Scrapbookpages Blog

July 1, 2016

What really happened at Bergen-Belsen

Filed under: Germany, Holocaust, World War II — Tags: — furtherglory @ 7:18 pm

A reader of my blog put up this website about the liberation of Bergen-Belsen:

http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Trial/Trial/TrialProsecutionCase/Trial_009_Berney.html

On my website, I have a section about the British liberation of Bergen-Belsen, which tells the true story of what happened:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/BergenBelsen05.html

I also have these pages about Bergen Belsen on my website:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/BergenBelsen09

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/BergenBelsen05

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/ConcentrationCamp.html

There were two small towns in the area where the camp was located: Bergen and Belsen

If you decide to go there, and you want to take a bus to the camp, don’t tell the bus driver that you want to got to Bergen-Belsen. He will say “Which one? Bergen or Belsen?  Tell the driver that you want to go to the Memorial site at the former Belsen camp.

28 Comments »

  1. We’ve got a new multi-million dollar Holocaust museum in Seattle. The old one was a tiny non-descript storefront on 3rd Ave. I used to wait for busses in front of. It was never open, but you could peek in the window and see a glass case with a display of old books in it and some 8 X 10 photos in cheezy frames on the wall in there that never changed. It didn’t have business hours, but was open by appointment for school groups and Scouts earning their Holocaust homosexual martyrs merit badges. Now we have a proper museum with an entrance fee (or a donation box) and proper atrocity exhibits with themes that change every few months. We even have a cutting from the tree Ann Frank saw out of the window of her Annex in Amsterdam to visit and reflect on. The wonderful thing about these new additions to our growing city is the message of peace and tolerance they teach by searing the minds the young with morbid images and stories about the beastiality and horrors of war. The fact that profits from the memorialization of Jewish suffering in WWII go into the pockets of compassionate 2ist century prophets like Elie Wiesel and into arming Israel is another big plus. Thanks Jews! http://www.kplu.org/post/seattles-holocaust-center-humanity-hosts-anne-frank-exhibit

    Comment by who dares wings — July 2, 2016 @ 6:36 am

    • Thanks for telling us about the new Holocaust museum in Seattle. I read the news story about it and noticed this quote:
      “The exhibit shows how Otto Frank, Anne’s father, made the shrewd decision to leave Germany
      right away and move to the Netherlands.”

      Unfortunately, nothing is said about WHY he moved to the Netherlands. It was because he had been indited for bank fraud and would have been sent to prison if he hadn’t escaped from Germany. His brother was also a criminal who manged to escape to the USA. There were so many Jews escaping because of their criminal activity that America had to put a limit on how many we could take.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 2, 2016 @ 7:43 am

    • Umm… What?

      “Holocaust homosexual martyrs merit badges”

      What in all fucking hell are you going on about here? Really?

      Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 9:48 pm

      • Our resident artiste “Chuck Wings” saves the real “gems” for his FB page.

        Comment by Anonymous — July 3, 2016 @ 10:15 am

        • Oh great… That means it gets worse.

          Comment by Lóegaire — July 3, 2016 @ 10:42 pm

  2. Also according to a document on camp conditions there were reported cases of cannibalism. This is based off word of mouth of a doctor in the camp.

    “No. 2
    This was the largest men’s compound and contained approx 8,000. Typhus had commenced here at a later date than in Compound 1 and had now reached its peak. There were 266 cases and new cases were still occurring, but the medical members considered the worst was over. It was in this Compound that the story of cannibalism was reported to me by one of the doctors. There had been none for the last 2 days but before that there had been many cases.”

    Clicks witness describes a march which would be a living hell. Then after reaching a camp supposedly created for saving prisoners doesn’t actually even allow them to eat.

    “SPIEGEL: How did the German prison guards act?

    Sassoon: Brutally. One time I found a potato and wanted to bake it in the ashes of a fire. A female prison guard saw me and told me very kindly to put my hand nearer the fire so that I could warm myself. She was a very impressive. A tall, blue-eyed woman. I can still picture her beautiful white teeth. Suddenly she slammed her boot down on my small hand into the fire. My fingers were crushed and all the skin was burnt. A horrific pain shot through my body. People told me later that this must have been the infamous Irma Grese. I didn’t know women could be so cruel.”

    http://m.spiegel.de/international/a-435884.html

    Yes I do understand this witness was given aid but it still doesn’t matter much. The Germans were not giving prisoners aid until they reached the camp, and she was only saved by French prisoners whom were passing by on their way to the same camp. The Germans had shot her from the start.

