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July 13, 2016

Elie Wiesel — a Holocaust icon everywhere but Poland

Filed under: Germany, Holocaust — Tags: — furtherglory @ 9:26 am

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.730246

The following quote is from the news article, cited above:

Begin quote

Wiesel’s Holocaust memoir, “Night,” isn’t on the Polish school curriculum, says Jakub Nowakowski, director of Krakow’s Galicia Jewish Museum, who hosts teacher-training seminars on how to educate about the Holocaust, adding, “It wasn’t even translated into Polish until the mid 1990s, and only in a limited edition. It wasn’t readily available until 2007.”

Poles have their own canon of Holocaust literature taught at school, such as “Medallions,” by Zofia Nałkowska, “Conversations with an Executioner,” by Kazimierz Moczarski; and “This Way for the Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen,” by Tadeusz Borowski.

End quote

There may be a few people, living in a cave somewhere, who don’t know the name Tadeusz Borowski. I wrote about him on this blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/tadeusz-borowski-auschwitz-survivor/

50 Comments »

  1. @Hermie:
    Jeff wrote: “I almost 💩 myself. “Wait, you were kidding, right?”

    “No, I was not. And you know it. But you also know that if you accept a normal burden of proof for the ‘Holocaust,’ the myth is dead within 10 minutes.”

    Uh, no.
    The problem is that your only response to any evidence I give (or Click gives, or Anonymous gives, etc.) is to squawk “Forgery!!!” Like a demented parrot. When I ask you for evidence the response I get is “I don’t have to give you evidence, I’m a denier.”
    That’s not the way history works. That’s not the way that science works, either, or any other discipline you can name, like sociology or economics. If deniers want to go from being “deniers” to “revisionists” then they have to provide proof of their alternate theories.
    You want me to believe that the Nazis deported millions of Jews into the Soviet Union? Fine. Show me proof of this camp system. You want me to believe that Rudenko’s camps were filled with foreign Jews? Fine. Show me proof.

    “So you just flee as if there was anything funny in my argument.”

    When do I flee? Hell, you and are exchanging comments over a post what? Two weeks old?

    “Why not? It will maybe impress dumb bimbos such as Click after all…”

    I sense pent up frustration. Are you upset because a woman kicked your ass?

    Jeff wrote: “Hermie, regardless of ol’ Elie’s tattoo, Anne Frank’s diary is genuine. Not even our esteemed hostess denies that the diary is real. Besides, history isn’t built on a girl’s diary or an old man’s tattoo. That’s just weird denier nitpicking over a girl who’s been dead for what, 71 years? Frankly, I could care less about either. I’ve never read Anne Frank’s Diary, it was never a requirement in any class I took. The same goes for “Night,” I’ve never read it and I don’t intend to. If I was going to read something like that I’d probably read Primo Levy, I understand his writing is excellent. However, those type of books have no interest for me. I prefer my history without the drama.”

    “But the masses don’t read Hilberg’s and Browning’s books.”

    I don’t care what the “masses” do.

    “They just watch movies about Anne Frank and TV shows with Wiesel teaching cheap philosophy to Oprah at Auschwitz.”

    That’s their problem, not mine.

    “For them, the ‘Holocaust’ is roughly what Anne Frank and Elie Wiesel said, together with impressive pics of victims of the Belsen health disaster and specific scenes of Schindler’s List.”

    So? My father-in-law worked as an Assistant District Attorney for years. One of the things that pissed him off was how shows like “CSI” skewed juries opinions about forensic science. Because of shows like “CSI” juries thought that CSI departments solved crimes in a day.
    It’s the same thing with history. People get their history (not just about the Holocaust or WW II) from shows put on the history channel. Is that my fault? No. Is that the fault of actual historians? No. TV is about ratings, ratings are about interest. Drama draws ratings.
    So, I don’t care what the masses do. If they don’t want to pick up a book, that’s sad. But that goes for many subjects besides history.

    Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 7:50 am

    • Jeff wrote: “When I ask you for evidence the response I get is “I don’t have to give you evidence, I’m a denier.” That’s not the way history works. That’s not the way that science works, either”

      Of course that’s the way science works. A thing becomes a fact only after it was demonstrated through observation and/or experiment. Prior to that moment, a hypothesis remains a mere theory. Ever heard a scientist say “My theory is valid but unfortunately the evil Nazis destroyed all evidence of it”? He would be kicked out in the minute. Holohoaxsters are in fact the cryptozoologists of historical research…

      Jeff wrote: “I sense pent up frustration. Are you upset because a woman kicked your ass?”

      Would you be kind enough to show me where Click kicked my ass?

      Jeff wrote: “So, I don’t care what the masses do. ”

      Not the revisionists’ fault that you are an elitist disdainful piece of shit…

      Comment by hermie — July 14, 2016 @ 8:25 am

      • hermie commented on Elie Wiesel — a Holocaust icon everywhere but Poland.

        in response to Jeff K.:

        @Hermie: Jeff wrote: “I almost 💩 myself. “Wait, you were kidding, right?” “No, I was not. And you know it. But you also know that if you accept a normal burden of proof for the ‘Holocaust,’ the myth is dead within 10 minutes.” Uh, no. The problem is that your only response to any evidence […]

        Jeff wrote: “When I ask you for evidence the response I get is “I don’t have to give you evidence, I’m a denier.” That’s not the way history works. That’s not the way that science works, either”

        “Of course that’s the way science works. A thing becomes a fact only after it was demonstrated through observation and/or experiment. Prior to that moment, a hypothesis remains a mere theory. Ever heard a scientist say “My theory is valid but unfortunately the evil Nazis destroyed all evidence of it”? He would be kicked out in the minute. Holohoaxsters are in fact the cryptozoologists of historical research…”

        Let’s put this in denier terms:
        Your “theory” is that instead of killing them the Nazis deported the Jews en masse to the Soviet Union.

        Fine. Evidence time. You need to support your theory.

        Jeff wrote: “I sense pent up frustration. Are you upset because a woman kicked your ass?”

        “Would you be kind enough to show me where Click kicked my ass?”

        What, you don’t remember? It was hysterical. She brought evidence that you tried to refute with newspaper articles.

        Jeff wrote: “So, I don’t care what the masses do. ”

        “Not the revisionists’ fault that you are an elitist disdainful piece of shit…”

        That’s funny, coming from you.
        You used the word masses, not me. You refer to people as “sheep,” not me.
        Most people don’t care about history, Hermie. That’s a fact.

        Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 8:34 am

        • Jeff wrote: “Your “theory” is that instead of killing them the Nazis deported the Jews en masse to the Soviet Union.”

          No, I don’t take your Stalinist ‘justice’ and you know it, Jeff. The only theory relevant in this field is your theory is that the Nazis killed 5-6 million Jews, mainly in gas chambers. Accuser’s burden of proof. Remember? Nobody needs to disprove your theory as long as its evidence file is as empty as it is. Who needs to prove that no tall hominid ‘haunts’ the forests of North America as long as Bigfoot hunters keep providing us with evidence so crappy after all?

          Jeff wrote: “What, you don’t remember? It was hysterical. She brought evidence that you tried to refute with newspaper articles.”

          The Daily Telegraph thing, I see. That was very funny. Her denial that the 1942 paper was patently a mere rehash of a 1916 paper of atrocity propaganda, was hilarious. Her mongoloid “the dates were different” almost killed me. Embarrassing…for her. Very embarrrassing. I can’t believe you failed to see that.

          Comment by hermie — July 14, 2016 @ 4:52 pm

          • Jeff wrote: “Your “theory” is that instead of killing them the Nazis deported the Jews en masse to the Soviet Union.”

            “No, I don’t take your Stalinist ‘justice’ and you know it, Jeff.”

            WTF does that have to do with anything?
            Deniers postulate that instead of killing them the Nazis sent the Jews East. There’s no evidence of that. Because deniers are offering an alternate history it is up to them to prove it. I don’t give a shit about rhetoric or posturing, my challenge is for some denier to FILL IN this gap in their theory. The deportations of the Jews is a historical fact, no one denies them. If they didn’t die, where did they go, what was their destination?

            “The only theory relevant in this field is your theory is that the Nazis killed 5-6 million Jews, mainly in gas chambers.”

            WRONG. About half of the Jews died this way. The rest died due to starvation, disease, mistreatment and mass shootings. Holy crap, do you know anything about the history you are trying to debunk?

            “Accuser’s burden of proof.”

            Rhetoric.

            “Remember? Nobody needs to disprove your theory as long as its evidence file is as empty as it is.”

            Denier bullshit. No, Hermie, this makes deniers look like petulant children. Wah, we don’t have to prove anything, we expect you to swallow our bullshit whole without proof.
            Sorry, things don’t work that way.

            “Who needs to prove that no tall hominid ‘haunts’ the forests of North America as long as Bigfoot hunters keep providing us with evidence so crappy after all?”

            Jeff wrote: “What, you don’t remember? It was hysterical. She brought evidence that you tried to refute with newspaper articles.”

            “The Daily Telegraph thing, I see. That was very funny. Her denial that the 1942 paper was patently a mere rehash of a 1916 paper of atrocity propaganda, was hilarious. Her mongoloid “the dates were different” almost killed me. Embarrassing…for her. Very embarrrassing. I can’t believe you failed to see that.”

            To be honest, I stopped paying attention.

            Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 5:29 pm

            • Jeff wrote: “Because deniers are offering an alternate history it is up to them to prove it. […] The deportations of the Jews is a historical fact, no one denies them. If they didn’t die, where did they go, what was their destination? ”

              No, Jeff. The Holocaust conspiracy theory is an alternate theory. Even yourself can’t swallow, I’m sure, the crap that a kangaroo court NOT “bound by technical rules of evidence” “taking judicial notice” of some victors’ “facts of common knowledge” (i.e. the preservation of some parts of victors’ wartime atrocity propaganda singled out for history books) (Art. 19 & 21 of the IMT charter) amounts to proving anything in this world. So the ball is still in your hands, the accuser’s hands. As late as 1986, Superstar of Holocaustianity Serge Klarsfeld had to concede that there was no physical & documentary evidence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers because “nobody thought after the war that one day some people would deny their existence,” adding that “nobody undertook to gather physical evidence [of Nazi gas chambers]” (Tout simplement parce que personne ne pensait après la guerre qu’un jour on en viendrait à nier leur existence. Personne ne s’est préoccupé de rassembler des preuves matérielles.).

              Jeff wrote: “Rhetoric.”

              Large flight of ducks detected…

              Jeff wrote: “To be honest, I stopped paying attention.”

