The first place that I visited, when I started traveling to Holocaust sites in 1998, was Treblinka, a camp in Poland where it is claimed, by Holocaust True Believers, that millions of Jews were killed. Holocaust deniers claim that Treblinka was a transit camp. I believe that it was a transit camp, but what do I know?
My 1998 photo of a huge monument at Treblinka
The huge monument at Treblinka, shown in the photo above, is located on the spot where the Jews were allegedly killed. No one is allowed to dig anywhere near this monument to prove, or disprove, that bodies were buried there.
You can read a news story about a trip to Holocaust sites in Poland, taken recently by Pam Kancher, on this website: http://www.heritagefl.com/story/2016/09/23/features/there-but-for-the-grace-of-god-go-i/6856.html
Begin quote
This past July, the Holocaust Center sponsored its first Jewish Heritage Tour to Poland and Prague. Thirty people joined me [Pam Karcher] on an emotional 10-day journey of reflection and remembrance. At our recent reunion we each shared a memory that stood out from all the rest. By far the most meaningful experience I had was visiting the Treblinka memorial.
Treblinka was the site of the Nazis’ second-largest extermination camp after Auschwitz-Birkenau. It is estimated that from July 1942 through November 1943 between 870,000 and 925,000 Jews were killed there-on average 2,000 men, women and children were gassed each day and their bodies burnt on huge, open-air cremation pyres.
Treblinka was not a work camp. It was built as a death camp. Jews were deported there from the Warsaw Ghetto as well as from other areas of Central Poland, primarily Warsaw, Radom and Krakow. Following an uprising by the prisoners in August 1943, the extermination camp was demolished and abandoned.
[The most important part of the news article is this quote:]
The Treblinka Museum of Struggle and Martyrdom, dedicated in 1964, was built in the shadow of the gas chambers, the original buildings having long ago been plowed and planted over. The only thing left were the ashes and memories. The outdoor museum is a symbolic Jewish cemetery made of 17,000 boulders of varying shapes and sizes-some say they represent the lost Jewish communities of the Holocaust. One hundred-forty of the boulders were engraved with the name of a town or village from which the Jews were deported.
End quote
My 1998 photo of the symbolic cemetery at Treblinka
There are no bodies that were buried in the location of the symbolic cemetery, shown in my photo above. That is why it is called a SYMBOLIC cemetery, not an actual cemetery where bodies are buried. The purpose of this symbolic cemetery is to prevent anyone from digging up the ground to see if any bodies are actually buried there.
In my humble opinion, there are no bodies buried in this area because Treblinka was a TRANSIT camp, where no Jews were deliberately killed.
My 1998 photo of Symbolic cemetery behind Treblinka Monument
Scrapbookpages Blog 
Tim the mass Graves is a joke if they said they buried as many people as they say there wouldn’t have been any room in the camp for anything else hundreds of thousands of bodies would have taken up the whole Camp who are these people kidding.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 4:25 pm
“Tim the mass Graves is a joke if they said they buried as many people as they say there wouldn’t have been any room in the camp for anything else hundreds of thousands of bodies would have taken up the whole Camp who are these people kidding.”
No kidding, where did the Jews go?
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 5:22 pm
BROI:
“Sorry for the delay in responding.”
Quite all right. I was at an amusement park with the family today, I understand.
JK >>>> The area is obviously disturbed, especially to the right.
“Yeah, Krege’s findings presented in Moscow [if accurately reported] are clearly nonsense. CSC recovered numerous structural remains in a 1m² trench dug in an area which contains many buried objects [see the GPR scan on p.180, and details of the trench on p.186 of her 2015 book]. Krege’s lawnmower didn’t pick up on those, nor the particular grave shown in CSC’s GPR scan [p. 154] or the others she states were found.”
I don’t have the Stolls book though I did watch her special.
“Even Kues wrote “it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed at Treblinka” for the “somewhere in the low tens of thousands” of Jews who died en route to T2, and those who were “euthanised”, died in epidemics or were killed for disobeying orders etc. Mattogno probably says something similar in their enormous book.”
I also look at what the Poles found after the war:
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpoltreb1.htm
I also mentioned the locals digging for “Jew gold:”
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/99982/the-treblinka-gold-rush
The article also mentions the same thing happened at Belzec.
“So Krege’s ‘didn’t find nuffin’ claim is not looking good, and I might wager that we’ll not hear anymore about his 1999/2000 Treblinka survey. At least not from him.”
I agree, Krege should have found something. The fact that he is not releasing his results is very telling.
JK >>>> Plus, big picture, where did these Jews go if this was a “transit camp?”
““Jews went where Jews are”, Jeff. Don’t you even Hannover!”
Good grief, Hannover.
I haven’t checked into CODOH in a while, I’m not sure I even remember my login.
“But, yeah; you list numerous factors that are immensely problematic for the TC theory. If the complete absence of evidence* wasn’t already bad enough.”
This is the part that Holocaust denial cannot explain. It goes deeper, of course. There is a lack of evidence regarding the fate of the Hungarian Jews in 1944, though some were definitely transferred to other camps. Or why the Chelmno “transit camp” was reopened without having anywhere to “transit” the Lodz Jews to (though if memory serves some of them did wind up in Auschwitz).
* Of course I’m aware of the three letters and one message which refer to Sobibor as a “TC” and Karski’s life-long claim to have visited specifically Belzec and seeing Jews being put onto trains to be taken elsewhere. But they’re really not all that helpful to the TC cause.”
It is now believed that instead of Belzec Karski visited a transit camp in Izbica and he misidentified it as Belzec:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/survivor/karskiizbica.html
I used to have something on this from Christopher Browning but I can’t track it down.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 1, 2016 @ 11:02 pm
The *Karski confused Izbica for Belzec* theory is a short and tidy explanation for those who want to believe it, but it’s thoroughly unconvincing. Karski always maintained—from his first report to his final interview—that he had visited Belzec. It was an area the Pole knew, unlike the legion of Americans and West Europeans who claim he was confused about where he went.
“Karski knew the area well. He had attended the University of Lvov, just 45 miles from Belzec. In December 1939, he had seen an earlier camp for Jews located near Belzec. He had described this camp in a 1940 report, and mentioned the town of Belzec by name, correctly locating it “on the boundary of the territories occupied by the Bolsheviks.” The supposition that he confused Belzec with Izbica is far-fetched.”
“The lists of transports in Yitzhak Arad’s standard book on the Reinhardt camps contains no transports departing Izbica between May 15 and October 22, 1942. A more recent list of all transports to and from Izbica contains some transports missing from Arad’s book, but confirms that no transport departed Izbica at any time even approximating the date of Karski’s visit. Thus, the Izbica thesis fails on simple matters of chronology. Jan Karski cannot have visited Izbica and witnessed a transport of Jews being loaded to depart, because no transports of Jews departed Izbica at the time he allegedly visited. In contrast, Belzec was at the peak of its activity at the time of Karski’s visit.”
Those quote are from an excellent article by revisionist Friedrich Jansson:
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2014/volume_6/number_4/jan_karskis_visit_to_belzec.php
___________________
Jeff K: This is the part that Holocaust denial cannot explain. It goes deeper, of course. There is a lack of evidence regarding the fate of the Hungarian Jews in 1944, though some were definitely transferred to other camps. Or why the Chelmno “transit camp” was reopened without having anywhere to “transit” the Lodz Jews to (though if memory serves some of them did wind up in Auschwitz).
I don’t disagree. Although I think the number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz is considerably higher that F. Piper and van Pelt’s total of c.25,000. Following a 26.06.44 complaint about the state of Hungarian Jews from Auschwitz arriving at a Dachau sub-camp, the chief of the prisoner clothing-warehouse at Birkenau wrote:
“In order to clarify the situation, the following describes the complete process from the arrival of the Hungarian Jewish prisoners to the train embarkation. […] The clothing-department of the camp Auschwitz have clothed since May 16, 1944 until today about 57,000 inmates and prepared 48 transports with 45,132 prisoners for the departure, without receiving the least complaint until now.”
http://codoh.com/library/document/357/?page=1
I’m not suggesting this answers your point about the lack of evidence for *where they went*, particularly in regard to the AR camps and Chelmno.
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 2, 2016 @ 6:15 am
BROI:
BROI: “Sorry for the delay in responding.” Quite all right. I was at an amusement park with the family today, I understand. JK >>>> The area is obviously disturbed, especially to the right. “Yeah, Krege’s findings presented in Moscow [if accurately reported] are clearly nonsense. CSC recovered numerous structural remains in a 1m² trench dug […]
The *Karski confused Izbica for Belzec* theory is a short and tidy explanation for those who want to believe it, but it’s thoroughly unconvincing. Karski always maintained—from his first report to his final interview—that he had visited Belzec. It was an area the Pole knew, unlike the legion of Americans and West Europeans who claim he was confused about where he went.
“Karski knew the area well. He had attended the University of Lvov, just 45 miles from Belzec. In December 1939, he had seen an earlier camp for Jews located near Belzec. He had described this camp in a 1940 report, and mentioned the town of Belzec by name, correctly locating it “on the boundary of the territories occupied by the Bolsheviks.” The supposition that he confused Belzec with Izbica is far-fetched.”
I actually don’t dispute any of this. The issue is that the camps Karski described in 1940 closed thereafter.
“The lists of transports in Yitzhak Arad’s standard book on the Reinhardt camps contains no transports departing Izbica between May 15 and October 22, 1942. A more recent list of all transports to and from Izbica contains some transports missing from Arad’s book, but confirms that no transport departed Izbica at any time even approximating the date of Karski’s visit. Thus, the Izbica thesis fails on simple matters of chronology. Jan Karski cannot have visited Izbica and witnessed a transport of Jews being loaded to depart, because no transports of Jews departed Izbica at the time he allegedly visited. In contrast, Belzec was at the peak of its activity at the time of Karski’s visit.”
Those quote are from an excellent article by revisionist Friedrich Jansson:
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2014/volume_6/number_4/jan_karskis_visit_to_belzec.php
I read that article yesterday.
This is what Karski said about “Belzec” (see link to Holocaust Research Project):
“on a large, flat plain and occupied about a square mile. It was surrounded on all sides by a formidable barbed-wire fence, nearly two yards in height and in good repair. Inside the fence, at intervals of about fifteen yards, guards were standing holding rifles with fixed bayonets ready for use. Around the outside of the fence militia men circulated on constant patrol.
The camp itself contained a few small sheds or barracks. The rest of the area was completely covered by a dense, pulsating, throbbing, noisy human mass. Starved, stinking, gesticulating, insane human beings in constant, agitated motion.”
This does not match the description of Belzec as we know it. This reminds me more of the “camps” the Wehrmacht set up for Red Army POWs in the Summer and Fall of 1941, barren areas surrounded by barbed wire with very few structures. The words small “sheds or barracks” are somewhat confusing, I picture barracks as long, low buildings, sheds are much smaller buildings.
The Belzec Death Camp was divided into two areas surrounded by barbed wire:
“entire camp occupied a relatively small, almost square area. Three sides measured 275m, the fourth on the southern side measured 265 meters. An adjoining timber yard was incorporated into the camp which was surrounded by a double fence of chicken wire and barbed wire.
The outer fence was camouflaged with tree branches. During the later reorganisation of the camp, the space between the two fences was filled with rolls of barbed wire. On the eastern side, another barrier was erected on a steep slope by fixing the tree trunks to wooden planks. During the second phase of the camp’s existence, a wooden fence was built along the side of the road at the foot of the steep eastern slope. A line of trees was planted between the western outer fence and the Lublin – Lvov railway line.
Four watchtowers were constructed: on the northeast and northwest sides, at the southwest corner and at the most westerly point of the camp. The north eastern tower was constructed on top of a concrete bunker at the highest point of the Belzec terrain, providing an excellent vantage point over the entire camp.
A fifth tower in the centre of the camp overlooked the entire length of “the sluice,” also known as “the Tube,” the camouflaged barbed wire pathway to the gas chambers. The watchtowers in the corners were manned by Ukrainian volksdeutsche from the Trawniki SS- Training Camp, armed with rifles. The central tower was equipped with a heavy machine gun and searchlight. In the camp’s second phase, further watchtowers were erected, including one positioned at the far end of the ramp.
The guardhouse, permanently manned by SS men and Ukrainians, was located close to the entrance gate, on the west side of the camp. There was a compound for the Trawnikimanner to the east of the main gate. The Ukrainian area included three barracks, comprising two large huts and one smaller structure. The first large hut was used as housing for the Trawnikimanner. The second large hut housed the sickbay, a dentist and a barber. The third and smallest of the structures was used as the kitchen and canteen.
Belzec was divided into two sections, Camp 1 in the northern and western section, was the reception area and included the railway ramp, which could only accommodate 10 wagons. Some sources suggest that a disused siding was subsequently added to provide a second ramp for the latter phase of the exterminations.
Together the two ramps would have provided unloading facilities for many more wagons. However, according to other testimonies, every transport was divided into segments of 10 wagons. Initially, only the first segment of the transport was pushed into the camp.”
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/belzec.html
I believe the SS men quartered in the town.
___________________
Jeff K: This is the part that Holocaust denial cannot explain. It goes deeper, of course. There is a lack of evidence regarding the fate of the Hungarian Jews in 1944, though some were definitely transferred to other camps. Or why the Chelmno “transit camp” was reopened without having anywhere to “transit” the Lodz Jews to (though if memory serves some of them did wind up in Auschwitz).
