area, concentrated all the Jewish women and children in a camp and with the help of the SD got my hands on a “delousing van,” that in about 14 days to 4 weeks will have brought about the definitive clearing out of the camp…”

              No – I suggest not! This is the kind of low-level language that a couple of hoodlums would use to one-another in a downtown “speak-easy”!”

              “Suggest” is an interesting word.
              In other words you don’t know.
              You don’t know how these men would speak to one another. Or write to one another.

              “In other words, this document is a forgery.”

              Prove it.
              Not with a suggestion, real evidence.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 1:17 pm

              • The whole Holocaust is a forgery so how do I prove something is a forgery I don’t you have to prove it’s true.

                JR

                Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 3:12 pm

                • “The whole Holocaust is a forgery so how do I prove something is a forgery I don’t you have to prove it’s true.”

                  I have multiple documents regarding gas vans, Jim.

                  You can maybe forge one or two…….maybe.

                  To prove forgery you have to show me.

                  Sorry. Talbot’s already lost this argument.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 3:26 pm

          • How’s your German?

            https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriminaltechnisches_Institut_der_Sicherheitspolizei

            I’m kidding.

            Here’s an organizational chart showing where this department was.

            http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/rsha-bio-heydrich-tline.htm

            Basically I was as I can determine it operated by providing technical support, like a crime lab today.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 12:29 pm

          • “There is a named individual called Major Pradel who worked in “section II D 3 a”, and this note was sent to him for information purposes only – he was not the primary recipient. But who was Major Pradel? Is there any corroboration from any other source that he even existed?”

            Oh, goodness.

            Yes, I’d say he existed:

            Polizeikommissar and Major in Schutzpolizei. Director of motor vehicles dept of Sicherheitspolizei at RSHA (II D 3a). Head of the Transport department II.D3a of the RSHA. Together with Rauff he designed the gassing van and experimented with engine exhausts.
            After the war a police officer in Hannover where he was arrested in January 1961. In 1966 sentenced to 7 years imprisonment by Hanover Landesgericht.

            The note is signed simply “Rauf”, which is odd – most official correspondence would include the rank and title of the sender.”

            Rauf is this man:
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Rauff

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 1:07 pm

            • The final website that Jeff produced is the “Holocaust Controversies BlogSpot”. But here, we are up against the problem of whether we can believe these testimonies or not. The alleged perpetrators were held in Soviet custody when they made these statements. Can we be assured that these were given voluntarily, and without coercion? I think not – the Germans were loathed by the Soviet communist, intelligence and military authorities immediately after the war, and would have done whatever was necessary to beat, threaten and torture their captives in order to get them to sign sworn statements that were not even composed by them but were probably written by teams of NKVD officers. We simply don’t know the duress that these Germans prisoners were under – and it is not just the physical torture that they underwent, but all kinds of psychological pressures and torments as well.

              What is also noteworthy, is that these admissions to horrendous crimes were never subjected to scrutiny or cross-examination in any kind of trial or tribunal. This is really the major shortfall with these testimonies. Should we really accept all this stuff today – over 70 years later? Is it not material that shouldn’t be banded about in the public domain as definitive proof, but rather consigned to a closed archive in a library, until a thorough investigation has taken place and corroborating evidence produced?

              Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 1:59 pm

              • “The final website that Jeff produced is the “Holocaust Controversies BlogSpot”. But here, we are up against the problem of whether we can believe these testimonies or not. The alleged perpetrators were held in Soviet custody when they made these statements. Can we be assured that these were given voluntarily, and without coercion? I think not – the Germans were loathed by the Soviet communist, intelligence and military authorities immediately after the war, and would have done whatever was necessary to beat, threaten and torture their captives in order to get them to sign sworn statements that were not even composed by them but were probably written by teams of NKVD officers. We simply don’t know the duress that these Germans prisoners were under – and it is not just the physical torture that they underwent, but all kinds of psychological pressures and torments as well.”

                I believe I told you to prove torture.

                You can’t, can you? You can do more of your infamous Talbot guesswork but you can’t prove it.

                “What is also noteworthy, is that these admissions to horrendous crimes were never subjected to scrutiny or cross-examination in any kind of trial or tribunal.”

                This is really the major shortfall with these testimonies. Should we really accept all this stuff today – over 70 years later? Is it not material that shouldn’t be banded about in the public domain as definitive proof, but rather consigned to a closed archive in a library, until a thorough investigation has taken place and corroborating evidence produced?

                Here’s some more documents you can chew on:

                http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2015/10/contemporary-german-documents-on.html?m=1#_doc2

                One of them mentions the delivery of gas vans to Smolensk, another to Belarus.
                So, not only do we have testimony but we have documented proof these vans were used in the USSR.

                Unless, of course, you can prove the documents are forgeries.

                Keep in mind, I want proof, not speculation.

                Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

                • I can throw all these sort of questions back at you. Where’s your proof that these German captives were not mistreated into falsely admitting to all these horrendous crimes? You produce no evidence whatsoever as to the conditions they were held in, nor the intensity of the interrogations that they underwent. So would kindly produce your documentation showing us this vital information. In other words – can we have some proof please?

                  Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 3:36 pm

                • Looking for proof….LOL I still waiting for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber that you HoloHuxsters have been talking about….
                  Plenty of picture of fumigation chambers but NONE, NADA, Zilch of a real live homicidal one….
                  I guess having a picture of the so called murder weapon has become a problem for all you HoloHuxsters.
                  So what do you do, you show us pictures of fumigation chambers or real showers…..LOL
                  No homicidal gas chambers, no murder weapon, No bodies that were killed in one….you have quite a case to prove.
                  Oh thats right, you get out of it by saying the holocaust happened because it happened……Sure that will do it…..LOL

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 3:45 pm

                • “Looking for proof….LOL I still waiting for a picture of a homicidal gas chamber that you HoloHuxsters have been talking about….”

                  Bored, Jim.

                  “Plenty of picture of fumigation chambers but NONE, NADA, Zilch of a real live homicidal one….
                  I guess having a picture of the so called murder weapon has become a problem for all you HoloHuxsters.”

                  The delousing buildings still stand because no one was gassed in them, Jim. Yawn.

                  “So what do you do, you show us pictures of fumigation chambers or real showers…..LOL
                  No homicidal gas chambers, no murder weapon, No bodies that were killed in one….you have quite a case to prove.”

                  It has been, over and over again.
                  Snore.

                  “Oh thats right, you get out of it by saying the holocaust happened because it happened……Sure that will do it…..LOL”

                  Click showed you documents regarding the gas chambers, Jim. I’ve provided proof of gas vans.

                  ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 3:59 pm

                • “I can throw all these sort of questions back at you. Where’s your proof that these German captives were not mistreated into falsely admitting to all these horrendous crimes? You produce no evidence whatsoever as to the conditions they were held in, nor the intensity of the interrogations that they underwent. So would kindly produce your documentation showing us this vital information. In other words – can we have some proof please?”

                  I don’t know if they were tortured, Talbot.
                  I don’t know what the conditions they were held in.

                  But, you are making the PRESUMPTION of torture, which is ridiculous.
                  See, I accept that the British initially tortured Hoess. That’s documented. But there’s no evidence that anyone tortured him later.

                  The Soviets may have beaten these men to a pulp.

                  Or they may have served them tea and cookies.

                  What I do have, however, is enough DOCUMENTED evidence of the use of gas vans. I also have PROOF that they were sent to Smolensk and Belarus.

                  YOU, on the other hand, have nothing.
                  I do mean nothing, Talbot. Nothing is being kind.

                  You’ve never provided proof that the Germans sent the Jews East. You don’t refute my evidence with proof, you only jab at it. You make guesses and then challenge me to refute your GUESSES.

                  I, at least, show you documents.

                  You claim forgery but, see, here’s the kicker:

                  You can’t PROVE IT.

                  There’s enough documented evidence to corroborate witness, victim and perpatrator statements. That’s called “convergence of evidence,” Talbot.

                  So, my suggestion is get back to me when you have hard evidence and not guesses.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 3:53 pm

                • You wrote: “I don’t know if they [the Germans] were tortured, Talbot.
                  I don’t know what the conditions they were held in.”

                  I wrote about the torture of the Germans on several blog posts, including this one:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/why-did-rudolf-hoess-confess-the-british-took-it-out-of-him-with-torture-says-his-80-year-old-daughter/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 4:59 pm

                • Oh dear, oh dear! – the Holocaust Controversies BlogSpot that you submitted is now producing a load of witness testimony regarding gas vans at Auschwitz. But surely even a holocaust believer would say to themselves “that does seem odd, because Auschwitz/Birkenau had no less than 7 fully-functioning gas chambers that could allegedly exterminate thousands per day – so why would they need any gas vans that could only accommodate a few dozen at a time.”

                  But if its “survivor” testimony, then we have to accept these statements at face value, otherwise we are labelled as holocaust deniers and haters.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 4:01 pm

                • “Oh dear, oh dear! – the Holocaust Controversies BlogSpot that you submitted is now producing a load of witness testimony regarding gas vans at Auschwitz. But surely even a holocaust believer would say to themselves “that does seem odd, because Auschwitz/Birkenau had no less than 7 fully-functioning gas chambers that could allegedly exterminate thousands per day – so why would they need any gas vans that could only accommodate a few dozen at a time.”

                  But if its “survivor” testimony, then we have to accept these statements at face value, otherwise we are labelled as holocaust deniers and haters.”

                  Unless the vans were utilized for small numbers of Jews, too small to make using the gas chambers efficient.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 4:17 pm

                • Tal, you need evidence against this, and while it had 7 gas chambers this doesn’t mean they were always open, Krema 1 shut down in 1943. Also these vans could have been used at Monowitz… I haven’t read the link, but you shouldn’t excuse possibilities.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 4:23 pm

                • You say that you have proof that “gas vans” were sent to Smolensk and Belarus. Well, Smolensk is a big city, and Belarus is a very large region. So you will have to tell us exactly where these gas vans operated; who drove them; how many victims were killed; and where the bodies were disposed of.

                  In addition, you will be able informs us if any human remains have been found and forensically examined.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 4:16 pm

                • http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/documents/et.html

                  This details drivers.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 4:24 pm

                • I’ve found some reports:

                  http://archives.gov.by/eng/index.php?id=847977

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 4:36 pm

                • If you say all these gas vans have been fully documented, then how many were produced in total – and what happened to them all afterwards ?

                  Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 4:25 pm

                • “If you say all these gas vans have been fully documented, then how many were produced in total”

                  I wouldn’t say fully documented, Talbot. I have documentation on them.
                  I don’t know how many were produced.

                  “– and what happened to them all afterwards ?”

                  They were driven back to Berlin and destroyed.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 4:39 pm

                • You wrote: “If you say all these gas vans have been fully documented, then how many were produced in total – and what happened to them all afterwards ?”

                  I don’t believe in the “gas vans”. I blogged about the gas vans at
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/gas-vans/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 5:55 pm

              • I read that Nizkor website closely, and there are absolutely no details of the sites where these “gas vans” took their victims for disposal. One cannot locate a single mass burial site. So there is no way upon this earth for anyone to prove that the vehicles were used for gassing people. All we have is hearsay evidence from people who claim that they saw Jews being loaded into vehicles, or untested statements from captured Germans – who none us of know what kind of duress they were under before they signed these statements.

                Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 4:47 pm

                • “I read that Nizkor website closely, and there are absolutely no details of the sites where these “gas vans” took their victims for disposal. One cannot locate a single mass burial site. So there is no way upon this earth for anyone to prove that the vehicles were used for gassing people. All we have is hearsay evidence from people who claim that they saw Jews being loaded into vehicles, or untested statements from captured Germans – who none us of know what kind of duress they were under before they signed these statements.”

                  Ok, Talbot.
                  Enough show and tell from my end.
                  We are going in circles, time to break the cycle.

                  I want your evidence that Holocaust denial is a legitimate avenue of history to explore.
                  I want your evidence of what happened to the Jews.

                  Your turn.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 5:05 pm

                • You wrote: “I want your evidence that Holocaust denial is a legitimate avenue of history to explore.”

                  How about Holocaust REVISIONISM? Is that a legitimate avenue of history to explore? Do we have to believe the first version of everything that we read. Can history be REVISED if there is new evidence?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 5:20 pm

                • You wrote: “I want your evidence that Holocaust denial is a legitimate avenue of history to explore.”

                  “How about Holocaust REVISIONISM? Is that a legitimate avenue of history to explore? Do we have to believe the first version of everything that we read. Can history be REVISED if there is new evidence?”

                  Sure. That happens all of the time.

                  My issue is this:

                  Most Holocaust “revisionism” that I see, from you and others, is linked with anti-Semitism. Also, there is a disturbing tendency to excuse, or exalt, the actions of Hitler and the other Nazis.
                  Hitler hero worship disturbs me.
                  In case you haven’t noticed, though, I don’t demonize Hitler. I always put him in his proper historical perspective. To me he is no different than Stalin or Mao, men who thought that the ends justify any means. So, I don’t say Hitler was insane. I look at him rather pragmatically.
                  I’m not closed minded and I’ve looked at places like Inconvenient History and CODOH. I’ve read some of the Holocaust Handbooks.
                  None of this convinced me. In fact, what I see is a vast ignorance of other victims, like Soviet POWs.
                  Even without the massacre of the Jews the Nazi government showed a distinct genocidal bent.

                  I will say I don’t agree with HD laws.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 5:53 pm

                • You wrote: “Most Holocaust “revisionism” that I see, from you and others, is linked with anti-Semitism”

                  What is your definition of anti-Semitism? Is there a law that says “Must love Jews”?

                  What is the word for hating non-Jews? What is the term for hating the German people?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 6:05 pm

                • You wrote: “Most Holocaust “revisionism” that I see, from you and others, is linked with anti-Semitism”

                  “What is your definition of anti-Semitism? Is there a law that says “Must love Jews”?”

                  Of course you don’t have to “love” Jews. I don’t “love” Jews.
                  But blaming Jews for the evils and ills of the world, plus the vomit inducing dreck I’ve seen from people like Jim, Hermie or Berg, calls into question yours (and others) objectivity.
                  Frankly, the only “revisionist” I saw that didn’t display this attitude was Bradley Smith, may he rest in peace.
                  I read something from him that he once wanted to punch one of his fellow revisionist in the face because this person advocated the genocide of the Jews.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 24, 2016 @ 6:33 pm

                • Antisemitism is just a code word for censorship particularly of people that disagree with the official Jewish version of the Holocaust…..pretty soon the USA will get on board to censor us even more so……I’ve been banned from producing cable shows in my town because the Jews said my shows were causing post traumatic stress among the Jews, pretty funny,….actuality the Jews lies about the HoloHoax are causing post traumatic stress among us Goyim, isn’t 75 years enough.

                  http://antisemitism.org.il/eng/Legislation%20Against%20Antisemitism%20and%20Denial%20of%20the%20Holocaust

                  I don’t hate Jews just hate the evil that they do and cover it up by blaming us who have the nerve to question them for lies.
                  Just for the record why do we have to like Jews? They don’t like us, can we claim Anti-white-ism

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 6:45 pm

                • You wrote: “I read that Nizkor website closely”

                  I am not sure, but I think that the Nizkor website was the first Holocaust web site on the Internet. It was written years ago, and has not been updated for many years. Most of the people who wrote the articles on this website are now dead.

                  I wrote about the Niskor website on this blog post:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/nizkor/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 5:28 pm

                • Jeff asks;- “I want your evidence that Holocaust denial is a legitimate avenue of history to explore.”
                  ” I want your evidence of what happened to the Jews.”

                  Well, in my humble estimation, Holocaust denial is indeed a legitimate avenue of history to explore, because the three main pillars that prop up the alleged event are gravely in doubt.

                  1) That there was a deliberate Nazi program to exterminate all the Jews in Europe.

                  2) That up to 6 million Jews perished in total.

                  3) That the majority were gassed in purpose-built homicidal chambers, road vehicles, or in machine-gun pits.

                  Jeff’s second question is a more complex one, because if the 6 million number is a wildly over-exaggerated figure then obviously no one is able to provide him with the answer he is searching for. In addition we have to take on board the fact that many Jews left Europe before the war, and even during the first two years of the conflict itself. During the war itself, many Jews were moved around Europe – first into ghettos, and then into various labour and concentration camps scattered throughout the German-held territories.

                  As the war turned badly for the Germans, conditions in these camps deteriorated rapidly, and unfortunately many Jews – and other people – died prematurely of disease and hunger-related problems. At the time of the final collapse of Nazi Germany it is quite clear that both Jews and non-Jews lost their lives in the chaos and confusion. Then, in the immediate post-war years, when so many people were displaced as refugees right the way across Europe, there were no authorities in existence that could keep a track on the movements of individual Jews. It is quite possible that many of them left Europe altogether to begin new lives in other countries of the world – such as Canada, the USA, Britain, South Africa, Australia, Turkey, Lebanon, Palestine, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil etc – plus of course the vast territories of the former Soviet Union.

                  I would suggest that many Jews survived the trauma of WW2 – and yes, it was a trauma, perhaps even a tragedy that befell the Jewish population of Europe, but it is interesting to note, that the German authority responsible for the compensation of “holocaust” victims state that over 4 million individuals eventually claimed to be “survivors” of the event.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 6:54 am

                • You wrote: “As the war turned badly for the Germans, conditions in these camps deteriorated rapidly, and unfortunately many Jews – and other people – died prematurely of disease and hunger-related problems.”

                  The problem was that the Germans had already discovered that DDT was harmful to the environment and they refused to use it to kill the lice that spreads typhus. America was using DDT and when the Americans liberated the camps, they sprayed everyone and everything with DDT, thus stopping the Holocaust in which prisoners died from disease.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:58 am

                • This is for FG for some reason things disappear here when responding to the article.

                  FG….you became a revisionist when you saw what the HoloHuxsters were writing was pure nonsense…..
                  I’ve seen you articles evolved over time to where they are now and I’m glad to see you cut through all their HoloHoax nonsense and have read the truth that the revisionist have been publishing and have seen the light.
                  I encourage people to read the HoloHuxsters crap then read the rebuttal by the revisionist you cant help to see how off the mark the HoloHuxsters stuff is and what they do to stop the truth from being seen.

                  It’s one thing to oppose the revisionist information but another thing to make laws that stop our message from getting out.
                  That is what brought me into the camp of the revisionist, the fact that the Jews and their HoloHoax backers will go to the extremes they go to make laws to stop the message from going to others.
                  That is just plain despicable, and we know at some point in time this censorship will be making it’s way here to the USA.
                  The Hate laws that protect the illegal immigrants, gays, blacks etc are going to morph into Holocaust criticism and the hunt will be on for us revisionist. Lets see how the free speech advocates will deal with that when it happens.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 9:08 am

                • You wrote: “Lets see how the free speech advocates will deal with that when it happens.”

                  When America becomes the 20ieth country to have a Holocaust denial law, “free speech” will not apply to the Holocaust. There will be a new law which states that, with regard to the Holohoax, you must believe what the Jews tell you to believe, or go to prison for up to 15 years.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 9:20 am

                • You wrote: “for some reason things disappear here when responding to the article.”

                  Sometimes, a comment will go into the spam folder and will not show on my blog.

                  I have a list of words that are typically used by spammers. Maybe you used a word that was considered to be spam. Also, WordPress decides that some words indicate spam and your comment does not go up. I check the spam folder to see if a comment has been incorrectly labeled as spam, and if it has, I put the comment up myself.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 12:18 pm

                • You wrote: ” it is interesting to note, that the German authority responsible for the compensation of “holocaust” victims state that over 4 million individuals eventually claimed to be “survivors” of the event.”

                  You can’t perpetrate a Holocaust without planning to have survivors to tell the story.

                  I wrote the story of one survivor on this blog post:

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/the-nazis-counted-jews-and-murdered-every-tenth-person-says-holocaust-survivor/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 9:34 am

                • Jeff asks;- “I want your evidence that Holocaust denial is a legitimate avenue of history to explore.”
                  ” I want your evidence of what happened to the Jews.”

                  “Well, in my humble estimation, Holocaust denial is indeed a legitimate avenue of history to explore, because the three main pillars that prop up the alleged event are gravely in doubt.”

                  “1) That there was a deliberate Nazi program to exterminate all the Jews in Europe.”

                  This is a rather simplistic explanation of what happened.

                  “2) That up to 6 million Jews perished in total.”

                  You can’t seem to tell me what happened to them or where they went.

                  “3) That the majority were gassed in purpose-built homicidal chambers, road vehicles, or in machine-gun pits.”

                  The number is more around 50%, not a majority.

                  “Jeff’s second question is a more complex one, because if the 6 million number is a wildly over-exaggerated figure then obviously no one is able to provide him with the answer he is searching for.”

                  Why? Surely “revisionist scholars” have dedicated themselves to this question?
                  You’re not going to try and rely on “Rudenko’s Camps,” are you?

                  “In addition we have to take on board the fact that many Jews left Europe before the war, and even during the first two years of the conflict itself.”

                  OK, stats to back that up, please.

                  “During the war itself, many Jews were moved around Europe – first into ghettos, and then into various labour and concentration camps scattered throughout the German-held territories.”

                  Actually you are thinking too hard about this. The majority of the dead were Polish or Soviet Jews, along with a large number of Hungarian Jews. That’s what you should focus on.

                  “As the war turned badly for the Germans, conditions in these camps deteriorated rapidly, and unfortunately many Jews – and other people – died prematurely of disease and hunger-related problems. At the time of the final collapse of Nazi Germany it is quite clear that both Jews and non-Jews lost their lives in the chaos and confusion. Then, in the immediate post-war years, when so many people were displaced as refugees right the way across Europe, there were no authorities in existence that could keep a track on the movements of individual Jews.”

                  That is not the case….at all. In fact the first refugee organization was founded in 1943:

                  “The United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration was set up in 1943, to provide humanitarian relief to the huge numbers of potential and existing refugees in areas facing Allied liberation. UNRRA provided billions of US dollars of rehabilitation aid, and helped about 8 million refugees. It ceased operations in Europe in 1947, and in Asia in 1949, upon which it ceased to exist. It was replaced in 1947 by the International Refugee Organization (IRO), which in turn evolved into United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in 1950.”

                  “It is quite possible that many of them left Europe altogether to begin new lives in other countries of the world – such as Canada, the USA, Britain, South Africa, Australia, Turkey, Lebanon, Palestine, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil etc – plus of course the vast territories of the former Soviet Union.”

                  You really need to provide stats. This looks like guesswork.

                  “I would suggest that many Jews survived the trauma of WW2 – and yes, it was a trauma, perhaps even a tragedy that befell the Jewish population of Europe, but it is interesting to note, that the German authority responsible for the compensation of “holocaust” victims state that over 4 million individuals eventually claimed to be “survivors” of the event.”

                  I’ve asked Jim for information regarding this “compensation” aspect. Now I’ll ask you:
                  What stats are involved with this?
                  Were all of these people Jews?
                  Do we have totals by year? By decade?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 10:57 am

                • The follow extract comes from FG’s webpage about the alleged “gas vans” at Chelmno;-

                  The camp was established in November 1941.The extermination process began on December 8, with the ghetto population of the cities and towns of the Warthegau, first from the neighbouring Kolo, Dabie, Sompolno, Klodawa and many other places, and later from Lodz itself. The first Jews arrived at Chelmno from Lodz in the middle of January 1942. From that time onwards an average of 1000 a day was maintained, with short intermissions, till April 1943.”

                  Well if that figure of a thousand a day was correct, then it would mean that well in excess of 350,000 souls perished in these diabolical vehicles – and that doesn’t even include the Jews that were allegedly brought there from the Lodz in Ghetto in 1944. But the official total of victims at Chelmno today is just 152,000 – so something is wrong somewhere, maybe the holocausters are not very good at counting and sums!

                  Continuing;- “Those who were brought here for destruction were convinced till the very last moment that they were to be employed on fortification work in the East. They were told that, before going further, they would have a bath, and that their clothes would be disinfected.”

                  I would suggest that the reason that these Jews were brought to Chemno was not for “destruction” but precisely for the reason stated in the rest of the sentence.

                  Continuing;- “Immediately after their arrival at the camp they were taken to the large hall of the house, where they were told to undress, and then they were driven along a corridor to the front door, where a large lorry, fitted up as a gas-chamber, was standing. This, they were told, was to take them to the bath-house. When the lorry was full, the door was locked, the engine started, and carbon monoxide was introduced into the interior through a specially constructed exhaust pipe. After 4-5 minutes, when the cries and struggles of the suffocating victims were heard no more, the lorry was driven to the wood, 4 km (2 1/2 miles) away, which was enclosed with a high fence and surrounded with outposts. Here the corpses were unloaded and buried, and afterwards burnt in one of the clearings”.

                  This fantasmagorical proposition is not backed up by any physical evidence at all. The house where this was alleged to have taken place wasn’t even standing when Polish investigations took place after the war, and Jeff has told us definitively that all the alleged gas vans were taken back to Berlin and destroyed. So, for evidence, we are completely dependent upon the testimonies of so-called eye-witnesses and, of course, the captured Germans who were the alleged perpetrators and who were held in custody of their former enemies at the time – Bah!

                  My challenge now, to the gallant holocausters, is to find a modern van of similar style and dimensions to those that are alleged to have been used back during the war, and carry out exactly the same operation with this vehicle as was done back then – but without human beings locked inside of course. We shall then find out if such a method of mass killing is feasible or even possible.

                  To be perfectly honest, I am mightily surprised that such an experiment has not been carried out long before now!

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 7:46 am

                • When I started writing my website back in 1998, I was a True Believer. Since then, I have become a Revisionist. I have written about Chelmno on my blog at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/chelmno-the-little-known-death-camp/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:32 am

                • “The follow extract comes from FG’s webpage about the alleged “gas vans” at Chelmno;-

                  “The camp was established in November 1941.The extermination process began on December 8, with the ghetto population of the cities and towns of the Warthegau, first from the neighbouring Kolo, Dabie, Sompolno, Klodawa and many other places, and later from Lodz itself. The first Jews arrived at Chelmno from Lodz in the middle of January 1942. From that time onwards an average of 1000 a day was maintained, with short intermissions, till April 1943.”

                  “Well if that figure of a thousand a day was correct, then it would mean that well in excess of 350,000 souls perished in these diabolical vehicles – and that doesn’t even include the Jews that were allegedly brought there from the Lodz in Ghetto in 1944. But the official total of victims at Chelmno today is just 152,000 – so something is wrong somewhere, maybe the holocausters are not very good at counting and sums!”

                  You didn’t pay attention to what FG said:
                  “From that time onwards, an AVERAGE of 1000 a day was maintained, with SHORT INTERMISSIONS, till April of 1943.
                  An average does not mean 1000 per day, it means sometimes more, sometimes less. Short intermission is an undetermined length of time. Does that mean a day? A week? A week? A month?
                  See, you made the same mistake the Poles and Soviets did. The West Germans, during the Chelmno Trials in the 1960’s, have a total of 145,000 during the initial stages of the camps operation. When the Germans terminated the Lodz Ghetto in 1944, they sent 7,000 to the reactivated camp. The West Germans added that total, equaling 152,000.
                  See, a tad bit of research on your part would have told you the same.

                  Continuing;- “Those who were brought here for destruction were convinced till the very last moment that they were to be employed on fortification work in the East. They were told that, before going further, they would have a bath, and that their clothes would be disinfected.”

                  “I would suggest that the reason that these Jews were brought to Chemno was not for “destruction” but precisely for the reason stated in the rest of the sentence.”

                  See, there’s the infamous “Talbot Suggestion” again.
                  Proof, please.

                  “Continuing;- “Immediately after their arrival at the camp they were taken to the large hall of the house, where they were told to undress, and then they were driven along a corridor to the front door, where a large lorry, fitted up as a gas-chamber, was standing. This, they were told, was to take them to the bath-house. When the lorry was full, the door was locked, the engine started, and carbon monoxide was introduced into the interior through a specially constructed exhaust pipe. After 4-5 minutes, when the cries and struggles of the suffocating victims were heard no more, the lorry was driven to the wood, 4 km (2 1/2 miles) away, which was enclosed with a high fence and surrounded with outposts. Here the corpses were unloaded and buried, and afterwards burnt in one of the clearings”.

                  “This fantasmagorical proposition is not backed up by any physical evidence at all. The house where this was alleged to have taken place wasn’t even standing when Polish investigations took place after the war,”

                  Why would the Germans blow up an empty manor in the middle of Warthgau, Talbot?
                  That’s like the Germans blowing up the “Krema” in Birkenau with a fully functioning industrial park (Monwitz) standing nearby. I would “suggest” they had better things to do with their time.

                  “and Jeff has told us definitively that all the alleged gas vans were taken back to Berlin and destroyed.”

                  Yup, they sure did.

                  “So, for evidence, we are completely dependent upon the testimonies of so-called eye-witnesses and, of course, the captured Germans who were the alleged perpetrators and who were held in custody of their former enemies at the time – Bah!”

                  Except that only a few of the Chelmno personnel were actually captured at the end of the war. The most extensive trial of the Chelmno guards and drivers occurred in the 1960’s, in West Germany.
                  Are you saying the West Germans tortured these people?
                  It goes without saying that the convicted received light sentences, half were not convicted.
                  The excuse for this miscarriage of justice?
                  Genocide was not a crime in Nazi Germany.

                  “My challenge now, to the gallant holocausters, is to find a modern van of similar style and dimensions to those that are alleged to have been used back during the war, and carry out exactly the same operation with this vehicle as was done back then – but without human beings locked inside of course. We shall then find out if such a method of mass killing is feasible or even possible.

                  To be perfectly honest, I am mightily surprised that such an experiment has not been carried out long before now!”

                  Um, Talbot, nobody really has to conduct such an experiment. Exhaust fumes are dangerous because of the large amonts Carbon Monoxide that are in petrol fumes. That’s been know since the invention of the internal combustion engine. Actually, the ancient Greeks realized that Carbon Monoxide is deadly.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 11:29 am

                • Jeff writes;-

                  ““From that time onwards, an AVERAGE of 1000 a day was maintained, with SHORT INTERMISSIONS, till April of 1943.
                  An average does not mean 1000 per day, it means sometimes more, sometimes less. Short intermission is an undetermined length of time. Does that mean a day? A week? A week? A month?
                  See, you made the same mistake the Poles and Soviets did. The West Germans, during the Chelmno Trials in the 1960’s, have a total of 145,000 during the initial stages of the camps operation. When the Germans terminated the Lodz Ghetto in 1944, they sent 7,000 to the reactivated camp. The West Germans added that total, equaling 152,000.”

                  I can’t quite see why you are arguing about the math. Whether it is 1,000 per day, or an average of 1,000 a day, you’re still going to end up with at least 350,000 – assuming these short intermissions totalled no more than three months. You say that the West Germans produced a figure of 145,000 in the Chelmno Trial during the 1960’s. But where did this number come from? You claim to be the expert on documents so you ought to be able to produce the evidence of how they arrived at this figure.

                  Jeff goes on to say;- “Why would the Germans blow up an empty manor in the middle of Warthgau.

                  You have no proof that the manor house was blown up by the Germans. After it had been used for its purpose of processing the Jews then it could well have remained derelict and been destroyed by fire. But even if the Germans did destroy it, then why would they leave the incriminating foundations still standing, when it is claimed that a special commission was sent from Berlin to obliterate all the evidence.