              I’ve noticed that it’s a problem you have very often. Every time your ass is fucked hard, your brain disconnects. Spent some time in jail, jeff?😉

              Comment by hermie — July 15, 2016 @ 6:44 pm

              • Jeff wrote: “Because deniers are offering an alternate history it is up to them to prove it. […] The deportations of the Jews is a historical fact, no one denies them. If they didn’t die, where did they go, what was their destination? ”

                “No, Jeff. The Holocaust conspiracy theory is an alternate theory.”

                Nope, sorry, load of crap.

                “Even yourself can’t swallow, I’m sure, the crap that a kangaroo court NOT “bound by technical rules of evidence” “taking judicial notice” of some victors’ “facts of common knowledge” (i.e. the preservation of some parts of victors’ wartime atrocity propaganda singled out for history books) (Art. 19 & 21 of the IMT charter) amounts to proving anything in this world.”

                There were other trials in other places, Hermie. Denier obsession with the IMT clouds this fact.
                Besides, the IMT is irrelevant now. We are simply looking at history.

                “So the ball is still in your hands, the accuser’s hands.”

                Oh, stop with the high handed horse shit. I’m not an “accuser.”

                “As late as 1986,”

                30 years ago? What, nothing more recent?

                “Superstar of Holocaustianity Serge Klarsfeld had to concede that there was no physical & documentary evidence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers because “nobody thought after the war that one day some people would deny their existence,” adding that “nobody undertook to gather physical evidence [of Nazi gas chambers]”

                Really? Pressac wrote a whole fucking book about the gas chambers, Van Pelt also wrote a legal brief and another fucking book about the gas chambers, Richard Green and Harry Maizal also wrote about them, the Poles tested the ruins (twice), the Poles ran forensic tests in 1945, the Poles investigated the sites of the Reinhard Camps and found ash and human remains, they found the same at Chelmno.
                I noticed you didn’t mention the shooting sites in Eastern Europe. The Poles, Soviets and the Balts found mass graves filled with victims. So, no evidence? Bullshit.
                Your turn, denier. Where’s your evidence?
                Don’t have any? Of course not. But I’m sure you’ll keep telling me you don’t have to provide it to hide the fact you don’t have any.

                Jeff wrote: “Rhetoric.”

                “Large flight of ducks detected…”

                No. Rhetoric. With a side of horse shit.

                Jeff wrote: “To be honest, I stopped paying attention.”

                “I’ve noticed that it’s a problem you have very often. Every time your ass is fucked hard, your brain disconnects. Spent some time in jail, jeff? ;-)”

                Actually I stopped paying attention because your mom and sister came over to make me the meat in a kosher sandwich.

                😜

                I stopped paying attention because I’ve seen it all before from you, Hermie. Plus it was between you and Click.

                And then your mom and sister came over.

                Comment by Jeff K. — July 15, 2016 @ 7:10 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “There were other trials in other places, Hermie. ”

                  Mock trials all based on testimonial ‘evidence.’ Oops. Back to the definition of cryptozoology, it seems.

                  Cryptozoology: a pseudoscience involving the search for creatures whose existence has not been proven due to lack of evidence. Cryptozoologists refer to the animals they study as cryptids. […] Cryptozoology is not a recognized branch of zoology nor a discipline of science. It is an example of pseudoscience because it relies heavily upon anecdotal evidence, stories, and alleged sightings. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoology)

                  Reminds you nothing?

                  Jeff wrote: “Oh, stop with the high handed horse shit. I’m not an “accuser.””

                  You accuse Hitler and his National Socialist regime of having deliberately put 5-6 million Jews to death during WW2, so you’re indeed an accuser, whether you like it or not, whether you accept it or not.

                  Jeff wrote: “30 years ago? What, nothing more recent?”

                  Are 44 years (1942-1986) of groundless testimony-based Holo-claims, of physical and documentary complete emptiness, and even of total lack of attempts to move Holocaustianity from testimonial pseudohistory to history, not enough for you???

                  Jeff wrote: “Really? Pressac wrote a whole fucking book about the gas chambers, Van Pelt also wrote a legal brief and another fucking book about the gas chambers, Richard Green and Harry Maizal also wrote about them”

                  So what? How many books written about various animal cryptids, ghosts apparitions, witchcraft, demonology, dragons, Marian apparitions, Jesus’ miracles, astrology, paranormal activities, demonic possessions, exorcisms, black magic, and similar BS? Isn’t a collection of laughable fairy tales called the Holy Bible the most printed sold and read book in this world? How many books of Harry Potter’s adventures sold throughout the world?

                  Jeff wrote: “the Poles tested the ruins (twice)”

                  The first time, confirming Leuchter’s findings; the second time, putting the most stable cyanide compounds aside for a study performed 5 decades after the alleged events.

                  Jeff wrote: “the Poles ran forensic tests in 1945, the Poles investigated the sites of the Reinhard Camps and found ash and human remains, they found the same at Chelmno.”

                  Communist pseudoscience and propaganda.

                  Jeff wrote: ” The Poles, Soviets and the Balts found mass graves filled with victims.”

                  Yes, they found some mass graves filled by the NKVD after the fall of the Soviet Union. Uncle Joe would have loved to pay Hitler back for the Katyn & Vinnitsa exposures and he surely tried very hard to do that, but he miserably failed in his task.

                  Jeff wrote: “So, no evidence? Bullshit.”

                  Thanks for this good summary of the pathetic exterminationist case and desperation. Very funny…

                  Jeff wrote: “Actually I stopped paying attention because your mom and sister came over to make me the meat in a kosher sandwich.”

                  So how do you know that Click kicked my ass in a debate you did not even read in its entirety? Have I missed a Hasbara debriefing or something?

                  Comment by hermie — July 16, 2016 @ 9:05 am

                • Jeff wrote: “There were other trials in other places, Hermie. ”

                  “Mock trials all based on testimonial ‘evidence.’ Oops. Back to the definition of cryptozoology, it seems.”

                  Oops, back to more bull💩. I’m deleting the definition from my comment.
                  Frankly, this is embarrassing, your inability to provide any sort of proof.

                  “Reminds you nothing?”

                  “Nothing” is what I’m seeing from you.

                  Jeff wrote: “Oh, stop with the high handed horse shit. I’m not an “accuser.””

                  “You accuse Hitler and his National Socialist regime of having deliberately put 5-6 million Jews to death during WW2, so you’re indeed an accuser, whether you like it or not, whether you accept it or not.”

                  No, what I’m saying is that until some denier actually provides proof history wins out, the truth wins out.

                  Jeff wrote: “30 years ago? What, nothing more recent?”

                  “Are 44 years (1942-1986) of groundless testimony-based Holo-claims, of physical and documentary complete emptiness, and even of total lack of attempts to move Holocaustianity from testimonial pseudohistory to history, not enough for you???”

                  Snore. The war ended 71 years ago. That’s plenty of time for deniers to prove their conspiraloon theories.
                  Documentary evidence exists that collaborates witness, perpatrator and victim testimony. It converges in a way denial can’t.

                  Jeff wrote: “Really? Pressac wrote a whole fucking book about the gas chambers, Van Pelt also wrote a legal brief and another fucking book about the gas chambers, Richard Green and Harry Maizal also wrote about them”

                  “So what? How many books written about various animal cryptids, ghosts apparitions, witchcraft, demonology, dragons, Marian apparitions, Jesus’ miracles, astrology, paranormal activities, demonic possessions, exorcisms, black magic, and similar BS? Isn’t a collection of laughable fairy tales called the Holy Bible the most printed sold and read book in this world? How many books of Harry Potter’s adventures sold throughout the world?”

                  Again, snore. While I find your drift into pointless babbling amusing you have not provided proof of where the Jews went if the Nazis did not murder them.

                  Jeff wrote: “the Poles tested the ruins (twice)”

                  “The first time, confirming Leuchter’s findings; the second time, putting the most stable cyanide compounds aside for a study performed 5 decades after the alleged events.”

                  That’s nice but you forget that Leuchter himself found cyanide in the ruins……from diluted samples improperly tested.

                  Jeff wrote: “the Poles ran forensic tests in 1945, the Poles investigated the sites of the Reinhard Camps and found ash and human remains, they found the same at Chelmno.”

                  “Communist pseudoscience and propaganda.”

                  Really? That the best you have?
                  I find it very convenient that anything that disproves denier BS you dismiss as forgeries, propoganda, pseudoscience.
                  Really, that’s pathetic.

                  Jeff wrote: ” The Poles, Soviets and the Balts found mass graves filled with victims.”

                  “Yes, they found some mass graves filled by the NKVD after the fall of the Soviet Union. Uncle Joe would have loved to pay Hitler back for the Katyn & Vinnitsa exposures and he surely tried very hard to do that, but he miserably failed in his task.”

                  Prove the victims that they found were murdered by the NKVD and not the Nazis.

                  Jeff wrote: “So, no evidence? Bullshit.”

                  “Thanks for this good summary of the pathetic exterminationist case and desperation. Very funny…”

                  No, that is my summary of denier arguments.

                  Jeff wrote: “Actually I stopped paying attention because your mom and sister came over to make me the meat in a kosher sandwich.”

                  “So how do you know that Click kicked my ass in a debate you did not even read in its entirety? Have I missed a Hasbara”

                  I was messing with you, I found your reaction amusing.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 16, 2016 @ 9:30 am

                • Oh, and Hermie?

                  Jeff wrote: “I’m just going to answer you here:”

                  Oh no! Wizard Kross Section’s usual smoke and mirrors again!! So scary…😉

                  Jeff wrote: “Such a simplistic view of how this information got out. The reality is that the British intercepted signals regarding the mass murders of Jews by the Einsatzgruppen as early as July 1941, the Polish underground received reports from the Jewish Bund and witnessed German operations personally in the Spring and Summer of 1942, with the Bund Report in May of 1942 actually detailing gas van operations at Chelmno along with other actions. The Bund Report specifically mentioned 700,000 Jewish dead. The BBC broadcast this information in May and June of 1942. The US newspapers reported this information but buried it and downplayed both numbers and details. Wise did make a broadcast regarding this but you are simply wrong in asserting that Wise “was the first guy to tell the world.” Shock, you being wrong. No, not really a shock.”

                  “The Bund report was more food for atrocity propaganda in Britain than the real beginning of the WW2 worldwide campaign of atrocity propaganda now called the Holocaust. That’s why the orthodox narrative of Rabbi Wise compelled to kee silent from August 1942 to November 1942, i.e. until Sumner Welles finally allowed him to spread the word, is still being told today. Would that make sense if the word was already out in June 1942 as implied by yourself?”