“I don’t disagree. Although I think the number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz is considerably higher that F. Piper and van Pelt’s total of c.25,000. Following a 26.06.44 complaint about the state of Hungarian Jews from Auschwitz arriving at a Dachau sub-camp, the chief of the prisoner clothing-warehouse at Birkenau wrote:
“In order to clarify the situation, the following describes the complete process from the arrival of the Hungarian Jewish prisoners to the train embarkation. […] The clothing-department of the camp Auschwitz have clothed since May 16, 1944 until today about 57,000 inmates and prepared 48 transports with 45,132 prisoners for the departure, without receiving the least complaint until now.”
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. However, what happened to those who couldn’t work? We know selections took place, there are pictures. CODOH even shows one (please, though, they could spare me the crap about the “non-smoking chimneys”).
Where did these people go? The Germans had no use for them, they were nothing but a burden.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 11:08 am
Jeff K >>> The issue is that the camps Karski described in 1940 closed thereafter.
!?! The *issue* is whether the highly intelligent Karski knew where Belzec was or not.
In February 1940 Karski wrote a detailed report titled “The Jewish Problem in the Homeland” containing a section called “The Jewish Camp Near Belzec” in which he described what he saw when he watched the camp for an hour during December 1939.
So how can anyone seriously suggest that less than 3 years later this same man, whilst writing about another type of camp for Jews in Belzec, was completely confused about where he was?
The Izbica theorists all waited until he died before rewriting his story. As I said before, he never altered the fundamentals of his claim about where he’d been and what he had seen there.
Jeff K >>> The words small “sheds or barracks” are somewhat confusing, I picture barracks as long, low buildings, sheds are much smaller buildings.
We see at least five small sheds/barracks positioned side-by-side in the Belzec photo of Kurt Franz, and in two other photos shown here:
http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/photos_de.html
I’ll respond to the AB bit tomorrow; it’s late.
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 2, 2016 @ 7:04 pm
“Jeff K >>> The issue is that the camps Karski described in 1940 closed thereafter.
“!?! The *issue* is whether the highly intelligent Karski knew where Belzec was or not.
In February 1940 Karski wrote a detailed report titled “The Jewish Problem in the Homeland” containing a section called “The Jewish Camp Near Belzec” in which he described what he saw when he watched the camp for an hour during December 1939.
So how can anyone seriously suggest that less than 3 years later this same man, whilst writing about another type of camp for Jews in Belzec, was completely confused about where he was?”
The confusion lies with the fact that what he describes doesn’t describe the Death Camp Belzec as we know it.
“The Izbica theorists all waited until he died before rewriting his story. As I said before, he never altered the fundamentals of his claim about where he’d been and what he had seen there.”
I thought Karski corrected this later in life. I’ll see if I can find something on it.
Jeff K >>> The words small “sheds or barracks” are somewhat confusing, I picture barracks as long, low buildings, sheds are much smaller buildings.
“We see at least five small sheds/barracks positioned side-by-side in the Belzec photo of Kurt Franz, and in two other photos shown here:
http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/photos_de.html”
Ok.
What about the guardhouse for the Ukrainians? Or the timber yard? Karski never described those. He also never described the watchtowers that overlooked the camp or the fact that the camp was in two sections.
Here is a map:
A map of the “First Phase:”
“Second Phase:”
From what I can tell Karski’s alleged visit took place during the “Second Phase” so the camp was complete with new gas chambers and barracks.
http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/belzec.html
I found a more complete description of his visit:
http://madness-visible.blogspot.com/2011/05/jan-karskis-visit-to-belzec.html?m=1
In it he describes what happened when the Jews were loaded into the trains:
“stipulates that a freight car may carry eight horses or forty soldiers. Without any baggage at all, a maxium of a hundred passengers standing close together and pressing against each other could be crowded into a car. The Germans had simply issued orders to the effect that 120 to 130 Jews had to enter each car. These orders were now being carried out. Alternately swinging and firing with their rifles, the policemen were forcing still more people into the two cars which were already over-full. The shots continued to ring out in the rear and the driven mob surged forward, exerting an irresistible pressure against those nearest the train. These unfortunates, crazed by what they had been through, scourged by the policemen, and shoved forward by the milling mob, then began to climb on the heads and shoulders of those in the trains.
Therese were helpless since they had the weight of the entire advancing throng against them and responded only with howls of anguish to those who, clutching at their hair and clothes for support, trampling on necks, faces and shoulders, breaking bones and shouting with insensate furty, attempting to clamber over them. After the cars had laready been filled beyond normal capacity, more than another score of human beings, men, women and children gained admittance in this fashion. Then the policemen slammed the doors across the hastily withdrawn limbs that still protruded and pushed the iron bars in place.
The two cars were now crammed to bursting with tightly pakced human flesh, completely, hermetically filled. All this while the entire camp had reverberated with a tremendous volume of sound in which the hideous groans and screams mingled with shots, curses and bellowed commands.
Nor was this all. I know that many people will not believe me, will not be able to believe me, will think I exaggerate or invent. But I saw it and it is not exaggerated or invented. I have no other proofs, no photographs. All I can say is that I saw it and that it is the truth.
The floors of the car had been covered with a thick, white powder. It was quicklime. Quicklime is simply unslaked lime or calcium oxice that has been dehydrated. Anyone who has seen cement being mixed knows what occurs when water is poured on lime. The mixture bubbles and steams as the powdeer combines with the water, generating a large amount of heat.
Here the lime served a double purpose in the Nazi economy of brutality. The moist flesh coming in ocntact with the lime is rapidly dehydrated and burned. The occupants of the cars would be literally burned to death before long, the flesh eaten from their bones. Thus the Jews would “die in agony” fulfilling the promise Himmler had issued “in accord with the will of the Fuehrer,” in Warsaw, in 1942. Secondly, the lime would prevent decomposing bodies from spreading disease. It was efficient and inexpensive — a perfectly chosen agent for their purposes.
It took three hours to fill up the entire train by repititions of this procedure. It was twilight when the forty-six (I counted them) cars were packed. From one end to the other, the train, with its quivering cargo of flesh, seemed to throb, vibrate, rock and jump as if bewitched. There would be a strangely uniform momentary lull and then, again, the train would begin to moan and sob, wail and howl. Inside the camp a few score dead bodies remained and a few in the final throes of death. German policemen walked around at leisure with smoking guns, pumping bullets into anything, that by a moan or motion betrayed an excess of vitality. Soon, not a single one was left alive. In the now quiet camp the only sounds were the inhuman screams that were echoes from the moving train. Then these, too, ceased. All that was now left was the stench of excrement and rotting straw and a queer, sickening, acidulous odor which, I thought, may have come from the quantities of blood that had been let, and with which the ground was stained.
As I listened to the dwindling outcries from the train, I thought of the destination toward which it was speeding. My informants had minutely described the entire journey. The train would travel about eighty miles and finally come to a halt in an empty, barren field. Then nothing at all would happen. The train would stand stock-still, patiently waiting while death penetrated into every corner of its interior. This would take from two to four days.
When quicklime, asphyxiation, and injuries had silenced every outcry, a group of men would appear. They would be young, strong Jews, assigned to the task of cleaning out these cars until their own turn to be in them should arrive. Under a strong guard they would unseal the cars and expel the heaps of decomposing bodies. The mounds of flesh that they piled up would then be burned and the remnants buried in a single huge hole . The cleaning, burning and burial would consume one or two full days.
The entire process of disposal would take, then, from three to six days. During this period the camp would have recruited new victims. The train would return and the whole cycle would be repeated from the beginning.”
This method of death is incorrect, akin to the “steam chambers” or “electrocution chambers.”
Keep in mind Karski received this information from informants, so second or even third hand.
So, seeing this leads me to believe that Karski was mistaken. What he saw was a collection or transit camp, not Belzec.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 3, 2016 @ 9:57 am
Once again Jeff, sorry for the delay in responding. I was planning to visit the library to check a book on JK but I haven’t made it there yet.
Jeff>>>”I thought Karski corrected this later in life. I’ll see if I can find something on it.”
I don’t believe he did, but I’ve certainly not read everything on him. Here he is in 1996 still claiming he visited a death camp from which the Jews left in a train, this time to be shot. Although he claims to have gotten off the train in Lublin and walked to the death camp; Lublin’s 57km as the crow flies from Izbica and 114km from Belzec.
I don’t put too much stock in him missing features and generally his description of the camp differing from what’s now accepted. Think of all the vastly differing maps of Treblinka 2 drawn by inmates who spent far longer in the camp than JK claimed to have spent at Belzec.
JK’s method of execution isn’t wrong like the steam and electrocution chambers were wrong, he stated in 1943 through to 1996 that he saw Jews leaving the site alive to die/be killed and cremated elsewhere.
As for his December 1939 visit to the “The Jewish Camp Near Belzec”; these photos taken from the site linked below show that what appears to be the main camp in Belzec was only feet from where the extermination camp was later situated. So, JK had literally been to this place before, which makes the claim he confused it for Izbica even more absurd.
http://holocaust-history-archive.com/wp/arbeitslager-belzec-photos/
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 6, 2016 @ 6:00 pm
Thanks for your reply.
I’ve got e-mail alerts set for the posts I follow so if you get busy and don’t get a chance to reply no worries, I can see when you reply.
Or you can post later on FG’s later posts.
BROI:
“I don’t believe he did, but I’ve certainly not read everything on him. Here he is in 1996 still claiming he visited a death camp from which the Jews left in a train, this time to be shot. Although he claims to have gotten off the train in Lublin and walked to the death camp; Lublin’s 57km as the crow flies from Izbica and 114km from Belzec.”
I think this might be the key. If it was a one day journey and he walked then this is an indication of a different camp.
However, I think this needs additional research on my part.
I’m going to post this as a thread on Skeptics Forum, see if anyone has anything. I’ll see if I can find anything else on line. I’ll check my on-line library, see if they have any books on Karski.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 6, 2016 @ 6:18 pm
No worries Jeff. I can recommend this AHF thread. The poster “wm” is very knowledgeable on Karski and is in the *he went to Izbica* camp. He doesn’t claim that JK ever admitted or agreed that he actually went to Izbica, although some poster named “Sunbury” pops up on page 3 to claim he did, but without citing a source.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=175505
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 12:26 am
Thanks, BROI.
I did find this:
http://www.hoover.org/research/jan-karski-freedom-fighter
The person who wrote that stated in 1985 Karski said Izbica, not Belzec.
I do question the source. The person who wrote that did so 15 years after Karski said it. It’s entirely possible their memory was contaminated by something they read later.
I’ve got some additional links that SM from Skeptics gave me, I’ll delve into them later during lunch.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 7:13 am
You gave a link to an article about Jan Karski. I have put up a new blog post with links to several articles that I have written about Jan Karski.
Comment by furtherglory — October 7, 2016 @ 7:57 am
I struggle to believe that Murdock could recall the name of an obscure Polish town he’d heard once 15 years earlier. Nor do I think Karski even mentioned Izbica in front of Murdock, because in 1985 Karski definitely still believed he went to Belzec. So, Murdock’s full of it.
But this paper certainly backs up the Izbica theory:
“In his oral reports during the war, in his memoirs, published in 1944 (Jan Karski, Story of a Secret State, Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1944) and in the statements to Lanzmann and, later, to Walter Laqueur (The Terrible Secret, New York: Henry Holt, 1998, p. 231), Karski says he visited the Belzec extermination camp. In Perpetrators, Victims, Bystanders: The Jewish Catastrophe (New York: Harper, 1993), Raul Hilberg has shown that his testimony does not fit with Belzec (see also R. Hilberg, Sources of Holocaust Research: An Analysis, Lanham [Maryland]: Ivan R Dee, 2001). In 1990, David Engel postulated that Karski had not been to Belzec, but to the camp at Belzyce (‘The Western Allies and the Holocaust’ [note 2], 374). It may be, however, that Karski went to the Belzec secondary camp at Izbica Lubelska, see E. Thomas Wood and Stanislaw M. Jankowski, Karski: How One Man Tried to Stop the Holocaust (New York: Wiley, 1994), which draws on research by Polish historian Józef Marszalek. As Jean-Louis Panné points out, ‘When [Karski] was able to visit Poland in 1993, he visited both camps and formally identified Izbica, between Lublin and Belzec, not far from Zamosc: Jean-Louis Panné, Jan Karski, le roman et l’histoire (Paris: Pascal Galodé, 2010), 20. In an interview filmed in 1995, Karski explained that he had certainly been to Izbica and not – as he had long believed – to Belzec: Diane Glazer Show (Los Angeles: Jewish Television Network, 1995), video consultable in the Jan Karski Papers, Hoover Institution Archives, Stanford University, box 31, file 11. In the Polish version of his memoirs, published in 1999, Karski has had Belzec replaced by Izbica, as Céline Gervais-Francelle points out in the preface to Jan Karski, mon témoignage devant le monde, Histoire d’un état clandestin [the French translation of Karski’s Story of a Secret State] (Paris: Robert Laffont, 2010), xx and 389, note 4.”
Rémy Besson, The Karski Report: A Voice with the Ring of Truth
http://etudesphotographiques.revues.org/3467
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 9:56 am
double post – could you please delete one FG?
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 9:57 am
I’m bouncing back and forth between here and Skeptics, I posted that link there with some reservation. I do question the 15 year gap between the lecture and the author’s recollection.
