Scrapbookpages Blog

September 30, 2016

Had Mr. Irving won his case, the potential repercussions would have been catastrophic.

Filed under: Holocaust, movies — furtherglory @ 9:33 am

The title of my blog post today is the last sentence in a news article, about a new movie, which tells the story of David Irving’s lawsuit against Deborah Lipstadt: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/movies/denial-review-rachel-weisz-denial.html?_r=0

Irving lost the case because he made the mistake of arguing the case himself, instead of hiring a lawyer to represent him.

David Irving is like a walking encyclopedia: he knows the Holocaust backwards and forward, but he is getting on in years and his memory is not what it used to be. He should have hired a lawyer.

The actor who plays David Irving in a new movie

The actor who plays David Irving in a new movie

I think that the photo above gives a wrong impression of David Irving. On the two occasions, in which I have met David Irving in person, he wore a three piece suit, not a sweater. The actor, who is playing the part of Irving, does not resemble Irving at all. David Irving is much better looking than this actor; at least in his younger days, Irving was better looking than this actor.

The photo below shows what David Irving looked like the last time that I saw him, a few years ago.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

David Irving in 2013

The following quote is from the news article:

Begin quote

[The movie entitled] “Denial” begins with Mr. Irving loudly interrupting one of Ms. Lipstadt’s lectures at Emory University in Atlanta, where she teaches history, by offering $1,000 to anyone who can prove the Nazis gassed Jews at Auschwitz. It’s a tense moment for Ms. Lipstadt, who has vowed never to debate with anyone like Mr. Irving, a notorious gadfly who has built a lucrative career by claiming the Holocaust didn’t happen.

End quote

David Irving does not claim that “the Holocaust didn’t happen.” No, he claims that the Holocaust didn’t happen the way that the Jews claim that it did. I agree with everything that David Irving says about the Holocaust.

The news article continues with this quote:

Begin quote

Shortly after his visit, Mr. Irving brought a lawsuit in Britain against Ms. Lipstadt (Rachel Weisz), and her publisher, Penguin Books, for calling him a Holocaust denier and hurting his reputation as a historian. In his writings, Mr. Irving, an admirer of Hitler, insists there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz and that any deaths there were the results of illness and starvation.

But in Britain, where libel laws differ from those in the United States, the burden of proof is on the defendant. To Ms. Lipstadt’s chagrin, she and her legal team must focus on disproving Mr. Irving’s evidence.

Surely the creators could have found some compelling drama in the characters’ personal lives. But “Denial” rarely ventures outside its narrow journalistic parameters. Once the verdict is rendered, there is no judicial post-mortem, only an exhausted sigh of relief. As the world knows, the court ruled in Ms. Lipstadt’s favor.

End quote

In my humble opinion, I think that it is a crying shame that David Irving’s illustrious career ends this way. The Jews have won the case, but at what cost!

 

56 Comments »

  1. David Irving’s side of the story

    JR

    Comment by jrizoli — October 25, 2016 @ 11:22 am

  2. FG: David Irving is like a walking encyclopedia: he knows the Holocaust backwards and forward.

    Fact check: False. David Irving knows little about the holocaust and he admits it. He’s said he is not an expert on the holocaust and never was; he’s never studied it. Germar Rudolf says Irving is not a holocaust revisionist because he hasn’t read the literature. And by the way, FG, have you? You have read the pro-holocaust literature put out by the concentration camp committees, which you often cite. But have you read Butz, Faurisson, Rudolf, Mattogno, Graf, etc?

    FG: I agree with everything that David Irving says about the Holocaust.

    Fact check: David Irving says between 2,5 and 3 million Jews were murdered in gas chambers in the Reinhardt camps and shot by the Einsatzgruppen. Do you agree with that?

    Comment by Carolyn Yeager — October 1, 2016 @ 6:19 pm

    • Hey, Caroline. I wanted to show you some of the fun things I found on the Internet:

      Odd, did not know Auschwitz opened in 1938.

      I also did not know Hitler was gay.

      http://www.whale.to/b/hallet_b.html

      Or Goering. Or Heydrich for that matter.

      http://www.whale.to/b/goering_h.html

      “Hitler was a sexual deviant who would do anything to hide his sexual proclivities from the public. This made him a puppet to any foreign country or ideology with the knowledge on him. This is known as “the wood” on a person and anyone with ‘the wood’ has control over that person. ……Hans Mend: “In 1915 we were billeted in a brewery and slept in the hay. Hitler was bedded down at night with Schmidtl, his male whore. We heard a rustling in the hay. Then someone switched on his electric flashlight and growled ‘look at those two faggots’…..Many of the highest-placed leaders in the Nazi party, including Hitler, Roehm, Forster, von Schirach and almost all of his bodyguards were gay. Hitler surrounded himself with homosexuals and even retrieved Roehm from Bolivia, making him Deputy Fuhrer. This knowledge enabled outside countries like Britain and ideologies like the Freemasons lo control Hitler, his high command and his bodyguards. Hitler and his band of merry bandits became puppets with wooden strings. In this way, any foreign society can be destroyed with a leader hiding their sexuality. Hitler, Roehm, Forster and von Schirach took part in destroying their own societies while enjoying the power it gave them. Hitler was a double agent prime minister. He worked for a foreign country (Britain) and a foreign ideology (the Freemasons). The formula proved so effective it is still used today, in politics and the media, especially with TV personalities, radio announcers, prime ministers and presidents, both male and female. Hitler was a British Agent by Greg Hallett p.65”

      http://www.whale.to/b/myth1.html

      This is from a denier website, so, naturally, it must be true, right, Caroline?