                  I’m not implying. This is fact. Based upon intercepts Churchill said this in August of 1941:

                  “this time it was not so easy. This time it was not all one way. The Russian Armies and all the peoples of the Russian Republic have rallied to the defence of their hearths and homes. For the first time Nazi blood has flowed in a fearful flood. Certainly a million and a half, perhaps two millions of Nazi cannon-fodder, have bitten the dust of the endless plains of Russia. The tremendous battle rages along nearly two thousand miles of front. The Russians fight with magnificent devotion. Not only that, our generals who have visited the Russian front line report with admiration the efficiency of their military organization and the excellence of their equipment. The aggressor is surprised, startled, staggered. For the first time in his experience mass murder has become unprofitable. He retaliates by the most frightful cruelties. As his armies advance, whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands, literally scores of thousands of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police troops upon the Russian patriots who defend their native soil. Since the Mongol invasions of Europe in the sixteenth century there has never been methodical, merciless butchery on such a scale or approaching such a scale. And this is but the beginning. Famine and pestilence have yet to follow in the bloody ruts of Hitler’s tanks.”

                  http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/410824a.html

                  He avoided mentioning Jews at this point.

                  He did specifically talk about Jews here:

                  “On Nov. 14, 1941, Churchill gave public recognition to the Jewish suffering in a message to The Jewish Chronicle, the leading Jewish newspaper of Britain. ”None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew,” Churchill wrote. Describing a burden that seemed beyond his endurance, the great Prime Minister, always a champion of the Jewish cause, said: ”Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew’s suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.”

                  http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/22/magazine/the-holocaust-was-no-secret.html?pagewanted=all

                  The New York Times published a report on March 1st, 1942 about the casualty rate of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto:

                  https://cdn1.nyt.com/images/blogs/learning/pdf/2013/extinctionfearedbyjewsinpolandLN.pdf

                  The BBC broadcast information about this in June, 1942. Sikorsky made public speeches about it:

                  https://books.google.com/books?id=zHDCCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA146&lpg=PA146&dq=bbc+700,000+Jews+killed+in+poland&source=bl&ots=fJOk4pbSXY&sig=6wgIgt3v_66WtM3P98Rq8dq16tU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK54_uxfjNAhXC6iYKHZbnCWo4ChDoAQgpMAY#v=onepage&q=bbc%20700%2C000%20Jews%20killed%20in%20poland&f=false

                  There is no “implying” anything.

                  Jeff wrote: “You know, I haven’t really addressed this. Let’s go to the tape:”

                  “Is that smoke that I can smell? Is that mirrors that I can see? ;-)”

                  Nope, what you see is I actually have proof and you don’t.

                  Jeff wrote: “The above seems incomplete. Let’s give ol’ Frank the credit he is due:”

                  Good idea…

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: …One way or another – I will tell you that, quite openly – we must finish off the Jews.The Fuhrer put it into words once: “should united Jewry again succeed in setting off a world war: then the blood sacrifice shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the Jew of Europe will have met his end”.”

                  “Frank was referring to Hitler’s well-known annihilation prophecy of January 30, 1939. We’ve already talked about that previously. On that day, Hitler didn’t talk about a mass murder of Europe’s Jewry in the event of another world war. ”

                  “But then the Jew of Europe will have met his end”

                  What was Hitler talking about, if not extermination?

                  “That Frank or anybody else believed in a coming ‘blood sacrifice’ doesn’t matter. All that matters is what Hitler actually said on that day and what he really meant.”

                  So, you have insight? What did Hitler mean?

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: I know that there is criticism of many of the measures now applied to the Jews in the Reich. There are always deliberate attempts to speak again and again of cruelty, harshness, etc.: this emerges from the reports on the popular mood.”

                  “A number of German civilians didn’t like the unceremonious uprooting and ejection of their Jewish neighbors, ‘reports on the popular mood’ said. So what?”

                  The Nazi Government did have concerns about what the Germans thought. If they didn’t care why did Hitler end the Euthanasia Program?
                  Hitler, Goebbels and Goering did have concerns, they didn’t want civilian morale to fall like it did during WW I.

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: I will therefore, on principle, approach Jewish affairs in the expectation that the Jews will dissappear. They must go. I have started negotiations for the purpose of having them pushed off to the East. In January there will be a major conference on this question in Berlin (Wannsee – Jan. 42) to which I shall send State Secretary Dr. Buhler. The conference is to be held in the office of SS Obergruppenfuhrer Heydrich at the Reich Security Main Office. A major Jewish migration will certainly begin.”

                  “Holocaust denier Bühler was at that conference (the Wannsee Conference) and didn’t confirm the Holohoaxsters’ crazy conspiracy theory.”

                  Because the Wannsee minutes were not recovered until 1947 so Buhler could say anything he wanted.

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told: why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either – not in Ostland or in the Reichskommisariat; liquidate them yourselves! ”

                  “The man of the street in Berlin, the ‘popular mood’ mentioned by Frank earlier, wondered why all the trouble with those compulsory deportations of Jews and thought that it would be easier to just liquidate those Jews in Poland. So what? The Third Reich’s anti-Jewish policies were not designed and ordered by the man of the street in Berlin, nor by Hans Frank, but by Nazi leaders such as Hitler, Himmler, Goering and Heydrich.”

                  Who do you think told Frank to “liquidate them yourselves!”

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we find them and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain the whole structure of the Reich…the views that were acceptable up to now cannot be applied to such gigantic, unique events. In any case, we must find a way that will lead us to our goal and I have my own ideas on this.”

                  “What was the German word for ‘destroy’ in this instance? Ausrotten? Not as simple as exterminationist simpletons want to depict it…”

                  Yes, deniers do like to stretch the meanings of words to the ridiculous point!!!!!!! But, what else do you expect from people that can’t prove their conspiraloon theories.

                  Jeff wrote: “Frank: The Jews are exceptionally harmful feeders for us. In the Government-General (Poland & surrounding occupied areas), we have approximately 2.5 million, and now perhaps 3.5 million together with persons who have Jewish kin and so on.”

                  “Good for Europe’s Jews that Frank was not the guy choosing and ordering what should be done with those ‘harmful feeders.’”

                  What part of Hitler left this to Himmler and Heydrich do you not understand? Hitler was busy losing the war.

                  Jeff wrote: ” Frank: We cannot shoot these 3.5 million Jews, we cannot poison them, but we will take measures that will somehow lead to successful destruction; and this in connection with large-scale procedures which are to be discussed in the Reich, the Government-General must become as free of Jews as the Reich. Where and how this is to be done is the affair of bodies which we will have to appoint and create, and on whose work I will report to you when the time comes…. .”

                  “What part of ‘we cannot shoot or poison those Jews’ do you fail to understand?”

                  Well, they didn’t. They gassed them. They did shoot a lot of them.

                  “And why are you allowed to use words told before the Wannsee Conference and the liquidation of the ghettos in the General Governorate to prove that ‘Final Solution = Mass murder’ when I’m not allowed to do that to prove that ‘Final Solution =/= Mass murder’?”

                  Well:
                  1) You don’t have any proof of your goofy theories
                  2) Extermination fits the historical facts

                  Jeff wrote: “There, that’s better. Funny, ol’ Frank seems to say there WON’T be settlements in the Ostland for them. Also, there’s a lot about “liquidate them yourselves.””

                  “Indeed better. Frank didn’t say that there won’t be Jewish settlements there. Frank said that a number of German civilians found that the establisment of such settlements was useless and that the Nazi authorities shouldn’t waste time and resources for that.”

                  What? Do you have trouble understanding “liquidate them yourselves!”

                  Jeff wrote: “Now, Buehler himself wasn’t on trial, he testified on Frank’s behalf, but he was extradited to Poland to face trial. You really are childishly simple. We’ve been over this before, why would you expect someone TESTIFYING on Frank’s behalf to admit to atrocities? Why would he admit that WHEN HE IS FACING HIS OWN TRIAL?”

                  “Why would a man ‘admit’ crimes when facing his own trial but not when testifying on somebody else’s behalf?”

                  You are confused. Buehler never admitted anythin.

                  “Perhaps because it’s easier to tell the truth when your balls are not kicked by some gaolers than it is when they are. Who’s childishly simple and naive on this one?”

                  Prove that Buehler was tortured. Prove that Frank was tortured. Not innuendos, factual proof that Buehler and Frank were tortured.

                  Jeff wrote: “How sweet, Hitler reassured Seyss-Inquart!!!! I wonder if Hitler gave him a stuffed bunny and a box of chocolates at the same time?????”

                  “You’re entitled to your opinion that Hitler lied to Seyss-Inquart about that. In any event, the fact that Hitler was reportedly a Holocaust denier remains…”

                  We only have Seyss-Inquart’s word, a man on trial for his life, about what Hitler told him.
                  Prove that this meeting took place. Prove that Hitler told him this.

                  Jeff wrote: “What else does Seyss-Inquart say about Jews? According to Seyss-Inquart: “The Jews, for us, are not Dutch. They are those enemies with whom we can come to neither an armistice nor to peace. This applies here, if you wish, for the duration of the occupation. Do not expect an order from me which stipulates this, except regulations concerning police matters. We will beat the Jews wherever we meet them, and those who join them must bear the consequences. The Führer declared that the Jews have played their final act in Europe, and therefore they have played their final act.””

                  “Yes, Jewish parasitism was to end in Europe. ”

                  Well, their lives, at any rate.

                  Jeff wrote: “What was Hitler saying in 1943 about the Jews? “The meeting between Hitler and Horthy on 16 and 17 April 1943 has generally been regarded by historians as one of the few occasions on which Hitler openly admitted the extermination of the Jews in Poland. The minutes of the meeting were taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt, who confirmed them and added his own recollections at the Nuremberg trials. There is no doubt about their authenticity.”

                  “No doubt about their authenticity? Yes, just as there was no doubt about Geocentrism when Galileo Galilei was in jail… ;-)”

                  Prove they were forgeries.

                  “Arthur Butz:”

                  Oh, look. An actual dinosaur.

                  “The evidence that Hitler said this is the alleged minutes of the meeting and the supporting IMT testimony of Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt, Hitler’s interpreter, who normally sat in on such conferences and prepared the minutes. Schmidt testified that he was present at the meeting and that the minutes were genuine and prepared by him. However, in his later book, he wrote that he was not present, because Horthy had insisted on his leaving the room!”

                  And if these minutes are to be trusted, why do Holohoaxsters always ‘omit’ to mention what Hitler reportedly said on the previous day (i.e. on April 16)?