                  “and Jeff has told us definitively that all the alleged gas vans were taken back to Berlin and destroyed. Yup, they sure did”.

                  But my dear Mr K – if you don’t know how many of these gas vans existed in the first place, then how do you know for certain that they were all destroyed afterwards in Berlin. I presume that you have some kind of evidence to back up your claim.

                  Jeff continues;- “Are you saying the West Germans tortured these people?
                  It goes without saying that the convicted received light sentences, half were not convicted.”

                  No, I’ve never claimed that any of the former guards etc. were tortured in West Germany before these trials took place – in fact I would be very surprised if they were. But neither you, nor I, are privy to the pressures, inducements, warnings and deals done behind the scenes between the men’s lawyers and the government and their legal representatives. The light sentences handed out, plus the fact that half of the men were not even convicted is very telling indeed. That is a clear indication that the court itself was very dubious about Chelmno being a death camp. If it were, then all the men would have been sentenced to periods between 5 years and life imprisonment.

                  Jeff’s finally says;- ” Um, Talbot, nobody really has to conduct such an experiment. Exhaust fumes are dangerous because of the large amonts Carbon Monoxide that are in petrol fumes. That’s been know since the invention of the internal combustion engine. Actually, the ancient Greeks realized that Carbon Monoxide is deadly”.

                  No one is disputing that carbon monoxide is deadly – but what we want to find out is whether these wretched gas vans would have actually worked in reality. And I suspect the reason that this has never been done, is because the holocaust proponents daren’t risk such an experiment in case it goes spectacularly wrong.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 1:28 pm

                • Jeff writes;-

                  ““From that time onwards, an AVERAGE of 1000 a day was maintained, with SHORT INTERMISSIONS, till April of 1943.
                  An average does not mean 1000 per day, it means sometimes more, sometimes less. Short intermission is an undetermined length of time. Does that mean a day? A week? A week? A month?
                  See, you made the same mistake the Poles and Soviets did. The West Germans, during the Chelmno Trials in the 1960’s, have a total of 145,000 during the initial stages of the camps operation. When the Germans terminated the Lodz Ghetto in 1944, they sent 7,000 to the reactivated camp. The West Germans added that total, equaling 152,000.”

                  “I can’t quite see why you are arguing about the math. Whether it is 1,000 per day, or an average of 1,000 a day, you’re still going to end up with at least 350,000 – assuming these short intermissions totalled no more than three months. You say that the West Germans produced a figure of 145,000 in the Chelmno Trial during the 1960’s. But where did this number come from? You claim to be the expert on documents so you ought to be able to produce the evidence of how they arrived at this figure.”

                  This is a list of transports, Talbot:

                  1941 Dec. 7 Koło 700
                  Dec. 8 Koło 700
                  Dec. 9 Koło 700
                  Dec. 10 Koło 700
                  Dec. 11 Koło 700
                  Dec. 14 7 D ą bie 975
                  Dec. (second half) Dobra 1,100
                  1942 Jan. 2–9 Łód ź (Roma) 4,300
                  Jan. 10, 12 Kłodawa 1,000
                  Jan. 13 Bugaj 600
                  Jan. 14–15 Izbica Kujawska 1,000
                  Jan. 16–29 Łód ź 10,003
                  Feb. 2 Sompolno 1,000
                  Feb. 22–28 Łód ź 7,025
                  Mar. 1–31 Łód ź 24,699
                  Mar. 2 Kro ś niewice 900
                  Mar. 3 Ż ychlin 3,200
                  Mar. (first half) Ozorków 500
                  Mar. (second half) Podd ę bice 2,008
                  Mar. 26 8 Kutno 6,000
                  Apr. 1–2 Łód ź 2,349 9
                  Apr. 10 Grabów 1,240
                  Apr. 10–11 Ł ę czyca 1,750
                  Apr. 16–17 10 Gostynin 2,000
                  Apr. 16–17 11 G ą bin 2,150
                  Apr. 17 Sanniki 250
                  Apr. 22 Osi ę ciny 300
                  Apr. (mid-month) 12 Brze ś ć Kujawski < 200
                  13 Apr. (mid-month) Piotrków Kujawski < 550
                  Apr. 30–May 2 Włocławek 3,500
                  May 4–15 Łód ź 10,914
                  May 17–18 Pabianice 4,000
                  May 19–20 14 Brzeziny 3,000
                  May 22 15 Ozorków 300
                  June 10–11 Radziejów Kujawski 630
                  July 20 Czachulec 10,000 16
                  July (end) Lutomiersk 750
                  Aug. 11–13 17 Bełchatów 4,953
                  Aug. 14 Szadek 450
                  Aug. 22 Sieradz 1,400
                  Aug. 22–24 Warta 1,353
                  Aug. 24–28 Łask 2,600 18 Aug. 19 (last week) Wielu ń 10,000
                  Aug. 25–26 20 Zdu ń ska Wola ń 10,900
                  Sept. 1–2, 7–12 Łód ź 15,685
                  21 Sept. 14 22 Zelów 6,000 23

                  1944 June 23 Łód ź 562
                  June 26 Łód ź 912
                  June 28 Łód ź 803
                  June 30 Łód ź 700
                  July 3 Łód ź 700
                  July 5 Łód ź 709
                  July 7 Łód ź 700
                  July 10 Łód ź 700
                  July 12 Łód ź 700
                  July 14 Łód ź 700

                  Total for 1941–43: 165,034
                  Total for 1944: 7,196 Grand Total: 172,230

                  This is from Patrick Montague's "Chelmno and the Holocaust.

                  You'll notice there are gaps. There were periods of time when there were no transports. The Poles investigating the camp after the war took the numbers literally, like you did. They didn't account for the periods of time when the camp didn't receive transports.
                  The numbers of transports don't quite match up with the West German numbers but Montague has updated numbers.

                  Jeff goes on to say;- “Why would the Germans blow up an empty manor in the middle of Warthgau.

                  "You have no proof that the manor house was blown up by the Germans. After it had been used for its purpose of processing the Jews then it could well have remained derelict and been destroyed by fire."

                  Except that the building was destroyed in 1943. The Germans didn't use it in 1944.

                  "But even if the Germans did destroy it, then why would they leave the incriminating foundations still standing, when it is claimed that a special commission was sent from Berlin to obliterate all the evidence."

                  Really? You are worried about foundations?
                  They didn't destroy the foundations at the Reinhard Camps or completely destroy the Krema at Birkenau.

                  “and Jeff has told us definitively that all the alleged gas vans were taken back to Berlin and destroyed. Yup, they sure did”.

                  "But my dear Mr K – if you don’t know how many of these gas vans existed in the first place, then how do you know for certain that they were all destroyed afterwards in Berlin. I presume that you have some kind of evidence to back up your claim."

                  Nizkor has an interesting article regarding the development of these vehicles:

                  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/chelmno/sonderdruck.html

                  There were no gas vans in existence at the end of the war. I can't remember where I read that gas vans were returned and destroyed.

                  Jeff continues;- “Are you saying the West Germans tortured these people?
                  It goes without saying that the convicted received light sentences, half were not convicted.”

                  "No, I’ve never claimed that any of the former guards etc. were tortured in West Germany before these trials took place – in fact I would be very surprised if they were. But neither you, nor I, are privy to the pressures, inducements, warnings and deals done behind the scenes between the men’s lawyers and the government and their legal representatives. The light sentences handed out, plus the fact that half of the men were not even convicted is very telling indeed. That is a clear indication that the court itself was very dubious about Chelmno being a death camp. If it were, then all the men would have been sentenced to periods between 5 years and life imprisonment."

                  What evidence do you have that the court was dubious about Chelmno being a death camp?

                  Jeff’s finally says;- ” Um, Talbot, nobody really has to conduct such an experiment. Exhaust fumes are dangerous because of the large amonts Carbon Monoxide that are in petrol fumes. That’s been know since the invention of the internal combustion engine. Actually, the ancient Greeks realized that Carbon Monoxide is deadly”.

                  "No one is disputing that carbon monoxide is deadly – but what we want to find out is whether these wretched gas vans would have actually worked in reality. And I suspect the reason that this has never been done, is because the holocaust proponents daren’t risk such an experiment in case it goes spectacularly wrong."

                  I believe I've asked you for your evidence regarding Holocaust denial.
                  You haven't provided any.
                  Do you not have any? Where is your evidence?

                  Specifically, where is your evidence regarding the Jews sent to Chelmno? Where were they sent, Talbot, if they weren't gassed there?
                  We'll start with Chelmno. We'll go to the other camps later.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 3:35 pm

                • We weren’t talking about cremations.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 4:04 pm

                • It’s still good stuff….

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 4:08 pm

                • I’m not getting in on this one. I’m still waiting for someone to help me with the issue I have with the main trials and then the subsequent trials. This talk of cremation reminds of ol James Bond. 007 almost got torched in “Diamonds are Forever”. He got out of it,I just can’t recall how. Been years since I saw the movie. My curiosity got tweaked here. So I went straight to the source. Green lawn Funeral Homes. Springfield,Mo. They said it takes 1400 to 1800 degrees to torch a body. They said it takes 2 to 2.5 hours for the process to take place. I’m figuring in order to keep production numbers where you need them,it’s gonna have to be a controlled environment. I’ve seen pictures of these ovens. They don’t look like they can keep a constant temperature. I’ve seen pics of real crematorium ovens. These things are made from metal and look to be air tight. I’m going with what the Texas Funeral Directors Association has said about the ovens. So how how could the ovens at the prisons ,stay neck and neck with the ovens at the funeral homes. How could they keep production numbers up,if they don’t compare to a real oven,the funeral homes would use? Like I said ,I’m taking sides here,but when you juxtapose the ovens, the prison ovens only seem to be one step above the Betty Crocker Easy Bake Oven.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 4:57 pm

                • Before we discuss evidence of missing Jews, do you not think it a good idea to ascertain that the murder weapon that was alleged to have been used to mass murder people at Chelmno actually worked?

                  I find it very difficult to believe that such an experiment has never been undertaken before. To my mind, a viable murder weapon is the most important ingredient in establishing the truth of mass murder. Without that, then one can produce all kinds of documents, lists and testimonies – but they don’t add up to a row of beans if you haven’t got a verified, workable murder weapon.

                  This would be akin to a murder trial in a court of law, where a water pistol is submitted as evidence for the murder weapon. The prosecutor may well produce tons of other evidence and documents galore. He might even produce witnesses and police statements identifying the weapon – but never-the-less its still a water pistol, and thus incapable of a carrying out a murder.

                  No, I’m afraid Jeff and his holocaust advocates have now got to produce conclusive proof that these gas vans actually worked – and the only way of doing that is by a controlled re-enactment of the deed using a contemporary vehicle ( but without people inside of course ).

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 4:26 pm

                • You wrote: “Before we discuss evidence of missing Jews, do you not think it a good idea to ascertain that the murder weapon that was alleged to have been used to mass murder people at Chelmno actually worked?”

                  I have a whole section about Chelmno on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Chelmno/index.html

                  I don’t believe that Chemlmno was a death camp. I think that it was a transit camp. There is no proof that anyone was gassed there.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 4:38 pm

                • You wrote: “Before we discuss evidence of missing Jews, do you not think it a good idea to ascertain that the murder weapon that was alleged to have been used to mass murder people at Chelmno actually worked?”

                  “I have a whole section about Chelmno on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Chelmno/index.html

                  “I don’t believe that Chemlmno was a death camp. I think that it was a transit camp. There is no proof that anyone was gassed there.”

                  Then perhaps you can tell me what happened to the Jews sent there.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 4:45 pm

                • You wrote: “Then perhaps you can tell me what happened to the Jews sent there [Chelmno]”

                  The Jews were disinfected at Chelmno and then sent to work in the East. Women were not sent to Chelmno because it was a transit camp for men who were sent to work.
                  I wrote about this on this blog post:

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/in-the-final-solution-where-and-how-did-the-chelmno-death-camp-fit-in/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 5:00 pm

                • “The Jews were disinfected at Chelmno and then sent to work in the East. I wrote about this on this blog post:”

                  Where is your proof that the Jews were disinfected and sent East?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 5:20 pm

                • You wrote: “Where is your proof that the Jews were disinfected and sent East?”

                  I wrote about Chelmno on my website while I was still a True Believer. One reason that I think that no one was killed at Chelmno is because all the prisoners who were sent to Chelmno were men. If the Jews were sent to Chelmno to be killed in GAS VANS, why weren’t women sent there too?

                  The Nazis were desperate for male workers because all the German men were in the army. Hitler did not approve of women working at hard labor.
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Chelmno/history.html

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 5:39 pm

                • “I wrote about Chelmno on my website while I was still a True Believer. One reason that I think that no one was killed at Chelmno is because all the prisoners who were sent to Chelmno were men. If the Jews were sent to Chelmno to be killed in GAS VANS, why don’t send women there too.”

                  “The Nazis were desperate for male workers because all the German men were in the army. Hitler did not approve of women working at hard labor.”

                  Why do you think only men were sent there?

                  http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_image.cfm?image_id=3763

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 5:44 pm

                • Yes, I remember Lidice. I wrote about Lidice on one of my blog posts:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/the-fate-of-the-bialystok-ghetto-children-who-were-sent-to-theresienstadt/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 6:09 pm

                • These children went to Chelmno:

                  “On 2 July 1942, most of the children of Lidice, a small village in what was then Czechoslovakia, were handed over to the Łódź Gestapo office. Those 82 children were then transported to the extermination camp at Chełmno 70 kilometers away. There they were gassed to death. This remarkable sculpture by by Marie Uchytilová commemorates them. Yet what had they (and their families) done to warrant such an end?”

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 6:20 pm

                • I wrote about gas vans on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/gas-vans/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 6:25 pm

                • More nonsense from Horror Disneyland.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 6:16 pm

                • Then prove where these Jewish children were sent.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 6:21 pm

                • You wrote: “Where is your proof that the Jews were disinfected and sent East?”

                  I wrote the answer to your question on this blog post:

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/did-hitler-just-want-to-expel-the-jews-from-europe-or-did-he-want-to-kill-them-all/

                  The whole Holocaust story is based upon the assumption that Hitler wanted to kill all the Jews, so he sent them to camps to be killed. Workers were needed because all the German men were in the Army and the German women were staying at home to take care of their six children. Why kill the potential workers?

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 5:51 pm

                • “The whole Holocaust story is based upon the assumption that Hitler wanted to kill all the Jews, so he sent them to camps to be killed.”

                  That’s an erroneous assumption.
                  The Germans did utilize the Jews for labor. The ones not needed they killed.
                  Not all of the Jews sent to the camps were killed. Not all the Jews killed died in camps.

                  “Workers were needed because all the German men were in the Army and the German women were staying at home to take care of their six children. Why kill the potential workers?”

                  They didn’t, they killed the ones they didn’t need.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 6:06 pm

                • You wrote: “They didn’t, [kill all the Jews] they killed the ones they didn’t need.”

                  They didn’t need the children who were too young to work, but they didn’t kill them. There are Holocaust survivors, who are still alive today, because they were not killed when they were too young to work.

                  There are three famous photos of children, who were too young to work, but they survived the death camp at Birkenau; the Soviet liberators took photos of the children.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 6:18 pm

                • Plenty of children survived and they tell their story all over the Internet and interviews. To think that Hitler want to kill all these children is ridiculous typical nonsense of Holohucksters who have to make Hitler look like the most evil man on the Earth.
                  The Jews didn’t have anyone to complain about they wouldn’t have anything to do.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 6:22 pm

                • “They didn’t need the children who were too young to work, but they didn’t kill them. There are Holocaust survivors, who are still alive today, because they were not killed when they were too young to work.”

                  Just because a few survived because they looked older or were bigger or taller does not mean ALL of the children survived, or even most.

                  “There are three famous photos of children, who were too young to work, but they survived the death camp at Birkenau; the Soviet liberators took photos of the children.”

                  I believe those children were held for medical experimentation.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 6:29 pm

                • Speaking of child survivors,where’s Wolfman? I ain’t seen him here in forever. Hope all is well with him.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:06 pm

                • I think the Wolfman met his match on this site.
                  He couldn’t b******* his way into people’s minds here because we’re not that stupid to accept everything that he says as gospel truth.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 8:09 pm

                • Yeah I remember the ol man would get pissed on a daily basis. Still I hope he’s okay and in good health.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:12 pm

                • You wrote: “where is Wolfman?” I assume that you mean Wolf Murmelstein. He is 81 years old and he might be having some health problem.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:13 pm

                • Some talk of child survivors here and he popped into my head. Jimbo said,”think he met his match here”. I just hope all is well with him and he’s not having medical problems. I do miss him telling Talbot and Jimbo to kiss his ass. Those 2 always had a quick comeback when he said that

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 8:18 pm

                • I know what we can do, let’s call him up and tell him that 6 million Jews did not die during the HoloHoax but many many less did I know he’s not going to like that he’s not going to be happy knowing less died. For some reason the more that he thinks died the happier he is.
                  Go figure….

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 8:30 pm

                • Damn Jimbo. Never a dull moment with you. I’ve given this considerable thought. You’ve got to be a Yankee . Yankees are thick headed and set in their ways to no end. All the Yanks I’ve ever known have the attitude,”you don’t like what I have to say,tough shit.” serious business. Yall have the,”you want me to apologize? It’s gonna be a cold day in hell” attitude. I knew this Mic I served with in Nam. He was from Queens. His attitude was,”f–k em if they can’t take a joke”. Y’all are just to hard core.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 9:06 pm

                • You wrote: “I just hope all is well with him and he’s not having medical problems.”

                  I don’t think that he stopped commenting because he was upset or angry, so it must be a medical problem.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:50 pm

                • All the same,I hope he’s okay

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 9:07 pm

                • I did a quick check, as far as I know Wolf is still alive.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 11:35 pm

                • You wrote “as far as I know Wolf [Murmelstein] is still alive.”

                  If he were dead, this would be in the news world wide. His father was famous, thus making Wolf famous by association.

                  His doctor might have told him to stay out of this discussion because it is bad for his blood pressure.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 7:03 am

                • He’s also famous for spreading lies about what happened in the camps.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 7:37 am

                • You wrote: [Primo Levi] “also famous for spreading lies about what happened in the camps.”

                  I also wrote this blog post about Primo Levi.

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/06/02/the-late-primo-levy-is-back-in-the-news/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 26, 2016 @ 7:49 am

                • Pretty much all the testimony from those holohoax survivors are lies.
                  Jeff doesn’t want to deal withthe multitudes of liars on this site because there’s so many of them he wouldn’t be able to deal with it.
                  I would so much love to be able to be in a room wit a Holohoax Survivor and talk to them about their experiences in the camp it would be quite humorous.
                  I would tear him apart with facts but then I would get taken to task because these people are old and frail and I would be offending them because I wasn’t believing what they said so they all would turn upon me as being the bad guy when there they are the bad guys for lying all these years.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 26, 2016 @ 9:39 am

                • Yeah but since the holo took place many moons back,do you honestly think any major news outlets would pick it up. People on both sides of the holo would be interested,but general population,wouldn’t give 2 shits. If you don’t think that’s demonstrable ,go to “Bing” homepage. “1,000 foot glass slide opens atop L A skyscraper ( they interviewed the first idiot to ride it). He got his Andy Warhol “15 minutes”. Next we’ve got Aziz Ansari writing an open letter about Trump. This hammerheads an actor. I don’t take political advice from actors. He’s got plenty of sheep that probably j–k o-f to his picture and would follow him to hell. The human race has f–ked up priorities . Wolfman is wealth of information. Wether the holo happened or not,he live physically and geographically in a time when heavy shit was going down. Yet people are more concerned with how much weigh J Lo lost. If John Travolta is really gay. How is any of that shit gonna play out ,a thousand years from now (provided we haven’t gone extinct). Wolfman is part of hardcore history. Not some asshole hippie burning his draft card.

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 8:24 am

                • You find out if he’s in good health? People would complain he was too cranky. I ain’t never met an old fart that ain’t . So medically he’s doing okay? He may have been cranky,but I can tell he enjoyed a battle of wits . I still get a kick out of him,telling someone to kiss his ass. That was always an indicator he was running out of “calm”

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 8:08 am

                • There’s no way for me to tell, Tim.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 26, 2016 @ 8:49 am

                • Well if you find out anything,let us know

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 9:33 am

                • “Before we discuss evidence of missing Jews, do you not think it a good idea to ascertain that the murder weapon that was alleged to have been used to mass murder people at Chelmno actually worked?”

                  I’m fine with it. Lock people in a box, pour in Carbon Monoxide laden gas exhaust, people die.

                  If you dispute that, tell me where the Jews from Chelmno went.

                  “I find it very difficult to believe that such an experiment has never been undertaken before. To my mind, a viable murder weapon is the most important ingredient in establishing the truth of mass murder. Without that, then one can produce all kinds of documents, lists and testimonies – but they don’t add up to a row of beans if you haven’t got a verified, workable murder weapon.”

                  Talbot, people use the exhaust from cars and trucks to commit suicide.
                  Now, I want to see your evidence where the people from Chelmno went if they didn’t die.

                  “This would be akin to a murder trial in a court of law, where a water pistol is submitted as evidence for the murder weapon. The prosecutor may well produce tons of other evidence and documents galore. He might even produce witnesses and police statements identifying the weapon – but never-the-less its still a water pistol, and thus incapable of a carrying out a murder.”

                  Well, if you put something toxic in a water pistol, say cyanide and squirt it in someone’s mouth, well, it’s a viable murder weapon.
                  Now tell me what happened to the Jews if they didn’t die.

                  “No, I’m afraid Jeff and his holocaust advocates have now got to produce conclusive proof that these gas vans actually worked – and the only way of doing that is by a controlled re-enactment of the deed using a contemporary vehicle ( but without people inside of course ).”

                  But, without people inside, how could you tell?

                  See, I think all of this bleating and screeching about transport lists, numbers of dead and tilting off course with talking about murder weapons means you don’t have evidence to the contrary that any Jews left the camps.
                  Naturally, feel free to prove me wrong.
                  I want proof that the people transported to Chelmno didn’t die there and were sent somewhere else.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 4:42 pm

                • A re-enactment of these gas van murders is an absolute requirement here. Assertions about shutting people in sealed boxes and feeding carbon-monoxide inside is just not good enough. Why are you holocausters so afraid of carrying out such a project. Is it because that in reality the process is far too dangerous for the operators and drivers. No one would even go near a vehicle which is full of such fumes, let alone climb underneath it and start detaching a hose from a fixed pipe and re-attaching it again to another pipe. Nor would anyone climb in the cab and start switching the ignition off and on and then driving it for several miles. The proposition is totally idiotic.

                  But you ask where the Jews went if they weren’t murdered at Chelmno. Well, the straight answer is – I don’t know. But what I suspect is that these people were transported on eastwards into the Occupied Soviet Union for forced labour and deportation – as was the policy laid down by the National Socialist regime at the time. But just because we haven’t got evidence of this transportation, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen – all it means is that the evidence is missing, or – much more likely – has been deliberately suppressed by the Soviets, and to a lesser extent the Poles.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 5:17 pm

                • “A re-enactment of these gas van murders is an absolute requirement here.”

                  Why?
                  Do you think shutting people up in the back of a van and pumping exhaust in as good for their health?

                  “Assertions about shutting people in sealed boxes and feeding carbon-monoxide inside is just not good enough. Why are you holocausters so afraid of carrying out such a project. Is it because that in reality the process is far too dangerous for the operators and drivers. No one would even go near a vehicle which is full of such fumes, let alone climb underneath it and start detaching a hose from a fixed pipe and re-attaching it again to another pipe. Nor would anyone climb in the cab and start switching the ignition off and on and then driving it for several miles. The proposition is totally idiotic.”

                  There were technical problems, the Germans solved them.
                  What, don’t you think the Germans could solve a technical problem?

                  “But you ask where the Jews went if they weren’t murdered at Chelmno. Well, the straight answer is – I don’t know. But what I suspect is that these people were transported on eastwards into the Occupied Soviet Union for forced labour and deportation – as was the policy laid down by the National Socialist regime at the time. But just because we haven’t got evidence of this transportation, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen – all it means is that the evidence is missing, or – much more likely – has been deliberately suppressed by the Soviets, and to a lesser extent the Poles.”

                  Ah. So, in other words, more of the infamous Talbot guesswork and supposition.

                  Talbot, I’ve spent the last day giving you documents, providing a transport list, defeating your arguments and the best you have is a……..wait for it…….a…….wait for it………..guess.
                  No proof. None. Nunca. Zippo.
                  So, in this case, history wins out and deniers lose.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 5:35 pm

                • But you holocaust proponents are hopelessly adrift with the numbers you claim were processed through Chelmno. Why should we take you people seriously about anything at all. Martin Gilbert claims that upwards of 360,000 Jews were transported to Chelmno, and Patrick Montagu gives a total of 172,000. The USHMM says 152,000 – so there is no fixed number – these holocaust number are flexible to say the least.

                  And we are still waiting for some credible evidence that these alleged gas vans would be able to function in the manner that is alleged. You have singularly been unable to provide any evidence at all of their ability to carry out the systematic murder of these vast of numbers of people. It is claimed there were only three of these vehicles allocated to Chelmno in the first place – and one of them blew up ( showing how dangerous this system of mass murder was ) leaving just two of them to carry out the enormous task. You have produced no documents showing the duty cycles of these vehicles, their maintenance schedules, and where they were serviced and maintained.

                  The paucity of credible evidence for these gas vans is quite stunning. You admit that have no idea at all of how many were actually produced, and yet you say ( without producing any evidence ) that they were all taken back to Berlin and destroyed. Well – we’ve only got your word for that. I’m afraid your version of history is – well…sadly lacking, but you could help your cause a lot by re-enacting these alleged gassings in a contemporary vehicle.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 6:18 pm

                • “But you holocaust proponents are hopelessly adrift with the numbers you claim were processed through Chelmno. Why should we take you people seriously about anything at all. Martin Gilbert claims that upwards of 360,000 Jews were transported to Chelmno,”

                  He used old information.

                  “and Patrick Montagu gives a total of 172,000.”

                  The transport lists prove that.

                  “The USHMM says 152,000 – so there is no fixed number – these holocaust number are flexible to say the least.”

                  The USHMM used the number arrived at by the Chelmno Trials.

                  “And we are still waiting for some credible evidence that these alleged gas vans would be able to function in the manner that is alleged. You have singularly been unable to provide any evidence at all of their ability to carry out the systematic murder of these vast of numbers of people. It is claimed there were only three of these vehicles allocated to Chelmno in the first place – and one of them blew up ( showing how dangerous this system of mass murder was ) leaving just two of them to carry out the enormous task. You have produced no documents showing the duty cycles of these vehicles, their maintenance schedules, and where they were serviced and maintained.”

                  Oh, good grief, Talbot.
                  The Nizkor article I provided shows a lot of the information you asked for. I’m not going to keep copying things for your amusement.
                  Seriously, duty cycles? Maintenance schedules? Serviced and maintained? Is there an assumption these things exist? Or that they exist on-line?

                  I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you provide me the duty and maintenance schedules for vehicles for Montgomery’s army in Africa. How about this, this should be easier:
                  I want the maintenance schedule for the HMS Aircraft Carrier, the Arc Royal R09. It was commisioned in 1943.

                  “The paucity of credible evidence for these gas vans is quite stunning.”

                  More information exists than some bullshit theory about Jews transported to the East.

                  “You admit that have no idea at all of how many were actually produced, and yet you say ( without producing any evidence ) that they were all taken back to Berlin and destroyed. Well – we’ve only got your word for that. I’m afraid your version of history is – well…sadly lacking, but you could help your cause a lot by re-enacting these alleged gassings in a contemporary vehicle.”

                  SADLY LACKING?

                  Right now, I want any and all information related to the transports of Jews to the USSR, specifically those related to transports of Jews from Chelmno, the Operation Reinhard Camps and Auschwitz Birkenau.
                  I need, specifically, transport schedules, personnel transactions, any and all correspondence related to coordination between the Wehrmacht, SS and Regional Gauleiters.
                  Naturally I will accept any eyewitness accounts but these eyewitnesses have to state, specifically, that these transports exited the above camps to arrive at their destination.

                  Go.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 7:02 pm

              • This is what bothers me about the trials. All the victors judged the people accused of war crimes. I don’t think we were too pissed off at Germany . British and the soviets on the other hand,they had the axe from hell to grind. Now discussing what the nazis did or didn’t do,would be for naught. Here’s what I want to know. Taking another humans life is very personal. We killed Germans ,Germans killed us. That pales in comparison with the shit that happened between Germany and England or Germany and the Big Red Bear. Germany sending something along the lines of tactical nukes (minus the nuclear capability) the V2 to England . Civilians died. The closest thing we could to identifying with that,was Pearl. Mostly military people died,but some civilians lost their lives. Wether the nazis did in fact commit these crimes,is not my issue. My complaint is this. How in the hell could they get a fair and impartial conviction,with the Ruskies and the Brits,sitting in judgement. I’m surprised someone’s defense attorney didn’t bring that up. If the military was involved,there’s no way in hell we got the full story. Everyone that judged the nazis were on trial too. They sat in the court of world opinion. I’ve seen it happen before. Don’t matter if you’re the winner or not. You don’t give the world the verdicts they expect,your shits cooked. Here’s one that tells me,Nuremberg trials,were f–led as hell. Subsequent Nuremberg Trials. They were supposed to have 12 more trials,but nobody could get on the same page. Brits didn’t like the way France was playing . France didn’t like how we were handling shit and the Ruskies didn’t like what anybody was doing . So if we have to try these 12 cases seperatly,how is it we can honestly say,the first group got a fair trial? We had these trials seperatly,because nobody was on the same page. I don’t care what anyone says,there’s no way in hell the people in the first trial,were tried the same way the folks in the second one were .

                Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 1:48 pm

                • You are quite right Tim when you ask;- “How in the hell could they get a fair and impartial conviction, with the Ruskies and the Brits, sitting in judgement. I’m surprised someone’s defense attorney didn’t bring that up. If the military was involved, there’s no way in hell we got the full story. Everyone that judged the nazis were on trial too.”

                  The reality of course, is that these weren’t fair trials, and were not designed to be that either. This was victor’s justice at its finest. The whole concept of the Nuremburg Tribunals and subsequent trials was to demonize the former Nazi regime as well as the entire German nation. It was basically a massive propaganda campaign to win over the hearts and minds of the rest of the world to the idea that the Soviets and the western Allies were righteous avengers against an unspeakable evil – regardless of their own questionable actions in the pursuit of the war.

                  You wonder why the defense attorney’s didn’t challenge the make-up of the court? Well, they were all German lawyers, who had to obey the diktat of the victorious Allied and Soviet Occupation authorities. They wouldn’t – and couldn’t – challenge the legal arrangements, otherwise they themselves might be intimidated or arrested. Their role was simply to provide a piece of legal fiction, to show the world that the trials were being carried out according to established and proper legal norms.