I’m going to keep looking around but much of what I see on-line is along the lines of what you and I posted. Jansson (Inconvenient Histories) absolutely believes that Karski visited the actual camp and this confirms that it was a transit camp. My objection to this is based upon other descriptions of the camp, along with Karski not mentioning various details (guard towers, the town itself) that I would think he would pick up on.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 10:46 am
Jeff…..this Karski guy s a bold face liar pure and simple.
No different than most of the HoloHuxsters that made up their horror Disneyland stories.
The problem with you and your fellow HoloHuxsters you don’t know when the jump of the HoloHoax train.
Just make sure the train doesn’t have lime in them…..LOL
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 7, 2016 @ 10:51 am
This is the link to the post I’ve put up:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27414&p=539538#p539538
I added your contribution to this, the information you just provided had new information I wanted to share.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 11:07 am
I think Murdock’s claim is patently rubbish, but seeing as Karski apparently agreed he visited Izbica whilst he was on the “Jewish TV Network” in 1995, you’ve got a bloody good source; one that’s virtually impossible for me to check.
I’ve looked at Jean-Louis Panné’s book cited by Besson and he does say what is claimed, but he cites no source for Karski’s 1993 visit to Belzec and Izbica and the proclamation he supposedly made about which one he went to in 1942:
“Lorsqu’en 1993, il eut l’occasion de revenir en Pologne, il se rendit sur les lieux des deux camps, et identifia formellement le camp d’Izbica, situé entre Lublin et Belzec, non loin de Zamosc.“
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 11:28 am
BROI:
“I think Murdock’s claim is patently rubbish, but seeing as Karski apparently agreed he visited Izbica whilst he was on the “Jewish TV Network” in 1995, you’ve got a bloody good source; one that’s virtually impossible for me to check.
I’ve looked at Jean-Louis Panné’s book cited by Besson and he does say what is claimed, but he cites no source for Karski’s 1993 visit to Belzec and Izbica and the proclamation he supposedly made about which one he went to in 1942:”
I’ll keep looking around but so far nothing has dissuaded from Karski visiting a different camp.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 11:40 am
“TLB exposing himself as a total BS. “Karski always maintained—from his first report to his final interview—that he had visited Belzec.” Ha. It was the fault of some book or other.” – Stat Mech
Awhhh. He still snivels over that photo Ryzard Dunin mislabelled 50yrs ago: “Lies, I tells you, lies! T’was ALL your doing. GrrrR!” LOL
Thanks to yours truly, Stat Mech now knows of ONE interview in which Karski APPARENTLY conceded he went to Izbica and not Belzec. But we have no quotes from this very important statement he allegedly made on a Jewish cable network. Nevertheless, expect to see HC lift the archival ref. from Besson and use it to bash Jansson’s paper in The Return of the Manifesto.
The following year [1996], Karski was again claiming he went to a “death camp”:
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 12:20 pm
I’d let that go, Rabbit. I gave you the link so you could see the other side of this conversation. I also wanted you to see that I gave you proper credit on the results of your research.
I’m actually somewhat surprised you don’t post on Skeptics. You post on HC,AHF and RODOH.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 12:57 pm
Jeff>>>>I’ll keep looking around but so far nothing has dissuaded from Karski visiting a different camp.
A different camp entirely, not Belzec or Izbica?
Don’t read too much into him mentioning alighting the train at Lublin in that 1996 video. In his book he doesn’t say how he got to Belzec; he just says he left Warsaw in the morning and arrived at Belzec shortly after midday, although he does say he returned to Warsaw by train so its fairly obvious that’s also how he arrived.
Incidentally.. re. other camps he visited.
I re-read my original edition of his book earlier [meaning I spent an hour skimming it cover to cover]. He says that when he received his mobilisation order shortly before the German invasion, he was posted to the barracks in Oswiecim, i.e. what would soon become KL Auschwitz, and talks of drinks and chinwags in “the Officers’ Club at Oswiecim”. They were taken by surprise when the Luftwaffe bombed the barracks at c.5:00am on 01.09.39 [no mention of him shaving at the time]; 100s of German tanks crossed the border at roughly the same time. “The barracks were almost completely in ruins and the railroad station had been levelled.” Shortly after noon they were ordered to leave Oswiecim for Krakow.
He claimed the inhabitants of Oswiecim shot at them. They were “traitors”; “Polish citizens of German descent, the Nazi Fifth Column”.
Later in the book he mentions KL Auschwitz and its Birkenau extension in passing, but doesn’t acknowledge it was the same complex he had been posted at when the war began.
He also talks about his secret assignment to visit the resistance in Soviet-occupied Lviv in late 1939. He travelled from Warsaw to a location near the border by train, spent a few days there and was smuggled across the border,; he returned to Warsaw in a similar fashion. This was obviously when he saw the Jewish work camp at Belzec which he hadn’t been ordered to observe and report on but did include a few paragraphs on it in his Feb 1940 report. There’s no mention of seeing the camp in his book, only that in this unnamed location near the border there were a lot of Jews attempting to flee from the Germans.
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 7, 2016 @ 1:27 pm
“A different camp entirely, not Belzec or Izbica?”
No, Izbica.
To be honest there’s a lot that doesn’t make sense….why would he travel to Belzec or Izbica from Warsaw? Treblinka was the camp Warsaw Jews were sent to, not South to Belzec or Izbica. If the Warsaw Jews wanted him to see a camp they could have sent him to Treblinka I or II.
“Don’t read too much into him mentioning alighting the train at Lublin in that 1996 video. In his book he doesn’t say how he got to Belzec; he just says he left Warsaw in the morning and arrived at Belzec shortly after midday, although he does say he returned to Warsaw by train so its fairly obvious that’s also how he arrived.”
I agree.
“Incidentally.. re. other camps he visited.
I re-read my original edition of his book earlier [meaning I spent an hour skimming it cover to cover]. He says that when he received his mobilisation order shortly before the German invasion, he was posted to the barracks in Oswiecim, i.e. what would soon become KL Auschwitz, and talks of drinks and chinwags in “the Officers’ Club at Oswiecim”. They were taken by surprise when the Luftwaffe bombed the barracks at c.5:00am on 9-1-1939 (typo, I fixed it) [no mention of him shaving at the time]; 100s of German tanks crossed the border at roughly the same time. “The barracks were almost completely in ruins and the railroad station had been levelled.” Shortly after noon they were ordered to leave Oswiecim for Krakow.
He claimed the inhabitants of Oswiecim shot at them. They were “traitors” “Polish citizens of German descent, the Nazi Fifth Column”.”
His book might be worth a read, I’m not big on first person accounts, I generally avoid memoirs.
“Later in the book he mentions KL Auschwitz and its Birkenau extension in passing, but doesn’t acknowledge it was the same complex he had been posted at when the war began.
He also talks about his secret assignment to visit the resistance in Soviet-occupied Lviv in late 1939. He travelled from Warsaw to a location near the border by train, spent a few days there and was smuggled across the border,; he returned to Warsaw in a similar fashion. This was obviously when he saw the Jewish work camp at Belzec which he hadn’t been ordered to observe and report on but did include a few paragraphs on it in his Feb 1940 report. There’s no mention of seeing the camp in his book, only that in this unnamed location near the border there were a lot of Jews attempting to flee from the Germans.”
I believe that the Germans were “encouraging” Jews to leave but Stalin didn’t want them.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 7, 2016 @ 2:12 pm
Jeff quote.
His book might be worth a read, I’m not big on first person accounts, I generally avoid memoirs.
Jeff I can understand why you don’t like first person accounts they are all liars most of them don’t even know what was going on in the camps or exaggerate what happened to them.
When they found out they could make a lot of money on their writings then they started writing but for the most part the Jews were big time liars.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — October 7, 2016 @ 2:18 pm
You wrote: “when he received his mobilisation order shortly before the German invasion, he was posted to the barracks in Oswiecim, i.e. what would soon become KL Auschwitz, and talks of drinks and chinwags in “the Officers’ Club at Oswiecim”.
The town of Auschwitz was originally founded by Germans in 1270. The town is now known by its Polish name, Oswiecim. The name of the town is pronounced something like this: Osh-VENCH-chim.
Comment by furtherglory — October 7, 2016 @ 3:14 pm
You wrote: “If the Warsaw Jews wanted him to see a camp they could have sent him to Treblinka I or II.” One of the Treblinka camps was a LABOR camp and the other was a transit camp. The labels I and II changed during the time that the camps were in operation. The labor camp was there first, but it eventually became known as Camp II.
Comment by furtherglory — October 7, 2016 @ 3:22 pm
You wrote: “This was obviously when he saw the Jewish work camp at Belzec which he hadn’t been ordered to observe and report on but did include a few paragraphs on it in his Feb 1940 report.”
Belzec was a tiny place that had no place to work. It was strictly a transit camp. The Memorial site is entirely covered by rocks, so that no one can dig down and find that there are no bones of dead bodies there.
Comment by furtherglory — October 7, 2016 @ 3:29 pm
“Belzec was a tiny place that had no place to work. It was strictly a transit camp.”
Sorry, it was a death camp.
Why?
Because no denier ever proved where any Jews were transited to.
“The Memorial site is entirely covered by rocks, so that no one can dig down and find that there are no bones of dead bodies there.”
Then why did archeological investigations in the late 90’s discover 33 mass graves?
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 3:24 pm
Jeff, really now, I think you really have to Define what a mass grave is. No one denies that there could have been people who died there and it could have been hundreds to a few thousand but not hundreds of thousands and more like they are saying so that completely blows your theory out of the water they have not proved that the hundreds of thousands of people were buried there your case is lost.
Do you have any idea how much space how much Ash there would be if there were a million or so people buried there?
For some reason you Holohuxsters have no clue on how big is big.
And one more thing if they really cared about finding out about the bodies don’t you think they would be digging it up like they did in the katyn forest murders. Why haven’t they done any digging out of the bodies? Do you not that the major writers of the Holohoax say that the bones were smashed with sticks and hammers did you know that?
Can you visualize smashing the bones of up to a million and half people with sticks and hammers? Impossible, but that’s what they said they used. Not a mechanical device.
Time to get real here.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 3:38 pm
“Jeff, really now, I think you really have to Define what a mass grave is. No one denies that there could have been people who died there and it could have been hundreds to a few thousand but not hundreds of thousands and more like they are saying so that completely blows your theory out of the water they have not proved that the hundreds of thousands of people were buried there your case is lost.”
Then prove where the Jews went. If this was a “transit camp” where did they go?
“Do you have any idea how much space how much Ash there would be if there were a million or so people buried there?”
No, but that’s irrelevant because over a million people didn’t die in Belzec. A high estimate is 600,000, lower estimate is 434,000.
Again, where do you come up with this stuff?
“For some reason you Holohuxsters have no clue on how big is big.”
???????? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
“And one more thing if they really cared about finding out about the bodies don’t you think they would be digging it up like they did in the katyn forest murders. Why haven’t they done any digging out of the bodies?”
Much of it deals with Jewish burial rituals. This makes it a political issue.
I don’t agree but what can you do?
“Do you not that the major writers of the Holohoax say that the bones were smashed with sticks and hammers did you know that?”
Yes I do. With enough slave labor it can be done.
“Can you visualize smashing the bones of up to a million and half people with sticks and hammers?”
Well, considering we are talking about Belzec I don’t know why you keep saying a million and a half.
“Impossible, but that’s what they said they used. Not a mechanical device.
Time to get real here.”
Yes. Prove these were transit camps by providing proof of where the Jews went.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 3:51 pm
When you say “Mass graves”, what kind of numbers are we talking per grave? I’m asking because if each one contains a lot of stiffs,then I think 33 mass graves,would go a lot further trying to prove the high holo numbers,as opposed to just one mass grave.
Comment by Tim — October 9, 2016 @ 4:01 pm
That’s unknown.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 4:03 pm
Read the Belzec book yourself by Carlos Mottogno it blows away the HoloHuxsters
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=9
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 4:46 pm
“Read the Belzec book yourself by Carlos Mottogno it blows away the HoloHuxsters”
Does it say anywhere in that book where the Jews went?
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 5:21 pm
Jeff the transit Camp theory your fighting is getting a little tiresome wouldn’t you say?
The Jews ended up somewhere and did not die in the camps that’s for, sure many survived.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 5:48 pm
“Jeff the transit Camp theory your fighting is getting a little tiresome wouldn’t you say?
The Jews ended up somewhere and did not die in the camps that’s for, sure many survived.”
Not the ARC. Or Chelmno.
I’m not getting tired of it, Jim. We know Jews were sent to those camps, we have no records of them going elsewhere.
So, that’s the big fly in the denier ointment. No answers, no proof, real history wins. Again.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 6:02 pm
Belzec for those who want the truth…
For official historiography it is now indisputable dogma that, from March
1942 onwards, three extermination camps were set up on Polish soil – at BeáĪec, at Treblinka, and at Sobibór where mass murder of Jews deported there
took place in homicidal gas chambers using the exhaust gases from diesel engines. However, this is neither the first nor the only version that circulated during the Second World War; it was the eventual result of a slow narrative
evolution, the main phases of which can be followed in the propaganda, in the
original historical version, and in the judicial proceedings of that time. Until
1946, there circulated several totally different versions of the extermination
methods allegedly used in those camps, which nonetheless received the blessings of the Polish authorities. With respect to the number of victims in these
camps, various absolutely ludicrous figures were reported: 3 million for Treblinka
now reduced to 870,000; some 2 million for Sobibór,now standing at
250,000; and 3 million for BeáĪec, against 600,000 at present.
How and why did the present ‘authorized’ version of official historiography come about? And what is its historical value? In the book Treblinka:
Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?