                  April 16: “But they can hardly be murdered or otherwise eliminated”, [Horthy] protested. Hitler reassured him: “There is no need for that”.

                  Please provide me the full text of the meetings on April 16th and 17th.

                  Jeff wrote: “Also, I’ll repeat this again: Seyss-Inquart was on trial for his life. He is not required to tell the truth. He’s not going to admit culpability in mass murder. Also, when did this alleged meeting take place? ”

                  “No, you don’t repeat this again. In fact, you say the exact opposite of what you usually say. You always claim that Nazis on trial for their life wouldn’t have lied and that their court ‘confessions’ are probative. That’s what you said about Buehler, i.e. that he lied when testifying on Frank’s behalf but told the truth when on trial for his life.”And now you claim that Seyss-Inquart lied because he was on trial for life. Utter hypocrisy! You have only decided arbitrarily that the court testimonies confirming the ‘Holocaust’ are the truth and that the court testimonies denying it are just a pack of lies.”

                  What I am saying is that there is no reason to believe someone on trial for their life. However, when confessions = fact that is when it is believable. BTW, I never said Buhler told the truth in Poland.
                  But, as I keep saying, if you provide me proof of “resettlement” I will listen.
                  But you never do.

                  Jeff wrote: “Borman was dead by the time of the IMT.”

                  “So all the Nazi wartime documents must be dismissed if their authors were dead when WW2 ended. Is this what you’re saying?”

                  Nope, but he was never questioned after the war so I don’t have context.

                  Jeff wrote: “Oh, yes, the British, French, Soviets and the US all had reasons to trust that peace loving hippy, Hitler.
                  So, tell me, why didn’t the hippy dippy flower child withdraw from Poland? After all, wouldn’t the peace and love Hitler do that for the sake of avoiding war? After all, that was the condition that the British and French set for avoiding war. Why couldn’t the owl kissing, tree hugging, peace loving pacifist call a cease fire with the Poles? Set up conditions for a withdrawal and a resumption of negotiations? Why?”

                  “Hitler did accept the armistice (cease fire) and peace conference offered by Mussolini in early September 1939. But Britain immediately torpedoed Mussolini’s offer and formulated a requirement that she knew unacceptable, i.e. the withdrawal of all the German troops from Polish territory, together with her well-known bellicose ultimatum.”

                  But, if Hitler wanted peace, surely he would have withdrawn his troops. Why is this unacceptable?

                  “Just after the defeat of Poland, Hitler once again appealed to France and Britain for a peace conference about the future of Poland, and his appeal was met with the same deafening silence as his other previous and future peace offers. Perfidious Albion’s alleged desire for peace is one the most laughable fairy tales ever made up…”

                  Oh yes, the British and French had every reason to trust Hitler.
                  Sure.
                  So, let’s see. Hitler violates the Munich Agreement, including the stipulation that Germany would respect the Czechoslovakian border. He concludes a secret treaty with the USSR to split Poland in half. He then invades Poland in spite of being told this would result in war. He then refuses to withdraw his troops.
                  Why, exactly, should the British and French trust him.

                  Jeff wrote: “That’s getting old. That’s just the old Hermie canard of avoiding admitting he doesn’t have anything.”

                  “As old as justice itself. You’re entitled to remain on the side of injustice and upside down burden of proof, but you could at least admit it frankly.”

                  No, but I will repeat that you talk real big for someone who doesn’t have any proof.

                  Jeff wrote: “Really? I’ve provided proof of gas vans, gas chambers, Soviet and Polish reports, posted pictures, transport schedules, telegrams, reports, so on and so forth. Click did the same.”

                  “Your ‘proof,’ as well as Click’s ones, are a joke. Debunked as easily as your sister gets laid.”

                  Not as easy as your mom. And your sister.
                  You still have no evidence to the contrary.

                  Jeff wrote: “What have you provided?”

                  “Full light on Holohoaxsters’ conjuring trick… ;-)”

                  Really? I just see a lot of denier horse shit.

                  Jeff wrote: ” Though, I don’t really understand why. You’re Belgian, not German. The Germans invaded your country twice the previous century and it wasn’t a party either time.”

                  “Very telling!! What is this? The first line of the perfect biased twHistorian’s guidebook?

                  Due to its location, Belgium was of course in the way every time there was a war between French and Germans. Should I also hate the French people because Napoleon and numerous French Kings rolled over Belgium on several occasions?”

                  The Germans invaded your country, twice, when it was neutral. The Germans didn’t even offer the courtesy of a declaration of war.

                  Jeff wrote: “No Holocaust historian would ever caption a picture “inmate of Auschwitz 1938-1945.” Seriously, that’s still funny.”

                  “No revisionist Holocaust historian would ever do that neither. An anonymous guy once captioned a pic erroneously. What a big deal!”

                  And hysterical. Can’t forget hysterical.

                  “On the other hand, exterminationist Holocaust historians often let mainstream media use various pics of typhus epidemics in some Western camps, without contradicting them, in order to ‘prove’ the use of homicidal gas chambers in some Eastern camps. Deliberate deception. Something much more serious than the little mistake making you laugh so much…”

                  Feel free to provide proof that these pictures were used to prove GAS CHAMBERS. These pictures are erroneously used to prove the Holocaust.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 16, 2016 @ 3:36 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “Oops, back to more bull💩. I’m deleting the definition from my comment. Frankly, this is embarrassing, your inability to provide any sort of proof.”

                  Fortunately the burden of proof is on you, Prosecutor Holo-BS.😉

                  Jeff wrote: ““Nothing” is what I’m seeing from you.”

                  Pretty dance, Jeff. The paralllel between pseudoscience cryptozoology and pseudohistory Holo-historiography is invisible now.

                  Jeff wrote: “No, what I’m saying is that until some denier actually provides proof history wins out, the truth wins out.”

                  Until believers actually provide non-laughable proof, injustice wins out and Holo-historiography remains pseudohistory.

                  Jeff wrote: “Snore. The war ended 71 years ago. That’s plenty of time for deniers to prove their conspiraloon theories.”

                  The inability of Holohoaxsters to prove their conspiracy theory is a proof in itself.

                  Jeff wrote: “Documentary evidence exists that collaborates witness, perpatrator and victim testimony. It converges in a way denial can’t.”

                  Documentary evidence full of imaginary genocidal code words and euphemisms only proves that Judeo-Allied Chutzpah & deceptions know no limit.

                  Jeff wrote: “Again, snore. While I find your drift into pointless babbling amusing you have not provided proof of where the Jews went if the Nazis did not murder them.”

                  Feel free to provide non-ridiculous proof that those Jews were murdered at alleged death camps and other places, Mr. Prosecutor. Until that time, the ‘Holocaust’ remains within the research field of mythology and folkloristics.

                  Jeff wrote: “That’s nice but you forget that Leuchter himself found cyanide in the ruins……from diluted samples improperly tested.”

                  Cyanide can move through walls but can be found only on the surface of walls, another exterminationist nonsense.

                  Jeff wrote: “Really? That the best you have? I find it very convenient that anything that disproves denier BS you dismiss as forgeries, propoganda, pseudoscience. Really, that’s pathetic.”

                  Everybody laugh at Communist ‘studies.’ Only Holocaustianity still uses that ridiculous material.

                  Jeff wrote: ”Prove the victims that they found were murdered by the NKVD and not the Nazis.”

                  Name a specific grave…

                  Jeff wrote: “I was messing with you, I found your reaction amusing.”

                  What reaction? The observation that Click is patently as dumb as a bag of hammers?

                  Comment by hermie — July 17, 2016 @ 8:30 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Oops, back to more bull💩. I’m deleting the definition from my comment. Frankly, this is embarrassing, your inability to provide any sort of proof.”

                  “Fortunately the burden of proof is on you, Prosecutor Holo-BS. ;-)”

                  Are you still going with deniers as defense attorneys?

                  God, that’s funny and stupid at the same time.

                  I repeat, Hermie. You have nothing.

                  Jeff wrote: ““Nothing” is what I’m seeing from you.”

                  “Pretty dance, Jeff. The paralllel between pseudoscience cryptozoology and pseudohistory Holo-historiography is invisible now.”

                  You know, it LOOKS like you are saying something. The reality is your comments are as empty as denier theories on Jews sent to camps in the USSR.

                  Jeff wrote: “No, what I’m saying is that until some denier actually provides proof history wins out, the truth wins out.”

                  “Until believers actually provide non-laughable proof, injustice wins out and Holo-historiography remains pseudo-history.”

                  Again, it LOOKS like you are saying something……but I don’t really see any substance. Just more large words used in a desperate attempt to shield the fact you have nothing.

                  Jeff wrote: “Snore. The war ended 71 years ago. That’s plenty of time for deniers to prove their conspiraloon theories.”

                  “The inability of Holohoaxsters to prove their conspiracy theory is a proof in itself.”

                  Again, nothing. No proof, no substance. Just more empty words.
                  That’s sad.

                  Jeff wrote: “Documentary evidence exists that collaborates witness, perpatrator and victim testimony. It converges in a way denial can’t.”

                  “Documentary evidence full of imaginary genocidal code words and euphemisms only proves that Judeo-Allied Chutzpah & deceptions know no limit.”

                  See above…..more empty words.

                  Jeff wrote: “Again, snore. While I find your drift into pointless babbling amusing you have not provided proof of where the Jews went if the Nazis did not murder them.”

                  “Feel free to provide non-ridiculous proof that those Jews were murdered at alleged death camps and other places, Mr. Prosecutor.”

                  Oh, another reference to deniers as defense attorneys.
                  Again, funny and sad at the same time.

                  “Until that time, Holocaust denial remains within the research field of mythology and folkloristics.”

                  First, you do get some kudos on the “folkloristics.” My spell check freaked over it.
                  I’m going to make a change to your comment….
                  There, that’s better.

                  Jeff wrote: “That’s nice but you forget that Leuchter himself found cyanide in the ruins……from diluted samples improperly tested.”

                  “Cyanide can move through walls but can be found only on the surface of walls, another exterminationist nonsense.”

                  Do you deny that Leuchter found cyanide?

                  Jeff wrote: “Really? That the best you have? I find it very convenient that anything that disproves denier BS you dismiss as forgeries, propoganda, pseudoscience. Really, that’s pathetic.”

                  “Everybody laugh at Communist ‘studies.’ Only Holocaustianity still uses that ridiculous material.”

                  No one has a problem with what the Poles and Soviets found after the war because it lines up with documented fact. Only deniers run screaming because it disproves their silly bullshit.

                  Jeff wrote: ”Prove the victims that they found were murdered by the NKVD and not the Nazis.”