      Comment by Jeff K. — October 1, 2016 @ 7:45 pm

      • Okay. Leave the “Masons” out of this. My wife’s father was a Freemason. I heard Hitler and Eva didn’t sleep together. Not because he was or wasn’t gay,but he had to keep up appearances,that Germany was his “woman”. For lack of a better way to put it.

        The German public sees only Hiter. Therefore they know there’s only his devotion to Germany . What’s up with that?

        Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 8:55 am

        • Tim, Whale is a joke….but I enjoy mocking Caroline with it.
          Naturally she won’t respond because she is a coward.

          Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 10:41 am

          • I make no bones about being ignorant on this subject. As I’ve said before,”I get both sides of the story here. Conflicting as they are,I tend to take the most plausible answer ( which is not easy to figure at times),and go with it.

            I don’t know. Maybe she suffers from,lack of testicles syndrome. I don’t really give a shit.

            She rolls up in here like she pays the bills. Attempts a coup,and insults FGs gender. That shit don’t fly with me.

            She claims to know FG. If she did,she’d know FG “gave birth”, to a son in Germany . She’d also know,FG is of the female persuasion . Don’t have to be Einstein to figure that out.

            She insults the shit outta FG,by saying she don’t know how to run her site.

            Listen up ,”Carl”. “Pull your bottom lip over the top of your head,and swallow. Hope she can figure that out.

            Like I said Jeff, I’ve still a lot to learn here. So the next time Carl starts foaming at the mouth,this is one everybody else here,can give her.

            This is from Issac Asimov. “For those of you who think you know everything,you’re really annoying those of us who do.”

            Give that one to Carl next time she (or possibly he) starts talking shit.

            Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 11:16 am

    • When a comment is posted as a provocation only, and has nothing to do with the blog post that is being commented on, it should be rejected. Any responsible blogger would agree. Unless his/her purpose is to rack up as many comments as possible, not caring what they contain.

      Comment by Carolyn Yeager — October 1, 2016 @ 8:04 pm

      • “When a comment is posted as a provocation only, and has nothing to do with the blog post that is being commented on, it should be rejected. Any responsible blogger would agree. Unless his/her purpose is to rack up as many comments as possible, not caring what they contain.”

        What is your purpose then, Carolyn? Aren’t you being “provocative?”

        But, I don’t expect an answer. You are, after all, a coward.
        What would Hitler think?

        Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 10:39 am

        • Jeff. I’ve asked this question before. I read something on University of South Florida website ( I hate going to university teachers on anything,because the majority are biased).

          They were talking about when they first started bumping Jews off. They said the hit squads,bumped off around 1.5 million Jews . That conflicts the number of Jews , they now say were killed.

          At any rate they stopped with the hit squads. Himmler said it was not as effective as the gas houses.

          If he said,” it was not as effective as gassing”, I’m gonna deduce,the gas huts were already in operation. Why bother racking up that many hits?

          Wether a persons admires or detests the nazi war machine, ya gotta admit,they had their shit together. I’ll admit towards the end they were losing big time,but they still had structure.

          Even towards the end,the men still respected their officers. Their officers still used common sense. Our shake n bakes in Nam were worthless . They got more of their own men killed.

          At any rate,the nazis being the well oiled and running machine they were,why are they going to try shit in the “real world”, unless it passed the test phase?

          Himmler wanted the shootings to stop,because it was taxing as hell on the assassins. It was too personal.

          If the nazis were such cold blooded killers,why would they be affected negatively by shooting all those folks? It kinda shoots that to theory all to shit.

          While we’re talking about them,how come none of the Jew nazi hunters never go after the low level people? If all these shootings were going on,why not put a case on the guys pulling the triggers? If they did all these killings,would they not be just as guilty?

          Mass graves have been a big topic here lately. It only deals with the ones who were gassed. What about the ones that were supposedly gunned down? I understand these hit men were a traveling roadshow. It was probably small kills they had,but I imagine they probably had big numbers now and then.

          Why doesn’t anyone bring up those mass graves. I know it’s probably gonna pale in comparison to the big picture,but I figure someone would recognize it. Instead they carry on about the gas huts.

          One other thing. I watched Valkyrie last night. The whole time in the movie,Tom Cruise and his conspirators only bought up the Jews a couple times. It was mostly about saving Germany and the lives of Germans

          What about that? What was the real reason for Valkyrie ? Hitler was a smart man. He knew how to get shit done,but towards the end,he was dropping the ball. So what was the reason for that whole shindig ?

          Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

          • You wrote: “At any rate they stopped with the hit squads. Himmler said it was not as effective as the gas houses.”

            Did Himmler really say that there were “gas houses”? Can you give me a source for this?

            Comment by furtherglory — October 2, 2016 @ 12:58 pm

            • That’s why I gave my reference material was from the Universiry of South Florida. Take it up with them. This is not verbatim,but they said he found out that was a much more effective means of killing

              My question was,if history wants to portray these men as having ice water running through their veins,why would Himmler say the killings were to personal for these men.

              Look at Richard Kuklinski. He was a contract killer for New Yorks Five Famalies. Son of a Bitch would kill,and go on like it was just a job.

              The soldiers on the other hand,clearly knew the value of human life,if these mass shootings bothered them that bad. So once again I’m trying to figure out how they carry out these large scale murders,that history,”said” they did.

              These are the same people history wants be to accept,bashed little babies heads against the rail cars. That’s a bit of a reach for me.

              Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 1:36 pm

          • “Jeff. I’ve asked this question before. I read something on University of South Florida website ( I hate going to university teachers on anything,because the majority are biased).

            They were talking about when they first started bumping Jews off. They said the hit squads,bumped off around 1.5 million Jews . That conflicts the number of Jews , they now say were killed.”

            How does this conflict with the numbers killed, Tim?

            “At any rate they stopped with the hit squads. Himmler said it was not as effective as the gas houses.

            If he said,” it was not as effective as gassing”, I’m gonna deduce,the gas huts were already in operation. Why bother racking up that many hits?”

            The Einsatsgruppen started by mass shooting and later using some gas vans in the USSR. But there were no actual death camps that used mass gassing until Chelmno in December of 1941.

            “At any rate,the nazis being the well oiled and running machine they were,why are they going to try shit in the “real world”, unless it passed the test phase?”

            That’s a stereotype, Tim. The reality is that they also had to try out methods to see what worked best.

            “Himmler wanted the shootings to stop,because it was taxing as hell on the assassins. It was too personal.

            If the nazis were such cold blooded killers,why would they be affected negatively by shooting all those folks? It kinda shoots that to theory all to shit.”

            Again, that’s a stereotype. There were those killers that accepted the need to do it as a duty, there were killers that were outright sociopaths that enjoyed the killing, there were those that simply could not do it regardless, etc.
            You can’t think in terms of “all SS members were cold blooded killers.” They were just as varied as anyone.

            “While we’re talking about them,how come none of the Jew nazi hunters never go after the low level people? If all these shootings were going on,why not put a case on the guys pulling the triggers? If they did all these killings,would they not be just as guilty?”

            Now most of them are dead.
            There were trials after the war:
            http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/einsatztrial.html

            http://m.dw.com/en/landmark-trial-pushed-germany-to-tackle-nazi-past/a-3349537

            “Mass graves have been a big topic here lately. It only deals with the ones who were gassed. What about the ones that were supposedly gunned down? I understand these hit men were a traveling roadshow. It was probably small kills they had,but I imagine they probably had big numbers now and then.”

            Many of those mass graves were destroyed by Paul Blobel in an attempt to cover up Nazi crimes but the Soviets and Poles (among others) have found graves since the end of the war.

            “Why doesn’t anyone bring up those mass graves. I know it’s probably gonna pale in comparison to the big picture,but I figure someone would recognize it. Instead they carry on about the gas huts.”

            See above.

            “One other thing. I watched Valkyrie last night. The whole time in the movie,Tom Cruise and his conspirators only bought up the Jews a couple times. It was mostly about saving Germany and the lives of Germans”

            Those conspirators were mainly concerned with killing Hitler to get him out of the way. They thought it might end the war quicker. Stauffenberg (Cruise’s character) did consider the treatment of the Jews as one of the reasons to get rid of Hitler, as did others.

            Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 2:57 pm

            • The reason I say,1.5 is conflicting,is because the changes so much. I’ve seen it change 4 times since I’ve been reading this site.

              I’ve seen where it seems like historians,rarely agree with each other,but how can the numbers fluctuate so much? I don’t understand why they can’t get a ballpark figure at least.

              American deaths in wars.
              Civil war600,000 and change
              WW1 116,000 plus
              WW 2 405,000 plus

              Those numbers probably are plus or minus a certain amount,but the number of dead Jews,and how the numbers change,are just a bit too extreme. It’s hard to look at other aspects of this subject. I’m still hung up on the numbers.

              Hey I agree a 100%. Some of the guys on the hit squad,loved their job. I served with one guy,that would’ve made the greats ( Bundy,the Ripper,Dahmer) look like amateurs. He got this one VC right in the head. Looked like someon busted his head with a crowbar. This idiot was having multiple orgasms over it. As for me,it was one of the times I got sick. Contrary to what people say,you’ll never get acclimated to it.

              The guys that did as soldiers,because it was their job,probably didn’t agree with it. I’ve never shot unarmed people before,so I can’t really speak to that.