    And it doesn’t just end there. If one looks at the trial transcripts the see Starvation is a common theme… As well more diseases then just Typhus.

    ” Q: What were the main diseases from which the internees were suffering?

    A: Every form of disease was prevalent, but the ones mainly responsible for the frightful conditions were typhus, starvation and tuberculosis.

    Q: What were the causes of the diseases?

    A:The privation and suffering which they had gone through. The typhus was brought in on 5th February by 2000, I think, Hungarian prisoners and it then raged through the camp, and conditions were absolutely suitable for it. The same with tuberculosis

    ….

    Q: The next one?

    A: …It shows one woman in her last stages of emaciation with swollen feet, which you get in starvation. The last one shows another woman too weak to lift herself up, and one other also in extreme emaciation alongside showing consideration for her. Their faces look clean, but in fact they were all filthy…

    Q: Do you ascribe that to apathy?

    A: It was difficult to say whether typhus, starvation or tuberculosis was responsible for the condition, but primarily starvation and privation must have been the reason.

    Q: Is typhus a wasting disease?

    A: It is.

    Q: Can you tell us what is the effect of starvation on the mind of the victim as opposed to the body?

    A: If I might describe what I think was the attitude of the internees to the starvation, it would be that first of all they saw their relations or friends starving they would help them, they would do all they could to provide food which they could not get themselves. Later, as they got worse themselves they probably went and only looked after their children or their nearest and dearest, and not their friends, and later they became so lost to all possibility of help that they only looked after themselves and finally they died”

    (Trial Day 2)

    http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/TrialTranscript/Trial_Day_002.html#Day02_Hughes

    In day two alone of the trial we get the most revealing quote. I will star out the area of important.

    “Q: Do you ascribe that to apathy?

    A: It was difficult to say whether typhus, starvation or tuberculosis was responsible for the condition, *but primarily starvation and privation must have been the reason.*”

    Right above we see from just the 2nd day of the trial that starvation is put at the major blame. According to Clicks source food was far from scarce in the region.

    “Major A. L. BERNEY, sworn, examined by Colonel BACKHOUSE.

    I am with 817 Military Government Detachment. On 15th April I was sent by Headquarters 8 Corps to Colonel Taylor of the Occupying Forces of the Belsen Camp. Colonel Taylor and Brigadier Glyn Hughes were in charge. On the next day I was told to find the nearest food store, which I did at the north of the Panzer Troop School about three kilometres from the camp. I found the Hauptmann in charge of the store who informed me that he was responsible for sending some food from his store to the camp . potatoes and turnips. He did not give me any reason as to why that was the only stuff supplied. I obtained a list of food in the store from him, and remember there were 600 tons of potatoes, 120 tons of tinned meat, 30 tons of sugar, upwards of 20 tons of powdered milk; cocoa, grain, wheat and other foodstuffs.

    Q: Did you find whether there was a bakery there or not?

    A: Yes. There is a very large bakery there with a capacity, I was told, of 60,000 loaves a day, which was completely staffed. It appeared to me that there was a very vast quantity of all the necessary materials available for making bread. The bakery is still working now and most of the staff are the same.

    Q: From your investigation of the stocks available, was there any reason why Camp No 1 should not have been supplied with food?

    A: I cannot see any conceivable reason.”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100216124714/http://www.mazal.org/OtherTrials/BelsenTrial/T053.htm

    I’m sure we all can agree that it most likely has inflation in it in areas. Even so with Kramer’s testimony the following above acts as a rebuttal. Even THHP has taken up onto using the testimony as well in their quick facts section.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150905111720/http://www.holocaust-history.org/quick-facts/belsen-food.shtml

    It seems though that the testimony of food stock up also has backing, from the exact same man who mentioned starvation.

    “Q: You said there were five cookhouses. Do you know which cookhouse cooked for which camps?

    A: I did not go round them in detail after we took over, but I should have said two were for men, two for women, and one in the middle was a communal one for both men and women. That is my impression.