                  Name a specific grave…

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponary_massacre

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 17, 2016 @ 12:02 pm

                • You wrote: “Only deniers run screaming because it disproves their silly bullshit.”

                  I am a denier, but I don’t run screaming, from anything. I wrote about the Lithuanian Jews on these blog posts at

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/lithuanian-jews/

                  Comment by furtherglory — July 17, 2016 @ 12:21 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “I’m not implying. This is fact. Based upon intercepts Churchill said this in August of 1941: “this time it was not so easy. This time it was not all one way. The Russian Armies and all the peoples of the Russian Republic have rallied to the defence of their hearths and homes. For the first time Nazi blood has flowed in a fearful flood. Certainly a million and a half, perhaps two millions of Nazi cannon-fodder, have bitten the dust of the endless plains of Russia. The tremendous battle rages along nearly two thousand miles of front. The Russians fight with magnificent devotion. Not only that, our generals who have visited the Russian front line report with admiration the efficiency of their military organization and the excellence of their equipment. The aggressor is surprised, startled, staggered. For the first time in his experience mass murder has become unprofitable. He retaliates by the most frightful cruelties. As his armies advance, whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands, literally scores of thousands of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police troops upon the Russian patriots who defend their native soil. Since the Mongol invasions of Europe in the sixteenth century there has never been methodical, merciless butchery on such a scale or approaching such a scale. And this is but the beginning. Famine and pestilence have yet to follow in the bloody ruts of Hitler’s tanks.” He avoided mentioning Jews at this point. He did specifically talk about Jews here: “On Nov. 14, 1941, Churchill gave public recognition to the Jewish suffering in a message to The Jewish Chronicle, the leading Jewish newspaper of Britain. ”None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew,” ”

                  Too bad Churchill also justified such actions. Sure Uncle Sam and Perfidious Albion never waited that 2 millions of their men had bitten the dust in a war before ordering and implementing the most radical methods of warfare. The mere prospect of one million US soldiers dying to capture Japan was enough to sign the death warrant of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians in 2 nuclear holocausts. And nobody doesn’t know that the British and the Americans wiped out entire non-white indigenous communities for much less than that throughout their history.

                  Not to mention that Churchill was admittedly a Zionist stooge never missing an opportunity to support and spread Zionist propaganda.

                  Jeff wrote: “Churchill wrote. Describing a burden that seemed beyond his endurance, the great Prime Minister, always a champion of the Jewish cause, said: ”Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew’s suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.” ”

                  He was certainly right about that.

                  Jeff wrote: “The New York Times published a report on March 1st, 1942 about the casualty rate of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto: https://cdn1.nyt.com/images/blogs/learning/pdf/2013/extinctionfearedbyjewsinpolandLN.pdf

                  Nobody ever denied that there was a quite high casualty rate in the ghettos during WW2. And the food situation was precarious in Poland in general.

                  Buehler: “The decisive reason, the real cause, why the population in the Government General could not be supplied as efficiently and as satisfactorily as in Germany was the lack of co-operation on the part of the Polish population in the measures taken by the Germans to bring about a Just and equal distribution of food quotas. […] I do not believe that there was a single country in Europe where so much was pillaged, stolen, and diverted to the black market. where so much was destroyed and so much damage was done in order to sabotage the food program, as in the Government General. To give one example: All the dairy machinery, which had been provided with great pains, and the chain of dairies, which had been organized with difficulty, were destroyed again and again so that a snore or less comprehensive control of mill: and fat supplies could not be carried out. I estimate that the fat sold on the free market and the black market in the Government General was several times the quantity of that controlled and distributed officially. […] I always saw to it that the directives issued for combating the black market allowed margins for the acquisition of foodstuffs and that the inhabitants of the cities were given the opportunity of contacting the producers. […] To sum up I should like to say that it was not easy for the population of the Government General to get its daily food requirements. On the other hand there were no famines and no hunger epidemics in the Government General. A Polish and Ukrainian auxiliary committee, which had delegations in all districts of the Government General, saw to the supply of foodstuffs for those parts of the population which revere in greatest need.”

                  Jeff wrote: The BBC broadcast information about this in June, 1942. Sikorsky made public speeches about it:”

                  Thanks for proving my point that the Bund report was food for atrocity propaganda in Britain and that the world campaign of Holohoax atrocity propaganda was started by US Zionists in late 1942.

                  Jeff wrote: “What was Hitler talking about, if not extermination?”

                  He was talking about the crushing of Jewish power everywhere in Europe through anti-Semitic propaganda and laws, a crushing similar to the one that had taken place in Germany from 1933 to 1938.

                  Jeff wrote: “So, you have insight? What did Hitler mean?”

                  No insight needed. The words told by Hitler on that day were clear enough. The words following the oft-quoted “annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe” were:

                  “Thus, the days of propagandist impotence of the non-Jewish peoples are over. National Socialist Germany and Fascist Italy possess institutions which, if necessary, permit opening the eyes of the world to the true nature of this problem. Many a people is instinctively aware of this, albeit not scientifically versed in it. At this moment, the Jews are still propagating their campaign of hatred in certain states under the cover of press, film, radio, theater, and literature, which are all in their hands. Should indeed this one Volk attain its goal of prodding masses of millions from other peoples to enter into a war devoid of all sense for them, and serving the interests of the Jews exclusively, then the effectiveness of an enlightenment will once more display its might. Within Germany, this enlightenment conquered Jewry utterly in the span of a few years.”

                  Propagandist impotence, opening the eyes of the world, enlightenment… “The annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe” was clearly a job for Goebbels’ Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda and similar ministries throughout Europe.

                  Jeff wrote: “The Nazi Government did have concerns about what the Germans thought. If they didn’t care why did Hitler end the Euthanasia Program? Hitler, Goebbels and Goering did have concerns, they didn’t want civilian morale to fall like it did during WW I.”

                  Visibly not enough concerns to leave the Jews where they were despite negative reports on ‘public mood.’

                  Jeff wrote: “Because the Wannsee minutes were not recovered until 1947 so Buhler could say anything he wanted.”

                  What would the silly story that the extermination of the Jews was designed at Wannsee (in Israeli Historian Yehuda Bauer’s words) have changed?

                  Jeff wrote: “Who do you think told Frank to “liquidate them yourselves!”

                  The man & woman on the street in Berlin.

                  Jeff wrote: “What part of Hitler left this to Himmler and Heydrich do you not understand?”

                  And you, what part of Hans Frank was not the designer of the Nazi anti-Jewish policies in Poland do you fail to understand?

                  Jeff wrote: ” Well: 1) You don’t have any proof of your goofy theories”

                  Proof of yours, Prosecutor Holo-BS??

                  Jeff wrote: “2) Extermination fits the historical facts”

                  And who writes history books? Who says what is a historical fact and what is not? The victors, of course. What?! The victors of 1945 put their own wartime Holohoax atrocity propaganda in history books? Incredible!! Big surprise…

                  Jeff wrote: “You are confused. Buehler never admitted anythin.”

                  Didn’t you claim he did in your previous comment?

                  Jeff wrote: “We only have Seyss-Inquart’s word, a man on trial for his life, about what Hitler told him. Prove that this meeting took place. Prove that Hitler told him this.”

                  Prove that Himmler told Hoess to mass murder a large number of Jews at Auschwitz, Mr. Prosecutor.

                  Oops. Another gap in your funny 2-speed evidential standards detected…

                  Jeff wrote: “What else does Seyss-Inquart say about Jews? According to Seyss-Inquart: “The Jews, for us, are not Dutch. They are those enemies with whom we can come to neither an armistice nor to peace. This applies here, if you wish, for the duration of the occupation. Do not expect an order from me which stipulates this, except regulations concerning police matters. We will beat the Jews wherever we meet them, and those who join them must bear the consequences. The Führer declared that the Jews have played their final act in Europe, and therefore they have played their final act.””

                  Back to Hitler’s 1939 warning about the crushing of Jewish power in Europe through propaganda and laws. So what?

                  Jeff wrote: “Please provide me the full text of the meetings on April 16th and 17th.”

                  Would be a waste of time. Perhaps Google or an exterminationist friend of yours can help.

                  Jeff wrote: “What I am saying is that there is no reason to believe someone on trial for their life.”

                  Including Hoess?

                  Jeff wrote: “However, when confessions = fact that is when it is believable. BTW, I never said Buhler told the truth in Poland.”

                  Believable = true? Wow! Weird evidential standard…

                  Jeff wrote: “Nope, but he was never questioned after the war so I don’t have context.”

                  Giant duck detected…

                  The title of Bormann’s memo was “Preparatory Measures for the Solution of the Jewish Problem in Europe – Rumors About the Position of the Jews in the East.” What else do you need to know about the context of that memo???

                  Jeff wrote: “But, if Hitler wanted peace, surely he would have withdrawn his troops. Why is this unacceptable?”

                  This was unacceptable because it amounted to spitting on the grave of the German soldiers who had already fallen. If memory serves me right, Ciano didn’t even dare to pass that British shameful fake ‘offer’ to Hitler. Too patently a means to torpedo peace.

                  Jeff wrote: “Oh yes, the British and French had every reason to trust Hitler. Sure. So, let’s see. Hitler violates the Munich Agreement, including the stipulation that Germany would respect the Czechoslovakian border.”

                  Hitler didn’t violate that stipulation since the state of Czechoslovakia ceased to exist when Slovakia proclaimed its independence. One cannot violate the borders of a state out of existence.

                  Jeff wrote: “He concludes a secret treaty with the USSR to split Poland in half.”

                  He concluded a treaty with the USSR to avoid war with the Soviet juggernaut. In late August 1939, when peace with Poland was patently no longer possible.

                  Jeff wrote: “He then invades Poland in spite of being told this would result in war.”

                  Anglo-French bluff. Neither England nor France lifted a finger to defend Poland. And why was the Soviet invasion of Poland no problem for England and France? The words you’re looking for are ‘hypocrisy’ and ‘pretext for war.’

                  Jeff wrote: “He then refuses to withdraw his troops.”

                  He didn’t refuse that. Ciano didn’t tell him about the British patent sabotage of any peaceful way out. And Hitler agreed on an armistice, obviously the attitude of a leader who doesn’t want war if it can be avoided or stopped.

                  Jeff wrote: “Why, exactly, should the British and French trust him.”

                  Since when did England and France, 2 states with a long history of countless treacheries, need trust to make peace? Hilarious narrative. Really.

                  Jeff wrote: “The Germans invaded your country, twice, when it was neutral. The Germans didn’t even offer the courtesy of a declaration of war.”