Jürgen Graf and I have exhaustively an-
swered those questions for the alleged extermination camp at Treblinka. The
present study undertakes the same task with respect to the alleged extermination camp at BeáĪec. In the discussion which follows, I shall obviously make
use of the results arrived at in my Treblinka book, without repeating the corresponding evidence each time, although some quotations become necessary.
I did not, on the other hand, think it necessary to reiterate the technical objections valid with respect to the use of diesel exhaust gases for homicidal
gassings; they apply for the Treblinka camp just as much as for Belzec.
Aside from this, I have been able to make use of a precious tool archeological research at the ‘scene of the crime’ – which unfortunately was not available at Treblinka and which, as we shall see, will furnish us witho conclusive criteria for testing the official theses.
Carlo Mattogno
Belzec
Holocaust or Hoax Jurgen Graf p.121
600,000 Jews are supposed to have been murdered in Belzec between March and December 1942. According to which “historian” you read, between one and five Jews survived the camp, so that the monstrous Nazi machine proved itself especially efficient at Belzec. Star witness for the mass murders at Belzec is naturally Kurt Gerstein, who, it will be remembered, reported 20 – 25 million gassing victims, 35 – 40 m high piles of shoes and underwear, and 28 – 32 gas chamber inmates per square metre. Apart from Gerstein, there is only one “witness” to the gas chamber, a Polish Jew named Rudolf Reder, who is supposed to be one of the one to five survivors of the camp. Reder, however, spoke of three million gassing victims at Belzec.
For decades, the murder weapon at Belzec was supposed to have been a Diesel motor. During the initial development phase of the Holocaust yarn, nevertheless, all sorts of imaginable variants on this tale were current, ranging from Dr. Stefan Szende’s submergible platforms to Jan Karski’s quicklime cars, and even an electrical oven mentioned by Abraham Silberschein. All these tales have since disappeared into the rubbish bin of history.
Enough said…
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 6:08 pm
Why don’t you rummage around in that book, see if it says something about where the Jews went.
Or has an explanation on why there were large mass graves found after the war.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 6:13 pm
Mass Graves with no bodies….ya right!
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 6:15 pm
“Mass Graves with no bodies….ya right!”
Then prove it wrong, Jim. Provide proof of where the Jews went from these camps.
Or, admit you can’t.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 6:33 pm
I can’t haven’t been able to go back in time.
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 8:12 pm
“I can’t haven’t been able to go back in time.”
So, good. You admit you have nothing. So, all this anti-Semitic rhetoric about “Jewish liars” and all the other “liars,” you have nothing better to offer. Only ridiculous denier bullshit, the silly obsession over steam and diamond pooping, masks the fact that deniers have nothing and will never have anything concrete to offer.
Good, I’m glad we got that out of the way.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 8:19 pm
Right down you alley…..so why I believe the Way I do..
Holocaust or Hoax Jurgen Graf p.149-51
A question to which revisionists would like a convincing answer: What is the explanation for the irrational behaviour of an entire people which apparently believes in an absurd (Holocaust) legend?
The Holocaust — with its gas chambers which constantly change location; its millions of victims who disappear without a trace into blue vapour at Auschwitz, Majdanek and Treblinka, after being murdered by Hitler’s SS butchers, either with Zyklon B insecticide or Diesel exhaust, not to mention mass shootings Babi Yar-style (where the victims also disappear without a trace) — is, and remains, first and foremost a unique proof of the monumental stupidity of our age. In the early 1980s — when the major absurdities of the Holocaust swindle had already been exploded, with the exception of a few details — most revisionist researchers thought it inconceivable that the legend could persist more than a few more years. Since then, more than 35 years have elapsed, and the Lie continues to drag out its existence, filthier and more luxuriant than ever! Cracks are appearing in the edifice of lies, doubts are appearing — here and there, in the press, in a few articles, in many private conversations — as to the truth of the Establishment version of the fate of the Jews under the Third Reich.
People mention the possibility of minor errors or exaggerations; but almost everyone continues to accept the story as basically correct. It is precisely this general acceptance which is the biggest puzzle to revisionists — and to any reasonable person
with a minimum knowledge of history. Really, how can anyone of normal intelligence, for example, view the room which is shown to millions of tourists on the grounds of the former camp of Auschwitz as the “only Nazi gas chamber remaining in original condition”, without immediately realizing that the physical capacity of the room — not to mention its immediate surroundings, for example, its proximity to the hospital located nearby — would make any mass execution using a highly dangerous poison gas impossible? The unspeakable atrocity stories spewed forth to visitors by officials of the Auschwitz Museum, deserve only ridicule. But the very opposite occurs: in these shrines dedicated to the Holocaust religion, people become intellectual cripples: awe-struck, their senses paralyzed, they gape at everything as if it were plausible, and solemnly swallow nonsensical fairy tales! Even the generation of Germans which lived through the war — i.e., the “generation of criminals”, those who supported the National Socialist system which is now slandered all over the world, who remained true to that system and fought for it to the bitter end, with unprecedented self-sacrifice and devotion of spirit — that generation no longer knows what to believe after half a century of filth and lies.
They confuse their personal firsthand experience, that which they saw and experienced themselves, with that which they think they should have seen or experienced (according to the official version of history). Faced with the accusations and ignorance of succeeding generations, the generation of the war years joins in with the chorus of self-incrimination or takes refuge in resigned silence. And yet, – if the gas chambers were technically impossible and the whole story is therefore a lie; – if no material evidence of the crime remains, since the Nazis “destroyed all traces of their crimes at the last moment”; – if millions of bodies simply disappeared into blue vapour, so that not a single body of a single gassing victim has ever been found; – if the official version of history is based on nothing but contradictory “eyewitness testimonies” of witnesses who were never subjected to cross-examination, and confessions extorted from “criminals”; – if a forensic report, including a reconstruction as is ordinary practice in an ordinary murder case, has never even been attempted; – if expert reports on the technical feasibility of the mass gassings are never performed by the courts, but only on behalf of private parties, and if no technical refutation of these reports can be produced. Then how is it then possible for the world to believe this series of grotesque hallucinations?
If you ask these questions, most people are either surprised or shocked. But some people, particularly, young people — who often react spontaneously and emotionally – immediately and spontaneously declare their conviction that the Holocaust is absurd. One hears remarks like the following: “How could I have believed such nonsense for all those years?” The revisionist may perhaps be pleased in the belief that he has won a new adherent. But in most cases, this is a great mistake. When the shock wears off — the shock which sets in following the discovery of a new truth, the new convert returns to his old environment, where it is almost impossible to find any information on the subject other than all-pervading Holocaust propaganda. The average person lacks the courage to deviate from his environment; the mass media, of course, are all around us. Upon the slightest expression of doubts, the inevitable reply will be that he has spoken with a horrid, lying Nazi, that he has heard a load of lies, and that he had better forget everything he heard. This is particularly true, unless the convert is a hero willing to jeopardize his social and professional position for historical truth. Since even the crudest lie can be obfuscated and explained away, the heretic falls away from his new belief and returns to the shrine of the incredible. Credo quia absurdum est. What at first seemed absurd — in comparison to reasonable information about the absurdity of the Holocaust religion — once again seems convincing. In a society in which propagandists control the media, those who stray from the fold are quick to permit themselves to be persuaded once again that the unanimous opinion (Vox Populi, Vox Dei) which confirmed the reality of the mass extermination of the Jews for over a half a century, bears incomparably more weight than the statements of a single “Nazi”.
This abandonment of the elementary duty to seek the truth can, however, have unexpectedly unpleasant results. Today, even re-educated Germans — despite their anti-fascist fanaticism — are regarded with mistrust, even hostility, by many people in all parts of the world.
The Zionists and their stooges are skilful at ensuring the perpetuation of this hostility, for example, through hundreds of films, largely produced by Jews, which depict German soldiers either as simple fools or sadistic beasts.
The passivity and cowardice of the majority of the German people today is their decisive contribution to the perpetuation endless hatred. All of German contemporary history has been turned into a sort of crime sheet by the Allied victors. The Germans swallow everything in complete passivity.
A person who refuses to defend himself, ought not to wonder if he is found guilty. He deserves no respect, and should expect none. Germans compete with each other in vomiting upon their own people and themselves at the same time. Do they really expect to gain any sympathy abroad in this way?
Let us nevertheless attempt to understand the reasons for this apparently illogical behaviour on the part of the German people.
Perhaps the main reason for it is the knowledge, or instinctive sense, that any critical discussion of the so-called Holocaust is dangerous; it can cost the victim his job, his position in society, and even destroy his family. In addition, many people don’t want to know much about the Holocaust, which is the principal accusation against the German people, since they intuitively feel that many things about it simply cannot be true. They are afraid to know whether the Holocaust is a pack of lies, or just a lie or two; anyone doubting the details of the official version of history runs the risk of being compelled to question the story as a whole.
And that is just what our contemporaries, set on their peace and quiet and comfort at any price, do not want.
On the other hand, it is not easy to live with a lie which one should long ago have recognized as such, and, at the same time, to act as if it were no lie at all. For example, how should the mother of a family, who knows to a certainty that the gas chamber yarn is a lie, answer a child who asks, eyes wide-open with wonder: “Mama, teacher told us that German soldiers gassed the Jews. Did Grandpa gas the Jews, too?” The best way to evade a question like that, which is complex and painful, is simply to know nothing. So the mother simply tells the over-curious child, “I don’t know, ask your teacher.”
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 8:34 pm
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Let’s take a look at something that caught my eye:
Jurgen Graf:
“People mention the possibility of minor errors or exaggerations; but almost everyone continues to accept the story as basically correct. It is precisely this general acceptance which is the biggest puzzle to revisionists — and to any reasonable person
with a minimum knowledge of history.”
Not you, right, Jim? After all, you don’t have a minimum knowledge of history.
I do. That’s why I find denial ridiculous.
Let’s take a look at the history Graf is talking about. Two major actions, two points in history.
The Summer of 1942, what was going on?
Well, after the failure of Operation Barbarossa, it took a great deal of effort for the Germans to hold the line and stop the major Soviet counterattack in December of 1941. Hitler prepared and then executed Operation Blau, the German assault into the Caucasus. The operational goal was to seize the oil fields in the Southern part of the USSR.
At the same time, Himmler ordered the expulsion of the Jews from the ghettos in the General Government. Himmler ordered this to be completed by December 31st, 1942. The only Jews he spared were those needed for war work and others involved in important manufacturing or farm work, plus their families.
So, where did these Jews go, the ones deported? Well, according to denier mythology, they were sent to the transit camps, the ARC, for dispersal. Unfortunately denier mythology can’t tell us where. It also doesn’t take into account the fact that there was a war going on, that there was nowhere to send these people to. Any suggestion that the Germans sent these Jews into the USSR is absurd.
So, where did they go?
Action two, the expulsion of the Hungarian Jews in the Spring and Summer of 1944. Over 400,000 of them sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Now, the German Empire was collapsing, no more East to send them to. Some were sent to other concentration camps, records exist. Some undoubtedly stayed in Birkenau or Monowitz, or possibly sent to Auschwitz satellite camps.
Where did the rest go, the ones not capable of working? What use did they have to the Germans? They were nothing more than a burden….and a hated burden at that. Does Graf expect me to believe that the Germans kept unproductive, despised Jews alive? Please. Tell me and show me where they went, with proof.
“Really, how can anyone of normal intelligence, for example, view the room which is shown to millions of tourists on the grounds of the former camp of Auschwitz as the “only Nazi gas chamber remaining in original condition”, without immediately realizing that the physical capacity of the room — not to mention its immediate surroundings, for example, its proximity to the hospital located nearby — would make any mass execution using a highly dangerous poison gas impossible?”
Graf forgets that this building was modified by the Germans into an air raid shelter. He also forgets that Zyclon B quickly disperses into the open with corresponding concentration levels dropping to non-lethal levels very quickly.
“The unspeakable atrocity stories spewed forth to visitors by officials of the Auschwitz Museum, deserve only ridicule.”
I thought that was denial.
“Even the generation of Germans which lived through the war — i.e., the “generation of criminals”, those who supported the National Socialist system which is now slandered all over the world, who remained true to that system and fought for it to the bitter end, with unprecedented self-sacrifice and devotion of spirit — that generation no longer knows what to believe after half a century of filth and lies.”
Filth and lies….😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
National Socialism is rightly vilified, along with the man who inflicted it upon mankind, Adolf Hitler.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 9:16 pm
Jeff just to let you know the two greatest man that ever lived on this Earth were Jesus Christ and then Hitler in my opinion.
Both of them did great things and both of them were brought down by the Jews.
That should tell you something
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 9, 2016 @ 9:31 pm
“Jeff just to let you know the two greatest man that ever lived on this Earth were Jesus Christ and then Hitler in my opinion.”
Odd choices. One believed in the brotherhood of man, love thy neighbor, in peace. The other was violent, exclusionary, believed that war was the proper state for men to dwell in.
“Both of them did great things”
Jesus didn’t believe in genocide and didn’t destroy a continent.
“and both of them were brought down by the Jews.
That should tell you something”
Jesus’s death was a requirement for him to be the savior of mankind.
Hitler started a war that led to his ruin. That had nothing to do with Jews.
You have some seriously fucked up beliefs.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 9, 2016 @ 9:51 pm
You wrote: “Hitler started a war that led to his ruin.”
I blogged about who started World War II here:
Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2016 @ 7:58 am
You wrote: “The other was violent, exclusionary, believed that war was the proper state for men to dwell in.”