    Q: Where was the food store?

    A: There were various food stores alongside the cookhouses, and I think there was another one on the left hand side as you went down through the area. There was a German supply depot a little from the camp.”

    And given by both Click and THHP we see what those food stores held. Though keep in mind the witness I have used from day two also says he was unable to feed every prisoner. I thought I should point this out to not be exactly selective with his testimony. From what is known though, non of the guards appear to have starved. So I would say that it’s far from the adverage claim of allied bombings.

    I think one really only needs to read number 6 of “how to be a revisionist scholar” to understand the prime issue that is at hand.

    “6. Oh Sorry, I Ate the Last One — Claim that Jews and other prisoners were not intentionally starved, that they were victims of food shortages just like everybody else. When it is pointed out that neither the camp guards nor people living in the vicinity of the camps starved to death, just claim that this does not prove there was an intentional starvation policy, and that if there is no piece of paper with a written order to starve people, then no starvation occurred.”

    http://www.phdn.org/archives/einsatzgruppenarchives.com/revisionism.html

    While it’s not exactly the direct issue that’s at hand, it shows quite clearly the absurdity of starvation in the camps.

    But the Issue of handing out food doesn’t end there!

    “MEMBER OF THE COURT: I want to be clear about the food situation. Can you tell the Court whether the food supplies actually in the camp but not issued were sufficient to feed the internees for a period?

    A: Yes, for the period of meals. As I explained, I think they must have been replenished at intervals, but there were stocks in the cookhouse which would have supplied meals daily.

    Q: For a day or two?

    A: Yes.

    Q: Can you tell us where the nearest supply depot used for the camp was, and whether there was a good supply in it?

    A:It was within two miles, I think.

    Q: Was there a good supply?

    A: I understand so. I did not actually see myself.”

    http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/TrialTranscript/Trial_Day_003.html#Day03_Hughes

    This is the day after saying he couldn’t feed everyone cause of a lack of supplies. It could be argued that it’s poor management, but it’s stated quite clearly that no issue of starvation should have existed! And in the end we have reports of canablism. Nothing here sound like it works out.

    Comment by Lóegaire — July 1, 2016 @ 9:54 pm

    • *cannibalism

      Comment by Lóegaire — July 1, 2016 @ 9:55 pm

    • Lóegaire produces a document saying;- ” It was in this compound that the story of cannibalism was reported to me by one of the doctors.”

      This statement is certainly not conclusive proof that cannibalism took place. This witness did not see any evidence of cannibalism himself, but he is just repeating what he claims an un-named doctor told him.

      Lóegaire continues with a piece of transcript from the trial or tribunal;-

      ” Can you tell the Court whether the food supplies actually in the camp but not issued were sufficient to feed the internees for a period?

      A: Yes, for the period of meals. As I explained, I think they must have been replenished at intervals, but there were stocks in the cookhouse which would have supplied meals daily.

      Q: For a day or two?

      A: Yes.

      Q: Can you tell us where the nearest supply depot used for the camp was, and whether there was a good supply in it?

      A:It was within two miles, I think.

      Q: Was there a good supply?

      A: I understand so. I did not actually see myself ”

      Once again, we are presented with very poor witness testimony. He says “…I think they must have been replenished…” – in other words he’s speculating; he doesn’t know with any certainty at all.

      He’s then asked where was the nearest supply depot; and he can only reply with a vague suggestion, that “…it was within two miles, I think…”. He is so unsure of himself that he has to add the words “I think”.

      But his testimony is blown completely out of the water when he admits “…I did not actually see myself…”

      So his testimony is pure hearsay – of the kind that was so readily accepted in all these post-war trials and tribunals.

      Comment by Talbot — July 2, 2016 @ 7:54 am

      • “This statement is certainly not conclusive proof that cannibalism took place. This witness did not see any evidence of cannibalism himself, but he is just repeating what he claims an un-named doctor told him.”

        Eye witness accounts need to be taken into account Tal… Every modern court takes eye witnesses into consideration. Also lack of evidence may not exist, If multiple reports do exist then one can conclude that there was cannibalism inside the camp. Here you are showing your lack of searching out for anything. I am not saying you have to but its quite well implied that if Its not presented right away, then it doesn’t exist. This is based off the English report on camp conditions, and if I took the time I could most likely find a good amount of material on the food stock. As well Clicks witness shows quite well that the Germans were not exactly giving everyone a “Fair share” of food. Especially when one gets smacked in the head for attempting to cook a potato.