                  But that is an interesting observation of yours – and one that I’ve never thought about before – “that everyone that judge the Nazis were on trial too”. Yes, that is probably very true. All the participants in these trials felt their own national governments, and their superiors and peers breathing down their necks in order to ensure that they arrived at the “correct” verdicts.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 25, 2016 @ 3:21 pm

                • You wrote: “Here’s one that tells me,Nuremberg trials,were f–led as hell. Subsequent Nuremberg Trials. They were supposed to have 12 more trials,but nobody could get on the same page. Brits didn’t like the way France was playing . France didn’t like how we were handling shit and the Ruskies didn’t like what anybody was doing”

                  I wrote about the Nuremberg show trials on this blog post:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/the-nuremberg-show-trials-aka-the-nuremberg-international-military-tribunal/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 4:51 pm

    • I wrote about the “gas vans” on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/gas-vans/

      Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 9:54 am

  3. “Now you have a name you can use to explain Who You Are.”

    Huh?

    Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 7:48 pm

  4. The user “Click”‘s posting about cremations was a misinterpretation of the cremation list presented. Here is the full list:

    And here is my reason’s for why Click got it wrong
    https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2548&start=10#p78610

    Comment by blake121666 — June 23, 2016 @ 4:14 pm

    • Leichen Means corpses and if you read the time table, it quite clearly says she’s correct….

      Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 11:54 am

    • Repost:

      “Anyone who claims the “Uhr” column refers to cremation times of the corpses in other column is wrong, yes. Closed case for me for years and is a bit absurd to see somebody still claiming that in 2016, but when I look at other stuff that “Click” is posting, then I do not wonder.”
      Umm… You do understand the time slip it counting the daily cremation correct? These are not times which account for a short period of time. It’s a simple idea, in the page anon links makes this quite clear… Why exactly this time sheet is new to you, I have no idea.
      As well the cremation time hasn’t exactly changed, as well according to Hdot.org the time the corpses were inside the ash collector was 5 minutes, no an extra twenty. McVay though does claim the total time in the ash collector to be 20 min. The point behind the use of the Gusen time sheet was that it shows quite clearly that the number of bodies which could be cremated in a day was higher then the 48 bodies which Jim wishes to be accurate.
      Zimmerman has quite well addressed the issue that Mattogno tries to push.
      “Mattogno has tried to discredit the idea that the Gusen timesheet supports the idea of a 25 minute cremation by arguing that the numbers on the sheet which represent the times of cremation do not really mean the hours that the cremation was taking place. He writes that because of my
      “utter ignorance of camp thermotechnology, it is not surprising that he [Zimmerman] has not understood anything: First of all, the first column of the document bears the inscription ‘Uhr’ “hour”, but nowhere is it specified to what this “Uhr” corresponds. However, Professor Zimmerman decides to authorize it to refer to the time of cremation, but this is not merely an unauthorized interpretation, it is also technically absurd, because if that were the case the oven would have been able to cremate one cadaver in 8 minutes with grill speed. (Reply, 10, italics added)”
      In fact, the timesheet in question specifies the time that the oven was operating on each day. It does this by clearly showing at what time of day various loads of coke were added. It then gives the total number of prisoners cremated on each day. The timesheet unambiguously shows this information. However, the time sheet does not show how long the last operation of each day took. It only shows the time of the day when coke was added. The exception is the November 7, 1941 operation when 94 bodies were burned in 19 hours and 45 minutes in two ovens. We know the time because the operation started at 11:15 A.M. The last load of coke was added at 5 A.M on November 8. We know that this last burning only lasted two hours because the time sheet for November 8 starts at 7 A.M.”
      According to the time sheet it operated for the time that I have provided and Danny has explained it quite well.
      “Summary: In Gusen camp, which was a sub-camp of the Mauthausen concentration camp, 2 Topf cremation muffles sufficed to cremate 94 corpses in 20 working hours. Contrast this with claims by “Holocaust revisionists”, who allege that it would take two, or three, or four hours, to cremate one corpse.”
      https://web.archive.org/web/20040617222842/http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/
      It doesn’t take very much thought to understand that I have it correct. Perhaps this is why you didn’t reply this directly to me, for a response. The cremation rate doesn’t exactly prove much, not as much as DK wants it to, but it’s still a point.
      As well the issue is beside the point Blake. It’s quite a show though that you were willing to take the time to do that math, I’m not sure. It seems quite pointless, and how your calculations make my point impossible, I’m not sure. Here is my recommendation… Put away the pocket calculator.
      Your effort doesn’t disprove the time sheet, and it’s not much of an outlier. As you would like to claim, the times which they decide to cremate bodies may be different. Depends on how large the pile would be and at what times the people had died. When exactly there was a build up, I’m not aware of a time sheet that records when people died at Gusen, but I’m sure if one exist it would show quite clearly why the numbers were the way they came out. Going off from the estimates of 4 bodies an hour per muffle I can see if we can burn 42 bodies in 7 hours.
      The math is quite simple.
      # hours • Cremation rate per hour • # of muffles.
      7•4•2 = 56 corpses
      Making the number 42 corpses a non issue.

      Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 1:12 pm

      • It is actually not as simple as
        # hours • Cremation rate per hour • # of muffles

        As your own sources in your links say, the cremation rate per hour is not a constant and depends on a number of factors – the most important of which is if the oven starts out warm (not cold) or not. But I’ll grant you that for a continuously running cremation operation such as shown here at Gusen, a rate of approximately 25 minutes per corpse per muffle was achieved with that 94 corpses in about 19-20 hours on 11/7/41.

        The average rate for all of the entries from 10/31/41 through 11/12/41 turns out to be about 50 minutes per corpse per muffle.

        You have not shown any 4 cremations per hour anywhere here. You’ve shown the exceptional case of about 2 cremations per hour (25 minutes per corpse per muffle) and the overall average for the 13-day run was about 1 cremation per hour (50 minutes per corpse per muffle).

        For all we know there could have been some exceptionally small corpses cremated on 11/7/41 and 11/8/41; but since you have evidence of this in a real scenario, I will grant that this was and could have been done (cremation rate of about 2 corpses an hour).

        I think you might have misinterpreted my Rodoh post (and might have confused Bob’s replies to me with me as well). It doesn’t matter what I was getting at there – if you want to know, I was mistakenly thinking that these coke loads were deliveries and the cremation counts didn’t exactly relate to the left-hand times. But I’ve changed my mind. I think that the left hand figures are coke loads directly fueling the ovens at the time and amount listed. That is what your sources are saying and so we are in agreement. No need to belabor things.

        I accept your evidence for the Gusen 2-muffle cremation oven having achieved a cremation rate of about 2 corpses per hour per muffle on 11/7/41.

        Comment by blake121666 — June 24, 2016 @ 4:21 pm

  5. I’m a bit surprised that I haven’t heard any complaints about this:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29029058

    Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 9:52 am

    • You wrote “I’m a bit surprised that I haven’t heard any complaints about this [link to news article.]

      I’m on the case. Three years ago, I blogged about the plans to put up this memorial:

      https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/concentration-camp-prisoners-who-wore-a-black-triange-will-be-honored-in-a-new-berlin-memorial/

      Comment by furtherglory — June 23, 2016 @ 11:00 am

    • Why would they complain? Accordingly they care more about sites like Auschwitz.

      Comment by Lóegaire — June 23, 2016 @ 12:46 pm

      • Well, I see a lot of complaining about Jewish memorials. Why not over the disabled, the Roma, the homosexual memorials?

        Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 12:56 pm

        • I mean really now homosexual memorials??? are you kidding me. Why in God’s name would there be a memorial to homosexuals read Romans chapter 1 and get the understanding of what’s going on with them.

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 1:05 pm

          • Stop being such a religious fuck, what in gods name did the homosexuals do to you Jim? What has a single one done to ruin your life?

            Comment by Lóegaire — June 23, 2016 @ 1:21 pm

            • Read Romans chapter 1 you’ll find out what they are doing against God has nothing to do with me.

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 1:46 pm

              • I’m not here to learn gods word, I am here to ask the question to you. What has a Homosexual ever done to harm you?

                Comment by Lóegaire — June 23, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

                • If you haven’t read Romans chapter 1 you’re not going to get understand particular verses 18 through 32 they haven’t hurt me but they have hurt God and what his expectations of people are I don’t make the rules. Just like dealing with the Holocaust and all the information there I’m just the messenger.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 3:29 pm

                • Jim, you have no reason then to complain.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 24, 2016 @ 11:44 am

                • The Jews could visit here if we bring up his word ( well if they lived around Houston,I’d suggest Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Curch). They forgot John 14:6. ” I am the way,truth and the life. No one comes to the father,accept throgh me”. Not much gray area . Hope they got a good excuse as to why they don’t need to acknowledge the savior when they’re standing before the ol man on judgement day.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 5:05 am

          • “I mean really now homosexual memorials??? are you kidding me. Why in God’s name would there be a memorial to homosexuals read Romans chapter 1 and get the understanding of what’s going on with them.”

            They were a persecuted group of people in Nazi Germany.

            To be honest this feels a bit sanctimonious to me… homosexuality was a crime in a lot of countries at that time. I realize that homosexuals in the Third Reich were treated badly (subjected to medical experiments, castrated, etc) but Germany was hardly alone in treating homosexuality as a crime.

            The ironic thing about this is many of the early Nazis, Ernst Roehm the most prominent, were homosexuals. It was only after the Night of the Long Knives and Roehm’s execution did the Nazi government crack down on male homosexuals (oddly lesbians were not arrested or persecuted).

            My own personal opinion is that I honestly don’t give a crap whether someone is gay or straight.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 1:23 pm

            • They were persecuted,but they weren’t killed like the Jews . Has there ever been a historical study done,to see if there were any successful cases from the reeducation camps? I don’t go along with it,for the simple fact the bible says,” man will not lay with man,the way he does with woman”. Clearly the nazis didn’t realize,being gay is not a sickness. It’s a lifestyle choice. It’s where someone feels comfortable. It’s no different than transsexuals

              Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:37 pm

          • You wrote: “Why in God’s name would there be a memorial to homosexuals”

            Homosexuals get a memorial because they were among the victims of the Nazis. Homosexuality was against the law in Germany and homosexual men were sent to Dachau for six months after they had been arrested for breaking the law.

            Comment by furtherglory — June 23, 2016 @ 2:40 pm

          • That reminds me of something FG said. Gays were not killed. She said they were sent to reeducation camps. I thought all the memorials were for groups of people they say were murdered. I don’t give two shits about their lifestyle. They stay on their side of the street,I’ll stay on mine. However they can’t put a monument up,because they got sent to reeducation camps. Worst scenario,it tossed a monkey wrench into their lifestyle

            Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:23 pm

        • Lol so I decided to search for people who think Jims and Idiot, and the English revisionist that spams HC even thinks Jims an idiot.

          Lol when another revisionist who has read more then Jim could even wish to have read says he’s an idiot, then he should know he has a problem.

          Comment by Lóegaire — June 23, 2016 @ 1:26 pm

          • “Lol so I decided to search for people who think Jims and Idiot, and the English revisionist that spams HC even thinks Jims an idiot.

            Lol when another revisionist who has read more then Jim could even wish to have read says he’s an idiot, then he should know he has a problem.”

            The wabbit is well versed about documentation and is far more knowledgeable than Jim could ever be.

            I remember that comment, it was directed at me. I tripped the wabbit up regarding documented evidence of gas vans in Mogilev, he hasn’t spoken to me since.

            I think a lot of deniers like Jim because he gives them a platform to speak from. Other than that I can’t see what use he is to them, all he does is plagiarize the “Holocaust Handbooks” and make really offensive videos where he impersonates Jews.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 1:36 pm

            • You wrote: “I tripped the wabbit up regarding documented evidence of gas vans in Mogilev, he hasn’t spoken to me since.”

              I have never heard of Mogilev. In what country is this place? I thought that the gas vans were only used at Chelmno.

              The Chelmno death camp has historical significance because it is allegedly the first place where the Jews were gassed. According to Holocaust historian Martin Gilbert, the “Final Solution” began when 700 Jews from the Polish village of Kolo arrived at Chelmno on the evening of December 7, 1941 and on the following day, all of them were killed with carbon monoxide in gas vans. The victims were taken on 8 or 9 separate journeys in the gas vans to a clearing in the Rzuchowski woods near Chelmno.

              Comment by furtherglory — June 23, 2016 @ 2:31 pm

              • Mogilev is a modest-sized city which sits on the River Dnieper in modern day Belarus – back then called Byelorussia (or White Ruthenia by the Germans). During Operation Barbarossa in June/July 1941, it fell to the German army, and exactly 3 years later Mogilev was retaken by the Soviets during Operation Bagration.

                But its news to me too, that gas vans were operating there. But this a feature of holocaustianity – you can name any old place you like in eastern Poland and western Russia and you can have gas vans galore!. In fact, you can have anything you want – gas chambers; machine-gun pits; slaked lime pits; burning pyres; drowning in swamps….whatever – its all great fun, but alas very little of it is true!

                Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 3:13 pm

                • “But its news to me too, that gas vans were operating there.”

                  I believe I mentioned it before. The Einsatzgruppen Units operating in Belorussia began using them in late 1941.

                  “But this a feature of holocaustianity – you can name any old place you like in eastern Poland and western Russia and you can have gas vans galore!. In fact, you can have anything you want – gas chambers; machine-gun pits; slaked lime pits; burning pyres; drowning in swamps….whatever – its all great fun, but alas very little of it is true!”

                  I would think you’d be very familiar with Belorussia, after all, isn’t this where the alleged camps for the Jews were set up? You know, the ones from the Action Reinhard Camps? The place that Rudenko talks about, the camps with the 33,000 inmates, the three camps he mentioned during the IMT?

                  Do you still think those camps were filled with foreign Jews?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 4:08 pm

                • ” I believe I mentioned it before. The Einsatzgruppen Units operating in Belorussia began using them in late 1941.”

                  Oh yeah! – is that right?

                  ” I would think you’d be very familiar with Belorussia, after all, isn’t this where the alleged camps for the Jews were set up? You know, the ones from the Action Reinhard Camps? The place that Rudenko talks about, the camps with the 33,000 inmates, the three camps he mentioned during the IMT?

                  ” Do you still think those camps were filled with foreign Jews? ”

                  I certainly believe that both foreign AND Soviet Jews were sent to camps in Belorussia, the Eastern Ukraine and Russia proper. But, alas, the truth has been deliberately supressed by our former glorious Soviet comrades and allies – plus their latter-day reincarnation in the form of Mr Putin, who has closed the archives to any independent or honest researchers, and only allows access to the dull and dreary conformist historians who you admire so much.

                  The Soviet prosecutor Rudenko read out a whole list of names of cities where German labour camps existed during the occupation. He was careful to claim that they were full of “Soviet citizens”. Note; he did not use the words “civilians”, as one might expect. Why was this? Was it because he was told by his superiors behind the scenes that he must not on any account use the words “foreign” or “Jews”, because Soviet policy at that stage was to build up the extermination narrative both in Poland and in the Soviet Union.

                  But I come back to his 3 camps and his 33,000 inmates. Why did on earth did he mention just these, and not any of the others?

                  How strange – we’ll have to ask some senior freemasons, perhaps they will have some idea!

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 5:01 pm

                • ” I believe I mentioned it before. The Einsatzgruppen Units operating in Belorussia began using them in late 1941.”

                  “Oh yeah! – is that right?”

                  Oh, yes. I believe so.

                  ” I would think you’d be very familiar with Belorussia, after all, isn’t this where the alleged camps for the Jews were set up? You know, the ones from the Action Reinhard Camps? The place that Rudenko talks about, the camps with the 33,000 inmates, the three camps he mentioned during the IMT?

                  ” Do you still think those camps were filled with foreign Jews? ”

                  “I certainly believe that both foreign AND Soviet Jews were sent to camps in Belorussia, the Eastern Ukraine and Russia proper.”

                  Well, let’s go to the tape:

                  I present to the Tribunal as Exhibit Number USSR-4 (Document Number USSR-4) the report of the Extraordinary State Commission of the Soviet Union for the investigation of the murder of people by means of spreading typhus epidemics. Such evidence was not presented before, and I shall therefore quote several excerpts from this report. I begin the quotation on Page 454 of the document book, first column of the text, first paragraph; last paragraph on Page 266 of the Russian text. I begin the quotation:

                  “On 19 March 1944 advancing Red Army units discovered, near the settlement of Osaritchi in the region of Polesskoy in the Bielorussian S.S.R., within the limits of German defense lines, three concentration camps in which there were over 33,000 children, women, and old men incapable of work.”

                  I interrupt my quotation, and I omit one paragraph.

                  “The camps were really open squares surrounded by barbed wire. The approaches to them were mined. There were no buildings whatever even of the most insignificant type in the camp grounds.”

                  I call the Tribunal’s attention to the fact that all this happened in March, in Bielorussia, when it is really very cold there.

                  “The inmates were sitting on the ground. Many of them had lost their ability to move and were lying unconscious in the mud. It was forbidden to the inmates to build fires, to gather brush or branches for bedding. The Hitlerites shot Soviet people for the slightest attempt to violate this order.

                  “For concentration camps close to the nearest line of defense, the Germans, in the first place, selected sites in such places where they did not hope to retain their position. Secondly, they concentrated large masses of Soviet people in the camps, placing there primarily women, children, and old men unable to work. Thirdly, they placed in these camps thousands of typhus patients who were brought from various temporarily occupied regions of the Bielorussian S.S.R., especially for this purpose. They were kept together with the starved, weak inmates who no longer could serve as labor and who were living there under the most unhygienic conditions.

                  578

                  19 Feb. 46

                  “Among those liberated from these camps were 15,960 children up to the age of 13; 13,072 women incapable of work, and 4,448 old men.”

                  I omit the next page and read Page 269 of the Russian text. I quote only one paragraph which reveals the methods used by the criminals to drive into the camps peaceful citizens from various regions of Bielorussia. Witness Mrs. L. Pikarskaya, who was liberated from the camp, testified before the commission:

                  “On 12 March 1944 late in the afternoon, we, the inhabitants of the city of Jlobin, were forced to assemble within half an hour at the station Jlobin South. Here the Germans selected all the young ones and took them away. Having herded us into railroad cars, the Germans closed the doors tightly. Where we were going we didn’t know, but we all anticipated some evil….

                  “As we found out later on, we were taken along the Rudobelkovsky railway and unloaded late in the afternoon on 15 March. During the night, knee deep in sticky mud, we were driven into a camp. From this camp were driven into another one. On the way the Germans beat us, and those who lagged behind were shot. One woman was walking with three children. One of the children fell down. The Germans shot at him. Horrified, the mother and the two other children looked back; the monster soldiers shot them down one by one. The mother cried out in agony, but her shriek was interrupted by a direct shot. Another mother and son, the Bondarews, walked side by side. The child could not stand the tiring journey and fell down. The mother bent over him, she wanted to encourage him with a word; but neither the son nor the mother rose or saw the blue sky again; the Germans shot them.”

                  I omit the next page of this document and I pass to the presentation of some evidence testifying to the fact that the Germans purposely concentrated in this camp the typhus-stricken people. I quote three paragraphs from Page 271 of this text:

                  “A. S. Mitrachovich, a resident of the village of Novo-Belitza who was liberated from the camp, testified:

                  ” ‘We who were sick with typhus were driven to the village of Mikul-Gorodok into a camp surrounded by barbed wire.’

                  “An inhabitant of the hamlet of Novogrudok, Z. P. Gavrilchik, testified:

                  ” ‘During 3 days typhus-stricken patients were brought in motor cars into camp, with the result that many who were healthy also became sick.'”

                  579

                  19 Feb. 46

                  I omit the next two pages of the document and I pass over to what the members of the Tribunal will find on Page 254, on the reverse side, second column of the text, Paragraph 6. I quote:

                  “The German Army Command used to send their own agents to the camps near the front line to observe how the typhus was spreading among the inmates and also among the Red Army units.”

                  Next there is the testimony of one of such agents, the traitor Rastorguev. I omit this quotation.

                  To conclude the presentation of evidence relative to this matter, I shall only quote a few excerpts from the findings of the medical experts of epidemical diseases. The Tribunal will find it on the back of Page 454, second column of the text. This is Page 274 of the Russian text. I begin the quotation:

                  “(a) The German authorities placed together in concentration camps both the healthy and the typhus-stricken Soviet citizens.

                  “(b) In order to expedite the dissemination of typhus in the camps, the Germans used to transfer the typhus patients from one camp to another.

                  “(c) On many occasions when typhus patients refused to go into the camp, the German authorities used force.

                  “(d) German aggressors used to move typhus patients from hospitals into the camps and mixed them with the healthy camp inmates.”

                  And the last paragraph:

                  “(e) The infecting of the Soviet population with typhus began in second half of February and was practiced to the middle of March.”

                  The result of it was mass infection of the people interned in the camp, and the members of the Tribunal will find proof of this in the next paragraph where it is said that the Red Army Command sent 4,052 Soviet citizens to the hospitals, among them 2,370 children below 13 years of age, all liberated just from one hamlet of Ozarichi, in the Poless region.

                  Yep, sound like Soviet citizens. Are you sure you want to continue with this line of inquiry?

                  “But, alas, the truth has been deliberately supressed by our former glorious Soviet comrades and allies – plus their latter-day reincarnation in the form of Mr Putin, who has closed the archives to any independent or honest researchers, and only allows access to the dull and dreary conformist historians who you admire so much.”

                  Actually, you are wrong about that (surprise!).

                  Both Mattogono and Graf, as well as David Irving (denier, not a denier, who really knows?) spent a great deal of time in the Moscow Archives. In fact, I believe Mattogono is currently living in Russia and is working as an interpreter. Or is it Graf? I don’t remember. Anyway, one of your denier….”scholars”…..is living in Russia.
                  Yet, they haven’t found any evidence of camps in the East. Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm….

                  “The Soviet prosecutor Rudenko read out a whole list of names of cities where German labour camps existed during the occupation. He was careful to claim that they were full of “Soviet citizens”. Note; he did not use the words “civilians”, as one might expect. Why was this? Was it because he was told by his superiors behind the scenes that he must not on any account use the words “foreign” or “Jews”, because Soviet policy at that stage was to build up the extermination narrative both in Poland and in the Soviet Union.”

                  “But I come back to his 3 camps and his 33,000 inmates. Why did on earth did he mention just these, and not any of the others?”

                  Hhhhhhmmmmm…..let’s go to that portion of Smirnov’s statement:

                  “report of the Yugoslav Government dealing with Camp Banyitza, near Belgrade, from which it is evident that the Yugoslavian camp, so far as bestial conditions

                  580

                  19 Feb. 46

                  are concerned, was quite identical with the camps in other countries of Eastern Europe. The members of the Tribunal will find this passage on Page 263 of the document book, second paragraph. I quote the third paragraph of this document:

                  “Camp Banyitza, near Belgrade was established by the German occupational authorities as far back as June 1941. From the captured documents of this camp it is evident that 23,637 inmates were registered there. However, from the testimony of the surviving witnesses, especially the employees of the quisling authorities who worked in this camp, it was possible to establish that in reality a much greater number of victims passed through this camp.””

                  Hey, he mentioned another camp.

                  As far as mentioning prisoners of other nationalities (connection to Auschwitz):

                  In only two camps of death the criminals exterminated 5 1/2 million people. In proof of this I quote the conclusions of the Extraordinary State Commission for Auschwitz. I will quote only a short excerpt. It is preceded by a detailed calculation. The Tribunal will find this reference on Page 356 of the document book, second column of the text, fourth paragraph. I begin the quotation:

                  “However, employing rectified coefficients for the part-time use of the crematorium ovens and for the periods when they stood empty, the technical expert commission has ascertained that during the period of time that the Auschwitz Camp existed the German butchers exterminated in this camp not less than 4 million citizens of the U.S.S.R., Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Holland, Belgium, and other countries.”

                  “The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission has ascertained that during the 4 years’ existence of the extermination camp at Maidanek the Hitlerite hangmen, following the direct order of their criminal government, exterminated by mass shooting and mass killing in gas chambers approximately 1.5 million persons: Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish Army, and nationals of various countries- Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Dutch, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croats, and a great number of Jews.”

                  So, Smirnov did mention other nationalities!!!!!!!!

                  He even said Jews!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  “The lengthy list of crimes against the peaceful inhabitants of the temporarily occupied areas of the U.S.S.R., Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, and Greece cannot be exhausted even in the most detailed statement. One can only point out a few very typical cases of cruelties, of base and systematic methods adopted by the major criminals who had conceived these crimes, as well as those who executed these crimes. Those who are now in the dock have freed from “the chimera of so-called conscience” hundreds of thousands and millions of criminals. They educated these criminals and created for them an atmosphere of impunity and drove their blood-thirsty hounds against peaceful citizens. They mocked at human conscience and self-respect. But those who were poisoned in murder vans and gas chambers, those who were torn to shreds, those whose bodies were burned in the ovens of crematoria and whose ashes were strewn to the winds, appeal to the conscience of the world. Now we cannot yet name, or even number, many of the burial places where millions of innocent people were vilely murdered. But on the damp walls of the gas chambers, in the places of the shootings, in the forts of death, on the stones and casemates of the prisons, we can still read brief messages of the doomed, full of agony, caning for retribution. Let the living ones remember these voices of the victims of German fascist terror, who before dying appealed to the conscience of the world for justice and for retribution.”

                  More about other nationalities!!!!!

                  http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-19-46.asp

                  Naturally there’s a lot of exaggeration in the Soviet testimony.

                  “How strange – we’ll have to ask some senior freemasons, perhaps they will have some idea!”

                  Sorry, Talbot, I live in the real world, not one haunted by Judeo-Bolshevist-Free Mason phantoms.

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 6:57 pm

                • New term I learned today..

                  Holoplagarizers
                  Inside the Gas Chambers p. 234
                  They the Holoplagarizers are careful to avoid any debate and hence cannot even refer to certain anti-revisionist internet bloggers who are at least trying to refute what the revisionists have to say. The fact is that the arguments of
                  these bloggers are so poorly put together that not even the participants of
                  the Oranienburg meeting take them seriously, even though these participants are quite willing to use internet sources. In a huge two-volume tome
                  we recently finished off those bloggers – who are more accurate called
                  Holoplagliarizers – by teaching them a harsh lesson in historical methods
                  which encompasses the entire Holocaust historiography.

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 7:05 pm

                • “Holoplagarizers
                  Inside the Gas Chambers p. 234
                  They the Holoplagarizers are careful to avoid any debate and hence cannot even refer to certain anti-revisionist internet bloggers who are at least trying to refute what the revisionists have to say. The fact is that the arguments of
                  these bloggers are so poorly put together that not even the participants of
                  the Oranienburg meeting take them seriously, even though these participants are quite willing to use internet sources. In a huge two-volume tome
                  we recently finished off those bloggers – who are more accurate called
                  Holoplagliarizers – by teaching them a harsh lesson in historical methods
                  which encompasses the entire Holocaust historiography.”

                  Please. The HC bloggers smack around the “revisionist scholars” so regularly that I’m surprised that the deniers can even sit down.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 7:21 pm

                • Now you have a name you can use to explain Who You Are.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 7:23 pm

                • Well done Jeff – you went to great efforts to produce this execrable material presented by the Soviet prosecutors at the Nuremburg IMT.

                  Let me quote what Comrade Smirnov said in front of the court;-

                  In only two camps of death the criminals exterminated 5 1/2 million people…

                  “However, employing rectified coefficients for the part-time use of the crematorium ovens and for the periods when they stood empty, the technical expert commission has ascertained that during the period of time that the Auschwitz Camp existed the German butchers exterminated in this camp not less than 4 million citizens of the U.S.S.R., Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Holland, Belgium, and other countries.”

                  “The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission has ascertained that during the 4 years’ existence of the extermination camp at Maidanek the Hitlerite hangmen, following the direct order of their criminal government, exterminated by mass shooting and mass killing in gas chambers approximately 1.5 million persons: Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish Army, and nationals of various countries- Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Dutch, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croats, and a great number of Jews.”

                  Oh dear, poor Mr Smirnov got his numbers so very wrong. He claims that 5.5 million victims were put to death in Auschwitz and Majdanek. But alas, he seems to have miscalculated by at least four million! My goodness me, how could a man be so wrong; but more to the point – how could a man such as you believe what he said and be prepared to quote his words at me as your evidence.

                  And would you kindly tell us what the loyal Stalinist comrade is talking about when he refers to “employing rectified coefficients”. It sounds very technical – and I’m quite sure it is.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 7:36 pm

                • “Well done Jeff – you went to great efforts to produce this execrable material presented by the Soviet prosecutors at the Nuremburg IMT.”

                  Don’t be upset with me. You and Hermie brought it up.

                  “Let me quote what Comrade Smirnov said in front of the court;-

                  In only two camps of death the criminals exterminated 5 1/2 million people…

                  “However, employing rectified coefficients for the part-time use of the crematorium ovens and for the periods when they stood empty, the technical expert commission has ascertained that during the period of time that the Auschwitz Camp existed the German butchers exterminated in this camp not less than 4 million citizens of the U.S.S.R., Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Holland, Belgium, and other countries.”

                  “The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission has ascertained that during the 4 years’ existence of the extermination camp at Maidanek the Hitlerite hangmen, following the direct order of their criminal government, exterminated by mass shooting and mass killing in gas chambers approximately 1.5 million persons: Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish Army, and nationals of various countries- Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Dutch, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croats, and a great number of Jews.”

                  Oh dear, poor Mr Smirnov got his numbers so very wrong. He claims that 5.5 million victims were put to death in Auschwitz and Majdanek. But alas, he seems to have miscalculated by at least four million!”

                  Oh well, we all make mistakes. For example, your mistake is thinking those camps, the ones with 33,000 people, were filled with foreign Jews.

                  “My goodness me, how could a man be so wrong; but more to the point – how could a man such as you believe what he said and be prepared to quote his words at me as your evidence.”

                  Again, you and Hermie brought these camps up. You are prepared to use Smirnov’s words regarding the camps in Belorussia as proof of foreign Jews. So, that makes you (and Hermie) hypocrites.

                  “And would you kindly tell us what the loyal Stalinist comrade is talking about when he refers to “employing rectified coefficients”. It sounds very technical – and I’m quite sure it is.”

                  How the hell should I know?

                  Still want to talk about the camps in Belorussia?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 7:45 pm

                • You say “How the Hell should I know”.

                  Well, it was you who produced all this stuff for us to study – I would have thought that before you published it on this website you would have known exactly what was it was you were actually presenting – but still….

                  And yes, if you have any further information about German-run camps in former Byelorussia then please submit it for our inspection. What actually occurred behind the front line inside the Soviet Union is not well-documented at all, and often what we have to rely on the kind of material that was submitted to the IMT by these Soviet prosecutors.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 8:40 pm

                • Its quite easy to see why people imagined that gas vans were being used to exterminate people. I was sitting in my garden one afternoon drinking a lot of Budweiser beer – and probably had a few too many! But then the kids came running in through the gate yelling “the van’s here – the van’s here”. Well, in my inebriated state, I immediately thought that a bunch of local Nazis were sending a gas van round to collect me! So without more ado, I ran off down the road trying to escape my ultimate destiny. Eventually, the kids caught up with me, and said. No Dad – its an ice cream van, not a gas van; could we have some money to by a cornetto?

                  I’ve no doubt something like that was happening in eastern Europe. Wartime rumours, combined with people drinking far too much Russian and Polish vodka began imagining that quite ordinary trucks, buses and vans – which had these producer-gas boilers fitted on to them due to wartime fuel shortages – were sinister gas vans where dozens of innocent victims were being driven to mass graves in the local forests.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 24, 2016 @ 7:52 am

                • Talbot, I’m putting my reply at the top of these comments.