Could you give us the evidence that Hitler was violent?
I also wrote this blog post about Hitler: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/what-was-hitler-like-before-the-jews-turned-him-into-the-most-hated-person-in-the-world/
Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2016 @ 8:05 am
Jeff the Jews were responsible for Jesus death. Before getting into the HoloHoax the Bible was my expertise….Some scriptures to prove my point.
The Plot to Kill Jesus
In context to last verse….
45 Therefore many of the Jews who had come to visit Mary, and had seen what Jesus did, believed in him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. 47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin.
“What are we accomplishing?” they asked. “Here is this man performing many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”
49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one. 53 So from that day on they plotted to take his life.
Matthew 12:14
But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.
Matthew 26:4
and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him.
Mark 3:6
Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus
Mark 14:1
[ Jesus Anointed at Bethany ] Now the Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were scheming to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him
John 7:1
[ Jesus Goes to the Festival of Tabernacles ] After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him
John 7:25
[ Division Over Who Jesus Is ] At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask, “Isn’t this the man they (Jews) are trying to kill?
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.
I
Acts 5:30
The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you (Jews) killed by hanging him on a cross.
1 Thessalonians 2:15
(Jews)…who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They (Jews) displease God and are hostile to everyone
Jews are the Synagogue of Satan mention in Revelation 2:9……3:9
Things will not bode so well for them.
Comment by jrizoli — October 10, 2016 @ 9:22 am
Jim, I’m not going to debate the Bible with you. I find it fascinating that you venerate two men so diametrically opposed to one another.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 10, 2016 @ 10:18 am
Jeff you just don’t want to admit that these two great men were killed by Jews and I showed you the information what the Bible says.
Sure they had two different ways of dealing with things but did it matter they both ended up in the same place so if Jesus was one of the greatest men that ever lived was the kindest most generous person that ever lived,and if you think Hitler was the worst of the worst, isn’t it funny they both ended up both being killed by the Jews.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 10, 2016 @ 10:25 am
Adolf Hitler allegedly killed himself in his bunker.
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/adolf-hitler/
Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2016 @ 11:00 am
When I say Hitler was killed by the Jews I mean they were the ones who came against him in full force to
accelerate his death which as the history shows ended with him taking his life.
Just like the Jews being responsible for Jesus death….the only difference the Jews used the Romans as their executioner.
They didn’t want to get their hands dirty, so they got someone else to do it.
The Jews were hypocritical fanatics who stopped all opposing voices.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — October 10, 2016 @ 11:09 am
“When I say Hitler was killed by the Jews I mean they were the ones who came against him in full force to
accelerate his death which as the history shows ended with him taking his life.”
That really makes no sense whatsoever.
Jim, Hitler invaded Poland, a primarily Catholic country that was anti-Semitic. Because of this, France (a Catholic country) and Great Britain (a Protestant country) declared war on Germany.
Hitler invaded the USSR (officially atheist) and declared war on the US (multi-denominational).
What do Jews have to do with any of that?
Comment by Jeff K. — October 10, 2016 @ 11:24 am
You wrote:”Hitler invaded Poland”
I wrote about Hitler’s invasion of Poland on this blog post:
Comment by furtherglory — October 10, 2016 @ 2:54 pm
“Jeff you just don’t want to admit that these two great men were killed by Jews and I showed you the information what the Bible says.”
Again, not going to debate the Bible with you….but Jesus had to die to redeem mankind. The Jews were the agent of that. No death, no salvation.
How did “Jews kill Hitler?”
Hitler shot himself while cowering in his bunker. Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin were not Jews.
“Sure they had two different ways of dealing with things but did it matter they both ended up in the same place so if Jesus was one of the greatest men that ever lived was the kindest most generous person that ever lived,and if you think Hitler was the worst of the worst, isn’t it funny they both ended up both being killed by the Jews.”
Actually the Romans executed Jesus after a trial. Hitler committed suicide after starting a war with the three most industrialized nations on earth.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 10, 2016 @ 11:18 am
I’m not getting in the middle of this or anything,it’s an observation. All though Hitler and Jesus are complete opposites,Hitlers afterlife is guaranteed through redemption. Ask for forgiveness,and Christ gives it. So if he confessed,he’s in like Flynn. No sin Is too big. Im a believer,but sometimes I question shit. Ted Bundy or Henry Lee Lucas confess to Christ,and they’re on easy street for eternity. That’s about as far as I’ll go with that. Like it says in the Book of John,”let he who is without sin……
Comment by Tim — October 11, 2016 @ 9:27 am
There were men who killed way more people then Hitler was ever accused of….the only difference….when you are accused of killing Jews there is NO redemption.
A Jew’s death is worth more to the HoloHuxsters who continue to keep the lies going to make saints of the Jews.
In life there always has to be good and evil and the Jews seem like the ones who decide. Despicable people who will get their just rewards.
If anything they would be the Devils. IMO.
Just to clarify….most Jews have no clue what is going on with the Holohoax legend they just passively go along with the story….so when I come against Jews I really don’t refer to them……
UNLESS they know what is really going on and back the lies up. If they do that then I throw them under the bus too.
The HoloHoax lie sadly benefits then all so knowingly or unknowingly they benefit. When the older HoloHuxsters give their stories they know what really happened but have convinced themselves that they were the victims. I guess like I’ve said before…When the legend become accepted as fact print the legend who cares who have been damaged by it.
Five thousand or more Germans have been convicted of war crimes for things that didn’t even happen that to me is a WAR crime in itself.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — October 11, 2016 @ 9:47 am
When I run across people that cry for the Jews,I enjoy telling them just how racist Jews really are. Pretty much hear the same shit out of all of them.
They pop up with,”Jews ain’t racist. They know what racism is. They were killed because of their race”. I tell them to spend a day in West Palm,Boca,Lauderdale or Miami . Their views will change. Then again they’re racist towards anyone who ain’t a Jew .
I figure the Jews wouldn’t be racist towards blacks. Look at all the shit that happened to them ( the Jews) in the 30’s. I figure that right there,would make them s bit empathetic towards the blacks. Clearly it don’t .
Comment by Tim — October 12, 2016 @ 9:41 am
You wrote: “When I run across people that cry for the Jews,I enjoy telling them just how racist Jews really are. Pretty much hear the same shit out of all of them.”
The Jews claim that they are not racists; they are a religion. Anyone can become a Jew, just by converting to the Jewish religion.
Comment by furtherglory — October 12, 2016 @ 10:34 am
Nope. Tell that to a Jew in south Florida . I’ve mentioned to Jews before,”you’re white”. They say,”no I’m not,I’m Jewish “. No where in that statement was I saying,white is a religion. I know there’s no way in hell,the person was stupid enough to think I was talking about religion.
I’m serious. Go to Jew paradise. Miami. Listen to how they talk,then tell me they ain’t racist. They way they talk about,blacks,Cubans,Haitians etc., they’d embarrass Dynamite Bob and Sam Bowers. I gotta disagree about them not being racist.
We’ve already seen their racism in action. Earl Krugel and his girlfriend Irv Ruben. Planning to blow up a mosque. It ain’t gonna get any more racist than that . I don’t care if the Jews and those people have been going at it since the dawn of time or not.
I’m guessing Irv Rubens fat ass found out the hard way,”you don’t wanna be a white Jew boy,locked up in L A County Jail,while waiting for a federal trial.
Clearly all the “brothers” and Mexicans locked up there,educated Irv on more than one occasion. He ended up bumping himself off. I say,”good”! One more racist piece of pig offal off the face of the planet. They probably reduced Irv down to a sniveling baby.
Then we all know about Earls Jew ass being educated by an AB at Phoenix FCI. I don’t much care for the ABs,but I’d buy that one a beer.
Comment by Tim — October 12, 2016 @ 1:51 pm
Everyone and their cousin asks,”where did the Jews go ( that almost sounds like a game along the lines of “Where’s Waldo).
What about the Jews Germany sent packing on the boats? They get to these other countries,and their turned away. Is there any record where they went,upon their return to Germany . Nothing for nothing,but if Germany was willing to send the Jews packing,I don’t see where wasting them was an option with them.
I know I sound like a broken record here,but I’m still in the middle . Something happened,but I don’t think it was to the degree,history said it did.
The one thing that bothers me,is when Germany started getting their ass kicked. They’re trying to keep their heads above water. If I’m losing a war,the last thing I’m worried about,is rounding up a bunch of people to kill. It don’t make sense. Seems to me,running the prisons,would just be taking away from the war effort.
They may have actually thought,”f–k the war,let’s just kill Jews . That kinda reminds me of that scene from “History of the World;Part One”. The scene where the 2 roman soldiers were stoned off their ass and the one roman soldier asks the other,”so what do you think about the fall of the Roman Empire ?” The other roman soldiers replies,”f–k it”.
That’s what I think of when I think about Germany more worried about the Jews ,instead of winning the war.
Myself,I’d want to win the war. By doing that,I could do whatever I wanted to the Jews,and nobody would say anything.
Comment by Tim — October 14, 2016 @ 10:16 am
Tim something happened but it was the extermination of millions of Jews……
Sure tens of thousands died, I don’t deny that, but to say that millions were killed in a planned extermination is ridiculous, and the way they said they were killed is even more ridiculous. They don’t even have the facts straight on what really did it. Using the methods that were said were used is just out of the question. I mean really now ZB gas a bug killer, …..the most poisonous gas at the time was phosgene….why not that one, quicker and more deadly than a bug killer.
Then there is the censoring and jailing those that don’t go along with the official Jewish story….how fair is that? Let the facts speak for themselves. But NO, they have to stop all those who want to tell a different story.
The truth is out there but not from the HoloHuxsters. They have an agenda that is not in harmony with the facts, but back up a Zionist Supremacist Cultist Ideology that the Jews are a superior people and we are their servants.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 14, 2016 @ 10:33 am
I’d figure it was around 800,000. I’ve heard that number tossed around,and I can accept it. It still don’t make sense,why they would put resources into the prisons,when they needed,”everything” for the war effort . I mean if I’m losing a war,I’m not gonna worry about killing people I don’t like.
Some kind of a holo happened. Just not on the scale,the Jews say it did. I’m thinking that the Jews took the low numbers of dead Jews,and bloated them up,to 6 mill. If that was the case,I’ll say I admire the hell outta the Jews. If that’s the case,that would be the scam of all time.
They’ve already got the sympathies of the world for the Jews that were killed. Who was gonna question numbers in the millions that they claim? The Jews had the axe from hell to grind with the nazis,due to the shit they went through in Germany,in the 30’s. I get a kick outta that. The Jews think they are the only ones,ever treated that way. Clearly,they never heard of,”Jim Crow”. So they inflate the number of dead Jews in the holo,just to get even with Germany . I’m not saying thats the reason the shit happened,it just seems like a plausible scenario.
One other thing that’s been bothering me. The pictures of the stiffs,that were supposedly gassed. I’ve seen pictures of stiffs stacked beside the buildings. Pictures of them in pit,yet the amount of bodies in these pics,don’t really add up to much.
I want to see truck loads of bodies. If they wanna claim that many dead Jews,then there’s gotta be pics around,showing those kind of numbers.
Are they gonna say the bodies piled up on side the building,were the ones they ran outta time with,so they couldn’t roast them? If they were gassing and cooking everyone,I don’t think they would push it. I’m sure they knew the allies were at their doorstep. So they probably said,”f–k this shit. We’re outta here.”
I’ve heard,”bone crushing machine” mentioned. That’s what I heard they did with the skeletons . The folks that designed and built the easy bake ovens,had cases put on them. What about the company that built bone crushing machines? I’ve never heard of them being hauled before the judge. Hey. 6 mill dead Jews,that’s a lot of bone crushing machines you’d have to press into service.
I’d like to see a pic of a bone crushing machine. I’m not talking about some BS display of one in a museum. I want to see the real McCoy . I wanna see bones going in one end and dust coming out the other. Hey,they don’t mind showing the end result of the ovens,so where are the pics of the bone crushing machines,and the results of their workings?
Comment by Tim — October 14, 2016 @ 8:57 pm
Tim there was no bone crushing machines even two of the Holohoax writers Hilberg and Arad said that they used Hammers and sticks to smash the bones of the bodies. Not believable or possible for all the bodies their talking about.
Another thing to consider have you ever seen a full-body of a dead person, the ones that were supposedly gas right when they got off the trains into the camps. These people would not have been Skin and Bones they would have been full flesh just like you or me but you never ever see full flesh bodies why is that if millions of them were killed when they got into the camps.
All Holohoax lies.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 14, 2016 @ 9:16 pm
Hammers and sticks? That I find even less believable. They go to all the trouble of coming up with what they deem to believe,is the perfect way to bump off Jews,yet they use sticks and stones to destroy the human skeletal structure? Now I know where the childhood limerick,”sticks and stones may break my bones”,came from.
I understand about the corpses being skin and bones. Makes sense that those weren’t the ones off the trains.
One thing that bothers me about all these bodies,I see in all these pictures,there’s no discoloration. There’s no bloated bodies.
The human body takes about 48 to 72 hours to start to decompose. None of the bodies on these pictures,look like they’ve been there that long. So if they were just killed,that means the prison staff couldn’t have got that far down the road.
So whatever allied army it was that rolled up on the prison,couldn’t put 2 and 2 together? These units that moved on the prisons,at the very least had a medic. I’m sure the medic could look at the bodies and deduce,these bodies haven’t been dead long. The killers couldn’t have gotten far. Go get them.