        “Once again, we are presented with very poor witness testimony. He says “…I think they must have been replenished…” – in other words he’s speculating; he doesn’t know with any certainty at all.”

        This “very poor witness testimony” would most likely need someone to go against him, as while he may be “speculating” his statement seems backed up by the testimony given by click on food storage.

        “He’s then asked where was the nearest supply depot; and he can only reply with a vague suggestion, that “…it was within two miles, I think…”. He is so unsure of himself that he has to add the words “I think”.”

        How exactly does him not knowing the exact distance prove anything? I don’t know the exact distance from my dorm to my parents house… on a off head estimate I would say 2 and a half miles… But that doesn’t mean that its exactly two and a half miles. Hes giving an off hand estimate on distance. Ether way it shows food was within a reasonable distance of the camp…

        As well clicks witness says the following.

        “On the next day I was told to find the nearest food store, which I did at the north of the Panzer Troop School about from the camp. I found the Hauptmann in charge of the store who informed me that he was responsible for sending some food from his store to the camp . potatoes and turnips. He did not give me any reason as to why that was the only stuff supplied. I obtained a list of food in the store from him, and remember there were 600 tons of potatoes, 120 tons of tinned meat, 30 tons of sugar, upwards of 20 tons of powdered milk; cocoa, grain, wheat and other foodstuffs.”

        three kilometres is 1.8 miles Tal, so don’t try and play the “He didn’t know the exact distance” game. He guessed two miles and that is confirmed by Barney.

        “But his testimony is blown completely out of the water when he admits “…I did not actually see myself…””

        Umm… No its not… Its a show quite well that he only managed the camp and couldn’t go to see these stocks. It doesn’t mean his testimony is created invalid, as well this could even be a defensive lie. Eichmann did this quite a bit at his own trial… Its to try and make less guilt appear on your part.

        “So his testimony is pure hearsay – of the kind that was so readily accepted in all these post-war trials and tribunals.”

        Some of it is, but again as already explained he could have done it as a “defensive lie”. He seems to know quite well how far the closest food stock is as shown above and it was confirmed by Barney… As well he has alerted us that the Bakery has enough supplies to create two days worth of meals for all the prisoners. He seems more informed then he makes it seem. This is also quite beside the point as He also states Starvation was a major cause of death, and this wasn’t based off hearsay.

        All this and yet FG would like us to only believe it was Typhus as she claimed to Click “No one was starved in Bergen-Belsen”. We see quite clearly here that people were starved. Mind that this has only scratched the surface of the trial. I have yet to read more in the transcript.

        Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 9:24 am

        • In the circumstances, I think its reasonable to ask if there is any German documentation – or any conclusive proof at all – that such food stocks and a bakery existed on anything like the scale that is being alleged by these very unconvincing witnesses.

          And would it not be a good idea for the holocaust proponents to produce a map or a plan showing the location of this food store and bakery? Vague descriptions of “north of the Panzer Training School” might well have satisfied the military tribunals and the remarkable series of court trials back in the late-1940’s – but they don’t satisfy me today.

          Comment by Talbot — July 2, 2016 @ 9:53 am

          • “In the circumstances, I think its reasonable to ask if there is any German documentation – or any conclusive proof at all – that such food stocks and a bakery existed on anything like the scale that is being alleged by these very unconvincing witnesses.”

            Exactly why Click told you to contact the Bergen-Belsen Memorial Museum. She nor I plans to slave away answering all your demands on such a Minor camp… And whats “unconvincing” to you is evidence to another person Tal. Cause not everyone in this world just looks and says “I don’t agree with this person, therefor they are telling lies.”

            So far you have ignored a convergence of evidence… If you want to see an example of how convergence of evidence works then you can read about it here.

            http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-convergence-of-evidence-works-gas.html

            “And would it not be a good idea for the holocaust proponents to produce a map or a plan showing the location of this food store and bakery? Vague descriptions of “north of the Panzer Training School” might well have satisfied the military tribunals and the remarkable series of court trials back in the late-1940’s – but they don’t satisfy me today.”