              I know as a soldier I was told to kill the other guy. We didn’t agree and he was trying to kill me ( I watched something back in the 80’s about the NVA soldiers. Come to find out,they were just as scared as my dumbass was). However on the other hand,I’ve never felt good about the 3 lives I know I took . Looking at it from the point of view of being another human,I don’t feel good about it.

              From where I stand,I’m sure a lot of the Germans on the hit squads,felt the same way. The only difference,they shot unarmed people.

              I’m still not buying into them bashing the babies heads into the side of the rail cars,when they were unloaded . I know of mans inhumanity towards his fellow man,but some of these stories seem like they were written by one of the script writers from the movie “Hellraiser”. They would make for a very tasteless April Fools joke.

              Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 4:17 pm

              • “The reason I say,1.5 is conflicting,is because the changes so much. I’ve seen it change 4 times since I’ve been reading this site.”

                Tim, this is all you need to know:

                1.3 million deaths attributed to the Einsatsgruppen (perhaps up to 1.5 million)
                2.5 million deaths attributed to the various gas chambers, gas vans (perhaps up to 3 million)

                That makes about 3.8 million what I call “direct action” deaths.
                Now, where you said “plus change” I included a little leeway depending on the particular researcher. That’s about 700,000 people, probably at the high end. If you add these people you get 4.5 million.
                Now you have to look at deaths by disease, starvation, maltreatment, etc. This is where you get a deviation.
                If you look at authors like Reitlinger or Hilberg they look at a low end. Reitlinger thought about 4.8 million, Hilberg thought about 5.1 million.
                Others go a little higher, Timothy Snyder believes about 5.5 million.
                Stop getting side tracked by denier goofiness, Tim. Deniers shriek “6 million, 6 million!!!!” They dwell on the “4 million” at Auschwitz and neglect to tell you that researchers like Reitlinger and Hilberg never believed that number. They also neglect to tell you that the number the Soviets arrived at never meant Jews exclusively.
                My advice is to check out real books on the matter. That and real websites.

                Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 4:37 pm

                • You wrote: “My advice is to check out real books on the matter. That and real websites.”

                  Can you recommend a real website and a few real books? What is necessary for a book or a website to qualify as “real”?

                  I am guessing that my website and my blog are not “real”.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 2, 2016 @ 4:41 pm

                • “Can you recommend a real website and a few real books. What is necessary for a book or a website to qualify as “real”?”

                  For Tim I’d recommend starting with Rees’ book on Auschwitz. Then Saul Friedlander’s “The Years of Extermination.”

                  Websites:
                  http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/

                  Here is a list:
                  https://www.google.com/search?q=holocaust+websites&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

                  “Real” as in actual history, not untested denier stuff about transit camps.

                  Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 4:54 pm

                • Thats what I meant about historians rarely agreeing with each other. Even history beyond the holo. Historians still argue over wether we knew Yamamoto and his ships were crawling up our ass or not.

                  I think some of the problem is shit like the History Channel ( even though lately history to them is a couple of guys going cross country,digging through junkyards).

                  History Channel will still pretty much present their version of history.

                  I still miss the show Mr. Spock did back in the 70’s. “In Search Of”. They had a disclaimer at the beginning of the show. “The producers purpose is to present an explanation,but not the only one”. History shows don’t do that shit no more.

                  Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 5:04 pm

                • You wrote:”I’d recommend starting with Rees’ book on Auschwitz.”

                  I have read Rees’s book on Auschwitz and I DON’T recommend it.

                  I have written two blog posts in which Lawrence Rees is mentioned.

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/laurence-rees/

                  My impression of Lawrence Rees is that he wants to make money and the Holocaust is a good way to make money.

                  I have not made one penny off my website, nor off my blog. My main motive is to educate people in what I have learned through my travels and my research.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 2, 2016 @ 5:10 pm

                • “You wrote:”I’d recommend starting with Rees’ book on Auschwitz.”

                  “I have read Rees’s book on Auschwitz and I DON’T recommend it.”

                  Because it says things you don’t agree with?

                  “I have written two blog posts in which Lawrence Rees is mentioned.

                  https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/laurence-rees/

                  My impression of Lawrence Rees is that he wants to make money and the Holocaust is a good way to make money.”

                  Your impression is incorrect. Rees is a well known historian and documentary maker. His “World War II Behind Closed Doors” is excellent. He’s only written and produced about the Holocaust once. How is that trying to make money off it?

                  “I have not made one penny off my website, nor off my blog. My main motive is to educate people in what I have learned through my travels and my research.”

                  OK. I post replies here. I also post replies and write posts for the Skeptics Forum. I haven’t made any money either.

                  One of the things you wrote stuck out to me:

                  “She learns that her sister was using the name Edith Schwartz when she was at Bergen-Belsen and that she died on June 2, 1945. The Bergen-Belsen camp was turned over to the British on April 15, 1945 so this means that Edith died while in the care of the British.”

                  Is the implication that British care killed her?

                  Or, more realistically, that she was so worn out by what happened to her in the camps she died anyway, making her death the responsibility of the SS?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 5:22 pm

                • I went to one site you sent me. PHDN. I don’t like them. I’ve told plenty of people before,that’s why I like this site. FG allows both sides to be presented here . I’ve asked questions and gotten answers from both sides. I may disagree or agree with what one side or another says.