                  Unlike Switzerland, Belgium’s neutrality didn’t involve the inviolability of Belgian territory. Moving troops through Belgium was no violation of Belgium’s neutrality (except for France since Belgium was founded on the ashes of Napoleon’s Europe). During WW1, Belgium violated its own neutrality when its leaders ordered the Belgian army to shoot the German troops crossing Belgium. During WW2, the German authorities resquested over 120 times (!!) that Belgium stops letting British planes fly over Belgian territory to bomb German cities. The Belgian authorities didn’t do that and so violated their own country’s neutrality once again.

                  Jeff wrote: “Feel free to provide proof that these pictures were used to prove GAS CHAMBERS. These pictures are erroneously used to prove the Holocaust.”

                  Is this a joke? Hard to find any documentary NOT using such pics to ‘prove’ the ‘Holocaust’ and its alleged gas chambers. And academic historians never denounce that. Guilty silence…

                  Comment by hermie — July 17, 2016 @ 11:54 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Are you still going with deniers as defense attorneys? God, that’s funny and stupid at the same time.”

                  Too bad you’re yourself too stupid to explain why that’s stupid…

                  Patent escape intended to avoid a normal burden of proof. Pathetic.

                  Jeff wrote: “I repeat, Hermie. You have nothing.”

                  Keep repeating that. It will maybe become true some day. Who knows?😉

                  Jeff wrote: “You know, it LOOKS like you are saying something. The reality is your comments are as empty as denier theories on Jews sent to camps in the USSR.”

                  Fortunately you’re here to decode and explain it’s looks like I’m saying things but I’m not. You don’t even try to look like you’re saying something. Your comment looks and is empty.

                  Jeff wrote: “Again, it LOOKS like you are saying something……but I don’t really see any substance. Just more large words used in a desperate attempt to shield the fact you have nothing.”

                  It looks like you’re short on arguments and inspiration.

                  Jeff wrote: “Again, nothing. No proof, no substance. Just more empty words. That’s sad.”

                  That’s sad you’ve used so many words for a comment that could have been as short as a single line.

                  Jeff wrote: “See above…..more empty words.”

                  A 1st-class debater for sure…😉

                  Jeff wrote: “Oh, another reference to deniers as defense attorneys. Again, funny and sad at the same time.”

                  You’re right. That’s funny. Defense attorneys are allowed to speak publicly.

                  Jeff wrote: “Do you deny that Leuchter found cyanide?”

                  I don’t.

                  Jeff wrote: “No one has a problem with what the Poles and Soviets found after the war because it lines up with documented fact. Only deniers run screaming because it disproves their silly bullshit.”

                  It seems you didn’t understand what I meant. I said that no researcher today regards Soviet & Communist stuff as reliable material except when it deals with the ‘Holocaust.’ Funny academic politically-biased schizophrenic standards.

                  Jeff wrote: ”https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponary_massacre”

                  “According to post-war exhumation by the forces of Soviet 2nd Belorussian Front…”

                  Comment by hermie — July 18, 2016 @ 2:02 am

                • Jeff wrote: “Are you still going with deniers as defense attorneys? God, that’s funny and stupid at the same time.”

                  “Too bad you’re yourself too stupid to explain why that’s stupid…”

                  It’s funny because the idea that deniers think of themselves as defense attorneys is both pretentious and self-righteous. That’s why it’s both funny and stupid at the same time.

                  “Patent escape intended to avoid a normal burden of proof. Pathetic.”

                  What’s pathetic is you keep bringing up the “normal burden of proof.” Again, just a shield to prevent you from admitting you have nothing of substance to provide.

                  Jeff wrote: “I repeat, Hermie. You have nothing.”

                  “Keep repeating that. It will maybe become true some day. Who knows? ;-)”

                  Prove me wrong. Show me your evidence.

                  Jeff wrote: “You know, it LOOKS like you are saying something. The reality is your comments are as empty as denier theories on Jews sent to camps in the USSR.”

                  “Fortunately you’re here to decode and explain it’s looks like I’m saying things but I’m not.”

                  You are right…..you are not saying anything. You simply continue to self-righteously proclaim to the world you don’t have to provide anything. The reality is this just a sad attempt to disguise the fact you have nothing to give.

                  “You don’t even try to look like you’re saying something. Your comment looks and is empty.”

                  Hermie, I’ve said a great deal. It’s you that ducks.

                  Jeff wrote: “Again, it LOOKS like you are saying something……but I don’t really see any substance. Just more large words used in a desperate attempt to shield the fact you have nothing.”

                  “It looks like you’re short on arguments and inspiration.”

                  No, I’m just waiting for you to give some type of evidence.

                  Jeff wrote: “See above…..more empty words.”

                  “A 1st-class debater for sure… ;-)”

                  What’s there to debate? You don’t have anything to debate.

                  Jeff wrote: “Do you deny that Leuchter found cyanide?”

                  “I don’t.”

                  Good, that’s settled.

                  Jeff wrote: “No one has a problem with what the Poles and Soviets found after the war because it lines up with documented fact. Only deniers run screaming because it disproves their silly bullshit.”

                  “It seems you didn’t understand what I meant. I said that no researcher today regards Soviet & Communist stuff as reliable material except when it deals with the ‘Holocaust.’ Funny academic politically-biased schizophrenic standards.”

                  Uh, no.
                  We use Soviet source material for the Gulags, Soviet economic production, political and foreign sources and so on. “Soviet” does not necessarily mean “lies.”

                  Jeff wrote: ”https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponary_massacre”

                  “According to post-war exhumation by the forces of Soviet 2nd Belorussian Front…”

                  Your challenge was to prove that the victims were Soviet and not German. You failed. This is not a surprise.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 21, 2016 @ 8:37 pm

  2. @ Hermie:
    Jeff wrote: “Except that this picture shows Elie Wiesel with a tattoo.”

    “You or others still have to prove conclusively that the pic actually shows Elie Wiesel and a tattoo. But we both know that neither yourself nor any other Holohoaxster will even try to do that. As usually, Holohoaxsters will just repeat on and on that it’s a pic of Elie Wiesel with a tattoo until almost everybody believes them.”

    I’ll tell you what:
    You bring me some actual proof of the settlement of the Jews in the USSR or “Rudenko’s Camps” were filled with foreign Jews and I’ll see what I can about the picture.

    Jeff wrote: “What?!?!?!?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 WTF are you talking about??????????
    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 OMG that’s funny. THANK YOU. 😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😅😅😂😂😂😅😅😅😂”

    “In what world do 60 smilies amount to a real response?”

    When you describe deniers as “defense attorneys.”

    Holy crap that’s still funny.

    Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 7:24 am

  3. I’d never heard of Tadeusz Borowski.

    Comment by Jett Rucker — July 13, 2016 @ 12:28 pm

    • You wrote: “I’d never heard of Tadeusz Borowski.”

      You are revealing your age. His writing is taught in college now.

      Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 2:16 pm

  4. Now doesn’t that speak volumes! – that in the country where all this “holocaust” nonsense is supposed to have happened, the youngsters are not required to read “Night” by Elie Weisel; and yet thousands of miles away – on a different continent – it is mandatory for students to read and study his work….. Hmm!

    Comment by Talbot — July 13, 2016 @ 10:41 am

    • “Now doesn’t that speak volumes! – that in the country where all this “holocaust” nonsense is supposed to have happened,”

      I think the Poles are in a much better position than you to determine the truth of the Holocaust, Talbot. After all, 3 million of their Jews perished. They are also in a better position than you to know what the Germans did or did not do in their country.

      “the youngsters are not required to read “Night” by Elie Wiesel and yet thousands of miles away – on a different continent – it is mandatory for students to read and study his work….. Hmm!”

      It wasn’t for me. I’ve never read anything by Elie Wiesel.
      Also, I’ve never found any indication that Elie ever denied having a tattoo. That’s just Carolyn Yeager BS.

      Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 10:57 am

      • You wrote: “I’ve never found any indication that Elie ever denied having a tattoo.”

        Do you mean that you have never found any indication that Elie CLAIMED that he had a tattoo?

        Why would Elie DENY having a tattoo, when all he ever did was CLAIM that he had a tattoo, but he refused to show it? Finally Elie allowed his bare arms to be photographed and everyone learned that he had been lying for years about having a tattoo.
        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/01/08/elie-wiesel-admits-that-he-has-no-concentration-camp-tattoo/

        Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 11:12 am

        • You wrote: “I’ve never found any indication that Elie ever denied having a tattoo.”

          Do you mean that you have never found any indication that Elie CLAIMED that he had a tattoo?

          “Why would Elie DENY having a tattoo, when all he ever did was CLAIM that he had a tattoo, but he refused to show it? Finally Elie allowed his bare arms to be photographed and everyone learned that he had been lying for years about having a tattoo.
          https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/01/08/elie-wiesel-admits-that-he-has-no-concentration-camp-tattoo/

          Sorry, poor choice of words.

          This b & w photo shows his tattoo. It’s on the top of his forearm, not by his elbow. I guess Carolyn is too stupid to realize that the tattoo would be on the top of his forearm and not his elbow. But, she is just a ridiculous Hitler groupie.

          So, Elie had a tattoo, it’s just hard to see.

          Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 11:20 am

          • You wrote: “[Elie’s tattoo is] on the top of his forearm, not by his elbow.”

            Where and when was this photo taken? Notice that he is wearing a watch. Was this photo taken when Elie was in France after the war? Is this why he is wearing a beret, which was part of the costume of people in France? Allegedly, some of the survivors of Buchenwald were sent to France, and Elie claims that he was among them.

            The tattoos, that were put on the arms of prisoners in Auschwitz, were put on the under side of the forearm, not on the top of the forearm.

            You wrote “I guess Carolyn is too stupid…”

            What is your evidence that Carolyn is stupid? What is her IQ, according to you?

            Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 12:39 pm

            • You wrote: “[Elie’s tattoo is] on the top of his forearm, not by his elbow.”

              “Where and when was this photo taken? Notice that he is wearing a watch. Was this photo taken when Elie was in France after the war? Is this why he is wearing a beret, which was part of the costume of people in France? Allegedly, some of the survivors of Buchenwald were sent to France, and Elie claims that he was among them.”

              Probably so. From what I read about the picture it was taken in the 50’s.

              “The tattoos, that were put on the arms of prisoners in Auschwitz, were put on the under side of the forearm, not on the top of the forearm.”

              I have pictures of both:

              You wrote “I guess Carolyn is too stupid…”

              “What is your evidence that Carolyn is stupid?”

              https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/07/dumb-neo-nazi-carolyn-yeager-attacks.html?m=1

              Also, she apparently never bothered to confirm Wiesel’s tattoo, she just keeps spouting off that he doesn’t have one.