            There might be one… But Search out for it yourself…. Just cause I don’t answer every last one of your demands doesn’t mean you cannot look this stuff out for yourself Tal. They have camp maps for places like dachau that label out buildings… Don’t make complaints like this before looking out for them. As I have advised.

            Its not that its Vague ether, Its a school which was 1.8 miles away, read my post already. Both witnesses confirm that within two miles there was a food source. Since the witness says people starved and that it was his job to hand out food that puts blame on him. He knew of these stocks but didn’t do a thing to get them based off from the quotes I have provided. According to the man who searched out for food the Germans should have been able to feed the prisoners.

            Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 11:41 am

          • “In the circumstances, I think its reasonable to ask if there is any German documentation – or any conclusive proof at all – that such food stocks and a bakery existed on anything like the scale that is being alleged by these very unconvincing witnesses.’

            Just ask the Museum as Click already directed you to do, as we don’t intend to do every last bit of research for you. It doesn’t matter if your “Unconvinced” cause so far your completely ignoring testimony of a German… Don’t just toss it down the shoot.

            Every modern court would accept witness testimony as evidence, for some reason you don’t… Its most likely cause it doesn’t agree with you.

            “And would it not be a good idea for the holocaust proponents to produce a map or a plan showing the location of this food store and bakery? Vague descriptions of “north of the Panzer Training School” might well have satisfied the military tribunals and the remarkable series of court trials back in the late-1940’s – but they don’t satisfy me today.”

            Find a map yourself or ask the Memorial Museum.

            Its already been worked out that this military station was 2 miles away…Its proven to be quite accurate.

            Three kilometres is 1.8 miles Tal, so don’t try and play the “He didn’t know the exact distance” game. He guessed two miles and that is confirmed by Barney.

            I don’t intend to draw you a map ether.

            Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 12:21 pm

        • I don’t believe it was deliberate starvation that caused all these deaths at Belsen. It may be the case that some inmates were beginning to suffer from malnutrition as more and more prisoners arrived on marches from the east, and the Germans found it difficult to supply enough food to keep everybody adequately fed.

          No, I think FG is correct that Typhus took hold of the camp, and this debilitating killer disease was magnified exponentially by rampant dysentery. You see – what happened was – the gallant Allied airmen, once the ground forces had successfully crossed over the Rhine, were given the go ahead to shoot up anything and everything that looked like a target. These aircraft had destroyed Belsen’s fresh water supply system, which meant that the inmates were reduced to drinking contaminated water. Dysentry was therefore the indirect result of reckless Allied military actions.

          Comment by Talbot — July 2, 2016 @ 10:45 am

          • “I don’t believe it was deliberate starvation that caused all these deaths at Belsen. It may be the case that some inmates were beginning to suffer from malnutrition as more and more prisoners arrived on marches from the east, and the Germans found it difficult to supply enough food to keep everybody adequately fed.”

            According to FG there was no starvation almost.. It was basically all Typhus according to her, and its hardly anything of an argument to say the germans wouldn’t be able to drive two miles to get food. They as well also had food inside the camp.

            Here is a complete Transcript of Clicks Witness, it might fill in some of your “holes”.

            “What is your present appointment? – I am with 817 Military Government Detachment.

            What was your appointment on the 15th April? – I was sent by Headquarters 8 Corps to Colonel Taylor of the occupying forces of the camp to help him and liaise between that regiment and 8 Corps.

            What time did you arrive at Belsen Camp? – About 1700 hours.

            Who was in charge of matters when you got there? – Colonel Taylor and Brigadier Glyn-Hughes.

            What was the first duty that was given to you? – To go back to 8 Corps that night with a message and return the next day.

            When you came back the following day what duty were you assigned to then? – I was told by Brigadier Sewell of 8 Corps to find any local food dump.

            Brigadier Sewell was, I think, the D.A. & Q.M.G. of 8 Corps? – Yes.

            Where did you find the nearest food store? – At the north of the Panzer Troop School.

            How far is that from the camp roughly? – About three kilometres.

            Did you find any German officers there? – Yes, I found the Hauptmann in charge of the store.

            Did you speak to him? – Yes.