Another thing. The railroad company. I read about the DRG. It said it was Germany’s main rail company. It handled everything. It discussed what their purpose was during the war. The only thing they did as far as transferring people to prisons,was the POWs. It didn’t say anything about moving Jews around.
If they had to move that many Jews around to various prisons,they ain’t gonna use some mom and pop railway. They’re gonna need the big boys on that one. The logistics alone would be a nightmare. Yet it didn’t mention anywhere,that they moved Jews around.
From what I read,this whole rail company,was pretty much used for moving the military and military hardware around. They didn’t use it to move Jews .
Comment by Tim — October 15, 2016 @ 9:40 am
You wrote: “What about the Jews Germany sent packing on the boats? They get to these other countries,and their turned away. Is there any record where they went,upon their return to Germany.”
I wrote about this at
Comment by furtherglory — October 14, 2016 @ 12:35 pm
Okay. Where did the mass graves story come from. I’ll admit people can spin some yarns,but something like this,there’d have to be something concrete somewhere,to back up their assertion .
Just like with the historical accounting of the holo. I think something happened. I just don’t think it was on this grand of a scale. Something happened,so people got something to back their ass up. I just don’t think it’s as big,as they’d have the believe .
I just can’t accept one group having the logistics,to be able to eliminate another group.
I’m sorry,but 6 mill is a helluva reach for me. 700,000 to 900,000,even a million,I can accept. 6 mill sounds like something out of a nuclear holo movie.
The nazis may have been good at logistics,but ain’t no one that damn good. If they were able to drop 6 mill ,they should’ve been able to win the war hands down,if they could make 6 mill souls die
Comment by Tim — October 13, 2016 @ 4:26 pm
There were graves but no mass graves there wasn’t enough room in the camp for graves accommodating hundreds of thousands of bodies.
And if there were, where are the bodies…..just another HoloHoax wishful thinking yawn to put some teeth into their HoloHoax lies.
The problem i it doesn’t work.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — October 13, 2016 @ 4:35 pm
Here’s another reason why Murdock’s claim in 2000 that Karksi told him in 1985 that he went to Izbica is highly dubious:
In 1987 an interview with Karski by the Polish journalist Maciej Kozlowski was published in the July 1987 edition of Dissent magazine.
https://search.opinionarchives.com/Summary/Dissent/V34I3P326-1.htm
“M.K. How did you get into the Belzec camp?
J.K. A guide contacted me. He appeared to be a Jew, but of course I cannot say for sure. We did not introduce ourselves and we did not talk. We went together to Lublin, changed trains, and arrived in Belzec. It was the middle of October. The guide took me to a hardware shop. Several hours later a man arrived. He spoke perfect Polish and was very matter-of-fact. He had an Estonian guard’s uniform for me. I knew that the Germans never used Poles in the death camps. The extermination was to be kept secret. The man gave me precise instructions: “You will follow me. You must not speak to anyone. You speak neither Polish nor German. I will take you into the camp, but once inside you will be on your own. As far as I know, you want to see the camp. After a while, I will give you a sign, and we will leave together.”
We entered the camp without any trouble. My guide was well known there, and after showing some documents, we were allowed in. The camp was enclosed, partly with barbed wire, partly by the wall. On the right side I saw a railway sidetrack. I was standing close to the main gate through which the Jews were being taken out. For many years I could not understand it. I thought that Belzec was a transit camp. It was after the war that I learned that it was a death camp. During the trials of the German war criminals in the late 1940’s, some Polish railwaymen who co-operated with the underground were cross-examined as witnesses. They explained the scene I saw.
By German standards, Belzec was run very inefficiently. In fact at that time its commander, SS Captain Gottlieb Hering, was on trial before an SS court. The extermination in Belzec was done by exhaust gases from engines salvaged from Soviet tanks. It was a very ineffective way of killing. The engines over-heated, and, and the whole process of killing lasted for a long time. Sometimes one transport had not been completed by the time a new one arrived. In such cases the new transport was directed to Sobibor, where the death machine was running much better. I witnessed such a scene. The Jews were being transported from Belzec to Sobibor. I could not see the gas chambers; they were, as I learned later, deeper inside the camp, on the other side of the mass of people being directed into the cars.
I would like now to mention some events that were taking place at the same time but were fully revealed only after the war. In August 1942 a certain German officer, Kurt Gerstein, arrived in Belzec. He was to put things in order, that is, to instruct the inefficient commander as to the virtues of Cyklon B gas compared with exhaust gas. He fulfilled his duty, but he must have had some conscience still alive within him. Returning, he met a Swedish diplomat on the train and told him the whole story. He told about the exhaust gases, the collapsing tank engines, the whole story about the extermination of Jews in the Belzec camp. The Swede made a report and sent it to Stockholm. But the Swedish authorities, in an effort not to antagonize the still powerful Germans, kept this report secret. An entire year passed before the report reached London. It didn’t mention Gerstein, of course. The Polish government learned about the report and made an uproar. But by now it was 1944. The ‘Jewish question’ in occupied Poland was solved. After the war Gerstein was caught by the French. He made a detailed report, and committed suicide.
M.K. That means that the information you transmitted to the West was not complete, but even so it was horrible enough the people could not believe you?
J.K. I saw terrible things in Belzec. I wrote about them in my book, Story of a Secret State, (Boston, 1944). I broke down right there. My guide noticed that I was not behaving normally and he shouted over the Jewish crowd, ‘Folge mir, folge mir!’ We both left by the same route. I spent less than an hour in the camp. I was sick, vomiting blood. I saw terrible things. Unbelievable. You would not believe what I saw either! Even today, although over forty years have passed, I cannot forget the scenes I witnessed there. [pp.330-331]”
Sure, people can argue that hKarski went to Izbica, but those wanting to claim that he ADMITTED he went to Izbica have no proof to support that assertion.
I’m sure people will cite his appearance on this Jewish TV channel in 1995, but why did Besson not quote what Karski said if he really conceded he went [or may have went] to Izbica and not Belzec?
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 8, 2016 @ 10:18 am
According to Fredrick Toben Richard Krege and Jurgen Graf used GPR radar and bore samples to examine the purported burial areas at Treblinka. For years revisionists cited The Krege Report as forensic evidence that no bodies or parts of bodies in the hundreds of thousands were buried at Treblinka. Legend has it that Krege sent his report to a number of Holocaust court historians, but no one on either side of the issue has ever produced a copy for peer, or any other kind of review. For most scholars and amateur researchers The Krege Report exists as a legend only. When I asked Fredrick Toben why this is he explained that since he made his GPR study Richard Krege aquired a new family along with a new job he wanted to protect so decided to withhold circulation of his report. I believe, though, that he may have accompanied Toben to Iran on at least one ocassion where he delivered a lecture on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEA0bTD4B5w
Comment by who dares wings — September 25, 2016 @ 1:29 pm
The site was looked at with the ground radar around 2000 but even if they presented it today the Holohucksters wouldn’t accept it…. makes no difference what the information we revisions have they won’t accept it.
Yet they want us to believe that a few million people died and the Reinhard camps they can’t prove anything where the bodies remains are.
Poof…. Millions of bodies just disappeared.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 1:39 pm
Ah, yes, Krege’s imaginary report.
You would think something so earth shattering would have a widespread release. Alas, much internet research into the subject leads me to believe that Krege never wrote such a report.
What a pity.
The Black Wabbit says that certain “special interests” threatened Krege. What special interests, I wonder?
The World Association of Clowns? ISIS? Unfortunately, the Wabbit does not say.
However, one thing struck me as odd. Krege claims that the ground was undisturbed. I find that curious considering there was a camp there.
Well, it’s been what? Almost 20 years? I’m sure Krege will get around to it one day.
😂😂😂😂😂
Unless, of course, the World Association of Pomeranian owners gets to him first.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 2:20 pm
Jeff, Krege presented his report to revisionists; I’ve seen the video of him pulling his equipment over the ground so we know it happened and I can understand how he would be afraid to make it known worldwide because of how the Jews operate and how they come after you for doing things like that, just like they came after Leuchter. So for you to think this is a joke, it’s no joke; the Jews are vicious and they will do whatever they can to have you either lose your job or physically attack you if they can.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 3:13 pm
“Jeff Krege presented his report to revisionist”
No written report with the results exist, Jim.
“I’ve seen the video of him pulling his equipment over the ground”
That’s nice. What is the result of him doing this?
“so we know it happened and I can understand how he would be afraid to make it known worldwide”
Jim, he made a video and put it on-line. Why would he do this if he was afraid? Everyone knows what he did. Where is the report with the results?
“because of how the Jews operate and how they come after you for doing things like that just like they came after Leuchter.”
Krege ADVERTISED what he did, published a video ON-LINE and made a big deal that he found NOTHING. If so, him publishing the results doesn’t mean a damn thing at this point. If he was afraid then why put a video on-line and proclaim that he found nothing? But not follow it up?
“So for you to think this is a joke it’s no joke the Jews of vicious and they will do whatever they can to have you either lose your job or physically attack you if they can.”
Yeah, it’s a big joke.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 3:46 pm
Talking of big jokes – dear old Caroline Sturdy-Colls is going to publish her book in 2017. Its already got a pretentious-sounding title – “Finding Treblinka: Archaeological Investigations at Treblinka Extermination and Labour Camps.”
It seems that Caroline has already decided that there was an extermination camp there. So now, all we have to do, is wait with eager anticipation until next year, when she will hopefully provide the world with some kind of evidence to back up her assertion.
But don’t hold your breath, folks!
Comment by Talbot — September 25, 2016 @ 4:48 pm
You wrote: “Talking of big jokes – dear old Caroline Sturdy-Colls is going to publish her book in 2017.”
I have written several blog posts about Caroline-Sturdy-Colls, which you can read at
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/dr-caroline-sturdy-colls/
The first thing, that Sturdy-Coils should do, is to change her name.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 4:56 pm
“Talking of big jokes – dear old Caroline Sturdy-Colls is going to publish her book in 2017. Its already got a pretentious-sounding title – “Finding Treblinka: Archaeological Investigations at Treblinka Extermination and Labour Camps.”
What’s the complaint? At least she is publishing. Krege has sat on his ass for almost 20 years, promising earth-shattering revelations. The only thing we have so far is a random picture and a video of him looking like a dork pushing his GPR device.
“It seems that Caroline has already decided that there was an extermination camp there.”
What’s to decide? You, FG, Jim, Jett Rucker, etc. say it’s a transit camp…..but to where?
When I ask this no one has any answers.
“So now, all we have to do, is wait with eager anticipation until next year, when she will hopefully provide the world with some kind of evidence to back up her assertion.”
Well, provide evidence this is a “transit camp” and you might have something.
“But don’t hold your breath, folks!”
I won’t….waiting for Krege to publish.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 5:26 pm
Just keep dreaming cuz nobody’s buried there everyone knows that they just dragging this on so they can get as much mileage out of it as they can.
In regards to where did the Jews go maybe they went there in the first place
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 5:33 pm
“In regards to where did the Jews go maybe they went there in the first place”
That would be a brilliant observation if it made any sense.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 5:42 pm
Comment by Diane King — October 4, 2016 @ 7:57 am
The death 870,000 people in the camp is the real joke.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 5:08 pm
“The death 870,000 people in the camp is the real joke.”
What’s sad is your insistence on defending a deplorable genocidal regime.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 5:29 pm
Jeff, why do you insist on compiling the PLETHORA OF LIES to support a floundering myth!!!!
Comment by Diane King — October 4, 2016 @ 7:59 am
“Jeff, why do you insist on compiling the PLETHORA OF LIES to support a floundering myth!!!!”
Prove what I’m saying are lies, Diane. Start by proving where the Jews went if the Germans didn’t murder them.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 4, 2016 @ 8:07 am
You wrote: “I find that curious considering there was a camp there.”
There was no concentration camp at Treblinka; it was a transit camp. Jews did not live there; they were sent on to another camp soon after their arrival.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 4:30 pm
“There was no concentration camp at Treblinka; it was a transit camp. Jews did not live there; they were sent on to another camp soon after their arrival.”
Where?
BTW, there were two camps, I & II. I was a labor camp, II was the death camp.
So, did Krege fail to find evidence of two camps? Strange.
Was he sure that GPR was on while he was rolling it around? Maybe that’s why he hasn’t published his report, that is rather embarrassing.
😂
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 4:38 pm
Jeffrey K said:
The Black Wabbit says that certain “special interests” threatened Krege. What special interests, I wonder? The World Association of Clowns? ISIS? Unfortunately, the Wabbit does not say.
Where did I say that, Jeffrey?
Fredrick Töben was asked about Krege’s report in an interview with Carolyn Yeager Bomb a few years back. He said, IIRC, that Krege—after seeing what had happened to other revisionists—realised he didn’t want the grief that publishing non-anonymous revisionist work inevitably brings; I seem to recall Töben implied Krege was concerned about the probable effect publishing would have on his family and career.
This must be the interview:
http://carolynyeager.net/heretics-hour-were-86-jews-gassed-natzweiler-struthof-camp
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — September 26, 2016 @ 8:23 pm
Wight here, wabbit:
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.com/2014/01/kurt-franz-believe-me-i-am-innocent.html?m=1
BROI:
“The Black Rabbit of Inlé9 January 2014 at 00:00
Richard Krege declined to publish the results of his survey, as a special interest group was promising to ruin his professional and personal life if he did. Sort of what happened to Fred Leuchter.