                  Comment by Jeff K — June 24, 2016 @ 8:30 am

              • That’s interesting. They got there on the eve of the same day the Nips tried to f–k us at Pearl .

                Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 5:09 am

          • BTW, I have no idea why he called me “R Kelly.”

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 1:38 pm

            • Typo most likely.

              Comment by Lóegaire — June 23, 2016 @ 1:57 pm

    • Thank you Jesus! It’s not another monument to the Jews. They may get a bit pissed,cause they have to share the limelight . Tell them to listen to Geddy Lee. He’ll sing “Limelight” to them. They’ll feel better

      Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:17 pm

  6. There were no homocidal Chambers so there wouldn’t be any need for a gas-tight door and the buildings that they said people were gassed in krema 1 particularly didn’t have any gas tight doors or just regular wooden doors, or no door at all……. I guess that throws that out the window, or door.

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 11:26 am

    • “There were no homocidal Chambers so there wouldn’t be any need for a gas-tight door and the buildings that they said people were gassed in krema 1 particularly didn’t have any gas tight doors or just regular wooden doors, or no door at all……. I guess that throws that out the window, or door.”

      Click just showed you proof of the gas tight door.

      Saying there were no gas chambers so you wouldn’t need a door doesn’t change that.

      Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 11:37 am

      • Jeff…. do you really think people are that stupid just because you have a gas-tight door does that mean that there was something evil going on and couldn’t that door been used for a fumigation chamber?
        Sorry to say the more research you do the more dumber you get.
        Honestly Jeff couldn’t that door been used for fumigation chamber yes or no.
        My patience on this site is growing very thin especially with some of the comments.

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 12:16 pm

        • “Jeff…. do you really think people are that stupid just because you have a gas-tight door does that mean that there was something evil going on and couldn’t that door been used for a fumigation chamber?”

          Sure….except that such doors were not used for the fumigation chambers.

          You don’t need elaborate safety precautions for such buildings, you just need to seal the door.

          “Sorry to say the more research you do the more dumber you get.”

          Says the man who didn’t know what T-4 meant.
          You also didn’t know that Birkenau was originally created for Soviet POWs.
          You also for some reason think the Kapos ran the concentration camps.

          “Honestly Jeff couldn’t that door been used for fumigation chamber yes or no.”

          Sure, but they didn’t need a door like that for the buildings.

          “My patience on this site is growing very thin especially with some of the comments.”

          Well, when you are wrong a lot I can’t blame you.

          Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 12:39 pm

          • Show me where that door was used.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 12:44 pm

            • The Gas tight door document clearly states it was sent to Crematorium 2. Stop playing fucking games in claiming it was for a “Fumigation chamber”! Why In the hell would a Fumigation chamber need shower-heads Jim? You are just pull stuff out of a hat hoping it helps explain away documentation which clearly shows you are an idiot.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 1:00 pm

            • We also have a document which states a Gas tight door as to be made at the same dimensions as the door of Krema 2. Pressac p. 434

              “… order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door 100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame. ”

              So stop playing games!

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 1:06 pm

              • If you are claiming that these gas-tight doors had peepholes built into them, and were used for peering inside the gas chamber full of hundreds of naked victims, then how did the SS prevent the glass inside from steaming-up instantly once the door was closed and sealed shut ?

                Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 1:46 pm

                • Its a peephole, you aren’t just going to break it with your finger you know. This also doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a cover around the glass. The Delousing chamber door has a cover.

                  There is a reason why Pressac makes reference to this door of being an example of what Auschwitz door would look like. And I am not saying its a wooden door, it was most likely made of metal. So were not playing this game.

                  Also I never claimed it was for seeing into the room. Its a document, do you not understand this? I have not claimed there to be a peep hole Tal.

                  Also how is the glass going to fog up instantly? Well? Are you asking about in winter conditions or are you asking about the whole time? Ether way you would have to prove the glass would fog up. Also there wouldn’t be any steam inside this room from what I’m aware of… sure sweat is water based, but people can still stand in 70 degrees for a while before sweating gets to intense. Not to mention exposure is 15 min.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

                • My granddad was a Haupsturmbannfuhrer, who served in the Totenkopf SS Regiment. And his job involved the smooth and efficient running of one of the gas chambers.

                  He always used to tell me that the peepholes in the gas chamber doors were useless, because after the doors were closed and hermetically sealed, then the glass on the inside of the peephole would immediately steam up with condensation, so you could not see when the victims had all died of gas poisoning.

                  This problem actually caused quite a headache for my poor granddad, and he tried several methods to overcome it – but none worked!

                  He first attached a miniature windscreen wiper to the inside of the peephole glass and operated it from an electric switch placed just outside the door. But the inconsiderate Jews would always tear off the wiper as they began to panic and struggle inside the chamber.

                  The next method he tried was to hand out a piece of cloth to the last naked inmate to enter the chamber, and order him or her to constantly wipe the peephole glass for him to see inside. But for some reason or another the Jew didn’t do as he was told, and soon abandoned the task after just a couple of wipes. In fact, one old Rabbi wiped the peephole glass just once; peered straight out at my granddad; poked his tongue out; placed his thumb on his nose and waved his fingers, before disappearing behind the misted glass. My granddad was appalled by such rudeness – is this the thanks I get for helping the Jews reach their final solution.

                  The third method was to remove the peephole altogether and replace it with a little hatch which opened outwards. My granddad then ordered the sondercommandos to line up outside the door, and every two minutes the next one in the line would open the hatch, quickly peer inside, and shout out if they were still alive. That guy would then drop down dead from Zyklon-B poisoning, and the one behind him in the line would swiftly close the hatch and wait two minutes for his turn to perform exactly the same procedure. Unfortunately one of the sondercommandos was cack-handed and couldn’t get the hatch closed, which meant that Zyklon-B was escaping from the gas chamber like air from out of a burst tyre. All the slave workers and SS men – including my Granddad – fled in panic, and no one could get near the chamber for days afterwards.

                  The fourth idea that was tried unsuccessfully, was to tie a rope around one of the sondercommandos; put a gas mask on his head, and dangle him down inside the wire-mesh column along with the Zyklon-B pellets. The idea being – that when all the victims were dead he would pull twice on his rope to let the SS guard know so as to haul him back up again. But that didn’t work, because the sondercommando went into a panic and was pulling like billy-o on the rope to be let out. Once he was he released, he was found to be absolutely ga-ga and jabbering wildly. My granddad then had to summon a coupe of stretcher-bearers to carry him away to Doctor Mengele’s weird and wacky freak-show hospital.

                  The fifth method he tried was really a hopeless one. He put on a doctor’s stethoscope and went round the outside of the gas chamber, checking the walls to try and hear if any human sounds were emanating from within. But my granddad told me bluntly – “you couldn’t hear beggar-all if they were dead or alive.”

                  Eventually my granddad reported the problem to the Camp Kommandant, who said not to worry if they were dead or alive – just shove ’em in the cremation ovens. But my granddad said you can’t do that, because the ones who are not dead might revive and start fighting and struggling in the crematorium. You would have a situation where the dead, the nearly dead, and the poor sods still alive, would be at each other throats trying to prevent one-another from being pushed into the ovens.

                  So the Kommandant told him to use his pistol and shoot anyone who still seemed to be alive after the gassing. But my granddad thought this was rather a crazy idea. What would be the point of cramming people inside a chamber and gassing them, but then finding out that 10 or 20% of them still had to be shot as well. You might as well shoot everyone individually as they came through the undressing room door, and thus save a lot of time and effort in packing them into the chamber, gassing them, dragging the bodies out, and checking each one to see if they were still alive.

                  The problem was eventually resolved – but not very satisfactorily – by leaving the Jews who were still alive inside the gas chamber for the next batch to arrive, and thus they were gassed twice.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 2:30 pm

                • That’s cute, Talbot.
                  Did you get the idea while drinking your denier Kool-Aid? Dentures in or out?

                  It’s good that you resort to humor. Frankly you don’t bring anything else.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 2:35 pm

                • “My granddad was a Haupsturmbannfuhrer, who served in the Totenkopf SS Regiment. And his job involved the smooth and efficient running of one of the gas chambers.”

                  Oh really? Then why in the hell do you not believe the event happened? You should have a first hand account right in-front of you.

                  “He always used to tell me that the peepholes in the gas chamber doors were useless, because after the doors were closed and hermetically sealed, then the glass on the inside of the peephole would immediately steam up with condensation, so you could not see when the victims had all died of gas poisoning.”

                  Cute! Now again again explain the issue if they couldn’t see in there? I’m sure they could just listen for the sound to end, as described in the following testimony.

                  From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
                  [Quoted in “‘The Good Old Days'” – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
                  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
                  ————————————————————–
                  At another, later gassing — also in autumn 1941 — Grabner* ordered
                  me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
                  had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
                  openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
                  also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
                  As the Zyklon B — as already mentioned — was in granular form, it
                  trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
                  started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
                  them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
                  as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
                  was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
                  fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
                  higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

                  * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz

                  This one described there being a cover to the peephole, though I think this is from Krema 1. This is only a guess from the small number of people give, and the door for Krema 1 from what I am aware may have been different from Krema 2 and 3. We most likely will never know since we don’t have the door.

                  “He first attached a miniature windscreen wiper to the inside of the peephole glass and operated it from an electric switch placed just outside the door. But the inconsiderate Jews would always tear off the wiper as they began to panic and struggle inside the chamber.”

                  That’s cool! To bad I don’t know of any testimonies which mention the issue of steam on the glass and this wiper inside the gas chamber. In fact it sounds way to hard to believe! you know why? Because no other testimonies mention it. As well I have seen no evidence of this testimony.

                  I’m pretty much just done with it here. To much to respond to. Sorry Tal.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 4:49 pm

                • Jeff and Click – the entire gas chamber scenario is absurd. It is pure fantasy. The misting-up of the peepholes in the doors is simply just another piece of mounting evidence that mass exterminations could never have happened at Auschwitz / Birkenau in the manner that is described.

                  You would both be better advised to look into what really occurred in this vast complex of camps in southern Poland. I’m quite certain that conditions there were grim at times, especially as the war turned against the Germans, and waves of typhus and other diseases swept through the complex. You should turn your attention to the Ghettos, the Deportations, and the Selections, where families were split up, and many children never saw their parents or loved ones again.

                  But you seem to be completely immersed in a non-existent extermination legend that has grown up from out of wartime propaganda; rumour and hearsay; plus the extremely dubious war crimes tribunals and trials.

                  I implore you both to cease this worthless campaign of trying to convince people who read this website that there was a Nazi extermination program being undertaken at Auschwitz. For all your efforts, you haven’t managed to convince anyone at all – no one has written in to say “well, that Jeff K and that Click have certainly produced conclusive evidence of genocide, and I am now a firm believer in the holocaust.”

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 6:10 pm

                • “Jeff and Click – the entire gas chamber scenario is absurd. It is pure fantasy. The misting-up of the peepholes in the doors is simply just another piece of mounting evidence that mass exterminations could never have happened at Auschwitz / Birkenau in the manner that is described.”

                  Wow, one small detail. How amazing.
                  You don’t have an answer for the documents I’ve posted. You don’t have an answer for the documents that Click posted.
                  I think real history wins here.

                  “You would both be better advised to look into what really occurred in this vast complex of camps in southern Poland.”

                  Let’s see, I’ve read KL: History of the German Concentration Camps, Auschwitz: A New History, the Years of Extermination, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka: the Operation Reinhard Camps, HC’s Rebuttal of Mattogono and Graf, I’m a regular visitor to Holocaust Controversies, The Holocaust History Project, I’ve read Van Pelt and Pressac. I have more PDFs than I have time to get to.
                  I think I’m pretty well versed.

                  “I’m quite certain that conditions there were grim at times,”

                  That’s an understatement.

                  “especially as the war turned against the Germans, and waves of typhus and other diseases swept through the complex. You should turn your attention to the Ghettos, the Deportations, and the Selections, where families were split up, and many children never saw their parents or loved ones again.”

                  I know all about it. Add in the mass executions and you’d have it as well.

                  “But you seem to be completely immersed in a non-existent extermination legend that has grown up from out of wartime propaganda; rumour and hearsay; plus the extremely dubious war crimes tribunals and trials.”

                  I’ll tell you what, Talbot. Prove to me what happened to the Jews sent to the Reinhard Camps, plus the million or so Jews gassed or otherwise died at Auschwitz-Birkenau and I promise to become a denier.

                  “I implore you both to cease this worthless campaign of trying to convince people who read this website that there was a Nazi extermination program being undertaken at Auschwitz.”

                  I’m not doing this for you. Or Jim. Or Hermie.

                  “For all your efforts, you haven’t managed to convince anyone at all – no one has written in to say “well, that Jeff K and that Click have certainly produced conclusive evidence of genocide, and I am now a firm believer in the holocaust.”

                  No, though I enjoy forcing you to look at evidence….that you can’t refute.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 6:37 pm

                • Not of issue Tal. The argument is well over, the German’s would only have to wait for people to quiet down. If the people somehow brake the glass there is a cover. Perhaps you don’t understand the idea of a cover and thick glass, but that’s pretty much the end of the issue.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 7:52 pm

          • Judas H. Priest! This shits gettin worse than the damn Dems and Repubs going at it. Everyone is going nowhere fast. This shit is getting to the point,it’s like watching the Keystone Cops. Split the difference and figure this out. This shit ain’t never gonna get resolved. I’ve told everyone,I’m in the middle on this. I can’t get enough facts,to decide one way or another. I’m asking both sides here for facts. Both sides have facts and both sides have BS. I’m still trying to figure out what a “non lethal gas chamber is”. Nobody wants to say. That leaves me to come to my own conclusion. If nobody was gassed,why would you need a “lethal and non lethal” gas chamber? On the other hand,I’m waiting for someone to say what the soldiers AIT was for operating the gas chamber. Running a gas chamber ain’t OJT. I don’t give a shit what anyone says. You’re gonna have to be trained to that. Now if there’s no training for operating a gas house,then that’s not gonna look like there were any gas houses. See where I’m going? I got one thing that makes me think this happened. Then I’ve got another thing that contradicts,me thinking it happened. Finally something else surfaced today that ain’t old news. A document dealing with air tight doors. Thank you Jesus! We’re finally getting somewhere. For once the t4 and showerhead BS,is outta the spotlight. However an airtight door still ain’t gonna be enough evidence to prove anything. I’m pretty sure a first year law student could shred that in seconds. Like I said,I’m trying to figure all this out,but it’s impossible with just a few obscure facts

            Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 1:58 pm

            • I actually think the Holohucksters that are posting here are just here to waste people’s time.
              My philosophy on life is this…. if people want to believe that six million Jews were killed in homicidal gas Chambers, shooting them, electrocuting them drowning them, whatever then, fine I don’t believe it.
              We don’t stop you with your b******* but yet you Holohucksters ban us in 19 countries today for discussing the matter so that really says it all doesn’t it. You have your say but we can have ours.
              Then you have the nerve to come on this forum and ridicule us here asking us to prove there wasn’t a holocaust when it’s really your position to prove there was pretty sly move if you ask me….. Obviously you’re just misinformed people working for the HoloHoax lobby, and you will do everything within your power to ridicule those who expose your HoloHoax scam. I get it, it’s your duty.
              Well the good news is we’re not going to stop you from putting your poison up here and you haven’t been able to stop us…….some day maybe.
              As with most of the Holohoax lies …when the legend is accepted as fact print the legend.

              JR

              Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 2:56 pm

              • This entire post completely opinion based. I can agree with a good amount of it, but perhaps you should understand that this is what Anti-Revisionists advocate…

                Not once have I or Jeff said that revisionist don’t deserve the right to speak. I have told you to shut up but only cause you are and idiot and not willing to listen to reason, but that’s about it. You can continue to post your videos, just don’t say stupid stuff in them or dress up like a Jew to advertise your website. And I’m not telling you to do this cause I’m trying to restrict you. I’m telling you this so your not banned off YouTube again.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 9:19 pm

                • Clickhead…..

                  My videos are banned in 19 countries…..Go figure.
                  I wonder why?

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 9:26 pm

                • Guess what Jim! Memory laws do not just effect you guys, they also effect people who deny the holodomor.

                  In Switzerland a man was charged under hate laws for denial of the Armenian Genocide.

                  “The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that Switzerland violated a Turkish politician’s right to freedom of speech by convicting him for rejecting the claim that the 1915 Armenian killings in the Ottoman empire constituted a genocide.”

                  http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/europe-court-backs-reject-armenian-genocide-151015104909932.html

                  Stop acting like it’s just you guys are being charged. Grover Furr is in the same case as Carlo. So just stop it with the memory laws. If it somehow means the holocaust happened then it also means the Holodomor never happened.

                  Not to mention you dressed up as a Jew to advertise your website, it is obviously offensive and violates YouTube policies.

                  So go figure, your channel was blocked in Europe just like some of Grovers videos and your channel taken down cause it violates YouTubes copyright laws. Perhaps your not aware but YouTube is infested with denial videos they are not getting banned. You know why? Cause they are not violating YouTubes rules.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 9:40 pm

                • Here’s a quick correction for click.

                  *So go figure, your channel was blocked in Europe just like some of Grovers videos and your channel taken down cause it violates YouTubes [Terms of agreement].

                  Comment by Lóegaire — June 22, 2016 @ 11:04 pm

                • “Not once have I or Jeff said that revisionist don’t deserve the right to speak. I have told you to shut up but only cause you are and idiot and not willing to listen to reason, but that’s about it”

                  I am against Holocaust denial laws, at least the way they are interpreted.
                  My feeling on this is as long as someone doesn’t threaten or encourage violence their right to speak is protected.
                  I also think that every time someone like Faurrison or Rudolf is arrested it just draw attention to their beliefs.

                  Incorrect history needs to be combatted with the truth, not prison time.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 8:33 am

                • Its best described forbidden fruit for outcasts.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 10:34 am

              • Well that’s a good point. Like I said,Zimbabwe just trying to hear both sides. I’m guessing there came a point in time,when you didn’t accept what history told you about everything on this subject . The only thing I can agree or disagree with history on,is Nam. I mean I figured out pretty damn quick,everyone was full of shit and i was stupid enough to get sucked into the lies of that war. I just adopted the attitude after that,I was gonna research everything on my own,before I came to a conclusion. There’s just so much information out there,I don’t know where to start. I’m big enough to admit I need people to point me in the right direction. Sometimes I agree with one side,the other time I may not. I agree with some of your videos. You put them together and present them in an understandable way. I’ve also found some videos out there where the folks that are for the holo,make good points. When I first found this site,I thought it was just a bunch of Jew haters. I started reading it and figured out this site was for people that have a hard time believing the holo happened. With that,I figured the holo may not be what they claim it was. So I’ll listen to both sides and try to come up with my conclusions. I listen to everyone here. It’s just this shit gets confusing as hell.

                Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 9:44 pm

    • Do I need to bring the documents right here now? Drop playing games Jim. Just admit you do not care about real history, just like how you do not care about how smash-able teeth are. You have less research into this then Anon does and that’s far from good. You ignore a document which clearly says Gas Chamber on it in German.

      “Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden betonieren in Gasskammer[!].”

      Why does a Fucking Krema need shower heads Jim? are you going to continue your mindless game?

      “1 gasdichte Tür, 14 Brausen” Translation [1 gas door, 14 shower-heads]

      Are you also going to ignore this one? You do know the translation to Vergasungskeller right? “Gassing Cellar”

      “There was a very clear policy; words like gas chamber would not be used. The letter of Bischoff of the 29th of January, is a kind of exception in this, because it is a letter which is written by a person who manages the whole operation, and who himself had established a policy that you would never use the word ‘gas chamber.’ Somebody in the architecture office underlined the word vergasungskeller, literally ñgassing basementî, and put on top a note: “SS Untersturmfuhrer Kirschneckî exclamation mark. Which means, Kirschneck should be informed about this slip. And it doesn’t occur after that. The Nazis were the first Holocaust deniers. Because they denied to themselves that it’s happening.”

      -Van Pelt

      Here is another one from Pressacs book. Page 503

      http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/image_files/503.01.jpe

      Here is the translation to what Is underlined.

      “It has not yet been possible to remove the shuttering from the reinforced concrete ceiling of the corpse cellar because of the frost. However, this does not matter because the gassing cellar can be used for the purpose ”

      Your belief is completely based of ignorance and idiocy, and you see why I don’t insult Tim or Talbot? Because they at least use REASON. You use Blind Faith.

      They ask for resources, and they answer with resources. Not poorly insult people like a flat earther by changing something or adding to their name. You dismiss everything that disagrees with you as Jewish made, but you demand that the Jews prove the holocaust. How in the hell does this work Jim? How does you reasoning and your idea that smashing teeth is hard to do work? Let me guess the following documents are not enough for you? are they? Here are 3 more which push for the idea of gas chambers at Auschwitz, all taken from Mr death.

      “26th of February 1943, 20 after 6:00 p.m. Telegram to Topfwerke Erfurt.
      ‘Send immediately ten gas detectors. Invoice us later. Signed, Pollok, S.S. Untersturmfuhrer.”

      “Auschwitz, 6 March 1943. Subject: Krematoria 2 + 3. ‘In accordance with your suggestion, Cellar I should be preheated. At the same time we would ask you to send an additional quotation for the modification of the air extraction installation in the undressing room.’ S.S. Sturmfuhrer, Bischoff.”

      “31st March 1943. ‘Three gas tight doors have been completed. We remind you of an additional order for the gas door from Krematorium III. This must be made with a spy-hole, with double 8 millimeter glass. This order is particularly urgent.’ Signed, SS Major Bischoff.”

      Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 12:16 pm

      • You Holohucksters are just plain hopeless I’m not going to debate this anymore with you it’s taking too much of my time to try to explain logic to people that believe nonsense.

        For the record about your T4 topic Hartheim Castle
        Inside the gas Chambers p 150
        For example, one or one and a half million people are claimed to have been
        murdered at Hartheim Castle– a figure which appears twice, for good
        measure. Elsewhere there is even talk of a figure as high as four million while literally ten million victims are ascribed to the area of Warsaw.
        LOL…..no there’s more…..
        P152
        It must be said that the U.S.-Americans were no less eager to spread
        mere propaganda. In the official report by the Prosecutor of the Third Ar-
        my about Mauthausen and its subcamps, date 17 June 1945, one reads:
        “The total count of victims is impossible to estimate, but with
        HARTHEIM Castle (a building used for mysterious disposal of people),
        (See Exhibit 213,) almost 2,000,000 are counted from the German Rec-
        ords themselves.”

        Just plain nonsense

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 12:23 pm

        • “You Holohucksters are just plain hopeless I’m not going to debate this anymore with you it’s taking too much of my time to try to explain logic to people that believe nonsense.”

          You have no logic, you just feed yourself with a spoon-full of rubbish and call if fact. I have shown plenty of documents and this is all that needs to be said.

          “For the record about your T4 topic Hartheim Castle”

          Hartheim operated past the T4 program, you fucking fool! Hitler shut down this program after public outrage! The people that died here also didn’t just die in the gas chamber, they were also shot.

          “Inside the gas Chambers p 150
          For example, one or one and a half million people are claimed to have been
          murdered at Hartheim Castle– a figure which appears twice, for good
          measure. Elsewhere there is even talk of a figure as high as four million while literally ten million victims are ascribed to the area of Warsaw.”

          And what credentials does the writer of Inside the gas chambers have? Cause from what I remember the writer was not a Historian of Hartheim… Stop pulling out stuff from survivors and making nonsense of it to try and act like it supports your claims Jim.

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 12:51 pm

          • I’m done with your nonsense there is only so much I can take of people who have no common sense.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 12:56 pm

            • Says the guy whos ignoring documents which clearly state there was a gas chamber.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 12:57 pm

              • For the thinking people out there not bogged down with Holohucksters nonsense.

                From the book Auschwitz Plain facts
                A Hail Storm of Deceptions
                Let us linger for a moment on the story of the gassing of those 1,492 Jews in crematory II.

                In addition to the deceptions that I have just enumerated, it is worth noting that Pressac has, on this score, eliminated all the material contingencies that he finds awkward. The SS men cannot have poured the Zyklon B into four openings in the roof for the simple reason that no such openings existed – a fact that can be noted on site still today.
                Moreover, Pressac knows very well, from having read the documents that I published in 1980 (in particular, Nuremberg documents NI-9098 and NI9912,63 pertaining to Zyklon B and its use), that the members of the Sonderkommando could never have entered the gas chamber “after fifteen or twenty minutes” and, working in a space of 210 square meters (30 m × 7 m),64 undertaken the colossal task of shaving off all the victims’ hair, pulling out their gold teeth, removing their wedding rings and jewelry, dragging 1,492 corpses
                to a small hoist and incinerating those corpses in “two days” (p. 74). He knows that hydrogen cyanide gas, the main ingredient of Zyklon B, adheres
                strongly to surfaces, that airing it out is a long and difficult job (it takes nearly a day of aeration for a room at ground level with windows), that it is absorbed by the hair, skin and mucous and penetrates the body to the point of making
                the handling of cyanide-poisoned corpses a perilous business (contamination can arise from simple contact). Never could the Sonderkommando have entered a sea of hydrogen cyanide gas to remove, huffing and puffing, 1,492 cyanide-poisoned corpses. Even for those wearing a mask with a special filter (the “J” filter), any physical effort in the presence of hydrogen cyanide isruled out because exertion brings on accelerated breathing, which will draw the gas through the filter. For all the wind that Pressac’s ventilators might blow there, no ventilation system could have got rid, in a few minutes, of the molecules of poison adhering to the floor, the ceiling, the walls and the door, infused in the bodies or kept in gas pockets between the piled-up corpses. On this point, I refer to the technique used in the American gas chambers for executing a single convict with hydrogen cyanide gas.

                As for the incineration of 1,492 corpses in two days in a set of fifteen ovens (coke-fuelled and probably operating only 12 hours in 24), Pressac knows
                that it is impossible, since it would involve almost fifty cremations per day per oven (today, in France, a gas-fuelled and therefore much more efficient crematory oven can complete only three to five cremations in an eight-hour day).
                And then, in any case, where would they have been able to put the 1,492 corpses of the GASSED awaiting cremation? The author, to whom the question has been put so often, knows that there is no answer.
                But there is another question that comes to mind.
                According to Pressac, the four crematories of Birkenau had been turned into slaughterhouses. For example, in crematories II and III, the two rooms meant for the reception and storage of bodies arriving each day had been surreptitiously transformed, one into a vestibule or changing room where the Jews undressed (Leichenkeller 2), and the other into a gas chamber where
                those same Jews were gassed (Leichenkeller 1). If this were so, then absolutely no place is to be seen where the Germans might have been able to re-
                ceive and store the corpses of the one hundred detainees who died, on average,
                in the camp each day, particularly because of the epidemics that were precisely the reason why those crematories had been planned and built66 (and
                what is true with regard to crematories II and III holds equally, in other terms, for crematories IV and V). The problem is therefore the following:
                If the buildings called crematories were, in fact, nothing but slaughterhouses for the reception, killing and incineration of Jews, where, at Birke-
                nau, could the corpses of those who died of natural causes, and, in particular, those of the victims of the epidemics that ravaged the camp, be received,
                stored and incinerated?
                In other words: Where were Birkenau’s true crematories?
                Pressac bridles at the restraints of submission to facts and at the refusal of
                fantasy and lies that every historian, at least in principle, must impose on himself. He is much more at ease in fiction, particularly that of the novelist.

                No doubt….
                .

                Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 2:02 pm

                • Jim what happened to your no longer posting? Well?

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 2:12 pm

                • “For the thinking people out there not bogged down with Holohucksters nonsense.”

                  I can think quite well. For example, I knew what the T-4 Program was…..you didn’t.

                  I know that it takes less ZB to kill humans than lice…..you didn’t.

                  “From the book Auschwitz Plain facts
                  A Hail Storm of Deceptions
                  Let us linger for a moment on the story of the gassing of those 1,492 Jews in crematory II.”

                  Oh, goody. Another craptastic “Holocaust Handbook” moment.

                  “In addition to the deceptions that I have just enumerated, it is worth noting that Pressac has, on this score, eliminated all the material contingencies that he finds awkward. The SS men cannot have poured the Zyklon B into four openings in the roof for the simple reason that no such openings existed – a fact that can be noted on site still today.”

                  Wrong.

                  http://web.archive.org/web/20010302035524/http://www.revisingrevisionism.com/

                  “Moreover, Pressac knows very well, from having read the documents that I published in 1980 (in particular, Nuremberg documents NI-9098 and NI9912,63 pertaining to Zyklon B and its use), that the members of the Sonderkommando could never have entered the gas chamber “after fifteen or twenty minutes” and, working in a space of 210 square meters (30 m × 7 m),64 undertaken the colossal task of shaving off all the victims’ hair, pulling out their gold teeth, removing their wedding rings and jewelry, dragging 1,492 corpses
                  to a small hoist and incinerating those corpses in “two days” (p. 74).”

                  Wrong again.
                  The Sonderkommando had gas masks as needed and Krema II had an air exchange system…as noted by Pressac and Van Pelt.
                  There were also a lot of Sonderkommando to complete these tasks.

                  “He knows that hydrogen cyanide gas, the main ingredient of Zyklon B, adheres
                  strongly to surfaces, that airing it out is a long and difficult job (it takes nearly a day of aeration for a room at ground level with windows), that it is absorbed by the hair, skin and mucous and penetrates the body to the point of making
                  the handling of cyanide-poisoned corpses a perilous business (contamination can arise from simple contact).”

                  Wrong. For the third time.
                  As stated, the room had air exchanger to ventilate. Also, we are talking about a bare concrete room that was also sprayed with water after use.
                  Also, these bodies were not exposed long enough for the the ZB to penetrate to the level you are talking about. The victims died and the room cleared before that type of penetration occurred.

                  “Never could the Sonderkommando have entered a sea of hydrogen cyanide gas to remove, huffing and puffing, 1,492 cyanide-poisoned corpses. Even for those wearing a mask with a special filter (the “J” filter), any physical effort in the presence of hydrogen cyanide isruled out because exertion brings on accelerated breathing, which will draw the gas through the filter. For all the wind that Pressac’s ventilators might blow there, no ventilation system could have got rid, in a few minutes, of the molecules of poison adhering to the floor, the ceiling, the walls and the door, infused in the bodies or kept in gas pockets between the piled-up corpses.”

                  Yes, they could for the reasons stated above.

                  “On this point, I refer to the technique used in the American gas chambers for executing a single convict with hydrogen cyanide gas.”

                  Apples and oranges, Jim. The SS overseers didn’t care about the well being of the SK’s. They were an expendable work force.

                  “As for the incineration of 1,492 corpses in two days in a set of fifteen ovens (coke-fuelled and probably operating only 12 hours in 24), Pressac knows
                  that it is impossible, since it would involve almost fifty cremations per day per oven (today, in France, a gas-fuelled and therefore much more efficient crematory oven can complete only three to five cremations in an eight-hour day).”

                  This was more in the nature of an incinaration, not a cremation. These victims were naked without a coffin. You are confusing “incinarations” with “cremations.” The SS didn’t care about keeping the bodies or ashes separate.

                  “And then, in any case, where would they have been able to put the 1,492 corpses of the GASSED awaiting cremation? The author, to whom the question has been put so often, knows that there is no answer.”