            Did he give you any information as to where Camp No. 1 drew its food supply? – Yes, I understand he was responsible for sending some food from his store to the camp.

            Did he tell you what type of food he had supplied the camp? – Yes, potatoes and turnips.

            Did he tell you whether he had supplied anything in addition to those potatoes and turnips? – No.

            Did he give you any reason why that was the only stuff supplied? – No.

            Did you obtain a list of food in the store? – Yes.

            Can you remember any details of the food which was in the store? – Yes, I remember potatoes, 600 tons; tin meat, 120 tons; sugar, 30 tons, and I cannot remember the exact details of any of the others.

            Was there any powdered milk there? – Yes, a considerable quantity.

            When you say “considerable quantity”, are you speaking in terms of tins or tons? – Tons, as far as I can remember; upwards of 20 tons.

            Were there any other types of foodstuff beside the ones you have told us about? – Yes, there was cocoa, grain, wheat and other foodstuffs which I cannot remember.

            Did you find whether there was a bakery there or not? – Yes. There Is a very large bakery there.

            What was the capacity of that bakery? – I was told 60000 loaves a day.

            Was the bakery staffed? – Yes, it was completely staffed.

            Was it stocked? – Yes, there was a considerable quantity of already made bread and all the necessary materials for making bread.

            In what sort of quantity were those materials are available? – I cannot estimate, but it appeared to me a very vast quantity. I can give you no estimate in tons.

            Do you know whether that bakery is still working now? – Yes, it is.

            The same staff working there? – Most of them are the same, yes.

            From your investigation of the stocks available was there any reason why Camp No. 1 should not have been supplied with food? – I cannot see any conceivable reason.'”

            Brigadier Glyn-Hughes is also the man who said Starvation was the major killer in the camp.

            Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 11:46 am

            • There are two sides to everything. In the case of the Holocaust, there are two sides to every story. I have a whole section about Bergen-Belsen on my website at http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/ConcentrationCamp.html

              My website version of the Bergen-Belsen story is the denier version, not the kosher version.

              Comment by furtherglory — July 2, 2016 @ 11:55 am

              • Its also far from what one might call “accurate” as well.

                I can tell you for sure its the revisionist side. It still doesn’t change a thing though that the witnesses even the german’s clearly state “STARVATION”… Not just typhus.

                Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 12:00 pm

              • It also might be nice to add this portion of Barney’s testimony from Day 3 as well of the trial.

                “Q: Did you ever see any guard help or assist any of the prisoners?

                A: Never. May I add that guards in the concentration camp – I am talking in general when I say this – are brutish and the prisoners in time become brutish and such a thing as human kindness is quite unknown in such a place. Could I add one more statement?

                Q:Yes.

                A: I would like to try to make everyone realise how first starvation, absolute starvation, secondly, no water at all for some six days, thirdly, lack of sleep – I could only snatch two or three hours sleep, maybe not so much; we had no watches to time ourselves – sleep near the burial pits was quite impossible, fourthly, to be covered in lice and delousing oneself three or four times a day absolutely useless. If one sat inside or outside one was still covered within five or ten minutes. Then the fatalistic attitude between the prisoners towards what the end would certainly be, the crematorium or the pits. Add to this the foul stench and vileness of the place, the scenes which apparently horrified the whole of the world, which we saw by the whole of daylight day by day. The blows on the head, the hideous work and, in the last three days, the Hungarian guards shooting at us just as if we were rabbits from all directions. If you can picture all this, the sum total as it were, hitting a man always, then maybe you will get a remote inkling of what life was like in Belsen in those last three days.

                Cross-examined by MAJOR WINWOOD: What was the condition of the other prisoners who arrived at Belsen with you?

                A: I do not know exactly how many died, but I know that many did. About 150 of us all told reached Belsen, only a remnant, and I know that many thousands died in these ten days.

                Q: What was their condition when they first got to Belsen?

                A: Most of the Kommandos arrived by marching there and were pretty fit.”

                Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 12:08 pm

                • I quoted a lot of the testimony in the Belsen trial on my website at
                  http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/BergenBelsen09.html

                  I don’t know anything about Barney’s testimony on day 3. What did he or she say?