                  My best evidence on that are these 2 examples ( they’re the only ones I can come up with off top of my head right now ). You ( I think it was you) put up a picture for me one time. The person that took the pocture was standing at a door. The door was cracked open a tad,so the person would not be seen. That there made me think the person was actually taking happy snaps, of Jews being shot . I can’t be a 100%,because it was snapped at a distance and the picture was grainy . I wasn’t there,so I can’t be a 100% sure. So that led me the accept some shit was going on with certain aspects of the holo.

                  I read an article that FG ( I think it was her) posted in here. In the article it mentioned the nazis pretty much had shit down to an art form on killing Jews that were coming off the rails . It said they could kill like a 1,000 Jews an hour. They would off load,sort,and send them to the gas house in

                  an hour or less. I was born during the day,but not yesterday. That claim led me to think,not everything is truthful with this topic.

                  Since I’m in the middle,I agree or disagree with shit I read on the subject.

                  I’ve already got a bad taste in my mouth,for the link you sent me to that site .

                  They have a “Q&A” section on their site. One person asked what’s revisionism. The answer contained,”it’s where a historian will revise his ,”opinion”,based on new evidence”. Clearly,it seems like these people have a problem with “freedom” of thought. Well they don’t seem to respect an individual’s opinion.

                  They proved what snot nosed,”if you don’t agree with me,you’re wrong”pieces of shit they are next . They said,”deniers call themselves revisionist,because they think it makes them sound respectable”. WTF is that ! That’s condescending as hell,that’s what. There was lil shit back in high school. Obnoxious,nerdy lil shit. He was constantly getting his ass kicked,because of his “I’m better than everybody” attitude. If you’re not in line with this sites opinion,then clearly you’re not a human being. Given the opinion of the author of that site,I’d say he got his ass kicked a bit in school.

                  By the time I went to Nam,it seemed like everyone was against the war. They’d dog the shit outta you,if you didn’t accept,their opinion. I had a protestor get in my face one time . I beat the shit out of him ( I’ve learned since then you can’t f–k someone up over their opinion). I was still going along with the story our government,was giving us about the war. After doing my tour,I found out,I wasn’t as smart as I thought I was. Be your own man. Form your own opinion.

                  That’s why I rag on about freedom of thought and the individuals opinion. The people at that site,don’t seem to value that. They lost me,before they had a chance to make their case. So reading that site,is out for me.

                  As for the second link you gave me,I can’t say. I haven’t looked at it yet.

                  I really want to learn about what happened with this slot in mankinds history. I’m just not gonna listen to side. I’m not gonna have my opinion gift wrapped and handed to me.

                  These idiots at that site,pretty much said,” if you don’t agree with us,you’re racist”. I don’t like being called a racist,just because I question shit.

                  If those idiots want to see racist,I’ve got 2 sites for them. The United Klans of America or an AB site. That’s what hate and racism are all about ( okay the White Knights might try to make you believe they’re a kinder gentler Klan,because they want to recruit blacks and Gays. Yeah right. These are the same people that still worship cold blooded killers like “Dynamite” Bob)

                  Comment by Tim — October 3, 2016 @ 1:45 pm

                • Why does the number keep changing ? Looks like it’s coming from both sides. When I heard the number drop from 6 to 4 million,that came from some hew connected with Auschwitz .

                  Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 4:55 pm

                • “Why does the number keep changing ? Looks like it’s coming from both sides. When I heard the number drop from 6 to 4 million,that came from some hew connected with Auschwitz .”

                  Tim, you are over thinking this.

                  No, the 6 million has nothing to do with Auschwitz.

                  Are you thinking that 6 million died at Auschwitz? What’s tripping you up?

                  Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 5:09 pm

                • No. I know 6 million didn’t die there . If they did,hell they could wipe out damn near the population of the entire continent.

                  I don’t remember the article,but it had to do with some official ( I guess an official of the museum at Auschwitz) that said the number of dead Jews had dropped from 6 to 4 mill. I’m gonna surmise he ( or she) meant the overall figures.

                  No I saw an article one time that said,Auschwitz accounted for every 1 out of 6 deaths. They didn’t elaborate on exactly what kind of deaths,they were talking about. That’s another reason why I sometimes raise an eye. They’ll throw in numbers of the dead,that were also worked to death or starved. I read a story one time about the nazis having to march Jews 30 miles from one train to another. I guess logistics dropped the ball on that or something. Supposedly a shitload of prisoners were falling behind. So,adios to them.

                  I’ve heard people say,”6 million Jews gassed”. Then I’ve heard them say,”6 million Jews murdered”. The first statement,there is a distinction made. The second statement one might say is generic. They were “murdered”.

                  So were “x” number gassed and the balance just “murdered” to give us what ever total they hand us?

                  The shit that irritates me,is the smoke and mirrors. They always gotta throw in,” we found 5,000 suitcases,3,000 pairs of shoes and 5 tons of human hair. It’s almost like they’re trying to use that to make their case,for the number of dead they hand us. At least use it for a big piece of evidence to convince us of the numbers.