                  They could put the bodies wherever needed.
                  At times of high numbers of gassings (like the Hungarian Action) pits were used to incinerate corpses.

                  “But there is another question that comes to mind.
                  According to Pressac, the four crematories of Birkenau had been turned into slaughterhouses. For example, in crematories II and III, the two rooms meant for the reception and storage of bodies arriving each day had been surreptitiously transformed, one into a vestibule or changing room where the Jews undressed (Leichenkeller 2), and the other into a gas chamber where
                  those same Jews were gassed (Leichenkeller 1). If this were so, then absolutely no place is to be seen where the Germans might have been able to re-
                  ceive and store the corpses of the one hundred detainees who died, on average,
                  in the camp each day, particularly because of the epidemics that were precisely the reason why those crematories had been planned and built66 (and
                  what is true with regard to crematories II and III holds equally, in other terms, for crematories IV and V). The problem is therefore the following:
                  If the buildings called crematories were, in fact, nothing but slaughterhouses for the reception, killing and incineration of Jews, where, at Birke-
                  nau, could the corpses of those who died of natural causes, and, in particular, those of the victims of the epidemics that ravaged the camp, be received,
                  stored and incinerated?”

                  As needed the camp turned to pit burning, as stated.

                  “In other words: Where were Birkenau’s true crematories?
                  Pressac bridles at the restraints of submission to facts and at the refusal of
                  fantasy and lies that every historian, at least in principle, must impose on himself. He is much more at ease in fiction, particularly that of the novelist.

                  No doubt….”

                  More denier crap.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 2:24 pm

                • “In addition to the deceptions that I have just enumerated, it is worth noting that Pressac has, on this score, eliminated all the material contingencies that he finds awkward. The SS men cannot have poured the Zyklon B into four openings in the roof for the simple reason that no such openings existed – a fact that can be noted on site still today.”

                  And yet Pressac still said the following when he tried to help Faurisson.

                  Page 550

                  “In September 1980, Faurisson and Guillaume came to my place to assess the value of what I had been able to pick up in the Auschwitz Museum. I had admittedly been able to take many photographs, which I thought would help Faurisson form a more concrete picture of the site, but I had not been able to bring back any documents … verification meant trips to Poland and therefore extended over a period of months … It was therefore decided to devote all efforts to demolishing the Auschwitz gas chambers. If we succeeded in removing this cornerstone of the Birkenau edifice, the rest would collapse with it. It was a desperate solution, but the only logical one compatible with our resources. Faurisson was forced to stake everything on it. I was to redouble my efforts studying the documents concerning the construction of the Krematorien in the hope of finding evidence that homicidal gas chambers had never been installed in these buildings.”

                  “I nearly did away with myself one evening in October 1979 in the main camp, the Stammlager, overwhelmed by the evidence and by despair”

                  “Moreover, Pressac knows very well, from having read the documents that I published in 1980 (in particular, Nuremberg documents NI-9098 and NI9912,63 pertaining to Zyklon B and its use), that the members of the Sonderkommando could never have entered the gas chamber “after fifteen or twenty minutes” and, working in a space of 210 square meters (30 m × 7 m),64 undertaken the colossal task of shaving off all the victims’ hair, pulling out their gold teeth, removing their wedding rings and jewelry, dragging 1,492 corpses”

                  Perhaps Jim you could provide the impossibility what arises from this Nuremberg document. While the ovens may have only operated 12 hours a day this doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have continued to operate via removing gold teeth and Jewelry. Also mind that Pressacs book was not written off from Nuremberg documents as they are second hand to primary documents. There are exceptions to these documents though, such as translations of Primary resources. As for how it would be impossible to cremate these bodies you should most likely explain the Gusen time slip. Two muffles burned 94 corpse in 19 hours and 45 minutes.

                  Hell even Danny Keren does a good show that Carlo is wrong.

                  https://web.archive.org/web/20040319034555/http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/

                  Simple explanations put this to end unless you provide a link to this document or provide the page. I hate to link you this website, but its the only place I know which makes a direct comparison.

                  As well Carlos book has been long handled by HC. They never made a white paper on it though that would be an interesting read.

                  “that airing it out is a long and difficult job (it takes nearly a day of aeration for a room at ground level with windows), that it is absorbed by the hair, skin and mucous and penetrates the body to the point of making”

                  Great! Now we have to explain ventilation! Which has been long covered. From the pelt report, page 29.

                  “We know that Dejaco drafted the plan that transformed a mortuary into a death chamber. We know the specifications of the ventilation system that made the room operable as a site for mass extermination: seven horsepower is required to extract the Zyklon-B from the gas chamber in 20 minutes.”

                  And since you will not take Van Pelts report for anything, here is a quote from Chemistry is not the science.

                  “It is impossible, of course, to get an exact figure for how long it actually took to clear the air in the gas chamber. But we can obtain approximations through mathematical modeling. The equation used is a simple one: the concentration in the gas chamber is cut to 1/e, or about 37%, for each room replacement of air. Where C(t) is the concentration of HCN at time t in hours,

                  C(t) = C(0) (1/e)15.8t

                  This equation supposes that the fresh air mixes with the air in the chamber immediately and completely. In reality it does not do so. Ventilation systems are designed to have an air flow such that the expelled air has a higher concentration of poison, so this equation might seem conservative. In addition, the victims’ corpses take up space which has not been figured into any of the below calculations; this would reduce the volume and increase the replacement rate, again indicating that this figure is conservative. But blockages caused by the same corpses, and the possibility of laminar airflow, might work in the other direction. All in all, this estimate will suffice.

                  Using this equation, if C(0) = 900 ppmv, the concentration is less than 20 ppmv after just 15 minutes.”

                  http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

                  Adding the following up it puts the ventilation away as an issue, and plenty of water being around makes it quite easy for the commando so clean themselves off. None of your arguments have any value, and I guess your also going to argue the gas would take to long to release. To bad the gas chamber had heating. Page 115 of the pelt report.

                  “Cross-referencing this letter with blueprints of the basement of crematorium 2, Dawidowski concluded that the designation “ Vergasungskeller ” applied to morgue 1. He noted that the blueprints showed that the section of this morgue differed from that of morgue 2 in that the former was equipped with two built-in ventilation ducts on each side. Correspondence explained that these ventilation ducts were connected to a ventilator driven by 3.5 horsepower electric motor, and that the space was also equipped with a separate system for introducing warm air into it—an arrangement that made no sense if the space was used as a morgue (because corpses must be stored cold) but which made a lot of sense if the space was used as a Zyklon B gas chamber (because hydrogen cyanide, with a boiling point of around 27 Celsius, works much faster when used in a pre-heated space—an issue Dawidowski was to discuss at length later in his report). 96 Both eyewitness testimonies, blueprints and correspondence corroborated each other.”

                  The time it would take to gas the people and ventilate the room would take at most 45 min! I get this total by adding 15-20 min gassing time to the 20 min it would take to ventilate. I gave an extra 5 min to make up for any exceptions. As for cremating the bodies in 2 days… you know this would be 12 hours each in which it could operate correct? Based on documentation I can easily give the cremation time.

                  For 24 hour run time the Germans could cremate 1,440 people. Over the time of 48 hours they could cremate 2,888. They would need to run the oven over 24s a bit, as they would would only need to cremate 52 more bodies… We have 15 muffles which means 4 bodies in each for 1 hour. This would mean 60 bodies done in 1 hour. So we are at 26 Hours and 45 min. out of 48 hours…. Meaning they would have around 21 hours and 15 minutes to remove the teeth and rings, meaning if they were not cremating people at the same time they were burning people. Making the whole operation completely plausible. Since we know they were doing both at the same time they would most likely take 26 to 27 hours based on my math.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 4:04 pm

                • Click head….
                  Thanks for trying but pure nonsense
                  Like this Birkenau death tale…..
                  In a single 14-hour workday, 12,000 to 15,000  people would be killed at any one of these camps. The capacity of the crematoria at Birkenau was 20,000 bodies per day.
                  So which liar are you going believe?
                  Pick a number any number they all are lies….

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 4:10 pm

                • “Click head…. Thanks for trying but pure nonsense Like this Birkenau death tale….. In a single 14-hour workday, 12,000 to 15,000 people would be killed at any one of these camps. The capacity of the crematoria at Birkenau was 20,000 bodies per day. So which liar are you going believe? Pick a number any number they all are lies…. JR”

                  This is off from my math, I have provided sources not stop with the quotes from Wiki! also provide your damn sources! Sadly for you Jim one of us is here to not play games. This estimate is most likley based off from eyewitness testimony like the old reports I presented in our last talk. If I remember correctly you are quoting wikis article on “Holocaust Trains” which is never been a source I have used. Even Hoess in his testimony at Nuremberg put the max total at 10,000.

                  Not once have I said that I believe this and Not once have I claimed it to be true. Its only you creating a Stawman and you have still yet to disprove the documents from Crematorium 2 at Auschwitz.

                  Just like your Issue of Teeth this is only your stupid mind trying to play games. Do the world a favor and stop arguing against the Holocaust. People like you ruin everything for revisionism by speaking, as you are open evidence for the Idiocy of its logic. Tal is at least reasonable, and Tim is open to learning. Perhaps you yourself should pick up a damn book for once and read it past your Zundel like citations. I don’t mean one of your Holocaust Handbooks. I mean like a Raul Hilburg book, or a writing by pressac. A good place to start would be here.

                  https://archive.org/details/JCPAuschwitzTechniqueAndOperationOfTheGasChambers

                  You have not provided anything against what I have said at any point in time.

                  You haven’t provided your Nuremburg documents, which are said to support you.

                  You have only acted as a child in your refutations to Anon and myself as well. I do not understand how Jeff could argue with you at all since you put your trust into the writings of Leuchter religiously and refuse to listen to reason.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 4:26 pm

                • More truths…
                  Pressac Auschwitz Plain (NonFacts)
                  Page 100
                  7. Conclusion
                  Pressac thought that he had found a middle way between the exterminationist thesis and the revisionist thesis. His own thesis is, as we have seen, hybrid and weird: at Auschwitz, an altogether subaltern personnel of civilian and
                  military engineers and technicians had underhandedly converted innocuous
                  cold rooms for the storing of corpses into homicidal gas chambers, whose technique and operation the author is unable to set out for us in a scientific manner. Pressac’s chosen method of proceeding consists essentially in ignoring the material realities: the structure of rooms that can still be seen today at Ausch-
                  witz and Birkenau and that he dares to christen “homicidal gas chambers,” the dangers of using Zyklon B, the daunting difficulties in evacuating gas, the lack of any space to store the bodies of the gassed awaiting incineration, the
                  total absence of places to receive, store and incinerate the corpses of those
                  who died of natural causes (since the crematories intended for that purpose had, we are told, been transformed into chemical slaughterhouses reserved for the reception, gassing and incineration of the Jews), the impossibility for the
                  crematory ovens to burn so many corpses. His method of setting forth his case
                  also involves dissembling and cheating, especially in the use both of documents and of sources and references.
                  The result of his work is wretched. The single bit of somewhat interesting information that may be drawn from this book is that, according to Pressac,
                  the tally of (Jews) gassed at Auschwitz and at Birkenau was 630,000 and the
                  tally of dead (from 1940 to 1945) was 775,000, a figure rounded up to 800,000. This information is also devoid of any scientific value since nothing
                  is shown to support it. It only attests to the necessity of effecting a cut in the
                  usual estimations, a cut that is doubtless a prelude to further reductions of the same type in a relatively near future.
                  Of the 80,000 items in the archives in Moscow that were consulted or that could be consulted, Pressac has really used only one: an insignificant business
                  letter about gas detectors (Gasprüfer). I have reasons to believe that he has
                  passed over in silence the existence of items altogether favorable to the revisionist case; in particular, I think that he discovered in those archives some detailed plans of the Leichenkeller or morgues of crematories II and III, as well
                  as some detailed plans of the rooms in crematories IV and V that he has christened “homicidal gas chambers.” The Germans were never happy with mere general plans: the extraordinarily precise and detailed drawings of the Lei-chenkeller at Sachsenhausen that I personally discovered in 1986 attest to that.
                  At Auschwitz, we are told, the Germans committed a crime of gigantic proportions. A forensic study of the weapon that they allegedly used to perperate such an outrage is therefore indispensable. Today forensic studies are carried out on remains that are thousands of years old. That being the case,
                  why not make such a study of buildings or remains that are only half a century
                  old? If crematory I had to be considered, as we are told, “partly reconstructed,” how would that hinder a forensic study, were it only to determine
                  precisely which parts were original and which were reconstructed?74 As for the alleged “gas chamber” of crematory II, it is, under its collapsed roof, just
                  about fully preserved – a godsend for the experts. Instead of making a forensic study of some hair, some metal objects and mortar, as was done after the war, why not demand a forensic study of this place?
                  In publishing Les Crématoires d’Auschwitz, the authorities at the CNRS have put their backs to the wall. The book’s introduction promotes a “histori-
                  cal reconstruction finally free of the oral or written testimonies which are always liable to error and, in addition, are shrinking in number with the passage
                  of time.” The time has come to put this idea into action. If those authorities believe that they must reject all forensic work of specialists and independent laboratories which, since 1988, have come to uphold the revisionist thesis and
                  if, moreover, they have reasons, which they refuse to make public, to keep secret the results of the counter-study carried out in 1990 by the institute of
                  criminology at Krakow at the request of the Museum of Auschwitz, there remains for them the solution of undertaking their own forensic study, or of entrusting an international commission of experts with that task.
                  The greatest crime in history cannot continue to go unanalyzed scientifically: a thoroughly public study is needed. The judges of Nuremberg coolly
                  saved themselves the bother of conducting one, as have a good many others since, particularly those of the so-called “guards of Auschwitz trial” (Frank-
                  furt, December 20, 1963 – August 20, 1965); during their two investigatory visits to Auschwitz, those German judges did not even subject the presumed
                  crime weapon to scrutiny. That absence of curiosity was deliberate, as was the decision to prohibit the revisionist Paul Rassinier from attending the trial.
                  Of course, it is easy to see what the legend that has developed around the name of Auschwitz would lose from such a study, but there is no doubt that
                  science, history and justice would gain.
                  Here as elsewhere, the revisionists have opened the way; it would be enough to imitate them and set to work, seriously.

                  Amen!

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 5:52 pm

                • “Amen!”

                  Told you it was a Religious following!

                  I’m not answering anymore of your idiotic posts Jim. I have covered your shit already. You have proven idiotic, so stop quoting you damn books. They ignore clear documentation which I have shown you plenty of times. Run back to leuchter or follow your original plan of leaving. No matter what you have shown time and time again to have a blind faith following. So you can just shut up with your damn quotes. If you continue to provide quotes I will continue to quote the post I have made above to you. I think you should read it again, cause unlike Tim you do not understand documentation.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 5:59 pm

                • The feeling is mutual you’re a lost cause for the truth.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 6:23 pm

                • Your the lost cause, you have made up stupid assertions which have no value. Such as the idea you presented when we spoke about Auschwitz and its mass graves. You claimed it was hard to smash teeth, ends up that 2 children proved you wrong. You don’t research past Holocaust Handbooks. You have ignored documents which clearly state there were gas chambers. Then you tried to argue them as Fumigation rooms. To bad if this is correct then they would have exploded. Cause according to Leuchter the gas chambers would be at risk, which is something you try to push in your damn videos. Its called being Careless for a reason Jim, you don’t care about real history. I haven’t produced anything which would mean you would have to agree with me. I have only given things which clearly state you are wrong. I could continue to go on but you will just continue to post new quotes for ever until I literally refute the entire book. Then you will pull out another book and we will continue to do the same.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 6:31 pm

                • You don’t like my videos don’t watch them… I will continue to put facts up here and no debating with you. Jesus said do not throw your Pearls Before Swine. I hope I didn’t insult any swine out there.
                  The Holocaust is a scam anybody backing it up using the false information has to have their head examined so you can continue on with your course I’m not going to debate you.
                  You refused to comment on the Holocaust Survivors who have been lying from day one and yet you expect people to believe you and you don’t want to take those to task who have been lying for all these years. For some reason the Liers are not an issue to you.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 6:41 pm

                • “You don’t like my videos don’t watch them… I will continue to put facts up here and no debating with you. Jesus said do not throw your Pearls Before Swine. I hope I didn’t insult any swine out there.”

                  You can continue to post you videos, I do not intend on watching them. They are as Anon Described. Rubbish.

                  “The Holocaust is a scam anybody backing it up using the false information has to have their head examined so you can continue on with your course I’m not going to debate you.”

                  You have said this to everyone, and you already have. Your very poor at debating as well. You cannot be like Bradly Smith and call for “Open Debate” and Sensor Anyone whom argues with you.

                  “You refused to comment on the Holocaust Survivors who have been lying from day one and yet you expect people to believe you and you don’t want to take those to task who have been lying for all these years. For some reason the Liers are not an issue to you.”

                  Bullshit, I have told you plenty of times that early on reports during the war do not effect anything. You have blatantly ignored documentation! Peoples memories conflate and I have been saying this since day one! You continue to act like I’m feeding false information but I have placed the documents for your entire view. You have seen them, even One which directly states “Gas Chamber” in German. I see no reason to continue and I have also told you plenty of times that people that lie about their story are shown to be false. I’m not arguing over the diamond girl cause she has been called a lier by scholars. I am not going to argue the people whom have been called liers by real scholars, not by Carlo or Graf… I have told you that liers will be revised out, and you fail to understand that scholars do not write off from these witnesses, they generally rely on the Germans who operated these camps. They are generally put first. This is why I’m not arguing this with past this point. I have explained it to you before, and I have told you to stop using Wiki as my voice. Its not. As well early on reports were based on 2nd hand testimony, perhaps you don’t understand this Jim, but that’s cause you are a idiot with no comprehension of how to treat testimony. If you have issues with how I work, then follow the exact same advice you gave me with your video. DON’T RESPOND.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 7:48 pm

          • Praise Jesus!Thank you Miss Click! You’re my new hero. Someone has realized this is going nowhere. Now since you know more than me,maybe you can help me with the questions I’ve mentioned here. You may not have the answers,but maybe you can point me in the right direction. To be honest,I still can’t say I’m any wiser about t4 or showerheads. There’s been a surplus of obfuscation here in this debate ( for lack of something better to call it). Thank you

            Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 2:40 pm

            • The only question I have seen from you was the one for documentation of gassings in operation T4. I have provided the only real gassing document that I have. Though I do have a photograph of the records from Hartheim is that helps. They would make up dumb reason for why people would die… Its quite strange. Its quite impossible to deny Hartheim. Though I would say that people that know little about it (Jim) are quite idiotic to deny it simply based off from the writings of a witness form a completely different place. I based on just off hand estimates I think it was something like 18,000 people gassed in T4 and another 20 to 30,000 post T4. This is gassing numbers only.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 4:11 pm

              • More nonsense….

                Hartheim Castle
                Inside the gas Chambers Book p 150

                For example, one or one and a half million people are claimed to have been
                murdered at Hartheim Castle– a figure which appears twice, for good measure. Elsewhere there is even talk of a figure as high as four million while literally ten million victims are ascribed to the area of Warsaw.

                P152
                It must be said that the U.S.-Americans were no less eager to spread
                mere propaganda. In the official report by the Prosecutor of the Third Army about Mauthausen and its subcamps, date 17 June 1945, one reads:
                “The total count of victims is impossible to estimate, but with HARTHEIM Castle (a building used for mysterious disposal of people),
                (See Exhibit 213,) almost 2,000,000 are counted from the German Records themselves.”

                JR

                Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 4:23 pm

                • I have already covered this. Perhaps you should follow steps like Tim and try and learn something for once. The writings here are old revisions or figures based on people who are not experts of the castle. I have explained already that it was an estimated based on a guess only.

                  According to Dokumente zur Euthanasie, p. 232 I am correct on the estimates for 1940 and 1941. His estimate was 18,269. My number was only 269 off.

                  Also since you love to quote wiki as a source for you idiotic thoughts it states exactly what I have said.

                  “In all it is estimated that a total of 30,000 people were executed at Hartheim. Among those killed were sick and disabled persons as well as prisoners from concentration camps. The killings were carried out by carbon monoxide poisoning.”

                  I said 20 to 30 thousand… Perhaps you could stop linking these stupid books and read the actual work of historians.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 4:34 pm

                • Once again,not trying to throw a turd in the punchbowl,but I heard the Germans were immaculate when it came to record keeping. If that’s the case,how come nobody has ever pulled facts from the files?

                  Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:45 pm

                • The Germans might have been good at holding onto records, but they were just as good at destroying them as well. That’s why we generally only see documents coming from Auschwitz Construction office and not the main office. I also need to make a quick correction and I think I spotted where Blake was getting his Coke amount, I also think he ignored the total Coke used was 249/346. This is only if the number given under “Coke cart” is accurate or even the total amount of Coke.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 2:50 pm

                • You do realize the Russians are holding onto a lot of the documents and the not releasing them for people to investigate them and there’s a reason for that because the things that are in those documents are going to show that there was no Holocaust with the Jews that’s why they’re not showing these documents there is no reason why they’re not opening up these documents for people to look at. Obviously these documents show the opposite of what they’re trying to do push up on the public.
                  The Holohucksters try to make a big deal about the millions of pages of documents that were out there yet isn’t it interesting with all these documents you will not find one document that shows that Hitler ordered the extinction and the murder of the Jews not one out of all these millions of so-called documents I think we have a problem here wouldn’t you say. Oh that’s right,. I believe it was Hilberg who said they had a “meeting of the minds”. There’s no paper trail then obviously the Holohucksters don’t have a case and they can dream all I want.
                  If there was no gassigs then there was no Holocaust.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 3:00 pm

                • Jim, just cause the Russian archives are somewhat closed doesn’t mean that you cannot access them… Pressac accessed them, that’s where he got a good amount of his documents, but it’s not like they need to release them all… That’s thousands of records in which some and completely pointless compared to documents which I have shown you.

                  Exactly why you want to go through them is something I would question. Mattogno has been able to release his documents and has had no issues getting them…. The archives of these sites are quite open, which can be seen with Carlos 1990’s book on Majdanek, how else would he find the original blueprints to barracks 42. While no northern entrance existed it’s still something he found in the archive. It’s quite obvious that they don’t release them for the same reason they don’t release every document on the Holodomor, it’s a waste of space online and it doesn’t need to be done. It’s only cause your an Idiot that you believe this. It’s also the same reason they don’t release every document from the Napoleonic wars, just like they don’t release every document from the Holodomor, like they haven’t released every document on the Armenian genocide, just like they haven released every document from the early age of Japan.

                  It’s a waste of time and they will not let an idiot like you see them as you would brake them. Just like your argument against mass graves at Auschuwitz. I have presented enough which states gas chamber aka in the sense of murder at Auschwtiz. I’m quite sorry to say Jim, but no one here is going to say you have an unbiased knowledge other then FG, Tim has acknowledged you have been at Jeffs throat throughout this entire thing. I’m not saying that Jeff and Tal haven’t done the same, but it’s quite clear there is no defending room. Your entire argument above has no basis and I’m quite sure not even Rudolf would make it. I’m sure you get your argument of no documents from Leuchter, but using his logic then we should expect the Delousing chambers to explode 53 times as bad as the gas chamber could according to him.

                  Now will you explain to me how my documents which you have seen have no value?

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 3:27 pm

                • You wrote: “I’m sure you get your argument of no documents from Leuchter, but using his logic then we should expect the Delousing chambers to explode 53 times as bad as the gas chamber could according to him.”

                  The “delousing chambers” were completely and totally different than the alleged homicidal gas chambers. I have a whole section on my website, which is about the delousing chambers compared to the alleged homicidal gas chamber.

                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/GasChamber/disinfection01.html

                  At the time that I wrote this, I was the one and only person on the Internet who was writing about the difference between the homicidal gas chamber and the delousing chambers.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 3:51 pm

                • The point was Leuchter was wrong, there is a difference between 56,000 ppm and 300 ppm. In fact there is a difference between 56,000 ppm and 16,000 ppm.

                  While there was a difference it doesn’t remove my point at all, the chambers were more likely to explode based off Leuchters logic then the gas chambers. Do you understand this FG? Or no?

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 3:59 pm

                • *delousing chambers

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 4:01 pm

                • Does that have anything to do with,”lethal and non lethal” gas chambers?

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 7:09 am

                • The non lethal gas chambers were the gas chambers at Dachau which were used to disinfect the clothes by killing lice with Zyklon-B. The alleged lethal gas chamber, that was allegedly used to kill the Jews at Dachau, was a shower room where water came out of the shower heads.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:51 am

                • Okay. I’ve got that straight. Once again I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here. I’m looking for someone to tell me what kind AIT did the guys went through for being able to operate the gas house. I’ve already said why they’d have to train to be able to operate these gas houses. The German military was a smooth running machine . I don’t see how there’s any way in hell,they would not train people to run the gas huts. I’ve mentioned before,that was a dangerous MOS. you get careless,you end up dead. I’m looking at it as something along the lines of being an ordinance person. Screw up there,it’s a good possibility you don’t get a second chance. Same goes for the gas huts

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 9:20 pm

                • Actually “everybody” has been going at it like a bunch of junkyard dogs. You left because you got sick of going over the same old ground . I left the conversation,because there was too much obfuscation.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 7:06 am

                • True

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 25, 2016 @ 7:26 am

                • Thats what I asked Miss Click too. I think Putin has them stashed at his summer home. If that’s the case,a person would end up dead,before those records ever surfaced. His KGB buddies would make sure of that.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 7:01 am

                • That makes perfect sense. Right before the Nips jumped us at Pearl,they were busy getting rid of docs at their offices there in Hawaii . During the Cuban missle crisis,the Ruskies were torching docs at their offices in DC when it got down to the wire. I have seen one thing though. The Ruskies seem to have a lot of docs on this subject. I don’t know,they keep them under lock and key at the Kremlin. Our good friend Putin may have them stashed at his summer home. I’m just saying they have all these docs and everyone else has next to nothing. What’s the Auschwitz construction office. You mentioned something about “coke”. The only coke I now of is,the soft drink,the mineral or the one that was my personal favorite back in the day,”Peruvian Marching Powder”( AKA “Blow”) So what is this “coke” you speak of?

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 6:57 am

                • Tim, we all know it’s not hidden in Putins place, obviously hidden in the old Jewish sector of Russia in the Far East.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 25, 2016 @ 7:53 am

                • If Vlad made that statement,I would believe first thing outta his mouth. Don’t get me wrong,I admire the hell outta the man. He don’t give 2 shits if people like him or not. He rolled up on the Ukraine. I heard there was a rumor he was going to invade Poland and Romania. He just wants the real estate back, that Russia lost when the wall fell. I’ve heard it said,Putin is “former” KGB. I have to laugh at that . From what I’ve heard,the KGB is like the Mafia. The only way out is horizontally,in a pine box (casket). For like the past couple years,Russia 153 nukes to their arsenal . Here in America ,we barely added 50 more nukes. I know that torqued Barry’s (Obama ) ass to no end, but Putin don’t give a shit if Barry like the added nukes or not. Like I said,I admire the man,he’s a tough customer . Putin is the Russian leader,Papa Joe (Stalin) would be proud of.

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 9:41 pm

                • I think we have enough when it comes to nukes… I believe If I’m correct we still out arm China and Russia.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 10:06 am

                • What country are you in? I ask because you said ,”we”, which might elude to you being American . Then again your name sits in between what looks like letters from the Cyrillic alphabet .

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:09 pm

                • I live in Ohio along the border of Michigan. I am a natural born citizen. I know very very very basic French and German… but that’s really it. Loegaire knows both french and English and lives north of me.

                  As for the writing to the right and left of Click, its just some writing that people use to form a butterfly. I am not sure what language it stems from.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 2:20 pm

                • Okay . You’re not a Ruskie. That’s all that matters. No. I don’t hate Ruskies,I just don’t trust em. At any rate.that writing looked like Cyrillic .

                  Comment by Tim — June 26, 2016 @ 2:59 pm

                • Your trust in Russians shows, and it’s quite humorous! but it is understandable.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 26, 2016 @ 3:36 pm

              • You ain’t been here that long Miss Click. I’ve asked a lot of other questions on other topics here. This topic I gave up on. It’s been used and abused worse that a street corner harlot. I’ve said screw it and moved on to greener pastures. I have two questions. They’ll both go in opposite directions. In the grand scheme of things,they won’t answer the main question. My first question was,” did the individual who ran the gas hit,get any training?” That was one nasty chemical he would’ve been working with. OJT ain’t gonna work there. You mishandle that compound and it’s lights out. I’ve said before when I went through basic we were exposed to tear gas. Now from my experience,tear gas don’t kill you. You’ll be hurling your guts out and crying a river,but you won’t die. If you’re gonna teach these guys just what this shit can do to you,you’d want a controlled environment. Expose a couple lab rats to the shit. It would just be totally irresponsible to not train these men on how to handle,use,clean up,etc. this shit. If you’re training people,wouldn’t you want the people who taught these students on trial? The other thing. There were 2 distinct descriptions here. “Lethal gas house” and “non lethal gas house”. Okay if gassing never took place,why would you need to identify the two? If one building was for dropping the clothes into to get rid of the creepy crawlers,then just call it the delousing chamber and leave it at that. No need to identify both buildings if you’re only using one to get rid of bugs. To me if you have to identify both buildings,seems like something may have been going on. Lack of a training program on how to gas,looks like nothing was going on . Bottom line,neither of these things would prove or disprove anything. I don’t think a defense or prosecuting attorney would go to court with just this evidence. Like I said,I don’t have an opinion one way or another. I don’t think I’m even close to having all the answers. Truth be told ,I don’t think anybody does. I know Hebs ain’t been the favored children in history. That seems to be old as time itself. I figure in order to understand this. I gotta understand why the Jews are hated. I’m not talking about over a couple things they may have done. Why some people hate Nixon and Johnson is fairly easy to figure out. The Jews just have to much history. I’m not the type of person that’ll get swept up in a furvor. I need facts before I can decide

                Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 4:48 pm

                • “You ain’t been here that long Miss Click.”

                  Trust me, I am well aware. I can also say that just making a list of the Questions will help a lot more then a huge explanation of what happened. Sorry I’m mostly guessing based on the fact I have just started to read your post.

                  “It’s been used and abused worse that a street corner harlot. I’ve said screw it and moved on to greener pastures.”

                  That’s a great analogy but it doesn’t exactly help. Your basically saying you put the T4 program aside as an Issue? Correct?

                  “Did the individual who ran the gas hit,get any training?”

                  If I remember correctly they learned from Tests and it was hand down knowledge. They did have a telegram from Reinhard Heydrich which was sent to “clear up all misunderstandings”. It is Nuremberg Document PS-1944. Im not sure which volume has it and which series. Its been a long time since I have seen it. Though Thhp has a translation here.

                  http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/quick-facts/special-treatment.shtml

                  I would go digging for it but I’m looking for Jims documents to give them a read. As you can see with my large reply post to him. Its not exactly done but I want to see how accurate his quote is.

                  “That was one nasty chemical he would’ve been working with.”

                  Its inside of a bottle so it would take a good amount of damage to leak.

                  These bottles were made by “Jennerwein und Brenner”. Here is a Quote from RM that Anon gave me… Its from a ‘debate’ on rodoh. The quote appears to be from Kranz book.