We eagerly await the publishing of the results of Dr. Sturdy Colls’ surveys at Treblinka II. She was never going to be allowed to do any real digging there, the excuse being the Jewish law about not disturbing Jewish graveyards (this law only stands if the Jews were buried with full rite, which clearly isn’t the case here, see: Talmud: Oholoth 16 2-3; Baba Bathra 101b-102b; Nazir 64b-65b), but her non-invasive survey should show the exact location, shapes and depths of all graves at the relatively small site.”
What special interest group, wabbit?
Comment by Jeff K. — September 26, 2016 @ 9:52 pm
A group with a special interest in the Holocaust; similar to the Antipodean group who raised hell over Joel Hayward’s MA thesis.
http://www.joelhayward.com/myoverviewoftheaffair.htm
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — September 27, 2016 @ 2:38 pm
If you speak out against the Holocaust the Jews will be there very quickly to ruined your life.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 27, 2016 @ 3:12 pm
Preach on,Brother Jim. You found that out the hard way. It shows they don’t support freedom of thought or speech.
Comment by Tim — September 27, 2016 @ 4:59 pm
Exactly, Tim. They have the pretense and charade of supporting freedom of speech/expression, but in practicality, CENSORSHIP is their modus operandi. Jim Rizoli had been invited by Jeff K (on this discussion board) to participate on a SKEPTIC site – you know, one that questions EVERYTHING, or so they say. They question God in disparaging ways among a number of things except one. THEY LINE UP IN LOCK STEP on the holohoax. When you DARE challenge it, you are sanctioned, threatened and then expelled for some bogus ‘copyright’ infringement. Jim exchanged views on the Skeptic site, I joined and also so did Joe, Jim’s brother. We were expelled from this site. We were then invited to head to the International SKEPTIC site, expecting perhaps a more generous world view and were met with the same hostility, sanction and censorship. I joined Jim and again so did Joe. Then we were challenged for our identities, which required sending a copy of our redacted driver’s licenses. All three of us did that (I grudgingly). But Jim and I were expelled anyway and finally so was Joe.
When we ‘preach’ free speech, we mean an honest exchange of ideas, whatever one’s opinion. When the holohoax lobby speaks of ‘free speech’, they mean ONLY THAT POSITION THAT AGREES AND SUPPORTS THEIR POSITION. I say: “If there is not free speech FOR ALL, there is NO free speech AT ALL.”
Comment by Diane King — October 4, 2016 @ 8:22 am
BROI:
“A group with a special interest in the Holocaust; similar to the Antipodean group who raised hell over Joel Hayward’s MA thesis.”
Why can’t you just say “Jews?”
(BTW, I find the actions of the Jews towards Mr. Hayward despicable)
Krege never bothered to conceal what he was doing, he even made a video. Releasing a paper right now would hardly be a revelation, now would it? He’s said he found nothing, he’s been public about. He needs to release his results that show “nothing” or reveal that he did find something. Or, shut the hell up.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 27, 2016 @ 3:31 pm
Jeff, Krege found nothing isn’t that good enough for you, what is he going to write that he found nothing nothing.
He had no political agenda there he just did his job didn’t come up with anything and went on with his life but the Jews weren’t satisfied with that. The Jews are mad because he found nothing.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 27, 2016 @ 3:47 pm
“Jeff, Krege found nothing isn’t that good enough for you, what is he going to write that he found nothing nothing.”
Jim, we have a video of him pushing around a GPR device. He released one photo. He says he found nothing.
We don’t have his full results, we don’t have the full set of photos. We need all of these things so that his results can be viewed and interpreted.
“He had no political agenda there he just did his job didn’t come up with anything and went on with his life but the Jews weren’t satisfied with that. The Jews are mad because he found nothing.”
Then release everything so that others can see.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 27, 2016 @ 3:57 pm
Not until they release a real picture of homicidal gas chamber and the names of people who were killed in them.
And another good thing would be for them to show how it works. You would think after all these years they would have tried working the murder weapon to show that it could be done the way they say it was done.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 27, 2016 @ 4:31 pm
“Not until they release a real picture of homicidal gas chamber and the names of people who were killed in them.
And another good thing would be for them to show how it works. You would think after all these years they would have tried working the murder weapon to show that it could be done the way they say it was done.”
Jim, what does this have to do with Krege? He needs to release his results or admit he has nothing to release.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 27, 2016 @ 4:41 pm
Once again,I’m lost ( that’s not hard for me to do).
What is the story with the gas huts? I’ve heard,they were going incognito as showers,to,the were actually showers. They were in one building,but had to be moved to another,because the first building took to long to vent the gas . They really weren’t gas huts,but bomb shelters .
What’s the story here. It’s confusing as hell.
Comment by Tim — September 28, 2016 @ 11:01 am
https://web.archive.org/web/20110725110712/http://www.atheistparents.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14940&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
Comment by Jeff K. — September 27, 2016 @ 4:09 pm
Jeff K >>> Why can’t you just say “Jews?”
Coz I didn’t mean all of them.
Jeff K >>> (BTW, I find the actions of the Jews towards Mr. Hayward despicable)
It was bad, but his paper would have made very uncomfortable reading. I read it years ago, but I recall he gave numerous revisionist claims merit that they didn’t deserve; which he’s since admitted. So you can understand why it ground their gears that it received praise etc.
Jeff K >>> Krege never bothered to conceal what he was doing, he even made a video. Releasing a paper right now would hardly be a revelation, now would it? He’s said he found nothing, he’s been public about. He needs to release his results that show “nothing” or reveal that he did find something. Or, shut the hell up.
TBH, I thought he disappeared back in the early ’00s, but apparently he went to the 2006 Teheran conference and was sacked from his job on returning home and that’s what pushed him to give it up.
Click to access Newsletter%20601.pdf
So, basically, I was a bit uniformed on Krege’s story. You can find a summary of his spech in Teheran below; it’s contradictory to what CSC has claimed about her GPR work at Treblinka II. Although, so far she’s not published anything resembling a straight forward report on her GPR survery of the site either.
http://www.radioislam.org/conferences/#richard
M&G must known something about his work. Aren’t they supposed to have accompanied him when he mowed the grass at Treblinka? They mention in the 2004 edition of the Treblinka study that they were going to include the findings his work there but opted to leave it for another time.
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — September 28, 2016 @ 10:20 am
My goof, that is actually a summary of a presentation he gave at a Moscow conference in 2002, p.86 & 93:
https://archive.org/stream/BulletinDinformationDeLassociationSuisseVritJustice/vj#page/n87/mode/2up
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — September 28, 2016 @ 10:33 am
This is all it says from “Radio Islam”:
“Richard Krege (Australia):
Ground penetrating radar
at the site of the alleged “extermination camps”
Belzec and Treblinka, Poland.
Richard Krege, a young and brilliant Australian engineer, has twice visited Poland, the first time in October 1999, the second time (with Jürgen Graf) in August 2000. He will not only contribute a chapter to the forthcoming book about Treblinka co-authored with C. Mattogno and J. Graf, but also publish a more detailed study, the Krege Report, about his findings in the near future.
Summary: Belzec and Treblinka, both situated in Eastern Poland, allegedly were extermination camps exclusively set up for the killing of Jews. The Holocaust historians claim that 600.000 Jews were gassed at Belzec and 870.000 at Treblinka. (During the war, the eyewitnesses reported at least eight different killing methods for Belzec and ten for Treblinka. All of them but the gas have fallen into oblivion.) Neither Belzec nor Treblinka had any crematoria. According to the eye-witnesses, upon whose testimony the official version of the history of these camps is based, the bodies of the murdered Jews were first buried in huge mass graves, but later dug out and burnt on pyres. Thus, the entire story hinges on the existence of these mass graves. Engineer Krege has examined the site of these two camps, scanning the soil with a ground penetrating radar. This instrument is used to detect minerals, but also mass graves. It detects perturbations of the soil.
Krege first showed pictures taken by the ground radar machine on the site of a mass grave at Auschwitz-Birkenau. In summer and autumn 1942, more than 20.000 Auschwitz inmates succumbed to a murderous typhus epidemy. As the Birkenau crematoria had not yet been constructed by then, the bodies were buried in several mass graves which are clearly visible on air photographs. The pictures did indeed show evident perturbations of the soil. (Furthermore, it can be easily seen with the naked eye that the vegetation and the configuration of the soil are different from the adjacent areas where no graves were situated.)
The engineer then confronted these pictures with a dozen scans taken at Belzec and Treblinka, in the area where the mass graves were located according to the eyewitnesses. Non of these scans showed any perturbations of the earth. As the photographs of the same areas proved, the vegetation and the configuration of the soil are exactly the same as in the adjacent zones where no former mass graves are alleged.
The only possible conclusion is that the huge mass graves with 600.000 (Belzec) and 870.000 (Treblinka) corpses never existed and that the gigantic slaughter allegedly perpetrated at these two camps never took place.”
Yet there are no pictures of his slides on-line, except for one.
If he’s lost his job, what else does he have to lose?
Look, it strikes me as very fishy. Much fanfare over his GPR, he released a video and one slide.
It’s been a bit but from what I understand he found no ground disturbances yet there was a camp there so obviously the ground was disturbed.
There is a picture:
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/maps.html
The area is obviously disturbed, especially to the right.
We have the official Polish report with what they found after the war. The locals also dug into the ground looking for “Jew gold.”
Yet, somehow Krege found no soil disturbances? Come on, Rabbit. Give me some credit. I’m not some rube who doesn’t know anything about history and can be taken in by a video and a picture. After all, I’m not Jim or Joe Rizoli.😂
I kid Jim because he simply doesn’t know what he is actually trying to debunk.
Plus, big picture, where did these Jews go if this was a “transit camp?”
Please, no telegrams about 1,000 Jews being utilized by the Wehrmacht or tales of Jewish sisters who wound up in the Gulag. You and I both know a large percentage of those Jews “transited” through the ARC were women, children and the elderly, in other words, flat liabilities to any army attempting to operate in hostile territory. So, please, explain to me why the Wehrmacht would allow millions of useless civilians free access into active war zones or partisan-ridden areas they were trying to clear.
Oh, and while you are at it, please give me some idea where adequate transport for these Jews came from. Especially at the height of Operation Blau and the subsequent battle for Stalingrad, even Himmler had to wait for his “special transports” during the Summer and Fall of 1942. Some of those transports from the ghettos in the General Government took days to reach Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka….and some of these transports only had to go 60 miles to reach those camps. Imagine trying to find transport OUT of those camps to destinations inside the USSR.
I hope you aren’t going to try and sell me on “Rudenko’s Camps,” Hermie tried and failed miserably.
So many questions, so few answers.
I look forward to your reply.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 28, 2016 @ 11:23 am
Radio Islam ? I think it’s self explanatory. Is it run by the Islamic community? They’re enemies of the Jews right? How could we rely on them to be open minded and not biased?
Comment by Tim — September 28, 2016 @ 12:38 pm
Actually Tim they are just stating the true facts….
If you have a problem with the Muslims, which is understandable, I do to on some issues, just remember they are against the HoloHoax too.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day…and remember, the enemy of my enemy is our friend.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — September 28, 2016 @ 12:45 pm
I understand that. Makes perfect sense,however I’m wanting to know if the Jews kick and scream about radio Islam . I try to get my facts here from y’all. They seem pretty much seem on the level ( from both sides).
Radio Islam I’m sure tells facts. My question is,”how many times do they stretch them and to what extent?”
That’s why I wouldn’t listen to them. It would bring me to wrong conclusions.
Comment by Tim — September 29, 2016 @ 11:42 am
Tim the Jews and the Muslims are never going to agree so it really doesn’t make any difference on what’s being said.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 29, 2016 @ 11:58 am
That’s why I listen to you ,Jeff and FG to get my conclusions. Jews and the Islamic people have been going at it forever. It’s something personal that’s been going on with them,since the dawn of time. Thats why I say they’re more biased than anyone here. So it makes more since to look at the different views here
Comment by Tim — September 29, 2016 @ 12:23 pm
BROI:
“M&G must known something about his work. Aren’t they supposed to have accompanied him when he mowed the grass at Treblinka? They mention in the 2004 edition of the Treblinka study that they were going to include the findings his work there but opted to leave it for another time.”
I believe they did, I think they helped fund it.
Why haven’t they done anything with it in almost 20 years? They aren’t exactly shy about releasing material. You would think if it bolstered the whole “transit camp” theory they would rush to publish.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 28, 2016 @ 11:29 am
Good point about Caroline the ( Liar ) Colls….She finds basically NOTHING and it’s not even discussed.
And the bones she did find were in a Catholic cemetery…..Whoppie do! Along with that sharks tooth….and the terracotta tile with the star on it representing the company that made the tile, but for the HoloHuxsters it represents the Jewish star…LOL
Then as this writing she hasn’t published her info either but not for the same reasons why Krege didn’t.
Bottom line Ms. Caroline found nothing but made it a big deal she found nothing, but feels that finding nothing is something to the HoloHuxsters out there relying on her feeble testimony. There is NOTHING to bee seen in these camps PERIOD!
But the Holohuxster dreamers can dream all they want thinking that there is something there because there has to be to back up their lies.
So the proof is on the HoloHuxsters out there to prove there are hundreds of thousands of body remains there to be seen and guess what they haven’t been able to do so. Hasn’t 70 yrs been long enough time for them to do this…..I guess not. What they are doing is just stringing all the gullible Holohuxsters along to keep their hopes up to brace up their lies.