                  Yeah I’m obsessed with all these numbers. It’s not like we’re talking about the KIA from one week in any given war. All this other shit gets thrown in on top,and I don’t see how anybody can come up with any answers .

                  That’s why I get pissed when they start with the numbers. It seems like smoke and mirrors.

                  I know you said ignore the numbers. That’s hard to do when the people that gives us the facts,throw in shit like hair and suitcases. It’s hard to get past that,when all all this other shit gets thrown in.

                  I know you said the one side will harp on the numbers,but the other side don’t help much either. I don’t know. Something like that.

                  Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 9:58 pm

        • I DO reject comments that are not appropriate. When I reject a comment, no one knows that it was rejected. It just disappears.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 2, 2016 @ 12:40 pm

          • There are lots of inappropriate comments you do not reject. And they go up automatically, immediately, so you’re not check them ahead of time. Why don’t you consider this one [ Comment by Jeff K. — October 1, 2016 @ 7:45 pm] inappropriate? It has nothing to do with your post or my comment.

            Why don’t you answer the questions I posed here [Comment by Carolyn Yeager — October 1, 2016 @ 6:19 pm]? I think they are more pertinent than most comments in this thread.

            Comment by Carolyn Yeager — October 2, 2016 @ 1:33 pm

            • Why don’t you shut the hell up! Who the hell do you think you are? You roll up in here and act like you pay the bills. You don’t like what you see,get the hell on down the road. You think you’re so damned perfect. You come in like your Joe Stalin. Trying to take over and act like you know what’s best. I think you know what time it is. Take your feeble ass mind,and head on down the road. You don’t know everything. Take your hands. Grasp both of your ears,and pull your head outta your ass. Shit goes fine here without your sorry ass talking shit.

              Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 1:43 pm

            • God you’re dull.
              So, insulting Tim isn’t inappropriate? What, you can dish it out but can’t take it?
              Typical Nazi.

              Comment by Jeff K. — October 2, 2016 @ 1:48 pm

              • I can handle her shit. I had an instructor at jungle warfare at Fort Polk. On a good day this asshole would just berate the hell out of a person. On a bad day,he’d clock your ass. She’s nothing. She comes in here like she owns the place . How long has FG had her site for? Looks like she’s done a good job of it. She insults FG by saying shes a man.

                Carl said she can tell by the FG writes. That’s a sexist comment if I ever heard one.

                She’s the reason some people don’t care to learn. Bitch talks like she hung the moon,and the rest of us,are peons. Truth be known,she’s probably just a sad ass,miserable individual.

                If I miss out on learning anything,it’s because she’s too busy trying to act like a swinging dick.

                I’ve said before,you and Jimbo go at it like junk yard dogs. At the end of the day,the two of you still bring something to the table. I can usually pick up something from one or both of you.

                FG runs everything fine here. If Carl wants to act like a cro magnon troglodyte,then tell her to get the f–k on down the road with her BS.

                Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 2:16 pm

          • Wow ! She didn’t know that? I thought she knew everything. Start rejecting comments where she insults you. This is your house,not hers

            Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 1:45 pm

  3. “I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz, In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis. History is a constantly growing tree – the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn, and I have learned a lot since 1989…Yes, there were gas chambers, Millions of Jews died, there is no question. I don’t know the figures. I’m not an expert on the Holocaust.”

    -David Irving 2006

    Comment by Denying-History — October 1, 2016 @ 11:04 am

    • You wrote a quote from David Irving in 2006. What does this have to do with my website or my blog? David Irving wrote this in order to save his source of income.

      Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2016 @ 11:18 am

      • He admitted he was wrong. It stands as a testament that Cole’s latest writing is correct. “Denial is Dead.”

        Comment by Denying-History — October 1, 2016 @ 11:20 am

        • I am beginning to get a clue, as to what you are complaining about. I wrote this blog post about David Cole:
          https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/whats-worse-than-a-holocaust-denier-a-republican-holocaust-denier-david-cole-has-outed-himself-and-hes-a-republican/

          David Cole denied that the Auschwitz gas chamber was a gas chamber, after he visited Auschwitz many years ago. He had to go into hiding for years because his life was threatened. Now David Cole has come out of hiding.
          David Cole was correct in his original statements that the Auschwitz gas chamber was not a gas chamber. As far as I know, David Cole never went to Dachau.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2016 @ 11:48 am

          • I haven’t complained about anything… The point is simple. David Irving has admitted he was wrong and Cole admits that the Action Reinhardt camps were the sites of mass murder.

            Comment by Denying-History — October 3, 2016 @ 2:47 pm

            • When did David Cole admit that the camps were the sites of mass murder? Was this before or after he went into hiding because he was afraid that he would be killed for what he revealed about the gas chambers? I think that David Cole has now come out of hiding, and he is denying more than ever.

              I blogged about this at

              https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/tag/david-cole-at-auschwitz/
              and I wrote about it on my website at
              http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/History/Articles/Selection2.html

              Comment by furtherglory — October 3, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

              • Cole never denied the AR camps even before he went missing… I would recommend you read his latest article “denial is dead”.