                  “There are no documents, on the other hand, that refer to the supply of carbon monoxide. After the camp’s dissolution, however, five bottles were found on the camp’s area, in which the Polish-Soviet investigation commission established the presence of this gas. According to the commission’s report, written in Russian, the bottles were dark red and had the numbers 10, 17, 44, 52 and 60. They bore the inscription: “Kohlenoxid. Bei 150 Atmosphären abgefüllt 8.7.42. Zenerwajn und Brenen. Berlin B.9. Getestet bei 225 Atmosphären. Leergewicht 75,8 kg. Volumen 40,6 Liter.” (“Carbon oxide. Bottled at 150 atmospheres 8.7.42. Zenerwajn und Brenen. Berlin B.9. Tested at 225 atmospheres. Empty weight 75.8 kg. Volume 40.6 liters.”). This marking indicates that the bottles were from the depot of “Aktion T4”. [Footnote: The members of the commission obviously did not correctly identify the inscription. It was probably meant to read “Jennerwein und Brenner”. The pressure containers pertaining to “Aktion T4” bore such company labels. “Jennerwein und Brenner” were cover names for Viktor Brack and Werner Blankenburg – leading officials of “T4”. The “T4″ personnel had at its disposal about 100 steel bottles, which were supplied by the branch Buss an der Saar of the company Mannesmann Röhrenwerke and filled with carbon monoxide at the I.G. Farben factory in Ludwigshafen. See Eugen Kogon et al (editors): Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas. Eine Dokumentation., Frankfurt a.M. 1983, pp. 52 f.; Ernst Klee, Euthanasie” im NS-Staat. Die “Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens, Frankfurt a.M. 1985, pp. 105, 168 f.]”

                  I don’t generally say to use websites, but if you want one with translated documents on Action T4 you can read them here.

                  https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocEuth.htm

                  Its really the only online resource collections of documents that I am aware of. Then again this is from a 5 min search.

                  “If you’re training people,wouldn’t you want the people who taught these students on trial? The other thing. There were 2 distinct descriptions here. “Lethal gas house” and “non lethal gas house”.”

                  There is a lack of records of names… Well pretty much with any portion of the Holocaust… And I’m not aware of any records/names that exist of people who trained the guards, and While I hate to say that putting everyone on trial is impossible.

                  “If one building was for dropping the clothes into to get rid of the creepy crawlers,then just call it the delousing chamber and leave it at that.”

                  As far as I’m aware this is what they did. With exception of gas chambers which were used for both or converted over to.

                  Also I have never said that Gassing never took place. This is Jim and Tal.

                  ” Lack of a training program on how to gas,looks like nothing was going on .”

                  How does lack of Training prove anything? I get that if they did it makes more things open, but anyone can teach a person to push a button. Its not like the T4 program had very complicated gas chambers. Its a bottle with a tube entering a room with piping which is pierced. Its like Majdanek.

                  “I know Hebs ain’t been the favored children in history.”

                  Yep, they generally are not liked.

                  “I figure in order to understand this. I gotta understand why the Jews are hated.”

                  Cause people need a scapegoat, and who easier to hate then one of the most hated groups in human history? From what I have heard its mostly from early bound Christianity. Not to offend you if you are a christian. A project a kid in one of my late year high-school classes was on Hesidic Jews. From what I remember it had something to do with the Jewish Wars under the roman empire.

                  “The Jews just have to much history.”

                  That’s what happens when you have a culture which has existed since the first civilizations.

                  “I’m not the type of person that’ll get swept up in a furvor. I need facts before I can decide”

                  Facts are not history, they are just a basic version of it.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 5:44 pm

                • I ain’t saying the t4 program is any more or less important that the rest of this historical event. It just got to the point that everyone is trading barbs with each other and I just get more confused on this subject . My point of view on lethal and nonletthal gas chambers is this. Why label the buildings if there were no gas chambers for the Jews ? I mean it seems to me, thar by labeling these buildings lethal and non lethal,is gonna say something about wether some Jews were bumped off or not

                  Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 10:08 pm

                • It’s not really like order can be established here. It’s a comments section of a WordPress. I didn’t exactly mean to come off that you were saying it was any less important.

                  What do you mean by label? You mean by be open with the extermination program? The question might be out of my grasp with the way you have worded it.

                  The thing is that gas chambers were used for Jews, just never directly labeled for them. The origin of most the gas chambers in operation T4 was quite clearly made for the gassing of the disabled and retarded. Later on though Jews were gassed at a few of these locations. At Hartheim Jews were sent generally from Dachau or Mauthousen.

                  The thing is these locations were a part of mass murder, and generally people map them out. Operation T4 is a portion of the Holocaust and is mostly the reason why these rooms are labeled as gas chambers, as well it was the origin in which most historians conclude Hitler saw that mass murder of the Jews was possible. If he could kill his own people in mass, then he could do the same to the Jews.

                  Operation T4 is the reason for the placement of the 7 death camps of Germany and the lack of a written order. That is why it’s important, as well people flaunt over world war 2. Pretty much if anyone invests enough time they will hear of Hartheim, as well these sites have more historical value then just the gas chambers, the operations that happened there are side stories depending which you visit.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 10:25 pm

                • Miss Click. I’ve seen where FG can post an article she’s put together and somewhere along the line,it morphs into some that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I try to ask questions,but everybody is off at each other’s throats,so I never get an answer. In the past I’ve asked questions about the trials. Why they didn’t put people on trial that would’ve clearly been charged with,accessory to murder. I’ve asked questions about the ghetto. Those are some to name a few. Everybody is locked in a fire fight. I guess that’s why nobody takes notice of my questions. I go off looking for the material myself. If I ask a question about something and FG has written an article about it,she’ll reply and say she wrote this about that. So at least I get some answers . You mentioned ,”label” . I think I used that word to reference,something I read about the gas houses. Like I said,I’m in the middle here. I don’t have enough information to make an informed decision. For the sake of argument,I’ll go along with the holo happening. I read somewhere there were 2 gas houses. One was “labeled”, non lethal. Here’s what raises a question with me. If the holo never happened,then why did these prisons feel the need to label one gas house as lethal and the other as non lethal. If the people that ran the camps had to make that distinction,then one of them must be used for gassing people. If neither one was used for that purpose,then why bother making the distinction. I’ve moved past the showerhead and t4 discussion. Obfuscation was the only thing I got out of that discussion. Everyone was at each other’s throats and I couldn’t make heads or tails about the discussion. So I moved on to the next subject.,hope that made sense. There’s a lot a outsider can learn here,but when everyone starts trading barbs,it’s next to impossible to judge some of the topics here,because everyone is going at it

                  Comment by Tim — June 23, 2016 @ 10:29 am

                • The point is rather simple, she can link things which are on topic, and while I do enjoy reading her post they don’t exactly solve the issues at hand.

                  I’m about to leave for somewhere so I’ll continue to read on the city bus.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 10:54 am

                • Tim…… if you really want a simple answer to your questions about the whole hoax it’s summed up right here….Gringauz quote explains it all
                  “Most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”
                  –Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p6.

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 11:08 am

                • I have already been over this you damn idiot, you need to test a memoir, I believe I also have explained how to find out how accurate a testimony is. So stop playing the idiotic care that you always do that human memories have to be 100%, you are the guy that said you stored everything in your mind then forgets where you placed it. Learn a thing or two about human memory, cause someday you may be hit by bad memory loss to where you cannot recognize people or remember something from a minute ago.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 11:14 am

                • That’s the one thing I’ve always questioned,survivors. I’m not calling them liars. They make some claims that I do have problems with. I’m not saying all people in that age bracket have faulty memories. My dad can tell you about his first bombing run he went on when he was in the South Pacific during WW2. He can tell me about us going fishing when I was real little,but not all people in that age bracket can recall that good. You could get two Jew inmates,that were at the same prison,same time and damn near experienced the same shit,yet their stories will be so far apart. It’s like this game I played when I was a kid. You sit in a circle and I told the kid to the right of me some facts about something. In turn,he’d tell it to the kid to his right. It went on like that through the whole circle till it got to the kid on my left. He’d then tell it to me. What he said to me,was not the way the shit started out when I told it to the kid on my right. Even back in the 40’s when the shit was fresh in everyone’s mind,how much of it was accurate? Human mind is funny that way. If something is to horrible,grotesque or unacceptable,the mind can block the shit. I’d like to know how much the courts relied on testimony of the vics,as compared to hard evidence

                  Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 3:10 pm

                • Tim do some research on the term false memory syndrome and the Holocaust you’ll find some interesting things about it. Most of these people were having nightmares of things that actually didn’t happen but influence them in there made up stories later. They actually believed what they were saying but the facts showed it wasn’t true.. In fact there’s a woman, Elizabeth Loftus that deals with the topic she’s a Jewish woman who wrote a book about it yet when it came down to the Jews and them explaining about the Holocaust and their thoughts with false memory syndrome she did not want to talk about it. She was asked to give testimony at the Zundel trial go to trial and she refused to do so because she did not want to incriminate her own people.
                  So here’s a Jew psychologist type of a woman who wrote a book about it showing many people in the world have the problem but when it came down to the Holocaust it wasn’t a problem she didn’t want to deal with it. She knew if they were put on trial under oath all they would embarrass themselves.
                  Most of the people that will testify about their experiences would never do it under oath because they know they would be lying.

                  Article about it
                  http://vho.org/tr/2003/4/Song456-458.html

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 24, 2016 @ 3:29 pm

                • Well the reason I bought it up,is because the human mind has safety mechanisms built in. I’ve seen where people will experience some really bad shit,the mind tends to block it out. Takes many years of therapy to bring it out ,so the patient could deal with it. I’ve stated many times here,I’m in the middle. I don’t have all the facts ( as complex as this topic is,I’m not gonna have all the facts any time soon). One thing I’ve noticed missing from the trials they have now days,someone giving testimony on the psychological effects,all this has had on the survivors. Hey if I was the prosecuting attorney,I’d be marching shrinks through the courtroom left and right. So far all I see the courts do,is go on about what laws were broken . The prosecuting attorney should be trying to gather as much sympathy for the vics as possible. Now I know sympathy ain’t gonna win the case alone. I just figure they’d want a shrink on the stand,to show how it’s effected the Vic(s). It would speak to the quality of life they now have,after going through what they went through. It’s demonstrable,that alone ain’t gonna win a case,but that will gather sympathy for the Vic . It just seems odd that something like that could make for one helluva a case for the prosecution,but I’ve yet to hear of it coming into the trials

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 6:43 am

                • No argument here mam. I realize one thing about this topic,it ain’t something that can be solved over night . I’ve said that Jews have been hated,probably since man learned to walk up right. History with whatever beef the world has with the Jews,goes back thousands of years. All of this goes together. I went to Nam out of high school. I thought it was the patriotic thing to do. I got there and it didn’t take long to figure out,my country played me for a chump. I pretty much figured out what went wrong with Nam,but a topic like the Jews could take years. FG writes some good articles. I know you 2 fight like a couple junkyard dogs,but Jimbo has made some good points. I can look over the facts and decide what BS and what ain’t . It’s when everyone goes at,I’m lost. I don’t know enough yet to make statements and be able to support them. So I try to figure out what y’all talk about.

                  Comment by Tim — June 23, 2016 @ 4:01 pm

                • It’s pretty simple, it’s called a scapegoat. It’s not exactly just something which has happened to the Jews, homosexuals have also been tossed into this category of a scapegoat. Communists have fallen into this area of scapegoat, the Romani has become a scapegoat in England before. It’s nothing new, and with the stereotypes of Jews existing for a long time makes them easy to blame. That’s why people have blamed them and tossed them out countless times.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 4:42 pm

                • As for what FG and I are talking about is if T4 used Carbon monoxide as a murder tool.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 4:43 pm

                • I gave up on the T4 discussion. Nobody wants to entertain the others point of view. I see you got out of the discussion. Actually the discussion was starting to remind me of my first marriage. Confusing as hell and not going anywhere. So I go back to trying to figure out why Jews are hated so bad in history. I’ve started reading Shakespears “Merchant of Venice” again. I saw the movie. Al Pachino played Shylock the Jew. The book doesn’t say why Jews have been hated so bad in history. It does show attitudes towards them. In one scene Shylock is spit on,for being a Jew . At the end Shylocks greed is what does him in. A loan can’t be repaid,so Shylock asks for a pound of flesh in court. He ends up not getting it,because it was not mentioned in the contract,that he could take the persons blood with the pound of flesh he’d get if the person receiving the money,were to default on the loan. Even though Shylock was the principle antagonist,he only appears in 4 scenes. I haven’t confirmed this,but according to Shakespear in the Merchant of Venice,money lending was one of the few things open to Jews in that time period. I would imagine that’s one reason why general population hated Jews. I’m not sure when Jews were tagged with for being greedy with money . That goes back to the bible. Christ ran all the money changers out of the temple. They were all Jewish from my understanding. I know at the end of Merchant of Venice,Shylock was converted to Christianity . I say Shakespear may have done that to piss off the Jews. Makes sense to me. I know prior to the 19th century,the character of Shylock was made up to have a big nose, when The Merchant of Venice was put on as a play. That’s stereotyping right there. Like I said,I’m trying to figure out where everything went wrong for the Jews . Merchant of Venice don’t really explain why Jews are hated through history. It kind of shows the attitude of people towards Jews. Wether the holo happened or not,that’s the jews swan song. The hate of the Jews seems to reach its climax in the 1940’s,but the hate for them,started long before that. People can give examples of how bad Jews are hated,but it don’t explain where and when it started. For people to understand something like the holo,they gotta figure out where all this shit started . That’s my view on it

                  Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 7:10 am

                • You wrote “… I go back to trying to figure out why Jews are hated so bad in history.”

                  I have written about why the Jews are hated on several blog posts, including this one:
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/why-jews-are-hated/

                  and this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/general-patton-and-his-attitude-toward-the-jews/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 7:18 am

                • FG, what should one expected from what you have written? I’m quite interested what your input might be, but I hope it’s not the old “they crashed the economy of where ever they were”.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 11:29 am

                • Trust me I left it cause Jim was unwilling to listen to reason, I’m more then happy to talk about it, but everyone here has such strict codes of evidence that they will just search out the things which don’t fit the others ideas, it’s they are not willing to put the time into giving both sides a read. Trust me I have read the 2nd Leuchter report, and I came out believing after some extra research that Hertheim had a gas chamber. If you can see I did talk with FG a bit, but it brings out the same response. “I’m what way does this change anything?” Kind of response from me and then the same exact link.

                  It was the early 1900’s with the release of the protocols of the elders of Zion this was pretty much the final straw, later on in time Russian secret police mass producing this book and it’s distribution in the Jewish lands of Eastern Europe. This led to pogroms in the lands of Russia, which Russian soldiers also took place in. That’s why you see early on writings like “the crucifixion of Jews must stop” in which they call the thing a holocaust. Though it’s meant to be considered a *potential* holocaust. Around this point in time around 1919 the Russians whites were releasing tons of anti-Jewish propaganda. This is where the Jewish-Communism Canard originated. These writings got so big in the 1930’s that even Hitler gives mention to it in Mein Kampf.

                  I have pretty much given my understanding of the origin of mass hatred of Jews, it could also be coming from Johns bible (correct me if I’m wrong). I have seen that one sited as a large origin of the hatred as well.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 8:34 am

  7. Tim…. honestly you really think I’m going to spend time watching Netflix or the History Channel or any other Jew run media Outlet out there about Hitler. Never going to happen…. they have things about Hitler that is so ass-backwards it’s hard to believe.
    I don’t waste my time with it I already know right from the start just by reading the title if it’s going to be any good or not because I would say ninety-nine and nine-tenths of these programs are just plain propaganda and b*******.

    Watch The Greatest Story never told and you’ll be on the right track about Hitler.

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 5:45 pm

    • That’s why I told everyone to “come to their own conclusion”. I don’t care if the Hebs run it or not. I still come to my own conclusions. I’ll say this. They might want to shelve it in the fiction section. I told you I don’t follow anybody. Yeah there’s plenty of sheep out there ,that are too lazy to form their own opinion. They’re afraid to make waves. If they don’t like my conclusions,”joke em if they can’t take a f–k.” I told you before, I don’t follow the crowd. I’ll listen to what they have to say ,if they don’t repeat themselves,but I’ll come to my own conclusion. Both sides here make some valid points,but it still don’t prove anything. Like the old adage,”shit ain’t always as it seems”. Humans are gullible as hell. Look at all the idiots that follow this guy that said he worked at Area 51. He reverse engineered alien technology. Whatever. I think this idiot just begs for attention. He reminds me of the junior who got his ass kicked every day,because the seniors were bored and wanted cheap kicks

      Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 6:05 pm

    • Jim, TGSNT is complete rubbish!

      Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:56 pm

      • Click wrote: “Jim, TGSNT is complete rubbish!”

        Not the opinion of jewishjournal.com…

        “Holocaust denial – becoming scarily reliable […] Accompanied by an American narration and dramatic music, those [TGSNT] films provide answers to every doubt that may arise while watching. They show documented proof to every single claim they make and are very convincing. They are also being sold on mainstream websites, such as Amazon, which provides them with another approval of authenticity.” – Noga Gur-Arieh, International holocaust day 2014: Holocaust denial – becoming scarily reliable, Jewish Journal, January 28, 2014.

        Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 5:19 am

        • I didn’t see any documents which support the idea of a polish invasion at Gleiwitz…. Also their idea that the poles wanted to invade past the border needs more refinement. Around this time in 1939 the poles were using similar maps to make argument on its western border claim. The maps were made to show that the old Polish border used to go past Berlin. Anon mentioned this on AH one time asking about it. I generally wouldn’t link something but if your interested you can look here.

          http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=221582

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 8:59 am

          • Click head….
            I guess I’ll just have to rely on the History Channel to get all my information about Germany and the war and all those type of things LOL
            You do know the victors write the history right?
            When the legend becomes accepted as fact print the legend.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 9:05 am

            • “I guess I’ll just have to rely on the History Channel to get all my information about Germany and the war and all those type of things LOL”

              1) Never said History Channel was my source now, did I?

              2) I never said you should rely on History Channel.

              3) Have you missed are last talk? I did mention a documentary by them but that’s about it. This was only cause we were talking about early reports.

              “You do know the victors write the history right?
              When the legend becomes accepted as fact print the legend.”

              So this would mean then the Mongols would have written everything about them right? Nope.

              This idea is old and stale. Its not of huge issue after time passes, historians learn more and documents are released eventually. And since you are from the Revisionist side you could explain the following document.

              “Fußboden Aufschüttung auffüllen, stampfen und Fußboden betonieren in Gasskammer[!].”

              I’m sorry to say Jim, but with your teeth smashing claim, it has been only you so far creating “Legends”

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 9:22 am

  8. The photo of the alleged “gas pipe” coming through the wall at Hartheim Castle looks suspiciously like a shoddy post-war reconstruction ( and where have we seen this kind of thing before! ). It looks to me as though a rectangular structure that was formerly attached into the wall at the corner of the room has been removed, and the pipe then built in afterwards.

    The diameter of the pipe doesn’t look wide enough for the purpose it is alleged to be used for ( gassing up to 150 victims at a time ). And where does the pipe come from anyway. How far does it extend on the other side of the wall.

    I searched high and low on the internet to find out what poison gas was allegedly being used to kill all the victims – but it soon became obvious that you could spend the rest of your life trying to find out this non-existent information – it could have been Herman Goering’s stale farts for all we know.

    It is alleged that up to 30,000 victims were put to death in this chamber – with over 18,000 of them being mentally and physically disabled. But, of course, this is just guess-work, because the records were never found ( how convenient! ). But the castle is not a particularly large structure for it to be used for the systematic mass murder of this number of people, and oddly, it is located right in the centre of the little town itself. I find it difficult to believe that this high total could ever have been murdered here in the manner that is alleged.

    It is claimed that the other 12,000 victims were concentration camp inmates brought here for gassing from Mauthausen and Dachau. Well, Mauthausen is not very far away from Hartheim, but Dachau is over 300 kilometres distant, and it would take almost 3 hours to reach there even using today’s roads.

    No – the evidence for massing gassings at Hartheim Castle is very flimsy at best.

    Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 5:36 am

    • The following little gem comes from the HEART website;-

      ” The Austrian Vinzenz Nohel was assigned work as a stoker (brenner) at Hartheim, receiving wages of 170 Reichsmark (RM) per month, plus a 50 RM family separation allowance, a 35 RM stoker’s allowance, and a 35 RM premium for keeping quiet. Further, “because the work [as a stoker] was very strenuous and nerve-shattering, we also received ¼ litre schnapps every day .”

      Isn’t that a splendid, and terribly important piece of information for us to learn, ladies and gentlemen – that they cannot tell us what type of poison gas was being used, but they are able to publish the salary, the daily allowance, and the exact quota of schnapps that was allocated to the staff who worked there.

      The HEART website goes on to say;-

      ” At least once a week a lorry left Hartheim Castle and drove to the Rivers Donau and Traun to scatter the ashes on the water. ”

      This is yet another piece of b.s. that no one can prove one way or another. But its quite typical of our holocaust friends to come out with this kind of stuff. They provide no details for us to verify, and of course, all the human remains are lost for ever, and thus no search for them can be carried out.

      HEART also claims;-

      “… it is impossible to calculate a definitive figure for the number of victims in respect of any of the euthanasia centres. ”

      Now why doesn’t that surprise me! – this is all par-for-the-course in holocaustianity. Don’t for goodness sake give the public any official totals, because they might find out that we are a bunch of despicable liars. Instead, just hand out some very high numbers – and then solemnly and authoritatively issue a portentous statement saying;- ” it is impossible to calculate a definitive figure. “

      Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 6:24 am

      • The surreal postwar interrogation of Viktor Hermann Brack – “the organiser of the Euthanasia Programme, Action T4” who allegedly later “conferred with Odilo Globocnik about the practical implementation of the Final Solution [at the Reinhardt camps]” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Brack) – exposed the un-German & laughable nature of the T4 gassing hoax. Some Allied ‘interrogators’ had patently persuaded Brack to cooperate with the victors and to repeat the victors’ horror story about Aktion T4 before a ‘court,’ but they had forgotten to brief him on the details of that story, what left Brack completely helpless and lost when asked about basic information such as the name of the engineer(s) having designed those alleged gas chambers.

        Nuremberg military tribunal, “Doctors Trial”, 1947:

        Q (Judge Sebring). In other words, were these [gas] chambers [of Action T4] not built according to some specifications, plans and specifications?

        A (Dr Viktor Brack). I can’t imagine that, every chamber was different. I saw several of them.

        Q. Do you know what department gave the order for having the numbers built? Was that your department under Bouhler?

        A. No. It was Bouhler himself.

        Q. And he gave the order to the various heads of institutions to install this chamber, is that correct?

        Q. Now, how would the heads of each of these institutions know how to install a gas chamber unless there were certain plans and specifications given to them?

        A. I never saw any such plan. I don’t know of any.

        Q. Would you know how to go out and build a gas chamber unless some engineer or planner had told you? Certainly I wouldn’t.

        A. I don’t know whether I would either. Presumably he called in an engineer.

        Q. That’s what I’m trying to say. What engineer or group of engineers was responsible for seeing that these gas chambers were built so that they would do the job they were supposed to do?

        A. There was certainly no group of engineers. I presume there was somebody at the institutions who had enough technical ability to do it. I don’t know.

        Q. Then, so far as you know, someone at one of these institutions would be told by Bouhler to construct a gas chamber and he would call the head of the institution then would call on someone, you don’t know whom, to go out and build the chamber Is that correct?

        A. That is how I imagine it.

        Q. Well, wouldn’t it make a considerable difference whether the chamber was to be constructed for euthanasia by carbon monoxide or by some other means? Wouldn’t there have to be some technical information available to the head of the institution so that he could give directions to his mechanic to build the thing to do the thing it was supposed to do?

        A. I must say honestly I really don’t know anything about that. I can’t judge.

        Q. Do you know whether or not any department of the government, under Bouhler, or under Brandt, or under anybody else, was responsible for seeing that the gas apparatus was installed properly?

        A. I don’t know, but I don’t believe so because I would probably have heard of it.

        Comment by hermie — June 20, 2016 @ 7:01 am

        • Well done Hermie – for researching that piece of fun from the IMT’s “Doctors Trial”. I note that there were plenty of words like “imagine”, “presume” and “I don’t know” banded about in the courtroom. My favourite moment came when Dr. Brack replied;- ” I presume there was somebody at the institutions who had enough technical ability to do it [i.e;- build gas chambers]. I don’t know “.

          But what is interesting about this exchange at the Doctors Trial, is that it differs from the earlier Nuremburg show-trial involving the Nazi leaders, because the presiding Judge here is actually asking pertinent questions and trying to obtain some hard facts as evidence.

          Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 7:35 am

          • Talbot wrote: “But what is interesting about this exchange at the Doctors Trial, is that it differs from the earlier Nuremburg show-trial involving the Nazi leaders, because the presiding Judge here is actually asking pertinent questions and trying to obtain some hard facts as evidence.”

            This specific Judge was patently certain that the ‘Holocaust’ was a real event (just like virtually everybody at that time, i.e. in 1947) and so he didn’t know that it was/is much better for the exterminationist case to keep the Holohoax as vague and fuzzy as possible in order to save it from its own inconsistencies, absurdities, nonsenses, countless holes (supposed to be filled with testimonies) and nonexistent evidence (supposed to be explained by alleged concealment measures such as genocidal code words and obliteration units having made mass graves vanish).

            Comment by hermie — June 20, 2016 @ 8:28 am

      • You quoted the HEART website on Vinzenz Nohel. I also mentioned him on my website at
        http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/Mauthausen05.html

        Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 7:23 am

      • Once again , I thought they said these folks were buried in mass graves,off the properties. Why worry about going to the river? This is ash. I’m pretty sure the wind would work wonders with it

        Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 8:33 am

    • You wrote: “the alleged “gas pipe” coming through the wall at Hartheim Castle looks suspiciously like a shoddy post-war reconstruction”

      I visited the Hartheim Castle and spent the whole day there, looking at everything very closely. I wrote about the alleged gas chamber at

      http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Hartheim/gaschamber02.html

      Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 7:32 am

      • Further Glory’s website states that the “gas pipe” that exists today at Hartheim is indeed a reconstruction – and is not the original one. In addition, it is claimed that carbon monoxide was used for gassing the victims. May I ask if you gained this information from the Castle Memorial Site itself – or from another source?

        You also describe a small room next door to the “gas chamber” called ‘The Technical Room’, in which it is alleged the poison gas was generated and fed through the pipe. Is there any information as to exactly how the carbon monoxide was generated and then somehow pumped through this extremely narrow pipe into the chamber itself?

        During your visit to Hartheim, did you see evidence of any remains of a ventilation system inside the gas chamber itself?

        Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 8:27 am

      • Okay was that pipe PVC? If it was,then it wasn’t there during that time frame

        Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 8:36 am

    • What happened to the story about these folks being hauled of in the gas vans and buried off castle grounds? The pipe looks like PVC. If it is,there’s you’re problem. PVC was first used in Germany. They figured it could carry fresh water and the water would be odorless and tasteless. The plumbing wouldn’t taint it. It was only used for residential purposes. New construction. This castle looks to be more along the lines of institutional use,rather than residential. If that is PVC,it looks to have held up well. Hardly any weathering at all.

      Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 8:29 am

      • Yes, I’m confused about whether they were using these alleged “gas vans” for the T4 program. The storyline over the years does seem to change into something different than what we had been told previously.

        Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 8:51 am

        • I wrote this about the T4 program on my website:

          Begin quote from my scrapbookpages.com website

          Karl Brandt was put on trial at Nuremberg in the “Doctor’s Trial.” In his testimony, Brandt said that the baby’s father, Richard Kretchmar, had written to Hitler’s office in early 1939, asking for permission to kill his blind and deformed son.
          End quote

          The following quote is from Brandt’s testimony:

          “The father of a deformed child wrote to the Fuhrer with a request to be allowed to take the life of this child or this creature. Hitler ordered me to take care of this case. The child had been born blind, seemed to be idiotic, and a leg and parts of the arm were missing.”
          End quote

          An estimated 8,000 deformed children were killed in the same manner, some without the consent of their parents.

          Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 10:30 am

          • I know you ain’t a believer FG,but from where I sit,the question as to wether a child lives or not,is not up to any human being. That’s Gods Decision. Yeah I’ll admit it’s not wether the child could contribute to society as an adult,but the quality of life the individual would have . Like I said,decision of life or death,is not up to us mere mortals. I mean if that’s the case,then where are we gonna draw the line? Sorry. I can’t get on board with this one.

            Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 10:45 am

            • You wrote: “the question as to wether a child lives or not,is not up to any human being. That’s Gods Decision.”

              The title of the exhibits at Hartheim Castle is “Wert des lebens” which means “the value of life” in English. This is also the theme of the Memorial Site, which promotes the concept that handicapped students should be mainstreamed in schools. The exhibits put the issue of the handicapped into a positive perspective; they are shown as being “worthy of life” and as people who should be treated with respect.

              Before sending each victim into the gas chamber at Hartein Castle, the Nazis took his or her photograph. Instead of showing the photographs of the pathetic, institutionalized people who were killed at Hartheim, there are now present-day photos of 3 handicapped students and two mentally or physically challenged adults who are allegedly leading normal lives.

              Long ago, the photos of the handicapped persons who were killed at Hartheim were available to be seen in a film that was on the internet. These photos can no longer be seen. The Jews now want you to believe that these were children, who had a minor handicap, but were killed because the Nazis were evil people.

              Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 12:21 pm

              • Ah – I wondered why there were a couple of SS personnel at Treblinka who were described as “photographers”. This is referring to the jobs they used to carry out at the Aktion T-4 sites in Germany and Austria. These men were taking photos of each individual who entered the facilities so that a decision could be made by the doctors and assessors of who would actually be put to death, and who would be deemed fit and well enough to live.

                Methinks, therefore, that not all of those mentally and physically disabled people who were brought to these sites actually perished. It could well be the case that many of the alleged victims actually survived, and were transferred on to other psychiatric hospitals.

                But we’ll never know the truth, because all the records and photos have gone “Absent Without Leave” ( as they say in military circles ). All we’ve got is a bunch of old liars, who were encouraged by Allied Intelligence Agents to dream up the most horrific exaggerations they could think of.

                Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 8:39 am

                • “Ah – I wondered why there were a couple of SS personnel at Treblinka who were described as “photographers”. This is referring to the jobs they used to carry out at the Aktion T-4 sites in Germany and Austria. These men were taking photos of each individual who entered the facilities so that a decision could be made by the doctors and assessors of who would actually be put to death, and who would be deemed fit and well enough to live.”

                  That decision was already made before the victims entered the facilities. Anyone who entered the T-4 Centers were already dead, the photographers only documented the victims before death.

                  “Methinks, therefore, that not all of those mentally and physically disabled people who were brought to these sites actually perished. It could well be the case that many of the alleged victims actually survived, and were transferred on to other psychiatric hospitals.”

                  Sorry to wreck your illusion. Anyone picked was euthanized.

                  “But we’ll never know the truth, because all the records and photos have gone “Absent Without Leave” ( as they say in military circles ). All we’ve got is a bunch of old liars, who were encouraged by Allied Intelligence Agents to dream up the most horrific exaggerations they could think of.”