              “What is her IQ, according to you?”

              25

              I’m not sure why you are defending her, she persistently insults you when she posts here.

              Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 1:01 pm

              • Jeff wrote: “From what I read about the picture it was taken in the 50’s.”

                I doubt it.

                In 1949, Elie Wiesel looked like…Elie Wiesel.

                https://jewishphilosophyplace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/ew_on-boat-to-israel.jpg?w=661&h=384

                Wiesel on a boat to Israel in 1949
                http://www.pbs.org/eliewiesel/life/

                Comment by hermie — July 13, 2016 @ 4:38 pm


                • Portrait of Wiesel in his early 20’s
                  http://www.pbs.org/eliewiesel/nobel/

                  Comment by hermie — July 13, 2016 @ 4:58 pm

                • Not to put too fine a point on this but I really don’t give a shit.

                  People can look different in pictures, different hairstyles, lose or gain weight, dress differently, etc., etc. The point is this person has a tattoo, it isn’t clear but it is there. This person is identified as Elie Weisel. From what I can tell, this person looks like Elie Wiesel. So, this is Elie Weisel. You can waste your time posting more pictures, I honestly don’t care.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 5:30 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “The point is this person has a tattoo, it isn’t clear but it is there.”

                  Until anybody provides us with the negatives of this photo or other reliable means to check the authenticity of it, it is not as clear as you want it to be. Could be the most lousy & cheap photo forgery ever produced. I wonder why cyber propagandist Loupi Smith seems to be the only guy on this planet having this pic at his disposal until quite recently.

                  Jeff wrote: “Not to put too fine a point on this but I really don’t give a shit. […] You can waste your time posting more pictures, I honestly don’t care”

                  Holohoaxsters always say that when facing inconvenient or embarrassing stuff. Could be their motto…

                  Jeff wrote: “From what I can tell, this person looks like Elie Wiesel. So, this is Elie Weisel. ”

                  Probably one of the funniest things ever written.😉

                  Comment by hermie — July 13, 2016 @ 6:29 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “The point is this person has a tattoo, it isn’t clear but it is there.”

                  “Until anybody provides us with the negatives of this photo or other reliable means to check the authenticity of it, it is not as clear as you want it to be. Could be the most lousy & cheap photo forgery ever produced. I wonder why cyber propagandist Loupi Smith seems to be the only guy on this planet having this pic at his disposal until quite recently.”

                  I still don’t really give a shit. It’s an old photo from the fifties. That’s pretty much where my interest ends.

                  Jeff wrote: “Not to put too fine a point on this but I really don’t give a shit. […] You can waste your time posting more pictures, I honestly don’t care”

                  “Holohoaxsters always say that when facing inconvenient or embarrassing stuff. Could be their motto…”

                  Your motto is “I don’t have to provide evidence, I’m a denier.”

                  Jeff wrote: “From what I can tell, this person looks like Elie Wiesel. So, this is Elie Weisel. ”

                  “Probably one of the funniest things ever written. ;-)”

                  I’m glad I made you giggle.

                  You know, there are two denier obsessions I really don’t understand.

                  1) The obsession with making an elderly Jewish man show his tattoo.
                  2) The obsession over a teenage Jewish girl’s diary.

                  Both strike me as rather icky. It’s almost a denier fetish.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 6:39 pm

                • Someone wrote: ““Until anybody provides us with the negatives of this photo or other reliable means to check the authenticity of it, it is not as clear as you want it to be. Could be the most lousy & cheap photo forgery ever produced.”

                  Back in the old days, before Photoshop, there was a way to change a photo. The photo was put up on a wall and a new photo was taken of the old photo. The new photo could then be painted to eliminate something, or to add something. Another photo was then taken of the painted photo, to produce a new negative, which was then printed. It was hard to detect a photo that had been enhanced, but an expert news photographer like me could spot a fake photo.

                  Comment by furtherglory — July 14, 2016 @ 7:45 am

                • Jeff wrote: “I still don’t really give a shit. It’s an old photo from the fifties. That’s pretty much where my interest ends.”

                  And that’s pretty much what it is: an old photo from the 1940s or 1950s that shows a young guy who could be your granfather, or mine, or Jim’s dad, or anybody else.

                  Jeff wrote: “Your motto is “I don’t have to provide evidence, I’m a denier.””

                  Almost. I’d rather say “I don’t have to provide evidence, I’m not an accuser.”

                  Jeff wrote: “I’m glad I made you giggle.”

                  And I thank you for that.

                  Jeff wrote: “You know, there are two denier obsessions I really don’t understand. 1) The obsession with making an elderly Jewish man show his tattoo. 2) The obsession over a teenage Jewish girl’s diary. Both strike me as rather icky. It’s almost a denier fetish.”

                  Perhaps you’ll understand that better if you regard Holocaust revisionists as defense lawyers. They just respond to the material brought by the prosecutors charging their clients. Holo-prosecutors and kosher media spent decades making a big deal about Elie Wiesel’s testimony and moral lessons, as well as about Anne Frank’s diary, so Holo defense lawyers spent decades refuting (or trying to refute, according to your views) both pieces. Logical. Even mechanical, Newtonian. Action-reaction.

                  Comment by hermie — July 13, 2016 @ 8:07 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “I still don’t really give a shit. It’s an old photo from the fifties. That’s pretty much where my interest ends.”

                  “And that’s pretty much what it is: an old photo from the 1940s or 1950s that shows a young guy who could be your granfather, or mine, or Jim’s dad, or anybody else.”

                  Except that this picture shows Elie Wiesel with a tattoo.
                  Maybe I should think harder about this subject.
                  Hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm.
                  No, I still don’t give a 💩.

                  Jeff wrote: “Your motto is “I don’t have to provide evidence, I’m a denier.””

                  “Almost. I’d rather say “I don’t have to provide evidence, I’m not an accuser.”

                  Easy excuse for someone who has no real evidence.

                  Jeff wrote: “I’m glad I made you giggle.”

                  “And I thank you for that.”

                  You’re welcome.

                  Jeff wrote: “You know, there are two denier obsessions I really don’t understand. 1) The obsession with making an elderly Jewish man show his tattoo. 2) The obsession over a teenage Jewish girl’s diary. Both strike me as rather icky. It’s almost a denier fetish.”

                  “Perhaps you’ll understand that better if you regard Holocaust revisionists as defense lawyers.”

                  What?!?!?!?
                  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

                  “They just respond to the material brought by the prosecutors charging their clients.”

                  WTF are you talking about??????????
                  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

                  “Holo-prosecutors and kosher media spent decades making a big deal about Elie Wiesel’s testimony and moral lessons, as well as about Anne Frank’s diary, so Holo defense lawyers spent decades refuting (or trying to refute, according to your views) both pieces. Logical. Even mechanical, Newtonian. Action-reaction.”

                  OMG that’s funny. THANK YOU.

                  😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😅😅😂😂😂😅😅😅😂

                  I almost 💩 myself.

                  Wait, you were kidding, right?

                  Hermie, regardless of ol’ Elie’s tattoo, Anne Frank’s diary is genuine. Not even our esteemed hostess denies that the diary is real. Besides, history isn’t built on a girl’s diary or an old man’s tattoo. That’s just weird denier nitpicking over a girl who’s been dead for what, 71 years?
                  Frankly, I could care less about either. I’ve never read Anne Frank’s Diary, it was never a requirement in any class I took. The same goes for “Night,” I’ve never read it and I don’t intend to. If I was going to read something like that I’d probably read Primo Levy, I understand his writing is excellent. However, those type of books have no interest for me. I prefer my history without the drama.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 8:50 pm

                • Jeff wrote: “Except that this picture shows Elie Wiesel with a tattoo.”

                  You or others still have to prove conclusively that the pic actually shows Elie Wiesel and a tattoo. But we both know that neither yourself nor any other Holohoaxster will even try to do that. As usually, Holohoaxsters will just repeat on and on that it’s a pic of Elie Wiesel with a tattoo until almost everybody believes them.

                  Jeff wrote: “What?!?!?!?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 WTF are you talking about??????????
                  😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 OMG that’s funny. THANK YOU. 😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😅😅😂😂😂😅😅😅😂”

                  In what world do 60 smilies amount to a real response?

                  Jeff wrote: “I almost 💩 myself. “Wait, you were kidding, right?”

                  No, I was not. And you know it. But you also know that if you accept a normal burden of proof for the ‘Holocaust,’ the myth is dead within 10 minutes. So you just flee as if there was anything funny in my argument. Why not? It will maybe impress dumb bimbos such as Click after all…

                  Jeff wrote: “Hermie, regardless of ol’ Elie’s tattoo, Anne Frank’s diary is genuine. Not even our esteemed hostess denies that the diary is real. Besides, history isn’t built on a girl’s diary or an old man’s tattoo. That’s just weird denier nitpicking over a girl who’s been dead for what, 71 years? Frankly, I could care less about either. I’ve never read Anne Frank’s Diary, it was never a requirement in any class I took. The same goes for “Night,” I’ve never read it and I don’t intend to. If I was going to read something like that I’d probably read Primo Levy, I understand his writing is excellent. However, those type of books have no interest for me. I prefer my history without the drama.”

                  But the masses don’t read Hilberg’s and Browning’s books. They just watch movies about Anne Frank and TV shows with Wiesel teaching cheap philosophy to Oprah at Auschwitz. For them, the ‘Holocaust’ is roughly what Anne Frank and Elie Wiesel said, together with impressive pics of victims of the Belsen health disaster and specific scenes of Schindler’s List.

                  Comment by hermie — July 14, 2016 @ 4:12 am

      • You wrote: “After all, 3 million of their [Polish] Jews perished.”
        Where did you get the information that 3 million Jews died in Poland? What was the total population of Poland during the war years?

        I wrote about the records kept by the Germans during the war years at
        https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/30000-records-kept-by-the-nazis-but-not-one-name-of-anyone-who-died-in-a-gas-chamber/

        Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 11:21 am

        • “You wrote: “After all, 3 million of their [Polish] Jews perished.”
          Where did you get the information that 3 million Jews died in Poland? What was the total population of Poland during the war years?”

          The pre-war Jewish population of Poland was about 3.3 million. About 3 million died:

          http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/killedtable.html

          Poland itself had about 35 million people total, I’ve seen estimates that 1.9-3 million non-Jewish Poles died during the war.

          Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 12:40 pm

          • You cited the JewishVirtualLibrary as your source. Do you think that this web site is unbiased? This is a JEWISH SOURCE. Do you think that their figures are accurate? I think that, if you check other sources, you would find a different total.