When the rumor becomes accepted as fact then I guess its time believe the lie.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — September 28, 2016 @ 12:22 pm
“Good point about Caroline the ( Liar ) Colls….She finds basically NOTHING and it’s not even discussed.”
Is she a liar because she found things you didn’t like?
“And the bones she did find were in a Catholic cemetery…..Whoppie do! Along with that sharks tooth….and the terracotta tile with the star on it representing the company that made the tile, but for the HoloHuxsters it represents the Jewish star…LOL
Then as this writing she hasn’t published her info either but not for the same reasons why Krege didn’t.”
She is going to publish, Talbot even said so. While Krege sits on his ass.
Oh, why haven’t Mattagono and Graf published his results? They publish crap all of the time. Have they been busy checking their e-mail? Updating their Facebook pages?
What, exactly, do THEY have to lose, Jim? They are rather famous “revisionist scholars.”
“Bottom line Ms. Caroline found nothing but made it a big deal she found nothing, but feels that finding nothing is something to the HoloHuxsters out there relying on her feeble testimony. There is NOTHING to bee seen in these camps PERIOD!”
Really? Nothing? Are you saying the camp didn’t exist? Surely Krege must have found evidence of a camp.
“But the Holohuxster dreamers can dream all they want thinking that there is something there because there has to be to back up their lies.
So the proof is on the HoloHuxsters out there to prove there are hundreds of thousands of body remains there to be seen and guess what they haven’t been able to do so. Hasn’t 70 yrs been long enough time for them to do this…..I guess not. What they are doing is just stringing all the gullible Holohuxsters along to keep their hopes up to brace up their lies.”
Yawn.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2761220/Gas-chambers-discovered-Sobibor-Holocaust-researchers-exact-location-building-Nazi-death-camp.html
http://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Belzec%20concentration%20camp&item_type=topic:
“Archeological studies
From late 1997 until early 1998, a thorough archaeological survey of the site was conducted by a team led by two Polish scientists including Andrzej Kola, director of the Underwater Archaeological Department at the University of Toruń, and Mieczysław Góra, senior curator of the Museum of Archaeology and Ethnography in Łódź (pl). The team identified the railway sidings and remains of a number of buildings. They also found 33 mass graves, the largest of which were 210 by 60 feet in diameter; and unearthed some 15,000 unburned bodies.[24]
The largest mass graves at the archaeological dig contained unburned human remains including parts and pieces of skulls with hair and skin attached, as well as entire bodies preserved in wax-fat transformation. The bottom layer of the graves consisted of human fat resembling black soap. It was up to one meter thick. One grave contained uncrushed human bones compressed into a rock formation.[24]”
http://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/the-darkest-truths/
“When the rumor becomes accepted as fact then I guess its time believe the lie.”
Yup, I’m sure that you’ll continue to believe that.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 28, 2016 @ 1:17 pm
Who’s Caroline Colls ? I’m guessing she has to do with the GPR argument thats transpired here.
Comment by Tim — September 28, 2016 @ 1:22 pm
You wrote: “Who’s Caroline Colls?”
I wrote about her on several blog posts:
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/dr-caroline-sturdy-colls/
Comment by furtherglory — September 28, 2016 @ 1:27 pm
She discovered “star of David ” tiles in the gas hut. My biggest question,”where did the Jews get the tiles?” If these were actually gas huts,how come none of the prison staff noticed them? Why would the prison staff want to calm prisoners that they want to gas? They Supposedly didn’t give a shit about them.
Why would they tile walls in one gas chamber have tile,yet the other ones concrete? What,no scratch marks on the tiles.
The concrete walls had scratch marks . I pointed out in one of those pictures,the Star of David scratched in the wall. That was hard to accept. It was at the bottom of the wall. If the Jews were packed like sardines,how could one get down low enough,to scratch the star in the wall?
I’ve said it before. Something happened over there. I don’t accept it was on a grand scale like the Jews claim. Shit happened everywhere. It was a war. Bad shit happens in a war.
When you get questionable shit like this,it makes it hard to actually figure out the truth.
Comment by Tim — September 28, 2016 @ 6:31 pm
Jeff….Really now…..15,000 bodies and that backs up a mass extermination? LOL
That would be just the normal death rates at this camp over a period of time.
How about the remains of 850,000 bodies….then well talk.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — September 28, 2016 @ 2:05 pm
“How about the remains of 850,000 bodies….then well talk.”
You first. Where did the Jews go?
Comment by Jeff K. — September 28, 2016 @ 2:08 pm
Where did the Jews go? I’ll play along……You feel they were killed so if that were so, they were buried where? And what proof do you have that 850,000 bodies can be accounted for? You only presented 15,000…..way off from the 850,000…..So far you lose the court battle.
So maybe you can tell me where did the other 835,000 bodies ended up? That would be the real question.
Maybe you can chew on that for a while….I’ll let you have your 850,000 death figure if you can show me where they were buried and the documentation showing it.
JR
Comment by Jim Rizoli — September 28, 2016 @ 2:26 pm
Let’s start with this, Jim:
https://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/victims/hoefle-telegram
That’s the Hoefle Telegram. It shows the amount of Jews transported to those camps. Your job is to tell me where those Jews went if they didn’t die.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 28, 2016 @ 2:33 pm
You wrote: “That’s the Hoefle Telegram. It shows the amount of Jews transported to those camps.”
I wrote about the Hoefle telegram on this blog post:
You should read both sides of history, not just the Jewish version of history
Comment by furtherglory — September 29, 2016 @ 9:07 am
“You wrote: “That’s the Hoefle Telegram. It shows the amount of Jews transported to those camps.”
“I wrote about the Hoefle telegram on this blog post:
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016/03/08/does-the-famous-hoefle-telegram-prove-the-holocaust/”
I don’t see what your post has to do with the Hoefle Telegram.
This gives the background for the Hoefle Telegram (the numbers match the Koehrer Report):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram
“You should read both sides of history, not just the Jewish version of history”
I’m afraid that makes no sense, there is no “Jewish version of history.”
Comment by Jeff K. — September 29, 2016 @ 9:46 am
I’ve asked this before . Nobody ever addressed it.
The Jew almanac. I’m gonna deduce it’s written by and for Jews . Us white boys probably,wouldn’t get shit out of it.
The almanac had pre and post war numbers of Jews worldwide. The numbers prior to and after the war,didn’t change much. What’s the skinny on that? How come no one ever brings that up?
Comment by Tim — September 29, 2016 @ 5:35 pm
Sorry for the delay in responding.
JK >>>> The area is obviously disturbed, especially to the right.
Yeah, Krege’s findings presented in Moscow [if accurately reported] are clearly nonsense. CSC recovered numerous structural remains in a 1m² trench dug in an area which contains many buried objects [see the GPR scan on p.180, and details of the trench on p.186 of her 2015 book]. Krege’s lawnmower didn’t pick up on those, nor the particular grave shown in CSC’s GPR scan [p. 154] or the others she states were found.
Even Kues wrote “it is clear that mass graves of considerable size must have existed at Treblinka” for the “somewhere in the low tens of thousands” of Jews who died en route to T2, and those who were “euthanised”, died in epidemics or were killed for disobeying orders etc. Mattogno probably says something similar in their enormous book.
So Krege’s ‘didn’t find nuffin’ claim is not looking good, and I might wager that we’ll not hear anymore about his 1999/2000 Treblinka survey. At least not from him.
JK >>>> Plus, big picture, where did these Jews go if this was a “transit camp?”
“Jews went where Jews are”, Jeff. Don’t you even Hannover! But, yeah; you list numerous factors that are immensely problematic for the TC theory. If the complete absence of evidence* wasn’t already bad enough.
* Of course I’m aware of the three letters and one message which refer to Sobibor as a “TC” and Karski’s life-long claim to have visited specifically Belzec and seeing Jews being put onto trains to be taken elsewhere. But they’re really not all that helpful to the TC cause.
Comment by The Black Rabbit of Inlé — October 1, 2016 @ 10:03 am
I’m getting a pretty good chuckle out of all this you’re talking about Mass Graves without any bodies in them….good job… LOL
JR
Comment by jrizoli — October 1, 2016 @ 10:13 am
“I’m getting a pretty good chuckle out of all this you’re talking about Mass Graves without any bodies in them….good job… LOL”
Shoosh, Jim. The adults are talking.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 1, 2016 @ 3:13 pm
BROI:
I’ll put a reply at the top of the comments, the indentation is getting pretty bad.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 1, 2016 @ 3:11 pm
What is the “T C Theory”?
Comment by Tim — October 3, 2016 @ 2:17 am
Transit camp theory.
Comment by Jeff K. — October 3, 2016 @ 10:02 am
They won’t let anyone excavate the site. Okay. What about ground penetrating radar? That’s a non destructive method. It would show if any stiffs are there .
Comment by Tim — September 25, 2016 @ 12:29 pm
If you notice the Jews do a very nice job and covering over their tracks and Treblinka is a perfect example of them erecting monuments in a place where you can’t do any digging or investigation. So that just shows you the depth that they will go to
to prevent people from finding out the truth. Of course they will give you all the stories that thousands and thousands of people are buried here and there yet when you dig in these places where you can dig you’ll find that there’s hardly any bodies associated with that digging so again the Jews do a great job and covering up the lies.
JR
CCFIILE.COM
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 11:55 am
You wrote: “…will give you all the stories that thousands and thousands of people are buried here and there yet when you dig in these places where you can dig you’ll find that there’s hardly any bodies associated with that digging so again the Jews do a great job and covering up the lies.”
Would the Germans have BURIED the bodies? I don’t think so. They burned the bodies. Burying bodies, without a coffin, in shallow ground, would have caused a big problem because the bodies would have come up later, during flooding from a heavy rain.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 12:01 pm
The camp was too small for bury all those bodies so the only way you could get rid of them would be to cremate them but then again they did not have the cremation capacity to do that if there were that many people that they are talking about being there in fact I don’t even have any Crematory.
So if you only way to get rid of the bodies would have been by cremation and if there were no crematories then how did they get rid of the bodies Without a Trace couldn’t happen.
You can’t burn bodies in open ditches down to ashes it’s impossible to do that or burning them on grates down to ashes that’s impossible also so they have their nonsense story on how it happened but they can’t prove it.
JR
Comment by jrizoli — September 25, 2016 @ 12:26 pm
“a camp in Poland where it is claimed, by Holocaust True Believers, that millions of Jews were killed.”
You are contradicting yourself with this statement, later the article itself says 870,000 to 925,000. This is not a million, much less “millions.”
As always (endlessly asked, never answered), if this was a transit camp, where were the Jews “transited?”
BTW, I saw what you said about Wolf. My apologies if I steered you in the wrong direction. Wolf mentioned he was on Facebook before, if this is the wrong Wolf that I found then I am at a standstill.
However, I can tell you that I’ve seen no obituaries with Wolf mentioned.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 11:32 am
You wrote: ““a camp in Poland where it is claimed, by Holocaust True Believers, that millions of Jews were killed.” You are contradicting yourself with this statement, later the article itself says 870,000 to 925,000. This is not a million, much less “millions.”
I wrote that True Believers claim that millions of Jews were killed [at Treblinka].
I did not write the statement that you quoted. I said that True Believers [like yourself] CLAIM …
I wrote this blog post in which I said that the Nazis claim that Treblinka was a transit camp: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/was-treblinka-really-a-transit-camp/
After visiting the Treblinka camp, I believe that it was a transit camp. After NOT visiting any camp, you believe that the Jews were KILLED, not sent into the Soviet Union.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 11:49 am
“I wrote that True Believers claim that millions of Jews were killed [at Treblinka].
I did not write the statement that you quoted. I said that True Believers [like yourself] CLAIM …”
I don’t claim that. No real historian claims that. You said “True Belivers claim that millions…..” This is not the case.
“Treblinka camp, I believe that it was a transit camp. After NOT visiting any camp, you believe that the Jews were KILLED, not sent into the Soviet Union.”
Transited…….WHERE? Where is the proof that the Jews went anywhere after entering the camp?
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 12:18 pm
The following quote is from this old blog post: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/was-treblinka-really-a-transit-camp/
Begin quote
Eric Hunt, who has been doing some excellent research which you can read on his website. He has discovered that famous Holocaust survivor Irene Zisblatt was originally sent to Treblinka before she was transferred to Auschwitz.
I have been re-reading Norman Finkelstein’s book, The Holocaust Industry, in which he mentions that his father was a survivor of the Warsaw ghetto and that he was a prisoner at Auschwitz.
End quote
Allegedly, the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were all sent to Treblinka where they were killed in gas chambers, except for Finkelestein’s father and Irene Zisblatt.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 12:32 pm
You wrote: “Wolf mentioned he was on Facebook before, if this is the wrong Wolf that I found then I am at a standstill.”
I find it hard to believe that Wolf, who is a year older than I am, put up a Facebook page all by himself. When I got on Facebook years ago, my daughter helped me because I don’t think that I would have been able to do this by myself. On the very day that my Facebook page went up, I attended a lecture given by David Irving. When I walked in, Irving greeted me by name. I was astounded. I asked him how he knew who I was, and he said he looked me up on Facebook after I sent in my request to attend his lecture.
Comment by furtherglory — September 25, 2016 @ 12:11 pm
“I find it hard to believe that Wolf, who is a year older than I am, put up a Facebook page all by himself.”
It’s entirely possible that he had help, however, Wolf seems comfortable and competent using technology.
Comment by Jeff K. — September 25, 2016 @ 12:22 pm