                  Since the fall of the USSR some 70,000 records kept by the Germans regarding T-4 have been released.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 9:41 am

                • So true….

                  “Most of the memoirs and reports of Holocaust survivors are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks…”
                  –Samuel Gringauz, “Jewish Social Studies” (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p6.

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 10:42 am

                • “That decision was already made before the victims entered the facilities. Anyone who entered the T-4 Centers were already dead, the photographers only documented the victims before death.”

                  Could you produce your evidence for this statement, please.

                  “Sorry to wreck your illusion. Anyone picked was euthanized”

                  Why do you have to state the bleedin’ obvious – of course anyone picked for euthasasia was going to be euthanased !

                  “Since the fall of the USSR some 70,000 records kept by the Germans regarding T-4 have been released.”

                  Well, that’s great news – you will now be able to tell us we can find these 70,000 records. Do they have the names, ages and former addresses of all the victims ?

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 10:05 am

                • This is how they were picked, Talbot:

                  See the “+” in red, down at the bottom?
                  That determined if the person lived or died.
                  This poor soul didn’t make the grade. A “+” meant selection for death, a “-” meant that the patient was spared.

                  The form itself was filled out by the institutions the disabled were housed in. The institution returned these forms to the physicians administering the program. These physicians never examined the patients themselves, instead, they based their decision only on the document provided.

                  More to come.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 12:06 pm

                • The official narrative of the Hartheim T-4 institute claims that 12,000 inmates of the Dachau and Mauthausen concentration camps were taken there and exterminated.

                  First off, we can forget about this high total – its an exaggeration. As with all these holohoax numbers we have to divide by six to arrive at a more sensible and realistic total. So we are talking round about 2,000 souls who were transferred there. And what were they taken there for?. Well, the camp administrators had identified these inmates as suffering from psychiatric problems of one sort or another and wanted them assessed for their ability to function as normal prisoners within the camp system. They themselves were not experts in this field – whereas Hartheim and the other institutions were.

                  I’ve no doubt that the doctors at Hartheim assessed these people to see if their condition was curable. If so – then they were sent on to other psychiatric hospitals for treatment. If their mental state was not too bad, then they were given medication and sent back to the camps. It is possible that the doctors even advised that some patients be released from incarceration altogether and sent home for local psychiatric care. Only those individuals who were deemed to be incurable were selected for euthanasia. Yes – that’s tragic, controversial, perhaps cruel. But that was the program carried out by the National Socialist government in Germany at that time.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 12:22 pm

                • Fair enough – I accept that document as genuine – no problem at all. But how many of these actual documents of individuals who passed through the program exist?

                  In addition, it is quite clear that a selection process was carried out before any euthanasia took place. It would appear that no less than four doctors or assessors would have to give their agreement to the termination before it was carried out. That means, there must be hundreds or even thousands of these documents that only have one, two or three plusses on them. I hope you are going to produce these, or at least inform us with coclusive evidence exactly how many of these patients and inmates were spared the selection process – and were not put to death in the program.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 23, 2016 @ 12:43 pm

    • “I searched high and low on the internet to find out what poison gas was allegedly being used to kill all the victims – but it soon became obvious that you could spend the rest of your life trying to find out this non-existent information – it could have been Herman Goering’s stale farts for all we know.”

      I actually think Hitler’s funky farts, he was quite gaseous.

      These gas chambers used bottled Carbon Monoxide:

      http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_intro.html

      The first Nazi gas chambers for human beings were introduced as part of the Nazi euthanasia programme, called “Aktion T4”, the operation for eliminating physically and mentally handicapped people in Germany and Poland. At that time, the preferred gas was carbon monoxide. In Germany this was provided via gas cylinders, in Poland mainly by the exhaust fumes of motors.

      I realize that as a denier you are constitutionally unable to say “gassing” without becoming physically ill.

      Unless, you are denying that the T-4 Program never took place………..

      Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 3:00 pm

      • I would have thought that you would have spent your free day relaxing at home trying to find out what happened to the mechanic – Willy Just. But that aside, you’ve found out that they were using bottled Carbon Monoxide at Hartheim Castle. OK – I don’t believe they were ever doing that – but you could tell us how the gas was fed into the chamber, and how it was extracted afterwards. Was there an electric pump and a fan to help distribute the gas, or was the cylinder somehow attached directly to the pipe; the valve then opened, and the gas released under its own pressure.

        And if what we are seeing in the photo is a faithful reconstruction of the gassing facility, then would it not be possible for one of the unfortunate victims to place his hand, or indeed his body over the mouth of the pipe?

        I don’t deny the T-4 program took place – I’m quite certain it did, but it didn’t involve any mass gassing. I’ve no doubt it was done individually by lethal injection or cyanide tablets added to an inmate’s food. What I question is the huge numbers that are alleged to have died in the program. We need evidence of people’s names, ages and former addresses before we can accept those totals.

        Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 3:39 pm

        • “I would have thought that you would have spent your free day relaxing at home trying to find out what happened to the mechanic – Willy Just.”

          Why?
          If you believe the document regarding the gas vans is a forgery:
          PROVE. IT.

          “But that aside, you’ve found out that they were using bottled Carbon Monoxide at Hartheim Castle. OK – I don’t believe they were ever doing that – but you could tell us how the gas was fed into the chamber, and how it was extracted afterwards. Was there an electric pump and a fan to help distribute the gas, or was the cylinder somehow attached directly to the pipe; the valve then opened, and the gas released under its own pressure.”

          I’ve added a link below.

          “And if what we are seeing in the photo is a faithful reconstruction of the gassing facility, then would it not be possible for one of the unfortunate victims to place his hand, or indeed his body over the mouth of the pipe?”

          😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

          Talbot, I’m really trying here……………………
          If someone tried that they would simply die quicker.
          Plus, the inclination would be to get away from the pipe expelling the gas, not run over and cover it.

          “I don’t deny the T-4 program took place – I’m quite certain it did, but it didn’t involve any mass gassing.”

          Why?

          “I’ve no doubt it was done individually by lethal injection”

          It was done that way to start with, however, why waste injections when gassing is easier?

          “or cyanide tablets added to an inmate’s food.”

          What is your proof of this assertion?

          “What I question is the huge numbers that are alleged to have died in the program. We need evidence of people’s names, ages and former addresses before we can accept those totals.”

          https://books.google.com/books?id=xKjqCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=hartheim+castle+gas+chamber&source=bl&ots=dxNzTNZxiX&sig=RzwrKXEqOqSsLxkew4PJL9tCVHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNlfrq3LfNAhUB-2MKHfuZCLs4ChDoAQguMAc#v=onepage&q=hartheim%20castle%20gas%20chamber&f=false

          Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 4:26 pm

          • Jeff I started reading that article and I just couldn’t read anymore because the things in it was so ridiculous…. he mentions about smelling the burning flesh from the crematories that would never happen with crematories that are working properly like most of the articles that you show it just ridiculous make no sense and based on lies.
            But they can say whatever they want because they can’t prove it and they are just asking Dumbo people to believe it and guys like you do.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 4:36 pm

            • “Jeff I started reading that article and I just couldn’t read anymore because the things in it was so ridiculous…. he mentions about smelling the burning flesh from the crematories that would never happen with crematories that are working properly like most of the articles that you show it just ridiculous make no sense and based on lies”

              I’m going to be very understanding because I understand you don’t know anything about the T-4 Program.
              GERMANS protested this program, Jim. There were widespread protests over the killing of the disabled. Many of the protests extended from GERMAN bystanders for the reasons explained in the article, the chimneys were too low so smoke and the smell of burning flesh extended for miles around. GERMAN protests caused the end of the T-4 Program.

              “But they can say whatever they want because they can’t prove it and they are just asking Dumbo people to believe it and guys like you do.”

              This “dumbo” person at least knew what the T-4 Program was, Jim.
              What does that say about you, that you didn’t?

              I get it, though. Deniers don’t like focusing on the T-4 Program, it shows the genocidal bent of the Nazi government. It also shows that the Nazis were willing to use gas to kill victims. I realize any mention of “gas” makes deniers run screaming.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 4:50 pm

            • Yes, I read that nonsense about the stench of burning flesh too. One only has to zoom in on Hartheim on Google Earth to realise that the castle stands right smack-bang in the middle of a small town. The residents aren’t going to put with that for more than 24 hours – plus the personnel of the castle themselves wouldn’t tolerate such an awful smell. How could anyone live and work in such an environment – its just plain stupid.

              Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 5:16 pm

              • Are you denying that the Germans themselves put an end to the T-4 Program?

                Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 5:28 pm

                • New documentary on Netflix.”mystery files;hitler. In the description it says,”what transformed him from a human,to a living horror”. I got my opinion of it. Y’all watch it and see what you end up with

                  Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 5:37 pm

                • That’s a reasonable claim to make – that the German public themselves brought the program to an end. People were always uneasy about the humanity and morality of euthanasia right from the start, and the churches – led by the Roman Catholics were always deeply concerned about such a controversial policy. The Catholic church inside Germany may have been able to curtail the program earlier, but of course they were restricted by the Concordat that the National Socialists had made earlier with the Vatican.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 5:52 pm

          • 57 little cartoon icons – is this a record?

            Your links to other websites didn’t produce any lists of names, ages, and former addresses that I was eagerly anticipating. But I’m not despondent, because I’m quite certain – that in good time – you will indeed produce this information, plus some other convincing evidence that mass gassings took place during the T-4 program.

            Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 4:55 pm

        • http://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1338&context=honorsprojects

          The gas chambers were designed to look like showers, complete with benches and showerheads (See Photo 10). Depending on the facility, up to sixty patients at a time entered the gas chambers. Most were unsuspecting, but some patients were given sedatives if they were suspicious. Once all of the patients were in the chamber, a physician turned on the gas. Patients were unconscious in about five minutes and dead in about ten (p. 97). The chambers were then allowed to ventilate for an hour, at which point staff identified which bodies would be cremated or buried in mass graves and which would be brought to autopsy rooms (See Photo 11)

          Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 4:36 pm

          • “… staff identified which bodies would be cremated or buried in mass graves and which would be brought to autopsy rooms…”

            OK – so they can now tell us exactly where these mass graves are located, and what happened afterwards to the bodies brought to the autopsy room.

            Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 5:03 pm

          • The shower head theory is just plain nonsense showers were there to use as showers they work perfectly as showers.
            I would like to see the showerheads emit gas out of them that would be a real chore the equipment you need to do something like that.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 5:37 pm

            • Okay. With all the showerhead theories,why didn’t they come up with something more advanced. I’m sure Cub Scouts can do better than that. Sam Quention had a great gas chamber. Cyanide gets tipped into a bowl of sulfuric acid. Put grating in the floor of the gas house and have all the chems mix together down there. If you tell someone it’s a shower room,they ain’t gonna think twice about . They see the grating and they think the water drains there. Nazis may not have been popular,but they weren’t stupid. Kelley Johnson at Skunkworks didn’t even think about a jet,until the military brass told him they needed one,cause Germany already had a working one. Germany left us way behind in stealth technology. Look at the Horten Brothers Ho 229. They had stealth technology in the bag before we could even spell the word. Put them neck to neck with Kelley Johnson and they would’ve probably smoked him and his entire Skunkworks team. That’s why when I look at showerheads I’m like,”come on. That’s the best y’all can do. Wether it happened or not,showerheads are kinda hard to accept with their technology.

              Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 5:54 pm

    • It’s a reconstruction… Well a good amount of it. As well the Germans plastered over a door… It shows intent to hide something.

      Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:53 pm

  9. I suspect the T4 gassings to be a hoax – not the lethal injections of T4, just the gassings. Try to keep that in mind when reading about these things and see if that fits or not. If you happen to come across undeniable evidence for T4 gassings, I’d be interested in seeing it.

    Comment by blake121666 — June 19, 2016 @ 1:11 pm

    • You wrote: “I suspect the T4 gassings to be a hoax – not the lethal injections of T4, just the gassings.”

      I wrote about this on this blog post:

      https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/operation-reinhardt-or-operation-reinhard/

      Comment by furtherglory — June 19, 2016 @ 1:38 pm

      • There’s nothing about T4 at that link?

        Comment by blake121666 — June 19, 2016 @ 1:56 pm

        • Just listen to what she writes… not what she links. That’s what I learned.

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 10:58 am

          • Ya more Holohuckster nonsense.
            The best admission to the Holocaust this quote I came across the Holocaust happen because it happened.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 11:06 am

            • Just like that document which clearly states for a gas tight door and shower heads to be sent to Krema 2

              :1 gasdichte Tür, 14 Brausen”

              Perhaps you should look what she linked, and I don’t think it matters. When she has something to add she types it out. Her links can be unrelated at times.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 11:15 am

    • A good number of deniers believe T4 had gassings… so I think you may be in the minority.

      Comment by Lóegaire — June 20, 2016 @ 12:04 am

      • I’m a little lost here what’s T4?

        JR

        Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 6:58 am

        • You wrote: “I’m a little lost here what’s T4?”
          I wrote about the T4 program at

          https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/t4-program/

          Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 7:12 am

        • Jim – the holocausters make a great a fanfare out of the T4 euthenasia program, which was designed to eliminate severely mentally and physically disabled German and Austrian citizens.

          And there are two reasons for this. The first reason – is that this sad and controversial event is based on actual truth – unlike their own extermination cult, which is of course largely a pack of lies. So they calculate that if they can ratchet-up the horror and pathos of these unfortunate innocent victims who were put to death, then it is easier for them to project the Nazis as so hideously evil that they would do exactly the same thing to the Jews and other groups of “undesirable” peoples.

          The second reason they play up the T4 program, is that they claim that the alleged “gassings” of these poor victims was an experimental laboratory for the much larger extermination process of “The Final Solution of the Jewish Question”, which came later after the T4 program had come to an end in 1941.

          But the holocausters are also helped greatly by the fact that some of the SS personnel involved in the T4 program were transferred to operate the Rheinhardt camps in Eastern Poland. Naturally, they are quite overjoyed at this – and use it to “prove” that the Nazis were exterminating the Jews in Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec. But they ignore the fact that it was really only some of the junior staff – like male nurses, orderlies and the small group of security personnel who were sent to Poland. All the senior administrators and doctors who had actually authorised and carried out the euthenasia of the patients were not included.

          The official number of victims who perished in the T4 program is said to be around 70,000, while others claim as many as 200,000. I personally don’t believe either figure is true, because the five psychiatric hospitals that were involved, were not large enough, nor sufficiently equipped and organised to deal with these sort of numbers. A good yardstick to use in anything to do with “Nazi evil” is to divide your total by 6 and then you are actually in the ball-park as it were. Therefore, I would suggest that the figures are closer to 12,000 rather than 70,000.

          Comment by Talbot — June 20, 2016 @ 10:34 am

        • Don’t know much about history, don’t know much about biology…..

          That’s you, Jim.

          Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 2:02 pm

          • Jeff at least I’m not ashamed to admit I don’t know anything you would let you know everything yet know nothing.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 2:15 pm

            • “Jeff at least I’m not ashamed to admit I don’t know anything you would let you know everything yet know nothing.”

              I know what T-4 was, Jim.

              You profess to be some type of “expert,” Jim.

              That’s laughable.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 2:21 pm

              • And why is this becoming personal you have a bad day at the office.

                JR

                Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 2:27 pm

                • “And why is this becoming personal you have a bad day at the office.”

                  Nothing personal, Jim.

                  Actually I have the day off. Relaxing at home.

                  I just can’t believe that someone who studies the Holocaust wouldn’t know about T-4. But you only know about the Jews because that is your obsession.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 2:39 pm

                • You are right to be concerned but believe it or not there are some things that I have NO interest in and that is one of them.
                  So I admit my lack of knowledge of the topic. But now I am now informed. If I read something I usually store it in my mind somewhere.
                  My problem is remembering in my brain where I put it to remember it. I go through so many books it’s hard to keep up.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 20, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

              • Jeffry. Let’s all be friends. I’ll even let you sing your Sam Cooke song( what a ) wonderful world,but I get to sing Sam the Sham and the Pharaos. However,if anyone stars to sing Connie Francis,the shows over.

                Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 5:31 pm

          • Jeff. You ain’t getting ready to start singing,Sam Cookes,”Wonderful World” are you? You watch Animal House too much. Can tell John Belushi one of your heros. Don’t start any food fights

            Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 3:25 pm

            • Huge Animal House fan, Tim.

              Aaaaawwwww, it was on Prime Video, not there anymore.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 20, 2016 @ 3:50 pm

              • Go to films.org. Let me ask you something. Everyone gets in a rut arguing over one thing. T4,showerheads,etc. now everyone talks about that shit,but they never introduce the “human element”. The guys that worked at the prisons. They didn’t have any training? They’re working with an extremely lethal compound. You gonna tell me after basic they were told,”okay. Your MOS is the gas house at this prison. This clearly would not have been a slouch job. You screw up,you could end up dead. At basic we went in a room with gas masks on. The filled it with gas. The instructor walked up to us one at a time. We pulled out masks off. Name,rank,serial. We then went outside. I was puking my guts out. Point is,they wanted us to know how the shit effected us,so we’d take it seriously. Now it seems to me,these guys are gonna have AIT for this shit. Now it’s clear they can’t be exposed to the gas. So i figure they’d use some lab rats. Show them how the gas effects the animals. Prove to them,this ain’t shit you monkey around with. While you’re doing that,you see if any guys are getting squeamish. I don’t care how badass someone may think they are,we all got a breaking point . I found out mine the hard way. You’re gonna need shrinks to evaluate each person that has been given this detail. You don’t want to find out someone ain’t got the stomach for this shit in the field. Machines gonna start to break down then. You’ll need a doctor to give a lecture on accidental exposure to this shit. How to properly handle the shit,so the mortality rate dont go up on the troops because of this shit. Once again back to the head doctor. I don’t give a shit if you shoot,gas or hang someone. Death is very personal. I don’t care if it’s your enemy you killed. That shit will come home to roost. I heard somewhere mass shootings didn’t go over to well. Some of the troops didn’t have the stomach for that. Why would gas be any different. I wish the hell I never knew what it was like to take another mans life. No. I’m not a badass. Even though there was all this gassing they say was going on,these people still had to know what they we’re doing. Unless they were Ted Bundy,Charlie Manson or Ghengis Khan,the shits gonna catch up with them. That’s a ton of shit to throw on any man. That’s probably just the tip. They’re gonna have to train these people. It’s no different than a pilot. The trainings more intense and lengthy,but you need training for both of them. I’m just saying,a school for that kind of MOS is gonna go a long way to adding evidence to wether this happened or not. Gas houses,stains on the walls,train operators,the training for the people that did the killing,is still missing. Why don’t people start brining that up? This other shits only gonna go so far. I mean if I was puttin a case on someone,I’d think you got a base where you train people for this shit,is gonna go a long way. It’s gonna be hard to deny some of this shit if you say,”that’s where they trained the guys to work the gas houses”

                Comment by Tim — June 20, 2016 @ 6:53 pm

          • “Don’t know much about history”

            My team did a similar joke in a video with David Cole. lol It applies to Jim much better, nice one.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:46 pm

            • It’s what I think of when he posts something goofy.

              Comment by Jeff K. — June 21, 2016 @ 9:03 pm

              • “…believe it or not there are some things that I have NO interest in ____…”

                Fill in the blank with anything you like, I put “the truth about the T4 program.” I got a pretty good laugh out of it.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 9:57 pm

                • Miss Click ( well you did mention the fact you’re a lady. That’s how daddy taught me to address a lady I do not know). I’ll ask you this question. Everyone is in a rut over showerheads and T4. Hell with that,let’s move on. I can’t make my own decision if this did or did not happen,based on a few facts. Do you know if the GIs the nazis had operating the gas huts,got AIT for that. My point is quite simple. Somebody operates one of those gas houses and uses that chemical,it’s gonna be dangerous. I don’t care what anyone says. Drop the ball on that one and someone’s gonna end up dead. Wether the soldier went to training for this,is just a smaller part,of the proverbial “big picture “. That on its own ain’t gonna prove dick one way or another. It does raise a question with me. If they put all these other folks on trial,for what I would see as “nit picking”,then why don’t they put the people on trial that taught these soldiers how to operate the gas huts? Seems to me I could get more mileage out of that,then wasting my time putting a 91 year old RTO on trial. I’ve looked,but any subject dealing with how they trained the gas house operators,is not there . I don’t take just a few things into consideration when I’m trying to decide if something did or did not happen. I like to have as much info as possible. There’s a whole lot to consider here.

                  Comment by Tim — June 22, 2016 @ 7:25 am

                • “Miss Click ( well you did mention the fact you’re a lady. That’s how daddy taught me to address a lady I do not know)”

                  Works for me, I don’t really care personally… Address me as you like.

                  ” Do you know if the GIs the nazis had operating the gas huts,got AIT for that.”

                  I think the army had some role in it… we have to remember the people who were being gassed were the mentally retarded and handicapped… It wouldn’t take much to detain them.

                  ” Somebody operates one of those gas houses and uses that chemical,it’s gonna be dangerous.”

                  Carbon Monoxide is going to effect them how exactly? I have read the 2nd leuchter report but the only area of leaking I have ever heard was of a window…. In which no one was behind. Its pretty easy to know the people gassed during T4 may not have been able to comprehend most things. Mentally Retarded is a large portion of it. In Shermers book he makes mention of a witness who looked through a window into one of these rooms (I think it was Schloss, no real exact location is given.) and they describe seeing everyone on the ground gagging for breath. My question for you is where would the leak be that would put the operator at risk? The operators in my opinion were far from being at risk.

                  “I don’t care what anyone says.”

                  Why are you asking me then?

                  “Drop the ball on that one and someone’s gonna end up dead.”

                  what exactly is going to make them end up dead? They had a window within Hartheim, leuchter said it would leak… Wouldn’t this act as a system of ventilation?

                  Also what prevents them from opening other windows inside the castle aka in the north then open the northern door of the gas chamber… Just have the guy in there with a gas mask. It would do a great job of Airing out the chamber.

                  Also isn’t the fact that the Germans plastered over a door a good fact they were hiding something? Why exactly they would randomly plaster out a door is questionable to me.

                  “That on its own ain’t gonna prove dick one way or another. It does raise a question with me.”

                  Well there is a document which mentions “Gassing Devices” that’s from around 1941. I think THHP had it on their website before it went down.

                  if your interested in checking it out heres a link to an archive of it.

                  http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/

                  This help?

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 10:19 am

            • I remember that! It was fucking great! The comments section of it was just a complete laughing stock. But yeah I took it down.

              Comment by Lóegaire — June 21, 2016 @ 9:28 pm

        • Jim your a fucking genius. It’s when the Germans literally murdered their own people in gas chambers.

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:45 pm

          • Click head….no problem…. all read up on it.
            Another taken out of context happening blaming the German for a something most nations were guilty of.

            JR

            Comment by jrizoli — June 21, 2016 @ 9:11 pm

            • What in the Hell are you talking about? It’s literally murder of their own citizens… It’s a Euthanasia program, and it’s not deniable. There is the written order, documentation which states that it was a program of killing, and plenty of eyewitness.

              Also why are you insulting me like a Flat Earther? You could do so much better then just adding onto the name… Like you tried doing this to Anon… You know what… Never mind.

              Anyway have fun reading the 2nd Leuchter report. Since Leuchter seems to be the only thing which you can rely on.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 9:16 pm

              • Click – I accept that there is documentation that a program of euthanasia was underway, but is there any official written records describing the actual killing process. Because what I have seen and read so far is just not good enough to be convincing that mass gassings were taking place.

                Hermie produced some extracts from the IMT “Doctors Trial”, where ” Viktor Hermann Brack – the organiser of the Euthanasia Programme, Action T4” was all at sea in trying to answer questions regarding these alleged “gas chambers”.

                If the “Head Honcho” of the entire program couldn’t tell the world definitively that there were gas chambers in existence, then aren’t the rest of us entitled to doubt and question this method of killing.

                Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 4:58 am

                • “Hermie produced some extracts from the IMT “Doctors Trial”, where ” Viktor Hermann Brack – the organiser of the Euthanasia Programme, Action T4” was all at sea in trying to answer questions regarding these alleged “gas chambers”.

                  If the “Head Honcho” of the entire program couldn’t tell the world definitively that there were gas chambers in existence, then aren’t the rest of us entitled to doubt and question this method of killing.”

                  Is your automatic assumption that he was telling the truth on the stand?
                  Why would Brack tell the truth about gas chambers?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 5:10 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Is your automatic assumption that he was telling the truth on the stand? Why would Brack tell the truth about gas chambers?”

                  Why would Hoess tell the truth about gas chambers and the mass murder of Jews at Auschwitz? Because you crucially need his ‘confession’ (and similar non-probative series of words) to ‘prove’ your point. Because the exterminationist file is empty and entirely rests on Ufology-like & Witch-trial-looking bogus testimonial ‘evidence’…

                  This comment shows your utter desperation and two-speed evidential standards. When Brack said that he had seen several gas chambers, you decided to believe him. But when his cooperative Holohoax court testimony pathetically turned into a fiasco, with him unable to keep ‘his’ story straight and provide basic information (such as the name of the engineer(s) who designed the alleged very first Nazi homicidal gas chambers, nothing less!), you suddenly decided to rather apply the Holohoaxster classic methodology, i.e. to put another embarrassing/inconvenient testimony aside. Funny. And very telling…

                  Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 6:05 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Is your automatic assumption that he was telling the truth on the stand? Why would Brack tell the truth about gas chambers?”

                  “Why would Hoess tell the truth about gas chambers and the mass murder of Jews at Auschwitz? Because you crucially need his ‘confession’ (and similar non-probative series of words) to ‘prove’ your point. Because the exterminationist file is empty and entirely rests on Ufology-like & Witch-trial-looking bogus testimonial ‘evidence’…”

                  I believe Hoess because his confession fits the facts. Hoess also testified at Nuremberg about the toll of mass bombing and that SS guards were forbidden from abusing prisoners, two things the allies wouldn’t want to hear.
                  So, am I supposed to believe him over the bombing and SS guards but not about gassing of prisoners?

                  “This comment shows your utter desperation and two-speed evidential standards. When Brack said that he had seen several gas chambers, you decided to believe him.”

                  Because this testimony fits the historical facts regarding the T-4 Program.

                  “But when his cooperative Holohoax court testimony pathetically turned into a fiasco, with him unable to keep ‘his’ story straight and provide basic information (such as the name of the engineer(s) who designed the alleged very first Nazi homicidal gas chambers, nothing less!), you suddenly decided to rather apply the Holohoaxster classic methodology, i.e. to put another embarrassing/inconvenient testimony aside. Funny. And very telling…”

                  Why do you care? After all, just like FG, you believe murdering the disabled is perfectly justified.
                  I realize you have issues with gas chambers, after all, if the Nazis were willing to gas these innocents why not gas their mortal enemy?
                  Also, why would Brack know specific details like the names of engineers? He headed the program and expected results. I doubt he was there every minute and knew everything.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 6:18 am

                • After reading the exchange between Brack and the Judge, it appeared to me that Dr. Brack was trying to answer the questions truthfully, but was genuinely perplexed as to why he didn’t know anything about these gas chambers and who installed them. He was floundering around – as was the good, learned judge himself!

                  Obviously there was no official German documentation of these alleged “gas chambers” available at the Doctors Trial, because otherwise these would already have been entered as evidence beforehand – translated and analysed by experts – and then the Judge would then be asking Brack questions quoting directly from these documents. The fact that he didn’t is indicative that the documentation ( certainly at that time ) did not exist.

                  So my question now to the holocaust proponents is this;- Can you produce any genuine German document proving that mass gassing was taking place during the T-4 program ?

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 7:54 am

                • A further question that needs to be asked of the holocaust proponents;- Is there any contemporary German documentation confirming the number of victims of the T-4 Euthanasia program?

                  The totals that I have seen banded about, claim that 70,000 severely handicapped people were put to death ( some estimates even claim figures as high as 200,000! ). But its now time for the proponents to come and tell us what the official total is – and from what evidence this number has been arrived at. We really need to know if there is a comprehensive list of the names, ages, and former addresses of the victims. If there is no such list in existence – then pray tell us, how you actually know with any kind of certainty that the numbers are in fact true ?

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 8:17 am

                • I found this:

                  http://libguides.ischoool.umd.edu/content_mobile.php?pid=590437&sid=4867633#box_4867633

                  I’ll go through and see what documents exist.

                  The website links to IMT documents and a few other sources.

                  I have a condition regarding this, Talbot. Because you’ve asked I will track this information for you…….on the condition that you accept anything I provide as genuine. I’ve done this for you in the past only to have you hem and haw about the authenticity of the documents I provide.
                  I’m not going to waste my time on this if this is what your end game is. I once spent an afternoon tracking down a report made by the Poles on items tested for cyanide only to have you give me crap about it.
                  Do you accept this condition?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 8:38 am

                • Jeff wrote: “I believe Hoess because his confession fits the facts.”

                  Or more accurately, because the ‘facts’ were ‘established’ (written and repeated ad nauseam) from his ‘confession’ and similar testimonial BS…

                  Jeff wrote: “Hoess also testified at Nuremberg about the toll of mass bombing and that SS guards were forbidden from abusing prisoners, two things the allies wouldn’t want to hear.”

                  Just like any good lie, a mere mixture of flat lies, distortions and truths.

                  Hoess could also have come with stories about SS werewolves eating Jewish kids alive every full moon. But his ‘confession’ would of course have been much less believable that way. As long as he told the victors’ horror tales about Auschwitz, there was no objection to Hoess incorporating some real events in his testimony. On the contrary, it was even better if he did, for the reason explained above.

                  Jeff wrote: “So, am I supposed to believe him over the bombing and SS guards but not about gassing of prisoners?”

                  You’re not supposed to do anything other than what you’ve done so far. Believing testimonies is a matter of faith every time. A matter between you and your conscience…

                  Jeff wrote: “Because this testimony fits the historical facts regarding the T-4 Program.”

                  Or once again, his testimony and other testimonies were/are what wrote the victors’ narrative of the T4-Program.

                  Jeff wrote: “Why do you care? ”

                  Is this the 1st sentence of the 100%-politically-biased historian’s guidebook?😉

                  Again, very telling!!

                  Jeff wrote: “After all, just like FG, you believe murdering the disabled is perfectly justified.”

                  Indeed.

                  Jeff wrote: “I realize you have issues with gas chambers, after all, if the Nazis were willing to gas these innocents why not gas their mortal enemy?”

                  I have no issues with gas chambers. But you patently do. The titanic number of your countless comments on this blog vastly speak for itself about that.

                  Jeff wrote: “Also, why would Brack know specific details like the names of engineers? He headed the program and expected results. I doubt he was there every minute and knew everything.”

                  C’mon. It’s said that Brack “conferred with Odilo Globocnik about the practical implementation of the Final Solution [at the Reinhardt camps].” One could expect that Globocnick’s 1st and most important question would have been “Where can I find a guy or a group of guys able to build homicidal gas chambers for the implementation my new task?” But visibly, Brack couldn’t have helped Globocnick on that one. How laughable!

                  Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 8:39 am

                • Jeff wrote: “I’ll go through and see what documents exist.”

                  Is there a name for a person who first believes in something and then tries to find evidence confirming his firmly-rooted beliefs?

                  Oh yes. Now I remember. A religious zealot.