                Comment by Denying-History — October 3, 2016 @ 3:11 pm

                • Here is the text of the article “denial is dead”:

                  Begin quote

                  Holocaust denial is dead, but no one knows it. Worse, it appears as though no one wants to know. Not the media, not Jews, and especially not Jew-haters. But it’s true. Denial has gone the way of the woolly mammoth. It exists these days as a bogeyman, a bugbear, an illusion in the minds of hardcore anti-Semites and harder-core Semites. It’s a scarecrow that Jew-haters erect to frighten Jews and that Jews maintain to frighten themselves.
                  But let’s ease into that point. Better to begin at the cinema, where fantasies come alive…

                  On Friday, September 30th, the world will be treated to the premiere of the new motion picture Denial, which tells the story of how Deborah Lipstadt, the heroically plucky (or pluckily heroic) college professor and Holocaust scholar, prevailed in court after being sued for libel by the villainous, evil Holocaust denier David Irving. Lipstadt is played by Academy Award-winning actress Rachel Weisz, and Irving is portrayed by renowned bridge troll Timothy Spall. The director is Mick Jackson, the Brit responsible for Volcano (you remember that one, don’t you? About the volcano that sprouts up in the middle of L.A. to harass Tommy Lee Jones and Anne Heche. We all saw that one, right?).
                  The film is based on true events. In the mid-1990s, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel in an English court after she labeled him (among other things) a Holocaust denier, a racist and an anti-Semite, and a falsifier of history. Irving eventually lost the case, which had been argued before a judge rather than a jury (by mutual agreement of the plaintiff and defendant). The judge conceded that although Lipstadt had made several false accusations against Irving, the more serious of her claims—that he was a denier, a hater, an associate of haters, and a falsifier—were provable enough to excuse her from the charge of libel.
                  End quote
                  Read More: http://takimag.com/article/denial_is_dead_david_cole/print#axzz4LofgCoZN

                  The movie is wrong and David Irving is right. However, David Irving is losing his memory and he can’t defend himself now. Lipstadt has decided to ruin David Irving’s life and she is succeeding.

                  Comment by furtherglory — October 3, 2016 @ 3:40 pm

                • I agree, David Irving is right. The gas chambers did exists. You fail to recognize that Irving has changed his mind and your treating it as if his past self died.

                  I also don’t think it’s Irving whom is loosing their mind but I will refrain from commenting on who I think is.

                  Trust me when I say the Irvings health is better then you believe it to be… I honestly don’t think he cares ether, as I have yet to see comment from him on the movie… This is also irrelevant to David Coles comments.

                  Comment by Denying-History — October 3, 2016 @ 4:13 pm

      • What does that mean,”save his source of income “?

        Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 4:21 pm

        • You wrote: “What does that mean,”save his source of income “?”

          David Irving’s source of income is the sale of his books and the admission fees to his lectures. If he is shown to be a liar, no one will buy his books.

          Comment by furtherglory — October 2, 2016 @ 4:37 pm

          • So it’s ,”tell them what they want to hear?” Oh well. That seems to be quite present with this whole topic.

            Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 4:52 pm

          • He brought the trial on himself… He was the one who sued Lipstadt. You know how the English legal system works, right?

            Comment by Denying-History — October 3, 2016 @ 5:25 pm

    • You quote Irving as saying; ” Yes, there were gas chambers, Millions of Jews died, there is no question. I don’t know the figures. I’m not an expert on the Holocaust. ”

      That’s fair enough – David Irving is saying that there were gas chambers in Auschwitz. Well, we all agree to that, because there were quite a few fumigation chambers that were used for de-infestation of clothing and blankets etc. But he didn’t actually proclaim in the year 2006 that these “gas chambers” were for homicidal purposes. Only later, has he come out publicly to try and convince people that there were two strange, converted farm cottages outside the Birkenau perimeter fence that were being used for the limited gassing of human beings. But he openly admits ” I’m not an expert on the Holocaust “. Thus – if this be so – then Irving’s claims are of no more, and no less, significance than any other non-expert on this subject.

      Irving goes on to say that ” Millions of Jews died, there is no question. I don’t know the figures.” Surely this a contradiction – if he doesn’t know the figures, how can he be so certain that “millions died “.

      Comment by Talbot — October 1, 2016 @ 12:42 pm

      • Irving is saying there we’re homicidal gas chambers. He also says this for the Action Reinhardt camps as well.

        Comment by Denying-History — October 1, 2016 @ 12:44 pm

  4. One small – but quite humorous – victory Irving did achieve in court, was when Ms Lipstadt’s barristers accused him of being a “racist”, but he turned the tables on them by saying that he had employed a black lady as his research assistant during his work as a historian. Not only was she competent, but was an agreeable and very nice person, who he had invited to his home on several occasions.

    Irving then turned to the benches full of the entire phalanx of Lipstadt’s 40-or-so lawyers and advisors who were in attendance in the court, and said words to the effect “But I see no black or coloured faces amongst the defence team, so who is the racist here?