            Try this source: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/30000-records-kept-by-the-nazis-but-not-one-name-of-anyone-who-died-in-a-gas-chamber/

            Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 12:47 pm

            • “You cited the JewishVirtualLibrary as your source. Do you think that this web site is unbiased? This is a JEWISH SOURCE. Do you think that their figures are accurate? I think that, if you check other sources, you would find a different total.”

              What other sources would you suggest?

              Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 1:02 pm

              • You wrote: “What other sources would you suggest?”

                If you do a search on the word “Holocaust” on the internet, you will find nothing except True Believer websites. Holocaust denial is now against the law in 19 countries, which means that no one in these countries can put up a website without fear of going to prison. There are no Holocaust denial websites, not even my scrapbookpages.com website. You can read what Germar Rudolf wrote, which resulted in him spending 14 years in prison.

                Comment by furtherglory — July 13, 2016 @ 2:10 pm

          • Before anyone can say definitively that “about” 3 million Polish Jews died, would it not be a good idea to find out if that number of Jews were actually living within the boundaries of the then existing Polish territorial boundaries in September 1939. The last census that was taken – I believe – was in 1931.

            Secondly; is it not likely that sizeable numbers of Jews either fled Poland, or were deported to the east by the Soviets between September 1939 and June 1941.

            Thirdly; no one knows how many Jews went into hiding inside Poland itself during the war – or changed their names and identities to gentile ones, only to retain these new identities afterwards.

            Fourthly; nobody can give an approximate total for the number of Polish Jews who were liberated from Nazi camps by the Red Army, and later finished up scattered far and wide across the vast territory of the Soviet Union during the post war years.

            Fifthly; nobody is able to provide totals for the numbers of Polish Jews who found themselves, first as refugees, and then in displacement camps, in Western Europe, before being granted permission to emigrate to other countries throughout the world.

            Comment by Talbot — July 13, 2016 @ 1:57 pm

            • “Before anyone can say definitively that “about” 3 million Polish Jews died, would it not be a good idea”

              Ask and you shall receive, Talbot.

              to find out if that number of Jews were actually living within the boundaries of the then existing Polish territorial boundaries in September 1939. The last census that was taken – I believe – was in 1931.

              Here is a list of emigration statistics, Talbot.

              http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Population_and_Migration/Migration_since_World_War_I

              Secondly; is it not likely that sizeable numbers of Jews either fled Poland, or were deported to the east by the Soviets between September 1939 and June 1941.

              See here for that as well:

              http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Population_and_Migration/Migration_since_World_War_I

              Oh, and this as well:

              http://museum.gulagmemories.eu/en/media/les-deportations

              And this:

              http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/poland/poland_since_1939

              Thirdly; no one knows how many Jews went into hiding inside Poland itself during the war – or changed their names and identities to gentile ones, only to retain these new identities afterwards.

              Who knows? Really, who cares? That number was probably very minimal.

              Fourthly; nobody can give an approximate total for the number of Polish Jews who were liberated from Nazi camps by the Red Army, and later finished up scattered far and wide across the vast territory of the Soviet Union during the post war years.

              You are right but the thing is, Talbot, most of the Jewish survivors in those camps were driven out on death marches to Germany. They wound up in places like Dachau and Bergen Belsen, they weren’t liberated by the Red Army in Poland.

              “Fifthly; nobody is able to provide totals for the numbers of Polish Jews who found themselves, first as refugees, and then in displacement camps, in Western Europe, before being granted permission to emigrate to other countries throughout the world.”

              Actually, Talbot, we can. In fact, there was an inquiry after the war regarding Jewish refugees:

              http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/angap03.asp

              I found all of this after about 30 minutes of research on-line. I’m not really sure why I did this, it might behoove you to do a little research before posting such questions, see if you can find the answers.

              Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 7:07 pm

              • The “yivoencyclopedia” website is of course a Jewish organisation, and thus its information and data will be carefully constructed to portray a “holocaust” version of events. So, we have to be careful of accepting its assertions and conclusions at face value.

                And although I don’t dismiss the “gulagmemories” website – I certainly wouldn’t accept what they say at face value without some kind of corroborating evidence.

                The “Avalon Project” produces a table estimating the number of Jews living in Europe, country by country in 1939 and in 1946, with a list of people that it claims are displaced or living as refugees.

                But what caught my eye were the figures for the Soviet Union. It claims there were 13,560,000 Jews living in that country in 1939, and just 2,665,000 remaining in 1946. That means, that almost 11 million Russian Jews disappeared or perished during the war!

                Well, the entire Holohoax itself only totals 6 million Jews – so one has to ask if there is something drastically wrong with these figures. But the table does have the grace to admit that the numbers are only “estimated” – and as they say, your estimate is as good as mine pal !

                We see the number of Jews claimed to be living in Poland in 1939 amounts to about 3.3 million. But this total is based upon the 1931 census, and so it is really just guess-work that this number is anything like the reality for 8 years later.

                But to sum-up, there is an old saying that could well be applied to all these holocaust figures;- “There are lies – damned lies – and official statistics”!

                Comment by Talbot — July 14, 2016 @ 7:27 am

                • “The “yivoencyclopedia” website is of course a Jewish organisation, and thus its information and data will be carefully constructed to portray a “holocaust” version of events. So, we have to be careful of accepting its assertions and conclusions at face value.”

                  Then provide your evidence to the contrary.

                  “And although I don’t dismiss the “gulagmemories” website – I certainly wouldn’t accept what they say at face value without some kind of corroborating evidence.”

                  You’re up, then. Please provide any evidence to the contrary.

                  “The “Avalon Project” produces a table estimating the number of Jews living in Europe, country by country in 1939 and in 1946, with a list of people that it claims are displaced or living as refugees.

                  But what caught my eye were the figures for the Soviet Union. It claims there were 13,560,000 Jews living in that country in 1939, and just 2,665,000 remaining in 1946. That means, that almost 11 million Russian Jews disappeared or perished during the war!”

                  Actually, that’s an “oopsie.” Someone put a “1” at the end. If you look at the bottom of the table it is properly calculated.

                  “Well, the entire Holohoax itself only totals 6 million Jews – so one has to ask if there is something drastically wrong with these figures. But the table does have the grace to admit that the numbers are only “estimated” – and as they say, your estimate is as good as mine pal !”

                  Please provide all evidence to the contrary.

                  “We see the number of Jews claimed to be living in Poland in 1939 amounts to about 3.3 million. But this total is based upon the 1931 census, and so it is really just guess-work that this number is anything like the reality for 8 years later.”

                  Please provide all relevant information you feel is pertinent. Please provide the numbers of Jews that left Poland, also be sure to keep in mind natural population growth.

                  The best thing for you to provide is the number of Jews that left after 1931 through 1939. Then provide population statistics regarding births for Jewish families.

                  “But to sum-up, there is an old saying that could well be applied to all these holocaust figures;- “There are lies – damned lies – and official statistics”!”

                  That’s a fascinating observation.

                  I’ll tell you what, Talbot. Tabulate your results from the information I’ve asked for, we’ll compare notes and see the difference.

                  Let me know when you are done.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 10:01 am

                • Jeff, old chap – could you provide us with the names, ages and former addresses of the 3 million Polish Jews who you claimed perished in what is known as the “holocaust”.

                  Please will you provide us with detailed information as to where they died; when they died; and how they died.

                  Could you pin-point the actual locations where their earthly remains lie buried.

                  Comment by Talbot — July 14, 2016 @ 10:16 am

                • “Jeff, old chap – could you provide us with the names, ages and former addresses of the 3 million Polish Jews who you claimed perished in what is known as the “holocaust”.

                  Please will you provide us with detailed information as to where they died; when they died; and how they died.

                  Could you pin-point the actual locations where their earthly remains lie buried.”

                  Talbot, old bean, could you please provide the information I requested in my last reply?

                  BTW, I’m still waiting on the maintenance schedule for the Arc Royal.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 10:48 am

                • And I’m still waiting to find out who Willie Just was – and what happened to him.

                  Comment by Talbot — July 14, 2016 @ 11:07 am

                • “And I’m still waiting to find out who Willie Just was – and what happened to him.”

                  That’s nice.

                  However, so far this has been a one-way street, old bean.

                  I’ve done research, posted documents, given you websites to look at, witness statements to peruse. So far you’ve failed to provide any evidence of your own.

                  So, now I want to see what you have. What information do you have to refute the demographic information I’ve provided?

                  No more of this “oops it’s Jewish therefore it’s unreliable” jazz. You need to prove to me why it’s unreliable. I need to see counter documentation on why it’s unreliable.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — July 14, 2016 @ 11:27 am

      • Well, if the Poles are in a much better position to determine the truth of the holocaust that either myself or Elie Weisel, then one might ask why the US educational establishment is not requiring the nation’s students to read books written by Polish-approved authors, rather than a Hungarian/Rumanian’s personal account, which is by no means authoritative, because he does not mention these mysterious gas chambers in his book, but refers to pits full of burning lives babies – which no one else seems to have witnessed.

        Comment by Talbot — July 13, 2016 @ 11:36 am

        • “Well, if the Poles are in a much better position to determine the truth of the holocaust that either myself or Elie Weisel, then one might ask why the US educational establishment is not requiring the nation’s students to read books written by Polish-approved authors, rather than a Hungarian/Rumanian’s personal account, which is by no means authoritative, because he does not mention these mysterious gas chambers in his book, but refers to pits full of burning lives babies – which no one else seems to have witnessed.”

          The US Education system doesn’t work in the way you described, Talbot. While there is a Federal Department of Education, it only sets basic guidelines that school districts have to follow. The states and local districts in each state set the curriculum that students follow. So, for example and to keep this somewhat on topic, Holocaust Education is only mandatory in some states but not others.
          So, I myself never read “Night” or “Anne Frank’s Diary” because the schools I attended didn’t have that as required. I have a somewhat unique perspective, I lived in Texas through the 8th Grade and moved to Oklahoma before the 9th Grade. I saw the difference between two state systems. For example, I took Texas history in the 8th Grade and Oklahoma history in the 9th. The Texas history book was massive, the Oklahoma history book was tiny compared to it.
          My point about the Poles is this:
          They have their own authors on this subject, they don’t need Elie Wiesel.

          Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 12:29 pm

  5. Why should the Poles have “Night” on their school curriculum?
    Wiesel was Romanian, not a Pole.

    Poland lost three million Jews to the Holocaust, it’s their decision how they want this history taught in their schools.

    Comment by Jeff K. — July 13, 2016 @ 9:43 am


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