                  Jeff wrote: “I have a condition regarding this, Talbot. Because you’ve asked I will track this information for you…….on the condition that you accept anything I provide as genuine.”

                  Back to Uncle Joe’s mock trials, it seems.

                  Becoming increasingly funny.

                  Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 8:51 am

                • Jeff wrote: “I’ll go through and see what documents exist.”

                  “Is there a name for a person who first believes in something and then tries to find evidence confirming his firmly-rooted beliefs?”

                  Actually I’m doing this because Talbot asked for very specific proof. I’ve read about the T-4 Program, I’ve seen documents but Talbot is asking for more.

                  “Oh yes. Now I remember. A religious zealot.”

                  What do you call someone who scoffs at historical reality?

                  Oh, I remember. A dumb ass.

                  Jeff wrote: “I have a condition regarding this, Talbot. Because you’ve asked I will track this information for you…….on the condition that you accept anything I provide as genuine.”

                  “Back to Uncle Joe’s mock trials, it seems.”

                  Well, you didn’t mind using information from these mock trials. What does that make you?

                  That’s right. A hypocrite.

                  “Becoming increasingly funny.”

                  I’ll tell you what is funny, that ass-whipping I gave you over Rudenko’s camps.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 9:18 am

                • ” I accept that there is documentation that a program of euthanasia was underway, but is there any official written records describing the actual killing process.”

                  Hmmm, depends mostly on the doctor and so on. He was the one who assigned the mercy death. I would need to go digging, I find anything ill let you know.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 9:08 am

                • Jeff – I cannot possibly accept your conditions in advance. This would be like me giving you a blank cheque to produce all kinds of half-baked information from anyone or anywhere without verification of the sources.

                  No – you must present your evidence for all of us to peruse, so that it can be tested for its accuracy and truthfulness. If it turns outs that what you have submitted is credible and convincing, then you will be vindicated in open, public debate.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 9:10 am

                • No, I refuse to waste my time.

                  We both accept the reality of this program. Therefore we both accept that documents pertaining to it are genuine.

                  Accept it or not, Talbot. I’m not going to dig through things only to deal with your wild speculation but no proof.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 9:21 am

                • That “i-school” website you produced, Jeff, is claiming the 200,000 death figure for the number of victims who perished in the T-4 euthanasia program. But, oh dear me, this is truly an enormous number to have been processed through those five very modest-size psychiatric institutions.

                  All of us – quite naturally – find it difficult to get our minds around a number of this magnitude – so a yardstick that I often use to try and visualise these kind of figures is to think of the Thiepval Memorial in France that stands on the site of the WW1 Battlefield of the Somme. This memorial contains the names of 76,000 soldiers who were lost or missing – but whose bodies were never found for burial. Anyone who has visited that memorial is gob-smacked, and truly overwhelmed by the number of names that appear on all four sides of the walls and pillars.

                  But here, with the Aktion T-4 program, it is claimed that almost three times that number were put to death! I’m afraid this huge total is way beyond the capacity, the resources, and the manpower that was allocated to carry out the program.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 9:56 am

                • “But here, with the Aktion T-4 program, it is claimed that almost three times that number were put to death! I’m afraid this huge total is way beyond the capacity, the resources, and the manpower that was allocated to carry out the program.”

                  Why?
                  During the Katyn Massacres the Soviets executed 20,000 Polish officers in two months.
                  They were killing up to 3,000 a night at about the same number of sites with a minimum of personnel.
                  The Rwandan Genocide took a minimum of 800,000 people in four months.
                  Where there’s a will there’s a way, Talbot.

                  That’s the total for the war, Talbot, the 200,000.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 10:13 am

                • The Holohoaxes have a strange way of making numbers increase or decrease, whatever their whim is that’s what it will be but I noticed that most of the numbers dealing with this topic are way out of bounds but people are going to believe it because the higher the number the mote evil you can put on the Germans. What makes it even more interesting is when they give us a number they want us to disprove it.
                  Funny how the burden of proof. Or as I should say disproof always is thrown upon us.

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 11:04 am

                • Fair enough, Jeff – you don’t want to spend time searching for information that you feel might be open to question when it is produced into the public domain. But by declining in this way, then your credibility as a holocaust advocate does take rather a dent.

                  Further Glory informed us recently that your posts outnumber the contributions of every other single contributor by three times. Well, to any reasonable and independent-minded person, this would mean that you are a mighty champion of the holocaust – and were more than willing to produce the necessary evidence before the gaze of the public.

                  But when you are asked to supply information confirming some details relating to one aspect of the Third Reich – namely the Aktion T-4 program – then you become very coy and negative.

                  Comment by Talbot — June 22, 2016 @ 10:14 am

                • “Fair enough, Jeff – you don’t want to spend time searching for information that you feel might be open to question when it is produced into the public domain. But by declining in this way, then your credibility as a holocaust advocate does take rather a dent.”

                  First, I’m not an advocate or a proponent of anything. But, when I see historical distortions and half-truths I’m going to call it. The gullible and impressionable can be taken in if they don’t understand the history. I want to make sure they know where to find things.
                  Second, my issue Talbot is that I don’t want to spend my time on things you won’t believe anyway. That wastes my time and yours.
                  You once asked me for the results of any forensic investigations done by the Soviets or Poles on Auschwitz. I spent some time, tracked one down.
                  You dismissed it. I don’t want to do that again.

                  “Further Glory informed us recently that your posts outnumber the contributions of every other single contributor by three times.”

                  I’ve been cutting back.

                  “Well, to any reasonable and independent-minded person, this would mean that you are a mighty champion of the holocaust”

                  I’m only interested in historical facts, Talbot.

                  “– and were more than willing to produce the necessary evidence before the gaze of the public.”

                  Which I have done. Repeatedly. Over and over again. I provide links to material, documents and so on. Anything directed to you is dismissed automatically.

                  “But when you are asked to supply information confirming some details relating to one aspect of the Third Reich – namely the Aktion T-4 program – then you become very coy and negative.”

                  No, I’m just tired of wasting my time. This is a hobby, not a career.

                  I have asked you for proof of various denier theories. You never have any answers. Maybe you should come up with some.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 11:17 am

                • There Is one I know of from 1941 which mentions Gassing devices… If that helps.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 11:01 am

                • Jeff wrote: “What do you call someone who scoffs at historical reality? Oh, I remember. A dumb ass.”

                  A wolf. The animal most different from the sheep, of course.

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, you didn’t mind using information from these mock trials. What does that make you?”

                  Interesting to see that you put the Nuremberg ‘trials’ among Stalin’s mock trials. I think I have to agree on that one.

                  Jeff wrote: “I’ll tell you what is funny, that ass-whipping I gave you over Rudenko’s camps.”

                  ‘Ass-whipping’, a good one! I still have not stopped laughing at your “Yes, but in 1936 this land was not Soviet and…” Epic mess!😉

                  Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 3:22 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “What do you call someone who scoffs at historical reality? Oh, I remember. A dumb ass.”

                  “A wolf. The animal most different from the sheep, of course.”

                  My, you have a high opinion of yourself.

                  I’m thinking more along the lines of a donkey.

                  Jeff wrote: “Well, you didn’t mind using information from these mock trials. What does that make you?”

                  “Interesting to see that you put the Nuremberg ‘trials’ among Stalin’s mock trials. I think I have to agree on that one.”

                  That didn’t come through very well.
                  But, to continue, you don’t mind using material from said trials.
                  In other words you’re a hypocritical donkey.

                  Jeff wrote: “I’ll tell you what is funny, that ass-whipping I gave you over Rudenko’s camps.”

                  “‘Ass-whipping’, a good one! I still have not stopped laughing at your “Yes, but in 1936 this land was not Soviet and…” Epic mess! ;-)”

                  But, you can’t refute me.
                  Have any proof that those were foreign Jews?

                  No?

                  Tick, tock, denier.

                  Anytime you want to provide proof you let me know.

                  Until then you lose.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 22, 2016 @ 3:39 pm

                • From the book Inside the Gas Chambers
                  P.192….good point that applies to all camps.

                  No Gas Chambers No HoloHoax

                  The orthodox Ravensbrück historians did not hesitate to consider such a
                  fable, born out of the propaganda of the immediate post-war period, as a
                  “historical fact.” They were guided not by scientific but by “moral” principles. After all, each memorial site was in need of a gas chamber as a permanent reminder of “Nazi barbarity”! Furthermore, there were personal motivations. Without any gas chamber to boast of, these narrow-gauge historians feel excluded: their camp would no longer have anything to do with the Holocaust, and thus the historian of a second-rate camp automatically
                  becomes a second-rate historian. This is why it is so important for these people to pride themselves on a gas chamber “of their own.” Quite apart
                  from the fact that the only things tourists, when visiting the camp, are really interested in are the gruesome gas chambers. Without a gas chamber,
                  there is no public attention, and without attention there is no funding, and without any funding there is no job and no justification for Holocaust dogmatists.

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 22, 2016 @ 4:00 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “My, you have a high opinion of yourself.”

                  I have. That’s true. And I have good reasons for that.

                  Jeff wrote: “I’m thinking more along the lines of a donkey.”

                  You’re entitled to your opinion. I couldn’t care less about your opinion on me.

                  Jeff wrote: “That didn’t come through very well.”

                  What do you mean?

                  Jeff wrote: “But, to continue, you don’t mind using material from said trials. In other words you’re a hypocritical donkey.”

                  Since that’s the only material you wanna hear about, my choice is understandable if not expected.

                  Jeff wrote: “But, you can’t refute me. Have any proof that those were foreign Jews? No? Tick, tock, denier. Anytime you want to provide proof you let me know. Until then you lose.”

                  Your concession that there was vastly enough room for very numerous unwanted and unneeded Jews from the West in Far Eastern Europe and that the Nazis actually ran special camps for people unfit for work in that area despite the war raging there, as well as your inability to convincingly counter the Soviet broad definition of a Soviet Citizen at tha time, are enough for me. You’re entitled to your belief that using scarce resources to build and run special camps only for the imprisonment of locals unfit for labor and anti-German activities in Far Eastern Europe makes sense, but I’m afraid you won’t convince many people of the validity of your extravagant theory. On my side, I’ll keep going with my explanation of a wartime dump area for the unneeded portion of a people whose complete territorial eviction out of the entire European continent had been openly proclaimed by Nazi authorities.

                  Comment by hermie — June 23, 2016 @ 2:39 am

                • Jeff wrote: “My, you have a high opinion of yourself.”

                  “I have. That’s true. And I have good reasons for that.”

                  Your over-developed Napoleon Complex?
                  Wait, do you believe you are the reincarnated avatar of Hitler himself????????
                  That would explain your identification with the wolf.

                  Jeff wrote: “I’m thinking more along the lines of a donkey.”

                  “You’re entitled to your opinion. I couldn’t care less about your opinion on me.”

                  Very well. I’ll go with donkey.

                  Jeff wrote: “That didn’t come through very well.”

                  “What do you mean?”

                  Some of the things that you wrote came through scrambled on my end.

                  Jeff wrote: “But, to continue, you don’t mind using material from said trials. In other words you’re a hypocritical donkey.”

                  “Since that’s the only material you wanna hear about, my choice is understandable if not expected.”

                  You are the one who brought it up, not me.

                  Jeff wrote: “But, you can’t refute me. Have any proof that those were foreign Jews? No? Tick, tock, denier. Anytime you want to provide proof you let me know. Until then you lose.”

                  “Your concession”

                  What concession?

                  “that there was vastly enough room for very numerous unwanted and unneeded Jews”

                  The problem was not the room, the problem was getting the Jews from ghettos in Poland to the war torn areas of the Eastern Front. Especially Belorussia because even when it was behind the front lines it was an active partisan area devastated by partisan attacks and German reprisals. There was also a scarcity of food because the Germans were taking all the available food and shipping it back to Germany.

                  “from the West in Far Eastern Europe and that the Nazis actually ran special camps for people unfit for work in that area despite the war raging there,”

                  Yes, for the locals. Not foreigners. While transporting foreign Jews into the area was difficult it was not difficult to imprison people already living there.
                  Why are you assuming that the “Nazis” (read: SS) ran these camps?

                  “as well as your inability to convincingly counter the Soviet broad definition of a Soviet Citizen at tha time, are enough for me.”

                  I don’t have to counter it. What YOU have to do is convince me that these were FOREIGN JEWS.

                  “You’re entitled to your belief that using scarce resources to build and run special camps only for the imprisonment of locals unfit for labor and anti-German activities in Far Eastern Europe makes sense, but I’m afraid you won’t convince many people of the validity of your extravagant theory.”

                  Well, the fact is those people were locals. Besides, you don’t even have proof that these people were Jews.

                  “On my side, I’ll keep going with my explanation of a wartime dump area for the unneeded portion of a people whose complete territorial eviction out of the entire European continent had been openly proclaimed by Nazi authorities.”

                  That’s odd because you don’t have proof.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — June 23, 2016 @ 5:04 am

      • You wrote “A good number of deniers believe T4 had gassings”

        You are correct. I am a denier and I believe that deformed and mentally handicapped people were gassed at Hartheim. This began when the father of a mentally and physically deformed child contacted Hitler and requested permission to kill his deformed baby.

        Comment by furtherglory — June 20, 2016 @ 7:42 am

        • FG, I am aware. Unlike Anon I fact check myself quite often.

          Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:48 pm

          • Lol quick correction, just saw you were replying to Anon😄 Thought you were replying to my comment on Jim.

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:50 pm

          • I do some background research… Also my research is different from yours. You insist on reading Pressac all the time… The pelt report has been reliable and so has Alt.Revisionism… You may not insist on searching through but that’s what works for me.

            Comment by Lóegaire — June 21, 2016 @ 9:03 pm

            • Pressac has a great book and does a good show, when have I exactly turned down Pelt? I’m not sure.

              But do what works for you then.

              Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 9:05 pm

              • Also I do fact check… I post a theory and let the people smash away at it till its refined.

                Comment by Lóegaire — June 21, 2016 @ 9:20 pm

                • Posting your ideas then letting others smash it doesn’t help. I have told you this quite often. You should smash at your own ideas to conclude things, it makes you look like less of a fool.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 9:21 pm

    • Most Holohoaxsters fail to understand that the T4 gassing hoax is in fact devastating for the Holohoax itself, that nobody would gas people to death with bottle of pure carbon monoxide (100% CO) and THEN gas other people to death with engine exhaust (1-2%CO). Moronic backwards ‘science.’ Bad sci-fi…

      Comment by hermie — June 20, 2016 @ 5:06 pm

      • edit: read ‘bottles’ instead of ‘bottle’

        Comment by hermie — June 20, 2016 @ 5:08 pm

      • You would need to prove such. Not even FG would believe what you post hermie.

        Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 21, 2016 @ 8:52 pm

        • Click wrote: “You would need to prove such.”

          Do I need to prove that the inventors of train and car didn’t come at any moment with moronic ineffective square wheels, but that they just used the optimal round wheels of existing carts, when they designed their machines? Science just doesn’t work that way, i.e. like alleged Nazi homicidal gas chambers getting worse and worse.

          Click wrote: “Not even FG would believe what you post hermie.”

          So why do you waste your time commenting my allegedly-extravagant-&-unbelievable comments?

          Comment by hermie — June 22, 2016 @ 5:41 am

          • “Do I need to prove that the inventors of train and car didn’t come at any moment with moronic ineffective square wheels, but that they just used the optimal round wheels of existing carts, when they designed their machines? Science just doesn’t work that way, i.e. like alleged Nazi homicidal gas chambers getting worse and worse.”

            All evidence points to T4 gassings. This is different from what you have described.

            “So why do you waste your time commenting my allegedly-extravagant-&-unbelievable comments?”

            Because they deserve response….

            Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 22, 2016 @ 6:10 pm

            • Click wrote: “All evidence points to T4 gassings. This is different from what you have described.”

              How is it different from what I have described? Are you claiming that a weapon of mass murder moving from a gas with 100% carbon monoxide to a gas with 1-2% carbon monoxide is good science??? A similar pattern with Zyklon-B: an alleged death organizer moving from the sophisticated & efficient Nazi delousing gas chambers at his disposal to the [alleged] archaic and poorly designed Nazi homicidal gas chambers is backward science, crass ignorance about how science and technologies always work and move forward. Just how things work in the real world. No matter if that feels like a dumb Kula Column going through your ass or not.

              Click wrote: “Because they deserve response….”

              What tends to show that my comments are not as unbelievable as claimed by yourself. Chutzpah is not always enough…😉

              Comment by hermie — June 23, 2016 @ 1:57 am

              • “How is it different from what I have described? Are you claiming that a weapon of mass murder moving from a gas with 100% carbon monoxide to a gas with 1-2% carbon monoxide is good science??? ”

                This is related. The T4 program only used carbon monoxide bottles, if your trying to claim they moved on to diesel, then just stop there.

                “A similar pattern with Zyklon-B: an alleged death organizer moving from the sophisticated & efficient Nazi delousing gas chambers at his disposal to the [alleged] archaic and poorly designed Nazi homicidal gas chambers is backward science, crass ignorance about how science and technologies always work and move forward. ”

                Zyklon is out of the question at the moment, stop playing games. Were talking about Carbon monoxide bottles.

                “What tends to show that my comments are not as unbelievable as claimed by yourself. Chutzpah is not always enough…”

                Nah they are very unbelievable… They are even more unrelated then FG’s links are at times. I don’t plan to read over your past arguments so if we are going to discuss this perhaps you could keep on track.

                Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 10:28 am

                • You wrote: “The T4 program only used carbon monoxide bottles, if your trying to claim they moved on to diesel, then just stop there.”

                  AFAIK, the T4 program did not use carbon monoxice, nor diesel.

                  I wrote about the T4 program on this blog post.
                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/t4-program/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 23, 2016 @ 11:13 am

                • FG, T4 is quite well known for having their hands on Carbon monoxide bottles.

                  Lifton on page 71 says they used Carbon monoxide bottles….

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 11:18 am

                • Considering that the HoloHoax is the biggest scam that ever came down the pike I now think that use laughing gas in the gas Chambers.
                  Well at least the Jews were laughing all the way to the bank after……LOL

                  JR

                  Comment by jrizoli — June 23, 2016 @ 11:45 am

                • Jim and his humor, “laughing gas”. No humanity at all, and acts like a child still. He cannot even do his own research past a PDF that is provided to him for free, or to actually bother to read the actual writings of a historian.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 11:23 am

                • You wrote: “[Rizoli has] No humanity at all…”

                  You are completely wrong about Rizoli. He has interviewed the Holocaust experts and gotten first hand information about the Holocaust. He is an expert on the Holocaust.

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 24, 2016 @ 11:31 am

                • FG, interviewing people doesn’t mean he has and forum of humanity. It just means he talked to some with a camera recording him. It’s like me saying Charles Manson was a good guy cause he was interviewed before.

                  I wouldn’t call him a “expert” as he didn’t even know about the T4 program and hardly is willing to expand his knowledge. I see as him being an “Expert” he then should be able to quite easily dismiss the documents which I have presented to him, but he continues to play games. He doesn’t exactly has any research past Leuchter and Germar… That’s about it…

                  Also just cause he’s a so called “Expert” doesn’t mean what I said what incorrect ether, there is a difference between knowledge and being inhuman. Also mind that your quote is shaved down quite a bit FG, understand that my statement was directed at his humor.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 11:38 am

                • I’ve always looked at people that we call,”experts”,as just being people that “translate”. The dictionary defines “expert” as,” involving one who has authoritative knowledge”. I’m not saying people here are not experts . It’s just they still translate facts. This is on both sides. Both sides are closed minded here. So both sides are gonna be relentless. I saw Platoon. Oliver Stone was in country. He did his tour. He’s an expert on how combat will effect the individual. He still had to have a military advisor on the set. He hired Capt. Dale Dye (USMC ret.). I saw the movie. It was pretty accurate,but the advice Stone got,was coming from a bullet catcher. Combats the same for all grunts. You piss yoursel,get shot at and shoot back. Marines still experience the same thing,but their expertise on combat will differ from mine. That’s why when I watched Platoon,some of the shit Capt. Dye was an expert on,didn’t quite get it for me. It was just how a Marine translated the facts as compared to a “dog face”( army. Which was me). That’s why I’ll listen to the experts,but after I’ve studied it for awhile,I’ll pick the shit apart if it don’t jive. That’s why I bought up ,”how the soldiers were trained that ran the gas huts”. I don’t care who’s military machine it is,if they don’t train their soldiers,then they’re an extremely worthless military. Yes. Our DI’s tore us down and built us back up,so we’d think the way they wanted us to. Individuality is still encouraged,but there’s still a book everyone goes by. You don’t tweek or modify anything. That’s why I’m trying to find out how they trained the soldiers to operate the gas houses. It’s no different than training someone on how to diffuse a bomb. These are both deadly materials the soldiers are dealing with. You slip up,a second chance might not exist.

                  Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:00 pm

                • I think the California Board of Pardons and Paroles appreciated his honesty. He quit going to his hearings. I guess he got bored with being court jester. He’d make big arm movements. Jump around and talk about incoherent shit,but right before his time in front of them was up,he’d tell them,” you parole me,I’m gonna go back out and do the same shit that landed me in here in the first place”. He’s a piece of shit,but I admire his honesty. Last I heard,he’s getting married sometime this summer. Far as I know,the lady he is to marry,is sane.

                  Comment by Tim — June 24, 2016 @ 2:09 pm

                • I could imagine him as a good courthouse fool. As for his honesty, I do agree, he’s not going to stop till he looses his memory and will preach what he views as historic truth. And he is more then happy to openly say it as well.

                  As for myself, I’m most likely going to move on. That is what follows eventually with being an anti-Rev. I do enjoy having a Rodoh page which tries to complain about my use of documentation though.😄

                  As for him marrying someone sane, that’s good for him.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 24, 2016 @ 2:42 pm

                • Actually Miss Click,I’m questioning his “future wife’s ” sanity. I’m not trying to belittle her.but why anyone would want to marry Charlie is beyond me. Charlie’s boy Tex would make a better choice. What is “XD” please? Like I tell everyone,I’m technologically challenged. If it’s something that’s new,I’m gonna be lost. The only reason I’m able to keep up on some modern music,is because of my nephew. He works for me each summer while the university is out. He’s always playing music. All the calves like listening to Cypress Hill when we’re running them through the squeeze chute. My sires like their music a bit tougher . They like it when Sean put on Dead Horse or Pantera. Like the adage goes,” music to soothe the savage beast”. If you ever run across anything about the prison soldiers and what their training for operating the gas houses was,please let me know. I know I sound like a broken record there,but I’d like to see what kind of training they got for operating the gas huts

                  Comment by Tim — June 25, 2016 @ 6:19 am

                • Trust me, I’m sure she will eventually pretty much leave him to his beliefs and that’s it. I get your point though, I get it all to well. I’ll try and leave out faces, that is if it helps.

                  I like old music as well, but modern music isn’t exactly something I pay much attention to. I don’t exactly have to much room for any hobbies cause I decided to schedule my classes oddly. So pretty much ever 3 hours I have a class for a good amount of the time. Well this is only for every other day. It’s kind of hard to explain.

                  Here’s the brightside, you might be technically challenged, but your not mentally challenged like Jim.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 25, 2016 @ 6:30 am

                • Just checked and I have the page wrong, give me a minute.

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 12:06 pm

                • Oh yah I also forgot to mention a quote from “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals”. Page 1995-1996

                  “Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

                  A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen container, such as is used for welding – a hollow steel container.”

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 12:26 pm

                • I blogged about this here: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/t4-program/ the T4 program at https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/t4-program/

                  Comment by furtherglory — June 23, 2016 @ 2:50 pm

                • Alright, I get you blogged about it, but in what way do these links refute anything? I’m quite confused by your links as they both take to the same post about Americans claiming a new T4 program. I have given your something which states quite clearly that such gassings with Carbon monoxide bottles existed.

                  The Soviet’s also found bottles at Majdanek, which are part of the T4 program. The Soviet report is a good show of these bottles existing. The modern bottles there are not original, just as a quick warning. Anyone can see such from the difference from the engravings. As well no evidence exist of the Soviet’s placing the bottles in that room from what I am aware, though Carlo and Graf claim the Soviet’s did.

                  The evidence I have seen points to gassings happening. From the exact same person whom I quoted on the bottles says the following as well.

                  “Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what methods were the mercy deaths given?

                  A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written formalities were concluded – I need not repeat these formalities here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files, etc. The patients were led to a gas chamber and were there killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).”


                  Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the chambers?

                  A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler’s basic requirement was that the killing should not only be painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the photographing of the patients, which was only done for scientific reasons, took place before they entered the chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby. Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps 20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.”

                  Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — June 23, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

  10. The linked article is behind a paywall. I never got over/through the wall, cheap old codger that I am.

    Comment by Jett Rucker — June 19, 2016 @ 12:47 pm

    • What’s a “pay wall”? Don’t forget,technologically illiterate. I’m still trying to figure out how to set the clock on the VCR. Hey. I’m sitting here listening to “Stairway to Heaven “, from the concert they did at Madison Square Garden. Don’t expect me to go to far past the 70’s

      Comment by Tim — June 19, 2016 @ 4:20 pm

  11. I love it when people from out of nowhere come up with a new phrase or string a couple words together. People worship them as gods. The best part though is when they end up in obscurity.”could you see the day,could you feel your whole world fall apart and fade away?” A couple lines from an old song. It works perfect for those kind when other people put them on top of the garbage pile. Ya gotta admit,that’s even almost the case here. Either side starts talking about their “experts” and it’s almost like they lay a sacrifice at “their” alter. Even though these are written words here,I can hear the exuberance in their voice,when they speak of their heroic expert. A lot of people here get overzealous when they speak of their expert,so I just go off on my own to research the individual that is in question at that moment.

    Comment by Tim — June 19, 2016 @ 12:30 pm

  12. The banality of evil is definitely shown by the Holohoaxes in what they do to people like us to try to tell the truth. You don’t ban people in 19 countries for their opinions because they are lying you’ve ban and censor people in 19 countries because they’re telling the truth and you don’t want that. That’s the epitome of evil that these Holohucksters are guilty of. You can say what you want about all the facts, figures, this and that bottom line, this has to do with free speech and we have the right to give her opinion on a topic that we feel should be open for debate and not closed and censored like they’re doing.

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — June 19, 2016 @ 11:16 am

    • Great Revisionist site exposing the Holohuxsters

      http://www.whale.to/b/holocaust_revisionism.html

      JR

      Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 7:26 pm

      • I checked out the link that you posted. For some reason, I did not expect this to be a good source for revisionists — but then I clicked on some of the links and found that my own website is included among the sources for the articles.

        Comment by furtherglory — June 25, 2016 @ 8:09 pm

        • Well there you go, he recognize a great site when he saw it.

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 8:11 pm

      • http://www.whale.to/b/hallet_b.html

        He, he, he, he.
        Ha, ha, ha, ha,
        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Oh, my God. Hitler was a British agent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Holy shit, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!

        😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

        Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 8:45 pm

        • Here We Go Again throwing the baby out with the bathwater again I don’t have to agree with everybody with everything that they have to say but if they make a good point dealing with the topic that interests me then I stick with it but here you go again making fun of whatever else is person believes I don’t care what else this person believes I just care about this topic and that’s the topic you should be dealing with but then again you like to throw people off the trail just to show that this person might have some viewpoints that you might not agree with and that’s fine but it’s not really being honest you can’t agree with everybody 100%.
          Even a lot of the revisionist have other views that I don’t agree with but I still stick with them because I believe in what they say about revisionism. I try to be fair with people and I try not to judge them by other things that they might be involved in I don’t hold that against them.
          If I took that attitude I wouldn’t be talking to anybody or reading anything that they say including you.

          JR

          Comment by jrizoli — June 25, 2016 @ 8:58 pm

          • Hey, Jim, did you you know that Reinhard Heydrich was a homosexual?
            That Herman Goering was a transvestite? And a British agent?

            http://www.whale.to/b/goering_h.html

            Seriously, this is the funniest thing I’ve seen in awhile.

            Thanks, Jim.
            I appreciate the website.

            You should have told us that the people that set this up were joking.

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 9:07 pm

          • Hey, Jim?
            This photograph shows up on the website:

            The caption says “Prisoner of Auschwitz, 1938-1945.”

            One small problem, in 1938, there was no camp at Auschwitz. That was still Polish territory, Auschwitz was founded in 1940.

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 9:39 pm

      • http://www.whale.to/b/hallet_b.html

        He, he, he, he.
        Ha, ha, ha, ha,
        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Oh, my God. Hitler was a British agent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Holy shit, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!

        😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

        One more time, with feeling!!!!!!

        Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 8:46 pm

      • “his book covers Hitler’s incestuous parentage, his training in Britain, his sex with men, his bizarre sexual habits with women, including fake suicides and murders made to look like suicides. It delves into Hitler’s psychiatric condition and how, during his missing year, he was manipulated by ‘deconstruction’ to perform as a British Agent, that is, an agent for the British war machine. The book covers Hess and doppelgänger Hess’ simultaneous flight to Britain, Anthony Blunt’s conception by a royal, Wallis Simpson’s sexual practises with King Edward VIII and how she leaked British secrets to Hitler.

        Hitler was a British Agent covers Operation JAMES BOND to remove Martin Bormann out of Berlin and exposes for the first time Operation WINNIE THE POOH to remove Hitler out of Berlin. It reveals that the origins of the Cold War were in the hunt for the missing Hitler from 1 May 1945 and this became the excuse for surveillance in virtually every country in the world. Hitler was a British Agent leaves an air that everything that happens now, happens because of 1945.

        In the 18 chapters it covers the masterful deceptions of war, the creation of war, the training of top level double agents, the repeated faking of their deaths and their escapes, making this book something of an illusion-buster with applications to the analysis of war now and formulas for the time in between wars. The book explains how the ‘real’ history applies to the ‘real’ present. Many intelligence officers were interviewed in writing this book and they have given the low-down on what really happened in the many wars from 1936. In some cases, they, or their fathers, were the main players in the vignettes. These personal histories date back to the Spanish Civil War with George Orwell and redefine the origins of Animal Farm.”

        Oh, my God, I just laughed so hard I think I sprained a rib muscle.

        Seriously, I’ve just saved this site so that when I’m upset about something I can get a good laugh!!!!!

        😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😅😅😅😂😅😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😅😅

        1. Living Libraries
        “2. Adolf Hitler – The Incestuous Catholic Jew”

        Oh, shit, make it stop!!!!!!!!!
        😂😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😅

        3. Adolf Hitler in Britain
        4. Hitler’s Sexuality
        5. Hitler’s Psychiatric Condition
        6. Hitler’s Deconstruction
        7. Body Doubles
        8. Hess and Hess Fly to Britain
        9. Crashing the Duke of Kent
        10. Dunkirk
        11. James Bond
        12. Pearl Harbor
        13. Dieppe
        14. Anthony Blunt
        15. Wallis Simpson and King Edward VIII
        16. Operation james bond
        “17. Operation Winnie the Pooh”

        😂😂😂😅😂😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😅😅😂😅😅😅😅😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😅

        It’s follow up operation????????????

        OPERATION HONEY POT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        😂😂😂😅😅😂😂😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

        18. Lost Leaders
        “19. Churchill, Hitler and Stalin Work Together”

        OMFG!!!!!!!!!!
        😂😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😅😂😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

        Comment by Jeff K. — June 25, 2016 @ 8:55 pm


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