    Apparently, this did not go down at all well in the proceedings. All the white-pinkish faces amongst Deborah Lipstadt’s vast team of characters immediately changed hue, to display instead, an interesting combination of bright red, crimson and even purple, as they squirmed uncomfortably in their seats. In fact, the good learned Judge himself ( who was white, of course ), was so outraged that he had to intervene to save Debs and her motley crew by ruling Irving’s comment out of order.

    I’m quite certain that this incident will NOT be appearing in the ‘Denial’ movie – but the “trailer” does show a young, attractive black woman who seems to part of Lipstadt’s team. So keep your eyes peeled, folks, as you watch the film, to see how prominent this particular actor’s role is in the movie; and to find out if there are any other leading characters of an ethnic background.

    Comment by Talbot — October 1, 2016 @ 7:30 am

    • You wrote: “Ms Lipstadt’s barristers accused him of being a “racist”,”

      I have attended two lectures given by David Irving. He did not say anything that would indicate that he is racist. I would describe him as “conceited” but not racist.

      Comment by furtherglory — October 1, 2016 @ 8:35 am

      • FG. With the exception of the Klan and the ABs,do you think deniers are unfairly labeled ,”racist”? You can tell an AB is. The minute you mentioned,”Jew “,they’re all over the place.

        I’ve read smart ass comments here,but nothing racist. If anything this site is about questioning history. Nothing racist there .

        Comment by Tim — October 1, 2016 @ 6:41 pm

        • Excuse my ignorance, Tim – but what does “AB” mean?

          Comment by Talbot — October 1, 2016 @ 8:00 pm

          • Don’t worry . FG didn’t know either. AB is “Aryan Brotherhood”. It was an AB that dropped Earl Krugel (Jewish defense league) at the Phoenix FCI ( Federal Correctional Institution ).

            Earl Krugel conspired to blow up a mosque in Culver City. I’m glad he’s dead.

            I heard that,and the first thing I thought of,was “Dynamite Bob Chamblis”. He was a Klansman. He bombed the 13th street baptist church in Birmingham,Alabama. Four little black girls died.

            That’s why I’m glad Earls bitch ass was dropped. If he succeeded in the bombing,how many children might have died?

            Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 8:49 am

            • Thanks Tim. This “Aryan Brotherhood” sounds like a horrendous organisation, where plain and simply humanity has been left far behind.

              Comment by Talbot — October 2, 2016 @ 9:03 am

              • I have as much respect for them,as I do the Klan. When the ol man has his judgement day down here,they’ll be the first ones to go.

                I’m not on their pep squad,but I cheer the AB that dropped Earl Krugel at Phoenix FCI.

                I don’t advocate murder,but in this case,job well done. If Earl Keugel and his boyfriend ( Irv Ruben) succeeded in bombing that mosque,how many children would’ve died?

                Comment by Tim — October 2, 2016 @ 9:18 am

        • Calling anyone who questions the holocaust a racist is simply a way to try and stifle debate on the subject. Look at Jonas E Alexis, he has written many articles exposing the holocaust as a hoax –
          http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/06/astronomer-and-science-historian-nicholas-kollerstrom-challenges-the-holocaust-industry/
          http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/12/occams-razor-destroys-the-holocaust-industry/
          http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/08/02/churchill-lied-about-hitler/

          Comment by Les — October 6, 2016 @ 2:45 am

  5. As smart as he is, i’m surprised he has’nt heard the old adage,”a man who is his own lawyer,has a fool for a client”

    Remember how well it worked for Ted Bundy.

    Comment by Tim — September 30, 2016 @ 4:36 pm

  6. This link below is in two parts…but good explanation of what happened. David Irving had the case won if he just stuck with the issues of the charge but he let them railroad him into other issues that prejudiced the whole case against him. He thought because of his superior knowledge and debatable style he could win the case but it didn’t work. No matter how innocent you are the Jews will work the system against you. I’ve personally had a few cases that I was dead on right but the the powers to be had other ideas. I did win one case that a person came after me on the internet posting as me looking to have sex with men but he got got his ass cooked and had to plead out.. Cost him a good bit of money and he had to go to anger management class. Took three years to settle the case.
    In some other cases I was to easy on the people….they would of hung me if I did to them what they did to me.

    Davids case…
    http://codoh.com/library/document/3442/

    JR

    Comment by Jim Rizoli — September 30, 2016 @ 10:47 am

  7. The great “gas chambers”lie is an establishment lie. The deep state financial power that dominates ALL western societies hides behind the Jewish people. Irving’s mistake was to imagine that an establishment institution would ever overturn this greatest of great lies. That was never going to happen. I’ve read some of the transcripts of evidence in this case. Irving won the argument hands down. No matter. He was never going to get the verdict from a bent Court.

    Comment by physicsandmathsrevision — September 30, 2016 @ 10:41 am

  8. Judge Charles Gray would have had to find another line of work, that’s for sure. If he wasn’t just snuffed, that is.

    Comment by Jett Rucker — September 30, 2016 @ 10:03 am


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