                  Comment by furtherglory — July 2, 2016 @ 12:17 pm

                • That the camp had a food source for then able to feed the population of the camp, and that Brigadier Glynn-Hughes should have been able to prevent the large amounts of death by starvation… As well that they camp could have been sanitized but that the Germans didn’t take correct efforts and were quite brutal to their Inmates.

                  “Q: Do you ascribe that to apathy?

                  A: It was difficult to say whether typhus, starvation or tuberculosis was responsible for the condition, *but primarily starvation and privation must have been the reason.*”

                  -Glynn-Hughes

                  He put starvation as a primary issue of the camp, though he does also mention Typhus quite a bit. And sure, you may have written about it, but Its better for one to forum their own opinion. I’m still reading the transcripts and starvation is a common theme of death. A very common theme.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 12:26 pm

                • I’m rather confused here – is this “Barney” you refer to, the same guy as Major A.L, Berney, who claimed he was part of the 817 military Government Detachment?. Because if he is – then he seems to be giving testimony as one of the former inmates.

                  Comment by Talbot — July 2, 2016 @ 12:31 pm

                • Yand same person TAl.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 12:49 pm

                • So is that how low the Allied investigator’s sunk back during those years in order to gather up enough evidence to convict the Germans at Belsen?

                  That they would get hold of some low-level military officer to masquerade as a former inmate and then blab out all kinds of untruthful stories at this tribunal.

                  Dear, oh, dear – this situation is so shameful, that it is beneath anyone’s dignity and integrity to discus his testimony any further.

                  Comment by Talbot — July 2, 2016 @ 1:07 pm

                • *Yeah same person tal

                  And as for your response.

                  “So is that how low the Allied investigator’s sunk back during those years in order to gather up enough evidence to convict the Germans at Belsen?”

                  You need to prove the allies were lying about Belsen Tal… Cause the court concluded quite well that they were guilty of crimes at the camp. Starving the prisoners being one of those crimes.

                  “That they would get hold of some low-level military officer to masquerade as a former inmate and then blab out all kinds of untruthful stories at this tribunal. ”

                  Umm… Tal, this doesn’t have any evidence backing it… Well meaning that Berney was lying.

                  “Dear, oh, dear – this situation is so shameful, that it is beneath anyone’s dignity and integrity to discus his testimony any further.”

                  Same issue with your logic as always Tal.

                  Guess what it is?

                  No evidence.

                  Comment by Lóegaire — July 2, 2016 @ 1:18 pm

    • Loegaire wrote: “It seems though that the testimony of food stock up also has backing, from the exact same man who mentioned starvation.”

      So as if the fact that both claims are solely based on testimonies (i.e. the lowest form of evidence in the whole universe) was not enough to have a good laugh, both claims were told by the very same guy.😮😮😮

      Since actions are always more telling than words, one should know that all the British actions after the capture of Belsen indicate a mega typhus epidemics rather than a starvation and even less a deliberate starvation. The Brits planted Typhus warning signs everywhere around Belsen. They burned down the barracks of the camp without delay (fire is of no use to combat starvation, but it’s very efficient to combat epidemics), even if such barracks would have been very useful for them (since Belsen was a British DP camp for years after the war). Almost immediately, they unceremoniously dumped and bulldozed the dead bodies into mass graves (a hurry and a harsh burial policy caused by the fear of contagious corpses). They spread DDT powder on all the inmates of the camp (of no use to combat starvation, but very efficient to combat typhus-carrying lice). And the fact that the British ‘capture’ of the Belsen camp was requested by the German authorities themselves doesn’t say ‘death camp through deliberate starvation’ either…

      In winter 1945, the victorious Allies were able to prevent a similar catastrophe from taking place on a continental scale only through the supply of vast amounts of money and resources from abroad.

      Comment by hermie — July 3, 2016 @ 10:22 am

      • No…. News papers are the lowest form of evidence.

        Comment by Lóegaire — July 3, 2016 @ 10:43 pm

  3. This doesn’t seem to effect Clicks argument that the prisoners were not provided food.

    Comment by Lóegaire — July 1, 2016 @ 8:18 pm

    • * sufficient amounts of food.

      Comment by Lóegaire — July 1, 2016 @ 8:18 pm

  4. That’s not where I got it… But alright.

    Comment by Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Click Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ — July 1, 2016 @ 7:59 pm


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